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Giants restructure RG Chris Snee again?

Anakim : 9/30/2013 1:10 pm
Gain 1.25 million in cap space
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They're saving Eli's savings for his extension this coming  
Optimus-NY : 9/30/2013 2:06 pm : link
off-season. This move for Snee was just for the sake of getting by with respect to regular season operational purposes only.
Since Snee is a member of Coughin's family  
Reese's Pieces : 9/30/2013 2:06 pm : link
he would retire instead of being cut. Like a general or cabinet member being told that he was being canned but given the option of resigning instead of being fired to save face.
if he gets 11mio next year  
hitdog42 : 9/30/2013 2:08 pm : link
then their should be a fcking investigation as that would be the worst 3yr span of a player making that kind of money to ever play out his entire contract. he sucks... he sucked last year, and he wasnt very good the year berforfe
If they IR him...  
Damon : 9/30/2013 2:08 pm : link
And reach injury settlement essentially waiving him into retirement... how would that effect the cap number for next year?
All signs are pointing  
Matt in SGS : 9/30/2013 2:09 pm : link
to Snee retiring after this season. I wouldn't be shocked if he fails the physical next year so he is able to at least say that his body couldn't hold up anymore. We've seen it before with his former linemates, O'Hara and Seubert.
I realize that  
santacruzom : 9/30/2013 2:12 pm : link
the Bleacher Report is largely staffed by paint huffers, but is this entirely inaccurate? It says we can have near 30 million in cap space next year!
How Giants Can Retool - ( New Window )
If the Giants cut Snee  
BigBlueBuff : 9/30/2013 2:14 pm : link
they would still come out ahead in 2014. There would be some dead money, but also significant cap savings.
The only way this makes any sense is if they know he's going  
Riggies : 9/30/2013 2:15 pm : link
to retire.

Otherwise... yuck.
Even if he retires  
JonC : 9/30/2013 2:17 pm : link
the remaining prorated bonus is still applied to the '14 cap, correct?
If  
AcidTest : 9/30/2013 2:28 pm : link
he retires, my understanding is that we still have to eat the rest of his bonus as dead money.

The Giants had to do this with Hill coming back, and the prorated portion of his salary counting against the cap. No other option, since they were only $60K under the cap.

It doesn't mean Snee will be here next year. I think he retires rather than be cut, and there will still be a net savings since we won't pay his $7.25M salary. We also have to cut Baas, even though it will mean a $6.45M cap hit. But I think there might be a net savings even with releasing him.
Can someone explain how retiring works vs just being cut?  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 9/30/2013 2:33 pm : link
.
If Snee were to retire  
LIGMenFan : 9/30/2013 2:46 pm : link
wouldn't the Giants be able to split the remaining amount of pro-rated bonus money over two years if they list him as a post June 2014 move?
What is Reese doing?  
Steve in South Jersey : 9/30/2013 2:52 pm : link
I think that is a terrible decision.
Some of you are a joke  
Rflairr : 9/30/2013 3:08 pm : link
All I use to hear was praise for Abrams and how he handles the cap. Now you seem to think he's a damn fool
Matt has it .  
TMS : 9/30/2013 3:09 pm : link
Snee will be following the same pattern as O'Hara and Seubert.
They were going to eat money w Snee anyway.  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/30/2013 3:15 pm : link
This is more of a book keeping move.

At least Snee used to be one of the best at his position. Can't say that for Baas or Beatty whom the Giants are into for big $$$.
It seems odd that the Giants  
AnnapolisMike : 9/30/2013 3:15 pm : link
would go back to Snee....They must think his injuries are significantly affecting his performance and expect him to be better next year.

It is surprising that Snee has been so bad. He is not old enough to have really hit the wall from an age standpoint.
I think this is a mistake. Eat it this year. Not worth it to push  
Victor in CT : 9/30/2013 3:24 pm : link
$$ into the future for guys like Snee and Baas who can't even play now.
What happens if he  
phil in arizona : 9/30/2013 3:26 pm : link
is put on the IR next season?
Wow.  
mrvax : 9/30/2013 3:41 pm : link
2014: $11.75 million with a dead money charge of $4.5 million if released.

I believe Baas has a $6.25M dead money hit in 2014 if dumped.

You have to pray at least one of these guys makes a full recovery. Even if Snee gets to his old 2007 self again, $11.75 million is waaaaay to much cap chunk.
not his fault he's making 11 million next year  
islander1 : 9/30/2013 3:45 pm : link
blame Reese.
I think Matt is spot on in his assessment of the situation, as always:  
Optimus-NY : 9/30/2013 3:45 pm : link
Quote:
All signs are pointing
Matt in SGS : 2:09 pm : link
to Snee retiring after this season. I wouldn't be shocked if he fails the physical next year so he is able to at least say that his body couldn't hold up anymore. We've seen it before with his former linemates, O'Hara and Seubert.
Victor and Mike - Both of you misunderstand  
Optimus-NY : 9/30/2013 3:50 pm : link
Snee is the Giants' go-to-guy with regard to the cap. It would have been a surprise if they went to anybody else besides Snee or Weatherford (Weatherford only has chump change to offer now though in cap savings compared to Snee).

The Giants had no choice in the matter, and absolutely had to make more room to cover operational expenses. I'm going to explain this later. It'll make sense then. Suffice it to say that the Giants are doing this the right way under the circumstances they are presently faced with IMO.
islander1 - Snee is not making 11 million bucks this year  
Optimus-NY : 9/30/2013 3:55 pm : link
Salary and cap number are not necessarily the same thing, particularly with players who have 4 or more years of accrued experience.

Snee's 2013 cap number is now $8,500,000. His salary is $1,214,286.
Optimus  
SJGiant : 9/30/2013 3:57 pm : link
Islander1 said next year, not this year. Honest mistake.
Let me amend my last statement about Snee's salary.  
Optimus-NY : 9/30/2013 4:02 pm : link
Hid salary AFTER the two restructures he agreed to on September 4th and today is $1,214,286. If you include the two restructures ($2,500,000 each totaling $5 M), then his salary for 2013 would be $6,214,286.
SJ - Okay  
Optimus-NY : 9/30/2013 4:04 pm : link
Let's look at next year anyway:

Snee's 2014 cap # as of now is $11,750,000.

Snee's salary in 2014 as of now is $7,250,000 (which I HIGHLY doubt he sees since the writing is on the wall for him not being back next year).
this is exactly why  
fkap : 9/30/2013 4:04 pm : link
it's nice to have cap space left over rather than spending every last dime.

4.5 mil in dead money looks bad. It is bad. What's worse is 11.75 mil cap hit if we keep him. His retiring or being cut makes absolutely no difference, except to his pride. 4.5 mil dead money is 4.5 mil dead money. And it really doesn't matter who is hit with the restructure or whether that person will be on the team next year. The bottom line is that once again, we're borrowing from next year's cap to scrape by this year.

The only way this fiasco gets any better is for him to cut his salary to bare minimum and for him to give us more value for his salary (forget about the prorated signing bonus. whether he's active or retired, that money is gone) than we'd have to spend on his replacement.
check my thread from earlier, good article etc  
NYG007 : 9/30/2013 4:06 pm : link
We can have up to 28m or so with the right moves. But this move, and if we cut Snee, would drop that to around 22m I am guessing

Either way, we are NOT in cap hell and will have $ to improve this roster.

Challenge here is TC. He plays veterans. We will need alot of cheap guys next year, and I am hoping by cheap we mean our 7 draft picks. The 1 year deals clearly isnt the answer right now for this team.

Then again, a real DC and OC, might make 1 yr guys, steals...
thanks O-NY and others. My question now is: Is there still  
Victor in CT : 9/30/2013 4:08 pm : link
$4.5 million "dead money" hit if Snee retires rather than being cut?
also.. if we pay this loser 8.25m next yr  
NYG007 : 9/30/2013 4:12 pm : link
Baas anything more than Vet min next year, were in worse trouble than us diehards think. This guy absolutely sucks & cant stay healthy, anyway..



Baas LOL 8m - ( New Window )
Victor - The dead money ramifications of Snee retiring and being cut  
Optimus-NY : 9/30/2013 4:19 pm : link
next year are the same. If they designate him as a post June 1st cut, then they can spread the $4.5 M cap hit over two years (I'm not sure if this is the case since he's not signed beyond 2014, but I'll double check). These savings wouldn't come in hand until June 2nd though along with an extra $2.25 M in savings added to the normal $7.25 M Cap Savings. That would come out to a $9.5 M cap credit taking effect on June 2nd.
Optimus  
AnotherGiantsFan : 9/30/2013 4:31 pm : link
I'm a little surprised that you don't find this a horrific restructure. Maybe you do and I just missed it. But if you don't find it horrific, why not? This just means more dead money for us next year when we cut him.
AGF - This is something that they had to do  
Optimus-NY : 9/30/2013 4:34 pm : link
Let me write a comprehensive post on this. It's not a bad move at all. It had to be done.
Giants should be able to create  
Blue Blood : 9/30/2013 4:35 pm : link
25-35 million dollars of cap room next year quite easily..
CAP will definately NOT be a problem next year  
GloryDayz : 9/30/2013 4:36 pm : link
With all the players that will be gone, there will be plenty of cap room... its finding decent new players that will be the problem
I think, according to Op  
fkap : 9/30/2013 4:44 pm : link
we have around 20 players to sign next year. You can fill the spots with minimum wage workers again, or we can spend more money to improve. We're not going to be in cap hell, but we're also not going to be rolling in dough, going out on a spending spree, especially if we're dumb enough to tag Nicks.
Seems like a simple bookkeeping move  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/30/2013 4:58 pm : link
unless Mr. Mort would like to offer a rebuttal.
It has nothing to do with age ....  
Manny in CA : 9/30/2013 5:01 pm : link
If his hip is a mess, he jeopardizes Eli's health when he's in there AND maybe even worse h'e taking snaps way from some young guy who needs to be in there, learning, developing ....

All this talk about "next year" is annoying and self defeating at many levels.

They should have taken the same stance with him as they did with Diehl & Webster - take less money, or don't let the door hit you in the ass, on the way out.
Optimus or Pat Traina would have to back me up  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/30/2013 5:07 pm : link
but I'm pretty sure Snee DID agree to take less money just like Webster did.
Just Looking Ahead at Salaries  
SJGiant : 9/30/2013 5:23 pm : link
I used Over the Cap web site to quickly generate this table. I first looked at the players whose salaries are done in 2013 and over 1 million. These are the 2013 cap values and potential savings into next year:
.................
..Tuck.......6.15
..Diehl......3.12
..Nicks......3.70
..TT.........1.45
..Joseph.....1.01

Joseph has to be resigned to a new contract. Others are debatable (or not).

Players not signed passed 2014 and whose salary counts more than 1 million:
....................
..Player....Cap....Dead...Savings
..Webster...2.25...1.25...1.00
..Snee.....11.75...4.50...7.25
..Rolle.....9.25...2.00...7.25
..Prince....2.60...1.90...0.69
..Myers.....4.37...1.12...3.25

IMO, Prince has to be extended. The others are very debatable.

I apologize in advance because I do not know how to format tables well. I hope this shows up in an acceptable manner.

Myers current contract is set up to be a 1 year  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/30/2013 5:57 pm : link
and then cut or restructure. There's no chance he sees that second-year salary bump.
Snee  
stretch234 : 9/30/2013 6:04 pm : link
He signed this long term extension when he was a top 3 G in the game. Are people surprised that this came up. WTF decision did Reese have. You lock up your core players and hope that they are still useful at the end of the contract - that is the NFL way of life. Unfortunately, he has fallen of a cliff in performance. I see him going the retirement route.

Do you make Baas take a big pay cut and keep him as the veteran backup for multiple positions
Chris Snee  
NEJINTSFAN : 9/30/2013 7:30 pm : link
I frankly don't understand BBI's hostility towards Snee. This is a guy who:
1. since game 5 of his rookie year (2004) has started every Giants game ever since except 2 (with one being this Sunday).
2. Played guard in the NFL through last season with the same injury that sidelined ARod last year and this year- and still made the Pro-Bowl.
3. Has been a 4 time Pro-Bowler and 3 time All-Pro
4. Is a two time SB champion
5. Has anchored the right side and middle of the Giants OL for the past 10 years and has kept Eli upright and contributed to years of Giants rushing success, especially with his classic pulling and blocking.
6. Has restructured his contract every time the Giants are cap-strapped.

I saw him play at BC where he was absolutely dominant at both RG and LG and thought the Pats whiffed when they drafted Ben Watson ahead of him in 2004. Thankfully he fell a few spots to the Giants- Pats sure could have used his skill and leadership on the OL in SB 42 & 46.

Instead of bitching about his salary, lets show some appreciation for his great play and for being one of the Giant anchors over the past 10 years. The man has earned his pay and the respect of his teammates and the entire league.



snee has given everything to the nyg  
DavidinBMNY : 9/30/2013 8:49 pm : link
Those of you who complain he had the surgery late you don't realize how close to retirement Snee was IMHO he was 50/50.

His body is permanently damaged. His hips are shot. The best thing for Chris is to retire with dignity. He has my respect and appreciation for life.He continues to do things for the team.




He has all my respect ....  
Manny in CA : 9/30/2013 10:28 pm : link
But he plays a violent sport, in which he has excelled and has survived three times longer than the average player.

He took a calculated risk by delaying the surgery, he and the Giants lost. So now he's in pain. Is it right to ask him to take a Cortisone & pain shot every time he takes the field ? Probably not, but that's the only way he's coming back.

Tom is caught between a rock and a hard place. He can be as cavalier as he wants to be talking about injuries being a "cancer", but when he goes home he has to face the ladies and try to explain to them why he would throw the drugged numbed father of his grandchildren on the field.

Chris just needs to call it a career and not end up like Earl
Campbell - arthritis everywhere.

NEJintsFan  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/30/2013 11:32 pm : link
"6. Has restructured his contract every time the Giants are cap-strapped."

Re-structuring is good for the player, bad for the team. It means the player gets more guaranteed money up front. Chris makes out like a bandit by getting his contract restructured.
Thank you Optimus.  
Victor in CT : 10/1/2013 7:53 am : link
..
Snee does not get a different moaunt of money this season as a result  
Optimus-NY : 10/1/2013 1:36 pm : link
of these two restructures. The only two things that differ are the following:

1 - the timing of the payment (paid in piecemeal weekly manner over 17 weeks).
2 - the change in the payment from being highly probable (as paragraph 5 money) to definite (converted into a bonus).

Any way you slice it, Snee was going to earn $6,214,286 in salary this season if he did not get cut over the course of the season--which wasn't going to happen, but it was not guaranteed.
As others have pointed out  
RB^2 : 10/1/2013 2:08 pm : link
The Giants are moving a lot of dead money into next year but they're kind of stuck.
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