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Who still thinks this season can be salvaged?

Sean in PA : 9/30/2013 6:43 pm
0-4, obviously they have looked awful, I thought they played hard yesterday and the loss can be placed on ST's, but the offense is still putrid.

Reasons for hope-

1. The division is historically bad.

2. The 2009 Giants were 5-0 and then finished the year 3-8 (point is, things can change fast).

3. The 2011 Super Bowl Champion Giants lost 4 games in a row including getting smoked on MNF in New Orleans with Ron Jaworski laughing at the prospect of them making the playoffs.

4. Teams regularly go through bad slumps in today's NFL, see the Ravens last year.

Most importantly though, the division is THAT bad. What if the Giants play well next week and win, and Denver takes care of Dallas? Are we supposed to ignore the fact that this team would only be one game out in the loss column for the division lead?

Does anyone else think the Giants play better and can at lease 'be in the conversation' of a very poor division? Somebody has to win it.
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I still do.  
mattnyg05 : 9/30/2013 6:47 pm : link
Amazingly. There are two and only two reasons why the Giants are 0-4 at this point: piss poor blocking by the offensive line, and a horrendous pass rush.

If somehow, someway, they find some semblance of decent blocking (or run more hurry-up as others suggested) and one of the DEs happens to wake the f up, you might have a chance. That being said, 0-4 is when Losing Disease is in full and there's a lot of give up. I say get Cordle out of there and throw Mosely in there and give Moore a shot at DE.

They are doing plenty of things very poorly overall, but those two components are essentially why they are 0-4. Turnovers have killed them but if they line could block you'd have a shot. Highly unlikely but stranger things have happened. We all thought Washington was done last year and they reeled off wins to win a shitty division. No reason why we can't if we can catch some breaks.
We lost 4 in a row in 2011  
BlueHurricane : 9/30/2013 6:47 pm : link
So yes I don't feel we are dead
I want to believe..  
Vin R : 9/30/2013 6:47 pm : link
.
I do, only because the division  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 9/30/2013 6:51 pm : link
is so wide open.
No. This team has little talent and is dead.  
Exit 172 : 9/30/2013 6:51 pm : link
Don't forget the shit performances last year.
No.  
SanFranGiantsFan : 9/30/2013 6:52 pm : link
..
I  
AcidTest : 9/30/2013 6:52 pm : link
don't.

We play a lot of quality opponents outside our division.

Our problems are not because we were missing injured players who are now ready to play. They are because several units, OL and LB, need to be completely overhauled.

I don't think we can recover, even though the NFC East is epically bad.
Every game this year has had about a dozen plays  
DG : 9/30/2013 6:53 pm : link
(either a turnover, missed assignment, trip, a debatable penalty (Myers' fall, the kickception, Randle fumbling (Denver), the Beatty holding call against Carolina and the block in the back call on Trattou, or the clips and 2 blocks in the back that weren't called on McCluster's TD.)

Scott dropping that screen against KC, tipping the Int. to Carr against the Cowboys, Cruz missing a first down by 2 feet..etc.. etc..

It's really kind of a cluster of poor plays, questionable calls, and bad luck.

That's why I think this stretch has had some outliers, and there may be a slight turn around over the next 4 games.
Can  
pjcas18 : 9/30/2013 6:54 pm : link
of course, until the team is mathematically eliminated the season can be salvaged.

but in every parallel you can bring up, this team has looked worse. on the field, performance has looked awful.

After week 2, I could have said, I'm not surprised. Losing at DAL and at home to DEN isn't that surprising.

After CAR and the manner of loss yesterday, can is definitely still possible, but it's highly unlikely.
Until we're mathematically out of it..  
arcarsenal : 9/30/2013 6:54 pm : link
I'm at least going to allow myself to sort of think they're still alive. If I don't, next season is a long, long ways away.

I think the OL is probably too shitty to really be salvaged this year.. but who knows. If the division wasn't so bad I'd say there was no chance in hell. But none of these teams look like they're going to pull away any time soon so maybe we can get back into it somehow.
This is a really bad team!  
idinkido : 9/30/2013 6:55 pm : link
Hopefully we can salvage the season by developing some of the younger players such as Hankins. Moore, and Rueben Randle, and rebuild an effective OL.
Define "salvaged"  
JonC : 9/30/2013 6:55 pm : link
Playoffs? Doubtful unless a 180 takes place. 8 wins might be enough to win the division, but even that will be a big challenge.
If by some miracle Brandon Myers and Bear Pascoe  
BlueLou : 9/30/2013 6:58 pm : link
become good blockers, maybe; but that's highly improbable.
It might be possible  
Jerry in DC : 9/30/2013 6:58 pm : link
to get to 8-8 and win this division, but that's going require a minor miracle and 8-8 is still pretty crappy for a veteran team that's had success in the past. It would take an incredible turnaround to avoid a continuation of the downward trajectory that this team is on.

Very optimistically, if some of the younger OL step up (which is possible, players do improve with playing time, AND JPP gets his game back, and we stay relatively healthy, AND Eli plays really well -- then the team might end up being pretty good. But that's a lot of stuff and we've already got 4 losses on the board. Even if you believe the team is way better than they've shown so far, those 4 losses still count.
if we can squeak into  
GIANTRGR : 9/30/2013 6:59 pm : link
the playoffs we will make a run. 9-7, and we could be NFC East champs!!
this team is going to go on a run  
TheGM : 9/30/2013 6:59 pm : link
I can feel it. We have beaten ourselves up to this point...and whoever said this team has "little talent" doesn't know what they are talking about. We are one of the most talented teams in the league, we just aren't playing like it right now.
Well how about this..  
Sean in PA : 9/30/2013 7:04 pm : link
a meaningful December game that has playoff implications for the Giants?

Can that happen?
I feel we....  
Robert : 9/30/2013 7:04 pm : link
can, but only with a win this week. We have to have the six games in the East. If we lose to Philly, it's over.
What is your definition  
540NYFAN : 9/30/2013 7:05 pm : link
Of salvaged? 7-9 or 8-8? Or 9+ wins? Or getting to playoffs? 0-4 start never made it to post season.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 9/30/2013 7:06 pm : link
When people say "we are about to go on a run", I wonder...are we watching the same game? What makes you think that will happen? We just lost 31-7.
this team has to play .500 football  
JonC : 9/30/2013 7:06 pm : link
just to reach 6-10 ...
hell no  
Greg from LI : 9/30/2013 7:12 pm : link
The team has given no indication of being anything other than a loser. Forget winning - can they manage to lose by less than three touchdowns?
mattnyg is half right  
jsboston : 9/30/2013 7:12 pm : link
my fear is that the coaches don't make the personnel or scheme changes necessary to fix our problems. it's obvious some of our players have been underperforming/injured/over the hill for a while, but they stay in way past the point of underperforming. some folks have called this "loyalty". I prefer to call it being afraid of your employees. it's the coaches job to put the best players on the field. go ahead and do it.

it probably still won't get us to 7-9, but it's the right thing to do.
This team is awful...  
Dunedin81 : 9/30/2013 7:12 pm : link
but they're two games back and have eleven games that are, on paper anyway, winnable. Now they're playing like absolute shit so it probably won't matter, but 8-8 could end up winning this division.
I think we have one chance at the playoffs.  
arcarsenal : 9/30/2013 7:13 pm : link
Which is if 8-8 wins the NFCE. We would have to go 8-4 in our last 12.. which is certainly unlikely but not impossible.

I think that's basically our only hope.
a real fan is optimistic  
TheGM : 9/30/2013 7:13 pm : link
sure we have played like shit but we were in the Cowboys, Broncos and Chiefs games until we beat ourselves. We have a very talented offense that hasn't hit its stride yet. Our defense has actually played well aside from the Dline (who is supposed to be one of the better ones in the league). I think the Dline will regain its form against Vick and so will Eli and the offense (Eagles secondary blows).
Of course!  
chad : 9/30/2013 7:14 pm : link
You've got to believe as long as you can breathe.
If we can get our WR on the same page with our QB  
mofti : 9/30/2013 7:14 pm : link
Just like week one against the cowboys, then i think we can get back on track. The defense is there, but the offense and ST is really struggling now.

That being said, if we win 4/5 of the remaining division games, i like our chances.

The biggest games will be this week against the eagles and the cowboys at home. That tie breaker might be crucial
I get some of the "faith"  
Jerry in DC : 9/30/2013 7:15 pm : link
This team has earned the right to keep believing in it even after they look awful for an extended period.

But that was the same faith people had coming into week 3, when we were completely dismantled by an average team. And it was the fame faith people had coming into week 4, when we were completely dismantled by a team of TBD quality (they're on pace to win the NFC East, but we'll see how they fare elsewhere).

So far we're 0 for 2 with a pair of disasters in faith-based games. Maybe we'll turn it around and rattle off a bunch of wins, but the faith well is starting to run dry.
"we beat ourselves"?  
Greg from LI : 9/30/2013 7:19 pm : link
You've got to be kidding me. That's the kind of horseshit Redskins fans say.

The defense giving up two touchdowns in the fourth quarter yesterday was "beating themselves"? Being unable to stop anyone at all on third down is "beating themselves"?
shut up Greg  
TheGM : 9/30/2013 7:21 pm : link
.
I don't know, maybe this makes me a shitty fan  
AnotherGiantsFan : 9/30/2013 7:24 pm : link
But I'm a fairly young lad and had the good fortune to root for a team that has won 2 SBs in 5 years. Is it really the worst thing in the world for this team to tank when the draft is absolutely stacked next year and we'll have about 20+ million in cap space?

This isn't 07 0-2 Giants. The talent isn't there to make a run in the playoffs, and that's fine. But I'm not going to be thrilled if we make the playoffs as a 7-9/8-8 team. Fuck that. Take advantage of a shit year and don't continue mediocrity. This is a blessing in disguise.
The giants have been awful  
mattnyg05 : 9/30/2013 7:26 pm : link
This year but who knows. Let's see.

They have not "beaten themselves" though. They suck so far. But the division and it's components are just so bad... I'm optimistic. Always.
if you dont believe this team can turn it around  
TheGM : 9/30/2013 7:28 pm : link
especially given the fact of how bad the rest of the division is, then yes I consider you a "shitty" fan. We are 2 games out with 12 to play. By the way we have played, things can only get better.
salvaged  
Dylan fan : 9/30/2013 7:30 pm : link
Yup. Their schedule is pretty easy the rest of the way. Bears, Seattle, GB are the only real tough games. If they win the rest, they very likely win the division. Stranger freakin' things have happened.

They've been in all 4 games well into the 3rd quarter despite playing utterly like crap mostly on O & STs. By the 4th quarter the D peters out as well, except in Dallas. I doubt any team was ever in striking distance of winning w/ -5 TOs.

As said, the OL & pass rush needs to drastically improve. JPP returning to beast mode a few more weeks after surgery isn't out of the realm of possibility. Moore contributing isn't either. Maybe if they practice the short passing game non-stop that would improve as well.

I don't see nearly as much quit in the Giants as I do in a majority of their so-called fans, who seem to be happier when they have numerous things to bitch about than when they win. Compare the Giants current team to those in the 70s & the difference is rather stark. The 1972 Giants went 8-6 w/ Norm Snead as QB & Rich Houston & Don Hermann were their leading WRs w/ 27 & 28 catches. Ron Johnson had 45 & Tucker 55. Chew on that for awhile for comparison sake.
It has nothing to do with this year  
AnotherGiantsFan : 9/30/2013 7:31 pm : link
Yes we can make the playoffs because of how awful of a division this year, but is that really worth it if we have no chance in the playoffs? Once again, I'll bet my account that this is not a 07 Giants squad that will turn it around. You saw something in them, this team? Not so much.

I don't see how a tank season and getting back to contenders instantly next year would be the worst thing in the world.
Of course the season can be salvaged  
BlackLight : 9/30/2013 7:33 pm : link
I said it last night. If Dallas loses to Denver (book it), and we manage to beat Philly at home (certainly doable, if only because of how bad the Eagles are), that puts us in 2nd place in the division, and one game out of first place.
This is not true:  
Cam in MO : 9/30/2013 7:35 pm : link
Quote:
What is your definition
540NYFAN : 7:05 pm : link

Of salvaged? 7-9 or 8-8? Or 9+ wins? Or getting to playoffs? 0-4 start never made it to post season.


The '92 Chargers made it to and even won a playoff game after starting 0-4.



a win and a cowboy's loss (both possible)  
Nitro : 9/30/2013 7:35 pm : link
it'd be hard to give up. If both fail to happen, packing it in seems more and more likely.
Alright. Fuck it.  
Boy Cord : 9/30/2013 7:37 pm : link
Forget Clowney. Let's make a run at this thing.
We'll win if we start figuring out how to score points again.  
arcarsenal : 9/30/2013 7:38 pm : link
We're averaging 10 points a game over our last 3.

Scoring output like that is certain to lose games in this league unless you have the 2000 Ravens defense.. and clearly, we don't.
thats the spirit Boy Cord  
TheGM : 9/30/2013 7:38 pm : link
BELIEVE IT AND IT WILL HAPPEN...We need more believers around here, too many fair weather fans.
After the end of last season, the preseason this year, and the last  
jintsfan : 9/30/2013 7:39 pm : link
four games what indicators are there that would make you believe this years version has a chance? The Jints play slow, refuse to mix in a short passing game, oline can not give Eli enough time to get the ball deep, the defense is still getting gashed with the run and wr's are running wide open. Add into the mix the predictable play calling, the Jints just aren't very good. I have been a fan since 1955 and have always been the eternal optimist, I always thought the Jints could win every game they played, not so with this team.
Your insistence on calling them the "Jints" 500 times per post..  
arcarsenal : 9/30/2013 7:40 pm : link
...is fucking annoying.
Greg  
Dylan fan : 9/30/2013 7:40 pm : link
6 fucking turnovers in game 1 is definitely beating yourself. I don't think there's ever been a better example of it. Ridiculously crappy blocking & numerous missed tackles on shitty punts that went nowhere near where they were told to go is definitely beating yourself. Penalties at crucial points in each game (like a called back TD, called back 43 yard punt return, penalty that turned a long FG into a TD), 2 missed makeable FGs, numerous dropped & deflected passes is definitely beating yourself.
GM  
AnotherGiantsFan : 9/30/2013 7:41 pm : link
You don't know what a fair weather fan is. Fair weather fan is a fan who only supports/follows the team when they are doing good. If guys are complaining about how bad the team is, it's just them being passionate.

Enjoy tossing your pom poms around though.
this offense will get its shit together  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 9/30/2013 7:42 pm : link
by then it might be too late, but I guarantee they'll get rolling at some point. The 2011 OL was worse than this current group (if Beatty plays up to his contract), the skill position talent on this team is deep.

Right now I expect a 6/7 win season but I'm still confident that the offense will wake up at some point.

2013: 15.2 PPG
2012: 26.8 PPG
2011: 24.6 PPG
2010: 24.6 PPG
2009: 25.1 PPG

Every year it's a different roster but I don't really feel like this 2013 roster is significantly worse than the roster of the past couple of years. The OL is better than they're showing, especially Beatty. Hopefully this team can hang in there until the offense snaps out of it.
how about this AGF  
TheGM : 9/30/2013 7:44 pm : link
when the Giants go on a run, you cant root for them.
fair weather  
Dylan fan : 9/30/2013 7:45 pm : link
If you think you're supporting the team I don't even know what the fuck to tell you. Your utter lack of self-awareness pretty much ends the discussion. & I give it 2 more weeks before you stop following the team as well, unless it's to wish they lose every game to prove that you were right how bad the team would be the rest of the season.
How about this GM  
AnotherGiantsFan : 9/30/2013 7:49 pm : link
Go fuck yourself.

It's funny how you and Dylan equate being a realist to a fair weather fan. I'm not upset, I realize that you can't win them all every year. Sometimes you have to think about the future. I'm a Knicks fan, with how bad the Knicks have been the past decade, I'm content with just a playoff team. The Giants can do much more in the future.

This isn't a playoff team this year. Because I realize that and you don't just makes you a cheerleader, not me being a fair weather fan.
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