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Draft Hypothetical: OL

Boy Cord : 9/23/2013 6:25 pm
I have no idea where the Giants will be drafting, but let's say they are in position to draft a stud LT and do it. Where do Beatty and Pugh line up when the draftee is ready to line up at LT?

Please. Don't kill me for asking a draft question in September. Yesterday was difficult on each of us.

I think Pugh is eventually going to be moved to G  
robbieballs2003 : 9/23/2013 6:28 pm : link
so that isn't the issue. If the LT is the best OL then you put him at LT and Beatty at RT. If Beatty cannot cut it at RT then you find somewhere else for him to go. With that said, it might make more sense to start the rookie at RT if Beatty is doing a serviceable job at LT. It may not be the rookie's best position but the line as a whole will be better.
Where is this Pugh to center stuff coming from?  
BlueHurricane : 9/23/2013 6:33 pm : link
Not saying it is incorrect but it seems to floating around an awful lot here.
I think Robbie said Guard.  
Boy Cord : 9/23/2013 6:39 pm : link
.
Who knows...  
rptl530 : 9/23/2013 6:45 pm : link
but if you've got an Ogden/Pace type then he plays LT from day one and Beatty moves to RT. If Pugh can project to G then he goes there.

The irony in that is that NYG would have basically drafted a G at 19, which is a no-no according to many here.
Who knows...  
rptl530 : 9/23/2013 6:45 pm : link
but if you've got an Ogden/Pace type then he plays LT from day one and Beatty moves to RT. If Pugh can project to G then he goes there.

The irony in that is that NYG would have basically drafted a G at 19, which is a no-no according to many here.
I  
AcidTest : 9/23/2013 6:46 pm : link
think with a little bulk, Pugh would be better at center, not guard. I'd like to see what Mosley and Brewer can bring to the guard positions.

You draft a stud LT if you can, and in that situation try and see if Beatty can transition to RT. But I have my doubts. He doesn't have the frame to be the mauler you need at RT.

I'd go after a mauler at RT in the draft, and get a guard in FA. The line would then be:

Beatty, Brewer, Pugh, Mosley/FA, high draft pick.
Acid...  
rptl530 : 9/23/2013 6:52 pm : link
that's a good point, re: Beatty at RT, but why is it that you HAVE to have a mauling RT?

It's 2013 and there's at least a decent chance there's going to be a coaching staff turnover.

Different scheme, different uses of personnel, perhaps.
Alright  
Eli owns all : 9/23/2013 6:58 pm : link
Here's the top 3 OT in this years draft

1. Jake Matthews Texas A&M
2. Taylor Lewman Michigan
3. Antonio Richardson Tennessee
also  
Eli owns all : 9/23/2013 7:00 pm : link
4. James Hurst North Carolina (Held his own vs Clowney)
5. Cyrus Kouandjio Bama
I've actually been thinking about this as well..  
drkenneth : 9/23/2013 7:00 pm : link
The 2014 draft is loaded with stud OTs:

Jake Matthews (6'5/308)
Cyrus Kouandjio (6'5 310)
Taylor Lewan (6'7 315)

Not sure Beatty is a RT, due to the fact he is not a great run blocker, and do you draft a RT high? (let's say top 10)...Seems like all 3 above are LTs...

Then there is Pugh, does he end up at G? Again, not a mauler. This team needs some meat up front. If so, we just drafted a 300lb G in the first round.

It's an interesting discussion, regardless if we go 4-12 or 7-9.
drk  
Eli owns all : 9/23/2013 7:02 pm : link
Bears just drafted Long pick after us for Guard and he's looking fantastic.
mathews or Lewan  
hd9009 : 9/23/2013 7:02 pm : link
would be nice picks. Im thinking they would go in the top 6 picks though. Its hard to think we end up that bad, but nothing wrong with the discussion
If Pugh  
Bleedin Blue : 9/23/2013 7:05 pm : link
Bulks up and moved to center

















How would he reach the ball with those short arms!
Hay oh!!!!!!
Matthews and Kowanaju can play RT  
jeff57 : 9/23/2013 7:06 pm : link
I don't know if Lewan has the build to play there. Pugh would move to guard.
We have a hypothetical OL now  
vibe4giants : 9/23/2013 7:12 pm : link
.
Kouandjio..  
Dunedin81 : 9/23/2013 7:15 pm : link
they would draft a guy whose name is harder to spell than Osi Umenyiora. Fuck.
.  
Will Allen/Peterson : 9/23/2013 7:23 pm : link
Part of the issue is that Beatty, who is signed through 2017, is going to be here through at least 2016 with the way his contract is structured. We have to hope that yesterday's alarmingly abysmal performance was an anomaly and not a sign of things to come, or else it will become yet another regrettable long-term commitment along the offensive line.

If we perform so poorly the rest of the way that we end up with a top 10 pick and take one of the premier left tackles, then we're left with a few options.

- If we draft Kouandjio, Matthews, or Lewan with the intention of plugging them in at left tackle for the next decade or so, then Beatty will instantly become the highest-paid right tackle in the NFL. The rookie wage scale would help lessen the blow since we'd be able to lock up one of those three at a very fair price for four years. But it's still not an optimal situation because of the money owed to Beatty through 2016 from a salary cap inefficiency standpoint (dramatic overcompensation for a starting RT).

- If Beatty ends up bouncing back and we end up with a top 10 pick in a draft that will likely be loaded with blue-chip talent, would it be wise to take a prospect who would be plugged in at right tackle for the foreseeable future instead of a potential impact defensive player at a more premium position? Depending on where our record stands at the end of the year, we could be in position for someone like Clowney (very unlikely) or Barr (also very unlikely) given how helpless we've looked thus far (worst point-differential in NFC, 2nd worst in the NFL).

- One of the more important aspects of our team to keep an eye on through the next 13 games is Pugh's development at right tackle. His versatility was lauded before the draft because of the belief that he could play any position along the line. But if he progresses to the point where we'd feel comfortable projecting him as a solid starter at right tackle for years to come, would you want to risk having him change positions to accommodate another player? Versatility was one of the more appealing aspects of drafting Pugh at No. 19 this past year, but preferably he'll be allowed to settle in at one spot early in his career.

- If we end up just outside of the top 10, then we could always trade down, acquire more picks, and address the line in the mid-late 1st. Erving, Richardson, and Hurst are among the tackles who could merit consideration in that area of the draft, while guys like Yankey and Richardson look like first-round talents at guard.
Will A/P  
Dunedin81 : 9/23/2013 7:30 pm : link
Are there any monsters on the interior OL? Last year was definitely an anomaly, but there have been some very good ones recently.
Dunedin81  
Will Allen/Peterson : 9/23/2013 7:43 pm : link
Stanford's David Yankey (an underclassman), Baylor's Cyril Richardson, Mississippi State's Gabe Jackson, and UCLA's Xavier Su'a-Filo (another underclassman) are a few of the best draft-eligible guards. Yankey looks like a sure-fire first rounder and is probably the best of the bunch.
They are paying Left Tackle money to Beatty  
Steve in South Jersey : 9/23/2013 7:52 pm : link
if they have move him from there then it is more bad news for cap management.
I think that Beatty is a lot better LT than he showed yesterday.  
yatqb : 9/23/2013 7:56 pm : link
To me the interior of the line is awful. I could see us drafting an OT, an OG and a LB in the first 3 rounds. I might even see whether I could land a #1 for Nicks so as to better our chances of improving the OL and LB corps...and I love Nicks. But if Eli doesn't have time to throw the ball, our WRs become less valuable to us.

We've got to make the OL a strength again or else we're fucked. Of course, we could draft one OL and sign another one or two in FA, but who knows how the extensions to Baas and Snee have affected our cap and ability to do so next offseason?
You can't pass up kids like Lewan and Matthews  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/23/2013 8:01 pm : link
For Beatty regardless of his contract status.

Beatty got 19 mil guaranteed and 12.5 up front. If he continues to play like he did then after next year his dead money would be 1/3 of the bonus I assume. Optimus or one of the other cap savvy people here can correct me. Heck. If people are willing to cut Baas with a cap hit over 5 million 4 million isn't unheard of if he can't cut it.

It's similar to KC where Albert is going to be gone after a year. Granted it doesn't cost KC any dead money but he was a former 1st rounder who, I believe they will let walk.

Take that stud LT. Let him play RT next year and if Beatty keeps stinkin up the place put him at RT in 2015. You can always cut him after training camp and save some money as an after July 1 cut too. Again I will defer to cap smart others but you don't pass on a potential stud LT for Beatty whose play is not nearly as good as people think. And that's been said way before yesterday's shitfest.

I don't think there's a Warmack or Cooper in next year's draft  
jeff57 : 9/23/2013 8:08 pm : link
But there will be some quality ones like Yankey and Richardson.
If Pugh doesn't get a run push against DE's  
Headhunter : 9/23/2013 8:10 pm : link
how is he going to get a push at Guard against DT's?
LauderdaleMatty  
Will Allen/Peterson : 9/23/2013 8:12 pm : link
Unfortunately, Baas is going to be here through 2014. Restructuring his deal to the point where cutting him would provide just $1,775,000 in cap savings for someone with a cap number over $8 million in 2014 was a monumental mistake by our front office.

And here's Beatty's contract figures:

William Beatty at OverTheCap.com - ( New Window )
WillAllen/Peterson. I agree. Obviously people  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/23/2013 8:21 pm : link
Are venting after the loss but plenty here have demanded he be cut and damn the cap. I just can't see the Giants cutting him and swallowing that much dead money with such little in the end savings.

Beatty I could see bing gone after 2015. That's so far in advance we do to even know if TC will still be around then truthfully. New coach could mean new offense. Does his skill set still fit. Also if the Giants do get a top 10 pick there may certainly be that top tier LT available when the Giants are up.

Who knows but I agree. Baas is going no where regardless of his play sadly until after next year.
WA/P  
Boy Cord : 9/23/2013 8:30 pm : link
I understand the dead money argument. However, the team will save his salary in actual cash flow and there is 1.775 in cap relief as you pointed out. If Baas is that bad I don't think it helps the locker room when someone is getting paid so far out of whack. I could be wrong. Another option is the Giants could ask him to cut his salary.

The bottom line is this OL is a disaster. I don't like the idea of playing or keeping players because of bad contracts. I feel like is one of the problems wih this team.
pugh and beattie  
hankb1126 : 9/23/2013 8:56 pm : link
after yesterday i would hope they line up in front of a firing squad
Goodness you're a fucking moron  
Dunedin81 : 9/23/2013 9:04 pm : link
...
I'm sure they believe that Pugh can move around on the line  
AnotherGiantsFan : 9/23/2013 9:17 pm : link
But my belief from the get go was they said this as a cop out if he doesn't work out at Tackle and it wouldn't look like a bust if they moved him inside.

There is absolutely no doubt he needs to beef up, and he should with an NFL weight training program. His short arms absolutely came into play this weekend when he was getting bullrushed and the defender got on him and controlled him with ease.

I actually just had this convo with a friend yesterday. I said if we were in like a top 5 position I'd prefer a guy like Barr in the first, and an OT or elite Guard in the 2nd.
I'm not sold on Lewan.  
yatqb : 9/23/2013 9:20 pm : link
.
I'd  
AcidTest : 9/23/2013 10:01 pm : link
cut Baas, even though the cap it is $6.45M I think. You clean house now, and take your medicine. Go with a clean slate, and get rid of Snee, Diehl, and Boothe as well. We will be restructuring contracts, and cutting or not resigning other players, so we should have the money. Yes, it sucks to take that kind of hit, but it's necessary IMO.
Baas is definitely gone next year  
sjnyfan : 9/23/2013 10:13 pm : link
Everyone worried about the restructure but (in this matter) the front office knew what they were doing. They saved enough cap space when needed to get under but still have the option to cut him when the new year starts in March of 2014. Yes there will be dead money but going into next year the Giants will have less than $400K in dead money and nearly $17 million in cap space before cutting anyone AND THAT'S IF the cap stays the same. Plus, they still save $1.775 million by cutting him. Again Baas will be gone, as well as Snee and probably Boothe.

If I had my wish depending on where the Giants pick I'd take LB's Ryan Shazier or CJ Mosley before an O-lineman because it's a good class and I think there will be Day 1 starters in the 2nd rd. But considering the situation I wouldn't be mad either. Either way both positions MUST be addressed.
I don't care who you bring in here, if Pat Flaherty is still around  
Mason : 9/23/2013 10:48 pm : link
then what are you really accomplishing? I find it hard to believe that all these guys brought in can't be more productive other than drafting at the very top of the draft. Whatever happen to player development? And for the love of God, why does an OL player have to be required to play all positions on this OL before they are allowed to take the field? I get it this coach and his HC like to be versatile but at the expense of player development at their natural position?

I get it, he is Giants royalty. Flaherty guys have had some great years, some good years, bad and some downright awful years. But I can't believe that everyone we are now bringing in is not capable of developing into a decent lineman. And the schemes, the blocking schemes haven't changed much at all over the years. No adjustments for speed and edge rushers other than throw a tiny halfback back there to try to help out the tackles. The game has changed but I'm not so sure if the talent on the field is only thing that we need to think about changing to keep up.

I don't think you cut Baas,  
Simms11 : 9/24/2013 9:22 am : link
but I do think you need to bring in solid competition and let the best center win. Baas could then be a back up, as he can also play guard in a pinch. If we still have his salary on the payroll why get rid of him. IMO, he would still be useful as a reserve.
C. J. Mosley, LB, Alabama  
PeterS : 9/24/2013 10:50 am : link
6-2/235 4.5 is a must. I would then go someone like Stanford OG David Yankey in round 2.
lets do a run down  
alligatorpie : 9/24/2013 10:59 am : link
david deihl- really a left tackle, may not be a good one anymore, if you say not, but that was his only good position as a player

beatty- left tackle

mosley - tackle

pugh - left tackle type, quick, good balance not a mauler

brewer- tackle but a shitty one

++++++++++++

Guards

snee- toasted

boothe- decent guard or was past few years

baas- might play some guard but sucks

herman- unknown

so...basically, we only have one current and proven guard on the entire roster?
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