The Heart of the Giants Problem...

Yes Eli needs to play better, but so does the whole damn team, defense included.

To solely blame Eli is comical at best. That just tells me you really don't have a good understanding of the Giants and what they do particularly on offense.

You probably could list a dozen or more contributing factor for the 0-2 start and Yes Eli would be a part of that.

Just to give you an example...Eli's pick at the end of the half.

I'm sure you blame Eli for that one just like the other 6 that he has also thrown.

To me that's on Nicks. Nicks had an option on that route to run a post(which he did) or a flag route(where Eli threw the ball). I've seen many say Eli should've thrown the ball away. I've got no problem with Eli giving Nicks a chance to make a play on the ball. Hell what QB doesn't trust a Wr like Nicks?

What most fail to realize is that ball is long gone out of Eli's hands PRIOR to Nicks making his cut to the post. This is a product of the offensive system which is a bigger issue in my book.

Do you realize why Eli threw the ball to the flag? Maybe it was because Eli saw the safety crashing hard from this inside to help on the coverage. Do you think Nicks was suppose to run the option route towards more coverage? Nicks F'd his one up big time!

So before we throw Eli under the bus for this 0-2 start I think we need to look at the whole picture. There is much blame to go around, but hopefully this team gets their act together and turns this around. Season is still early with a lot yet to be decided.

The Giants' 73 yards rushing is way beyond pathetic for ONE game, no less TWO, the Giants have HALF the rushing yards of all but 7 other teams, & are 124 yards below the NFL avg. over 2 games, but Eli is the problem.

That was supposed to be LESS than half. To put things in perspective, the fucking Raiders have 5.4 times more rushing yards than the Giants.

...I don't think anyone on BBI -- and surely not I -- believe Eli is the sole reason for the team's 0-2 start. I started this thread by recognizing several problem areas, and I put Eli first in line.

You provide a very insightful description of that Denver INT before the half, but there is no getting around that Eli threw a high risk ball there at a critical juncture of the game. There's a very good reason why the INT stat is listed under the QB's name, and not the WR's. It is the former who decides when and where to launch the ball, not the receiver.

Eli has been a lousy on-field manager of the game so far. He is simply throwing passes that are inexcusable for a 2-time Super Bowl MVP champion playing in his 10th season.

Inexcusable.

...just give him the 2008 supporting cast. We already know he can be that guy, because he was that guy when the situation called for it.

shot themselves in the foot. The running game is the culprit for that happening. They have become one dimensional. Even moderate success running the ball in either game changes the outcome dramatically. Fix this problem or lose all season.

I don’t know if it’s right to BLAME Eli, but MY expectation – and I imagine the expectation of everyone here, is that he is the master of the comeback. When down by a score or 2 late in a game, pass blocking and the running game have traditionally NOT been factors with Eli. Late in that Dallas game??? THAT’S ELI TIME! Romo throws shitty late game interceptions like that, not Eli. Against Denver – Eli Manning doesn’t throw late game interceptions. Eli Manning at the VERY LEAST, makes a blowout competitive.

So I agree with M.S. – yes, this Giants team is lacking in many areas, but the fact is – so have MANY other Coughlin/Manning teams. The difference so far has been Eli’s lack of 4th quarter response.

The responses here are ALL valid. They are ALL logical. But Eli’s career has not been about logic.

It has been about the ability to turn on the jets when the going gets tough.

And for 2 weeks at least, we haven’t seen it.

For the first time I can remember, he now has to be seriously concerned about some guy on the other side of the line ending his career. I mean, who's protecting him? Tends to affect one's play.

like I stated before, which you still don't get, this is a byproduct of our offensive system. Which btw, is probably the most difficult to run and be mistake free in.

The best part of this post is that while fans like you shit all over Eli you rarely hear a coach or another player throw Eli under the bus for his Ints.

Think about it.....

turnovers. Stop those and the Giants are 1-1, possibly 2-0.

(1) It is very rare indeed to hear any coach or player throw another player under the bus;

(2) Be that as it may, I didn't think I was throwing Eli under the bus... more like pointing out what I feel have been some very bad throws and some very costly on-field decisions by the Giants QB;.

(3) You seem to be arguing that the bad Eli stats (after 2 games) are a product of a complex system and that either the WRs, OL and/or fluke plays are more to blame for Eli's performance than Eli himself.

(4) I definitely recognize the other parts to Eli's performance so far, but I also believe Eli's performance begins with Eli, not someone or something else.

Quote:

If Eli isn't throwing bombs JohnF : 9/18/2013 12:02 pm we don't score. Our redzone offense is horrific, and it comes back to the Offensive Line not being able to block.

The rest of your post is spot on. The problem is that it's hard to fix. Unless Gilbride/Eli suddenly change their style of play (at least for some plays), nothing will change.

I can see Pugh and Brewer getting better as the season goes on. I'm not sure if Baas or Snee have much left to make the Oline respectable. No running game, no short passing game = loss.

Eli has made some poor decisions, no doubt, but the fact remains that the offensive line is a bigger source of our woes. Put Peyton behind this line with constant inside pressure to go with a nonexistent running game and I argue that we would still be 0-2.

A lot of these unforced errors (ironically some caused by Eli 'forcing') would not happen if we could establish some sort of consistency in running the football and reliably protect our QB in the obvious passing situations which ensue. Again, it all starts up front.

you so realize that when he threw the 4th int they were already down 38-16..?

And like I said earlier the 2nd was a fluke off the DB's heel..

and it would have been even worse if the Broncos didn't gift us a fumble into the end zone.

PROBLEM is the GIANT front office.
1. Draft for your need not best player available.
2. Our play calling is very predicable.
3. Reese is horrible.
4. Rolle and Thomas seem to be the only players on defense that are vocal.
5. By signing Jacobs we have at least he and Cruz as spark plugs.
6. Sign some that is a creative D.C.

Eli has struggled at times, but to put all the blame on him is plain ludicrous. When you have zero running game play action ceases to work. I will say the OL has been decent in pass pro, but their run blocking is horrendous.

I also put a fair amount of blame on the coordinators. KG has become too predictable & slow. PF is just clueless sometimes.

..

Coughlin and Co have been outcoached by... P Manning.

First half they gather intel... Second half they exploit it on both sides of the ball...

Darren Sharper said he loved playing Eli because he know there will be opportunities "to eat" which in DB speak means to get INTs... now he blames that on Eli and I dig that. In reality he's talking about our offensive strategy. what we are going to do from play to play, series to series appears to be well known in the league. When we win games (which is not THAT often 10-6 in 2007, 12-4 2008, 8-8 2009, 10-6 2010, 9-7 in 2011 and 2012) its not usually because of superior playcalling or strategy, but instead the sheer will of the players involved in the plays.

Its takes AMAZING highlight reel throws by Eli to beat coverages. Acrobatic ass catches by the WR and TE (which gets them crushed at the same time) or simply, slip ups by the secondary like when Cruz breezed past the Redskins secondary for a last second touchdown last season.

Theres a reason why 90% of Giants fans have agita instead of excitement during football season.