Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Myers 2012 stat padding and his true talent level

Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/2/2013 11:25 am
Myers' 2012 stats while his team is trailing by 9 pts or more in the 4th quarter...

3 TDs ---------- (1st in NFL)
312 Yards ------ (2nd in NFL)
29 Catches ------ (1st in NFL)
34 Targets ------- (1st in NFL)
85.3 Catch% ----- (2nd in NFL w/ 15+ targets)

Those aren't his ranks among TEs, those are his ranks overall compared to every receiver in the league. In games where the team was down by 2 scores in the 4th quarter last season, Myers had THE BEST STATS IN THE NFL. Only Calvin Johnson has an argument over him in these situations. Myers put up huge numbers in these late game situations where his team was trailing by multiple scores.

1 TD
494 Yards
50 Catches
71 Targets
70.4 Catch%

That's what he did the rest of the time, every other situation besides "down 2 scores in the 4th". He goes from "Best receiver in the NFL" during stat padding situations to "mediocre" the rest of the time.

When we signed Brandon Myers I expected the poor blocking but I also was fascinated with seeing Eli get to throw to a TE who caught 79 passes the previous year and seemed to know how to get open. But based on what we've seen so far and his 2012 compiling, Myers' 79 catches in 2012 do not match his true talent level as a receiver at all.

Poor blocker + Good receiver is acceptable
Poor blocker + Mediocre receiver is not acceptable

Right now, Myers looks like a mediocre receiver. Which kills his value for this team since he can't block either. Hopefully him and Eli get on the same page but I don't see it with Myers, hope I'm wrong though.
I'm hoping they give Larry Donnel more of a chance now.  
Ace718 : 10/2/2013 11:27 am : link
At least he can block a lot better than Myers and Pascoe.
The caveat to this  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/2/2013 11:29 am : link
is that stepping into the offense for the first time can be a challenge for a lot of players. He was not asked to do things in the Raider offense that we do here. A sight-adjustment passing game isn't what he was playing in out west.


Bennett managed to get it quickly, but Ballard was in the system for a year before playing. Louis Murphy hasn't done anything yet. Randle needed about 14 games before getting a chance to play. Cruz had trouble with it too.
Whats really sad  
winoguy : 10/2/2013 11:37 am : link
is this offense right now cant even pad the stats when they're down 3 TDs.
yeah  
Les in TO : 10/2/2013 11:38 am : link
having unfrozen caveman coordinator doesn't help

but myers has had a couple of drops not to mention tripping over his own two feet.

not impressed, and good post on the garbage-time weighted stats.
I said this before he was signed  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/2/2013 11:42 am : link
Last season I picked him up in fantasy and noticed this pattern where he was putting up crazy numbers when the Raiders were down big late and were throwing on every down.

The numbers were in fact, inflated.
while it may be meaningful that so much of his production  
Enzo : 10/2/2013 11:44 am : link
took place late in games in which the Raiders were trailing, the rankings compared to other players isn't really useful without knowing how many snaps they were getting compared to him in similar circumstances. Obviously players on good or even average teams aren't going to have the same opportunity to post the same counting numbers as he did in garbage time if they're not in garbage time to begin with.
the rankings are less important  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/2/2013 11:53 am : link
than the fact that so much of his production comes in these situations, for the reasons you said. But it's still interesting to see the rankings because it helps show even more support for the argument that Myers had a tremendous amount of garbage time stat padding.

Garbage time stats are easy to get, especially when you're a TE compiling short catches when the defense is guarding the big play (Myers' YPC shows he was compiling short catches). That's the main point. Myers lived off of these easy situations and his stats look a lot better than they should be.
Well, with Nicks and Cruz  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/2/2013 11:54 am : link
and the objective of the Giants offense when it's not broken, you'd think those easy catches would be there for him.

If the passing game wasn't crippled, he'd probably be better.
Watching him fall over his own 2 feet  
chrispisano66 : 10/2/2013 12:01 pm : link
against Denver was fun.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 10/2/2013 12:01 pm : link
Myers has been a terrible signing. He's done absolutely nothing in terms of receiving & my 82 year old grandmother could block better than him.
OsiOyx3, I've been writing that he was a garbage time compiler  
Victor in CT : 10/2/2013 12:02 pm : link
catching dump offs from a running for his life Palmer since they signed him. And since it's always garbage time in Oakland he got plenty of chances. He flat out stinks.
he's not the reason the passing game  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/2/2013 12:04 pm : link
is struggling. When the receivers and Eli eventually get in a groove, Myers should be able to capitalize.

But he just doesn't look like anything special at TE. And his receiving skills don't look good enough to make up for his poor blocking. I know this Giants offense is different with the option routes and it could take time to get used to it, but a lot of the mistakes Myers is making are physical like drops.
"Poor blocker"?  
KWALL : 10/2/2013 12:04 pm : link
You're being generous.
Bottom line. I was pissed we did not resign Bennett.  
Johnny5 : 10/2/2013 12:04 pm : link
And now? I'm even WAY more pissed. We hosed ourselves by making completely sure we had sub-par blocking at every position aside from the OL (and we did a great job of fucking that up too). Hynoski's injury is just adding insult to injury. Literally.
Whatever happened to Adrien Robinson  
BigBlueBull : 10/2/2013 12:10 pm : link
Our 4th round TE?

Other notable 4th round TE'S of recent years: Jordan Cameron, Julius Thomas, and the murderer in NE
Those stats explain why he took a dive in the Denver game  
Jimmy Googs : 10/2/2013 12:12 pm : link
we weren't losing enough yet and it was only the second quarter.
We could have kept Bennett  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/2/2013 12:13 pm : link
but suppose keeping Bennett meant losing out on Cruz?

Nobody here would support that.
He's another example of Looks Like Tarzan, Plays Like Jane  
jcn56 : 10/2/2013 12:14 pm : link
Too soft for the TE position.
Bennet isn't worth $20 mil if you have to let go of a Cruz  
Victor in CT : 10/2/2013 12:16 pm : link
in order to fit it under the cap. Not sure he's worth that anyway. A good, but not great player.
Myers stat padding  
mikeshecky : 10/2/2013 12:20 pm : link
If he pads his stats when the team is down big - he should have record breaking numbers so far this year.

Was anyone really expecting him to come in and catch 80 passes in this O? The fact that he was still available in FA and at that price goes to show he wasn't thought of as an 80 catch TE by anyone around the league.
..  
Named Later : 10/2/2013 12:38 pm : link
I think the problem with the Bennett contract wasn't last offseason, but in his original contract with the Giants. Should have had an additional year at a favorable price to the Gmen. He finally has a good QB throwing to him and his stats look great. Then he grabs a big payday with another team.

And that was not the first time Reese has made a mistake on a 1 year contract.
Larry Donnell got a lot of playing time Sunday  
HomerJones45 : 10/2/2013 12:47 pm : link
did you notice him?

Exactly.
We been down by more than two scores every 4th Quarter so far  
WideRight : 10/2/2013 1:03 pm : link
Reese knew exactly what we needed!
The Giants signed Myers for one year as a bridge to the young guys.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/2/2013 1:07 pm : link
Robinson and Donnell may or may not pan out. Either way, they are ultimately the important TEs on this team, not the veteran stopgaps (Myers and Pascoe).
I noticed Donnell  
KWALL : 10/2/2013 1:21 pm : link
I noticed he was getting bent over and knocked back on every run play like Myers.

Myers is overmatched physically. I have no idea what the Tarzan comment was about. He's short. Short armed. Weak. Lacks explosion and power. He looks like Jane and plays like Jane. The "Will Demps Of TEs".

Remember the 3rd and 1 last week? Donnell was out there next to Myers. Donnell gets the job done. Myers is dominated and his guy makes the tackle for no gain.

The week before? Same thing. Jacobs to the outside. Donnell handles the LB. Myers gets dominated by CB Florence. The CB pushed him around. Controlled him. Tossed him. And made the tackle.

It's the same story every week. As a blocker, Myers is much worse than poor. He's a major liability.

Donnell showed much more in his limited time. He out there competing. He's blocking.

It's time. They need to make the change to Donnell full time. Send Myers to the bench. Donnell should start.

The pass catching? Who cares. Just leave Donnell in to help and then let him release. This is what the BEars are doing right now with Bennett. He's pass blocking a lot. Notice anything different with that Bears O? Fewer hits on the QB!
KWALL  
Johnny5 : 10/2/2013 1:32 pm : link
Zactly
I would be careful about 4th quarter stat padding talk  
Mason : 10/2/2013 2:27 pm : link
Myers isn't the first Giants player who has been accused of padding stats in the 4th quarter during the hurry up offense while the other team is in prevent defense.
Yeah, but how many of those guys  
jcn56 : 10/2/2013 2:31 pm : link
did the same for the Raiders? That's the point being made there, his history is being a stat padder.

KWALL - I was trying to be kind. Looks like a TE (somewhat), plays like a WR (and not a particularly tough one).
TE blocking and TE receiving seem roughly equal in importance  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/2/2013 2:49 pm : link
for this Coughbride Giants offensive scheme. Based on the emphasis we place on our WRs and how much help our OL needs to protect Eli.

1-10 scale, let's say blocking = receiving

If Myers is a "3" blocker, he needs to be a "7" receiver to be an average TE. I think in 2012, this was roughly where he was at. But he didn't need to be as strong a blocker for Oakland.

Through 4 games in 2013, he's been a "2" blocker and a "3" receiver. He should improve as a receiver but by how much?

Right now he's terrible, I hope he gets it going soon but I don't think he has the receiving ability necessary to make up for his poor blocking in this offense.
Players on bad teams have less opportunity to not  
chris r : 10/2/2013 2:51 pm : link
Stat pad because their team trails more frequently than average.
doesn't change the fact  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/2/2013 2:53 pm : link
that it's easier to accumulate stats in garbage time. And when a significant portion of a player's statistical value came in this situation, it's fair to express how his impact does not measure up to his numbers.
Maybe if the coaches played fantasy  
mattlawson : 10/2/2013 3:12 pm : link
They would notice these things
you have to be living in a fantasy to think that Myers can  
Victor in CT : 10/2/2013 3:20 pm : link
be a force on a good team. He blows.
ok he's struggling on  
bc4life : 10/2/2013 3:23 pm : link
a bad team and he's new, let's cut him
to be fair  
ed90631 : 10/2/2013 6:15 pm : link
he doesn't call the plays in the fourth quarter, he doesn't decide who to cover in the prevent defense and he isn't the one throwing the ball.

The cliche "the game was not as close as the score would indicate" stems from the use of the prevent.

It doesn't speak well for Jerry Reese if this guy's stats are primarily from garbage time.
Back to the Corner