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Carl Banks: Chemistry problems in Giants lockerroom

DanMetroMan : 9/23/2013 10:51 am
Conor Orr & #8207;@ConorTOrr 16s

Very surprising to hear Banks say there's chemistry issues in the Giants locker room. #nyg
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I am beginning to feel Coughlin has  
Fred in Atlanta : 9/23/2013 11:01 am : link
lost the team.
The  
NJGiantFan84 : 9/23/2013 11:02 am : link
team is definitely not in sync. We saw this in the pre-season, but I thought they would get it faster than they have. Even Eli and the receivers don't seem on the same page more often than I expected.
On the broadcast yesterday  
NewBlue : 9/23/2013 11:03 am : link
He was very agitated that when the game was virtually over no one picked a fight to at least show some emotion. Leadership here....Manning, Rolle, Snee, Tuck, are not leading. Coaches are a problem too. I love TC and I remember the call for his head in one of our Super Bowl years so I am very reticent to do that again, but it's like the jockey is whipping the horse and the horse is not responding. Either the horse is lame, or a new jockey is needed.
one thing I notice  
Les in TO : 9/23/2013 11:04 am : link
is that when the giants are on defense, eli spends his time talking to killdrive/the other Qbs, but doesn't appear to be talking to his receivers, his backs or his line. It's not to say it doesn't happen, but you don't see him sitting in front of his line discussing plays/options/audibles or coming up to his receivers and backs to give them some coaching.

Some of the vets on this team need to call the guys together - whether it's rolle, tuck, eli or someone else who has some credibility/ring(s), they need to rally the troops and light a fire.
Is this something Banks knows from the inside?  
Exit 172 : 9/23/2013 11:04 am : link
Or is he speculating based on how they look on the field?
Chemistry schemistry  
jeff57 : 9/23/2013 11:05 am : link
It's a talent, and maybe a coaching, problem.
I'd like to know specifically who doesn't like who  
Bockman : 9/23/2013 11:05 am : link
I can't imagine that most of the vets don't get along - the guys that were here in 2011 have to at least have a cordial respect for one another, no?
Banks may be right  
LG in NYC : 9/23/2013 11:07 am : link
but I don't trust he actually has any real in sight.

That said, just got an NFL alert on my phone that Nicks is apparently quoted as saying "I can't throw it to myself".

And the now in-fighting begins...
I thought  
spike : 9/23/2013 11:08 am : link
thats why Jacobs was brought in.

/sarc
While the Super Bowl win wasn't that long ago chronologically,  
Stu : 9/23/2013 11:08 am : link
in football years it might as well be ancient. Does anyone know how many players on this 53 man roster were even on that team? I'd say absolutely less that 50%, so my question is, what do most of these guys know about winning or how to win? You need locker room leaders and we've heard there really are none here. This team obviously appears to be a mess and I wonder what can be done if anything to salvage the season.
Banks  
rdt288 : 9/23/2013 11:08 am : link
Should be quiet. He is an all time great but he has no more insight into this locker room than any other reporter.
Just got a text from NFL.com  
blakjedi : 9/23/2013 11:10 am : link
Nicks is quoting as saying "I cant throw it to myself" UH OH.

This team may be finished.
I disagree 80offensive. While they have high level skill  
Victor in CT : 9/23/2013 11:10 am : link
position players on offense, the offensive line is truly offensive. They stink. If the OL stinks, the skill position players don't mean anything, the QB can't get them the ball. It's just that simple.

The DL is living off it's past rep. The DEs have been ineffectual. There LBs aren't even average. I think the secondary is beeter than people give it credit for, but with no pass rush and poor LB play you can't expect them to cover everything.

Bill Parcells' adage still applies: "You are what your record says you are."
Heres the story  
spike : 9/23/2013 11:11 am : link
"Hakeem Nicks' homecoming in North Carolina turned into a nightmare. The New York Giants wide receiver was only targeted on one pass, and that was a throw away by Eli Manning.

Nicks, a former Tar Heel that grew up nearby, didn't have a single catch. As Nicks' teammate Victor Cruz pointed out, it was a day in which "everything was wrong" for the Giants. Nicks tried to be careful with his words after the game.

"It's part of the game," he said via Conor Orr of the Newark Star-Ledger. "You've got to control what you can control. I can't throw it to myself."

And Manning can't block for himself. The Giants have been the worst team this side of Jacksonville this season, and New York is not an easy place to play when things aren't going well.

Tom Coughlin faces one of the biggest challenges of his career in the coming weeks. The Giants players have to be careful not to turn on each other."
NFL.com - ( New Window )
I think there's, like, a 0% chance Nicks is a Giant next year  
Exit 172 : 9/23/2013 11:12 am : link
.
Nicks is right but not sure he is pointing the finger at Eli...  
MikeN in Ottawa : 9/23/2013 11:12 am : link
all he has to do is look at the film. Eli had no time...none. Plus, teams know how to play us now especially because we cannot run the ball. They are not allowing us big plays and have no respect for our ability to run the ball.

That means teams will be teeing off on Eli...the adjustments should be made by Killbride but he won't.

If Eli gets hurt, watch out because this thing will blow up and real fast.
What comes first?  
Josh in the City : 9/23/2013 11:13 am : link
The chemistry or the winning? Show me one losing team that has "great chemistry."
ie:  
Josh in the City : 9/23/2013 11:13 am : link
this is a non story.
I don't dream of the giants often  
GiantTuff1 : 9/23/2013 11:14 am : link
but I've had three vivid dreams starting right before the season and up to last week, where the Giants were getting destroyed in each one. Like totally inept, kinda like what we saw yesterday, with scores like 52-3.

There was a distinct sense in the dream that the players were trying to get the coaching staff fired and had turned on them.

I laughed it off as 'no way' possibility, but after seeing the results of the last two weeks, I'm starting to wonder if someone in the divine matrix was giving me a glimpse into a developing reality.

Cue Science Fiction Theatre music.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 9/23/2013 11:23 am : link
not a Gilbride hater but I have to say the Giants Redzone offense has been absolutely awful the last 2 years (maybe someone will put up numbers to show I'm wrong) but I watch good offensive teams scored TD's at a far greater rate.
Losing teams  
pjcas18 : 9/23/2013 11:26 am : link
with good chemistry are those younger teams who start out poor, but show some bright spots, young player development, play hard for 60 minutes, and end on an upward trajectory.

I feel the Browns might be a good chemistry losing team, the 2 - 14 Colts, seemed to have good chemistry, even the Lions seem to have good chemistry - the players all but practically kicked Titus Young off the team.

I don't necessarily agree that losing = bad chemistry.

older, veteran laden teams like the Giants, when they lose I could definitely see the correlation though.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 9/23/2013 11:28 am : link
'And then depression set in.'-John Winger, 'Stripes'.
If Nicks is criticizing Eli...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 9/23/2013 11:29 am : link
well, whatever. So what is Eli supposed to do? Block for himself too?

We have no offensive line. None.
Other than Rolle...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 9/23/2013 11:32 am : link
there is no vocal leader in the locker room. Wait...we have Jacobs now, there you have two. Eli leads by example. Right now, we need more than that. We need a few players to throw helmets around.
Eli throwing a helmet is not going to make  
SanFranGiantsFan : 9/23/2013 11:33 am : link
Chris Snee 25 again.

Banks might not be 100% accurate in his view  
JonC : 9/23/2013 11:34 am : link
but he's lived the life, he knows the signs, and he, Papa, and Dottino are absolutely part of the environment on a daily basis. It isn't too hard to recognize chemistry issues amongst other men.
The locker room just saw an offense-defense fight  
dpinzow : 9/23/2013 11:35 am : link
That's exactly what Banks was referring to. The defensive players feel like they are putting in the requisite effort in the first half to keep the team in the game, while the offense has failed miserably in the first half. Back when Banks was playing the defense always attempted to start s*** with the offense in practice to see if they had the mental fortitude to handle what was coming at them on game day. Parcells always let the defense manhandle the offense in practice because he wanted to build a culture of toughness within the team.

Don't be surprised if we see a couple of violent practices here where the defense will pick fights with the OL to see if they are soft or not. Now this type of conflict can galvanize a team on rare occasions, but usually it destroys a team like we saw immediately after Parcells left and during the Reeves era (and a little bit under Fassel as well)
Our Leaders  
dcgiantsfan : 9/23/2013 11:35 am : link
Our two most prominent leaders are lead by example guys. They both over and over say how much they believe in action over talk; which all in all is not bad. But in times like this, when your own play is nothing to write home about....then what? Tuck and Eli are guys that don't wear their emotions on their sleeve, and they are the team's biggest leaders. So now you have the rest of the bunch following their lead. I heard Tuck say in his presser that he's looking for that "spark" play. That one thing that kind of gets the team going. You look at their body language and you can only imagine how their leadership impacts the rest of the team.

On the offensive side of the ball, who is that guy that can get these guys going emotionally? Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Wilson, Meyers, Eli, Oline all of them appear to be low key guys. Cruz is probably the only one that brings some fire...and that's after making a good catch. You don't see any of them being a rally the troops guy.

Lastly, I know the recent past has been good to this team, but today is a new day. The troubles starting out this year are unprecedented for this group. We can no longer hang our hats on the 07 and 11 success because most of those players are gone. It's a new day and I think it's time for our leaders to take a different approach. Just as TC needed to change to get to the mountain top in 07, it may be time for Eli and Tuck and the rest of the supposedly leaders to adjust their approach at turning this thing around. Else the wheels may just come flying off very soon.

Back in the real shit days the defense would come off the filed and  
Stu : 9/23/2013 11:36 am : link
tell the offense to hold them.
Certainly looks like these guys  
Bake54 : 9/23/2013 11:37 am : link
don't want to fight for each other. For that matter, it looks like they're not totally sold on the coaching staff either.

Housecleaning time!
Chemistry really  
JoefromPa : 9/23/2013 11:40 am : link
Banks thinks that is why the Giants are playing poorly?

Hey Carl what does chemistry have to do with Beatty getting blown up play after play. Are you saying he isn't blocking his man because he doesn't care about his teammates?

I find it difficult to believe any NFL player would put his dislike of his teammates over his own personal performance and possible survival as a starter in the NFL

This entire concept is bull. The Giants are losing because they are playing lousy, maybe they just aren't good enough. But if they are and they start to win, see how much chemistry means then.

Bad chemistry is a result of bad play and losing. Anyone who has ever played sports understands that chemistry is a result of winning and lack of it is the result of losing.

The lack of chemistry is not what has caused this team to lose. Banks should know better. Maybe he has too much air time to fill.
Rolle is the only  
nedhiggins : 9/23/2013 11:41 am : link
Even semi vocal leader on this team . I know Jacobs is washed up and the butt of jokes but at least he wasn't afraid to get fired up and pissed off
Time to shake it up  
Rflairr : 9/23/2013 11:43 am : link
10 yrs with the same coach. As Cowher said, team gets sick of the coach at that time
Rflair  
JoefromPa : 9/23/2013 11:45 am : link
that comment is actually very true in sports
This is what happens when you are 0-3  
Steve in South Jersey : 9/23/2013 11:46 am : link
.
I wonder if it's  
chops : 9/23/2013 11:53 am : link
offense,defense or both,
More bowling trips  
NNJ Tom : 9/23/2013 11:59 am : link
Thats what is needed.


Can we please have the tough old Tom Coughlin back. This group of players is soft and need an ass kicking.
I'm probably in the minority  
Sammo284 : 9/23/2013 12:04 pm : link
But I can't stand seeing Jacobs back here. The decision to do so is mind-boggling and is on both Coughlin and Reese.

He's going to be a problem if this gets really bad. Whenever we hit adversity in the time he was here, Jacobs never lead the way out of it, and was usually chirping non-stop.

Also, don't forget Rolle was ready to quit on this team his first year here.


I don't see anywhere where Banks said  
mfsd : 9/23/2013 12:09 pm : link
chemistry issues are the reason why the Giants are losing.

All we have is a couple other reporters saying Banks said there are chemistry issues.

Amazing how these things take on a life of their own
Rolle  
Andrew in Austin : 9/23/2013 12:15 pm : link
seems less vocal now than he was a couple years ago.

Honestly I think we are happy the defense is somewhat mediocre in the 1st half of games. This was a step up from the end of last year. It is not like they are playing that great. Still waiting for our famous DEs to make an impact play or two.

Offense deteriorating so quickly (OL) has been the big surprise for most of us - well for me at least. I thought w/ Nicks, Cruz (thank God we signed him), Randle with his glowing reports in preseason, and Wilson, we would be uber-dynamic on O. Too bad we can't block anyone.
Here are the chemistry issues  
nomad1986 : 9/23/2013 12:28 pm : link
A lot of the core players are old and at the and of their careers. Most of the coaching staff is old and at the end of their careers. That's some really bad chemistry right there.
The thing I found very disturbing during the game was  
Duke : 9/23/2013 12:42 pm : link
the team's demeanor on the sideline. No one cheering each other on. No one picking each other up. No one huddling with their unit or position coaches. I don't think I've seen Eli get together with Gilbride and review pics or formations once this year. No attempt to fire anyone up. No attempt to figure out what went wrong on that last series and get it corrected. None of it. Why? To folks that were at the game, am I wrong?
I can't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/23/2013 12:47 pm : link
put a lot of stock in this.

This stuff always comes out of every team when it is losing, but miraculously disappears when it is winning.
Oh boy someone  
lester : 9/23/2013 12:47 pm : link
get Buddy Ryan on the horn, that should take care of at least one problem...
Tom Coughlins  
beatrixkiddo : 9/23/2013 1:12 pm : link
over loyalness to his coaching assistants and veterans has finally caught up with this team. Overly predictable and no one is
ever held accountable; the excuse is always lack of
execution. Nope, the problem is we are stale. The league has this team figured out an the coaches are to stubborn to change.

The coaches all have a top down coaching scheme, they ignore their player strengths and play around their terrible schemes first most. We need big changes that I just don't see coming from this coaching staff, the players have lost faith and once thats gone its hard to restore.
i'm sure this has been said in the gamethread or one of the million  
pandy : 9/23/2013 1:24 pm : link
other threads.

the team has no fight and it starts from the top down. 4th and X down by 20 something points with 3-4 minutes go in the third and they punt?

Banks responds  
BigBlueinChicago : 9/23/2013 2:12 pm : link
I think "Chemistry" is BS  
KWALL : 9/23/2013 2:32 pm : link
Unless that means "better blocking and fewer turnovers".
some of these comments are completely moronic. A prime example:  
Victor in CT : 9/23/2013 2:36 pm : link
"over loyalness to his coaching assistants and veterans has finally caught up with this team"

Are you kidding? A stable coaching situation is a necessity for success. Furthermore, successful teams don't fire assistant coaches. And successful veteran players don't get replaced until younger, better, cheaper alternatives arrive to replace them. What All-Pro did the Giants cut due to "over loyalness" to existing players?
Sounds  
BigBlueCane : 9/23/2013 2:38 pm : link
like Baas is making friends.
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