Have we already seen the best of JPP?

we are 4 weeks into the year and we want to get rid of a guy we were calling our next great player? This place is a fucking looney-bin.

or in a lot of pain...no doubt in my mind. How long it takes him to get to 100% is anyone's guess.

be that player we saw in 2011 again. And questioning how the FO would look at it. I think it's a legiimate question.

and/or in a lot of pain they should shut him down. No use in risking it and potentially wasting 2014 too.

Sy56 is right: get Moore on the field. I would also start working in Hankins whether they think he is green or not. We know what Jenkins, Patterson and Rogers are. Lets' see what Hankins can do, and get him ready for next yera, especially since LJ is a UFA.

and it will likely take him time to find his stride this year. Last year, although he wasn't as dominant as '11, he was still a beast. He will be fine with conditioning and time to heal and regain explosiveness.

I mean obviously he isnt this bad. But he is totally ineffective. It may just be a wash year for JPP.

The problem is Tuck/Kiwi are battling on who should be inactive. If Tuck was inactive, there may be no drop off.

completely agree, re: Moore & Hankins, especially when you consider that Patterson, Rogers, Linval (perhaps), Tuck & Kiwi shouldn't be here next year.

Justin Tuck.

when someone picks his sorry bully ass up and dump his ass in the cold tub with his uniform on.......that still pisses me off....Karma

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JPP is not only coming off a back injury (many times those are career ending or slowing injuries), but he is playing at a higher wright than we saw in 2010 and 2011. He's not the same player in any fashion and I doubt he ever reverts back to being the dominant freak we saw the tantalizing glimpse of.

JPP really pissed me off yesterday on that first Chiefs TD: I focused in on him and he seemed to give about 25% effort in getting to Smith.

higher weight

which was part of the reason the LT comparisons didn't seem THAT crazy. These past two seasons he's been anything but relentless.

...and out of shape...

needs to lose some weight though...

see how Strahan resurrected his career... lost weight got into 250's.

lot of ends play lighter these days

year overweight & out of shape. Completely unacceptable. Then he got injured & to his credit, gamely kept playing even though he wasn't nearly as effective.

He's still probably not 100%, but there are plays-like the one I mentioned on that first Chiefs score-where he goes through the motions.

for him. Did you see him running up and down the sideline after he got hurt. he did not look in shape at all.

a guy can be considered to be playing well. JPP played well last season despite only getting 6 sacks. He was among the best 4-3 run DEs in the sport. I honestly didn't expect him to be good this season coming off back surgery and I was shocked he was able to play by week 1. It's way too early in his career to think we've seen the best of him.

He needs reps to build his strength, his conditioning, his confidence, and his decision making. And, you need to evaluate him as well.

JPP and Moore are the only DE's on the team that are locks to be back next year. We need to play him (and Moore).

Just bullrush, bullrush, bullrush, over and over again. That's pathetic.

The JPP off back surgery, the one who didn't have the time in the weight room for the right conditioning or the reps on the field to be back in form. Half of this year (at least) was always going to be a mulligan.

What we've seen the best of is Tuck and Kiwi, and coupled with a half-JPP that's not going to get the job done.

JPP was drafted to sack the QB, first and foremost. It is absolutely fair to judge his play based on his sack numbers.

we have

back surgery, you wouldn't be asking the question.

A mere mortal would still be in bed, unable to move, and in blinding pain despite that handful of pain killers.

And I am understating it.

was a horror show against the run. But BBI sure brought that up a lot as teams were purposefully running right at him.

IMO, pressures are more important than sacks. I admit there were some times last season when JPP wasn't even getting pressure on the QB. But to immediately dismiss a player's performance based solely on sacks doesn't make sense to me.

possible, but it's also too early to tell. At this point, it's entirely possible he's not producing because he's still recovering from back surgery. If so, then playing him is another poor personnel decision from Coughlin.

But he still looks overweight, and was last year as well, long before he injured his back. That suggests someone who isn't committed, as does the fact that, as Greg noted, he really doesn't have any pass rush moves three years into the league. He's being blocked very easily now.

Reese has a penchant for drafting freak athletes that he hopes will develop into good football players. These guys have a higher "ceiling," but a lower "floor." There are some troubling indications that JPP may fit into this category. It takes more than athletic ability to succeed in this league. The NFL graveyard is littered with great athletes who never developed into good football players.

He looks like he is in pain. If you watched him in the second half, it looked like it was difficult for him to even get in a three point stance and maintain it. When the ball was snapped, he would run into the tackle enough to be inconspicuous enough but not enough to actually make a play.

He came back to early. And even if that wasn't true, he can't play. Take him out.

Unless you have specific nerve root compression and specific pain down the leg, the track record of back surgery simply for relieving pain is quite poor.

He may just be out of shape or tired.....there is now way to tell. But it is up to the coaches to realize they are playing without an end on that side. Anyone would be better.

But why make a change. We were fine playing with only one WR last year as Nicks limped his way through patterns and looked like he could barely walk.

for these kind of claims. Perhaps he was rushed back, I really have no idea. But I'm gonna remain positive that he will regain his 2011 form. Who knows maybe Clowney will lining up opposite him next year.

Piss and moan about the timing if you will. But you are not supposed to lift weights, run, etc after THAT surgery.

Perhaps he will never be the same....BUT this is not the year to make that determination. He should have been PUP'd in my opinion as someone who had the surgery he did last fall.

we will never know for sure until next year, after he has a year to lift weights and regain his strength. w/a back injury, u get cleared to return when the back is sound, but ur strength is way down because u haven't done upper body.
u can't do what u normally do on the field. u get pushed around.

austin talked about this after returning from a back last year

that said, jpp is so far away from the player he was in 2011 that i doubt he ever recovers.

the real question: based on his last 2 years of play what is the actual contract he deserves? right now he is a below average starter league-wide!

I understand the surgery and he's still healing and all that but his sophomore year stunk before he got injured. Maybe he hasn't handled all the fame he got as a rookie well. I don't know what it is but I don't have much faith in him at this point. He hasn't shown a thing since his first year.

Too early to tell, but things do seem to be heading in that direction. One thing that's clear is that he's going to have to improve his technique and conditioning if he's ever going to replicate 2011. Both areas should be helped by additional post-op time.

definitely concerned about that as well. I do understand that he is a very young player interms of years in the league but you have to remember he was extremely raw coming out of college.He played like maybe 2-3 years of organized ball before being drafted and his inexperience definitely shows when he doensn't have a secondary or third go to move while he's being double teamed.His injury has greatly affected his growth at the position but ultimately it will boil down to if he wants to truly become great or not.

If he does then he'll study film of the greats to get insight as to how to overcome the double/triple teams (ie Bruce Smith, Reggie White ,Strahan , Jared Allen). Sadly my biggest fear is that I don't know if he has the work ethic to truly be great.I hope he isn't the type of player that simply likes to rely on his athleticism but it's a little too early to say if he is or not.luckily enough we will have about 44 games to know for sure which way we want to go with him.

with the surgery, and right now is essentially his rehab. I think he can round back into form with a full offseason....but that doesn't change the fact that he is little more than a body just taking up space right now on the field. I focused on him a lot during the game yesterday, and time after time he was doing little more than playing patty-cake with the LT on passing downs.

of careers cut short by injury than there are success stories...he may be just another to add to the pile.

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No moves. That is why I have thought that since he has shown himself to be stout against the run he is really more suited to be the LDE, not RDE.

That said, if he is not 100% he should be the field. And if the back injury is the reason he isn't in shape then he really shouldn't be on the field.

if his head is in the game right now. He's been making some strange statements.

but the guy is obviously nowhere near his top-end physically because of the back. He's playing himself into shape right now and he's not the guy he was. He's still a decent player out there, so there's reason to believe that he'll get better.

his attitude is completely different. He is not a winner.

weren't there some strange tweets about his girlfriend dumping him?

I get it, he had back surgery. But, I wouldn't hand this guy a lot of $$$.

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not sure it is his back.

He says it doesn't hurt.

On some plays yesterday, he just stood up and played pattycake with the OL. Weird.

I'd consider benching him and playing Moore. Tuck was at least playing hard yesterday.

He frequently just stands there and tries to time a jump to knock down the pass. It's maddening.

From the second coming of Reggie White to the second coming of Cedric Jones.

For mentioning JPP's instagram pics of him always out in the clubs, posting limo / car service pic rides home at sunrise etc. I got mocked right off the board for even bringing it up.

Not saying I told you so but I still stand by my belief that JPP is not yet "all in" on his football career He has since deleted the instagram account and his poor play could be mostly his back problem but I am not so sure its not a combo of back / work ethic / attitude etc.

My gut tells me that's what the problem is.

He's in for a surprise come contract time unless he gets his head in the game.