Do people think Reese should be fired?

Not at all. I think the members of the coaching staff should get a hard look, though.

I think Reese deserves the right to bring in the next, his first, coach of the team before he's put under the magnifying glass.

He needs to stop being so cute with his picks trying to uncover gold where there is none, and stick with picks that are further along at the same level and could produce for us sooner than later.

but he should definitely be on the "list" People also need to be reminded that 2007 was not his team either.. but more of Accorsi's team

shouldn't be fired. I think at the core he is very good GM, working under the cap and having a highly paid QB he has done what he could. I don't blame him for draft picks, some pop..some don't. I think we have a very poor DC and a very average OC.

but he has to up his game like everyone else. Everyone is underperforming lately...

I think he is one of the best GM's in the NFL. I have a feeling Coughlin is just as much to blame about the current state of the team with his insistence on keeping vets like Snee, Diehl, Tuck, and Webster.

Up in round one more. We have too many mediocre players and no great ones. His third and fourths never pan out. I'd rather one very good player than three avg to below avg players.

but there are alot of way overpaid underperforming players on this roster and that is on JR. The clearance rack and bargain basement shopping this off season was comical.

Reese makes the draft board yet the whole organization votes on the picks.

And tired of him drafting on potential instead of production.

But drafting players that fit the needs, and sooner, than hopes of 'projects' that have a low pan-out likelihood; as well as fitting the coaching schemes, and not Sintim-types.
It'd also help if veteran loyalty, part of Giants history, and failures, would be eliminated or significantly reduced, so as not to hamper him working within the salary cap by overpaying guys that have little football life left in them.
In JR I still trust.

He's had a pretty good run of low-prioritizing OL. Apparently you CAN get away with it at least for a while. It works until it doesn't. And now it doesn't. He's not blind, I fully expect him to adjust in April (or is it May now?). He might deserve to be skewered more for the coordinators and coaches he employs, however.

He was a poor hire, imho. then replace Gillbride after this year,

we need a better system, I am no expert, but I see week after week, WR's running wide open in other teams games and our WR's always TIGHTLY covered and Eli having to squeeze things in there, its aint working

Get me Denvers OC

But he needs to regroup this coming offseason with more cap room and clear out the veterans.

Taking a different approach in the draft might be needed as well.

I think any coaching decision will be made by ownership.

They have spent a lot of picks and resources at LBer (more draft picks at LB than any other position) and have only Williams to show for it. They need to fix how they scout and grade the position. They need to rely on work-out numbers a bit less than they do right now and gambling on potential. They need to spend more resources on the OL. Taking one OL within the 1st 3 rounds of every draft will keep a consistent influx of young talent at the positin and will prevent situations where everyone is old at the same time. Any team can be competitive if they have a great OL, even it the skill players are poor. The best skill players in the world can do nothing without blocking.

He just needs to learn from mistakes and improve.

but facts are facts: he inherited a top coach and QB and the only unit on this roster that would be considered above average right now is the WR's.

Seriously? The Giants have had exactly zero losing seasons and two SB wins under Reese. Even *if* they tank this year, that is remarkable run. He's been one of the most successful GMs in the NFL during his time here. Firing Reese would be just about the stupidest thing that the Giants could possibly do. There sure have been some strange posts around here this week.

But the In Reese We Trust thinking is foolish thinking because he's made so many mistakes on personnel lately.

tried to take shortcuts with the OL and at LB and it is biting him hard.

dump Ross.

Hell no......this is what he gets paid to do.

He'll be the primary person responsible for getting us out of this mess, if it indeed turns into a mess.

The coaching staff, however, needs a long hard look.

It's essentially been 10 years with the same voice........

said, he needs to up his game.

However, if this team tanks enough to warrant a coaching regime change, would you trust Reese is going to up his game in making the switch?

Wasn't one of the Mara's a candidate for his job back when he got it, and isn't that Mara still a bigwig in the management team? Seems to me I recall a power struggle (more of a disagreement amongst the powers) a couple years ago? Regarding Coughlin? That whole beast could rear it's ugly head if things go south the rest of the year. Or maybe I'm misremembering a whole bunch of stuff.

players tells the tale.

I would think about replacing Marc Ross though. However, if we go into the off-season operating under the same philosophies regarding the OL and LBs that would seriously bother me.

If he hasn't done so already put the coaching staff on notice, if this doesn't get turned around in a hurry there will be consequences.

However he should be put on notice as well for some of the poor decisions regarding FA signings or lack there of, and of course the retention of aging Veterans who's production doesn't maych there salary.

But that seat should be getting warm. Like Reb, I wonder if Marc Ross is more of the culprit than Jerry himself. When Jerry took over draft scouting under Accorsi, the horrid drafts of 1998-2002 turned into the terrific drafts of 2003-2007. Since Reese moved up to GM and Ross took over the draft, the drafts have gotten mighty spotty.

And I think it's getting time for wholesale coaching changes.

assess is the commitment to vets though I suspect that is more on TC. Assuming NYG has a top 15 pick or better, plus several vets leaving with big contracts then 2014 will serve as a decent measuring stick.

Of all the free agency signings he must regret Baas and how he deals with the OC position in 2014 bears watching. If the dead money number for Baas is $ 6.4M (I think that is correct,not sure)then it's a tough call releasing Baas.

Hopefully, he asserts some leverage with TC to replace Fewell as DC.Fix the interior OL, get a true MLB ( even one that plays only 2 downs)and replace Fewell and I see this team as very competitive...even if Nicks leaves. I think Joseph will be a much easier sign than Nicks.

They need a complete overhaul at LB. Most of these guys wouldn't make any other NFL roster.

the patterns of his previous success and needs to adapt to this current adversity. This doesn't concern me in the least because if he is the GM that we think he is then he is capable of re-inventing himself.

Mentioned this on another thread:

Quote:

assess is the commitment to vets though I suspect that is more on TC.

Part of the blame on composition of the roster has to belong to TC. I still hold Reese accountable, but he didn't act alone there.

This roster has too much talent to fault Reese all that much. There are definitely holes, but every roster has holes in the parity era. Our offense simply has not performed to it's talent level.

but his drafting genius at this point is more supposed than real. He is not a top five GM IMO. He is not Ozzie Newsome. Not even close. I have strenuously defended Reese in the past as such, but it's clear that was wrong.

There is no question he has had some successes in the draft, but there are a lot of question marks. Consider the following:

(1) Aside from Nicks and Beatty, he blew the entire 2009 draft, including a second and two thirds, on players like Sintim, Beckum, and Barden. Even Nicks was a bit lucky, as Reese admitted he really wanted to draft Darious Heyward-Bey. A lot of his other drafts are underwhelming.
(2) Marvin Austin over Steven Paea.
(3) David Wilson over Cordy Glenn.
(4) Got lucky with Steve Smith, because he really wanted to draft his teammate Dwayne Jarrett.
(5) Got super lucky with Victor Cruz.
(6) Pugh over Kyle Long. The jury is still out on Pugh, but right now, Long is a better player. Pugh is also a "technician," not the mauler most teams prefer at RT. In all fairness to Reese, a lot of RTs, including Fisher and Joeckel are struggling.
(7) Despite Beatty and Pugh, has largely neglected the OL. I and many people here would have been thrilled with Osemele for example.
(8) Total neglect of the LB position.
(9) Signed and then restructured David Baas, giving us real cap problems going forward.

I also disagree with his apparent philosophy that mid to low round draft picks should be used to find great athletes, even if they have limited football experience. The theory is that they can then be "coached up." Guys like Robinson and Taylor are his latest attempts in that regard. For the most part this hasn't worked out. I'd like to see these picks used for more established football players, even if they don't have "wow" workout numbers. The NFL graveyard is littered with great athletes who couldn't play. This is football, not the Olympics.

Much of our current problems are because we don't have enough young players ready to step up for the aging veterans. That is on Reese and Ross. What is really concerning is that we are wasting Eli's best years.

A good start would be for Reese to stop drafting athletes instead of established football players, but I doubt that will happen.

I would drop his overall grade at this point to a B-. Not enough to get fired, but there are real concerns. His leash is certainly a lot shorter than it was even twelve months ago.

no, but I don't have any problems with him being roasted.

I believe the 2007 draft was his last if I'm correct. 2008-2013 haven't been very good. But he no longer runs the scouting. Does anyone think that Jerry Reese will pick the next Giants coach if he lasts longer than the current one?

Quote:

"(Mara) is a very talented personnel evaluator who quite frankly could be the GM here or for any other team in the league," Reese said in an email from Mobile, Ala., where he's scouting college players at the Senior Bowl. "It's nice to have someone in your corner of his caliber to bounce things off of." In Mara's perfect world, he would be bouncing things off of Reese, not the other way around. Chris Mara wasn't just Wellington's son or John's brother. He wasn't merely promoted up the franchise ladder because he was born on the 5-yard line, first and goal. Chris Mara was passed over for Giants GM, but has still been a key part of Big Blue's success. At the time of Ernie Accorsi's retirement as general manager, Chris Mara had been a scout for Parcells' two Super Bowl titles and had established a track record outside the organization. He'd spent eight years running his own independent scouting service for more than a dozen NFL teams, and he'd served as a successful GM of the New Jersey Gladiators of the Arena League. Mara had also been vocal in support of the Eli Manning trade, among other personnel moves gone good. But the Giants' 50-50 co-owners, Steve and Jonathan Tisch, didn't want a member of their partners' family as GM, if only because they believed it would've made that GM bulletproof. Chris Mara was crushed. He'd rejected opportunities in other places, and could've landed the GM job in Atlanta, only to be bypassed inside his own family's business. "I've gotten over it," he said, "and I don't look back anymore at what could've been. I'm all in with Jerry Reese. We work together very well, and I think he respects my opinion as much as anyone in the room. "Jerry's been great. I try to get out of his way and let him do what he has to do to, but Jerry and I disagree over players all the time. He doesn't want me to tell him why he's right, but why he's wrong. It's very healthy. It's why we have a very good working relationship." In assuming the role of team player, Chris Mara said he is following the lead of his ego-free father, Wellington, an approach that Reese appreciates more than anyone knows. "Chris Mara has done nothing but treat me with respect," Reese wrote, "from the time I joined the Giants as a young scout until now. ... I really admire him for that because he owns the team and he really doesn't have to do that. But he's a true pro and only wants what's best for the Giants, period."

Chris Mara eyeing a different trophy - ( New Window )

Your not gonna see a whole lot of Yeah,get rid of him and his turtleneck collection with an 0-3 start.Because of the 2 Superbowls,In Reese We Trust,and all that stuff.

I know one thing,I'm not sure I trust this guy anymore with a high pick in the draft.If some overrated prospect starts to slip,he might start having visions,and not football ones.

Receivers? You bet. QB? Sure. Where else do the Giants have a lot of talent? Certainly not at RB, OL or TE. On the defensive side, I guess you could say DT is slightly above average. Until/unless JPP starts playing like the guy from two years ago, the DEs are nothing special. The LBs are a horror show. CB is fairly good, but is Prince one of the ten best at his position? Safeties are average at best.

So where's all the talent?

Reese isn't responsible for this poorly coached team. The team is talented as any they face. Yet every time they make the playoffs it takes a miraculous run at the end of the season. The Giants problem ain't talent. Its coaching

and they don't seem to know how to win their individual battles. So where do you go with that?

finding jobs for friends and family members.

Served them well in the 60's and 70's.

.

...if we miss the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years, I'd love to hear the argument to keep him (as well as the entire coaching staff).

To think that we now have a franchise QB in his prime, just waiting to get killed (by not putting an emphasis on surrounding him with a top 5 OL)...is totally unacceptable in my opinion.

This weekend Eli will see a pass rush like nothing he's seen this year so far. If Eli suffers a potential career ending injury by somebody running over our OL with a clean hit...Reese doesn't get a pass.

Quote:

(8) Total neglect of the LB position.

This is factually inaccurate. Decisions made with regards to the LBer position have been poor, but it has not been neglected. To me, that is the biggest concern. The Giants have spent a lot of draft picks and FA dollars at the position and have nothing to show for it. More LBer picks than any other position under Reese. Plus trading a pick to get Rivers. FA signings every off season. Yet every year the LBers are terrible and the only draft picks used that have anything to show for it today are Williams and Rivers.

DeOssie was 4th round, Kehl was 4th round, Goff was 5th round, Dillard was 4th round, Greg Jones was 6th round, Williams was 7th round, Herzlich was a UDFA.

He is a good GM. He isn't that great "In Reese We Trust" GTM that BBI makes him out to be though. He is human and makes mistakes. He is a good GM so keep him.

Draft hasn't been stellar in terms of depth, but he's a great GM. He'll be here for the long run and we're lucky to have him.

but if he doesn't change his attitude towards the linebacker situation and do a better job of retooling the offensive he will start to feel the heat if he isn't already. He said it himself that the performance on the field last year was unacceptable. Well, his performance the past few years has not been totally acceptable either.

change in philosophy regarding evaluations of linebackers and tight ends.

if the GM and ownership broached the subject of jettisoning Perry Fewell but were rebuffed by TC...who is at times loyal to a fault. We'll probably never know the truth of that one.

JR has failed to address the atrocious linebacker play we've been enduring since the departure of AP. That has to change. We'll also probably never know if the scouts responsible for our multiple misses at the LB position the last five years have been held accountable.

The Nassib pick was a headscratcher for me as it is I'm sure for many fans. We had glaring holes at LB and interior OL to address. A QB in Round 4 is a luxury we couldn't afford. Philosophically it was a mistake.

That aside I think JR has done a very good job with this team since becoming GM.

and give the Job to John Mara. Reese and Ross should go. We need a new perspective on the draft, FA and the coaching staff. We have gotten stale and complacent. It is time for changes while ELI is still healthy.

but it's time to re-invent his approach.

PF appears a poor fit for our D personnel with his Tampa-2 related schemes. With an open revolt within sight, it's time to make a change.

Drafting has slipped with Ross in charge of scouting, and Reese's picks have slipped in terms of production and quality.

The UFA choices have been pricey, and with mixed results that eat up big chunks of cap space.

The question of complexity with the offense is one I wrestle with, but I'm damned tired of seeing it go entire games without doing much, while lighting up defenses at other times.

But he's gotta really amp his game. His handling of the OL borders on malpractice. You cannot have your Franchise behind an OL of this caliber.

And I'm confused why you continually mistake lack of experience for lack of talent at RB.

Wilson is extremely talented.

You also underplay how well the secondary has played. Barring injuries 4 CBs have play good to great. Mundy has filled in well for Brown. Rolle has been the most consistent defensive player since he got here. (I would knock Rolle's playmaking. He should be making more big plays.)

You seem to exaggerate the lack of talent because of the current predicament the team is in.

are giving Reese too much blame for the losing and too much credit for the wins when in all likely hood Reese and the entire regime are working together, for better or worse. People are killing Reese for the OL but no one wants to get on Coughlin? Why? Isn't it possible that Coughlin signed off on this OL? That he signed off on Snee? Baas? Boothe?

Fact is, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. We don't know if Reese force fed this roster to Coughlin but I think it's fair to say that heading into week 3, Reese wsan't the only guy who fucked up here. The OL looked shaky but did the staff alter the game plan? Did they go with more quick step drops? Less downfield passing? Nope...they went balls out! Deep drops all day baby.

The entire staff fucked up thus far.

You mean Peyton? Interesting idea.

before half off BBI even knew he wasn't with the Giants anymore.

I would guess that about 25-27 of the NFL teams would love to have the type of "failure" jerry Reese has had with the Giants.

LMAO!!!!!

After the first 0-3 start EVER under his watch?!!!

What's comical is how everyone has been so quick to turn their backs on some of the players and coaches on this site. Everyone on this site likes to talk a lot of shit about a guy being tough and sticking things out and not going into a shell at the first time adversity is shown...and yet many of those very same damn people are the ones contemplating getting rid of the two men MOST responsible for the team's recent Super Bowl victories (Reese and Coughlin).

Give me a break. After the first 0-3 start, and possibly the first losing season, under his watch people are already prepared to ship him out. Of course, if the team turns it around and goes on to the playoffs and wins the Super Bowl...everyone will love Reese again and think he's one of the top 2 or 3 GMs in the business. I swear, the reactions and threads that I've seen appearing on this site have actually pissed me off more than the Giants losing games because it shows a complete lack of loyalty and this is coming from many of the same people who expect a player to sign with a team for less money out of some weird sense of loyalty. At least the players have some tangible reason why they aren't loyal to a particular team (money)...what's your excuse?

JohnB and 100% accurate.

I think 99.9 % of BBI believes he shouldn't be fired & that's he a pretty good GM who has had his share of misses, and now we're paying for them. People are frustrated at the OL and LB positions specifically-and they are going to direct their anger at the responsible people.

he's never had a chance to pick his own coach for one.

but the untouchable luster for reese has faded if this team doesn't turn it around this year. this is no longer the team that people scout for the guys cut, this is the team scouting other teams cuts for players.

his seat is and should be a lot warmer.

period.

But he needs to start showing some major improvements this offseason.

What GM hasn't had his 'hits and misses'?

The hits and misses of other GMs don't get mentioned because we're not fans of those other teams. As has been said her many a time...go take an in-depth look at the drafting history of all the other teams around the league and you tell me who's done THAT much better than Reese?

Honsetly, the very thought that his 'seat should be getting warmer' doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but I can at least somewhat understand where that may come from and don't have an issue with that stance. But anyone who thinks he should be fired...well, let's just say that's a guy I hope I never have to share a foxhole with.

and I'm with section125. My response to this question would be no...period.

DAVID WILSON IS EXTREMELY TALENTED!!!
[IMG]http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/danpeterson/files/2013/06/BaghdadBob.gif[/IMG]

Experience? Really? Since when is RB a developmental position? When you draft an RB in the first round, you expect him to produce from day one. Instead, we get a bumper crop of missed holes, running into blockers, whiffing on blitzers, fumbles and tears.

When Wilson starts to produce against someone other than the 2012 Saints defense, I'll change my tune. Until then, I stand by my assessment.

What is the point of having a fan message board if you can't critique your team? We're 0-3. Do you expect people to be happy? Of course not. People here are mad, frustrated, puzzled, whatever...and criticizing Reese is just. Yes, he's a very good GM but he's not infalliable.

reaction type of question. We shouldn't even think of firing this guy.He is clearly a top 5 gm during his tenure.sure he hasn't had great results in every postion that we have mainly linebacker but who does?Are the Cowboys stocked at every position? how about the 0-3 Redskins or 1-2 Eagles for that matter.We are the only team to win anything significant in our division in roughly 20 years and at the first sign of trouble an asinine question such as this comes out of the wood work.When it's all said and done at worst this year will be a rough one and we will cut ties with the underperformers (mainly tuck,Webby,Diehl,Bass and possibly Snee)who's salaries outweigh their efforts and rebuild a competitive team again.For the record if some body asked me would I take 6 years of highs and low seasons with two super bowl victories smashed in between them I would take it every time.

and Steelers no team goes on forever without crashing after a few years. It is what the cap does. Even the Steelers are dying this year. You can only roll over your team so many times before the talent level dwindles to below average. The draft, the cap, the CBA all conspire to rotate the teams to the fore front. Reese has seen this. He is willing to sign a bunch of one year deals to get to the point that they can unload big numbers and start again. 2014 he gets a boat load of money.....

But what do you think is a major reason why people are mad, frustrated and puzzled?

I'll tell you...because there's not one person on this site who's not SHOCKED at the fact that the team is 0-3 but also in the way they've looked in getting there. You don't think Reese is just as shocked? Someone posted a list of some of Reese's moves and for every move that turned out negative it was his fault but every move that turned out positive was 'luck' on his part. And you mean to tell me that's right? That's fair? Yeah sure...now three weeks into the season everyone can play arm-chair GM and say what THEY would've done differently but there were very few people on this site that didn't have a very strong opinion that the team would do well this season. Unfortunately, so far, that hasn't been the case. So we start discussing him being fired and whatnot 3 weeks into the season?

It's very clear.... it's just time to reload.With an average draft and one quality free agent pick up we will be right back in the think of things. The only thing I do question is the coaching.I do see a shake up needed there.

The Giants this year are equal if not better than the team that won the Super Bowl in 2011. Plain and simple.

There's a lot of blame to go around for this team's recent failures, but any blame that the GM is to share is definitely not near the top of the list.

...in fairness, the question was posed and people answered. Without counting I would say the overwhelming majority on this tread says he shouldn't. However, most feel he needs to change some aspects of what he is doing. If I were Reese, I would go about finding the scout with the best tack record of finding quality LBers at both the NFL and college level and task him with revamping the personnel at the LBer position. Because whatever they are doing with LBer evaluation hasn't worked in a long time.

At OL, he needs a more consistent influx of young talent.

In no way am I saying he is a poor GM. He has some holes in his game and he needs to figure out how to fix them. Right now he seems to be doing the same thing every year with those challenges and expecting different results.

are just not good enough. Either through lack of talent, injury, or age. So the team needs to change how they approach getting better players because their previous way is failing them.

I'll leave the method up to the powers that be. This team needs fresh blood. I doubt they will fire Reese or Coughlin. But they need to make some major adjustments.

to the effect that "this is going to be a transitional year" for like 2-3 years now. there is a reason JR signed all these aging vets to 1 year contracts. Whether it works for this year or not, it will help with the cap for next year. The core needs to be cleaned out and rebuilt. We will judge the GM by how quickly and well he dces this. Crashing and burning was inevitable. The fact its right in Eli's prime is unfortunate. I'm more upset with the lack of competitiveness from the second half of last year on but when your core gets old before your eyes this is what happens.

and backing your opinion up with comedy instead of facts.

Who expected him to start day 1? You, because he was drafted at the back end of the first round? Clearly the coaches did not agree with you? He didn't produce right away so he sucks? I know the Giants season looks bleak but does that mean we should throw rational thinking out the window.

Every problem Wilson has that you are claiming makes him untalented is a correctable mistake commonly made by young backs.

You are ignoring facts when you say he is not talented. His speed, power for a small guy, and "wiggle" make him talented. There is no denying it.

By the media, ex-players, coaches, and after we have a 0-3 start this question gets asked??

Just a silly thing to even consider.

.

Well said, and good to see you posting.

It's takes a lot to get a GM fired. He hasn't even had a chance to hire a coach yet.

Like montanagiants said...I just don't think the question should even be asked at this point. I don't think it should even be a question in anyone's mind. Not after an 0-3 start.

Look at Newsome draft and tell me he is better than Reese

2003 - Suggs-1,K. Boller-1, M. Smith-3, J. Johnson-4, O. Mugheli

2004 - D. Edwards-2, D.Darling-3,

2005 - M. Clayton-1, D. Cody-2, A. Terry-2, J. Brown-4

2006 - H. Ngata-1, C. Chester-2, D. Pittman-3, D. Williams-4, PJ Daniels-4

2007 - B. Grubbs-1, Y. Figures-2, M. Yanda-2, L. McClain-4

2008 - J. Flacco-1, R. Rice-2, T. Gooden-3, T. Szibkowski-3,
O. Cousins-3, M. Smith-4, D. Hale-4

2009 - M. Oher-1, P. Kruger-2, L. Webb-3

2010 - S. Kindle-2, T. Cody-2, E. Dickson-3, D. Pitta-4

2011 - J. Smith-1, T. Smith-2, J. Reid-3, T Doss-4

The TE's & Webb are good, but miss more time than they play. He caught lightning with M. Birk and McKinnie off the scrap heap

His best pick could very well be his 1st in Suggs

Should an Is. Not uncommon. No reasonable fan Should ask that question. Since we both know most fans are not reasonable, we should know that this question Is going to be asked.

The fact that the sentiment seems to be he shouldn't be fired shows this group of fans is a bit more reasonable than most.

And you are introducing qualifiers when there shouldn't be any. Also not uncommon.

No fan, reasonable or not, needs to ask this question after an 0-3 start.

You have more faith in people than I do. I was expecting to see a bunch of "Bench Eli" threads on Monday, so this thread and the question it asks doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

I'm glad you were able to take that last post in the spirit it was meant and not think I was trying to be wise guy...well, maybe I was a lil bit but not too much because I like ya. Don't get me wrong, I know and understand that fans are going to overreact because of the disappointment of an 0-3 start and are looking for heads to roll...and when it comes to some members of the coaching staff, I'd agree with them (even though that goes against my own stance). But, and this is just my opinion, there are two men who deserve a chance to fix this team and that's Reese and Coughlin...no matter how this season turns out...and it just burns me up to think that there even MAY be some people out there that really think it may be a good idea to give up on these two guys and we're not even a quarter through the season yet.

We get mad at the players for seemingly quitting on the field and yet are very quick to quit on the GM, coaches and players at the drop of an 0-3 start. I just hope the GM, coaches and players have more fight in them than some of these 'fans'.

and because of this he will become a better GM.

Unless he is blind it is evident that certain units could have used more attention. Hindsight is 20/20 and he will learn from this.

Why fire (or even consider firing) a young promising GM when he makes his first major mistakes? The logical conclusion would be in this situation most young GMs would learn a lot through a season like this.

There are at least 2 good or solid players in most of those.

Sometimes more

how player acquisition/retention and personnel prioritization truly works on the team. But I doubt Reese makes all such decisions unilaterally and tell his coaches, "These are the players I'm getting you peons. Now coach them. If you have a witty retort you'd like to employ then by all means, talk to the hand." As someone who's not the X's and O's guy his coaches are, I'm pretty sure that a huge reason why he favors drafting D-linemen over LB's is because his coaches want it that way.

They were joint successes before, and it's a joint failure now. I think the entire organization needs to scout itself a bit more competently.

backwards thinking people "burn you up"?

Look at the game day threads and you see how knee jerk many are. There were people on the game day thread of the last Super Bowl calling for Gilbride's termination and people said TC lost the team. It's insane. But don't let it bother you.

I live in Phily. If this was an Eagles board there would be 30 threads on firing the GM now before the next game because they would genuinly think it would fix the problem.

Maybe my perspective on reasonable fans is a bit skewed because of where I live. But this place on it's worst days in like a MENSA convention compared to what I am exposed to on a daily basis.

who's mostly responsible for the extensions we keep handing out to players whose services we should enthusiastically extend... well, that's definitely a tactic that needs to be reconsidered.

we should NOT extend.

I completely agree with your position.

I think you value them more than I do, but they've played relatively well as a group. You have a much higher opinion of Mundy than I do. He can hit, but he can't cover to save his life, and Rolle has always been more talk than performance. He's solid but he's not a playmaker.

in the first response of the thread is where I stand, so no.

It's difficult to completely evaluate Reese without seeing his fingerprints on a hand chosen coaching staff. And since Marc Ross came on, who's to say he shouldn't shoulder some of the purported blame.

I would hope, if it ever came to a coaching change, Reese would go for a young, aggressive, and most importantly flexibly minded coach willing to tailor systems and gameplans to the strengths of the players (and weaknesses of opponents) rather than, "Hey this is what Warren Moon ran 25 years ago, do this and don't veer off course, well, cause I know better."

I'm being over the top and half joking in the last sentence, but the point is not to smash the round peg into the square hole because your married to your offensive ideology.

After all, that's the kind of rigid mentality that starts wars of many scales - countries on countries, teams with themselves, and players with their confidence.

if a coaching change *is* down the pike, I really hope it'll be either a young, promising coordinator or someone who's had great success at the college level. But Coughlin's tenure might validate their "hire the fogeys" strategy.

not only to us but him as well. Instead of focusing on them now, we should start looking at how he fixes them. I said in the past that I think he is very good at acknowleging his mistakes. In short, the CC Brown fiasco turned into Antrel Rolle. I'm ready to move on and judge him by what he does going forward to fix the mess.

I've been very hard on Reese in the past an almost a knee jerk way to counter the "In Reese we trust mantra." But I do think he will fix this mess, just not this year.

Look how he left the cornerback, oline, and Linebackers positions?? It's very bad and I said it before the start of free agency.. It's bad, period..

i'd like to add that he didn't only get lucky with steve smith. he also wanted to draft Jeremy maclin, but the deal collapsed at the last second because of the eagles trading up. maybe in that trade they would've given the lions the second 2nd round pick (that got beatty), and we'd be stuck with maclin and sintim

whom btw, the giants had a 1st round grade on. they easily could have took sintim at 29. disturbing.

Coughlin is a better coach then Reese is a GM.

The OL sucks, Reese should draft 1-2 OL in the 1st 3 rounds every year to retool. The LBs suck, Reese should draft a LB in the 1st 3 rounds every year (or, some say, in the later rounds, but later round LBs generally suck no matter what team drafts them). The run D sucks, Reese should draft a DT in the 1sxt couple of rounds. Tuck & (Osi) are/were done, Reese should draft a DE high. The TEs suck, Reese should draft a TE high (or maybe shell out $5 million per for Bennett?) It's a passing league, Reese should draft a CB high every year. How many 1-3 round picks do all the BBI experts think there are each year? How many awesome players @ each position are there that are worth drafting late in the 1st round when the Giants pick every year?

virtually everyone slammed Reese for grabbing Pugh #1 while screaming for a LB or DT. Guess what, that selection doesn't look so bad now, the rookie has been schooled by fire and hopefully hit the proverbial "I get it" point now! I said it in other forums, Eli had 5 seconds numerous times and couldn't get the ball to anyone, how many of the sacks were due to coverage? Still, the Nassib pick befuddles me. JMHO.

[quote]I also disagree with his apparent philosophy that mid to low round draft picks should be used to find great athletes, even if they have limited football experience. The theory is that they can then be "coached up." Guys like Robinson and Taylor are his latest attempts in that regard. For the most part this hasn't worked out. I'd like to see these picks used for more established football players, even if they don't have "wow" workout numbers. The NFL graveyard is littered with great athletes who couldn't play. This is football, not the Olympics.[/quote}

I agree with this. We are not drafting FOOTBALL PLAYERS. Sometimes, the best football player is not the fastest. If Ronnie Lott were 21 again and was at the combine, the Giants would never draft him based upon what they see on the surface physically. What you cannot measure is a players football IQ and his competitive nature. Show me a DB who is really fast but does not know where to be, and I will show you a DB who gets himself out of position...really fast. The same can be said for every other position. What is the point of having a speedy guy at LB if he does not know enough to contain the edge on a run play? Just look at Belichik. He finds FOOTBALL PLAYERS. The guys he has had on that patriots team over the years have often not been players that would stand out on a physical stat sheet. They must have been one of the only teams going after Welker from Miami. Their defense has been made up of players who were SMART and tough. Their RBs have not been stellar but they make plays. Faulk, woodhead, etc... all would kill you one way or another and tough smart players.

I seriously question our philosophy and also our ability to find NFL "football players".

with obvious flaws in others.

He's excruciatingly prepared, he's obsessive to the point of illness, but he's also stubborn as a mule and the same guy who hired Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan and refused to get rid of them until he caught organizational pressure from above when it was obviously not working.

Continues to rely on trusted veterans who don't return that trust, made the poor mistake of allowing the Matt Dodge experiment run it's course, will not be moved to touch the offense even when the Quarterback is shell-shocked from being sacked and just giving up on plays so as to not be hit again.

Didn't Sheridan only last one season as DC?

I don't believe it was his decision to let him go at the end of the year.

He'd never fire a handpicked guy who'd been part of the coaching staff just based off one year no matter how bad it was.

Ericj. Reese and Ross look at measurable s and athletic skills that they assume will turn into FB skills. Easy to do that but they are unable to pick guys who are FB players and have the heart and desire to make that happen. Guys like Austin, Barden etc who want NFL $$$ but do not want to pay the price or have the desire to be players. Get a FB guy in here and get rid of the so called super scouts.

That is a fairly large assumption based off of zero actual knowledge and only one other given example. One could easily conclude that he learned from the Lewis situation and didn't want to repeat it.

but I can see how you'd disagree with that.