We have all talked about how we have struggled having a quality LB for years now, and on draft day - a lot of people don't want the Giants to reach for players. However, just in the last two years alone, here is a list of LBs who were drafted in round 2:
Mychael Kendricks
Bobby Wagner
Zach Brown
Lavonte David
Manti T'eo
Arthur Brown
Alec Ogletree (taken after our 1st round pick)
Kevin Minter
Kiko Alonso
Jon Bostic
Jamie COllins
There are a lot of difference makers there in David, Ogletree, Wagner, Z. Brown. Alonso has looked superb for the Bills and Kendricks is having a nice start to this year. T'eo is still hurt and Bostic, Minter, A. Brown, and Collins have yet to make an impact.
Now the reason why I bring this up is because our LBs are the worst in the NFL. We need a 3 down LB, especially a MLB who can help control the game. Granted I dont think the defense has been terrible, but it still could be improved.
One thing that is hurting the Giants is our rounds 2-3-4 picks have yet to play. It doesnt mean they are bad picks or busts, but they are not contributing. A lot of teams are relying on draft picks, and the last two years - Pugh has become a starter, Randle a 3rd WR, and Wilson in and out of the lineup/doghouse.
It just sucks realizing we passed on a good many LB the last few years, maybe its time we take a LB with our 1st/2nd pick.
For all we know he might be another Herzlich.
They've done pretty well when shopping for quiet, under the radar linebackers. They did it with Pierce, Boley, and Mitchell.
Just haven't been lucky since.
If you watch other guys around the league, you would see the disparity in quality of LB play. For how "athletic J. Williams is, his size/strength/speed are no match for other LBs in the league.
It will be interesting to see what Reese will do.Maybe we should start calling him the JPP of linebackers in college football threads
Saw him run right down the seam with Denver's TE. He's extremely athletic, there's no denying that.
All the speed in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't take the right angles or you bite on fakes and have to catch up.
They could both be in blue. Sigh.
The problem these days is the D-line is not holding up it's end of the bargain.
Even within the standard for this defensive philosophy these LB's aren't good enough. They aren't even as good as the LB's who started in 2011.
All it would take is just ONE good MLB to dramatically change things. Not a Pro Bowler, but a good player. We don't have it and we need it. We need other things too but a sound MLB is certainly a piece thats missing.
Matt Ryan 19 of 33 to RB/TE
Jay Cutler - 18 of 28 to RB/TE
Rivers - 18 of 36 to RB/TE
Brees - 21 of 26 to RB/TE
Romo - 15 of 30 to TE/RB
Palmer - 12 of 23
Stafford - 11 of 24
It is not just the Giants
They could have taken Wagner, David or Brown. Or even an OL like Glenn or Osemele instead.
But we are now not getting the pressure from our DEs. They used to command double teams, or at least chipping by a TE or RB. Now they are being blocked one on one, and rather easily at that. So we aren't getting pressure with four. When they did so, it covered up weaknesses in our LBs, but not anymore.
The cause of this is ominous, as it isn't just one DE:
Tuck: Done.
JPP: Coming off back surgery, and has played well, but hasn't done anything this year. His weight problems, dating back to last year before he was injured, suggest a lack of commitment.
Kiwi: Invisible. Could be he is still adjusting to yet another position switch, but he is also getting a bit long in the tooth.
Moore: Unproven.
That is a lot of questions for a position to which the Giants have invested a lot of draft picks and importance.
Great - they had a big game against Geno smith in his 1st NFL start
They were part of the worst pass defense in the NFL last year
75 yards on 20 carries
RBs had 10 catches for 55 yards
Yes, they couldnt stop Jimmy Graham. But the rest of your analysis is off,
Foster/David:
13 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 3 PD, 1 INT, 1 TD.
Yeah, sign me up for that against Brees any day of the week.
But these guys at LB are just not good players. Not even average players. They are an exploitable weakness in any defensive scheme. Not to mention the fact they are dangerously thin in terms of depth. This is a skeleton crew.
It isn't the only reason the defense underperforms, but it is definitely a part of the problem.
Curtis in VA : 10:43 am
Its been regurgitated so many times over the years that its practically a cliche at this point.
Even within the standard for this defensive philosophy these LB's aren't good enough. They aren't even as good as the LB's who started in 2011.
All it would take is just ONE good MLB to dramatically change things. Not a Pro Bowler, but a good player. We don't have it and we need it. We need other things too but a sound MLB is certainly a piece thats missing.
Their evaluation process is terrible when it comes to selecting LBs and they leave willfully leave a hole in the Defense that should be filled (MLB) by someone who they can hang their hat on, instead of get by without. Greg is spot on about Navarro Bowman too btw. The Giants AT LEAST need to bring in a decent MLB here. They passed on Bostic this year too. Enough already.
Keith Rivers: D
Rivers didn't see the field much, and when he did, he didn't do much with his time. He was unable to protect the edge against a tight end who blocked him on a run. He did mange to get one penetration, but it didn't matter that much, as Peyton Manning worked himself out of harm's way to complete his pass.
Mark Herzlich: C
Currently the starting middle linebacker until further notice, Herzlich's biggest gaffe of the day was failing to cover up the third-quarter fumble that the Broncos recovered. There's nothing wrong with Herzlich's effort, but he always seems to be a step too slow or too late in getting to a pile.
Spencer Paysinger: C+
Paysinger started out strong, but by the end of the game, his play started to get sloppy, perhaps due to the high number of snaps he was asked to take as part of the nickel package.
In the fourth quarter, he failed to wrap up on several running downs, was the invisible contain on Moreno's second touchdown run, and was beaten in single coverage by tight end Julius Thomas for a second-half touchdown despite being in position to break up the play.
Jacquian Williams: C-
Williams struggled in zone coverage in that he simply doesn't know how to take proper angles. As a result, when a man enters his assigned zone, there is often lots of space for that man to exploit.
Basically repeating the same issues that have been pointed out time and time again. They are not instinctive and don't react quickly enough. They don't disengage from blocks. And they are not good tacklers.
This has nothing to do with the defensive philosophy. These players are just not good at playing their position. You could pick up any LB off the free agent scrap heap right now and get the same level of production.
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Smith and Bishop are serviceable. We have to get away with that mentality.
This team rushes the passer they win. They don't they lose. It is as simple as that
I will agree not bringing in more LB in camp was an error. However, why are so many other teams LB being exploited the same exact way
They just aren't good. Even with whats expected of them in this defense.
Since then he's been terrible. That's development, or lack of it.
Again, nobody thought he lacked ability then.
I believe that to get quality LB's you have to draft higher up in the draft.. You just will not get the talent drafting in the bottom third of the round.. The better guys just go earlier.. period.. everyone else will have question marks.. Very hard to find a three down LB later in the draft..
A lot of the LB's in college are just smaller DE's who dont play well in space.. and again the guys that DO play well in space go EARLY.. usually top 15...
Our DC sucks.. period.. Coughlin simply doesnt evaluate DC's well. Our best DC over the years was Spags who Coughlin didnt hire..
I dont believe we have good linebacker coaches.. and I have believed that for years..
we need a complete lb in the worst way
Michael Boley wasn't great last year but he was our best LB during his time here, his replacement I assume is Jacquian Williams but Paysinger starts and so far is just awful. Blackburn was a smart player, not fast but didn't make mistakes and we somehow won a SB with him starting. If healthy, I think Connor is an upgrade but he's gone for the year and now we have a major downgrade in Herzlich. Kiwi moves back to DE and we replace him with Keith Rivers who again, has done nothing of note.
Our LBs don't attack and that I assume that is system based. They are supposed to read and react, but we have one LB with no instincts, one with no speed and one who I just don't understand (Rivers). There is not one, outside of Williams who plays with any fire and seems to want to be out there. A lot of football is effort, how bad do you want it? I don't see much of that out of our LBs and our DL aside from Cullen Jenkins and Mike Patterson.
When you cannot find, train or sign and plug in decent LBs you have a philosophical problem, not all of the players we have gotten can possibly be that awful.
And we waste a roster spot keeping a 3rd QB because someone else might grab him on waivers?
Brilliant. If you think the season is a disaster, wait until Curtis Painter trots in...
With the 187th overall pick in the draft, the Giants could have chosen RB Andre Ellington out of Clemson. He dropped and was expected to be picked somewhere around the 3rd round. Ellington is doing well with the Cards and is a pretty decent pass protector and receiver coming out of the backfield (he's about 5'9" and 200 lbs.).
Both Greene and Ellington would have been BIG helps to this team IMO over Nassib, and I'm one of the people that totally understood why they selected Nassib and made the move that they did for him. Sometimes though, teams need t make exceptions to their organizational philosophy and deal with the needs that would most benefit the team. They should have stayed put and selected Khassem Greene at OLB in the 4th with their 116th pick, and RB Andre Ellington with their 6th rounder and 187th overall pick of the draft.