A vow from Antrel Rolle

I didnt see any "At the end of the days.."

..........

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rogue. If nothing else, it'll be interesting.

when he makes it

?

Is he saying "Screw the scheme, I'm doing what I want."?

and hearing tuck in his post game presser on sunday it's clear certain guys care more than others.

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he's going to play ball the Antrel Rolle way? I suppose it can't be worse than the Perry Fewell way

I'm half expecting 'Trel to punch out Fewell on the sideline Sunday if he doesn't like the defensive call.

regarding the schemes PF deploys ... this wouldn't be a first, so the intent appears clear.

from the players. if the season is going to suck ass, at least that would be interesting

(half serious)

It really doesn't matter. Whoever blames the defense for this embarrassment is a tool. You can't expect a defense to play shutdown football when they are constantly on the field.

I know he is just talking, but is he trying to say that the coaches are trying to get him to play a less aggressive style? Are they trying to get him to play differently than he has played during his time in NY? Is he talking about them still playing him out of position, because I thought that had changed? I know, lot's of rhetorical questions with no answers.

we would have at best had a 0-0 tie.

I'm not a Fewell guy, but at least the D brought it in the first half of the three games so far.

He is the undeniable emotional leader of this defense. Other talkers on that side of the ball, not so much. Do we have an emotional leader on offense?

like "crazed dogs"!!!

my thoughts exactly!!!

If the players hate the message, it might be time (it is) for a new message.

To have Eli get all jay Cutler like on his oline.

These are overly seasoned vets who are playing injured. You don't blame the player for not simply being good enough at this point, you blame the person who put these guys in position to play even though they cannot.

They are asking him to play one way, and he is not comfortable with it. And now he's had enough and will do things his own way. Regardless of consequence. It will be interesting.

Major indictment of Fewell, IMO.

players start saying they will do their own thing out there because they get frustrated by the scheme.

Remember this from Pepper Johnson in 1992, as he got fed up with Rod Rust?

Quote:

"This will be a street-ball game," Johnson said. "We have to play street ball along with them. If that means a few guys got to freelance and play on gut feelings, you do. I got to figure guys are just going to start to call their own defense." .... When Ray Handley, the head coach, was asked about Johnson's initial complaints, he said he had not heard them. Rust was unavailable today, and in the past he would not have responded publicly to such complaints. The other defensive players smile, content to let the loquacious Johnson carry their fight. Today, they greeted him with cries of "Aye, aye, captain." Johnson intimated that the coaches and the players were on different wavelengths. "I look at our coaches as being white-collar workers and the players as blue-collar workers," Johnson said. "It's hard to explain that to Brazil. That's why I might do some things I'm going to do. We just want to win the game, whatever it takes. It's nothing that reflects on the coaches. It might not play any part at all. "I'm not just going out and blitz by myself. But just to make something happen, I might shoot a gap here and there. Rust and Brazil sometimes like that. As far as others playing off gut instinct, that's what we have to do. They can call certain defenses, and my responsibility might not be affected and I can do what I want. But if I have to cover a running back, I might just turn him loose, but I will make sure my safeties know. We're in a situation where I feel whatever it will take for us to win games, we do." No matter how revolutionary this sounds, Johnson repeated that this was not mutiny. "If stuff doesn't go the way we want them to go," he said, "I won't allow players to get in a group and say, 'Let's call our own stuff.' I'll take it to the head man and say we're not comfortable playing in this defense and we need to do something else. "When you have dissention in the ranks, it blows everything apart. Rust is in charge, but the one thing they can't take away from us is we're on the football field playing the game and we have to play. We're the guys who have to go outside after this and walk the malls. We're the guys who can't go out to eat or go to the opening of 'X' because we don't want the television cameras in our face and have people say, 'He's from the Giants and they lost, and if we show him we might lose ratings.' " Under the old defense, Johnson said, "We allowed the players to play." "Now you're expected to be in one place," he said. "We have to play like a robot and go here and go there. In a game, the offense knows where it's going and the defense doesn't know where it's going. If we sit back and guess, we're going to stay a step behind. If you make them play into your web, you're better off. We have stuff with which we could set the tempo. It's in fine print. The emphasis is on something else."

This quote, now over 20 years old, is pretty much what Rolle is saying now. Needless to say, by 1993, there was a new coaching staff in town.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/21/sports/football-giants-d-rebels-just-because.html - ( New Window )

Ralph Vacchiano ‏@RVacchianoNYDN 53m
Ouch. RT @ebenezersamuel: Hate to bring this up but for all Rolle's yapping, can't remember the last time I saw him make a meaningful play.

Just win the fucking game.

When you say you have not experienced anything like last Sunday. Were you not with the team last year for out 37-0 beat down in Atl? And that game had serious play-off implications.

Good call I immediately thought of Pepper and Rod Rust when I saw Rolle saying this..

Rust and Fewell I hate both their schemes

It was 34-0, but your point stands.

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this would feed to Banks' theory of chemistry problems in the locker room. People thought it was players pointing fingers at each other. What this would show is a disconnect more between the players and coaches.

Heh. I think he was just saying that he's going to go out there and give it 100% the only way he knows how.

Sometimes people are looking too hard for things that aren't there.

Rolle is full of it, and I suspect his teammates know it. He's an average player (at best) with a big mouth. His talk hasn't impressed the team up to now, and there's no reason to believe that they'll suddenly start responding to him as if he's Ray Lewis.

I can't figure out which

I didn't see the defense as being the root of the problem for the loss. Did it look like they may have taken a punch to the face as Banks' has said and not respond? Yes but these guys were on the field most of the game! It's the offense! If you were to look at this offense on paper, you'd think we'd be scoring thirty points a game, but the O-Line has negated any advantage we'd have! It doesn't take a genius to see where the problem lies.

They have been on the field for 3/4 of the time, so eventually their going to tire.

jibe with Coughlin's press conference on Monday? To me, it sounds waaayyy different than what the coach said.

Who cares.

at least one player in open revolt against fewell. These players have short careers, can't be held back by what they may feel is bad coaching. "if you want to cut me, cut me, but i can't look back and say i didn't do it my way"

is how i read that.

loves to talk. When was the last time he made a play? He's got to be among the most overrated Giants to ever put on a jersey.

Rolle's comments seem to be indicative of a crisis of confidence in the coaching staff, or at a minimum just Fewell. We don't really know how far it extends. Do others on the defense feel the same way? Does it just stop at Fewell or does it reach up to Coughlin? Also are there similar feelings on the offense?

To me its clear the players have no confidence in themselves and there is now a sign that there may be decreasing confidence in the ability of the coaching staff to right the ship. I kind of hope we are reading too much into this because it could get real ugly.

that would be gold

I first thought that Rolle might have been responding to Banks' call out that the players didn't care about getting their asses kicked. However, if you read that quote, he's basically saying he doesn't care what happens to him, he's going to go out there and play how he knows how to play and lead his way. If he was talking about playing with more emotion and fire....who would have a problem with that? Not the coaches.

However, if you look at it from the context of Pepper's comments during the Rod Rust era, they make much more sense. He's calling out Fewell. Remember back in 2011, he wanted to leave the team but Guinta talked him off the ledge? This isn't something that has come up after 3 losses. We are seeing old wounds now opened up because of the 3 losses.

The quote also omits the last thing he said..

Which was "We WILL get this thing turned around"

Not sure why he'd say that if he had no faith in the coach.

...that makes him a superstar by Giants defense standards.

RE: Rod Rust, another zone heavy read-react philosopher of a DC too ... there is truth that TC hired PF (a Tampa-2 disciple) and the personnel really isn't a fit.

Quote:

That isnt Antrel dep026 : 12:59 pm : link I didnt see any "At the end of the days.."

LOL. Often, My dad will say "To Quote Antrel Rolle, At the End of The Day......." before he makes a statement. I laugh every time.

Quote:

Mathias Kiwanuka: I have my dogs with me. We're ready to fight.

Might as well just hand us the Lombardi

in the secondary after three damned years of Fewell I'm not surprised at there being issues like these cropping up... going to be a long year.

Looking forward to the fireworks. It'll be the only entertaining part of the year for a Giants fan.

Or he's saying he's going rogue. Either way, it really doesn't matter. The offense sucks, which is making our defense shittier. Don't care what Rolle does.

LOL.. what scheme DOES fit this personnel? If you guys can name me some strong NFL defenses with linebackers as bad as ours, I'd love to hear them.

Tuesday.

does deck Fewell, will he get booed or cheered?

Fewell is about to catch a deep ball or not.

was the 2011 Giants linebackers that much better than the 2013 crop? It's more or less the same group, with Blackburn replaced by Connor and now with his injury, Herzlich.

He doesn't play on the offensive line.

Boley was still productive in 2011.

but they guy brings it every single game. He gives 100& percent effort He's been asked to play out of position for most of his time here and has done a good job in whatever role he plays. Does he get out of position sometimes...yes but I think he's a great asset to this team. I remember last year Justin Tuck kissing RG3's ass saying "He hated the football Gods for putting him in our division" and Rolle right away spoke up and said what had to be said "Respect your opponent but do not fear him". I don't want out team leader giving that much credit to the opponent because that trickles down to the rest of the team. I for one like Trels attitude and wish we had more guys had that same attitude on the field.

Matt.. 2011 Boley would be the best linebacker on this team right now. Blackburn would be too.

And neither player was even spectacular that year. That's how bad the linebackers are right now.

who could be relied on to keep edge contain. I can't say the same yet of this group, and that is exacerbating the already limited capabilities of the linebacker unit.

the biggest difference is knowing what they're doing. Boley and Blackburn were both trusted to make the calls on the field at various times. You can throw safety Deon Grant in there too.

None of these linebackers seem to have a clue. And what makes it worse is that Herzlich and Paysinger have even less business being on an NFL field than Boley and Blackburn did.

was also telling the Daily News before the game that his ankle and foot were bothering him but he was going to tough it out.

Big deal...so is just about every player in the NFL.

Fan are crazy. Some think the players just don't give a crap and when a guy like Rolle is as pissed we were after the game sunday its still not good enough.

down on Rolle make me sick. We have a defense led by a coordinator with a scheme that's passive; that reads and reacts; that plays soft zones and can't get off the field. We have a player who lays it all on the line every week. Who played last year with two shoulder injuries that would've kept you in bed and crying to your mommies and you come down on Rolle for trying to fire up his teammates. Losers.

Where all the overpaid vets get cut outright and we get to start fresh. I'm looking forward to this next offseason.

Really is a shame JR had to restructure Baas. Would of made cutting him a whole lot more palatable.

and the BBI NFL EXPERTS want to turn it into:

"the coaches are trying to get him to play a less aggressive style" - Ridiculous with nothing to support this statement.

"Definitely a shot at the defensive scheme" - Ridiculous with nothing to support this statement.

"players start saying they will do their own thing out there because they get frustrated by the scheme." - Ridiculous as though the above line was a fact.

"this would feed to Banks' theory of chemistry problems in the locker room." - Oh my!

"at least one player in open revolt against fewell." A revolt? Amazing!

"Rolle's comments seem to be indicative of a crisis of confidence in the coaching staff, or at a minimum just Fewell." - Very creative - A crisis of confidence. Great imagination.

Man oh man oh man! Some of you guys are just full of drama!

You're wrong. It is gonna end well. Either they find a way and turn this season around,and the fans get too cheer again, or 1/2 the team will be gone,including JR on down, and the next group of players/coachs will work together.
Except for a few organizations that don't get it, and spend 1/2 their time changing the players over a couple of seasons, but 1/2 way through then also change the HC and staff, thereby NEVER having players fit the schemes(or viceversa), aka Cleveland/Oakland/Jacksonville, in todays game it doesnt take long to turn a program around.
RE: 'Trel: The T2/Read-react D works only if you have a very good secondary and/or your D is quick. Uh, you can guess the rest. How much worse can this D, with vets like Jenkins, Patterson, Rogers, 'Trel, Kiwi, Tuck be going with instinct as opposed to what they do now?
If he is indicted the players, BJ needs to jump on this too, or gets cut and Eli gets killed.
If nothing else, he's forced JM/JR/TC to communicate amongst themselves and kill the tension.

Rolle is a nice player, but he by far is the highest paid defensive player on this team.

Do you think he plays like a Pro Bowl safety? Personally, I don't.

We're better off with him, but he doesn't make a lot of game-changing plays. The San Fran game last year was a rare occurrence.

Rolle shows more passion than the whole defense combined and some of you guys are attacking whether he's made any meaningful plays or not? Give it a rest. At least somebody is showing some passion? How was tucks passion in his post game presser? How about JPPs passion opening his trap sunday night on twitter calling out "fake ass giant fans"? Some of you guys are fucking comical, and thats putting it mildly.

He takes bad angles when he plays the ball deep. He always had a history of getting burned in ARZ.

I like him more as a strong safety. The best thing he can do is play the run and blitz.

and NOT indict the schemes (LOL):

"From this point on, I don't care what the situation may be, I don't care what the outcome is," an emotional Rolle said. "I don't care what the hell has to happen. If they want to kick me up from around here, from the New York Giants, then that's gonna be what has to happen. But I'm gonna play Antrel Rolle ball the way I know how to play Antrel Rolle ball, and I'm gonna lead the way I know how to lead.

Rolle added that he doesn't "give a damn what happens" with his future.

"That feeling that I felt last Sunday, I can never have that feeling again," he said. "I'm gonna do whatever it takes, anything it takes. And whatever the outcome is, it is what it is."

From sleeping pass rush to struggling offensive line to absent run game, it's seemed like a collapse on all levels for the Giants this September. But that's not what Rolle saw on Tuesday. The first-year captain said the Giants' issues go "deeper than X's and O's." On Monday, former Giants linebacking great Carl Banks had spent his own WFAN spot ripping into his old team for a lack of emotion and saying that players didn't seem willing to fight for each other.

Rolle said he agreed "200 percent" with Banks' blasts.

"Do we like each other in our locker room? I believe so," he said. "We like each other. WE're all friends with one another. But are we going out there and fighting for the guy beside us? Absolutely not. There is no way I can hide it, sugarcoat it, whatever you want to say.

"I think we need to do some serious soul-searching within the locker room and try to understand and try to form an identity of who we're gonna be, for one," he added. "Do we still love to play this game? That's No. 2. And third of all: Are we going to fight like hell to get out of the situation that we're in?"


Now, I don't see a single reference to any scheme, any coach, or any kind of revolt.

nicky.. people hear what they want to hear.

It would be like me saying that Hakeem Nicks' "I can't throw the ball to myself" quote was a direct shot at Gilbride's offense even though Nicks never said anything to actually support that.

He showed his passion on WFAN, not the field, right?

I'll play along, since you cited part of my posts. I gave some detail around a similar circumstance of a vocal leader calling out his coach for the defensive schemes, as Pepper Johnson did.

I also pointed out that Rolle has a history of issues with Fewell's system. I incorrectly said it was from Guinta, but it was actually Merritt. So here it is for you

Quote:

At 7-7 and facing a second straight season without a trip to the playoffs, Rolle was griping via text to the Giants� safeties coach about the defensive game plans and the lack of in-game adjustments. The key line in Merritt�s message (�You may get that chance to leave in the end ...�) was in reference to conversations Rolle had with the Giants� staff. He was unhappy with his role as the nickel cornerback. He was angry and considered Perry Fewell�s schemes inflexible. And for a few months by that point, he was hoping his time as a Giant would soon be over. �He kept telling us he wanted out,� Merritt told The Star-Ledger.

We also know that Kenny Phillips did not like the scheme and didn't want to return, even if his knee was not an issue. So there has been plenty of fire around the smoke when we see comments like this from Rolle. If Rolle is firing up his teammates, he might well be doing it similar to how Pepper was able to speak on their behalf, but he's doing it at the expense of Fewell's scheme.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/02/giants_antrel_rolle_finally_fi.html - ( New Window )

I was at the game, rolle was just fine considering he's on a defense that has a linebacker corp that wouldn't make the practice squad of the other 31 teams and a pass rush that is non existant. Should everybody follow tucks demeanor that he showed in his post game presser?

I'm talking about Rolle's heart. He lays it all on the line to win. Unlike Fewell who coaches scared and not to lose. And Rolle played out of position the last two years. Apparently that sacrifice has also been forgotten.

But it really makes no sense to me what he's doing. The secondary is the least of my worries right now. It's the offensive line, defensive line, and LBers. Rolle can talk his head off until the end of the day ('Trel shoutout), but they aren't stopping anyone if the offense continues 3 and outs every possession.

Especially the drama queens on BBI.


Matt in SGS:
I'm sorry but in no way do I see this as an attack on the schemes or any coach. It was well publicized what Carl Banks said about this team not showing any fight and Banks was correct. That's the topic and that's the theme of what Rolle is addressing. Everybody tries to interpret every sentence to fit their agenda and I clearly pointed out interpretations of Rolle's vow that really had no supporting evidence.

Hey, I don't like Fewell either. But I admit I don't have anything near the information the organization has to judge him so I can't. I don't have near the background on defensive schemes needed to judge the schemes and I don't see the plays with the clarity the coaches have from films while being able to discuss the plays with the actual players making those plays to be able to understand with any type of certainty as to what is going on. And frankly, neither does any other fan.

So many here act as though they could do a better job or at least do a better job at getting the personnel that could do a better job. That's just crazy! Very crazy.

Pepper also called out Reeves with his NY Broncos remark and was later off the team.

shows his passion on the field every single Sunday. You can question a lot of things about his play but effort is not one of them. And yes he showed his fire on WFAN as well. I don't see what everyone's problem is with his comments. I'm sick and tired of waiting for guys like Tuck who are supposedly the leaders of this team to step up and I think Rolle is seeing this as an opportunity to take on that responsibility.

that's a great tackler. Rolle has his flaws, but a defense with 11 Rolle types is going to be a great defense. Rolle is one of the few impact players on this defense. He's an emotional guy, a tough SOB, a guy that likes to lead and a guy that usually backs it up. I like Rolle and anyone that thinks he's "average", must watch a different game than I do.

ok, I see where you are coming from. I just think there is too much documented history with Rolle and Fewell, particularly with the frustration of 3 straight losses to dismiss that we are going to see players going off the script to make plays. Why else would Rolle be concerned about his future with the Giants?

Bubba,

Pepper's beef with Reeves was that he wanted him to replace Carl Banks as strong side OLB. The Giants signed Michael Brooks late in free agency when the Broncos released him and they played him at ILB next to Carlton Bailey. Pepper, in a contract year, felt that he would hurt his free agency chances playing in a role that would keep his productivity down. So he lashed out about it, hence the NJ Broncos thing. His problem with Rust was the scheme and that he was used to attacking with Belichick. His problem with Reeves was his contract.

which means he is rarely in a position to be a playmaker because Fewell doesn't deploy him in such a role.

Good for him for speaking out. The offense sucks, but the defense is uninspiring.

...the team is even in more trouble than you will ever know. Reminds me of Harry Carson when he went berserk over the losing ways of the Giants in his early years and he threatened to go overseas as a mercenary or something like that. Real crazy shit.

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It's interesting how we interpret things differently. You pointed out that you think Rolle may be talking about going off the script. "Why else would Rolle be concerned about his future with the Giants?"

I didn't read it that way. I'm not saying your interpretation here is wrong but I read it as though he was going to go balls out on the field with some real hard hits maybe bordering illegal hits and thought the concern might be more with the league and suspensions or fines than with the Giants.

keep in mind tom's #1 priority is everything remains in house so 99% of whats actually going on stays far away from the media. when u actually end up hearing about it from the outside its the tip of an iceburg

the players hate this scheme, kiwi, rolle, phillips among others have come right out and said it at times.

whats happening now started in 2011 when there was a mutiny and rolle almost quit. the players begged perry to take the rookies off the field and simplify - meaning not so many checks based on what the offense is doing.

this D has an endless library of checks on pre-snap movement which relies on everyone knowing the playbook and the NFL in general inside and out. To make all the adjustments on each defensive call, align properly and communicate it seamlessly on the fly is almost impossible. fewell agreed to just run the original call during that last 6 game stretch and the vets were able to stay on the same page and look good. (And they had JPP playing out of his mind.)

of course, PF wasn't going to stick w/that strategy as it was akin to using his scheme on training wheels. nobody in the professional ranks is going to stick w/that, nor should they

but of course, we've gone right back to his usual ways and it shows, the players hate his scheme.

should have read the thread first, u already said it

with 11 guys like Antrel Rolle.

Clearly he means he is done listening to the coaches.

That's a recipe for success in this league for sure.

since Rolle's initial slip in an interview, he has been a stellar interview and leader. That's nice talk, but i believe he will back it up. What I am wondering, though, is if this is a veiled snipe at Fewell.

Maybe I am reading too much into this, but when he talks about they can kick me out and I'm going to play the way I know how, etc. it sounds to me like he isn't happy with the scheme or his role or both.

Period. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken

he said is a bunch of athlete fluff.

Play harder, hate losing, be aggressive.

Compare that quote to any vocal guy on another team that just got destroyed - it's going to be the same thing.

DC.

He's obviously better than fewell

Rolle isn't the type of guy who would think into it enough to take veiled shots at Fewell. He's just a passionate guy and he got really fired up.

What should be evident is that Antrel Rolle HATES losing. Some players lose games and they don't react much. Sure, they don't like it.. they aren't happy.. but Rolle absolutely cannot stand it. It drives him nuts. So when you have a year start this way, the frustration mounts quickly for him and it gets very hard for him to keep his composure. Just like the Week 15 loss to Washington in 2011.. though he isn't handling this quite as poorly.. he gets pretty pissed.

Personally, I love the guy. Is he an all pro safety? Maybe not. But you can never ever say that Rolle is complacent or just wants to cash his check and go home. He genuinely loves the game of football. He loves to compete and he loves to win. He doesn't lose games and just brush it off and forget about it and go on with life the way a lot of other players probably do.

I wish more players were like him. I really do. Rolle could play on my team any day and I'd be thrilled to have him.

and a different story.. and a different situation..

BUT.. when Carson was sick of losing he wanted to be traded off the Giants.. however.. then when he realized he can't control those things and he was staying..

he decided to take out his anger on the field.. to just play football.. to focus everything in just playing his best football every Sunday..

and the rest is history..

that has played "great" this year....

Unfortunately, I think they have dug a hole so deep they can't climb out of.....

While we have had success against Alex Smith in the past, I think the KC defense takes our offense apart and gives Smith a short field...

Plus Andy Reid just seems to have a good game plan against us, when he has the horses....saddle up, it's going to be a bumpy ride....

passion and commitment to winning. I think it is clear his inference is that he is not being allowed to be as aggressive as he would like to be.

I am also happy that he is willing to put his future on the line to get the attention of those in charge to stop be so dam anal in your approach and let's get this fixed.

He is without a doubt on the Giants best ever FA acquisition.

I think if we were to get a new coaching staff, it is IMPERATIVE to get a staff that develops a scheme to suit the players strengths.

Clearly Antrel things otherwise.

I feel we're so thickheaded on offense and defense, we're trying to smash a round peg into a square hole constantly.