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In the Minority, I'd Stick with Wilson and Scott

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2013 11:27 am
Wilson had a terrible game, but we've all seen what this kid can do. He's very young and he will turn it around.

Scott also made a bad mistake in a critical point of the game...that happens with inexperienced players. But he seems to be improving too.

Both players know the system. Both players have been with the Giants all through camp.

I'd stick with them.
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Dickerson and Bradshaw  
bc4life : 9/9/2013 11:46 am : link
fumbled a lot for the same reason - fighting to stay up and get that extra yard or two.
It's easy to say "Wilson will get better."  
Exit 172 : 9/9/2013 11:46 am : link
But when Eli goes down and stays down after Wilson completely whiffs on a blitz pickup, you might change your mind. But it would be too late.

Wilson's blocking ineptitude is a disaster waiting to happen.
Jon is here  
vibe4giants : 9/9/2013 11:46 am : link
where we need him most.
Tiki sucked his first few years?  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2013 11:47 am : link
He was having a nice rookie year and got hurt. Poor 1998 season but in 1999 he ran well in limited chances, caught 66 passes and was an excellent punt returner.

the fumble thing is curable  
bc4life : 9/9/2013 11:48 am : link
but he has also made himself more of a target because now all defenders will be licking their lips and rippin away at that ball.
Matt  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 9/9/2013 11:48 am : link
I brought this up last night.

AP fumbled 16 times from 2008-2009.

Wilson had a bad night. He will learn from it and hopefully redeem himself.
I agree  
ImaGiant86 : 9/9/2013 11:49 am : link
It was the 1st game that we were still in at the end, even after the turnovers. Wilson will turn it around as well, I'm confident in that.
Greg  
Danny L : 9/9/2013 11:50 am : link
if he was doing so well why did they draft Dayne?

I'm fine with either decision.  
Curtis in VA : 9/9/2013 11:50 am : link
Scott isn't very good doesn't have a future on this team anyway. But he does know the offense and a veteran would take a few weeks to get acquainted with the playbook before contributing significantly (I'm assuming).

Of course, Jacobs does know the playbook and could come in right away. He's a great blocker as are a few others out there and can move the pile on short yardage since the offensive line apparently can't.
bc  
Matt in SGS : 9/9/2013 11:50 am : link
Dickerson fumbled because he was very tall for a RB (6'3", almost 6'4") and ran very straight up, like a sprinter. So teams would be able to get a good shot at him by the ball and knock it loose. But if they missed, he'd be at full speed just past the line of scrimmage and would be gone.

But I do agree with your point on Bradshaw, he fumbled when fighting for an extra inch or yard. Remember how he fumbled late in the 2011 Championship game but the refs gave him forward progress? Wilson doesn't seem careless with the ball, he just needs to be more aware as he fights for that extra yard.
Wilson  
MattHofstra : 9/9/2013 11:52 am : link
obviously you stick with..he's too talented to cast aside, but I see nothing that would make me want to stick with Scott..he doesn't make the roster if Brown doesn't go down
Why?  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2013 11:53 am : link
Well, for one thing Toupee Ernie ran awful drafts. For another thing, the Giants had Tiki pigeonholed as a third-down back. They wanted Dayne to be a workhorse #1 and for Tiki to be Dave Meggett.
If Wilson wants to be an NFL running back  
HomerJones45 : 9/9/2013 11:54 am : link
he needs to stick his nose into that 270 lbs DE. It hurts alot, it's not pleasant, but it's part of the job. Bradshaw isn't any bigger but he did it. Wilson perhaps cost us a td making that silly dive at the pass rusher's feet. You simply can't have that.
in 99, the stats show Barber fumbled 5 times in 62 carries  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/9/2013 11:54 am : link
for 258 yards.
It happened last night to Dallas too  
Matt in SGS : 9/9/2013 11:54 am : link
their backup running back was lunging for that extra few inches and was drilled by Lindval and Rivers and the ball came out, but Dallas had their TE in the right spot to fall on it.

I noticed this about Wilson last year, for a smaller guy, he's very powerful and will carry some bigger guys an extra yard or two as he's fighting to get more yards. But in doing so, that just sets up other players to rip at the ball. It's a fine line to know as a running back (or WR for that matter), when to give up on the play and just go down and when to fight for that extra yard without risking a fumble.
If Wilson can't (won't) block  
Sec 103 : 9/9/2013 11:55 am : link
he's done... Punt returner at best...
Matt  
AnishPatel : 9/9/2013 11:55 am : link
the first fumble was when he was bottled up. Hyno missed his block and crashed into Wilson. The defender reached in and ripped it out. The second one was as he was going to the ground. He has to hold on to that. That's bad luck. Credit the Cowboys for trying to get him to fumble

We had our backs fumble. Jacobs did too. Sometimes in bad spots like the goal line in the Gb playoff game. Kevin Boss recovered it at the 1 yard line.

Shit happens, I want to see if he has the mental fortitude to rebound or not. I am interested in seeing that character trait.
We need to bring in a veteran who is dependable  
PatersonPlank : 9/9/2013 11:56 am : link
Let Wilson go back to being the 3rd down guy.
yeah, and he caught 66 passes for 609 yards, too  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2013 11:56 am : link
Let me know when the GHH does that. SPOILER ALERT!!!! He won't.
Not me. It's time for an established vet that can block.  
Boy Cord : 9/9/2013 11:58 am : link
Someone with something left in the tank. Reliable.
Keep wilson  
95cobraguy : 9/9/2013 11:58 am : link
Bring back jacobs and cut scott.
Keep playing Wilson and get a veteran  
David in Belmont : 9/9/2013 12:02 pm : link
who can block. But it wasn't all Wilson or Scott's fault. Hynoski didn't block well either. And the play calls didn't make any sense. Why run a screen on your first offensive play of the season when everyone is hyped. Call some running plays to calm your team down. And why try a screen to Ware's side. Stupid play calling.

And just once I'd like Coughlin, who talks about player accountability, to stand up there and say the he and Gilbride called bad plays that put their players in position to fail.
which  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2013 12:03 pm : link
blocking play are you guys upset with? The Selvie play on the goal line or something else?
I hope you're right jlukes  
mako J : 9/9/2013 12:09 pm : link
Quote:
Reminds me of 2011 when everyone panicked
jlukes : 11:44 am
about Cruz dropping everything in the first game.

Giants went out and signed Stokely.

We all know what happened next...


Eric  
bc4life : 9/9/2013 12:10 pm : link
Back to the basic premise of this thread - yeah. Sometimes, you have to just fight through the dumb mistakes. Toomer, Tiki, etc. all had their issues early in their careers.

And, when they get their acts together - we may have one of the faster backfields in the league.

I think signing a veteran would help if for not other reason than mentoring.
2nd and goal after the Mundy INT.  
Victor in CT : 9/9/2013 12:11 pm : link
brutal
TC will get wilson straight.  
shabu : 9/9/2013 12:11 pm : link
TC will get wilson straightened out.. and Wilson will keep playing I think.

That said, i would like to see the Giants add a vet RB just to be there for these kids at a minimum, even if the Vet has few carries.

I am not sure what that means roster wise but I think we need some vet leadership there.

Or bring in TIKI or someone who has been through what wilson is going through...
uhh David  
mako J : 9/9/2013 12:11 pm : link
Coughlin did take blame for the sloppiness and ineptitude of his team in his press conference.

And a well executed screen to take advantage of an over hyped hard charging defensive front is brilliant, if it's well executed....
I don't know.  
Rick5 : 9/9/2013 12:13 pm : link
Tomorrow is going to be very interesting. Are the Giants bringing in some vets to light a fire under these guys, or will they actually sign one? If they sign one, my guess would be that TC/Gilbride/Ingram expected Wilson to be further along at this point.
I'd stick with them too  
hazydavey : 9/9/2013 12:15 pm : link
The real issue, I think, is depth.

That's the argument for signing someone.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Giants carried four RBs plus Hynoski last year.

much more concerned about the ball getting yanked  
nyynyg : 9/9/2013 12:20 pm : link
that seems like a strength thing that may be harder to fix than fumbling. If Wilson was holding the ball wrong or putting in on the ground, I know that is fixable. But he got victimized twice last night on just getting the ball pulled away from him.
Hynoski  
Sammo284 : 9/9/2013 12:21 pm : link
Is somebody that should be looked at being replaced. He was brutal.

He was good in our SB run but I haven't see much positive since the beginning of last year from him.
hazydavey -  
Rick5 : 9/9/2013 12:21 pm : link
You may be right given that it sounds like McGahee was set up on Friday (unless they were already concerned from practices last week or even earlier).
Add a vet, but Wilson will be fine  
Kyle : 9/9/2013 12:22 pm : link
.
We just have to ride it out with Wilson  
Jerry in DC : 9/9/2013 12:27 pm : link
He's the only guy who can be even adequate running the ball. It's up to the coaches and Wilson himself to get the issues straightened out. This isn't rocket science kind of stuff. Hold on to the ball and block the right guy.
.  
Patrick77 : 9/9/2013 12:40 pm : link
The whole size and weight argument for poor blocking is a joke IMO. Blocking is about technique, leverage and attitude. Wilson is 5'9, same with Bradshaw, MJD, Rice, etc... They all block fine. Marshawn Lynch blocks like a Mack truck, he is two inches taller, and 10-15 pounds heavier. Clinton Portis de-cleated Kiwanuka before and he again would be roughly 2 inches taller and no more than 10 pounds heavier.

Wilson is afraid or unwilling to square up and goes for the cut block every time and the defenders know it. He would be better served to just take his beating every time and get ran over by the rusher, at least that would take some forward momentum off the rusher...

The fumbles can, and IMO will be corrected. The pass blocking is terrifying. I'm surprised a second year player blocks like such a pansy. I don't know how they can let him protect Eli, he may as well be used like Westbrook used to and go out on a pass route every single time.
Tiki Barber could block very well  
ZogZerg : 9/9/2013 12:41 pm : link
And he was no bigger than Wilson. He should be doing a lot at this point in his career.

Regardless, it seems kind of silly to bring in a vet now when people keep saying how "complex" the system is. You have to give Wilson some more time. Maybe he needs better coaching?
Sammo...  
BMac : 9/9/2013 12:43 pm : link
...Surely you jest. If not, then I give up.
Pass blocking  
hazydavey : 9/9/2013 12:45 pm : link
I'm just as concerned about Wilson's performance as everyone else here..

But pass blocking is not just about effort and attitude - though those are pretty darn important attributes.

But as you said, it's also about technique. And just as importantly, it's about knowing the scheme and reading the play correctly. That comes with more reps and more experience.

Calling Wilson as a "pansy" because he's a crap pass blocker is unfair. Bradsahw wasn't good at pass protection at first either. These are growing pains. He'll learn and get better.
Hynoski is going to be ok.  
Curtis in VA : 9/9/2013 12:46 pm : link
He was rusty last night. Guy hasn't hardly practiced at all this year.

And I don't really know what to say with regards to your comment about his play last season.
prediction  
Fish : 9/9/2013 12:47 pm : link
Wilson has a solid all round game on sunday.
Bradshaw is 5'9  
ghost718 : 9/9/2013 12:48 pm : link
but stocky.He was made to hand out beatings,or drag the occasional defensive lineman in the Superbowl.

I don't know if you can say that about Wilson,regardless of any article that comes out in the press.
Clinton Portis  
RB^2 : 9/9/2013 12:49 pm : link
was one of the best blocking backs I remember watching.
RB's  
fkap : 9/9/2013 12:49 pm : link
typically adjust to the pro game sooner than other positions. Wilson wasn't trusted much last year, the coach speak was 'he's still learning' during preseason, and he got yanked in favor of a RB who's never sniffed the field. What does that tell you about what the coaches think of him? It tells me that the coaches are thinking they might have made a mistake in drafting him in round 1.

I don't pretend to be a talent evaluator, but I don't get any sort of warm fuzzy about Wilson being a star.
Sorry to say  
blueblood'11 : 9/9/2013 12:50 pm : link
I do not see Wilson as an every down back. Game breaker yes, a dependable every down back no. A goal line back no. A change of pace of back yes. I don't think you can hitch your wagon to this guy to make the tough yardage.
hazeydavey  
Patrick77 : 9/9/2013 12:52 pm : link
I don't think it is unfair at all. The way he is "trying" to block is a terrible technique, he isn't even going for their knees, he is lowering his head and diving at the rusher's ankles. And he tries that pretty much exclusively. So either he is being taught an awful technique or he is consciously deciding to do what he knows is not the proper technique and risk his quarterback's health instead of squaring up and at least attempting block correctly.
Eric I disagree  
hudson : 9/9/2013 12:52 pm : link
I think JR gambled by not having any real experienced backs.

Wilson should have been a 1a where he could help on ST.
Instead with Brown gone his role is way way to high being the all purpose back with nobody to spot or help out.

I think he'd and the Giants are better if he could be supplemented by an experienced back for short yards/blocking.
I think he is basically going from 0-60 and it's too much.
imo, it a combo of things  
micky : 9/9/2013 12:53 pm : link
Giants are missing Brown, who can run between the tackles and push the pile (short yardage) even with this porous OL.

Wilson lacks the protecting (ball and picking up blocks) Scott just doesn't seem to the ability, esp with this OOL playing poorly (for the most part).

fkap  
hazydavey : 9/9/2013 12:53 pm : link
If the Giants thought so little of Wilson, they would not have cut Bradshaw, their leading rusher and only experienced RB, and signed....well, exactly no one to replace him.

The Giants believe in Wilson. It's way too early to give up on this kid.
Good to read  
jLefty : 9/9/2013 12:55 pm : link
some perspective and sort of support for Wilson. Would like to see an RB signing though.
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