Have we already seen the best of JPP?

was a horror show against the run. But BBI sure brought that up a lot as teams were purposefully running right at him.

IMO, pressures are more important than sacks. I admit there were some times last season when JPP wasn't even getting pressure on the QB. But to immediately dismiss a player's performance based solely on sacks doesn't make sense to me.

possible, but it's also too early to tell. At this point, it's entirely possible he's not producing because he's still recovering from back surgery. If so, then playing him is another poor personnel decision from Coughlin.

But he still looks overweight, and was last year as well, long before he injured his back. That suggests someone who isn't committed, as does the fact that, as Greg noted, he really doesn't have any pass rush moves three years into the league. He's being blocked very easily now.

Reese has a penchant for drafting freak athletes that he hopes will develop into good football players. These guys have a higher "ceiling," but a lower "floor." There are some troubling indications that JPP may fit into this category. It takes more than athletic ability to succeed in this league. The NFL graveyard is littered with great athletes who never developed into good football players.

He looks like he is in pain. If you watched him in the second half, it looked like it was difficult for him to even get in a three point stance and maintain it. When the ball was snapped, he would run into the tackle enough to be inconspicuous enough but not enough to actually make a play.

He came back to early. And even if that wasn't true, he can't play. Take him out.

Unless you have specific nerve root compression and specific pain down the leg, the track record of back surgery simply for relieving pain is quite poor.

He may just be out of shape or tired.....there is now way to tell. But it is up to the coaches to realize they are playing without an end on that side. Anyone would be better.

But why make a change. We were fine playing with only one WR last year as Nicks limped his way through patterns and looked like he could barely walk.

for these kind of claims. Perhaps he was rushed back, I really have no idea. But I'm gonna remain positive that he will regain his 2011 form. Who knows maybe Clowney will lining up opposite him next year.

Piss and moan about the timing if you will. But you are not supposed to lift weights, run, etc after THAT surgery.

Perhaps he will never be the same....BUT this is not the year to make that determination. He should have been PUP'd in my opinion as someone who had the surgery he did last fall.

we will never know for sure until next year, after he has a year to lift weights and regain his strength. w/a back injury, u get cleared to return when the back is sound, but ur strength is way down because u haven't done upper body.
u can't do what u normally do on the field. u get pushed around.

austin talked about this after returning from a back last year

that said, jpp is so far away from the player he was in 2011 that i doubt he ever recovers.

the real question: based on his last 2 years of play what is the actual contract he deserves? right now he is a below average starter league-wide!

I understand the surgery and he's still healing and all that but his sophomore year stunk before he got injured. Maybe he hasn't handled all the fame he got as a rookie well. I don't know what it is but I don't have much faith in him at this point. He hasn't shown a thing since his first year.

Too early to tell, but things do seem to be heading in that direction. One thing that's clear is that he's going to have to improve his technique and conditioning if he's ever going to replicate 2011. Both areas should be helped by additional post-op time.

definitely concerned about that as well. I do understand that he is a very young player interms of years in the league but you have to remember he was extremely raw coming out of college.He played like maybe 2-3 years of organized ball before being drafted and his inexperience definitely shows when he doensn't have a secondary or third go to move while he's being double teamed.His injury has greatly affected his growth at the position but ultimately it will boil down to if he wants to truly become great or not.

If he does then he'll study film of the greats to get insight as to how to overcome the double/triple teams (ie Bruce Smith, Reggie White ,Strahan , Jared Allen). Sadly my biggest fear is that I don't know if he has the work ethic to truly be great.I hope he isn't the type of player that simply likes to rely on his athleticism but it's a little too early to say if he is or not.luckily enough we will have about 44 games to know for sure which way we want to go with him.

with the surgery, and right now is essentially his rehab. I think he can round back into form with a full offseason....but that doesn't change the fact that he is little more than a body just taking up space right now on the field. I focused on him a lot during the game yesterday, and time after time he was doing little more than playing patty-cake with the LT on passing downs.

of careers cut short by injury than there are success stories...he may be just another to add to the pile.

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No moves. That is why I have thought that since he has shown himself to be stout against the run he is really more suited to be the LDE, not RDE.

That said, if he is not 100% he should be the field. And if the back injury is the reason he isn't in shape then he really shouldn't be on the field.

if his head is in the game right now. He's been making some strange statements.

but the guy is obviously nowhere near his top-end physically because of the back. He's playing himself into shape right now and he's not the guy he was. He's still a decent player out there, so there's reason to believe that he'll get better.

his attitude is completely different. He is not a winner.

weren't there some strange tweets about his girlfriend dumping him?

I get it, he had back surgery. But, I wouldn't hand this guy a lot of $$$.

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not sure it is his back.

He says it doesn't hurt.

On some plays yesterday, he just stood up and played pattycake with the OL. Weird.

I'd consider benching him and playing Moore. Tuck was at least playing hard yesterday.

He frequently just stands there and tries to time a jump to knock down the pass. It's maddening.

From the second coming of Reggie White to the second coming of Cedric Jones.

For mentioning JPP's instagram pics of him always out in the clubs, posting limo / car service pic rides home at sunrise etc. I got mocked right off the board for even bringing it up.

Not saying I told you so but I still stand by my belief that JPP is not yet "all in" on his football career He has since deleted the instagram account and his poor play could be mostly his back problem but I am not so sure its not a combo of back / work ethic / attitude etc.

My gut tells me that's what the problem is.

He's in for a surprise come contract time unless he gets his head in the game.

and is getting stood up. I don't think he has good leverage right now on bullrushes (because of his back perhaps) and he really has no speed for an outside move. To me thats whats happening with him. Until he develops other moves, gets his burst back and gets some help along the line, yeah, I think we've probably seen the best of him.

Here is my thread where I got lambasted by BBI for suggesting his social media accounts concerned me a little.

Bright side: He is still so young he can mature and turn it around.
JPP - ( New Window )

of plays. In 2011, he was a relentless pursuer from the off-side, often getting in on tackles 10-15 yards downfield. We didn't see it in 2012 and we aren't seeing it in 2013 either.

I am on board 100% with people who say the early success got to his head. I don't discount the back issues for a minute, but this has to be a legitimate issue in its own right.

I think you're piecing it together.

He's rehabbing now, back surgery was only about 16 weeks ago.
If you've never been injured or undergone surgery before, you probably won't understand the impact.

He is still a young dude who needs to mature, and adapt a consistent professional attitude and approach to preparation, rather than leave it to his raw gifts. The league will catch up to him if he doesn't grow his skillset.

Let his back heal up, and I suspect you'll see the fire return.

Gronk had the same surgery 2 weeks after JPP. He is not back yet and may not be until week 6. just saying...

And was never the same player afterward. I forgot who the player was, but I think he's falling into the Javon Kearse category. A player who had a lot of athletic potential, but injuries derailed his career.

Bad back is only more incentive. When healthy he's a pretty solid force against the run, but he is a shell of his 2010/11 quickness. Maybe the coaches want him at a higher weight? This season is a wash. Let's see if he comes in lean and mean next year, if only for the sake of ca$hing in on a new deal.

that's some interesting stuff. thanks for bringing this up, makes you think a little bit. he does look like hes in absolutely shitty shape, I may take a snap shot on nfl rewind later. it just looks bad

better yesterday. However, it looks like stamina is the biggest problem. He is not relentless. Too often he just stands in front of the OL and dances with him. It looks like a tired player.

Yesterday he made some plays especially when they moved him over RT. The effort seemed better to me but still not where it was.

That's the beginning of the end. JPP has no long, sustained history of playing football in his life. Who knows if he has the ability to keep going.

question is what value do you place on him at the end of this season? Somebody is going to pay him a lot of money. If his season continues this way, do you invest in him or cut ties? I'm not sure. We really have to see how the rest of the season plays out.

Investing a lot of money into a player after 2 poor seasons following a dynamic year when you are in re-build mode may be tough to justify. I don't know what will happen with him, but he has been majorly disappointing so far. Getting dominted 1 on 1 game in and game out. I have seen a good play here and there, but not even flashes of his 2011 season.

He was very good. Qb pressure and elite vs the run. THe sack numbers just weren't there but he was excellent last year.

effort and passion from JPP so far this year. If you watch him play you will see that on numerous occasions he just stands up and mirrors the OL and then puts his hands up to try and deflect a pass. He is getting almost no push at all on many occasions and demonstrates very little in pass rush technique beyond a strait bull rush. The strength and speed he demonstrated in 2011 seems to be gone, yet he says repeatedly he is healthy and feels fine. If that's the case then he was just the typical "flash in the pan" and his best footbal is already over. Hate to give up on him but until he starts showing some passion and enthusiasm for the game again and learns to play the position with better discipline and applies different pass rush techniques I'm afraid this is what we're going to get. Perhaps the money and recognition went to his head and he still sees himself as the 2011 version of JPP that used to terrorize offensive linemen and QBs, but anyone watching his play knows differently.

If I were the Dline coach, I'd review every snap JPP took to make notes using as many camera angles as I could.

Then you have a 1 on 1 with Mr.Pierre-Paul. GO over each play. See where JPP is doing something right and wrong. Work on his strengths. Coach him on his weaknesses. Have a freegin weekly meeting and see how he can improve.

Is this a strange idea?

is horsechit in this case. He's only 24. You just don't lose football skills at that age. What else could it be?

Drugs?
Alcohol?
Injury: known or unknown to him?
Stressed out/personal life?
Burnt out on football?
Failure to properly condition/workout?
Poor nutrition or lack of vitamins/minerals?

There isn't much more. Could be one or more of the above. The defensive staff had better do whatever it takes to find out right away or kiss a potential star player bye-bye.

is something fans have no business even trying to critique. How do you decipher pain from looking like you don't care?

So I won't bother doing that. What I will say is what's i've been preaching for months. JPP should have been PUP'd. How he wasn't is still absolutely mind boggling to me. This "minor" surgery isn't minor at all. Even freak athletes can be set back for a long time when the back is involved. Going from surgery, to no camp, to no real reps, to full game speed is probably the single biggest complaint i've had with this organization since 2007. Someone should be held accountable, IMO, for letting JPP play.

We may very well see him get shut down for the season, and it may not be due to our record.

the Redskins did the exact same thing to a guy on their team named Bob.

I hope it is an injury that can be cured by rest/slow comeback.

have to do with back surgery?

Bob was rushed too and he looks like shit, barely able to throw off his back leg.

JPP should have been PUP'd.

He had back surgery a sbort time ago. Maybe there are issues with drive and motivation. But tbe fact that he is recovering from significant back surgery can't be overlooked. He was likely limited in any physical activity for the first 8 weeks after his surgery. What your seeing is an out of shape guy with very limited practice reps.

Of course he is going to say he feels fine. When is the last time a player said anything different?

Julius Peppers is going to the Hall of Fame.

Defensive Players don't have Top 5 DPOY finish after Top 5 DPOY finish, the best of them will have a couple over their career. JPP has one already. He could easily have another one or three over his career IF the back holds up.

after that back surgery. Terrible shame.

Back injuries are career enders. JPP probably will never be the same player that saw two years ago. That being said, being overweight and not seemingly giving a full effort does not help his performance. Both he and Nicks look to be going through the motions out there. Unfortunate because they WERE two of the top three players on the team.

does just that...

One thing is certain, this ass obviously can't spell his own relative, "pony," correctly even if he were spotted the p,o,n & y.

I love how people can tell if a player isn't giving full effort from the comfort of his couch a few 100 miles away. Could it be he's winded because he's not well-conditioned & in game shape a few weeks after back surgery? Nah, couldn't be. Better to just assume out of your ass that he just doesn't give a shit & has no desire to get a much better paying contract if he actually gave a damn.

In the Icewater tub he threw Prince in. He's been shit ever since.