In response to a Giants fan who had called in to complain about the play calling of the Giants, stating, "Me and my friends(his language not mine) can predict every call"
Mike simply said, "You don't win in the NFL with deception, you win with execution." Francesca then went on to site several successful dynastic runs where the teams ran the same plays over and over, challenging anyone to stop them, no one could.
I think he made a very valid point, and is why I have never joined in on the criticism of Gilbride. I find it difficult to understand how fans in the seats or watching on tv believe they can actually make a valid assessment of play calling, especially when you are second- guessing someone with the resume of Gilbride.
The same slow developing deep routes that worked in 2011, aren't going to be as efficient behind this injured, patchwork line.
A pass play where Brandon Myers is tasked with single-blocking Tamba Hali can be criticized.
DaRel Scott having 20 snaps a game be criticized.
Allowing your QB to be sacked 7 times in a half can be criticized.
The game plan of throwing 56 passes in gale winds against the Redskins in winter can be criticized.
I am not the only one who has mentioned the fact that going up tempo or no huddle would help this young OL and help Eli. After all, as we all know, Eli runs this well yet we never see it.
I agree completely about the execution still that does not excuse the recognition that going no huddle would help this offense. Our best drive last Sunday, outside of the long pass to Cruz, was our no huddle which led to the missed field goal.
even the names of various strategies, such as "misdirection," indicate that
plays that are run over and over have options that make them effective, so that if a defense overcommits they get burned
With the D-Line beating up our running game, linebackers are able to focus more on coverage and not bite on the fakes to the RB. There are far bigger issues than Gilbride.
My biggest issue w/ him is his refusal to go into the 2 min. drill more often. I know they said they tried this a few times in KC but went 3 and out, but they should do it from the star. Kickstart this offense from the beginning.
He also subs too much. Let players get in a rhythm. Give a guy 3 series in a row. Wilson needs to be utilized. Try an end around or a reverse. ANything that can try to slow down the pass rush, if the screens are not working.
Also, if there is an incomplete pass on 1st down, you don't need to run the ball every single time on 2nd down. This is why we are in 3rd and long often. Incomplete first down, everyone knows the run is coming and a loss of 2 or 3 on 2nd down. 3rd and 13 Sometimes, you can throw it 3 downs in a row. The media keeps discussing how bad we have been on 3rd down. This is true, but the looming reason for this is because we are so bad on 1st and 2nd down that we are constantly in 3rd and long situations.
If you don't think the Petyon Manning's, Tom Brady's and Drew Brees's and their offenses don't try to mix it up and making adjustments to keep Defenses off balance then you're not watching enough football.
Hell Peyton said the same damn thing this week in an interview.
on the last scoring drive ..
Eli was running the same pass play over and over again and dallas could not stop it
Its one of the oldest truths in football. I've played in games, which we won easily, running basically 2 plays.
The reason teams make adjustments is to make plays harder to execute. Its not rocket science guys.
And please tell me when the hell that shotgun draw play that he calls at least six times a game has worked?
That pitch was a headscratcher though
These guys just don't look like they're ready on any given play, and part of that has to be on the coaching staff since that's their primary job.
Watch the Saints by comparison. If there is a better offensive coach in the NFL than Payton I don't know who it is.
This year's problem seems to be both execution and coaching. Both have to be better.
This not being done with our personnal
EX. D. Wilson is not the best pass blocker in the world, so why are we calling plays that require him to do what he is terrible at?
EX. Why are we calling 5 and 7 step drops when it clear to all the world we can’t protect Eli?
EX. Why are we asking Snee to pull when he's clearly unable to do this effectively.
I agree with Franny when he says it’s all about execution. He is correct, no question about it. However if the execution is not there is it due to a lack of talent or poor coaching or both?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Good coaches do things differently depending on their personnel. In 2008 we had a great OL. In 2013 we don't. Adjustments need to be made.
And it's not like this is some historically bad OL. Eli has the tied-3rd most sacks in the league with 14. Roethlisberger has 15. Brees and Flacco have 12.
I guess if you think that we have the worst offensive personnel in the league then you'd think our coaches are doing a good job. Otherwise, you'd have to ask some questions.
You hear "fans" say this all the time, but it is B.S. The guys who say this are ones who sit there saying the Giants are going to pass (or run) on this play, then congratulate themselves when they are correct 50% of the time. That is not predicting the play. There are so many different passes and so many different runs in an NFL playbook. And they are run out of different formations, and they change based on the QBs and receivers reads. Plus, many of the plays are designed to look like one another so het there is a bit of deception that keeps the defense guessing.
But the main point is that it is execution that is killing the Giants right now. These are the same plays that the Giants have been using for the past 10 years, scoring over 400 points per season in recent years. Gilbride did not all of a sudden become stupid. He is, and has been, a very good offensive coordinator. But right now, the offensive line and TEs are not blocking (on runs and pass protection) as they have in past years. RBs are either not decisive enough (Wilson) or quick enough (Jacobs) to hit the hole and run to daylight. TE's (Myers) are tripping in the open field. WRs (are dropping passes (Nicks) or cutting off their routes (Randle). We've been playing without a healthy (Hynoski) or adequate (Pascoe) FB. Eli has been forcing throws. Fix these mistakes in execution and the playcalling will seem much, much better.
If the defense knows what is coming and can have the perfect call called to stop every play, that would be a huge advantage for a defense. That is why teams hire quality control coaches who monitor such things and tendencies to ensure things don't get too predictible and to identify tendencies for their opponents so that the team can try and exploit them.
I'm not saying that it doesn't mostly come down to execution, but go ask Parcells or BB if having the opponent know what you are doing isn't an advantage. It is not even just the plays called on Sunday where there is advantage. A team that is predictible is easier to prepare for. And the more things a player needs to watch for or think about, the more the mental play can inhibit a player's natural ability.
You just sound so DUMB thinking you are more qualified to evaluate the plays we run.
In the six seasons Gilbride has been the OC, the Giants offense's average rank in points/game is is 7.8th. Ignoring Gilbride's first season, the last five years (excluding this season), the Giants have an average rank of 6.6th. So, since Gilbride has been here, the Giants offense has an average rank of ~7th in points per game. That seems really good. But it's basically the 78th percentile which is nothing special. More than that, we have what many consider to be a HOF-bound QB, elite, and among the best, and he hasn't missed a game. Yet the Giants cracked the top 5 in points scored just once under Gilbride, and it was back in 2008.
This year, we rank 30th through 4 games, ahead of only the Buccaneers who are struggling to run a similar system to ours, and the Jacksonville Jaguars who don't have a quarterback.
Of course execution is important, and anyone saying anything different shouldn't be listened too.
Further, anyone arguing that our offense isn't "creative" enough shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm ok with the idea that we have been figured out, but it's not as if KG is a 3 yeards and could of dust type of OC.
The real issue, and the one that reasonable people are debating or trying to wrap their heads around, is whether or offense is too reliant on QB and WR's being on same page. As PaulBlake just stated, and it is a great point, what good is all of this HC/OC/QB consistency if we still see the QB throwing to a spot where there are no WR's (only DB's) because they weren't on the same page?
And despite all of our lofty offensive stats, even a quick look at the game by game logs for the past few years will show a lack of consistency regarding offensive output. Sure, the numbers look great in total and add up to nice ranking, but when you put up 49 one week and can't reach 17 the next (and look bad in the process)... that is not a recipe for a consistent team.
A secondary, but important issue, is whether KG/TC (and maybe even Eli) have appropriately adjusted the gameplans/playcalling to account for the current makeup of the team. As others have pointed out, it doesn't seem to make sense to run 5 and 7 step drops, and have the WR's run long pass patterns when your O Line is struggling.
One would think shorter pass plays, moving the pocket, 4 WR sets, and hurry up offense might make sense given the current personnel... yet to my untrained eye, i am not seeing it (or enough of it). It seems to me like we are doing the same thing we've done for years, results be damned... and that does concern me as well.
Simple, teams get predictable.
I think we have the potential to be creative. I have seen it in our running game with Gilbride and in our passing game. Since that GB game, I haven't seen that well designed screen play ran again.
After the BYE week is a good time to see any tendency breakers added to the offense.
The problem isn't predictable play calling, it's predictable routes. Route running is all about deception. I just think it needs to be mixed up some. You can keep the route trees in but limit them. Some plays just have to be designed that X receiver runs a go no matter what, Y receiver runs an in no matter what, etc. IMO, you'd see an improvement.
Any less is a failure. The Danny Kanell throwing to Chris Calloway days are long gone. That's why I do not hold Gilbride in awe as much as some here.
However, you put together the best Offensive coach and best skill players and useless/injured/old Oline, you will get shit out as Tom Coughlin has proven.
After two Super Bowl wins it now seems we consistently suck in all areas. I can't understand this season. We are not only getting no victories, we are getting our butts kicked and we shouldn't.
. I don't believe in attacking an enemies strength. It would appear to hit them "where they ain't" would be best.
that's consistency alright...consistently inconsistent.
I am tired of the excuses and defending KG, I want results.
People have been complaining for yrs about the same issues we still are experiencing. Where is the progress?
SHO'NUFF you continuously shrink the sample size to fit your opinion. Being top 10 in scoring means exactly what it means. Lets not forget the beatdown in SanFran last year. The oline was clearly struggling towards the end of the season.