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Do people think Reese should be fired?

Jerry in DC : 9/25/2013 9:42 am
Just curious what the prevailing opinions are regarding actual decision-making for the GM spot. There's been a lot of criticism of Reese over the past few weeks, some of it rather vigorous, but I haven't seen many people actually calling for his head.

Say we win 5 or 6 games this year, do people want to go in another direction at GM?
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not yet  
GiantsFan84 : 9/25/2013 12:47 pm : link
he's never had a chance to pick his own coach for one.

but the untouchable luster for reese has faded if this team doesn't turn it around this year. this is no longer the team that people scout for the guys cut, this is the team scouting other teams cuts for players.

his seat is and should be a lot warmer.
no,  
section125 : 9/25/2013 12:51 pm : link
period.
I don't think anyone's calling for his head yet  
Greg from LI : 9/25/2013 12:51 pm : link
But he needs to start showing some major improvements this offseason.
SanFran  
T-Bone : 9/25/2013 12:53 pm : link
What GM hasn't had his 'hits and misses'?

The hits and misses of other GMs don't get mentioned because we're not fans of those other teams. As has been said her many a time...go take an in-depth look at the drafting history of all the other teams around the league and you tell me who's done THAT much better than Reese?

Honsetly, the very thought that his 'seat should be getting warmer' doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but I can at least somewhat understand where that may come from and don't have an issue with that stance. But anyone who thinks he should be fired...well, let's just say that's a guy I hope I never have to share a foxhole with.
That's 'honestly'...  
T-Bone : 9/25/2013 12:54 pm : link
and I'm with section125. My response to this question would be no...period.
and lest I forget....  
Greg from LI : 9/25/2013 12:55 pm : link
DAVID WILSON IS EXTREMELY TALENTED!!!
[IMG]http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/danpeterson/files/2013/06/BaghdadBob.gif[/IMG]

Experience? Really? Since when is RB a developmental position? When you draft an RB in the first round, you expect him to produce from day one. Instead, we get a bumper crop of missed holes, running into blockers, whiffing on blitzers, fumbles and tears.

When Wilson starts to produce against someone other than the 2012 Saints defense, I'll change my tune. Until then, I stand by my assessment.
oh for crissakes  
Greg from LI : 9/25/2013 12:55 pm : link
....  
SanFranGiantsFan : 9/25/2013 12:57 pm : link
What is the point of having a fan message board if you can't critique your team? We're 0-3. Do you expect people to be happy? Of course not. People here are mad, frustrated, puzzled, whatever...and criticizing Reese is just. Yes, he's a very good GM but he's not infalliable.
This is a Knee Jerk  
HakeemNicksatNite : 9/25/2013 1:01 pm : link
reaction type of question. We shouldn't even think of firing this guy.He is clearly a top 5 gm during his tenure.sure he hasn't had great results in every postion that we have mainly linebacker but who does?Are the Cowboys stocked at every position? how about the 0-3 Redskins or 1-2 Eagles for that matter.We are the only team to win anything significant in our division in roughly 20 years and at the first sign of trouble an asinine question such as this comes out of the wood work.When it's all said and done at worst this year will be a rough one and we will cut ties with the underperformers (mainly tuck,Webby,Diehl,Bass and possibly Snee)who's salaries outweigh their efforts and rebuild a competitive team again.For the record if some body asked me would I take 6 years of highs and low seasons with two super bowl victories smashed in between them I would take it every time.
Look except for the Patriots  
section125 : 9/25/2013 1:01 pm : link
and Steelers no team goes on forever without crashing after a few years. It is what the cap does. Even the Steelers are dying this year. You can only roll over your team so many times before the talent level dwindles to below average. The draft, the cap, the CBA all conspire to rotate the teams to the fore front. Reese has seen this. He is willing to sign a bunch of one year deals to get to the point that they can unload big numbers and start again. 2014 he gets a boat load of money.....
I never claimed he was.  
T-Bone : 9/25/2013 1:03 pm : link
But what do you think is a major reason why people are mad, frustrated and puzzled?

I'll tell you...because there's not one person on this site who's not SHOCKED at the fact that the team is 0-3 but also in the way they've looked in getting there. You don't think Reese is just as shocked? Someone posted a list of some of Reese's moves and for every move that turned out negative it was his fault but every move that turned out positive was 'luck' on his part. And you mean to tell me that's right? That's fair? Yeah sure...now three weeks into the season everyone can play arm-chair GM and say what THEY would've done differently but there were very few people on this site that didn't have a very strong opinion that the team would do well this season. Unfortunately, so far, that hasn't been the case. So we start discussing him being fired and whatnot 3 weeks into the season?
Is just silly to think.....  
HakeemNicksatNite : 9/25/2013 1:13 pm : link
It's very clear.... it's just time to reload.With an average draft and one quality free agent pick up we will be right back in the think of things. The only thing I do question is the coaching.I do see a shake up needed there.
From a talent perspective  
eclipz928 : 9/25/2013 1:14 pm : link
The Giants this year are equal if not better than the team that won the Super Bowl in 2011. Plain and simple.

There's a lot of blame to go around for this team's recent failures, but any blame that the GM is to share is definitely not near the top of the list.
T-bone...  
Hades07 : 9/25/2013 1:22 pm : link
...in fairness, the question was posed and people answered. Without counting I would say the overwhelming majority on this tread says he shouldn't. However, most feel he needs to change some aspects of what he is doing. If I were Reese, I would go about finding the scout with the best tack record of finding quality LBers at both the NFL and college level and task him with revamping the personnel at the LBer position. Because whatever they are doing with LBer evaluation hasn't worked in a long time.

At OL, he needs a more consistent influx of young talent.

In no way am I saying he is a poor GM. He has some holes in his game and he needs to figure out how to fix them. Right now he seems to be doing the same thing every year with those challenges and expecting different results.
I think the players we have  
Bake54 : 9/25/2013 1:24 pm : link
are just not good enough. Either through lack of talent, injury, or age. So the team needs to change how they approach getting better players because their previous way is failing them.

I'll leave the method up to the powers that be. This team needs fresh blood. I doubt they will fire Reese or Coughlin. But they need to make some major adjustments.
I seem to remember Eric saying something  
Dave in N.Westchester : 9/25/2013 1:34 pm : link
to the effect that "this is going to be a transitional year" for like 2-3 years now. there is a reason JR signed all these aging vets to 1 year contracts. Whether it works for this year or not, it will help with the cap for next year. The core needs to be cleaned out and rebuilt. We will judge the GM by how quickly and well he dces this. Crashing and burning was inevitable. The fact its right in Eli's prime is unfortunate. I'm more upset with the lack of competitiveness from the second half of last year on but when your core gets old before your eyes this is what happens.
Greg, good to see you addressing all my points (CB, S)  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 9/25/2013 1:39 pm : link
and backing your opinion up with comedy instead of facts.

Who expected him to start day 1? You, because he was drafted at the back end of the first round? Clearly the coaches did not agree with you? He didn't produce right away so he sucks? I know the Giants season looks bleak but does that mean we should throw rational thinking out the window.

Every problem Wilson has that you are claiming makes him untalented is a correctable mistake commonly made by young backs.

You are ignoring facts when you say he is not talented. His speed, power for a small guy, and "wiggle" make him talented. There is no denying it.
The man is considered one of the best in the business  
montanagiant : 9/25/2013 1:47 pm : link
By the media, ex-players, coaches, and after we have a 0-3 start this question gets asked??

Just a silly thing to even consider.
At least Greg found something to be happy about  
David in LA : 9/25/2013 1:48 pm : link
.
Dave  
JonC : 9/25/2013 1:49 pm : link
Well said, and good to see you posting.
Jerry Reese won't be fired from his job as GM  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/25/2013 1:53 pm : link
It's takes a lot to get a GM fired. He hasn't even had a chance to hire a coach yet.
Hades07  
T-Bone : 9/25/2013 1:57 pm : link
Like montanagiants said...I just don't think the question should even be asked at this point. I don't think it should even be a question in anyone's mind. Not after an 0-3 start.
Reese  
stretch234 : 9/25/2013 2:13 pm : link
Look at Newsome draft and tell me he is better than Reese

2003 - Suggs-1,K. Boller-1, M. Smith-3, J. Johnson-4, O. Mugheli

2004 - D. Edwards-2, D.Darling-3,

2005 - M. Clayton-1, D. Cody-2, A. Terry-2, J. Brown-4

2006 - H. Ngata-1, C. Chester-2, D. Pittman-3, D. Williams-4, PJ Daniels-4

2007 - B. Grubbs-1, Y. Figures-2, M. Yanda-2, L. McClain-4

2008 - J. Flacco-1, R. Rice-2, T. Gooden-3, T. Szibkowski-3,
O. Cousins-3, M. Smith-4, D. Hale-4

2009 - M. Oher-1, P. Kruger-2, L. Webb-3

2010 - S. Kindle-2, T. Cody-2, E. Dickson-3, D. Pitta-4

2011 - J. Smith-1, T. Smith-2, J. Reid-3, T Doss-4

The TE's & Webb are good, but miss more time than they play. He caught lightning with M. Birk and McKinnie off the scrap heap

His best pick could very well be his 1st in Suggs
T-bone you are struggling with  
Hades07 : 9/25/2013 2:17 pm : link
Should an Is. Not uncommon. No reasonable fan Should ask that question. Since we both know most fans are not reasonable, we should know that this question Is going to be asked.

The fact that the sentiment seems to be he shouldn't be fired shows this group of fans is a bit more reasonable than most.
Hades07  
T-Bone : 9/25/2013 2:23 pm : link
And you are introducing qualifiers when there shouldn't be any. Also not uncommon.

No fan, reasonable or not, needs to ask this question after an 0-3 start.
LOL, ok fair enough  
Hades07 : 9/25/2013 2:32 pm : link
You have more faith in people than I do. I was expecting to see a bunch of "Bench Eli" threads on Monday, so this thread and the question it asks doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Hades07  
T-Bone : 9/25/2013 2:42 pm : link
I'm glad you were able to take that last post in the spirit it was meant and not think I was trying to be wise guy...well, maybe I was a lil bit but not too much because I like ya. Don't get me wrong, I know and understand that fans are going to overreact because of the disappointment of an 0-3 start and are looking for heads to roll...and when it comes to some members of the coaching staff, I'd agree with them (even though that goes against my own stance). But, and this is just my opinion, there are two men who deserve a chance to fix this team and that's Reese and Coughlin...no matter how this season turns out...and it just burns me up to think that there even MAY be some people out there that really think it may be a good idea to give up on these two guys and we're not even a quarter through the season yet.

We get mad at the players for seemingly quitting on the field and yet are very quick to quit on the GM, coaches and players at the drop of an 0-3 start. I just hope the GM, coaches and players have more fight in them than some of these 'fans'.
Reese is a young GM. I think he will learn from his mistakes  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 9/25/2013 2:50 pm : link
and because of this he will become a better GM.

Unless he is blind it is evident that certain units could have used more attention. Hindsight is 20/20 and he will learn from this.

Why fire (or even consider firing) a young promising GM when he makes his first major mistakes? The logical conclusion would be in this situation most young GMs would learn a lot through a season like this.
Newsome's Drafts  
ghost718 : 9/25/2013 3:00 pm : link
There are at least 2 good or solid players in most of those.

Sometimes more
I don't really know  
santacruzom : 9/25/2013 3:01 pm : link
how player acquisition/retention and personnel prioritization truly works on the team. But I doubt Reese makes all such decisions unilaterally and tell his coaches, "These are the players I'm getting you peons. Now coach them. If you have a witty retort you'd like to employ then by all means, talk to the hand." As someone who's not the X's and O's guy his coaches are, I'm pretty sure that a huge reason why he favors drafting D-linemen over LB's is because his coaches want it that way.

They were joint successes before, and it's a joint failure now. I think the entire organization needs to scout itself a bit more competently.
But why let a few  
Hades07 : 9/25/2013 3:03 pm : link
backwards thinking people "burn you up"?

Look at the game day threads and you see how knee jerk many are. There were people on the game day thread of the last Super Bowl calling for Gilbride's termination and people said TC lost the team. It's insane. But don't let it bother you.

I live in Phily. If this was an Eagles board there would be 30 threads on firing the GM now before the next game because they would genuinly think it would fix the problem.

Maybe my perspective on reasonable fans is a bit skewed because of where I live. But this place on it's worst days in like a MENSA convention compared to what I am exposed to on a daily basis.
if Reese is the one  
santacruzom : 9/25/2013 3:09 pm : link
who's mostly responsible for the extensions we keep handing out to players whose services we should enthusiastically extend... well, that's definitely a tactic that needs to be reconsidered.
services  
santacruzom : 9/25/2013 3:09 pm : link
we should NOT extend.
Mr. Steelers Land  
Hades07 : 9/25/2013 3:09 pm : link
I completely agree with your position.
Regarding corners, we're in the same ballpark  
Greg from LI : 9/25/2013 3:27 pm : link
I think you value them more than I do, but they've played relatively well as a group. You have a much higher opinion of Mundy than I do. He can hit, but he can't cover to save his life, and Rolle has always been more talk than performance. He's solid but he's not a playmaker.
What Britt said  
GiantTuff1 : 9/25/2013 3:29 pm : link
in the first response of the thread is where I stand, so no.

It's difficult to completely evaluate Reese without seeing his fingerprints on a hand chosen coaching staff. And since Marc Ross came on, who's to say he shouldn't shoulder some of the purported blame.

I would hope, if it ever came to a coaching change, Reese would go for a young, aggressive, and most importantly flexibly minded coach willing to tailor systems and gameplans to the strengths of the players (and weaknesses of opponents) rather than, "Hey this is what Warren Moon ran 25 years ago, do this and don't veer off course, well, cause I know better."

I'm being over the top and half joking in the last sentence, but the point is not to smash the round peg into the square hole because your married to your offensive ideology.

After all, that's the kind of rigid mentality that starts wars of many scales - countries on countries, teams with themselves, and players with their confidence.
I agree  
santacruzom : 9/25/2013 3:56 pm : link
if a coaching change *is* down the pike, I really hope it'll be either a young, promising coordinator or someone who's had great success at the college level. But Coughlin's tenure might validate their "hire the fogeys" strategy.
Reese's mistakes and shortcommings are now clear...  
Reb8thVA : 9/25/2013 4:23 pm : link
not only to us but him as well. Instead of focusing on them now, we should start looking at how he fixes them. I said in the past that I think he is very good at acknowleging his mistakes. In short, the CC Brown fiasco turned into Antrel Rolle. I'm ready to move on and judge him by what he does going forward to fix the mess.

I've been very hard on Reese in the past an almost a knee jerk way to counter the "In Reese we trust mantra." But I do think he will fix this mess, just not this year.
Maybe..  
prdave73 : 9/25/2013 6:34 pm : link
Look how he left the cornerback, oline, and Linebackers positions?? It's very bad and I said it before the start of free agency.. It's bad, period..
Re: AcidTest & rant  
Neverend : 9/25/2013 9:20 pm : link
i'd like to add that he didn't only get lucky with steve smith. he also wanted to draft Jeremy maclin, but the deal collapsed at the last second because of the eagles trading up. maybe in that trade they would've given the lions the second 2nd round pick (that got beatty), and we'd be stuck with maclin and sintim

whom btw, the giants had a 1st round grade on. they easily could have took sintim at 29. disturbing.
Coaching?  
Marty866b : 9/25/2013 9:51 pm : link
Coughlin is a better coach then Reese is a GM.
unreal  
Dylan fan : 9/25/2013 11:53 pm : link
The OL sucks, Reese should draft 1-2 OL in the 1st 3 rounds every year to retool. The LBs suck, Reese should draft a LB in the 1st 3 rounds every year (or, some say, in the later rounds, but later round LBs generally suck no matter what team drafts them). The run D sucks, Reese should draft a DT in the 1sxt couple of rounds. Tuck & (Osi) are/were done, Reese should draft a DE high. The TEs suck, Reese should draft a TE high (or maybe shell out $5 million per for Bennett?) It's a passing league, Reese should draft a CB high every year. How many 1-3 round picks do all the BBI experts think there are each year? How many awesome players @ each position are there that are worth drafting late in the 1st round when the Giants pick every year?
It isn't all Reese's fault....  
dguy901 : 9/26/2013 9:25 am : link
virtually everyone slammed Reese for grabbing Pugh #1 while screaming for a LB or DT. Guess what, that selection doesn't look so bad now, the rookie has been schooled by fire and hopefully hit the proverbial "I get it" point now! I said it in other forums, Eli had 5 seconds numerous times and couldn't get the ball to anyone, how many of the sacks were due to coverage? Still, the Nassib pick befuddles me. JMHO.
Acid Test said...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 9/26/2013 9:36 am : link
[quote]I also disagree with his apparent philosophy that mid to low round draft picks should be used to find great athletes, even if they have limited football experience. The theory is that they can then be "coached up." Guys like Robinson and Taylor are his latest attempts in that regard. For the most part this hasn't worked out. I'd like to see these picks used for more established football players, even if they don't have "wow" workout numbers. The NFL graveyard is littered with great athletes who couldn't play. This is football, not the Olympics.[/quote}

I agree with this. We are not drafting FOOTBALL PLAYERS. Sometimes, the best football player is not the fastest. If Ronnie Lott were 21 again and was at the combine, the Giants would never draft him based upon what they see on the surface physically. What you cannot measure is a players football IQ and his competitive nature. Show me a DB who is really fast but does not know where to be, and I will show you a DB who gets himself out of position...really fast. The same can be said for every other position. What is the point of having a speedy guy at LB if he does not know enough to contain the edge on a run play? Just look at Belichik. He finds FOOTBALL PLAYERS. The guys he has had on that patriots team over the years have often not been players that would stand out on a physical stat sheet. They must have been one of the only teams going after Welker from Miami. Their defense has been made up of players who were SMART and tough. Their RBs have not been stellar but they make plays. Faulk, woodhead, etc... all would kill you one way or another and tough smart players.

I seriously question our philosophy and also our ability to find NFL "football players".
Coughlin is a rock solid coach in some areas  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/26/2013 10:08 am : link
with obvious flaws in others.

He's excruciatingly prepared, he's obsessive to the point of illness, but he's also stubborn as a mule and the same guy who hired Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan and refused to get rid of them until he caught organizational pressure from above when it was obviously not working.

Continues to rely on trusted veterans who don't return that trust, made the poor mistake of allowing the Matt Dodge experiment run it's course, will not be moved to touch the offense even when the Quarterback is shell-shocked from being sacked and just giving up on plays so as to not be hit again.

TTH  
Hades07 : 9/26/2013 11:41 am : link
Didn't Sheridan only last one season as DC?
He did, but given Tom's track record with his coaches,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/26/2013 11:46 am : link
I don't believe it was his decision to let him go at the end of the year.

He'd never fire a handpicked guy who'd been part of the coaching staff just based off one year no matter how bad it was.
Good post  
TMS : 9/26/2013 11:51 am : link
Ericj. Reese and Ross look at measurable s and athletic skills that they assume will turn into FB skills. Easy to do that but they are unable to pick guys who are FB players and have the heart and desire to make that happen. Guys like Austin, Barden etc who want NFL $$$ but do not want to pay the price or have the desire to be players. Get a FB guy in here and get rid of the so called super scouts.
TTH  
Hades07 : 9/26/2013 12:28 pm : link
That is a fairly large assumption based off of zero actual knowledge and only one other given example. One could easily conclude that he learned from the Lewis situation and didn't want to repeat it.
I would submit Hufnagel as the other example  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/26/2013 1:03 pm : link
but I can see how you'd disagree with that.
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