Would you swap Eli for Luck right now?

If I could, the career wouldn't be incredible.

I'm not knocking Peyton for the MVPs...I'm just saying I get nothing out of them as a fan. I wouldn't be looking back 20 years from now reminiscing on a guy winning MVP. I'd rather have what Flacco did last year.

But if you ask me who had the more impressive performance on the season as a whole, give me about 6-7 Peyton years over what Flacco just did. Flacco was great in playoffs. Not much earlier than that the team fired the offensive coordinator because of an under performing offense that Flacco led. Guys can get hot, he did last year and he has company. Sustain that over the span of 4 months and thats telling me something, its also a lot more rare when you are talking about guys who have done it as often as Peyton has

QB is the most important position. Even if Eli turns out to be slightly better, the chances of landing a slightly worse QB immediately after Eli retires are pretty slim.

I'll take 15 years of slightly worse than Eli over 7 more years of Eli.

And that's assuming Luck doesn't surpass Eli, which is a big assumption.

...imo he's the best QB to come into the league in a while. I love Eli but I'd have to make the move based on age and expected performance over the next decade.

... if each guy keeps his current receiving corps? And if he has the other team's receiving corps? Under both scenarios, who do you think would have the better results? That's one way of equaling the playing field for this question.

You don't trade the the only quarterback in history to lead a last-minute, SB-winning touchdown drive...twice. Yes, it looks like the Colts have managed to get back to back MVP caliber QBs. If he progresses, and there is no reason to think he won't, Luck will be that level of player. But we still don't know what he looks like in the truly huge moments. I just ain't gonna trade the most unflappable QB in the history of the game who has hand delivered not one but two of the most improbable Super Bowl wins in the history of football.

I'll ride with Eli until he's ready to hang 'em up.

no.

the Super Bowl may be the most important game of the season, every playoff game has a similar pressure because it's win or go home.

And the games in the regular season that are "must-win" games carry plenty of pressure as well because it carries the weight of the season being over.

Performance in all "must-win" games reflect on a person's flappability, clutch-ness or ability to handle pressure.

and put in Peyton Manning on those 2 Giants Super Bowl teams... Tom Brady wins BOTH times..

Think about that

Bledsoe(had a nice career, 1 Sb appearance) and Rick Mirer come to mind..People were quite enamored with both..There are others..No guarantees...

being debated. Luck hasn't proven squat yet. Eli has 6-7 years left. Only a moron would make an argument for Luck after 1 season.

But football/life is about more than practicality. If I were actually given the opportunity to make this maneuver, I'd turn it down 100 times out of 100. It's just the wrong thing to do, even though from a football standpoint, it is definitely the right thing to do.

We went down the stats of how few repeat, win three, win four etc... How many NFL QB's play QB over the last 50 years and how many won a SB?

think about what? A random claim that you just made up?

THe Patriots scored 14 points and 17 points in the two Super Bowls. Why is it such a given that Peyton couldn't have outscored either of those?

G2: Your comment that anyone who would trade Eli for Luck is a moron shows your inability to be objective. I would bet that more smart football front-office decision-makers would pick the rest of Luck's career over the rest of Eli's career.

And for the next few years, Eli averages a $20 million cap hit per year, whereas Luck's is around $6 million. Essentially, in this hypothetical, If the Giants could find an extra $2 million, they could have Luck and Revis over the next three years for what they pay Eli.

Joe Thomas has an $11 million cap hit over the next three years. I'd sure love to have him plus another $3 million for other players.

Not only are you getting Luck who is 8.5 years younger, but the salary difference is massive over the next three seasons.

that the Giants wouldn't have won two SBs with Peyton is not something that can be said with such certainty. I'm not going to discount that opinion because who truly ever knows how things unfold in that alternate universe, which would also have other dominos fall differently than we currently know them.

But here is some things i do know. It's highly unlikely that the team misses the postseason in 3 of the last 4 years with a guy like Peyton every week under center. I feel pretty damn confident in stating that. Not that Eli is at fault for this or anything, but Peyton Manning can carry a team with more warts than these recent Giant teams in his sleep. We'd have more cracks in the tourney. And if the Giants defense held opposing offenses to 20 or fewer in 80+% of his playoff games here, and never more than 23 points in 11 games as they have for Eli, Peyton's playoff record might be a bit different than it is in Indy

actually have very similar post-season stats. Their QBRs are nearly identical. If you prorate for a 16 game season, Peyton has way more yards and interceptions and a few more TDs. Peyton's teams average 23 points per game, while Eli's average 20.

Peyton definitely regresses from his regular season form in the playoffs. Eli is slightly better than his regular season form, mainly by throwing fewer picks (11.6 prorated).

earlier in July. He takes into account age, salary, performance, everything.

Eli was ranked 13th overall but 10th among QBs
Luck was ranked 3rd overall and 3rd among QBs

Eli is a very good player but his contract and age bring his value down compared to Luck/RG3/Wilson/Kaepernick/Cam and young QBs like that. I would take Eli over all 5 of those guys for the next 3 years in terms of on field performance. But those guys are cheaper for the next 3 years than Eli and figure to last a lot longer than Eli.

This thread should be pinned for awhile. There are a lot of voices, a lot of opinions, and a lot of good points going back and forth.... and from a lot of strong willed people.

However, you dont see any confrontations, insulting, bad temper, or ill willed towards one another. Somewhere, Eric is shedding a tear.

To answer the question and reading everything through and through, I would have to say a reluctant no. Luck is going to be awesome and will be the best of the last years draft class. IMO, Eli will gives us a better chance to win more SBs in the next 6-7 years than I believe Luck will in the next 12-15 years. I have no proof of this, and I cant support it.

But this is just my opinion, and I wouldnt trade Eli for any single player in the league.

Although you do see decline. His playoff narrative is such dogshit though in every sense of the word and that hurts the perception. Perhaps a lot of it is just losing bias, but there is so much to point to. It took him until year 6 to win a playoff game, everyone was giving Matt Ryan shit until he finally won one, and he won his sooner than Peyton. All the ones and dones (I think 8, maybe 7), more than anyone in history, mostly after a bye week and at home. Think of what happened to the 2008 Giants or 2007 Cowboys happening like 6 times in the same era, that is basically what has happened to Peyton. Also not very good at all in the season he did win his SB

If Luck is going to be as good as some of you are alluding, is cap number is not going to stay where it is now.

a lot of that I think was on Dungy for constantly resting his players in the final week or weeks of the season so that the Colts effectively had three weeks off before a playoff game. That has to throw off a team's rhythm.

I agree a lot with what Terps said. Fucking 2 Super Bowls in some of the most dramatic/clutch fashion and people on this thread would get rid of him in the blink of an eye. Eli is in his prime and probably has a good 5-6 years left and has already taken this franchise to the promise land TWICE.

for atleast the next 2 years, so yes, it would. You'd then extend him at top dollar but you'd be able to have a ton of extra cap to sign/extend players before that.

I'd 100% do it if the cap came with each player. So would the Steelers, so would the Ravens, IMO.

Right only two years and the rest of your post is all hypotheticals. This is a trade forever, not for two years.

is super cheap for the next two years is just icing on the cake for me.

again, I'm talking about 2 years of a ton of cap room then 10+ years of big money which we'd be paying a top tier QB anyway. Luck has had a lightening fast learning curve on a bad team and has shown me he's a winner. His isnt bashing Eli, this is wanting to lock in the most important position for another decade+. There was a time Eli looked like he had no chance at a SB, so that fact that Luck hasn't had much experience or success in the NFL is irrelevant.

I think you'd be a gigantic homer to not even see the appeal of what that would do for this franchise plus the bonus of front loading JPP and whoever else to lock in as well with the 2 low wage years.

I just disagree.

that wouldn't do that trade effective right now moving forward with contracts swapping would be he Packers. You be crazy not to want 3 years at that low of a salary and still lock in a stud QB for a decade+ anytime during that span.

We just spent two picks including a 4th to get Nassib. what the heck? He'll never see the field behind Luck.

J/K

This is actually a pretty solid BBI debate. I don't know where I would come out, but you have to factor out the past in some way to make it. It doesn't bear on future results. But I've seen Luck play, he is the real deal and Luck strikes me as the personality that would thrive in Blue here as well, a good fit. As a GM, I think you have to make that trade, it takes nothing away from what Eli has accomplished. It is simply a calculated decision.

Giants manage for the present and the future, with constant attention to the cap.

Its a very sound move...

let's assume the Giants make the trade.

With the extra $14 million in cap space over the next three years, what would you do with the money? Also assume that every NFL player is a free agent right now.

Because of the age difference alone.

It's a no-brainer.

Is it a patience issue? Are some of you so concerned with tomorrow that you can't stop and smell the roses today?

20 years from now we will be looking back on this time remembering how good we had it. Why worry about tomorrow, when it's only half way through today?

.

this is like saying a Laker fan wouldn't swap Kobe right now for a shot at Andrew Wiggins.

that a. people would be thinking about this while we have a franchise QB in his prime, and b. that people would put this much energy into a debate of something that is fundamentally impossible.

.

that are interesting to dispute: proven winner
of championships vs incredible young talent, now vs future returns, etc. etc.


The people getting heated seem to be more the ones who interpret a "yes, Id' do it" as some type of disrespect to what Eli has accomplished...

Maybe it is a type of disrespect, or a "what have you done for me lately" but I think it's mostly a reasonable strong belief in the future of Andrew Luck who, as s rookie in the NFL, looked a hell of a lot better than Eli Manning did.

as much as I view it as shortsighted to not want to see the rest of this amazing ride we've been on play out, understand?

To me, it's not about what Eli's done, it's about what he can still do.

I think he's earned the right to finish writing his story with us, and I'm eager to watch it unfold. We have a shot at having one of the all time greats here if he wins another one.

do you take the money and walk or do you keep playing at a chance of the ultimate goal?

than Andrew Luck is to getting three, that is indisputable.

Eli's already in rare air with a good amount of time on the clock.

Quote:

I view it as shortsighted to not want to see the rest of this amazing ride we've been on play out, understand? To me, it's not about what Eli's done, it's about what he can still do. I think he's earned the right to finish writing his story with us, and I'm eager to watch it unfold. We have a shot at having one of the all time greats here if he wins another one.

Very well stated indeed.

where do you think the smart money goes if the bet is "who is more likely to win three Superbowls, Eli or Luck?"

Eli is knocking on the door of all time greatness, it would be an absolute travesty to not let that play out when we're already playing with house money.

I mean, what if you asked that same question after each's rookie season? What would have been your answer in that scenario?

The question is being asked of the two right now... Which is also odd because you're comparing a one season career to a ten season, two time SB MVP career, which makes this thread even harder to comprehend in regards to wanting to do the trade.

Although, to your question, we did do a lot of "would you trade Eli for Ben/Rivers" talk. Good thing we let that play out, eh?

Most are sorta pointless and dumb, but it's what we do. I can give you 15000 examples.

In regards to your last point about odds, I think you are sort of missing the point. The odds shouldn't be who wins 3 first, it's who is going to win more for the rest of their respective careers. The first 2 wins are over, we already got those.

it's not often that you have an opportunity to become a three time or four time winner, placing you among the all time great legends of the game regardless of team.

Andrew Luck winning one, which is hard, will put him among some distinguished company. Eli winning one from here on out puts him right next to Tom Brady and Joe Cool. That's a different time zone.

He always looked goofy with that side-arm of his, but he used to get the job done... Did he fall off a cliff last year or what?

I think it's a combination of things.

1. Management.
2. His biggest weapon(s) leaving and or getting hurt.
3. The NFL is catching up to his noodle arm.

of having the WR's and RB"s we do as a collective group.