Basically said he doesn't mind Eli's interceptions. That's the type of offense the Giants have built. There a big play team and they wouldn't be effective if they didn't take chances
but it's who Eli is and it's how we succeed, taking the big shot with our playmaker receivers. Some of the dumber decisions in situations that don't call for it would be nice to cut down, however.
It's the TD:INT ratio. I can accept a fair number of picks as the cost of doing business in this offense if they're getting more TDs than we've seen. Right now, instead of TDs, they're settling for FGs too often.
Also, Eli's last two picks on Sunday didn't really bother me. He was trying to rally his team down three scores in a hurry. The only way to do that is to go for the quick strike TD. It failed and we lost. So what? The game was lost anyway, so might as well go for the miracle.
We've seen a lot of other QBs play it safe in garbage time to preserve their stats (Aaron Rodgers in last year's NYG game comes to mind -- he pretty much gave up on that game in the third quarter -- and RG3 in both outings so far this year)
and chucking up third and long passes that basically function as the equivalent of punts. If he throws a pass to Nicks and a DB outmuscles him or has better positioning so be it, that happens, but some of the INTs are just mystifying.
It's popular to show a correlation league wide between turnovers and win/loss, but I don't believe that means causation all of the time. It certainly did in Dallas, but whether it did against Denver is debatable. Sometimes one team just plays better than the other, and turnovers are a symptom of that difference in the level of play.
I always remember reading in Simms's book about how Par cells chewed him out for checking down in practice. His reason was a belief that plays designed to go downfield should go downfield.
I can live with most picks...but the ones like the one at the end of the half last week are brutal.
Kurt warner won MVP in a year when he had something like 33 TD and 22 INT. I agree with those who say the offensive touchdowns would set it off,if our red zone problems weren't so acute.
has thrown more than 150 INTs since coming into the league in 2004, more than any other player. That is far too many, even accounting for the fact that the Giants will end up with more INTs because it is a big play offense.
The real problem is the number of INTs that are a result of "miscommunications" between Eli and his receivers. That number is much too high, and an indication that the offense is just too complicated. This is also why we typically get less production from first year WRs than other teams.
I wish Eli could switch over on 3rd downs to figure the play most likely to just get a first down. Then go ahead and throw downfield into traffic and hope Nicks or Cruz makes a big play.
you throw a higher number of picks than QBs in lower-risk offenses do. Simple as that.
Maybe if Eli didn't have to work a quadratic formula in his head before every passing play, we might see some crisper passing and more time of possession.
The only season his interception total stood out was 2010
The correlation between turnovers and wins/losses is just too strong to overlook. It's pretty staggering. You can span any era, with any set of rules and styles of play, and turnover differential throughout NFL history consistently decides games more than anything other than point differential (which actually does decide games). Nothing else is even close. And when you are +2 or better, you virtually never lose
In fact, when going +2 or better in TO's under Coughlin, the Giants have actually never lost. Not once. 38-0 including the playoffs since 2004.
was a historically anomalous NFL week where 5 teams lost games despite winning the TO battle. That almost never happens. Week 1 teams who won the TO battle went 11-1 (only the Pats vs Buf lost the TO battle and won and needed a late FG). That's more in line with NFL averages
Since 1996 the Giants have lost a grand total of one game when going +2 or better in TO's. That was a 15-14 loss in 2001 vs the Rams, a game we totally should have won but got jobbed by about 8 officials calls. I am not a bash the officials guy but that was one of the handful of games in my life where their performance really bugged me
it's not a hail mary. If the coverage was what Eli thought he saw, it was thrown perfectly and it would have gone for an easy TD. That's what we're hoping for, TDs over FGs.
Unfortunately, Eli misread the coverage. He fucked up, without a doubt, but it wasn't a 'zero reward' throw by any stretch of the imagination. Wasn't necessarily high risk either, it was just poor execution.
.... Wow, so Eli Manning has thrown more interceptions than anyone since 2004. Big deal. He's also won as many Super Bowls as any other QB during that time and has played in more games than anyone else.
Of his 7 this year, the only three that I wanted back from him were the Ware interception, the Da'Rell Scott play at the end of the Dallas game and the one at the end of the first half on Sunday.
It's kind of like bitching that Reggie Jackson struck out to many times. I don't remember anyone complaining when he was hitting home runs.
Eli told Francesa he was just throwing it away and didn't get it out far enough. Denver got pressure and Nicks had a post route and he wanted to throw behind him in a vacated area to get rid of it
That was really the only INT Sunday that bugged me. From a macro standpoint we do need to cut down on the TOs but just speaking on Sunday... One was a fluke bounce. The other was a 4th and 10 heave, and the last one couldn't have been more irrelevant to the outcome
there are going to be miscues like the fluke INT with randle and tipped balls. those are the ones you live with. ones where you if nicks is single covered you throw it up for grabs to give him a chance to win the battle. even some miscommunications between the QB and WR will happen due to the system. those are the ones you live with.
but screen passes? throwing into triple coverage in the end zone? come on. those are sanchez-esque
Maybe if Eli didn't have to work a quadratic formula in his head before every passing play, we might see some crisper passing and more time of possession.
and excluding the Browns who left for a few years and came back, the Arizona Cardinals have the fewest wins in the NFL since 1990 with only 139.
Yet even that franchise has won 80% of the time in that span when they go +2 or better in TO diff (59-15 including playoffs). And that is the worst franchise in the NFL over the last 23+ years in terms of wins
When you win the TO battle even by 1 you win a good majority of the time. Starting at +2 your odds are ridiculous. +3 completely unfathomable. +4 almost unheard of (only two teams in the entire league have lost a game going +4 or better in the last 5 years). Arizona did it last year and Cleveland did it in 2010
...hell, what does he have? Only 7 after 2 games. That's nothing. In fact, I think all of the coaches and certainly all BBIers actually enjoyed that INT right at the end of first half at Denver. We all got a big kick out of that!
on a percentage basis, Brees throws picks on 2.7% of his passes, which is identical to Peytons career. The league average INT % over the last 10 seasons is about 3.03 (thats just an estimation by averaging the last 10 seasons individually, although not an equal number of attempts were thrown in each season which renders that estimate inexact but probably very close)
Eli is up at 3.3%. The only active starters who are worse are Jay Cutler and Freeman
only 3 of the 7 have bothered me. The last one the other day was a clear attempt to try and make something happen when the game is out of hand, kind of like 3 of the ones he had at GB in 2010.
It's the idiotic one to Ware and at the end of the first half the other day that have to stop. Those are the ones that put your team in a bad position and lead to the other ones later in the game.
have been weird. There was the one to Ware and the one that bounced off of Scott's hand. The last two against Denver were heaves into the end zone where the team really had no other choice. I suppose he could have checked it down for some inconsequential stat padding.
I would be concerned if Eli was making shit for brains throws a la Mark Sanchez but I can't say I've seen that.
I should post some links for backup... Here are the game logs for the Giants since 1996 when going +2 or better in turnovers (66-1-1 record, 38-0 under TC)
give a crap about his stats. He'll throw the ball up deep in some circumstances (e.g., at the end of a half or a game) where we need a score and he's gonna give a receiver a shot at a play. He knows that the odds are against a completion, and that an INT may happen, but he does so to try to win and damn the stats.
He makes his share of bonehead throws, but he also sacrifices his stats for the possibility of a win. Very unlike some QBs who dump the ball off for short gains time and again when down by a ton of points near the end of a game, or Jerry Lucas, who would fight with a teammate for a rebound as time was running out to pad his stats.
and every time Eli throws short to Cruz it's a win for the D. Myers, as others here have noted, seems to be the guy you throw to when you want to turn 3rd and long into 4th and short.
It was interesting to see the Broncos and Peyton Manning dink and dunk the Giants to death when they couldn't get the run game going. Essentially, that was the run game. The Giants have gone to quick slants when that's what the defense gave them, but they don't seem to like it and try to get away from it quickly.
They need the option of dump-off passes to the RB and FB. But oy, the running backs...
Perhaps, but it's also possible that a concerted effort to cut down on turnovers may reduce the effectiveness of the offense. Tough to quantify. If that's true (I'm not saying it is) that may be a damning statement about the system. I'm not ready to say that though because I don't have data on it one way or the other.
if he would just look before he throws... even on replays he closes his eyes... He seems to always throw to spot and it gets us in big trouble. The pick six int for a touchdown against seattle a few years back, the pick six he gve to Kerrigan against the redskins in 2011, demarcus ware this year...all because he didn't look before he threw...literally half the picks come from these bullshit timing routes with adjustment by the qb.
with the Giants D (though has actually played ok in weeks 1 and 2)
2010 - 1 every 21.7 tosses 4K yds
2011 - 1 / 36.8 5K yds
2012 - 1 / 35.7 4K yds
2013 - 1 / 13 800 yds or projected 6.4K yds and this is with absolutely no run game.
So I get what Madden is saying, if you're throwing it a ton because that is all you have to your offense at this point, then yes, one would have to excuse and accept the high rate of Int's thus far this year as part of the "system".
From 4 yards away, Eli threw a lazer that Scott never saw until the last nanosecond. And when he DID see it, the ball didn't bounce at all. Scott made a split second stab with an out-stretched arm and that ball went ricocheting right into a waiting defender for a Pick 6.
That INT is on Eli. There is no other interpretation, and I don't care where Scott was supposed to be standing or when his head was supposed to be turned around. Eli threw just an awful, ugly pass there.
is right, eli has no touch on those dump off and screen type passes. i remember in the tampa bay playoff game in 2007 he lazererd one in to jacobs from about 2 yards away in the red zone. he held onto it and scored but he really stuck it on him. he's been doing this shit for years. difference is now is the jitters seem worse because his oline has fallen off so sharply.
i can easily foresee they'll just keep forcing the same 2 run plays and not work on any kind of short passing game at all. i hope i'm wrong because its getting hard to watch.
You can't lose the 3 pts you had locked up there. It's just not smart football.
We've seen a lot of other QBs play it safe in garbage time to preserve their stats (Aaron Rodgers in last year's NYG game comes to mind -- he pretty much gave up on that game in the third quarter -- and RG3 in both outings so far this year)
No: touchless, ill-timed screen passes.
Eli averages something like 18 ints a year and thats ok given they consistently lead the league in long passing plays
But we don't seem to ever do that anymore.
The redzone field goals need to stop.
I always remember reading in Simms's book about how Par cells chewed him out for checking down in practice. His reason was a belief that plays designed to go downfield should go downfield.
I can live with most picks...but the ones like the one at the end of the half last week are brutal.
Eli's got to play better.
The real problem is the number of INTs that are a result of "miscommunications" between Eli and his receivers. That number is much too high, and an indication that the offense is just too complicated. This is also why we typically get less production from first year WRs than other teams.
Maybe if Eli didn't have to work a quadratic formula in his head before every passing play, we might see some crisper passing and more time of possession.
I'm not as concerned about this as I am the general malaise that seems to have descended on the team.
In fact, when going +2 or better in TO's under Coughlin, the Giants have actually never lost. Not once. 38-0 including the playoffs since 2004.
but im not him, and easier said than done im sure.
id be happy with 3 intentional checkdowns a game more than what he does now as a show of progress. one to the FB, RB, and TE each.
Unfortunately, Eli misread the coverage. He fucked up, without a doubt, but it wasn't a 'zero reward' throw by any stretch of the imagination. Wasn't necessarily high risk either, it was just poor execution.
Of his 7 this year, the only three that I wanted back from him were the Ware interception, the Da'Rell Scott play at the end of the Dallas game and the one at the end of the first half on Sunday.
It's kind of like bitching that Reggie Jackson struck out to many times. I don't remember anyone complaining when he was hitting home runs.
That was really the only INT Sunday that bugged me. From a macro standpoint we do need to cut down on the TOs but just speaking on Sunday... One was a fluke bounce. The other was a 4th and 10 heave, and the last one couldn't have been more irrelevant to the outcome
It's certainly possible the turnovers are what's constraining a top 3 scoring offense to top 10 status.
but screen passes? throwing into triple coverage in the end zone? come on. those are sanchez-esque
Yet even that franchise has won 80% of the time in that span when they go +2 or better in TO diff (59-15 including playoffs). And that is the worst franchise in the NFL over the last 23+ years in terms of wins
When you win the TO battle even by 1 you win a good majority of the time. Starting at +2 your odds are ridiculous. +3 completely unfathomable. +4 almost unheard of (only two teams in the entire league have lost a game going +4 or better in the last 5 years). Arizona did it last year and Cleveland did it in 2010
But you can tell the difference between hard luck plays and terrible decisions, and that denver game featured some terrible decisions.
Throwing to 1 man in a sea of 3-4 broncos never has a good context, ever.
Eli is up at 3.3%. The only active starters who are worse are Jay Cutler and Freeman
and, besides cruz and nicks, nobody is...so far
It's the idiotic one to Ware and at the end of the first half the other day that have to stop. Those are the ones that put your team in a bad position and lead to the other ones later in the game.
I would be concerned if Eli was making shit for brains throws a la Mark Sanchez but I can't say I've seen that.
Link - ( New Window )
He makes his share of bonehead throws, but he also sacrifices his stats for the possibility of a win. Very unlike some QBs who dump the ball off for short gains time and again when down by a ton of points near the end of a game, or Jerry Lucas, who would fight with a teammate for a rebound as time was running out to pad his stats.
2011 was perfect, just the right amount of short passes to stretch out the d.
2012, not enough short game.
2013 it looks even worse
It was interesting to see the Broncos and Peyton Manning dink and dunk the Giants to death when they couldn't get the run game going. Essentially, that was the run game. The Giants have gone to quick slants when that's what the defense gave them, but they don't seem to like it and try to get away from it quickly.
They need the option of dump-off passes to the RB and FB. But oy, the running backs...
2011 - 1 / 36.8 5K yds
2012 - 1 / 35.7 4K yds
2013 - 1 / 13 800 yds or projected 6.4K yds and this is with absolutely no run game.
So I get what Madden is saying, if you're throwing it a ton because that is all you have to your offense at this point, then yes, one would have to excuse and accept the high rate of Int's thus far this year as part of the "system".
From 4 yards away, Eli threw a lazer that Scott never saw until the last nanosecond. And when he DID see it, the ball didn't bounce at all. Scott made a split second stab with an out-stretched arm and that ball went ricocheting right into a waiting defender for a Pick 6.
That INT is on Eli. There is no other interpretation, and I don't care where Scott was supposed to be standing or when his head was supposed to be turned around. Eli threw just an awful, ugly pass there.
i can easily foresee they'll just keep forcing the same 2 run plays and not work on any kind of short passing game at all. i hope i'm wrong because its getting hard to watch.
Moving on...