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Qualities of the Giants next head coach

jcn56 : 10/2/2013 2:57 pm
Whether sooner or later, TC will no longer be the head coach of the NY Giants. This isn't a debate on whether he should go or not.

There tend to be very well defined properties that are used to describe head coaches in the NFL. It seems like whenever someone is hired, the same set of characteristics are used to set him apart from his peers.

1. Players Coach vs. Disciplinarian

Our last two coaches were JF and TC, and they were exactly that, one a player's coach and the other a disciplinarian.

2. Offensive minded vs. Defensive Minded

Most HCs are promoted to that level from the coordinator spot, and are known for their work on one side of the ball.

3. Experience level, college vs. pros

Usually comes in one of two forms, either a head coach at the NCAA level is bumped up to the NFL or an NFL former head coach or coordinator.

4. Retread vs. First Timer

Don't necessarily like the 'retread' moniker since it would apply to guys like Parcells and TC, but that's what's used. First go around as a head coach in the NFL versus having held the position elsewhere.

Using examples given from 1-4, what do you think the Giants will be looking for in their next head coach?

i hope the next coach  
marc in easton : 10/2/2013 3:03 pm : link
Has a great defensive mind and hires a good coordinator. I'm sick of being 32 in D every year. its an insult to tradition
A first-time, young, bright offensive mind  
Kyle : 10/2/2013 3:05 pm : link
Hire a retread crusty old bastard, effectively done as a HC, to whip the defense into shape as DC and hopefully retain him for awhile.
I don't care about any of that really  
pjcas18 : 10/2/2013 3:08 pm : link
I think the coach needs to be a good motivator, a good communicator, and a good leader, and be able to adjust game plans during the game and maybe most importantly beyond that select competent coordinators.

As for offensive or defensive minded, again don't care because I hope they have competent coordinators.

Belichick might be the best defensive mind of our generation, and his teams have had the best or among the best offense the better part of the past 8 years.
I feel bad for the next coach  
bignygfan : 10/2/2013 3:09 pm : link
He has ZERO chance of matching TC's accomplishments.
Agree with Kyle  
Josh in the City : 10/2/2013 3:10 pm : link
would love to see an innovative young offensive coach (maybe from the college ranks). I'd also love to see us hire an aggressive defensive coordinator...a risk taker.
what Kyle said + player's coach  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/2/2013 3:12 pm : link
I guess I prefer disciplinarian to player's coach, but when you're replacing a disciplinarian I'd rather go with the player's coach to help change the culture of the locker room.
He better be Irish Catholic.  
Default : 10/2/2013 3:13 pm : link
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I'd rather have a defensive HC who hires a bright young OC  
Greg from LI : 10/2/2013 3:16 pm : link
And gives him carte blanche to devise a creative offense. In other words, Bill Belichick. COME HOME LITTLE BILL!!!
Cowher  
lester : 10/2/2013 3:17 pm : link
he gets his 2nd title as coach, Eli his 3rd as player....matches TC accomplishments...
pjcas - not that I disagree...  
jcn56 : 10/2/2013 3:18 pm : link
Quote:

I think the coach needs to be a good motivator, a good communicator, and a good leader, and be able to adjust game plans during the game and maybe most importantly beyond that select competent coordinators.


..but I was trying to break out unique features of head coaches. It's sort of implied that any coach you hire would be a good leader, communicator and motivator. When's the last time you saw someone hired and it said 'Great X's and O's guy, but not the greatest communicator'?
players coach?  
marc in easton : 10/2/2013 3:19 pm : link
Lane kiffins available
..  
Jerry in DC : 10/2/2013 3:20 pm : link
1) Adaptability: Being able to craft successful plans under different circumstances. Look at a guy like Mike McCoy, he ran a regular offense in Denver, then switched the entire team to a Tebow offense in 2 weeks, then switched to a Peyton offense, now has Phil Rivers crushing it despite having no OL and mediocre receivers

2) Variability: Doing what works on a game by game or series by series basis. Look at what Belichick has done over the years by mixing it up. Or another example would be what happened when we played at Indy a few years ago. Fewell tried to trick the Colts by playing extra DBs and Peyton just kept on running the ball, even if their initial gameplan didn't call for rushes on 7 out of 8 plays

3) Game management from the Harbaugh/Belichick/Payton school where they actually consider game situations and expected values over rote conventional wisdom born 30 years ago
Today's Head Coach  
Phil from WNY : 10/2/2013 3:23 pm : link
is effectively an executive-level position. He needs to have a vision of the offense and defense he wants to run with enough knowledge of both to direct the efforts of his coordinators.

He also needs to be able to inspire a club through motivational efforts. An enlightened disciplinarian works best in that he runs a tight ship but isn't so dogmatic as to alienate players over immaterial actions.

Organization is extraordinarily important as is talent evaluation.
adaptability is key  
Greg from LI : 10/2/2013 3:24 pm : link
And I think it's Coughlin's biggest weakness. The Giants simply don't make adjustments, either within games or over the course of an entire season. Right now, the TE position is a massive liability for them, so why keep running terrible TEs out there? Why not go to 3 and 4 receiver sets?
#1 is probably  
Rick5 : 10/2/2013 3:25 pm : link
a false dichotomy in a lot of cases. There is plenty of potential for gray between those extremes.
Greg  
Josh in the City : 10/2/2013 3:27 pm : link
well said.
Youth  
PEEJ : 10/2/2013 3:30 pm : link
.
I think the  
Jerry in DC : 10/2/2013 3:33 pm : link
player's coach vs. disciplinarian concept is one that exists more in the minds of fans/media than reality, except possibly for some extreme examples. Probably a lot of it is based on reputation, age, and what the coach looks like. At this level, coaches can related to players and impose discipline.

Is Harbaugh a disciplinarian or a player's coach? He's back-slappy like players coach, but probably a real hardass too. People would say Pete Carroll is a players coach because he claps a lot on camera, but maybe he runs a super-tight ship and is a dick in the film room.
jcn  
pjcas18 : 10/2/2013 3:33 pm : link
I know, I'm just saying I have no preference as to disciplinarian or players coach, offensive mind/defensive mind, etc.

I think those qualities - which you're saying are a given, are all i'd hold the line on, the rest to me is irrelevant for the right candidate.

I hate feeling like after "club fassel" we NEEDED Coughlin's style, and because Coughlin is/was a disciplinarian (and an offensive HC) we need a players coach now and a defensive HC.

If I am Reese (assuming he still is making the decision) or Mara I don't have any preconceived notions about what my head coach should be. I'll know him when I see him.





there's a difference between being a hardass and a martinet  
Greg from LI : 10/2/2013 3:40 pm : link
Parcells was a hardass, but he wasn't a martinet. He rode his players hard for their performance, but he didn't really give a damn about things that didn't affect their play on the field.

Same thing with what I've read about John Madden. He's always had a rep as a very laid-back players coach because he coached the loony-tune '70s Raiders, but he was a stickler for detail on the field. He ran a tight ship in practices, he just wasn't remotely interested in what his players did out of uniform.
coach  
Boatie Warrant : 10/2/2013 3:52 pm : link
1. Players Coach = like Madden
2. Defensive Minded = Belichick
3. Experience level = Pros
4. First Timer

Know any?
Shrewd judge of talent who's quick to make player adjustments  
buljos : 10/2/2013 3:54 pm : link
Whether an offensive or defensive mind, I'm hoping the next HC has a knack for correctly discerning the strengths and weaknesses of players (Giants' players, and opponents' players), devising effective if not innovative game plans to take advantage of them, and then rapidly making the necessary adjustments throughout the game. He won't be predictable. His draft picks will pay off most of the time, because he won't be stubbornly committed to a "value over need" strategy. He won't keep his mouth shut and defer to his Coordinators when he sees adjustments that need to be made, but aren't. He'll take calculated risks on young talent, and use them, realizing that they're bound to make mistakes, but that's how they learn and get better. Loyalty to veterans is important, but not above loyalty to the team, so he won't keep players on the roster after their effective playing days are over.
As soon as Peyton retires  
Vegas Steve : 10/2/2013 3:56 pm : link
I'd hire him as OC

I think he would have an excellent re-pore with our current QB
You may be going through the back door but this thread is still  
wgenesis123 : 10/2/2013 4:13 pm : link
about getting rid of Coughlin. Would you believe otherwise if people on your job started talking about who will replace you whenever you are no longer there.
I'd like the next coach to be  
nicky43 : 10/2/2013 4:13 pm : link
just like TC which actually is very much like Vince Lombardi. So for :

1. Disciplinarian
2. Both but lean towards Defense
3. Old and experienced. With age comes wisdom. When wisdom is applied to experience you lots of WINS.

This is also why I like TC so much. I admit he has turned a little more towards being a players coach than I prefer but I don't think there is a better coach than TC available.

I'd like to see TC stay through 2015 to see if he could continue to get a SB for us every 4 years. The good news is that his contract does extend through 2015 I think.
TC and Lombardi didn't lean defense  
Kyle : 10/2/2013 4:16 pm : link
They were both offensive coaches who installed their own offenses.
wgenesis - absolutely wrong  
jcn56 : 10/2/2013 4:18 pm : link
And the topic of succession happens in large organizations all the time, even when the subject in question is still successful.

GE didn't just sit around waiting for Jack Welch to call it quits, they had a succession plan. I'd be highly disappointed in JR if he didn't manage a list of guys he thought would make good HCs to break out when the situation necessitated a change, whether voluntary or forced.
Kyle  
nicky43 : 10/2/2013 4:27 pm : link
I don't think that because a HC was previously a Offensive coach it means they lean towards the Offense when they become a HC. I think a good HC has to be involved equally with both the Offense and the Defense which is why I said both. But based on Vince Lombardi's biography he did lean towards defense but I admit there were times when he leaned towards offense so it's really hard to measure him. He tended to concentrate on whatever the team needed most at the time as a good HC should do. And frankly, I don't know of any observable facts that would indicate that TC leans Offense. I'd like to know why some think he does?

Is it because he came in with Eli who gave our Offense such a big spark?
Coughlin has been on the offensive side of the ball  
jcn56 : 10/2/2013 4:31 pm : link
his entire coaching career before becoming a HC. He was an OC at the collegiate level. He was a WRs coach. He's credited for the offensive scheme that we run (although it's been pointed out, his offense with Gilbride's modifications and playcalling).
Kyle  
nicky43 : 10/2/2013 4:32 pm : link
Sorry, one more point. I'm no expert but I would think every new HC would install there own offense AND defense if not directly, than indirectly based on who they hire as their Offensive and Defensive coaches. Yes, no?

I also think a good head coach would evaluate the current primary players on the team he is brought in to coach and consider that while determining what types of Offense and Defense they want to install. The major talent on the team could limit what you can and can't do.




jcn  
nicky43 : 10/2/2013 4:37 pm : link
Again, I don't think what type of coach you were previously before becoming a head coach dictates weather you will concentrate on Offense or Defense when you become a HC. In fact, I don't think it has anything to do with it. A good HC should be equally involved in both. Even if you have a HC who game plans the Offense and calls the offensive plays. Does that mean he's not working with the defense the rest of the week or that he does not put as much time in studying the defense during after or before the games?

I don't know that. I don't think anyone of us knows TC's daily schedule.

Quite frankly,  
PeterS : 10/2/2013 4:43 pm : link
I can't think of anyone qualified to take over for TC.
my picks  
Les in TO : 10/2/2013 4:44 pm : link
- player's coach, but one who is attentive to details as well, will get on player's not performing up to par or who take advantage of their niceness: someone like pete carroll

- agnostic about whether he is an offensive or defensive minded coach, as long as he hires the best coordinators available and delegates playcalls to them management to them. I want my head coach focussed on overall planning, strategy, motivation, in-game management and player management

- i would prefer a coach who has nfl experience at some point and in some capacity even if they also are from the college ranks; there have been way too many examples of college coaches who are offered lucrative nfl positions without the nfl experience that don't pan out (spurrier, saban, schiano to name a few); the game and players necessitate a different type of coach.
Naturally, any good HC should be versed in all phases of the game  
jcn56 : 10/2/2013 4:51 pm : link
But just about all HCs lean in one direction or another when it comes to their impact on the game plan. Andy Reid in Philly was all over the offense, but made sure to have a competent DC in Jim Johnson tending to the defense. John Fox is a former DC whose defensive principles are still seen in Denver's defense. I'm sure he's not neglecting the offense, but his defensive background and expertise likely led to him having more involvement with the development of the scheme on the defensive side.
A coach who is a CEO and can build a great staff  
nomad1986 : 10/2/2013 4:56 pm : link
a coach who believes in constant pressure on both sides of the ball. Less thinking more attacking.
Kevin gilbride JR  
spike : 10/2/2013 5:05 pm : link
His father can stay on as his OC
He should be a good judge of coaching talent  
Milton : 10/2/2013 5:08 pm : link
If he can't put together a good coaching staff, it's always gonna be an uphill battle no matter how good he is at everything else.

Perhaps Parcells's greatest strength was his ability to put together a coaching staff and manage it. Coughlin has struggled in this area with the Giants, although he seemed to churn out head-coaching candidates regularly when he was with the Jaguars. With the Giants, he's had to fire one offensive coordinator and two (going on three) defensive coordinators.
Default.  
Blackbeard : 10/2/2013 5:20 pm : link
Name another besides TC.
Fassel, Reeves, H-----y, Parcells, Perkins, McVay, Arnsparger,
Webster, "Goodbye Allie" Sherman, Howell, Owen, Friedman, Andrews, Potteiger, Alexander and Folwell? (-:)
Nomad 1986 and Milton  
Blackbeard : 10/2/2013 5:27 pm : link
have nailed it.
I would think no matter when it happens  
eli4life : 10/2/2013 5:56 pm : link
Whether it be this year or next we should probably have the pick of the litter so to speak since we have an established franchise qb in place.
marc in easton  
Marty866b : 10/2/2013 9:36 pm : link
I know you are kidding but Kiffin was not a player's coach.
Cowher  
VPD72 : 10/2/2013 9:55 pm : link
would be a good fit as a coach.

Player coaches work well. Look at Carroll, the Harbaughs and even Rex Ryan at first.

It also depends on the players though and if you can get a real legit leader in that locker room to really control and keep the players in check.
Cowher has been out of football for 7 years.  
Sarcastic Sam : 10/2/2013 10:14 pm : link
Let's sign Michael Strahan because we need DE help.

How's about Jack Del Rio? We did pretty good with our last Jax castoff...
Cowher would not be a good fit as coach.  
Victor in CT : 10/3/2013 8:15 am : link
1) he's been out too long.

2) his team's have a big penchant for losing as home favorites in the playoffs.

3) Dick Le Beau ain't coming with him.

Enough already with this nonsense.

How about Ray Horton, the Cleveland Def Co?
Has to be a head coach  
mrvax : 10/3/2013 9:01 am : link
who knows how to fit the players he has into a great system. Right now it's the opposite.
Penn State coach Bill O Brien  
Jon T : 10/3/2013 9:36 am : link
is the guy I think who 'checks the most boxes' A leader, teacher smart Offensive coach who Brady and Belichick speak highly of, not sure he's ready to leave PSU yet, his buyout was 8 figures last year and drops to 7 this year; but for the right job he may leave and think he would be high on our list and would seriously consider it since a QB is already in place..
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