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Would you swap Eli for Luck right now?

Spark Em Up 22 : 9/5/2013 11:43 am
Factoring in age and contract/salary going forward

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You also can't bring Cap numbers up  
JOrthman : 9/5/2013 8:35 pm : link
If Luck is going to be as good as some of you are alluding, is cap number is not going to stay where it is now.
MoM  
PaulBlakeTSU : 9/5/2013 8:35 pm : link
a lot of that I think was on Dungy for constantly resting his players in the final week or weeks of the season so that the Colts effectively had three weeks off before a playoff game. That has to throw off a team's rhythm.
I don't make the deal..  
Sean in PA : 9/5/2013 9:52 pm : link
I agree a lot with what Terps said. Fucking 2 Super Bowls in some of the most dramatic/clutch fashion and people on this thread would get rid of him in the blink of an eye. Eli is in his prime and probably has a good 5-6 years left and has already taken this franchise to the promise land TWICE.
Lucks cap would stay  
UConn4523 : 9/5/2013 9:58 pm : link
for atleast the next 2 years, so yes, it would. You'd then extend him at top dollar but you'd be able to have a ton of extra cap to sign/extend players before that.

I'd 100% do it if the cap came with each player. So would the Steelers, so would the Ravens, IMO.
Uconn  
JOrthman : 9/5/2013 10:12 pm : link
Right only two years and the rest of your post is all hypotheticals. This is a trade forever, not for two years.
that Luck  
PaulBlakeTSU : 9/5/2013 10:16 pm : link
is super cheap for the next two years is just icing on the cake for me.
Jorthman  
UConn4523 : 9/5/2013 11:45 pm : link
again, I'm talking about 2 years of a ton of cap room then 10+ years of big money which we'd be paying a top tier QB anyway. Luck has had a lightening fast learning curve on a bad team and has shown me he's a winner. His isnt bashing Eli, this is wanting to lock in the most important position for another decade+. There was a time Eli looked like he had no chance at a SB, so that fact that Luck hasn't had much experience or success in the NFL is irrelevant.

I think you'd be a gigantic homer to not even see the appeal of what that would do for this franchise plus the bonus of front loading JPP and whoever else to lock in as well with the 2 low wage years.
I don't think its a crazy idea to go with luck  
JOrthman : 9/5/2013 11:47 pm : link
I just disagree.
I'd go so far as to say that the only team  
UConn4523 : 9/6/2013 12:09 am : link
that wouldn't do that trade effective right now moving forward with contracts swapping would be he Packers. You be crazy not to want 3 years at that low of a salary and still lock in a stud QB for a decade+ anytime during that span.
6 pages and no mention of Nassib  
nyynyg : 9/6/2013 7:59 am : link
We just spent two picks including a 4th to get Nassib. what the heck? He'll never see the field behind Luck.

J/K

This is actually a pretty solid BBI debate. I don't know where I would come out, but you have to factor out the past in some way to make it. It doesn't bear on future results. But I've seen Luck play, he is the real deal and Luck strikes me as the personality that would thrive in Blue here as well, a good fit. As a GM, I think you have to make that trade, it takes nothing away from what Eli has accomplished. It is simply a calculated decision.
Really not much of a debate...  
WideRight : 9/6/2013 9:58 am : link
Giants manage for the present and the future, with constant attention to the cap.

Its a very sound move...
for all intents and purposes  
PaulBlakeTSU : 9/6/2013 11:30 am : link
let's assume the Giants make the trade.

With the extra $14 million in cap space over the next three years, what would you do with the money? Also assume that every NFL player is a free agent right now.
Of course  
jeff57 : 9/6/2013 11:36 am : link
Because of the age difference alone.

It's a no-brainer.
I'm still trying to figure out this exercise in futility.  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 11:47 am : link
Is it a patience issue? Are some of you so concerned with tomorrow that you can't stop and smell the roses today?

20 years from now we will be looking back on this time remembering how good we had it. Why worry about tomorrow, when it's only half way through today?
To reiterate, I guess I just don't get the point.  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 11:49 am : link
.
You're reading way too much into it Britt  
David in LA : 9/6/2013 11:50 am : link
this is like saying a Laker fan wouldn't swap Kobe right now for a shot at Andrew Wiggins.
I guess it just strikes me as odd....  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 11:55 am : link
that a. people would be thinking about this while we have a franchise QB in his prime, and b. that people would put this much energy into a debate of something that is fundamentally impossible.
ehh, it's just a fun hypothetical  
David in LA : 9/6/2013 12:11 pm : link
.
The argument boils down to several things  
BlueLou : 9/6/2013 1:11 pm : link
that are interesting to dispute: proven winner
of championships vs incredible young talent, now vs future returns, etc. etc.


The people getting heated seem to be more the ones who interpret a "yes, Id' do it" as some type of disrespect to what Eli has accomplished...

Maybe it is a type of disrespect, or a "what have you done for me lately" but I think it's mostly a reasonable strong belief in the future of Andrew Luck who, as s rookie in the NFL, looked a hell of a lot better than Eli Manning did.
I don't view is as disrespect...  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 1:16 pm : link
as much as I view it as shortsighted to not want to see the rest of this amazing ride we've been on play out, understand?

To me, it's not about what Eli's done, it's about what he can still do.

I think he's earned the right to finish writing his story with us, and I'm eager to watch it unfold. We have a shot at having one of the all time greats here if he wins another one.
It's kind of like that show Who Wants To Be a Millionaire....  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 1:18 pm : link
do you take the money and walk or do you keep playing at a chance of the ultimate goal?
And Eli's a lot closer to getting three Superbowl wins...  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 1:20 pm : link
than Andrew Luck is to getting three, that is indisputable.

Eli's already in rare air with a good amount of time on the clock.
This is very well stated Britt:  
BlueLou : 9/6/2013 1:20 pm : link
Quote:
I view it as shortsighted to not want to see the rest of this amazing ride we've been on play out, understand?

To me, it's not about what Eli's done, it's about what he can still do.

I think he's earned the right to finish writing his story with us, and I'm eager to watch it unfold. We have a shot at having one of the all time greats here if he wins another one.


Very well stated indeed.
And since "odds" seem to be the buzzword on this thread....  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 1:23 pm : link
where do you think the smart money goes if the bet is "who is more likely to win three Superbowls, Eli or Luck?"

Eli is knocking on the door of all time greatness, it would be an absolute travesty to not let that play out when we're already playing with house money.
Don't push it...  
BlueLou : 9/6/2013 1:29 pm : link
I mean, what if you asked that same question after each's rookie season? What would have been your answer in that scenario?
But we're not....  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 1:32 pm : link
The question is being asked of the two right now... Which is also odd because you're comparing a one season career to a ten season, two time SB MVP career, which makes this thread even harder to comprehend in regards to wanting to do the trade.

Although, to your question, we did do a lot of "would you trade Eli for Ben/Rivers" talk. Good thing we let that play out, eh?
It's a typical sports conversation among fans.  
kmed : 9/6/2013 1:33 pm : link
Most are sorta pointless and dumb, but it's what we do. I can give you 15000 examples.

In regards to your last point about odds, I think you are sort of missing the point. The odds shouldn't be who wins 3 first, it's who is going to win more for the rest of their respective careers. The first 2 wins are over, we already got those.
And I think you're missing my point...  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 1:35 pm : link
it's not often that you have an opportunity to become a three time or four time winner, placing you among the all time great legends of the game regardless of team.

Andrew Luck winning one, which is hard, will put him among some distinguished company. Eli winning one from here on out puts him right next to Tom Brady and Joe Cool. That's a different time zone.
WTF happened to Rivers, BTW?  
BlueLou : 9/6/2013 1:36 pm : link
He always looked goofy with that side-arm of his, but he used to get the job done... Did he fall off a cliff last year or what?
RE: Rivers...  
kmed : 9/6/2013 1:39 pm : link
I think it's a combination of things.

1. Management.
2. His biggest weapon(s) leaving and or getting hurt.
3. The NFL is catching up to his noodle arm.
Andrew Luck also doesn't have the luxury  
David in LA : 9/6/2013 1:43 pm : link
of having the WR's and RB"s we do as a collective group.
I don't get the relevance of that last post, David...  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 1:46 pm : link
unless it was in response to somebody else.
Indy's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/6/2013 1:48 pm : link
WR's have been woefully underrated for the better part of the 2000's and beyond. The common theory was that Manning made his WR's look better than they were. Yet, Reggie Wayne had another good year under Luck. TY Hilton is no sloutch either.

I wouldn't say Indy has beter WR's than us, but it isn't like it is a slam dunk ours are tremendously better, especially when it comes to depth.
yes.  
Dnew : 9/6/2013 1:49 pm : link
Love Eli and what he's accomplished...but man Andrew Luck is going to be really good for a really long time!
What relevance does it have to have?  
David in LA : 9/6/2013 1:52 pm : link
it's a fact, no? All this talk about how close Eli is to accomplishing another Super Bowl doesn't mean Luck is miles away. Early returns so far are great considering Luck shattered rookie passing marks with very little help outside of Wayne. I think we'll probably see some regression this year for the Colts, but I still would think about rolling the dice if that means keeping your window open for another decade.
Gotcha, so we can't quite say Luck makes his receivers look better  
David in LA : 9/6/2013 1:53 pm : link
but several posters here will be the first to point out that Eli makes his WR's that much better. It goes both ways.
Well, if it was in response to my posts...  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 1:54 pm : link
I'm not sure what relevance a back up cast has to do with one's legacy.

Is Joe Montana thought of any less because he had Jerry Rice? Or Aikman because he had Irvin?
But Wayne...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/6/2013 1:56 pm : link
had over 100 receptions and Hilton had 7 TD's! Donnie Avery had 60 receptions.

The Giants leading receiver had 83 catches and nobody else broke 60.

Yet we have the better receivers for certain?
We also threw the ball far less  
David in LA : 9/6/2013 1:59 pm : link
I'm not even going to mention that Nicks was at less than full health all season. All bullshit aside, would you honestly trade our skill position guys for theirs? I don't disagree that their guys may be underrated as well.
Not sure how..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/6/2013 1:59 pm : link
true this is at all:

Quote:
Gotcha, so we can't quite say Luck makes his receivers look better
David in LA : 1:53 pm
but several posters here will be the first to point out that Eli makes his WR's that much better. It goes both ways.


A lot of people here think Cruz and Nicks are studs. How much moaning happened when we lost Manningham and the guy did bupkiss with SF? How many people think Randle is the next breakout star here?

I half think our WR's get overrated here moreso than the opposite.

When you think of all-time great WR's, how often does Harrison or Wayne come into the conversation? If you have people around you like I do, it doesn't happen all that often, and if they do come up, somebody talks about Peyton making them great. I don't buy that.
I never said..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/6/2013 2:00 pm : link
I'd trade our guys for theirs. But I'm also not the one saying taht the Colts have little talent at the position, which is exactly what you inferred earlier.
Our WR's  
JOrthman : 9/6/2013 2:05 pm : link
Since the days I first came to this board in 1999, every year we have the best WR's. Yet, until Cruz in 2011, no one put up any numbers to back that up. We have some good WR's, but consistantly we over rate our talent.
What does Randle being the next breakout star have to do with  
David in LA : 9/6/2013 2:06 pm : link
this? If he is indeed the next breakout WR, it is because Reuben is working his ass off to get on the same page as Eli. The credit doesn't seem to get dispersed enough around here (not saying you are doing that, just thought about a few posts I've seen over the past few years).
I'm using that...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/6/2013 2:15 pm : link
as an example of how we overrate our talent consistently on BBI. It goes beyond the WR's, but it is pertinent to this discussion when it is said that the view is Eli makes our guys better. I really don't see that said very often.

I mean this is off tangent, but you have UDFA's gushed about each year here as if each is going to end up being Cruz, and it isn't just reserved for the WR's. How many people took highlights of Herman pushing around the equivalent of a HS frosh team and extrapolated that into thinking he would be a Day 1 starter and a white Anthony Munoz?
No we're arguing about the WRs each team has and which QB  
BlueLou : 9/6/2013 2:15 pm : link
"elevates" his WRs' production? All I'd say on that note is it's tough not to want to see Eli go the next 5 years with the trio of Nicks, Cruz, and Randle all intact... along with Robinson and Wilson playing up to their full physical potential.

Not that there's any guarantee it will shake out that way.
No  
BlueLou : 9/6/2013 2:17 pm : link
= now.
Wayne is awesome  
kmed : 9/6/2013 2:17 pm : link
and Randal was a 2nd pick that was highly touted out of college. I think he's rated right where he should be.
Nope. Not a chance  
kickerpa16 : 9/6/2013 2:20 pm : link
I'd do it.
I'd be interested if anyone else would change their opinion  
BrettNYG10 : 9/6/2013 2:25 pm : link
If the question were, 'Who would you start a franchise with?'.
If I were starting a franchise from scratch right now...  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2013 2:45 pm : link
I'd take Luck hands down.
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