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As a fan, how do you feel about Chris Snee?

M in CT : 10/1/2013 12:36 pm
I've read BBI for a few years, but this is my first post - it's mostly a response to the garbage I've been reading here for the past couple weeks, so don't view it as an indictment of BBI as a whole.

I have to say, Chris Snee has been a terrible player for the last few seasons, but as a fan, I have a lot of trouble hating him, wishing for him to be cut or calling him names.

I think a lot of people don't appreciate what it means to have a All Pro offensive lineman. They don't come around too often, they rarely play at that level for a long time, and it's even rarer to have a player of that caliber AND win two Superbowls during his tenure.

Think about it - Snee is a 3-time All-Pro and a 4-time Pro Bowler with two Superbowl rings. He's probably the single most decorated offensive lineman in the NFL of the past decade. And now that age is finally starting to catch up with him, after a decade of battling 350 lb. roided up monsters and protecting our franchise QB, some fans feel the need to call him names, root for him to be injured or outright cut from the team.

You want to talk about consistency? How about this:

Year G GS
2004 11 11
2005 16 16
2006 16 16
2007 16 16
2008 16 16
2009 16 16
2010 16 16
2011 15 15
2012 16 16

That's right, prior to this season, the guy has missed ONE game in his entire f*cking career. One. And that includes about a dozen more playoff games. He's played through injuries the likes of which few of us can fully understand. His 31 year old body probably feels to him like it's 60 years old or worse (and frankly, that's kinda how old he looks on the field).

Why are fans all about the NOW and fail to acknowledge past contributions? Hasn't Chris Snee earned the money he's making now, considering how little money he was making during his prime? The guy was still on his rookie contract when we won the Superbowl in 2007. What do you guys expect, an All-Pro OL should play for a discount his entire career? Hell yeah I think Coughlin being his FIL has something to do with him still being here. And hell yeah do I think that's fine. I know how I feel about my FIL and I think I know how he feels about me. I'm pretty sure he'd pull for me to make $11M, particularly after I've made him look so fucking good the past 10 years.

I think Chris Snee is the best offensive lineman that my favorite team has ever had in my lifetime. As a comparison, consider some of the other notable offensive linemen who have played for the Giants in the past 30 years:

1. Jumbo Elliot - 1 Pro Bowl, 0 All Pro, 1 ring
2. Bart Oates - 5 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro, 3 rings (1 with SF)
3. Ron Stone - 3 Pro Bowls, 2 All Pro, 2 rings (both with DAL)
3. Luke Petitgout - 0 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro, 0 rings

Comparatively, Snee has had a stellar career - better than everyone you've ever seen wear a Giants uniform, in all likelihood. And I think he has earned every dollar of his past and current contracts. I like that my team is loyal to guys like Snee because it makes other guys like Snee want to come here and play for us.

Some of you ingrates need to STFU and remember that your team can't be great every season. There are ups and downs. Players will be good and then they will suck. Players who suck can sometimes become good. And players who are good or who suck can sometimes become just OK (thank you, Rosie Perez). It's football, not Madden, where you are accustomed to beating the computer 58-21 every game because you set the computer resistance level to the point where you're better than the computer by just enough to make it fun.

This is football. This is real life. Chris Snee is a future HOFer. Appreciate him for what he was, not for what he is now. The guy has earned our respect and your damn straight he's earned his money.
Totally agree  
Sec 103 : 10/1/2013 12:39 pm : link
.
So many fans talk as if this guy just forgot how to play.  
GiantFilthy : 10/1/2013 12:39 pm : link
He isn't at the age to have this big of a dropoff which makes it clear to me that it's all about the injuries. If he can't get right with his body I hope he hangs 'em up this offseason. Hopefully some of these fans will realize just how great he was once he's gone.
I love Snee  
Sonic Youth : 10/1/2013 12:39 pm : link
I don't place fault at any of the players, like Diehl, or Snee. It's entirely the team's fault that they didn't draft/develop/sign adequate replacements or backups.
past contributions don't win future games  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 12:40 pm : link
sentimentality is a loser's notion in the NFL.
Don't think he's a HOF lock though.  
GiantFilthy : 10/1/2013 12:42 pm : link
Then again I don't know the history of past guards with at least 3 time all pro bids.
Chris Snee  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 10/1/2013 12:42 pm : link
Is not a future HOF'r... Sorry.
Agree  
Andrew in Austin : 10/1/2013 12:42 pm : link
100%. Honestly the guy had brought us some freaking amazing seasons. His personal and the team accolades prove that. While his time might be up for professional football with all his injuries, he deserves our respect for what he has accomplished.
Nitro  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 12:43 pm : link
big difference between sentimentality and loyalty.

loyalty is why Chris Snee is still here and it's why the future Snees of this world will want to come here. and loyalty is a big reason why we have 2 rings since 2007.
Good post  
Johnny5 : 10/1/2013 12:43 pm : link
I totally agree. He was fun to watch on that 2007 team, he was effin NASTY. That said, I think it's time for him to retire. No point in trying to do it anymore if you are just bringing down your future health. And at this point he is eating up too much of the Giants cap. Retire as a Giant on good terms.
And my feelings on him?  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 10/1/2013 12:43 pm : link
Great Giant for many years. A warrior. But his time has come and gone. My sentiments are similar with Diehl.
wow  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 12:43 pm : link
some of you don't think Snee will make the HOF?

that is crazy to me. i think he's a first ballot HOFer.
Coughlins grandson.  
arcarsenal : 10/1/2013 12:44 pm : link
Nuff said
Relatively restrained for a 10/13er  
njm : 10/1/2013 12:44 pm : link
I'll just say there's a difference between hating him and hoping he's cut and acknowledging that he's not getting the job done and may be finished. And clearly his past contributions should be noted.
when it's time for the fork, it's time for the fork  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 12:45 pm : link
I await this same post, only about David Diehl.
First ballet HOF?  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 10/1/2013 12:46 pm : link
What!?!?!?!?!?
One of the better O-lineman we have ever had  
Jimmy Googs : 10/1/2013 12:46 pm : link
but well short of a Hall of Famer.

Snee was a rock at Right Guard and always seemed to be in the lineup. His injuries have caught up to him fast though and unfortunately he has become a target for defenses to attack.
very well said  
mako J : 10/1/2013 12:47 pm : link
Love what Snee has given to the franchise.


Quote:
I don't place fault at any of the players, like Diehl, or Snee. It's entirely the team's fault that they didn't draft/develop/sign adequate replacements or backups.


This remains to be seen. Brewer/Mosely could prove to be adequate replacements.

It's all about knowing when to hold em and when to fold em....
We're fans.  
BigBlueBuff : 10/1/2013 12:47 pm : link
Our sentimentality doesn't mean jack shit.
While I agree with much of your sentiment  
JonC : 10/1/2013 12:48 pm : link
You sound like a family member or friend when you rail about the financial aspect as to what you feel he's earned.

It doesn't make much sense to continue to pay for past performance. At some point a line must be drawn and a decision in the now must be made.
Diehl  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 12:48 pm : link
has 1 All-Pro and 1 Pro Bowl. he was a good player for many years, but he never came close to Snee's level.

again, Snee is probably the single most decorated OL in the entire league since he was drafted. and now it's simply "stick a fork in him."

young fans simply don't understand how lucky we were to have had him on our team for 10 years.
.  
Giantsfan4life : 10/1/2013 12:49 pm : link
He's always been overrated IMO.



I think Snee's a borderline HOF candidate  
JonC : 10/1/2013 12:50 pm : link
his stock could be adversely affected by the longevity component, given his decline appears to have begun before age 30. The voters aren't quick to elect borderline candidates right away, regardless.
this is not a good post  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 12:51 pm : link
Quote:
And now that age is finally starting to catch up with him, after a decade of battling 350 lb. roided up monsters and protecting our franchise QB, some fans feel the need to call him names, root for him to be injured or outright cut from the team.


So the Defensive lineman are roided up, but not white knight Chris Snee, paragon of virtue? This informs us a lot about your perspective, and not for the better.

You admit yourself that he's cooked - the Giants cannot afford to be a charity, giving starter money to benchwarmers.
having  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 12:52 pm : link
just looked at some other HOF OLs, I agree, I may have reached a bit on the first ballot thing. sorry about that.
Not  
AcidTest : 10/1/2013 12:53 pm : link
a HOF player, but a great Giant. Tough, durable, and nasty. One of the better interior lineman in the history of this team. Same for Diehl. But it's done for both. It was done for them at the end of last year frankly. I'm not sure why that's considered an insult by some. It ends for everyone.
Snee a future HoFamer?  
Optimus-NY : 10/1/2013 12:53 pm : link
Stop. If Jerry Kramer isn't in the HoF, then Chris fucking Snee certainly will not be int there.
Snee has had a fine career...  
rsjem1979 : 10/1/2013 12:53 pm : link
...but what matters in 2013 is how he's playing in 2013. The fact that the guy had some great years is terrific, but it's not at all unfair to point out when an aging player isn't getting the job done.
you how I feel  
Blue Blood : 10/1/2013 12:53 pm : link
I feel ashamed at times to come on BBI and see people talk about a guy who has helped the team win two Superbowls who is out on the field giving it everything he has, even through various injuries that would sideline any one of us like he is a piece of crap who should just be discarded like a used condom..
M, the point your missing is the same facile argument could be made  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 12:54 pm : link
for Diehl - you just don't realize it because of this Snee jockriding.
Most single decorated OL in the league?  
njm : 10/1/2013 12:54 pm : link
I think Jake Long and Joe Thomas (among others) might have something to say about that.
I feel that Snee  
pjcas18 : 10/1/2013 12:55 pm : link
was a great, maybe even all-time great, Giants player, who is past his prime, and his injuries and old age have deprived him of so much skill he may be better off retiring since IMO his skills have deteriorated so much he's hurting the team.
i fully agree  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 12:57 pm : link
he isn't getting it done now - and i even went so far as to point out that he hasn't been getting it done for a few years now.

what i'm saying is - i view the player's entire career when assessing his contract status, not just his current play. if you view a player as merely a current commodity, then nobody is going to want to play for your franchise. these guys are not stocks. they're people and being part of a team and a franchise means something in this sport.

having Snee on our team in 2013 is the Giants doing the right thing by a player who has done the right thing by them in the past. isn't that the kind of franchise you want to root for?
I suggested Logan Mankins  
pjcas18 : 10/1/2013 12:58 pm : link
as a hall-of-famer recently and was laughed at. Mankins doesn't have the rings, but he has more personal accolades.
no  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 12:58 pm : link
the same argument could not be made for Diehl because Diehl hasn't been anywhere as good as Snee has been. you can keep beating that drum all you like but it doesn't change the facts.

Snee is the best OL of the past 10 years in the NFL. Diehl isn't even on the top 30 list.
I appreciate him  
mrvax : 10/1/2013 12:58 pm : link
as a solid, very good offensive guard. Respect. That being said, there's a time in every football player's career to pack it in.

Some go out on top in their prime. Some choose to hang in there as their skills diminish and body hurts.

I hope he's invested wisely and socked those millions away. I hope we can find the next man up.
How do I feel ?  
Mike in Marin : 10/1/2013 12:59 pm : link
I feel Coughlin is overly protective of a non-blood relative that only pumped his daughter a few thousand times. (top of hat to the BBIer who posted that last week, which was classic).
Everybody lives in the past...  
silverfox : 10/1/2013 12:59 pm : link
...when we are in situations like this. Not sure what the hell that proves other than they used to be good. Yippy, Horrah, Wonderful.

Its a "what have you done for me lately" game, and all those great performances by coaches and players don't mean anything now.

Snee  
Jerry in DC : 10/1/2013 12:59 pm : link
was a great player and I won't say anything bad about him other than he's not a good player right now. He was really good and a major part of the team's success.

His play has declined at a rate that nobody would've expected, presumably due to injuries. It's unfortunate for the team, the fans, and Snee personally.

As a fan, I wish him nothing but the best and will have fond memories of him and what he brought to the team. As a fan, I also would propose cutting ties with him if he's unable to recover to a point where he can be a good player again.
I don't understand how some of these "fans" can just spew venom  
Victor in CT : 10/1/2013 12:59 pm : link
at these guys for the sin of getting old. Both Snee and Deihl have been good players and people (yes I know DD screwed up and drove while hammered).

Snee lined up every week at RG and played consistently stellar football until his body broke down. Diehl was an integral player at 3 positions and durable as anyone, came to play every week while a level below Snee, still an effective player for a long time until he began to break down.

As for the moronic "blind loyalty" argument; if they had better options they would have played.
good post -  
hitdog42 : 10/1/2013 1:00 pm : link
my one counter is that Snee will collect MANY millions of dollars for being a bad football player for at least this year and last yea, and possibly next year. That is a fact... an so is his GREAT performance for many years prior. But people who are overpaid and dont perform ALWAYS will get attacked and scrutinized
I was all for Snee being here in '13  
JonC : 10/1/2013 1:02 pm : link
and having the opportunity to show that he was healed up and able to continue his playing career.

If this is the end of it, then I have no problem with the team making the necessary choice so the team continues to progress into the future. These tough decisions must be made in a salary cap league, no way around it.
The salary cap doesn't allow you to have personal feelings...  
rsjem1979 : 10/1/2013 1:03 pm : link
...it's a cutthroat business with little margin for error and a lot of hard decisions to make.

Snee will still be invited to Thanksgiving dinner at the Coughlin house, but his current and future value is ALL that should be considered by his employer when it comes to his contractual status.
again, you're missing it  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 1:04 pm : link
the past skill game is irrelevant - right now, they're both cooked - yet only Snee deserves the thank you for your services of yesterday contract. Or Diehl does too (not that I've seen you argue you it). Or, the correct answer - neither does, that's not how the NFL works. The fact you don't see that there more or less identical situations belies the fact your a huge Snee homer, to a fault.
What a great post.  
hammock man : 10/1/2013 1:05 pm : link
I'd love to see Coach turn over the right guard position to Snee and Diehl,whoever is healthier, for as long as we're still in it.
In my quarter century of watching the Giants  
bceagle05 : 10/1/2013 1:07 pm : link
there isn't a player I've respected more than Snee. We analyze college prospects for months leading up to the draft, and Snee is exactly the type of player you pray each FIRST-round pick turns into, and he was a second rounder. Ten-year starter, three-time All-Pro, two-time champion, and not a hint of a character concern.

It kills me to see him stumble around out there - he should've retired after this past season, which rumor has it he was considering. But I'll never utter a negative word about him. It's on the coaches to get him out of the lineup if he's not the best option. Same goes for Diehl. And it's on the GM to find better options as these guys decline, which Reese has failed to do.
in fantasy Madden GM land  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 1:07 pm : link
it is possible to have a player on your team for a discount ONLY during the years of his prime, and then trade him to the stupid Computer GM when his contract is about to exceed the value of his play on the field.

in real life, when you draft an excellent player, he'll eventually be due a big contract, and if you want to keep him, you have to pay him. and then, he'll get old and his contract will exceed his value, but you can't simply get rid of him because there is no stupid Computer GM to take him off your hands.

Nitro, I bet you're great at Madden.
I haven't played Madden in ten years  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 1:11 pm : link
glad you're coming after me though because your shit argument is falling apart.
notch below  
bc4life : 10/1/2013 1:11 pm : link
HOFer - time for him to go, and he probably knows it better than any of us fans.

Don't understand some of the hate he gest on this site - it's his fault he got old and injured?

He gave it everything he had and plays with ailments would cause most on this board to be bed ridden.
LOL  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 1:12 pm : link
i'm coming after you? ok pal.
because no one is counter arguing you that we have an easy out  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 1:13 pm : link
on his contract. Again, your arguing that people should be happy he's eating space because of what he once could do.
good post bceagle  
mako J : 10/1/2013 1:15 pm : link
M in Ct,

You've stated your case and even came down from the first ballot thing. Lay off all the Madden bs and enjoy the good responses you've gotten.
Snee should be lauded for a great career  
Ron Dixon's Alarm Clock : 10/1/2013 1:16 pm : link
He was the best player on the best giant offensive line in my lifetime (2008).
His body is breaking down and he cannot play any longer. That fact should be recognized as a cold truth, not a reason to ridicule the man personally.

I get fans' frustration, as his play is currently an impediment to success. Why not direct your ire at the decision makers? They offered the contract. They went into the season without a backup plan. They are doling out the snaps.

It's the same scenario as Kareem in 2011. BTW Kareem McKenzie never got enough recognition for his dominance. He was a brilliant RT and having studs like those guys isn't likely to be seen around here any time soon.
nope  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 1:16 pm : link
i'm saying that eating contract space is a normal part of having an excellent player on your team for a decade - particularly when that player helped your franchise win two superbowls.

if we hadn't had that success, then i'd have an easier time kicking Snee to the curb. but he's very much earned his current cap space and that's what YOU don't get. the idea of being compensated for something that you've earned after the fact.
Chris Snee was a great Giant for many years  
Mike from Ohio : 10/1/2013 1:18 pm : link
but he is not even close to being the best OL in the league the last 10 years, and he is likely not a HOF player.

You absolutely can't run a professional franchise overpaying players for what they accomplished for you years ago. If a player is underperforming his contract you have to do what you can to lower the contract or get him off the roster. That is what successful teams do.

Do I want to root for an organization that will keep declining players making too much money because they used to be great? No, I want to root for a team that is trying to win. The NFL is not a charity, and Chris Snee has not been working 18 hour shifts in a sneaker factory for $5/week. He has been paid well for what he did, and it is time to move on.

He should retire when the year is over and go in the Giants ring of honor and be remembered fondly as a great Giant. He should not continue to receive millions of dollars when he can't help us win.
Haha, what?  
Paul in Brooklyn : 10/1/2013 1:18 pm : link
Hall of Fame? Chris Snee was very good up until the 2nd half of the 2008 season. Since then he's been a bad player. He hasn't just been bad by his former standard, he's been bad by any standard.

He has been living off of his name for literally 4.5 years now. That's not good...
the past success is irrelevant!  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 1:19 pm : link
no guaranteed contracts means its all about the here and now.

You've conceded Snee is done, but are made when other people say as much.
*mad  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 1:19 pm : link
.
but Paul, Pro Bowls!!!  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 1:20 pm : link
that impeccable measure of ability!!
There aren't too many  
dune69 : 10/1/2013 1:21 pm : link
of us on this board that understands the beating that an interior lineman takes over the course of a long career. I know I don't. It is not like Snee is giving less effort. He wants to be the same all pro as in the past. His body is beaten, his reflexes perhaps a little slower, and his fellow lineman not as good. I think it may be the end of the road for Chris.

My hopes are that we can find another young "Chris Snee" real soon. He has been a great Giant.
One of the best Olineman to play for this franchise  
Spark Em Up 22 : 10/1/2013 1:22 pm : link
and I hope he retires at the end of the season
I thought they were nuts to draft him.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/1/2013 1:23 pm : link
It worked out better than anyone could have asked. The only way it could have ended well was if Snee and Coughlin had both retired in February 2012, but they've had a pretty great run together.

I don't think Chris Snee was ever a truly great player, as in Hall-of-Fame calibre. He was one of the three best players on a line that was greater than the sum of its parts. Unfortunately, after the wheels started to come off in 2009, the Giants continued to attribute continuity value to the individual players, long after the ineviable breakup of the 2008 line negated that continuity. So we've seen four of the five horsemen play at least a year with a fork in his back: O'Hara in 2010, McKenzie in 2011, Diehl in 2012 (and then some), and finally Snee. Only Seubert was spared, and only because his injury was the most devastating.

Of the five members of that vaunted line, I will remember Seubert most fondly, for what he overcame and for never taking himself too seriously. I admire McKenzie too: a quiet man who went about his business, year after year, with the utmost professionalism.

My feelings about Snee? A bit like my view of Osi Umenyiora: A very good player, and a key contributor to two championship teams. But also overpaid for much of his Giant career, dominant for just a few years out of the decade he's been here, and a bit of a talker for what he actually produces on the field these days.
Big Blue Blogger  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 1:26 pm : link
i was mostly with you for the length of your post until the end.

a bit of a talker?! please tell me that's a joke.
Nitro fighting the good fight, as usual, while M doesn't get it  
BurberryManning : 10/1/2013 1:29 pm : link
There's nothing mutually exclusive about cherishing the memories of a player's past and sticking a fork in him when he's done and overpaid. Snee has been a terrific Giant and I wish him the best going forward while thanking him for his past contributions. Right now he is clearly physically unable to compete and I'd vote to cut him in the offseason. '

If any of us (aside from some select professions) stopped adding value equal or in excess of our compensation we'd be thanked for our service and promptly let go. Specialist of obsolete technology? Fired. Mortgage banker in rising interest rates? Fired. Mid-level manager of struggling unit? Fired. CEO of Men's Warehouse? Fired. 'Tis life.
I don't hate Snee  
PaulN : 10/1/2013 1:30 pm : link
Will always appreciate what he gave to the Giants, but he stinks now and he stunk last season, it is time to move on, period, you don't keep a player for what he did yesterday, you pay a player for what he gives you now, and what you hope he gives you in the future, there is no future with this player, and the sooner the Giants get Tom's son in law off this team the better, this is a joke now, the player is giving the team NOTHING in performance.
sorry, i don't get the point  
GiantNatty : 10/1/2013 1:31 pm : link
i get that you think we should admire his body of work, and i think you'd be hard-pressed to find a fan who doesn't. but are you saying he should keep his job until he decides to hang them up, regardless of the quality of his current-day work? if so, i disagree.

no one is saying he's not a great giant- he is. but he's a liability out there now. he's not helping us win- he's helping us lose.

three years ago, the front office jettisoned two other great giants- o'hara and the always-loved seubert. all i would say is that i think the same should have been done this year with snee and diehl and that, likely, it wasn't done with snee because of his relationship to the head coach and that's not exactly fair, right, or wise.
Warrior  
Randy in CT : 10/1/2013 1:31 pm : link
who had a great run and it is now over.
Burberry  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 1:31 pm : link
out of curiosity, is your job as an obsolete technologist protected by a guaranteed contract? does your company have a salary cap to abide by? have you lead your organization to two major achievements in technology in the past 5 years?
let's try this  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 1:32 pm : link
yes or no - was Chris Snee underpaid in 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007?
If I put together an all time Giants team in my lifetime  
nomad1986 : 10/1/2013 1:34 pm : link
he's one of the guards. When he was in his prime he was at the top of his position. An All Pro and two time Super Bowl winner. Injuries have ruined and shortened his career.
And  
Paul in Brooklyn : 10/1/2013 1:34 pm : link
now you're just starting to look pathetic.
lets hope you never run a business dude  
hitdog42 : 10/1/2013 1:34 pm : link
i appreciate your original post but you sound like a whiny brat here... as a business decision, he doesnt deserve employment at this level of compensation. its that simple.
Chris Snee doesn't work off of a guarenteed contract, either  
BurberryManning : 10/1/2013 1:46 pm : link
I work for a bank. They can and would let me go at any time if they felt I was becoming a cost-center rather than a revenue driver. My company's salary cap is effectively set by the Board of Directors/shareholders (and you could argue bonus limits set by regulators) and trickles down from the top to my specific line of business.

And no, I have not led my company towards two major achievements but the examples are numerous; Sally Krawcheck after leading Merill's integration with BofA? Fired. Jamie Dimon, after helping Sandy Weill turn Citi into a conglomerate? Fired.
Haven't read this entire thread  
wolverine77 : 10/1/2013 1:46 pm : link
but Snee is not even a borderline HOF'er. Great Giant. GREAT Giant. Key player on two super bowl teams. A workhorse, a great guard, but nowhere near the type of guard that makes the hall of fame. Larry Allen? Mike Munchak? Bruce Matthews? Will shields isn't even in I don't think. Snee was a very good player but not even close to those dudes.

Larry Allen is a tough comparison because some would argue he is maybe the top 2 or 3 guards of all time, but Snee at his peak wasn't close to Allen's level.

None of this is a knock on Snee. Could he be in the giants hall of fame? Maybe, and that is a great career.
M  
JonC : 10/1/2013 1:47 pm : link
I suspect you are a family member or friend of Snee given your forum registration and the battle with which you chose to introduce yourself.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 10/1/2013 1:47 pm : link
A very good Giant for a long time who is now done.
Very good player  
RB^2 : 10/1/2013 1:51 pm : link
whose career is pretty much over. I think he's a major long shot for the HOF but he was one of the best guards in the game for a while.
JonC  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 1:54 pm : link
I suspect that is absurd, but thanks for sharing your suspicion with me.
Love Chris Snee but.....  
damdevs : 10/1/2013 1:54 pm : link
like every other player before him there comes a time that have to walk away. Unfortunately, I think that time is near.
Snee was a great Giant  
dpinzow : 10/1/2013 1:59 pm : link
but he's physically finished
He is done  
shabu : 10/1/2013 2:02 pm : link
he has been done and is done and delayed his surgery to play in the Pro Bowl.

Nice work there ! Now we are 0-4 mostly due to his horrible unit !

But lets celebrate what he was 3 years ago. Yay !

Brewer should finish out the season at RG.

Several assholes on this thread...  
rptl530 : 10/1/2013 2:05 pm : link
He was an outstanding Giant for many years. When I look back I'll always remember him that way.

Great draft pick.
Snee isn't an NFL Hall of Famer  
dpinzow : 10/1/2013 2:05 pm : link
Had he stayed healthy up to 2015 or so then you could make the case. He absolutely belongs in the Giants ring of honor because he was the best offensive lineman we've had since Jumbo Elliott
Snee's cool with me.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/1/2013 2:12 pm : link
He wanted to hang on for one more run. I don't blame him for that.

The Front Office needed to take that decision out of his hands. Obviously this season shows it was a big mistake.
He's been a truly outstanding player.  
Red Dog : 10/1/2013 2:17 pm : link
I thought he was a great pick when they selected him in the second round, even if he was related to the HC.

One of the very best GIANTS Guards in my fifty plus years of rooting for this team. Maybe not the absolute best OL over that time - OT Roosevelt Brown has that one locked up solid - but clearly one of the best OLs over that time period.

Unfortunately Snee is one of several on this team who have been robbed of their considerable abilities by age and injury. I don't know if there is anything left in the tank any more.

Nevertheless, he will always be an outstanding draft choice and an outstanding player in my mind. He should be added to the ring of honor at some point following retirement.
Red Dog  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 2:22 pm : link
amen, brother.
I remember the Snee pick  
RB^2 : 10/1/2013 2:24 pm : link
I wanted Dansby, who was the next player taken but Snee worked out well over the course of his career. Both ended up being very good players. I would have been cool with either.
I appreciate all the great work Snee has done for the Giants  
nicky43 : 10/1/2013 2:25 pm : link
I have no doubt that he gives 100% every time he goes out on the field. I do believe a combination of injuries and age has caught up with him and that he won't be in the game much longer.

As far as the Coaches or JR keeping him this long, I believe it has to be hard to evaluate players as far as determining if age has finished them or is this just a temporary result of injuries and can I get one more year out of this pro bowl lineman. I'm sure the feedback from the player (wanting to stay in the game as long as they can) is telling the coaches it's just the injuries, so I think the coaches tend to give them the benefit of the doubt hoping for the best and that they will get star performance from their star player again.

Clearly, JR recognized the line needed to be addressed this year but in my opinion it was too late and too little with both Deihl and Snee lacking. Not only that, but I don't think they should have been satisfied with what they were seeing on the left side of the o-line last year either.

I wish Snee the best when he does move on and I do hope he finds something more to give us while he's still here.
you've got red dog on your side on this  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 2:25 pm : link
just need old man and you've basically got BBI's brain trust concurring.
No doubt an outstanding player  
JonC : 10/1/2013 2:27 pm : link
and tremendous value in the 2nd round draft pick, he belongs in the Giants Ring of Honor and he'll be up there.

I still wouldn't pay him full contract value in 2014.
and lol  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 2:27 pm : link
even RD doesn't think the stupid stuff found in the OP.
i'm sorry  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 2:28 pm : link
who was coming after who, again?
Great player Great Giant  
snumber6 : 10/1/2013 2:32 pm : link
whose performance level unfortunately fell off the cliff way too fast ...
He signed his well deserved big contract that now eats up too much cap if he plays and too much dead money if we cut him ...

best OL  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/1/2013 2:46 pm : link
in the NFL of the last ten years? Just laughable. He's not even the best guard-- Guys like Steve Hutchinson, Logan Mankins, and Jahri Evans say hello-- let alone the best offensive lineman. Not a single person in any front office would take Chris Snee in his prime over the top tackles in their prime.
I forgot about Hutchinson  
wolverine77 : 10/1/2013 2:55 pm : link
that is a guy who is hall of famer. Five times all pro, 7 time pro bowler.
he's had a great career  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/1/2013 2:57 pm : link
He was arguably the best lineman on an elite OL during the late 00's. When the OL was receiving MVP love during the 1st half of '08, Snee was the best lineman of the group

He wasn't a brute Neanderthal who just tossed people from the guard position, the Gants value agility in their lineman and Snee was an excellent puller. He was also more than strong enough at the POA. A very complete player in his prime.

As the 2nd round pick from the same draft as the Eli trade, we desperately needed for him to be a good pick and protect Eli for a decade. He was and he did.

He started falling apart as a player a couple of years ago. He's fallen from All Pro caliber starting Guard to a guy who might not even deserve to be a starting Guard in the NFL. I hope he can bounce back but I don't expect it to happen.
You forgot.  
shabu : 10/1/2013 3:02 pm : link
Snee isn't an NFL Hall of Famer
dpinzow : 2:05 pm : link
Had he stayed healthy up to 2015 or so then you could make the case. He absolutely belongs in the Giants ring of honor because he was the best offensive lineman we've had since Jumbo Elliott

Ohara
This topic is going to come a lot in coming months  
Kyle : 10/1/2013 3:03 pm : link
for a lot of players, as plenty of popular stalwarts become worse as players due to age and injuries, and criticism of in-the-moment play gets conflated with criticism of their career/legacy.
depends how you count All Pros  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/1/2013 3:04 pm : link
Snee:
AP: 1 First, 1 Second
SN: 2 First, 1 Second
PFW: 2 First

Hutchinson (awards started 2003)
AP: 5 First, 2 Second
SN: 6 First
PFW: 6 First

Either way, it's clear that Hutchinson blows away Snee over the last decade in accolades.
I'm just sad  
PEEJ : 10/1/2013 3:04 pm : link
his career ends this way.
Kyle  
JonC : 10/1/2013 3:06 pm : link
Indeed it will. Snee and Rolle, most expensive, are up at bat with the cheaper contracts on deck ...
Hutchinson has the longevity.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/1/2013 3:08 pm : link
Great guards should play until their mid-30s.

Snee will never have that chance. He could have been in Hutchinson's class. I think in terms of ability, he certainly was. His health just left him.
Kyle, I agree  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 3:08 pm : link
I just think it's important to consider the entire body of work when commenting on a player and his value to the team.

Paul, you are correct, Hutchinson has a better individual resume than Snee. but I think you are failing to consider the 2 Superbowl rings which, though it is imperfect, is perfectly legitimate as a factor in measuring a man's career.
Well the problem is value **when**?  
Kyle : 10/1/2013 3:13 pm : link
Snee's value to the franchise's history is pretty damn good.

Snee's value to the 2013-14 and 2014-15 Giants is really low.
Agree with Red Dog  
Phil from WNY : 10/1/2013 3:13 pm : link
yet I'm also in Nitro's camp where you pay for future performance, not past performance. The Giants find themselves in the unfortunate situation of having used Snee for salary cap flexibility and having the bill arrive a bit earlier than expected.
M  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/1/2013 3:22 pm : link
then its Giants fans talking out of both sides of their mouths. Either it's Eli carried us to SBs, or the defense carried us against the Patriots, and now we are giving every individual player on the team a leg up over their contemporaries in terms of their abilitiy/production?

Snee had a nice peak where he was one of the best guards in the game. His great play was a part of the reason the Giants won Super Bowls just as any great guards contribution would have been. But there are 22 starters on the field with just offense and defense alone and they aren't all better than their contemporaries just because they played on SB-winning teams.

Again, Snee had a great run. ONe of the best in the game at his position on the offensive line. But he's been unproductive for a few years. I'm forever grateful as a Giants fan for his excellence, durability, stability, and his work ethic and demeanor.

But overpaying for past performance is how you make teams worse and hamstring them. It also does a disservice to the other guys on the team who are busting their ass trying to win, it does a disservice to the young guys busting their ass and toiling away during their limited window, and it does a disservice do our exceptional quarterback who needs to be protected.

I don't begrudge Snee for getting his money, but part of the deal with the NFL and the fame and fortune is the risk of injury and the capricious nature with which they can lose their jobs.
again  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 3:43 pm : link
the Superbowls are a factor, not the be-all end-all.

when you do the full equation, including the All-Pros, the Pro Bowls, the Superbowls, the longevity, it all comes out pretty good for Chris Snee and for the New York Giants.

the IDEAL is to pay only for future performance in the NFL. the REALITY is that it's almost impossible to do that with a player like Snee because of how good he was.

he deserved a huge contract in 2008 and there's nothing the team could have done differently to ensure he remained a dominant player in 2012 and beyond. his body just didn't hold up. so instead of crying that 31 year old Chris Snee is not as good as 25 year old Chris Snee, why can't we appreciate what Chris Snee has done for us as a whole?
go back to not posting if this is how you read  
Nitro : 10/1/2013 3:50 pm : link
no one is taking away what he did. You continue to demand it gives him a pass for now and forever.
nah  
M in CT : 10/1/2013 3:53 pm : link
i think i'll stay. and thanks for the warm welcome.
M  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/1/2013 3:53 pm : link
because when you then pay Snee for past performance, you are then unable to pay other, more deserving guys for potential future performance. We can celebrate him by cheering him and remembering his great play. But overpaying him is bad for the team.
M in CT: Your're right - calling him a talker was off-base.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/1/2013 3:54 pm : link
Maybe "entitled" is closer to the mark. The whole Hawaii-vs.-hip-surgery thing left a slightly sour taste. Not a big deal, in the broader scheme. He's been a warrior, and has earned his leisure in Valhalla - just not on our cap dollar. I felt exactly the same way about Osi, who will carry similar scars into retirement.
They didn't pay Snee for past performance in 08  
RB^2 : 10/1/2013 4:04 pm : link
They paid for expected future performance. At the time, it was reasonable to assume he was just entering his prime, not most of the way through it.
He gave 100% even when injured.  
chops : 10/1/2013 4:28 pm : link
Chris Snee is a great Giant.
I can't in any way bad mouth any long time Giant  
Headhunter : 10/1/2013 4:33 pm : link
it's not in my DNA. Sure there are guys who played 1 or 2 seasons past their peaks or due to injury and want to move on, but the venom that is spewed, it's like some of you schmucks take it personally that guys can't play at a certain level. I hope when you get axed your co-workers remember you the same way
He had a great run...  
bradshaw44 : 10/1/2013 4:37 pm : link
But it's apparently over.
No rational person has a problem with Snee as a player  
oipolloi : 10/1/2013 5:04 pm : link
the guy was a great talent and a gamer

and no sane person has a problem with the contract that they gave him

However, only the blind refuse to see that it was nepotism not cutting him THIS offseason.If he had not been Coughlin's son-in-law, he would have been cut to free up the 4 or 5 million in cap space of whatever the figure was.
I'm a Giants fan, first  
Joe in Cambridge : 10/1/2013 5:50 pm : link
Chris Snee was an excellent player and helped the Giants win a bunch of games, which is great. But now his underwhelming play and huge cap hit are negatively affecting the Giants' ability to compete. How can I not be critical of that? Regardless of what he has done in the past, I am never going to be OK with someone who is hurting the Giants.
M  
chuckydee9 : 10/1/2013 6:39 pm : link
Agree with you a 100%...
i like the post  
irishmacmystic : 10/1/2013 8:20 pm : link
in that we tend to revere players when they are in their prime and then want to disgard them right away when this brutal game takes away their considerable abilities....so it is good to remember that these guys (including o'hara and seubert mckenzie and of course snee, the best of the four) were true warriors....the reality is that chris snee doesn't have a guaranteed contract (as me might in baseball) and just like the other three of his former teammates he needs to go as we need to use that money to bring in young blood....that does not mean we don't honor his service and that is why i liked the post....the only reason snee cannot perform at his previous level is because of what this game does to people....it is not for lack of desire or heart.....let's remember that
Chris was an excellent player but the recent hip injuries have really  
Ace718 : 10/1/2013 8:25 pm : link
made him a shell of his former self. Ten year career as a Giant but now he's done. I hope he retires and has a great life after football.
oi  
Phil from WNY : 10/1/2013 9:44 pm : link
Only idiots see it as nepotism.
This could've been a great post  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/1/2013 10:15 pm : link
if not for the outrageous hyperbole.
Snee  
Dylan fan : 10/1/2013 11:42 pm : link
Great Giant for years. I think injuries were the reason his play seriously declined the last few. I also think there are a lot of BBIers who don't give a shit whether they were the reason or not & just enjoy slamming players for not performing up to their expectations or desires & the coaches & GM for keeping them around longer than they should have in hopes that the player will be near as good as he was post-surgery. Those people are just heartless assholes with crystal balls that work better than the coaches' & Reese's as far as I'm concerned.

I realize the OP was posted B4 the latest news about Snee's non-surgically repaired hip, but it looks very much that he'll be put on IR & I'd be surprised if he doesn't retire @ the end of the year.

There was indeed much hyperbole about just how good Snee was. He has virtually no chance @ the HOF, as over the last decade or so, Jeff Saturday (6 PB, 4 AP), Hutchinson, Mankins (5 PB, 4 AP), Jake Long (4 PB, 2 AP), Jason Peters (5 PB, 4 AP), Mangold (4 PB, 3 AP) & Joe Thomas (6 PB, 5 AP) were certainly to almost certainly better than Snee. At this point Hutchinson, IMO, will be the only HOfer.
agree the nepotism argument is  
bc4life : 10/2/2013 4:19 am : link
pure idiocy.

the only thing it is based on is the coincidental relationship between TC and Snee, never has been any indication TC or Reese treated him any differently.
He's been a great Giant and had a heck of a run  
David in LA : 10/2/2013 4:33 am : link
I wish we could write a better ending to his career. He certainly lived up to his draft status, and is a shoo in for a Ring of Honor. HOF is a stretch, Guards aren't frequently making the HOF. You'd have to be close to Larry Allen good to garner consideration. Hutchinson is the only Guard I see making it in on the horizon.
bc4life: I think the fans who cite nepotism are just lazy.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/2/2013 5:56 am : link
Snee's contractual history is pretty clear: As he approached the end of his rookie contract, he was healthy and near the top of his profession. A player in that situation is going to get very rich, whether his father-in-law is the head coach or not.

It's fair to criticize the way his contract has been restructured, but I don't think the teams's treatment of Chris Snee has been out of line with Reese/Abrams's handling of other highly-paid, core players who had bargaining leverage. The main reason Snee never had to take a straight pay cut - like Corey Webster or David Diehl - was that his agent never had to negotiate from the same position of weakness.

Has Chris Snee been treated like family? Sure, to some extent. So were Rich Seubert in 2004/5, and Chad Jones in 2011, and Terrell Thomas in 2012. The Giants paid Osi Umenyiora and Victor Cruz before they had to, and apparently tried to do the same with Steve Smith. Was that nepotism? No, it was a reflection of a fairly consistent business philosophy.

The Giants probably overvalued continuity and experience on the offensive line in the 2009-2012 period, and they are paying a steep price now. After watching O'Hara, McKenzie and Diehl struggle for at least a year after they were basically done, nobody should be surprised to see the same thing happen with Chris Snee. The cap numbers are bigger in Snee's case, but that's easily explained without any reference to his family connections.

The elephant in the room, cap-wise, is David Baas. As far as I know, none of his relatives occupy positions of influence in the organization.
Snee is a warrior and a great Giant but is done  
hudson : 10/2/2013 10:47 am : link
We are 0-4 and likely in a lost season, and if that is the case, I'd like to get as much of a read as possible on our younger guys like Brewer to see if he is a part of the future.
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