I've read BBI for a few years, but this is my first post - it's mostly a response to the garbage I've been reading here for the past couple weeks, so don't view it as an indictment of BBI as a whole.
I have to say, Chris Snee has been a terrible player for the last few seasons, but as a fan, I have a lot of trouble hating him, wishing for him to be cut or calling him names.
I think a lot of people don't appreciate what it means to have a All Pro offensive lineman. They don't come around too often, they rarely play at that level for a long time, and it's even rarer to have a player of that caliber AND win two Superbowls during his tenure.
Think about it - Snee is a 3-time All-Pro and a 4-time Pro Bowler with two Superbowl rings. He's probably the single most decorated offensive lineman in the NFL of the past decade. And now that age is finally starting to catch up with him, after a decade of battling 350 lb. roided up monsters and protecting our franchise QB, some fans feel the need to call him names, root for him to be injured or outright cut from the team.
You want to talk about consistency? How about this:
Year G GS
2004 11 11
2005 16 16
2006 16 16
2007 16 16
2008 16 16
2009 16 16
2010 16 16
2011 15 15
2012 16 16
That's right, prior to this season, the guy has missed ONE game in his entire f*cking career. One. And that includes about a dozen more playoff games. He's played through injuries the likes of which few of us can fully understand. His 31 year old body probably feels to him like it's 60 years old or worse (and frankly, that's kinda how old he looks on the field).
Why are fans all about the NOW and fail to acknowledge past contributions? Hasn't Chris Snee earned the money he's making now, considering how little money he was making during his prime? The guy was still on his rookie contract when we won the Superbowl in 2007. What do you guys expect, an All-Pro OL should play for a discount his entire career? Hell yeah I think Coughlin being his FIL has something to do with him still being here. And hell yeah do I think that's fine. I know how I feel about my FIL and I think I know how he feels about me. I'm pretty sure he'd pull for me to make $11M, particularly after I've made him look so fucking good the past 10 years.
I think Chris Snee is the best offensive lineman that my favorite team has ever had in my lifetime. As a comparison, consider some of the other notable offensive linemen who have played for the Giants in the past 30 years:
1. Jumbo Elliot - 1 Pro Bowl, 0 All Pro, 1 ring
2. Bart Oates - 5 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro, 3 rings (1 with SF)
3. Ron Stone - 3 Pro Bowls, 2 All Pro, 2 rings (both with DAL)
3. Luke Petitgout - 0 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro, 0 rings
Comparatively, Snee has had a stellar career - better than everyone you've ever seen wear a Giants uniform, in all likelihood. And I think he has earned every dollar of his past and current contracts. I like that my team is loyal to guys like Snee because it makes other guys like Snee want to come here and play for us.
Some of you ingrates need to STFU and remember that your team can't be great every season. There are ups and downs. Players will be good and then they will suck. Players who suck can sometimes become good. And players who are good or who suck can sometimes become just OK (thank you, Rosie Perez). It's football, not Madden, where you are accustomed to beating the computer 58-21 every game because you set the computer resistance level to the point where you're better than the computer by just enough to make it fun.
This is football. This is real life. Chris Snee is a future HOFer. Appreciate him for what he was, not for what he is now. The guy has earned our respect and your damn straight he's earned his money.
loyalty is why Chris Snee is still here and it's why the future Snees of this world will want to come here. and loyalty is a big reason why we have 2 rings since 2007.
that is crazy to me. i think he's a first ballot HOFer.
Snee was a rock at Right Guard and always seemed to be in the lineup. His injuries have caught up to him fast though and unfortunately he has become a target for defenses to attack.
This remains to be seen. Brewer/Mosely could prove to be adequate replacements.
It's all about knowing when to hold em and when to fold em....
It doesn't make much sense to continue to pay for past performance. At some point a line must be drawn and a decision in the now must be made.
again, Snee is probably the single most decorated OL in the entire league since he was drafted. and now it's simply "stick a fork in him."
young fans simply don't understand how lucky we were to have had him on our team for 10 years.
So the Defensive lineman are roided up, but not white knight Chris Snee, paragon of virtue? This informs us a lot about your perspective, and not for the better.
You admit yourself that he's cooked - the Giants cannot afford to be a charity, giving starter money to benchwarmers.
what i'm saying is - i view the player's entire career when assessing his contract status, not just his current play. if you view a player as merely a current commodity, then nobody is going to want to play for your franchise. these guys are not stocks. they're people and being part of a team and a franchise means something in this sport.
having Snee on our team in 2013 is the Giants doing the right thing by a player who has done the right thing by them in the past. isn't that the kind of franchise you want to root for?
Snee is the best OL of the past 10 years in the NFL. Diehl isn't even on the top 30 list.
Some go out on top in their prime. Some choose to hang in there as their skills diminish and body hurts.
I hope he's invested wisely and socked those millions away. I hope we can find the next man up.
Its a "what have you done for me lately" game, and all those great performances by coaches and players don't mean anything now.
His play has declined at a rate that nobody would've expected, presumably due to injuries. It's unfortunate for the team, the fans, and Snee personally.
As a fan, I wish him nothing but the best and will have fond memories of him and what he brought to the team. As a fan, I also would propose cutting ties with him if he's unable to recover to a point where he can be a good player again.
Snee lined up every week at RG and played consistently stellar football until his body broke down. Diehl was an integral player at 3 positions and durable as anyone, came to play every week while a level below Snee, still an effective player for a long time until he began to break down.
As for the moronic "blind loyalty" argument; if they had better options they would have played.
If this is the end of it, then I have no problem with the team making the necessary choice so the team continues to progress into the future. These tough decisions must be made in a salary cap league, no way around it.
Snee will still be invited to Thanksgiving dinner at the Coughlin house, but his current and future value is ALL that should be considered by his employer when it comes to his contractual status.
It kills me to see him stumble around out there - he should've retired after this past season, which rumor has it he was considering. But I'll never utter a negative word about him. It's on the coaches to get him out of the lineup if he's not the best option. Same goes for Diehl. And it's on the GM to find better options as these guys decline, which Reese has failed to do.
in real life, when you draft an excellent player, he'll eventually be due a big contract, and if you want to keep him, you have to pay him. and then, he'll get old and his contract will exceed his value, but you can't simply get rid of him because there is no stupid Computer GM to take him off your hands.
Nitro, I bet you're great at Madden.
Don't understand some of the hate he gest on this site - it's his fault he got old and injured?
He gave it everything he had and plays with ailments would cause most on this board to be bed ridden.
You've stated your case and even came down from the first ballot thing. Lay off all the Madden bs and enjoy the good responses you've gotten.
His body is breaking down and he cannot play any longer. That fact should be recognized as a cold truth, not a reason to ridicule the man personally.
I get fans' frustration, as his play is currently an impediment to success. Why not direct your ire at the decision makers? They offered the contract. They went into the season without a backup plan. They are doling out the snaps.
It's the same scenario as Kareem in 2011. BTW Kareem McKenzie never got enough recognition for his dominance. He was a brilliant RT and having studs like those guys isn't likely to be seen around here any time soon.
if we hadn't had that success, then i'd have an easier time kicking Snee to the curb. but he's very much earned his current cap space and that's what YOU don't get. the idea of being compensated for something that you've earned after the fact.
You absolutely can't run a professional franchise overpaying players for what they accomplished for you years ago. If a player is underperforming his contract you have to do what you can to lower the contract or get him off the roster. That is what successful teams do.
Do I want to root for an organization that will keep declining players making too much money because they used to be great? No, I want to root for a team that is trying to win. The NFL is not a charity, and Chris Snee has not been working 18 hour shifts in a sneaker factory for $5/week. He has been paid well for what he did, and it is time to move on.
He should retire when the year is over and go in the Giants ring of honor and be remembered fondly as a great Giant. He should not continue to receive millions of dollars when he can't help us win.
He has been living off of his name for literally 4.5 years now. That's not good...
You've conceded Snee is done, but are made when other people say as much.
My hopes are that we can find another young "Chris Snee" real soon. He has been a great Giant.
I don't think Chris Snee was ever a truly great player, as in Hall-of-Fame calibre. He was one of the three best players on a line that was greater than the sum of its parts. Unfortunately, after the wheels started to come off in 2009, the Giants continued to attribute continuity value to the individual players, long after the ineviable breakup of the 2008 line negated that continuity. So we've seen four of the five horsemen play at least a year with a fork in his back: O'Hara in 2010, McKenzie in 2011, Diehl in 2012 (and then some), and finally Snee. Only Seubert was spared, and only because his injury was the most devastating.
Of the five members of that vaunted line, I will remember Seubert most fondly, for what he overcame and for never taking himself too seriously. I admire McKenzie too: a quiet man who went about his business, year after year, with the utmost professionalism.
My feelings about Snee? A bit like my view of Osi Umenyiora: A very good player, and a key contributor to two championship teams. But also overpaid for much of his Giant career, dominant for just a few years out of the decade he's been here, and a bit of a talker for what he actually produces on the field these days.
a bit of a talker?! please tell me that's a joke.
If any of us (aside from some select professions) stopped adding value equal or in excess of our compensation we'd be thanked for our service and promptly let go. Specialist of obsolete technology? Fired. Mortgage banker in rising interest rates? Fired. Mid-level manager of struggling unit? Fired. CEO of Men's Warehouse? Fired. 'Tis life.
no one is saying he's not a great giant- he is. but he's a liability out there now. he's not helping us win- he's helping us lose.
three years ago, the front office jettisoned two other great giants- o'hara and the always-loved seubert. all i would say is that i think the same should have been done this year with snee and diehl and that, likely, it wasn't done with snee because of his relationship to the head coach and that's not exactly fair, right, or wise.
And no, I have not led my company towards two major achievements but the examples are numerous; Sally Krawcheck after leading Merill's integration with BofA? Fired. Jamie Dimon, after helping Sandy Weill turn Citi into a conglomerate? Fired.
Larry Allen is a tough comparison because some would argue he is maybe the top 2 or 3 guards of all time, but Snee at his peak wasn't close to Allen's level.
None of this is a knock on Snee. Could he be in the giants hall of fame? Maybe, and that is a great career.
Nice work there ! Now we are 0-4 mostly due to his horrible unit !
But lets celebrate what he was 3 years ago. Yay !
Brewer should finish out the season at RG.
Great draft pick.
The Front Office needed to take that decision out of his hands. Obviously this season shows it was a big mistake.
One of the very best GIANTS Guards in my fifty plus years of rooting for this team. Maybe not the absolute best OL over that time - OT Roosevelt Brown has that one locked up solid - but clearly one of the best OLs over that time period.
Unfortunately Snee is one of several on this team who have been robbed of their considerable abilities by age and injury. I don't know if there is anything left in the tank any more.
Nevertheless, he will always be an outstanding draft choice and an outstanding player in my mind. He should be added to the ring of honor at some point following retirement.
As far as the Coaches or JR keeping him this long, I believe it has to be hard to evaluate players as far as determining if age has finished them or is this just a temporary result of injuries and can I get one more year out of this pro bowl lineman. I'm sure the feedback from the player (wanting to stay in the game as long as they can) is telling the coaches it's just the injuries, so I think the coaches tend to give them the benefit of the doubt hoping for the best and that they will get star performance from their star player again.
Clearly, JR recognized the line needed to be addressed this year but in my opinion it was too late and too little with both Deihl and Snee lacking. Not only that, but I don't think they should have been satisfied with what they were seeing on the left side of the o-line last year either.
I wish Snee the best when he does move on and I do hope he finds something more to give us while he's still here.
I still wouldn't pay him full contract value in 2014.
He signed his well deserved big contract that now eats up too much cap if he plays and too much dead money if we cut him ...
He wasn't a brute Neanderthal who just tossed people from the guard position, the Gants value agility in their lineman and Snee was an excellent puller. He was also more than strong enough at the POA. A very complete player in his prime.
As the 2nd round pick from the same draft as the Eli trade, we desperately needed for him to be a good pick and protect Eli for a decade. He was and he did.
He started falling apart as a player a couple of years ago. He's fallen from All Pro caliber starting Guard to a guy who might not even deserve to be a starting Guard in the NFL. I hope he can bounce back but I don't expect it to happen.
dpinzow : 2:05 pm : link
Had he stayed healthy up to 2015 or so then you could make the case. He absolutely belongs in the Giants ring of honor because he was the best offensive lineman we've had since Jumbo Elliott
Ohara
AP: 1 First, 1 Second
SN: 2 First, 1 Second
PFW: 2 First
Hutchinson (awards started 2003)
AP: 5 First, 2 Second
SN: 6 First
PFW: 6 First
Either way, it's clear that Hutchinson blows away Snee over the last decade in accolades.
Snee will never have that chance. He could have been in Hutchinson's class. I think in terms of ability, he certainly was. His health just left him.
Paul, you are correct, Hutchinson has a better individual resume than Snee. but I think you are failing to consider the 2 Superbowl rings which, though it is imperfect, is perfectly legitimate as a factor in measuring a man's career.
Snee's value to the 2013-14 and 2014-15 Giants is really low.
Snee had a nice peak where he was one of the best guards in the game. His great play was a part of the reason the Giants won Super Bowls just as any great guards contribution would have been. But there are 22 starters on the field with just offense and defense alone and they aren't all better than their contemporaries just because they played on SB-winning teams.
Again, Snee had a great run. ONe of the best in the game at his position on the offensive line. But he's been unproductive for a few years. I'm forever grateful as a Giants fan for his excellence, durability, stability, and his work ethic and demeanor.
But overpaying for past performance is how you make teams worse and hamstring them. It also does a disservice to the other guys on the team who are busting their ass trying to win, it does a disservice to the young guys busting their ass and toiling away during their limited window, and it does a disservice do our exceptional quarterback who needs to be protected.
I don't begrudge Snee for getting his money, but part of the deal with the NFL and the fame and fortune is the risk of injury and the capricious nature with which they can lose their jobs.
when you do the full equation, including the All-Pros, the Pro Bowls, the Superbowls, the longevity, it all comes out pretty good for Chris Snee and for the New York Giants.
the IDEAL is to pay only for future performance in the NFL. the REALITY is that it's almost impossible to do that with a player like Snee because of how good he was.
he deserved a huge contract in 2008 and there's nothing the team could have done differently to ensure he remained a dominant player in 2012 and beyond. his body just didn't hold up. so instead of crying that 31 year old Chris Snee is not as good as 25 year old Chris Snee, why can't we appreciate what Chris Snee has done for us as a whole?
and no sane person has a problem with the contract that they gave him
However, only the blind refuse to see that it was nepotism not cutting him THIS offseason.If he had not been Coughlin's son-in-law, he would have been cut to free up the 4 or 5 million in cap space of whatever the figure was.
I realize the OP was posted B4 the latest news about Snee's non-surgically repaired hip, but it looks very much that he'll be put on IR & I'd be surprised if he doesn't retire @ the end of the year.
There was indeed much hyperbole about just how good Snee was. He has virtually no chance @ the HOF, as over the last decade or so, Jeff Saturday (6 PB, 4 AP), Hutchinson, Mankins (5 PB, 4 AP), Jake Long (4 PB, 2 AP), Jason Peters (5 PB, 4 AP), Mangold (4 PB, 3 AP) & Joe Thomas (6 PB, 5 AP) were certainly to almost certainly better than Snee. At this point Hutchinson, IMO, will be the only HOfer.
the only thing it is based on is the coincidental relationship between TC and Snee, never has been any indication TC or Reese treated him any differently.
It's fair to criticize the way his contract has been restructured, but I don't think the teams's treatment of Chris Snee has been out of line with Reese/Abrams's handling of other highly-paid, core players who had bargaining leverage. The main reason Snee never had to take a straight pay cut - like Corey Webster or David Diehl - was that his agent never had to negotiate from the same position of weakness.
Has Chris Snee been treated like family? Sure, to some extent. So were Rich Seubert in 2004/5, and Chad Jones in 2011, and Terrell Thomas in 2012. The Giants paid Osi Umenyiora and Victor Cruz before they had to, and apparently tried to do the same with Steve Smith. Was that nepotism? No, it was a reflection of a fairly consistent business philosophy.
The Giants probably overvalued continuity and experience on the offensive line in the 2009-2012 period, and they are paying a steep price now. After watching O'Hara, McKenzie and Diehl struggle for at least a year after they were basically done, nobody should be surprised to see the same thing happen with Chris Snee. The cap numbers are bigger in Snee's case, but that's easily explained without any reference to his family connections.
The elephant in the room, cap-wise, is David Baas. As far as I know, none of his relatives occupy positions of influence in the organization.