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Meaningless Game - But More BS from the Officials

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2013 9:54 am
Looks like we're in for another bad year of crappy officiating.

So, let's get this straight - Corey Webster is looking back for the ball and makes a play in the endzone to knock away a pass, but that gives the Patriots a first down and four more additional points.

But the Patriots CB, who isn't looking back for the ball, is allowed to run through the receiver, and what should have been a big pass interference penalty to set up the game-winning FB isn't called?

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What's even more maddening  
PEEJ : 8/30/2013 10:16 am : link
on the Webster call is that the official who threw the flag couldn't have seen any infraction from his angle without x-ray vision. He threw the flag because he "thought" he saw something not because he actually DID see something.
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/30/2013 10:19 am : link
at some point, replay has morphed from indisputable evidence to whatever the opinion is of the official looking at the replay. That's why the first few years of replay less than 10% of calls were overturned where last year almost 20% were overturned.

It has become one of the detriments of replay that nobody seems to want to address.
I mean, wasn't that the difference between the two statements used?  
Greg from LI : 8/30/2013 10:21 am : link
If the replay clearly shows that the original call was correct, they would say "The ruling on the field is confirmed..." and if it's unclear and not enough to overturn, they'd say "The ruling on the field stands...."
Thanks Eric...couldn't believe also the overturn of  
Blue21 : 8/30/2013 10:28 am : link
the interception.
Since complaining on this board does nothing at all  
mrvax : 8/30/2013 10:29 am : link
to fix the issue, we can only hope that the Giants have someone in their front office calling the NFL today and forcing them to review these terrible calls.

A game should not be decided by a host of bad officiating calls where you just hope they even out. It's freegin' crazy. A $9 billion dollar a year league and we get this shit??? WTH?
It's preseason  
Josh in the City : 8/30/2013 10:30 am : link
for the officials too. Everyone relax.
And Blue21  
Josh in the City : 8/30/2013 10:31 am : link
the overturn of the interception was the right call.
Prince's non-interception  
FJ : 8/30/2013 10:32 am : link
2 things.

First off, I think since it's preseason, ecah team has their own broadcast, so the replay officials would be looking at the views from the Patriots broadcast rather than the Giants broadcast. maybe it showed something different.

From what we saw, I thought it was clear that the left hand came down before the right knee. Then the question is whether the hand came down in bounds or not. The hand did end up touching the line, but I think the whole hand touched inbounds first, then slid out of bounds. I don't think, based on the replays we saw, that the call should have been overturned.
no, it wasn't  
Greg from LI : 8/30/2013 10:32 am : link
You're going to tell me that it was clear and incontrovertible that Prince's hand was out of bounds? Seriously?
Josh in the City : 8/30/2013 10:33 am : link
yes, I am. 100% so/
In fact  
Josh in the City : 8/30/2013 10:34 am : link
I don't even think it was close. It was clear his fingers were in the white. Maybe you need to get a new HDTV b/c it was pretty obvious on mine.
Is there still a time limit on reviews?  
SwirlingEddie : 8/30/2013 10:34 am : link
It seems the referee takes forever now, the Prince interception being a good example. Broadcasts go to commercial and come back and they're still reviewing the play!?
I was at the game  
Rjanyg : 8/30/2013 10:36 am : link
PI on C WEb was BS. The overturn of Princes INT was BS. There was also non call of offensive pass interference vs TT. The guys pushes off of TT's hands and separates. Only preseason but having to drive over 4 hours to see that crap and deal with 77,000 Massholes was frustrating.
I was at the game  
Rjanyg : 8/30/2013 10:36 am : link
PI on C WEb was BS. The overturn of Princes INT was BS. There was also non call of offensive pass interference vs TT. The guys pushes off of TT's hands and separates. Only preseason but having to drive over 4 hours to see that crap and deal with 77,000 Massholes was frustrating.
Totally agree  
Jan in DC : 8/30/2013 10:38 am : link
and I was thinking that on those two calls. The Webster one especially. I did not think that was pass interference at all. He made a play on the ball and if he got there early, it was really really close. The overturning of the interception was baffling. And I'm glad Mayock didn't softball that one. He was very adamant about it being the wrong call.
I must..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/30/2013 10:38 am : link
have a fucked up TV then.

Greg - you think we can get returns on our pieces of shit?

Replay needs to have INDISPUTABLE evidence. The fact we are even arguing about that makes it unlikely it was indisputable.
The officials,  
oldog : 8/30/2013 10:41 am : link
gave a meaningless pre-season game to the home crowd.
The Amukamara interception reminds me of that touchdown  
Curtis in VA : 8/30/2013 10:42 am : link
catch by Dez Bryant that was called back and essentially gave us the win.

As a fan, I wanted Amukamara to keep that INT but looking at the replay I disagreed with Mike Mayock. It looked to me like Amukamara's fingers were touching the white line.
I won my TV in a raffle  
Greg from LI : 8/30/2013 10:44 am : link
So at least I didn't pay for my piece of shit :)

Josh clearly sees things better than you, I, anyone else here and Mayock.

Jan - I thought the flag was because the ref THOUGHT Webster grabbed the receiver from behind with his right hand, but since he didn't actually see it he didn't know that Webster actually wasn't grabbing the receiver at all. Hence, the comment made earlier about the ref making a call on what he thought was happening rather than what he actually could see.
As a Giants fan  
Josh in the City : 8/30/2013 10:44 am : link
I even thing that was indisputable. I actually thought it was close live and was surprised they weren't reviewing immediately. Not sure how you can say he hand didn't touch the white but ok.
It did seem lopsided  
WideRight : 8/30/2013 10:50 am : link
but more telling was the way they elected to review calls. They pulled everyone back from the 20 to look at Princes close call. So they were willing to review a call for the Giants that they initially didn't question...

But on Carr's fumble they didn't. Patriots ball, no looking back.
It's been really weird.  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/30/2013 10:50 am : link
I thought two of the three calls against Kyle Wilson in the Jets game were horseshit, too.
FJ, the hand touching the ground doesn't mean anything.  
Rob_MTL : 8/30/2013 10:50 am : link

Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared.
An official shall declare the ball dead and the dow
n ended:
(a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player a
nd touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the in
stant the runner touches the ground. A runner
touching the ground with his hands or feet while in
the grasp of an opponent may continue to
advance; o
official rules - ( New Window )
the finger hit in bounds  
Dave in MD : 8/30/2013 10:51 am : link
and then slid out of bounds. Kind of like the drag of a foot. It was a bad overturn.
Did NFLN have different camera coverage than  
SwirlingEddie : 8/30/2013 10:52 am : link
the local affiliate? I didn't see any replay of the interception on the local broadcast that showed Prince's hand close up that would have cleared it up. All the replays I saw were at a distance that made it appear to me to be very close and certainly debateable either way - not indisputable visual evidence by any stretch.
Doomster : 8/30/2013 10:56 am : link
let's look at it this way...the law of averages....the calls that go against us now, reverse in the future....

The Prince PI...that was slow mo, you can see him make contact to the back before the ball gets there....

The overturn of the Prince INT, since it was called an int on the field, there has to be indisputable evidence to overturn....when his hand initially hit, it looked in bounds, and then slid out of bounds....the question was, did his other leg come down after his hand went out of bounds or did it come down before his hand went out of bounds....I did not see any indisputable evidence to overturn this....

As for Webster, in slow mo you could make the call he pulled on the right shoulder with his right hand and regular speed it would be hard to determine, especially from the ref's angle....

They were bang bang plays that could have gone either way...

Since it doesn't count towards the regular season, it's much ado about nothing...
He only had 1 foot in bounds (he didnt establish possession)  
Rob_MTL : 8/30/2013 11:10 am : link
The moment the finger touched out of bounds the play is dead.

One knee..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/30/2013 11:12 am : link
equals two feet.
FJ : 8/30/2013 11:13 am : link
You are citing a rule out of context.

In the field of play, a player can touch the ground with his hand and not be considered tackled, as long as his knee or some other part of his body hasn't touched down.

That's not what we are talking about here. For a pass to be considered complete, the receive must get two feet down. In this case, a hand is equivalent to a foot. If a player gets one foot and one hand in bounds, the pass is complete (or intercepted in this scenario). Also, once the hand goes out of bounds, the play ends. I still think the hand came down in bounds, then slid out of bounds.
FatMan in Charlotte :  
Rob_MTL : 8/30/2013 11:16 am : link
thats corrects
The Prince play - There was definitely some green showing when his  
fredgbrown : 8/30/2013 11:18 am : link
hand first hits the ground from one angle. It was too close to
Thanks Eric  
old man : 8/30/2013 11:19 am : link
On those was/not was PI calls, I thought I was the only one 'questioning'(i.e., a few undeleted expletives).
Rob_MTL : 8/30/2013 11:19 am : link
A hand is equal to a foot?

since when?
Josh in the City : 8/30/2013 11:20 am : link
ding ding ding!

Yea his fingers hit in bounds before sliding out but the ball was still moving in his hands. He didn't have true possession until his fingers were already on the white and before his knee touched down.
like I said in the GDT  
lalalalala : 8/30/2013 11:21 am : link

the game was a "pick 'em". jump to your own conclusions. there was also an awful blown neutral zone infraction call that ended up being an offsides.
false start, even.  
lalalalala : 8/30/2013 11:21 am : link
Rob_MTL - I think you interpreting the rules incorrectly.  
fredgbrown : 8/30/2013 11:30 am : link
Prince's interception  
RIP : 8/30/2013 11:37 am : link
Yea, it was not an interception. What I don't understand is how the play is changed after the the next play was already run.
RIP - No play was run after the INT. They just moved the ball to the  
fredgbrown : 8/30/2013 11:45 am : link
20 for the touchback.
personally i thought his forearm  
The 12th Man : 8/30/2013 11:49 am : link
hit the turf 1st before his fingers touched out of bounds. The fact there was np PI at the end of that game was pathetic.
FJ : 8/30/2013 12:48 pm : link
Rob_MTL : 11:19 am
A hand is equal to a foot?

since when?

Are you serious? In the context of catching a pass before going out of bounds, yes, one foot and one hand touching in bounds is sufficient.

Even in the rule you cited, it talks about any part of the body other than the hand or foot.
Knee, shin, forearm, and elbow  
eclipz928 : 8/30/2013 12:52 pm : link
are all equivalent to 2 feet. Actually, I think you're considered down if any part of your body other than feet or hands touch the ground. I thought his forearm came down in bounds before his fingers touched out of bounds - but not really a good camera angle to confirm.
T2 getting beat for TD  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 8/30/2013 12:54 pm : link
...he had help ...he was off balance and the WR put his hands on him ...efectivly taking him out of the play... should have been Offense PI IMO
A hand is equal to a foot in the context of touching out of bounds  
eclipz928 : 8/30/2013 1:00 pm : link
However, I don't think there's ever been a scenario or a physical possibility for just a single hand to come down inbounds during a catch without either two feet or another part of the body also touching down inbounds.

....I can't even imagine what that would look like.
Agree the officiating was bad  
Mike from Ohio : 8/30/2013 1:10 pm : link
but some of you are complaining about good calls. Carr clearly lost the ball before his hand moved forward, and there was no PI on the long TD TT gave up. He slipped on his own.

The Webster call was ticky-tack but that's today's NFL. If you run through the receiver it's called and he did get there slightly before the ball did. Given that, there was clearly PI on the Giant's last drive that was blatant and should have been called.

Prince may or may not have been in bounds, but in that case the call made on the field needs to stand. The fact that there is so much disagreement (including from the national broadcast team) indicates it was not indisputable which is the standard.
where is video  
giantfanboy : 8/30/2013 1:19 pm : link
anyone find the video of Princes INT online?
Not reading this whole  
Fish : 8/30/2013 1:54 pm : link
Thread but agree we are in for it. Officials are not calling in our favor at all
Didn't read the whole thread  
Nick from Goa : 8/30/2013 2:01 pm : link
but did anyone notice the Pats ran the "pick" play over and over and didn't get called for it once.
They did get called for it once...  
Jan in DC : 8/30/2013 2:03 pm : link
There was an offensive PI.
I suspect Belichick spends a good part of the pre-season  
SwirlingEddie : 8/30/2013 2:12 pm : link
testing the officiating to see how much he can get away with. He's always looking for an edge.
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