I mean seriously? In Rock's article you hear the players suggesting they should be more aggressive. In the Dallas game, we sent more than 4 guys just a handful of times and Romo became comfortable and eventually made some plays. Against the Broncos, we again didn't put any pressure on Peyton but instead put all the pressure on our DB's which did more than admirably for most of the game. I'm sick and tired of this "react defense" as I call it. We never take it to the opponents, instead we react and adjust to what they are doing.
I sincerely believe we could have a solid defense. Webster and Price are solid and Thomas and Ross are pretty solid backups. Rolle is above average, Tuck, Jenkins, and interior line has been very stout against the run. Take it to them! Be aggressive once in a while for crying out loud. This bend don't break philosophy is a joke and has been for a few years now. I never root for a person to get fired but something needs to be done before the season is lost. I don't want a coach, especially a defensive coach that coaches scared. Thoughts?
As Jerry just pointed out, despite the offense completely fucking up in Week 1 with 5 turnovers the defense held their ground twice in the 4th quarter, stopping Dallas and giving the offense a chance to win the game. The offense failed.
And then in Week 2, against possibly the most prolific offense in the league this year, the defense held Manning and Broncos to 10 points going into halftime . . . meanwhile the offense continued to show incompetence in the redzone while only mustering up 9 points on 3 field goals at the half.
Anyone who wants to target Fewell at this point is barking up the wrong tree.
Certainly we have talent dropoff ... but what Spags did and Fewell does not is have a clear pressure package that we saw deployed.. and what i liked about it is the design to hide where pressure was coming from.
I get our defense is different and I hate what it is personally.. but the secondary this year has me encouraged ( they seem much improved ) which I feel was necessary to improve things... however...
I just wonder what happens if Tuck and JPP don't have near all-pro years and what we can do on defense to bring pressure.. I don't see the combination of PF/personnel getting it done and in the end after last year's performance PF will be facing the shit storm.
Our Run defense has been impressive however and that gives me hope. Assuming the offense gets its shit straight and we can stop the run you have to assume we will have some leads in games..
When that happens I think the writing will be on the wall at that point and if we can get to the QB then we are perhaps OK.
PF doesn't exactly bring a lot of spice and flavor.
But we're just not getting anything from DE.
I wasn't a fan of the defensive rotations last year. I don't know how you play JPP for so many snaps if you know he had a bad back and he's not effective rushing the passer. You carried the young guys for the whole season without really using them.
Offense is been far worse this season
Seen thus far in 2013. Will be interesting to see how he matches up. It's clear he's more comfortable in subs over base, likely because he views TT>3rd LB'er.
Can subs hold up vs. Carolina's 21/22 run game?
Can base with Herz at MLB?
Can base matchup with Carolina's play action game?
What is Perry's base? Big nickel or true 4-3?
let's wait until the bye, before we bring out the hanging rope....
But Coughlin is too loyal.
I just think someone needs to lite a fire under his ass. Be some talk about his job being in jeopardy. I re-watched Dallas game and really focused on our D. Bottom line is, you have to make opposing QB's uncomfortable, and minus a few blitzes that worked, we didn't do that. Peyton is a different animal but also about as immobile as a QB gets. Do you recall us getting in his face?
I wrote this thread after reading Tom Rock's article posted on this website. The defensive players (Tuck&Rolle specifically) are not liking the scheme. They don't feel like they are being aggressive and attacking like they would like to. Defensive players are by nature, attackers. They don't want to sit back and give, give, give.
I appreciate everyones comments, as I don't post very often. Lets go Giants! Big Week!
His D would never give up this many points in the first two games of a season.
Spags is a genius.
Fewell's body of work with the Giants Another lack luster year by the defense and he will be gone.
If they did, I missed it.
What were we ranked last year in passing and rushing defense? It was top 5 right?
I that clip, you noticed how Tuck and Kiwi both could not set the edge on those play.?..That's no fault of Fewell. That' individual match-ups that our DE's should be winning..
After all, no matter how badly the team plays, the coaches never have any responsibility. (Unless you believe Coughlin.)
But the 2013 Giants have been pretty uniformly sucky, it's certainly not limited to the D. But watching Fox's D I'm reminded of what a good D looks like. Fox, the old ba$tard, seems to take particular pleasure in beating the Giants. And it sadly reminds me of when his D as Giants D coordinator DID win games!
GMAN.. you mean that basic football stuff like not getting sealed off the edge isn't a schematic problem?
Nonsense. When in doubt, blame the scheme. To hell with maintaining simple responsibilities or winning 1 on 1 battles.
Paysinger in,Williams out
It looks like Rolle initiates contact with the lineman in the 1st one rather than move laterally towards the sideline which would have funneled the run back inside and probably prevented a TD.
My bad..sorry for making sense..
TD. The backside of the play 2 of their guys try to cut our backside guys pursuing. Thank god no one got hurt on that.
not ice the weakside linebacker is in no position to make a play because of hesitation or running in blockers..Both of those plays should have resulted in Moreno running out of bounds..The instincts just aren't there..
and the Jints hired him and true to form he is making the Jints defense the worst in the league. Fewell will go when Tom retires, which I believe will be this year, a new head coach is not going to keep this guy around.
Fewell deserves a little blame, but he doesn't deserve to be fired. Lack of good LB's and Stevey Brown going down, he simply doesn't have all the pieces he needs and not to mention the D. ends are playing horrible right now..
jintsfan, tell us more about how Cam Newton and Steve Smith are "usually good for 2 TD's against us" even though we've only played them one time and their TD total was 0.
I see that too..But as slow as the LB'ers were going, they missed cut blocking them!..
They have no type of instincts, IMO..They don't sniff out plays..no anticipation, nothing..That's the problem with most of the LB-ers and with Kiwi right now..at least the secondary, the last 2 years, were producing turnovers..
LDE's losing vs a first year TE
MLB and Will slow to react, poor angles, caught in the wash
Corey Webster holy crap!
Wheres the FS?
First one is 11 personnel vs subs- nickel
Second is 12 vs. base.
Who's the sideline to sideline LB'er who can "fire his gun"
really shows how bad our LB's suck. Im sick of Fewell. Another loss giving up 30 plus points and I would ax him. Let one of our assitants run the D until we can pick a legit DC next year. What DC's will be available next year?
mmmm Rex Ryan I dare say? LOL. Honestly he wouldnt do I think but we would have a top ten defense
I'm not a Fewel fan but those who say he never blitzed, I noticed Mundy blitzing on at least a few occasions. Mostly when Denver ran the ball.
I would not have a problem with Fewel being replaced, especially in light of the players being less than enthusiastic about the system. Wonder what Lovie Smith is doing??
when will fewells job be in danger? Other than bradshaw44 noone dared answer, and his answer was stupid, (5 years),meaning he believes the gianys would go 0-80 before fewell got fired.i dont think that's realistic.
Before we answer the question, we must ask what other changes would NY make first.
Would they bench the QB first? -don't think so
Would they fire the OC first? -Prolly not
Would they fire the HC first? -doubtful
Would they bench other players first,or fire them?-likely
assuming a mess of players get released or benched first, at what point then does fewell get fired?
seriously, who dares answer? The answer can also take the form of " After the QB" or "After the HC" if you really feel that's how long he would stick.
I ask the OPs question again, and would be nice if the posters actually answered it as opposed to treating as a virtual impossibility. It was a theoretical question to begin with. No harm in giving a theoretical answer.
Unless of course you truly believe we go 0-80 before we replace the DC.
Defense has mostly been good to very good, made the stops when they had to despite the offense's troubles, and held Peyton and the Broncos in check until the offense & STs (Weatherford) became too much of a burden to carry
No one "dared" answer because the answer should be obvious.
If the defense has a bad year, Fewell won't be back. If they improve and play relatively well, he will be.
His job IS in jeopardy. This is the final year of his deal.
That's a solid answer. The Giants finished 12th last year in points. Considering it's a bend/don't break system, the D did what it was supposed to do pretty well & better than 20 other teams, most of which didn't fire their DC.
The thing that's astonishly stupid is that most of BBI blames Fewell for a suckass D last year & wants him gone even though those same people thought all the LBs sucked royally at everything (run, pass coverage, blitzing) & couldn't make a Division III college team; the DL vastly underperformed b/c Tuck was done or too injured to be effective, JPP was very likely too injured to be the stud he'd been, Canty missed most of the year due to injury & sucked when he got back, Bernard was useless, Kuhn was on IR halfway through, Joseph was petered out by the end of the year, Osi couldn't play the run worth shit & took the long route to China to get to the QB; Webster was done or too injured to be effective, TT missed the entire year, Rolle was out of position, Hosley sucked & numerous backup CBs were on IR. Stevie Brown was the only star, yet even he blew coverages left & right & was dogshit against the run.
Considering ALL the defensive players but one sucked or were too injured to be the studs they'd been in previous years, how is it that a DC much better than Fewell could have gotten these dregs of the earth to play so much better?
When I see threads like this one.
this season because they brought Fewell back.
Who did you want them to hire instead?
they're giving up yards, but not many big plays. They've only given up 4 plays over 20+ yds and none of over 40+ yds this year
I would've taken that defense last year without question. Last year was break, break, then bend in the red zone. We just need those turnovers from the defense
should decline as the year goes on. Denver team is probably going to be the best offense they're going to play all year.
The points allowed should naturally shoot down if the offense gets their shit together
you can't have a read-and-react offense AND a read-and-react defense...basically, you're letting the other team dictate how the game will be played instead of imposing your will on the other team...it worked well with Spags and having an aggressive attacking defense paired up with Gilbride.
to find ways to create a pass rush. If the front 4 can't get it done create blitzpackages that can get home for once. I hate seeing all 4 DL get stopped and if by some chance someone blitzed they get picked up too. Come up with ways to get home to the QB.
har to create a pass rush when you LB'ers have no instincts and slow..You can keep blitzing CB's and that is going to leave your secondary short..
easy to say being creative but if you only have mayonaisse, it is hard to make a sandwich..
do you really think they will let him finish out the year if the defense continues to look like this?I would think it would have to show a marked improvement by the bye.
My tone was shitty, but that's my attitude towards the way this team is playing right now.
And the the Giants would have won both games, this talk wouldn't even been happening. It would be how the defense has improved..
What amazes me more is that people SEE that the LB'ers aren't very good, JPP is still not ready, and the DE's are not playing good at all and STILL want to blame Fewell!!..
roll with it, or you'll go nuts..er, nuttier.
Ron Rivera could become available, would you take him over Fewell ??
Seems too have good history working with linebackers.
| In 1999, Rivera was named linebackers coach for the Philadelphia Eagles. During his tenure the Eagles advanced to the NFC Championship for three consecutive seasons. He is credited with developing linebacker Jeremiah Trotter into a two-time Pro Bowl performer.
On January 23, 2004, Rivera was named the Chicago Bears Defensive Coordinator. In 2005, the Chicago Bears defense was rated second-best in the NFL.
In 2006, the Bears’ defensive efforts failed to match the success of their 2005 season. Nevertheless, the team was still a notable presence in league, finishing with the league’s third ranked and conference’s top-ranked points allowed category. The defense’s success earned Rivera recognition among franchises looking for new head coaches.
The defense hasn't been anywhere near as bad as you seem to think they've been so far.
If the D continues to play this way, Fewell shouldn't be canned because we will win most games where the O plays reasonably well and doesn't give the ball away.
That doesn't mean you stop trying. Factor is our LBs under Fewell haven't done a good job getting pressure. When we do blitz they get stone walled by opposing offensive linemen. The front 4 is ineffective as well. Something needs to be done. You just don't stop blitzed just because our LBs are below average to average. That just means it falls on Fewell to fond ways via Xs and Is to out scheme his counter part. The philosophy of Fewell is rely on the front 4. That can't happen because as we see now we need to supplement pressure in some way. Send different people to keep opposingooffensive linemen on their heels.
It doesn't help either to be fair that teams are getting rid of the ball quicker via dink and dunk. Overall, except for that Fewells D hasn't been a shit show. That's the offense who needs to get their heads out their asses.
Wouldn't that fall on Reese's lap if the team doesn;t have the LB's to get the mission accomnplished?. That like saying the offense should be able to run regardless if the OL sucks donkey dunk..
if you don't have the right personnel, you can'd do the job. I guess you will be eequally pissed of if the starting WR's were jernigan, Barden and Murphy and they couldn't score more than 14 points a game?
Reese and Ross have a philosophy. They are sticking to it. He was on Espn radio and basically said how they had two different LB corps when they won and asked the guys to name them. They had trouble. So he proved his point in that regard.
Now, as a coach, you can't worry about that. Your job is to make it work. If that means via Xs and Os then so be it. In fact if they feel the LB corps is void of talent then you need to find other ways of making it work. Throwing in the towel is not an option.
The offense has to find a way to run. If that means passing to set up the run or changing your Xs and Os, from running BOB running schemes vs pulls, traps, power, power G, G, and center then so be it. You need to find ways to run. This is what coaches have to come up with in their offensive staff meetings. This is the stuff that went on with the staff I was on. This is how it went down when I was working with the Falcons. You have to do the job no matter what. If you feel the personnel quality isn't there, you still need to be creative enough to find a way. This is what all levels of coaching entails. I saw this on my staff, on the falcons staff, and when I worked a clinic with the Cowboys staff. Make it work! Be creative enough to find ways to get whatever you need to work, to work.
Schools have vaults of clinics on video and dvd on installing different offense and concepts. NFL teams have rooms of endless tape. So go back to the drawing board, and find ways to get something going that's not working.
If those WRs are the starting WRs, then obviously they are not starting for a reason. Talent? Not digesting the choose and option routes? If they are my starting WRs then we need to adjust and find ways to get them comfortable. Does that mean installing what they are all comfortable in executing? Sure, that's how I would approach it. What if they are not digesting the sight adjustments properly? Well, maybe for this week, I simplify things until my starters can get healthy. Fact is, I can't throw the towel in. In fact, when shit hits the fan, I prefer to sit in a room and solve the issue. It may not be perfect, but personally man, that's why I loved coaching. Find a way and do it. It's been like 7 years, but that's what I miss.
I just really don't like his schemes, I didn't like the hire, he does some good things but it just makes me feel like I'm watching Rod Rusts defense out there.
It's almost like he asks the D to figure everything out for themselves, and while I don't deny his playcalling puts them in the situation to do that, I just think the burden falls on the players to an extent whereby they do more reading than reacting, and certainly don't do much to dictate tempo or initiative.
Yes, it puts them in a position to capitalize on turnovers, but god forbid they miss the opportunity then the rest of the game is bending and hoping they don't break. I don't like the tradeoff.
It's a scheme that works great with healthy vets who know what they are doing.Injured guys have too much ground to account for and noobs get pwned.It's not initiative based gameplay and sometimes I just don't think he has the players for his schemes, but goes ahead with them anyway as opposed to adapting, which I think it would be hard to argue that's something he is good at.His offenses do OK in spurts, or when they are overloaded with talent and health at a particular position, but what D-line wouldn't do well with a healthy Osi, Tuck, JPP and Kiwi???He doesn't create much pressure at the line, by scheme, and the communications issues just have me wondering what's going on, which is how his DBs look far too often.
No they aren't terrible and they were in both games, but they aren't impressive. It's not just particular performances, I don't like that whole style of defense he calls.Too much time on the field, too much thinking required of the DBs, too much dependent on turnovers for my taste.I just don't enjoy watching it.It aggravates me watching opposing offenses move up and down the field consistenly whislt hoping for a turnover.