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Name a Defensive Player Under Fewell Who Has Overachieved

jlukes : 10/2/2013 3:26 pm
Was listening to Sirius NFL Radio today and they were talking about how the new Browns defensive coordinator has taken a bunch of unknown players (outside of guys like Hayden and Kruger) and crafted one of the top defenses in the league.

Mike Zimmer in Cincinnati has turned several lesser players into near-household names.

So, I started thinking about the Giants defense. Lots of names, but no results.

So it is bad enough that we have guys playing below expectations -- but when was the last player to consistently perform above expectations under Perry Fewell?

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It is a fair criticism, imv  
JonC : 10/2/2013 3:27 pm : link
The inverse is closer to truth, a big number of underachievers.
stevie brown  
marc in easton : 10/2/2013 3:28 pm : link
Last year
Chase Blackburn  
Blue Baller : 10/2/2013 3:28 pm : link
Stevie Brown
JonC - on their own, a lack of overachievers  
jlukes : 10/2/2013 3:29 pm : link
or an abundance of underachievers is pretty damning.

We are dealing with both.
Stevie Brown  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 10/2/2013 3:29 pm : link
...
jason pierre paul  
NoPeanutz : 10/2/2013 3:29 pm : link
.
jlukes....  
Hades07 : 10/2/2013 3:30 pm : link
...hard for a player to play beyond expectation is a react defense. I really hate this kind of D. I understand that they won a SB with it. I understand that it has often been very good in the NFL. I just don't like it. Makes the D look soft. Plus, it seems to me to be effective you need a very athletic MLB. Which the Giants obviously don't have.
Stevie Brown and Chase Blackburn?  
jlukes : 10/2/2013 3:31 pm : link
I'll give you Stevie Brown since he at least created some turnovers - but Brown also regularly blew coverage assignments because he was caught looking at the QB rather than staying with his man or getting into his zone.

Blackburn overachieved? Well if you expected him to play below average and he was serviceable, then I guess that is overachieving.

It is also setting the bar REALLY low.
chase blackburn  
alligatorpie : 10/2/2013 3:31 pm : link
.
maybe even  
marc in easton : 10/2/2013 3:32 pm : link
Markus Kuhn. he seemed very serviceable until he got injured. Way more than you'd expect from a 7th rounder thrown onto the field
yeah, I wouldn't really count Brown  
Greg from LI : 10/2/2013 3:34 pm : link
Snagging a bunch of right-place-right-time picks doesn't offset overall mediocre play. It's fair to say he overachieved because no one expected anything at all from him, but he still wasn't very good.
Wow, do you guys realize how low you are setting the bar  
jlukes : 10/2/2013 3:35 pm : link
Blackburn and Kuhn? Really?

Talk about low expectations.
Stevie Brown,  
AnishPatel : 10/2/2013 3:35 pm : link
and you can say JPP. But double teams and playing with injuries last season hurt his production. Now he looks to be a shell of himself, and still battling injuries. Brown it sucks because I wanted to see how he does in year 2 in this system.

We can say Prince too. But overall I doubt we had a lot of players who overachieved.
Holy crap.  
Curtis in VA : 10/2/2013 3:36 pm : link
You're kidding with the Kuhn comment right?
Prince and JPP were Top 20 picks in their respective drafts  
jlukes : 10/2/2013 3:37 pm : link
no way you can count them in this.
Anish,  
Curtis in VA : 10/2/2013 3:37 pm : link
yeah but JPP and Prince are 1st round picks. You expect them to play really well.
List  
ZoneXDOA : 10/2/2013 3:38 pm : link
Stevie Brown
Antrell Rolle
Michael Boley
Chase Blackburn
Ryan Mundy
Aaron Ross
Prince Amukamura
JPP
Kiwi

All have been outstanding for us. Albeit at different times due to injury and absence. But this year the Defense is lights out until they run out of gas after being on the field for 45 minutes out of 60. We need to stop worrying about the Defense and start talking about this year's offense.
We let Blackburn go because he wasn't all that.  
MOOPS : 10/2/2013 3:38 pm : link
We brought Blackburn back because what was left sucked gorilla balls.

Stevie Brown? Sometimes when you play center field people hit fly balls to you.
good point  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/2/2013 3:38 pm : link
but who do you think are the players who have underachieved?

Webster comes to mind first but outside of him and maybe Rolle, which player has really underachieved due to Fewell? Tuck's not underachieving due to scheme. Our shit LBs aren't underachieving due to scheme.

Not a Fewell fan but a lot of the blame should be placed on the defensive talent on top of the scheme.
Zone,  
Curtis in VA : 10/2/2013 3:40 pm : link
key words you're missing in your list are "overachieve" and "consistently"

And you can't include first round picks like JPP, Kiwi, and Prince.
And Ryan Mundy?  
Curtis in VA : 10/2/2013 3:40 pm : link
C'mon.
I'd say Stevie Brown is the only one  
AnotherGiantsFan : 10/2/2013 3:40 pm : link
I called him out for his blown coverages as much as the next guy, but he was seen as a stellar special teams player and that's it. He overachieved.

Underachievement, hmmm. That's a good way of looking at it. I think Canty and Osi are having better years than they had last year. They are also being utilized in a 3-4 scheme I believe.
Zonexd - you and I must have very different views  
jlukes : 10/2/2013 3:41 pm : link
On what overachieving is

Depends  
Jerry in DC : 10/2/2013 3:41 pm : link
on what you mean as overachieved. Obviously this post is intended to attack Fewell, so the parameters are such that nobody will qualify. It will either be, "he's an early round pick, so he's supposed to be good" or "he's a late round pick but not that good".

Linval Joseph has turned into a good player, probably above expectations for where he was picked in the draft. But I'm sure that won't count.

Prince is a good player, I'm sure that won't count.

Stevie Brown undeniably overachieved, but we've already established that he doesn't count.
JPP was a top 5 Defensive player in the NFL  
NoPeanutz : 10/2/2013 3:41 pm : link
in 2011, his second year. That's probably over-acheiving.
The underachievers are  
Jay on the Island : 10/2/2013 3:41 pm : link
Rolle, Tuck, Webster, Ross, JPP, Austin, Jacquian Williams, and Linval Joseph to an extent.
You have to say  
pjcas18 : 10/2/2013 3:42 pm : link
Stevie Brown overachieved unless you're just trying to discredit anything the defense does under Fewell. No one expected anything at all from Brown other than to spell Rolle or Phillips. He was not a fit for the Deon Grant role.

Look at the Buffalo D when Fewell was there, Stevie Brown fits the epitome of what Fewell likes to do.

I don't give a guy with one off the league leading interception total up to luckily being in the right place at the right time.
Way  
AcidTest : 10/2/2013 3:42 pm : link
too much criticism of S. Brown IMO. Brown was a UDFA LB who switched to safety in the NFL. Yes, he blew some coverage assignments, and a few of his INTs were the football equivalent of easy fly balls. But he also had a real nose for the ball, and anticipated a lot of throws. I am eager to see him on the field next season.
Rolle is a given on underachieving  
AnotherGiantsFan : 10/2/2013 3:42 pm : link
But I also think he's overrated to begin with, so it's shaky grounds.
Curtis,  
AnishPatel : 10/2/2013 3:44 pm : link
Yeah but I learned that sometimes a system change can make a player play much better. True their first rounders, but I think of Webster under Tim Lewis. He wasn't good at all and I remember reading report that Lewis would always yell at him.

In come Spags, and Webster's play took off. He became a totally different player from then on. So this can even happen with first rounders.
Who overachieved under Spags?  
Damon : 10/2/2013 3:45 pm : link
?
And JPP  
Jerry in DC : 10/2/2013 3:46 pm : link
absolutely overachieved for a year. He was a mid-1st round pick who played damn near DPOY level.
The problem with that question is  
GMANinDC : 10/2/2013 3:47 pm : link
What kind of talent has the Giants had on defense that has stayed healthy enough to overachieve..

None of the LB'ers have been healthy more than 3 games it seems to make a difference..Hill and Sash has been suspended..Hosley keeps getting banged up..J Williams, Rivers, and Paysinger has been hurt most of their time here..So who else is out there..

i can see if they have had some guys on the team for a few years, healthy and able to contribute but that has not been the case..i think this not a fair criticism of Fewell..
Kawika Mitchell under Spags.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 10/2/2013 3:47 pm : link
He was 100% dogshit on the KC Chiefs.
Damon  
jlukes : 10/2/2013 3:48 pm : link
Gibril Wilson
Kawika Mitchell
Jay Alford
RW McQuarters
Sam Madison
Reggie Torbor
So a guy overachieving for one year  
jlukes : 10/2/2013 3:49 pm : link
and then playing like crap for two other years is okay with you guys?

Man, I wish I could go through life with such low expectations.
Spags hasn't done much since he left here has he.  
Curtis in VA : 10/2/2013 3:50 pm : link
Makes you wonder if he was the overachiever.
Acid  
Jay on the Island : 10/2/2013 3:50 pm : link
Stevie Brown was not undrafted. He was a 7th round pick.
Kevin Dockery  
Jay on the Island : 10/2/2013 3:50 pm : link
was also a solid nickelback under Spags.
Its pretty much the same thing lol  
Curtis in VA : 10/2/2013 3:50 pm : link
.
Kawika Mitchell had  
Semipro Lineman : 10/2/2013 3:50 pm : link
back to back 100 tackle seasons on the Chiefs in 2005 and 2006.
Link - ( New Window )
And  
Jerry in DC : 10/2/2013 3:50 pm : link
you would discredit that entire Spags list, except possibly Wilson, if you applied the same standards as you are during this Fewell exercise.
Jay.  
AcidTest : 10/2/2013 3:51 pm : link
Thanks. Didn't know that. I think he started with Indy.
Some of you have low expectations  
NY-Fan : 10/2/2013 3:51 pm : link
First round picks don't count but if you want to throw JPP out there he has under achieved now. This season and last season he has fallen off. The only player under Fewell that has played better then you would thing or overachieved is Brown. Fewell gets nothing out of his players and he sucks as a DC. I can't stand his defensive approach.
Fred Robbins  
dep026 : 10/2/2013 3:51 pm : link
was another Jlukes.

As far as the last 3 years, Ill say Stevie Brown, he may not have been great, but he was a very good ST players for us who created TOs. No one expected anything close to that when we signed him.
I agree that Stevie Brown  
Mighty : 10/2/2013 4:02 pm : link
should be considered an overachiever. JPP was touted as an athletic freak of nature who was expected to dominate although he was probably not expected to put it together as quickly as he did. I still wouldnt call that an overachiever but more in line with his potential. the same for Prince he was touted as a top 10 pick that fell into our laps.
How about while DC with the Bills...  
bob in tx : 10/2/2013 4:04 pm : link
Kelsay,Schobel and Byrd were 2nd round picks but I think Byrd certainly over-achieved and probably Schoebel.I liked Kelsay but some might include him. Maybe Terrence Mcgee as well as a 4th round pick.
"not expected to put it together as quickly as he did."  
NoPeanutz : 10/2/2013 4:05 pm : link
That's pretty much how I define overacheivement. Achieving beyond expectations.
Our linebackers  
jcn56 : 10/2/2013 4:06 pm : link
They're in the NFL, so by virtue of even getting a uniform most of these guys have overachieved.
lukes  
JonC : 10/2/2013 4:08 pm : link
I was being semantical, indeed.
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