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As a fan, how do you feel about Chris Snee?

M in CT : 10/1/2013 12:36 pm
I've read BBI for a few years, but this is my first post - it's mostly a response to the garbage I've been reading here for the past couple weeks, so don't view it as an indictment of BBI as a whole.

I have to say, Chris Snee has been a terrible player for the last few seasons, but as a fan, I have a lot of trouble hating him, wishing for him to be cut or calling him names.

I think a lot of people don't appreciate what it means to have a All Pro offensive lineman. They don't come around too often, they rarely play at that level for a long time, and it's even rarer to have a player of that caliber AND win two Superbowls during his tenure.

Think about it - Snee is a 3-time All-Pro and a 4-time Pro Bowler with two Superbowl rings. He's probably the single most decorated offensive lineman in the NFL of the past decade. And now that age is finally starting to catch up with him, after a decade of battling 350 lb. roided up monsters and protecting our franchise QB, some fans feel the need to call him names, root for him to be injured or outright cut from the team.

You want to talk about consistency? How about this:

Year G GS
2004 11 11
2005 16 16
2006 16 16
2007 16 16
2008 16 16
2009 16 16
2010 16 16
2011 15 15
2012 16 16

That's right, prior to this season, the guy has missed ONE game in his entire f*cking career. One. And that includes about a dozen more playoff games. He's played through injuries the likes of which few of us can fully understand. His 31 year old body probably feels to him like it's 60 years old or worse (and frankly, that's kinda how old he looks on the field).

Why are fans all about the NOW and fail to acknowledge past contributions? Hasn't Chris Snee earned the money he's making now, considering how little money he was making during his prime? The guy was still on his rookie contract when we won the Superbowl in 2007. What do you guys expect, an All-Pro OL should play for a discount his entire career? Hell yeah I think Coughlin being his FIL has something to do with him still being here. And hell yeah do I think that's fine. I know how I feel about my FIL and I think I know how he feels about me. I'm pretty sure he'd pull for me to make $11M, particularly after I've made him look so fucking good the past 10 years.

I think Chris Snee is the best offensive lineman that my favorite team has ever had in my lifetime. As a comparison, consider some of the other notable offensive linemen who have played for the Giants in the past 30 years:

1. Jumbo Elliot - 1 Pro Bowl, 0 All Pro, 1 ring
2. Bart Oates - 5 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro, 3 rings (1 with SF)
3. Ron Stone - 3 Pro Bowls, 2 All Pro, 2 rings (both with DAL)
3. Luke Petitgout - 0 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro, 0 rings

Comparatively, Snee has had a stellar career - better than everyone you've ever seen wear a Giants uniform, in all likelihood. And I think he has earned every dollar of his past and current contracts. I like that my team is loyal to guys like Snee because it makes other guys like Snee want to come here and play for us.

Some of you ingrates need to STFU and remember that your team can't be great every season. There are ups and downs. Players will be good and then they will suck. Players who suck can sometimes become good. And players who are good or who suck can sometimes become just OK (thank you, Rosie Perez). It's football, not Madden, where you are accustomed to beating the computer 58-21 every game because you set the computer resistance level to the point where you're better than the computer by just enough to make it fun.

This is football. This is real life. Chris Snee is a future HOFer. Appreciate him for what he was, not for what he is now. The guy has earned our respect and your damn straight he's earned his money.
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M in CT : 10/1/2013 1:54 pm : link
I suspect that is absurd, but thanks for sharing your suspicion with me.
Love Chris Snee but.....  
damdevs : 10/1/2013 1:54 pm : link
like every other player before him there comes a time that have to walk away. Unfortunately, I think that time is near.
Snee was a great Giant  
dpinzow : 10/1/2013 1:59 pm : link
but he's physically finished
He is done  
shabu : 10/1/2013 2:02 pm : link
he has been done and is done and delayed his surgery to play in the Pro Bowl.

Nice work there ! Now we are 0-4 mostly due to his horrible unit !

But lets celebrate what he was 3 years ago. Yay !

Brewer should finish out the season at RG.

Several assholes on this thread...  
rptl530 : 10/1/2013 2:05 pm : link
He was an outstanding Giant for many years. When I look back I'll always remember him that way.

Great draft pick.
Snee isn't an NFL Hall of Famer  
dpinzow : 10/1/2013 2:05 pm : link
Had he stayed healthy up to 2015 or so then you could make the case. He absolutely belongs in the Giants ring of honor because he was the best offensive lineman we've had since Jumbo Elliott
Snee's cool with me.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/1/2013 2:12 pm : link
He wanted to hang on for one more run. I don't blame him for that.

The Front Office needed to take that decision out of his hands. Obviously this season shows it was a big mistake.
He's been a truly outstanding player.  
Red Dog : 10/1/2013 2:17 pm : link
I thought he was a great pick when they selected him in the second round, even if he was related to the HC.

One of the very best GIANTS Guards in my fifty plus years of rooting for this team. Maybe not the absolute best OL over that time - OT Roosevelt Brown has that one locked up solid - but clearly one of the best OLs over that time period.

Unfortunately Snee is one of several on this team who have been robbed of their considerable abilities by age and injury. I don't know if there is anything left in the tank any more.

Nevertheless, he will always be an outstanding draft choice and an outstanding player in my mind. He should be added to the ring of honor at some point following retirement.
Red Dog  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 2:22 pm : link
amen, brother.
I remember the Snee pick  
RB^2 : 10/1/2013 2:24 pm : link
I wanted Dansby, who was the next player taken but Snee worked out well over the course of his career. Both ended up being very good players. I would have been cool with either.
I appreciate all the great work Snee has done for the Giants  
nicky43 : 10/1/2013 2:25 pm : link
I have no doubt that he gives 100% every time he goes out on the field. I do believe a combination of injuries and age has caught up with him and that he won't be in the game much longer.

As far as the Coaches or JR keeping him this long, I believe it has to be hard to evaluate players as far as determining if age has finished them or is this just a temporary result of injuries and can I get one more year out of this pro bowl lineman. I'm sure the feedback from the player (wanting to stay in the game as long as they can) is telling the coaches it's just the injuries, so I think the coaches tend to give them the benefit of the doubt hoping for the best and that they will get star performance from their star player again.

Clearly, JR recognized the line needed to be addressed this year but in my opinion it was too late and too little with both Deihl and Snee lacking. Not only that, but I don't think they should have been satisfied with what they were seeing on the left side of the o-line last year either.

I wish Snee the best when he does move on and I do hope he finds something more to give us while he's still here.
you've got red dog on your side on this  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 2:25 pm : link
just need old man and you've basically got BBI's brain trust concurring.
No doubt an outstanding player  
JonC : 10/1/2013 2:27 pm : link
and tremendous value in the 2nd round draft pick, he belongs in the Giants Ring of Honor and he'll be up there.

I still wouldn't pay him full contract value in 2014.
and lol  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 2:27 pm : link
even RD doesn't think the stupid stuff found in the OP.
i'm sorry  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 2:28 pm : link
who was coming after who, again?
Great player Great Giant  
snumber6 : 10/1/2013 2:32 pm : link
whose performance level unfortunately fell off the cliff way too fast ...
He signed his well deserved big contract that now eats up too much cap if he plays and too much dead money if we cut him ...

best OL  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/1/2013 2:46 pm : link
in the NFL of the last ten years? Just laughable. He's not even the best guard-- Guys like Steve Hutchinson, Logan Mankins, and Jahri Evans say hello-- let alone the best offensive lineman. Not a single person in any front office would take Chris Snee in his prime over the top tackles in their prime.
I forgot about Hutchinson  
wolverine77 : 10/1/2013 2:55 pm : link
that is a guy who is hall of famer. Five times all pro, 7 time pro bowler.
he's had a great career  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/1/2013 2:57 pm : link
He was arguably the best lineman on an elite OL during the late 00's. When the OL was receiving MVP love during the 1st half of '08, Snee was the best lineman of the group

He wasn't a brute Neanderthal who just tossed people from the guard position, the Gants value agility in their lineman and Snee was an excellent puller. He was also more than strong enough at the POA. A very complete player in his prime.

As the 2nd round pick from the same draft as the Eli trade, we desperately needed for him to be a good pick and protect Eli for a decade. He was and he did.

He started falling apart as a player a couple of years ago. He's fallen from All Pro caliber starting Guard to a guy who might not even deserve to be a starting Guard in the NFL. I hope he can bounce back but I don't expect it to happen.
You forgot.  
shabu : 10/1/2013 3:02 pm : link
Snee isn't an NFL Hall of Famer
dpinzow : 2:05 pm : link
Had he stayed healthy up to 2015 or so then you could make the case. He absolutely belongs in the Giants ring of honor because he was the best offensive lineman we've had since Jumbo Elliott

This topic is going to come a lot in coming months  
Kyle : 10/1/2013 3:03 pm : link
for a lot of players, as plenty of popular stalwarts become worse as players due to age and injuries, and criticism of in-the-moment play gets conflated with criticism of their career/legacy.
depends how you count All Pros  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/1/2013 3:04 pm : link
AP: 1 First, 1 Second
SN: 2 First, 1 Second
PFW: 2 First

Hutchinson (awards started 2003)
AP: 5 First, 2 Second
SN: 6 First
PFW: 6 First

Either way, it's clear that Hutchinson blows away Snee over the last decade in accolades.
I'm just sad  
PEEJ : 10/1/2013 3:04 pm : link
his career ends this way.
JonC : 10/1/2013 3:06 pm : link
Indeed it will. Snee and Rolle, most expensive, are up at bat with the cheaper contracts on deck ...
Hutchinson has the longevity.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/1/2013 3:08 pm : link
Great guards should play until their mid-30s.

Snee will never have that chance. He could have been in Hutchinson's class. I think in terms of ability, he certainly was. His health just left him.
Kyle, I agree  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 3:08 pm : link
I just think it's important to consider the entire body of work when commenting on a player and his value to the team.

Paul, you are correct, Hutchinson has a better individual resume than Snee. but I think you are failing to consider the 2 Superbowl rings which, though it is imperfect, is perfectly legitimate as a factor in measuring a man's career.
Well the problem is value **when**?  
Kyle : 10/1/2013 3:13 pm : link
Snee's value to the franchise's history is pretty damn good.

Snee's value to the 2013-14 and 2014-15 Giants is really low.
Agree with Red Dog  
Phil from WNY : 10/1/2013 3:13 pm : link
yet I'm also in Nitro's camp where you pay for future performance, not past performance. The Giants find themselves in the unfortunate situation of having used Snee for salary cap flexibility and having the bill arrive a bit earlier than expected.
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/1/2013 3:22 pm : link
then its Giants fans talking out of both sides of their mouths. Either it's Eli carried us to SBs, or the defense carried us against the Patriots, and now we are giving every individual player on the team a leg up over their contemporaries in terms of their abilitiy/production?

Snee had a nice peak where he was one of the best guards in the game. His great play was a part of the reason the Giants won Super Bowls just as any great guards contribution would have been. But there are 22 starters on the field with just offense and defense alone and they aren't all better than their contemporaries just because they played on SB-winning teams.

Again, Snee had a great run. ONe of the best in the game at his position on the offensive line. But he's been unproductive for a few years. I'm forever grateful as a Giants fan for his excellence, durability, stability, and his work ethic and demeanor.

But overpaying for past performance is how you make teams worse and hamstring them. It also does a disservice to the other guys on the team who are busting their ass trying to win, it does a disservice to the young guys busting their ass and toiling away during their limited window, and it does a disservice do our exceptional quarterback who needs to be protected.

I don't begrudge Snee for getting his money, but part of the deal with the NFL and the fame and fortune is the risk of injury and the capricious nature with which they can lose their jobs.
M in CT : 10/1/2013 3:43 pm : link
the Superbowls are a factor, not the be-all end-all.

when you do the full equation, including the All-Pros, the Pro Bowls, the Superbowls, the longevity, it all comes out pretty good for Chris Snee and for the New York Giants.

the IDEAL is to pay only for future performance in the NFL. the REALITY is that it's almost impossible to do that with a player like Snee because of how good he was.

he deserved a huge contract in 2008 and there's nothing the team could have done differently to ensure he remained a dominant player in 2012 and beyond. his body just didn't hold up. so instead of crying that 31 year old Chris Snee is not as good as 25 year old Chris Snee, why can't we appreciate what Chris Snee has done for us as a whole?
go back to not posting if this is how you read  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 3:50 pm : link
no one is taking away what he did. You continue to demand it gives him a pass for now and forever.
M in CT : 10/1/2013 3:53 pm : link
i think i'll stay. and thanks for the warm welcome.
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/1/2013 3:53 pm : link
because when you then pay Snee for past performance, you are then unable to pay other, more deserving guys for potential future performance. We can celebrate him by cheering him and remembering his great play. But overpaying him is bad for the team.
M in CT: Your're right - calling him a talker was off-base.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/1/2013 3:54 pm : link
Maybe "entitled" is closer to the mark. The whole Hawaii-vs.-hip-surgery thing left a slightly sour taste. Not a big deal, in the broader scheme. He's been a warrior, and has earned his leisure in Valhalla - just not on our cap dollar. I felt exactly the same way about Osi, who will carry similar scars into retirement.
They didn't pay Snee for past performance in 08  
RB^2 : 10/1/2013 4:04 pm : link
They paid for expected future performance. At the time, it was reasonable to assume he was just entering his prime, not most of the way through it.
He gave 100% even when injured.  
chops : 10/1/2013 4:28 pm : link
Chris Snee is a great Giant.
I can't in any way bad mouth any long time Giant  
Headhunter : 10/1/2013 4:33 pm : link
it's not in my DNA. Sure there are guys who played 1 or 2 seasons past their peaks or due to injury and want to move on, but the venom that is spewed, it's like some of you schmucks take it personally that guys can't play at a certain level. I hope when you get axed your co-workers remember you the same way
He had a great run...  
bradshaw44 : 10/1/2013 4:37 pm : link
But it's apparently over.
No rational person has a problem with Snee as a player  
oipolloi : 10/1/2013 5:04 pm : link
the guy was a great talent and a gamer

and no sane person has a problem with the contract that they gave him

However, only the blind refuse to see that it was nepotism not cutting him THIS offseason.If he had not been Coughlin's son-in-law, he would have been cut to free up the 4 or 5 million in cap space of whatever the figure was.
I'm a Giants fan, first  
Joe in Cambridge : 10/1/2013 5:50 pm : link
Chris Snee was an excellent player and helped the Giants win a bunch of games, which is great. But now his underwhelming play and huge cap hit are negatively affecting the Giants' ability to compete. How can I not be critical of that? Regardless of what he has done in the past, I am never going to be OK with someone who is hurting the Giants.
chuckydee9 : 10/1/2013 6:39 pm : link
Agree with you a 100%...
i like the post  
irishmacmystic : 10/1/2013 8:20 pm : link
in that we tend to revere players when they are in their prime and then want to disgard them right away when this brutal game takes away their considerable it is good to remember that these guys (including o'hara and seubert mckenzie and of course snee, the best of the four) were true warriors....the reality is that chris snee doesn't have a guaranteed contract (as me might in baseball) and just like the other three of his former teammates he needs to go as we need to use that money to bring in young blood....that does not mean we don't honor his service and that is why i liked the post....the only reason snee cannot perform at his previous level is because of what this game does to is not for lack of desire or heart.....let's remember that
Chris was an excellent player but the recent hip injuries have really  
Ace718 : 10/1/2013 8:25 pm : link
made him a shell of his former self. Ten year career as a Giant but now he's done. I hope he retires and has a great life after football.
Phil from WNY : 10/1/2013 9:44 pm : link
Only idiots see it as nepotism.
This could've been a great post  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/1/2013 10:15 pm : link
if not for the outrageous hyperbole.
Dylan fan : 10/1/2013 11:42 pm : link
Great Giant for years. I think injuries were the reason his play seriously declined the last few. I also think there are a lot of BBIers who don't give a shit whether they were the reason or not & just enjoy slamming players for not performing up to their expectations or desires & the coaches & GM for keeping them around longer than they should have in hopes that the player will be near as good as he was post-surgery. Those people are just heartless assholes with crystal balls that work better than the coaches' & Reese's as far as I'm concerned.

I realize the OP was posted B4 the latest news about Snee's non-surgically repaired hip, but it looks very much that he'll be put on IR & I'd be surprised if he doesn't retire @ the end of the year.

There was indeed much hyperbole about just how good Snee was. He has virtually no chance @ the HOF, as over the last decade or so, Jeff Saturday (6 PB, 4 AP), Hutchinson, Mankins (5 PB, 4 AP), Jake Long (4 PB, 2 AP), Jason Peters (5 PB, 4 AP), Mangold (4 PB, 3 AP) & Joe Thomas (6 PB, 5 AP) were certainly to almost certainly better than Snee. At this point Hutchinson, IMO, will be the only HOfer.
agree the nepotism argument is  
bc4life : 10/2/2013 4:19 am : link
pure idiocy.

the only thing it is based on is the coincidental relationship between TC and Snee, never has been any indication TC or Reese treated him any differently.
He's been a great Giant and had a heck of a run  
David in LA : 10/2/2013 4:33 am : link
I wish we could write a better ending to his career. He certainly lived up to his draft status, and is a shoo in for a Ring of Honor. HOF is a stretch, Guards aren't frequently making the HOF. You'd have to be close to Larry Allen good to garner consideration. Hutchinson is the only Guard I see making it in on the horizon.
bc4life: I think the fans who cite nepotism are just lazy.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/2/2013 5:56 am : link
Snee's contractual history is pretty clear: As he approached the end of his rookie contract, he was healthy and near the top of his profession. A player in that situation is going to get very rich, whether his father-in-law is the head coach or not.

It's fair to criticize the way his contract has been restructured, but I don't think the teams's treatment of Chris Snee has been out of line with Reese/Abrams's handling of other highly-paid, core players who had bargaining leverage. The main reason Snee never had to take a straight pay cut - like Corey Webster or David Diehl - was that his agent never had to negotiate from the same position of weakness.

Has Chris Snee been treated like family? Sure, to some extent. So were Rich Seubert in 2004/5, and Chad Jones in 2011, and Terrell Thomas in 2012. The Giants paid Osi Umenyiora and Victor Cruz before they had to, and apparently tried to do the same with Steve Smith. Was that nepotism? No, it was a reflection of a fairly consistent business philosophy.

The Giants probably overvalued continuity and experience on the offensive line in the 2009-2012 period, and they are paying a steep price now. After watching O'Hara, McKenzie and Diehl struggle for at least a year after they were basically done, nobody should be surprised to see the same thing happen with Chris Snee. The cap numbers are bigger in Snee's case, but that's easily explained without any reference to his family connections.

The elephant in the room, cap-wise, is David Baas. As far as I know, none of his relatives occupy positions of influence in the organization.
Snee is a warrior and a great Giant but is done  
hudson : 10/2/2013 10:47 am : link
We are 0-4 and likely in a lost season, and if that is the case, I'd like to get as much of a read as possible on our younger guys like Brewer to see if he is a part of the future.
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