This is strictly a personal opinion and for all intents and purposes is a huge rant. Share your feelings as well.
Reese's poor drafting has really hurt the team.
For all the credit Reese gets for putting together the teams that won he deserves most, if not all, the blame for this debacle so far. His drafts have been terrible but everyone turns a blind eye to them. He has had some small success with them but let's not forget the Marvin Austin, Jerrel Jernigan, Mitch Petrus, Matt Dodge, Ramses Barden, Clint Sintim, Travis Beckum and etc. picks in the recent years that were total misses. He also relies too much on patch work players and ignores key positions every year in free agency. LB has been a glaring need for years. OL is weak and has no real strength. Sorry Reese, but your "magic" is fading fast.
There are glaring holes everywhere. The offensive line is weak and old, the DL is old and under achieving, the LB's outside of Paysinger are fringe players that wouldn't be special teamer's else where.
I can't say I don't appreciate what Reese did for us in the beginning of his tenure, but Accorsi was the one who pulled the trigger to land Manning, outside of the first draft class Reese had he has whiffed a lot and his FA signings have been bust as well.
Here's hoping this coming draft he finally addresses serious needs instead of BPA that hasn't really worked out lately.
/rant
I think managing the cap is a little more scientific, and our philosophy has been to put money into offensive skill positions and pass rushers. Our discipline in this regard (Accorsi's and Reese's) has brought us two Super Bowls.
Finally, it's very hard to predict injuries. If Hynoski, Brown, JPP and Baas were healthy, the entire complexion of the team might be different.
JPP is clearly not 100% and if he isn't they need to shut him down for the season.
Let's be real, Bass isn't a good player. He would do very little to help this atrocious OL that has many holes.
baas signing restricts them greatly
and they really are paying the price for winning 2 SB with eli. his cap hit is like 20 million. tough to have a 20 million player, injuries galore and countless misses in the draft and be competitive.
actually everyone says u need the big time QB to win. and i believe that. but how many of them won while they were getting paid the big time money. eli. Ben. Brady. rodgers. brees. Flacco. they all won SB and then got paid. and haven't won since
That is a direct result of Reese. Let's stop living in the past already. it will be 5 out 6 seasons they have missed the playoffs. The 2 SB's are nice but let's call a spade a spade and realize if they don't make some serious changes then they will revert back to those mid 90's Giants and we remember how well they did.
Reese's success is bound to Eli getting hot and the defense playing well when they needed too. The season they actually went 12-4/10-6 they fizzled out hard near the end and faltered because of a lack of depth.
Reese was a great GM over the past 10 years but take the blinders off and look at the facts.
Reese is not getting hammered at all for this debacle of a season when he in fact is one of the main culprits.
On the other hand - I give him more credit for the 12 win 2008 season and the 10 win 2010 season (that had the division in its grasp with 7 minutes left) than I do the superbowl run. That '11 team .. was mediocre... credit to the players for getting hot at the right time but 95% of the time you dont even get a shot to get hot in January when you go 9-7, not to mention Eli carried us all season and in the playoffs and he was an Accorsi pick.
But anyway, as jcn said, even if you discount 2011 - still a hell of a run here. Hopefully we can rebound quickly next year like the Saints & Chargers seemingly have this year -- as long as you have the QB, the 'rebuild' shouldnt take all that long.
And even then - I don't think anyone considered Wilson, Randle, Hosley to name a few - as reaches or stretches. They've all performed well in spots to justify their selections.
You want to say he neglected the OL? Fine, but it's hard to imagine Snee falling off a cliff the way he has. Baas (hard to believe a Giants fan who watches games spells that name wrong) - was a bad FA signing and ultimately on Reese, but he's more the remit of the director of pro personnel who has since moved on to Carolina.
I can't judge this years draft because that's foolish. I will judge the 8 other drafts he has gone through though.
Again, take the blinders off because Reese isn't as grand as everyone is making him out to be when 11' was due to Manning getting hot and 07' was the defense clicking at the right moment.
It's not as if those years they won they were dominant. In fact - in 11' they had to win 3 out of the last 4 to even qualify for the playoffs after starting 6-2. Those second half blues are a common occurrence aren't they?
Don't start trying to be sly and insinuate I don't follow the team. I have been a die hard fan the past 20+ years and endured a ton of bad seasons and have been a season ticket holder now since 2010 after waiting on the list for all those years.
I am extremely grateful for having seen 3 Super Bowls in my lifetime. All kings lose their crown at some point - there is no shame in admitting Reese hasn't been perfect. I just don't want this team to sink to the point where Eli's best years are wasted and we go into a complete gut and rebuild.
The last time Kiwi played on the line he was the best player on the line, then he got injured. So, putting him back on the line instead of linebacker should make the line better. Nope.
Personnel decisions like these aren't all on the GM. They are on the coaches and even the doctors. It just so happened that they were wrong on all of them.
Belichick
Thompson
Loomis
Heck
Even Elway are all great GM's.
Grigson is on his way to becoming a top GM as well after tanking one season and making the playoffs with a rookie QB and starting 3-1 this season.
Link - ( New Window )
Before this season started, did you look at this roster and think we wouldn't compete?
Judging by this roster, this season and near the end of last season do you really think Reese is #1?
This is the least competitive GIANTS team since the "fifteen years of lousy football."
Some of the teams from that era would kick the ass of this lousy team. Arsparger's teams played defense with a vengeance.
Now the GIANTS can't even tackle. Or block.
But when you actually take the end of last season into consideration and this season thus far and look at the roster it doesn't scream promise.
I knew our OL would be our biggest weakness. I never imagined it would be this bad when Eli took the fewest sacks last season.
I also knew our LB's are garbage, but I thought for sure our DL would create the pressure on the QB to alleviate the stress on them. I also had hopes that Rolle and Brown would be a good duo in back end of the defense, unfortunately Brown is hurt.
Webster has been on a decline for a few years and TT has played well and stayed healthy so far.
The only thing I was sure about was that our division was real weak and we could possibly exploit it.
If we lose to the Eagles @ home then you can call it a season.
Link - ( New Window )
GM is one of the biggest factors in a team's success, but not the only one. Injuries, schedule, a hot quarterback, getting healthy for the playoffs, schemes, and many other things contribute. And all that can be laid to waste by an unlucky bounce.
Some of the projects and reaches that Reese has made really make me wonder if he has been too cute for his own good. There is no doubt that he has done a great job on many picks, especially on receivers and DL/CB, though look how many high draft picks he has used on those.
How many years are we going to go and watch him draft guys like Philip Dillard, Greg Jones, Travis Beckum, Barden, Sinorice Moss, Gerris Wilkerson.
For every hit there are like 3 or 4 misses at a clip.
2011 alone: Marvin Austin, Jernigan (he's on his way out), Greg Jones (noted above), Da'Rel Scott (cut today), Tyler Sash.
5 busts in one year. That is almost a Cowboys draft class.
How many years of 6-2 have we seen only to crumble in the second half? If they continue this season playing this poorly we can be without the playoffs 5 out of the past 6 years.
Reese deserves the credit but also deserves the blame.
NYG in NC : 8:17 pm : link
amazing effort by Cruz to turn a 10 yd pass into a 99 yd TD we likely don't even make the playoffs in those years
Round Selection Player Position College
1 19 Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska - starting to turn it on
2 52 Marvin Austin DT North Carolina - LOL CUT
3 83 Jerrel Jernigan WR Troy - LOL
4 117 James Brewer OT Indiana - Too raw
6 185 Greg Jones LB Michigan State -LOL CUT
198 [b] Tyler Sash S Iowa - LOL CUT
202 [b] Jacquian Williams LB South Florida - decent back up
7 221 Da'Rel Scott RB Maryland - LOL CUT
2010
1 15 Jason Pierre-Paul Defensive End South Florida - looks hurt still
2 46 Linval Joseph Defensive Tackle East Carolina - solid player
4 115 Phillip Dillard Linebacker Nebraska - LOL WHO?
5 147 Mitch Petrus Offensive Guard Arkansas - LOL
6 184 Adrian Tracy Linebacker William & Mary - Practice squad all-pro
7 221 Matt Dodge Punter East Carolina - LMAO
2009
1 29 Hakeem Nicks Wide Receiver North Carolina - Hasn't been himself
2 45 Clint Sintim Linebacker Virginia - LOL trash
60 William Beatty Offensive Tackle Connecticut - solid/decent
3 85 Ramses Barden Wide Receiver Cal Poly-S.L.O. - LOL SOFT
100 Travis Beckum Tight End Wisconsin - LOL
4 129 Andre Brown Running Back North Carolina State - Cut once, came back and injury prone
5 151 Rhett Bomar Quarterback Sam Houston State -LMAO
6 200 DeAndre Wright Cornerback New Mexico - LOL WHO?
7 238 Stoney Woodson Cornerback South Carolina - LOL WHO?
2008
1 31 Kenny Phillips Safety Miami (Fla.) - Could have been special - too injury prone
2 63 Terrell Thomas Cornerback USC - see above
3 95 Mario Manningham Wide receiver Michigan - solid player, now injury prone
4 123 Bryan Kehl Outside Linebacker BYU - LOL
5 165 Jonathan Goff Linebacker Vanderbilt - Had one decent year but was lucky to be a special teamer
6 198 Andre' Woodson Quarterback Kentucky -LMAO
199 Robert Henderson Defensive End Southern Miss - WHO?
With OL and LB a huge issue WTF did we draft a QB in the 4th round ???
Too many projects drafted in the higher rounds when these guys would have been available later ...
I've said enough ..
2007: Smith 2nd
2008: Manningham 3rd
2009: Nicks 1st, Barden 3rd & 5th
2010: None
2011: Jernigan 3rd
2012: Randle 2nd
2013: None
That's 8 picks in first 3 rounds on WRs over 7 years, plus a 5th. Then throw in the 4th on Beckum who was mkore WR than TE.
I know there are good players in there, and Smith was a shame. But for me that is just too many picks getting Eli receivers. Over same time, only 3 picks were used on O-line in first 3 rounds and one on a LB (Sintim.)
You haven't successfully made any argument against Reese - you've posted his drafts (which you "pulled from another board" - as if you can't hit about 100 sites to quickly get our draft, this one included) and bitched about the results.
Bottom line - if we finish the year with a losing record, this is the first year during Reese's tenure that we'll have done so. Some high praise for other GMs on this board, like Ozzie Newsome (who's an excellent GM) - but by any measure, Reese has done better, whether it's record or SB appearances/victories.
However, I will say this, our scouting department hasn't done Reese any favors. It goes hand in hand. The reality is no matter how you slice it he has done a pretty poor job. The results or lack there of have spoken for themsleves.
And I like the guy and really respect him...but I call it like I see it and it is was it is.
That draft history is putrid. He gets such high regard as an excellent talent evaluator when he has missed on a lot of his picks. Which was my point that all these whiffs have crippled the Giants right now to the point that they have zero depth and zero talent in certain areas of the team.
He still gets a pass for it based on the 2007 draft (which was an amazing draft class) and hasn't really done much since then.
And again MY BAD I MISSPELLED A GARBAGE CENTERS NAME. If that's what you are going to nitpick on then maybe you need to prove how it isn't an ad hominem attack, it's irrelevant to the argument. Maybe you should instead bring forth some evidence to dispute the fact that Reese has been drafting like crap since 2008. That he isn't and shouldn't be held in such high regard.
As others have said those Super Bowl years have a lot more to do with Eli clicking and the stars aligning at the precise moment.
Not providing proper personnel depth (VIA the draft). Keeping that trash Gilbride as OC.
I can understand giving him a pass with the 2 rings. But if this team stays like this the rest of this season and next then whose fault is it?
We have probably the worst depth in the NFL at the OL, LB, RB and you can probably throw in there the Safety position too.
So everyone who wants to bury their head in the sand and ignor reality please feel free to do so. But at the end of the day what you're looking at is reality....just say'n it is what it is and it's hard to argue with reality!
And JPP at the end of 2011 looked like one of the best picks of the century. I don't know what's going on with him but in a few more losing weeks if his back isn't 100% and there is a danger of him hurting himself then they might as well IR him and play the rookie.
I thought that the Giants reached for Pugh. Even after they drafted him no one was talking about him being a great talent with Pro Bowls in his future. He was solid, reliable, a leader type.
And, in hindsight, drafting a RB was not a good idea in 2012. With the short careers of running backs, you have to have the blockers in place first.
It is that mentality that is behind the "Eli is an elite quarterack, but only until he screws up school of thought.
Petrus fell off a cliff to....to...what, be a rapper or something? We was a nasty dude, and if he didn't just give up, the guy would be what Davis Wilson needs right now.
Austin's a bit of a head case. Sometimes teams are just bad fits. He'll excel elsewhere
And Sintim, we all know about that
How the hell do you call 4th -7th round picks busts.
Sintim was not a good pick due to position in college. You understand the Austin gamble. Beckum was a bad pick because he was beaten up in college before the draft. Barden was drafted for a specific purpose, which the coaches never used him in.
There were 15 LB taken after Dillard: There are 3 currently in the NFL - 1 is a starter. 9 of those were out of NFL after 2012, 4 out after 2011 and 1 in 2010. Only 1 of these players had more than 25 career tackles - the draft is a gamble
he has been GM for 7 drafts here in NY - What 1st round player has he missed on. He has been good on 2's (4 out 6) not counting Randle and Hankins.
You need to get lucky late in the draft. Go look back at the available players and see how many don't make it.
Reese has negatives, but the draft is not 1 of them.
if they look outside of the organization they could look at young up and comers like Nick Caserio or Eric Decosta.
You also never know who is waiting in the wings for an opportunity to run the Giants who is currently with a team.
5 worst drafting teams since 2008 - ( New Window )
As for the other candidates, I asked who would you hire that you would expect to get better results from? That's how decisions like this are made in the real world. If you are making the decision, who would you hire given the options? Which of the up and comers you mentioned have a record that would sway a decision maker to gamble that they will have a better record than Reese on this team? "You never know who is waiting in the wings" means you are willing to wait until (possibly) an unidentified star falls into the pool. But your thread implies you think it needs to happen now or soon. You want it done. If it were your decision, who would you pick at this time?
I also mentioned that hopefully he turns it around this off season, pretty much implying that I don't think he will be let go right now. I do feel that he should say something and address the media/fans one way or another.
Would I be sad to see him go? No. But I do believe he needs to change his whole outlook on the team and change his stance on drafting and FA's at the least if he is still our GM.
Also just because Ross works closely with Reese doesn't mean he will follow step for step what Reese does. This team can still compete with the right pieces in place. We have a QB, we have WR's and we have a very talented albeit raw RB. But if we happen to get a top 5 pick this season we can very easily right the ship and Reese can do a lot to redeem himself this off season.
We are a few players away from being a very good football team again.
It seems apparent they lack talent in several areas. The GM's job is to find and sign talent by whatever means. Yes, the draft and salary cap create parity, so I don't expect the Giants to be near the top every year. But when you fall this far, the GM has to take responsibility, especially since the Giants have what very few bad teams have, a quality QB.
Wilson? I don't think Wilson will ever represent one of the top 10 RB in the league. He is never going to be a move the chains guy. IMO, he's a Reggie Busch - not my cup of tea.
Randle has been hyped when Nicks wasn't in camp, but to be honest, the passing game has sucked despite arguably the best trio of WR in Giants history. So, I can't get myself excited by Randle or Nicks at this point.
If those three players are the sum total of what represents the foundation of the future of this team, the future doesn't hold much promise. This team doesn't have a single player who is the best at his position - arguably not a single player who is top 5 at his position.
Think people are giving up too early on him, because the line is so poor.
Same with Wilson, yes, he fumbled twice vs. Dallas, but since then, he hasn't fumbled at all. He's put up 50-60 yards per game with very limited blocking. I'm not willing to give up on him yet or judge him as not being one to watch yet.
Prince isn't getting any favors done to him by the lack of pass rush either. But he's held up well.
Nobody is as good as they look when winning, and nobody is as bad as they look when losing. A win tomorrow and a Dallas loss and it'll be a different song around here.
My problem with Wilson has nothing to do with his fumbling. My immediate impression of him during pre-season last year was that he is a "home run hitter" that isn't going to consistently move the chains. Imagine two RB who both rush for 100 yards with 20 carries. RB-A has two 50 yard TD runs and 18 rushes of zero yards. RB-B has 20 rushes of exactly 5 yards a rush. Which do I want? RB-B, and it isn't even close. I think Wilson is RB-A.
Bottom line is that I just don't see any premier talent on this team. If I were building a franchise for 2014, I don't believe I would be interested in a single Giants player. Not one.
and the Cowboys lose to the Broncos like I fully expect them to..
optimism will flow through BBI.. as most will realize we are only 1 game out of 1st place despite starting o-4..
Secondly, being one game out of first place tomorrow night would merely be a reflection of the other three teams in the NFC East. It wouldn't mean the 2013 Giants are suddenly good and going to be relevant this year.
however I do think the Bronco's will beat the Cowboys..
and the Eagles are not a good team.. not to say we are either.. we haven't been.. to be honest we looked best week 1 when we turned the ball over 6 times and almost won..
but as I stated.. if the Giants happen to play well. and if they happen to beat this Eagles team..
I think we will see a lot of optimism starting when people realize we're only 1 back..
I'm not saying yet that will amount to anything for the 2013 season.. just that it would probably change the overall attitude on BBI.. even if only momentary..
As for Wilson's ability to grind it out, I'd love to see that, but I think that was going to be Brown's role. I wish they kept "median" stats in addition to average. I think it would be a very telling statistic.
I can't remember the last time the Giants looked this lost and inept. Foles had a ton of time to throw, no pressure again. Offense stalled a lot after the first drive.
WTF was that call to accept the holding call and make it 3rd down instead of 4th? They got 3 points out of it although it wasn't a deciding factor in the game.
With Randle looking like a potential stud I think it is time to sell high on Nicks and get a 2nd rounder or something valuable in return. He isn't going to be resigned and this team isn't going anywhere this season. Be like the Browns and get what you can to rebuild the team. Find a team that needs a quality 1 or a very complimentary #2 and get something for him now.
0-5 and 0-2 in the division with a tough schedule and a visit to Chicago on a short week. I hate the fact the season ended so early.