|Ralph Vacchiano & #8207;@RVacchianoNYDN 1m
David Diehl says he will be starting at right guard. #NYG
kidding? Smoke screen?! Smoke.. oh crap. Let's see if he can make a difference. At this point, toss him in and see if he can still ball.
I assume its over Brewer. Why not put Diehl at LG and move Boothe to center and Cordle's worthless ass to the bench?
the line has been so bad, watching Diehl try to play won't look any worse than what we've already seen.
Does Diehl walk without a limp?
one washed up vet for another. Chalking up another L already!
that means Brewer goes back to the bench?
You could justify firing Coughlin just for that. What is his love affair with aging veterans who can't move anymore? His refusal to acknowledge that Diehl, Snee, and Baas are DONE is sheer stubbornness. Was Brewer that bad? I don't think so, and in any event, Diehl has been AWFUL at guard, and hasn't played in six weeks.
This is mindless.
he might be the Giants best OL on Sunday
At the end of the year, they're either going to force him to adjust or let him walk. But he's going to go out on his own terms.
looked noticeably worse at guard than he did at tackle.
I admit though I'm not well trained in OL evaluation, I could see him getting knocked back in pass protection and being ineffective run blocking.
I'd suggest move Pugh to RG and have Diehl play RT, but that's just as dangerous for Eli.
and had the worst rushing offense in the league
I welcome him back and expect good things
He's still getting the hang of playing RT, I don't think it would be wise to move him. He needs time to learn the position.
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 4m
Jim Cordle will remain at center. Kevin Boothe at left guard. James Brewer back to the bench, players say. #NYG
I was scared we were going to start winning and screw up our draft spot. Good to see the coaches are committed to the end goal.
we play Beatty at LT, Brewer at LG, Boothe at C, Diehl at RG, and Pugh at RT..
I assume doubtful.. but I'd prefer that over..
Beatty at LT, Boothe at LG, Cordle at C, Diehl at RG, and Pugh at RT..
has to be one smart guy. Because physically he does not belong in the NFL. Id rather have Booth at Center and let Brewer develop at the other guard spot.
of the season has begun.
Also, there are unconfirmed reports Eli bought a new disability insurance policy this afternoon.
And Diehl at RG is better than a combo of Booth/Brewer/Diehl?
Cordle should be starting a landscaping company with Da'rel Scott long about now.
Meet Dave Diehl's ass. It's about to be pushed into your lap repeatedly.
I just don't get it. And this is from a HUGE Dave Diehl fan. I don't care how well he knows the system, he, like Snee, is no longer the same guy physically. He's not gonna get it done. We may be ok this week because the Eagles' D has been brutal.....but this is not an NFL starter anymore. Let the young guys play.
has run out of rope IMO.
Diehl is an injured, aging, veteran who hasn't played in six weeks, played badly at guard in the past, and is still nursing his broken thumb.
Brewer is much younger, healthier, and looked decent against KC. Some of his mistakes can also be attributed to a lack of playing time. At an absolute minimum, he's better than Diehl.
But why should we be surprised? Locklear was playing better last year than Brewer has this year, and Coughlin still benched him in favor of Diehl. And look how that worked out.
And not only does this hurt the offense, it makes it harder for us to learn whether Brewer is part of the long term solution. He's in his third year and we still don't know whether he can play. All because of Coughlin's stubborn insistence on playing Diehl and Snee.
What was the point of drafting Mosely and Brewer? lmao.
He is developing nicely into another worthless middle round pick.
probably want one interior lineman who knows the protection calls, on each side of the line.
the giants had a significant lack of beat up, well past their prime liabilities on the offensive line who were only still there because of past success and veteran fielty by the coach. glad to see that debt was rectified. shaun o'hara should stay close to the phone, one more injury on the line and he may get a call.
if you're gonna play him....do so at LG so we can at least get rid of Cordle.
I think the theory the coaching staff must be working under is eliminate mental errors at the expense of some physical ability (i.e., shift people around less/play vets) and you will improve play. That would be true if we were talking about sacrificing a bit of a physical ability. In this case, I think we're sacrificing physical ability entirely....which will just result in failure for a different reason.
The answer this staff does not seem to contemplate ever is adjusting your approach to accommodate the young guys. Make it possible for them to perform without the mental errors by simplifying their jobs.
I got nothing except to say...even Diehl might be an upgrade now.
Is the season officially over yet?
Agree. Also Diehl can help out Pugh as far as knowing what to do, like Snee was probably doing.
But if Diehl is playing RG, I'd rather see Brewer at LG, Boothe at C and Cordle nowhere near the field.
Get any worse so why the hell not
and meets the classic definition of "insanity."
I believe that if we had not crapped around with over-valuing versatility over mastery of a position, some of our younger more athletic o-linemen might not be totally clueless.
Eli didn't have to go far. He got a good deal at Met Life.
just when you think it couldn't get any worse, here comes the turnstile back into the lineup, and Cordle gets to start again too. Fucking hell.
Means we're one step closer to Clowney!
In all seriousness though...why not just play the young guys? Let's see what they got. We know what we got in Diehl.
because it directly harms Eli.
Sometimes Coughlin's really hard to understand.
so i'm not even mad.
I think it's stupid and this team needs to start seeing what it has in some of these young guys.
I also know that Tom is going to use Jacobs more than Wilson this week, which I will definitely still get mad at while watching the game
And stick it on the line. Probably block better than diehl at this point. Good giant but its over
Our line has actually been so bad that I almost think Diehl might make it a little better. I never, ever, EVER thought I would say that.
mine and 98 percent of BBI's feelings. Turn to the 18 second mark. Link
- ( New Window
can it actually get any worse?
The line's been so bad that I can live with giving Diehl a shot. What baffles me is sitting Brewer instead of Cordle. Cordle is incredibly bad.
boy looks like another drunk Sunday afternoon
If you want to just link a certain time of the video, all you have to do is pause at that time (18 seconds) right click the video and there should be something that says "Copy video URL at current time".
Just throwing it out there, it comes in handy.
islander.. I've had a really tough time getting through work these past few Mondays because of the Giants and the amount of alcohol they've forced me to consume on Sunday afternoons.
The BBI contingent led by arcarsenal already made up their minds that this team was better off wen he got hurt. This must just be the coaches showing favoritism again! They don't know anything!
Who is trying to defend the Coaches with this decision
Just give me te tough guy who wants to win in a matchup between Diehl vs. Brewer. Easy choice for me
... the front office and the coaching staff. We have all seen Diehl play the past two seasons and it has not been pretty. It's actually dangerous for the franchise (i.e. Eli). If Diehl is a better option than Brewer at this stage of their careers than that only reinforces the point about mismanagement.
At times being stubborn work in Coughlin's favor, while other times it doesn't. I am confident that this decision will result in the latter.
LOL.. nice, I was the "leader" of the anti-Diehl contingent?
Make no mistake. David Diehl still absolutely sucks. No one who has asserted that has been proven wrong about anything. The fact that he may suck less than the guys we have healthy right now certainly is really nothing to hang your hat on if you're a pro-Diehl guy.
But.. have at it, I guess.
Just going back to wen Diehl first got hurt an how everyone acted like it was a blessing in disguise. Knowing this OL had just about no depth, I just think its been proven that we could've used a healthy Diehl all this time. Certainly wouldn't have made things any worse.
...the crap you read on this board is puzzling. Diehl fucking blows at this point
because he knows the protection calls, it might be time to simplify said calls so that everyone can understand them.
You may want to hold off on calling people out until you see how Diehl plays this weekend.
But we have had the worst o-line in the league through the first 4 games. Cant hurt to see what Diehl's got left. Eli has been getting killed regardless who is in there up to this point.
Please don't let Eli have a butt fumble.
Please don't let Eli have a butt fumble.
He can be worse, but it can't much worse than this.
before I freak out. NFL coaches know more than BBI coaches.
Beatty-Brewer-Boothe on the left side was the lineup for our best offensive output of the season. Why we have not gone back to that blows my mind.
So now Snee is finished. Why is Mosely not an option? Is he that clueless he can't get a look over a washed up Diehl who was never any good at guard anyway? This team is 0-4, we know what Diehl is/isnt at this point. If Mosely sucks that bad, then you can go back to Diehl. Isnt this what you have practices and coaches for?
We have a young, strong, healthy guard on the roster but he was hurt last season so that makes him a rookie again this year and incapable of playing? Coughlin's offensive line decisions really cost this team in 2010 and 2012.
Conservative decisions like these are why this roster and this team is where it is right now.
but it should be so boothe can play center.
I'll be pulling for him Sunday, glad to have him back. Our OL is depleted, you saw the names of the guys they bright in Tuesday. Maybe you guys will get lucky and he'll get hurt again.
but not surprising with these coaches. If we lose on Sunday, we really have to try out the younger guys.
is because Coughlin insists on playing over the hill olinemen (Baas,Snee and now DD)
Why was it crazy for the coaches to think they had a starter with him prior to this knew injury? Baas isn't over the hill just always injured. Not defending him but there term "done" is overused.
but then again, so does our OLine. Should be an interesting battle on Sunday to findout who sucks just alittle bit less. Hopefully, it's the Giants.
have to wonder how infuriating this move is to Reese. He's apparently miffed that Coughlin won't play the "young guys." And now he's playing Diehl instead of Brewer. But as I said, we saw the same thing last year with Locklear, and he was playing better than Brewer.
what's the source of that info that Reese is miffed at Coughlin sticking with vets? Was that inferred from a public statement?
with Coughlin getting fired at the end of the year. Diehl has done nothing in 3 years to earn a starting spot on the OL, yet Coughlin keeps handing him the role without anything remotely close to a competition.
What exactly are Coughlin and Gilbride doing in the pictures that Diehl has?
It can't be that bad.
If that is the thinking, then Diehl at RG would be temporary. If Snee goes to IR, and he may still go to IR this week, then Brewer would move in as a season long replacement for Snee, possibly permanent next year.
Then, they would evaluate Diehl's performance weighted against Cordle's performance and decide whether they should play Diehl, Boothe, Brewer or Boothe, Cordle, Brewer.
Besides, they are probably reluctant to make too many changes this week.
that is Diehl at RG, Brewer at LG, Boothe at C and Cordle to the bench but Diehl starting over Brewer is just stupidity. His loyalty to aging and ailing vets who are no longer getting the job done has been his one fatal flaw. Usually the consequences are minor but we are paying a big price for it this season.
Don't bother trying to rationalize it. It's Coughlin decision.
exactly what we knew would happen. If the guy is on the active roster he's going to start no matter what. It does help the "Scott was cut to force Coughlin to use Wilson" conspiracy theorists. So there's that.
if you see DD crossing the street please to run him over with your car.
I completely agree. With the talk of Diehl potentially starting, I was almost certain it would have meant Boothe to center and Diehl to LG.
|Im asking Giants fan in the ny/nj area
Rob_MTL : 3:40 pm : link
if you see DD crossing the street please to run him over with your car.
is getting the lube ready
of Diehl today... Giants.com
- ( New Window
Saw him on an injury list.
Diehl has really struggled the past 3 seasons and even in his prime he played really poorly at guard.
No, Mosley is not injured anymore...that was a couple of weeks ago.
Diehl is playing because of what you see in that video.
over the better part of the last 4 seasons is astonishing.
I really don't know what Tom is thinking.
in broadcasting or probably a job in the front office or on the coaching staff someday.
is more suitable to him falling down while pass blocking but always having Coughlin there to pick him up.
Have fun Eli.
Other than that, I'm not sure why the Giants need to make an announcement that Diehl will be starting at right guard. Why not leave it a mystery? Belichick would not approve!
Dead serious. He brings leadership, experience, intensity, and toughness to a line that needs it right now.
Look, Diehl's best days are behind him now and he will be rusty to boot, but he's not as bad as everyone on this thread seems to suggest.
BBI tends to focus on one guy each season as the root of all evil.
that if the situation gets desperate, he has prepared a list of street FAs he'd like to see brought in.
listen to Beatty, Cordle, Pugh, Brewer being interviewed and compare it to Diehl. Diehl's ready to go out in the parking lot right now.
I'd love to tailgate and reminisce about his glory days with the team. One of my favorite Giants of the past 20 years. I just cringe at trotting him back out there at G.
at least it's at guard, not tackle, but basing it on how amped he is to get out there..he was talking big in preseason too about being in the best shape of his life and they'd have to rip the job from his cold, dead hands.
THen he promptly lost his job to Pugh.
leadership, experience, intensity, toughness.
Everything you want in a starter except the most important thing.
A) A guy who isn't good now, will never be good again, and won't be on the team next year
B) A guy probably isn't good now, has some chance of being good now and in the future, and has some chance of being on the team for several years
B seems like the way to go.
and then talent actually takes a back seat to all that other stuff.
Giants are not writing off 2013 yet. If they lose on Sunday, things may change.
1) A guy who maybe can't trust to be in the right place at all times, but who has a chance of doing the job you're asking of him physically
2) A guy who you mostly can trust to be in the right place at all times, but who you can in no way expect to perform physically
Coughlin always chooses #2.
They don't think they're writing off this season but they are.
This line is not getting fixed with the likes of Snee, Cordle, Diehl and Baas.
Maybe it won't get fixed with the likes of Brewer and Mosely but it is beyond me that they won't try to see if it might.
hate changes to the status quo.
However in this case it's true, DD is worst lineman on the team. Deepdown you know that to be true.
What DD says is a joke, as if he's can help the rookie RT. Maybe we can get Winston Churchill to play RG and inspire this offense!
are so many examples counter to the argument that Coughlin doesn't play young players that you can't even take that seriously. The guy who hated playing rookies was Parcells. Coughlin has a long history of playing rookie and first-year players.
If I were coach, I would have moved Boothe to center, kept Brewer in the lineup, but I'd have Diehl in there at guard right now too, but probably at left guard.
the majority of the old vets playing.
The line has looked its best (not saying much) with Brewer in there.
Boothe has played ALOT of Center in the past.
With what Mosely lacks in knowledge and experience he might make up for in youth, health, athleticism, etc.
The interior of this line is getting rebuilt next offseason, it has to. With Brewer and Mosely, worst case scenario you're seeing if you have long-term solutions before you start that rebuild.
Best case scenario they play well and provide a lift.
there was no free agency. Not a good example. It's a different NFL now.
He had free agency with the Patriots and Jets and Cowboys.
roster. Cordle stinks. I have no problem seeing if DD can help at LG. But if they lose this week, or if DD is ineffective, I would get Mosely in there at LG, go with Beatty, Mosely, Boothe, Brewer, Pugh. I think the have to find out what if anything they have with these guys.
TC wants a Grognard on the line.
You know shits bad when they go to the Triarii.
Which is what Diehl is right now.
Seriously let's keep shifting them around week to week.(sarcasm off)
I give up on Diehl and whatever Coughlin sees in the mighty lunchpail warrior, but I would have thought this would have at least kicked Cordle to bench... yet not even that comes out of this.
At least Cordle held his own last game.
thanks for qualifying it
|Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 45s
David Diehl: "Me coming back, I'm not a miracle worker. Everythingís not going to be perfect, everythingís not going to be fixed" #NYG
|Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 56s
Diehl: "Iím going to bring my leadership, Iím going to bring energy, Iím going to fight each and every play." #NYG
He was pretty bad against KC, at least in pass pro.
I think it just seemed less so because the overall line performance wasn't quite as horrific as it was against Carolina.
Just got to get something in there about grit and being a lunchpail kind of guy too, Dave, and you're set.
advance to 2:17 and see DD pull from the RT position. He bounces off a DB#21 Its sad
- ( New Window
one questions Diehls' toughness and grit. I also don't question his ability at this point. But he never had a lot of lateral mobility, and now basically has none. He has also played badly at guard, is coming off a broken finger on which he surgery, and hasn't played at all in six weeks.
But Coughlin still thinks Diehl gives us a better chance to win than Brewer? Brewer wasn't that bad on Sunday, and is also younger, healthier, and more agile. We also have to find out what he have in Brewer. This is his third year, and we still don't know. Why? Because Coughlin won't play him unless every other aging, broken down, veteran OL is on IR. Period.
I just don't see how anyone can see this as anything other than Coughiln's mindless insistence on playing veterans simply because they have performed well in the past. We've seen it we Snee, Baas, Tuck, and others. They get to play no matter what.
I know he does -- I've been complaining about it for seasons now.
Honestly, unless the light goes on very soon for Pugh and Beatty gets his head out of his ass, the Giants are all but locking themselves into having the worst OL in the NFL by re-inserting Diehl and keeping Cordle in there.
The Coughlin playing rookies argument is not one I've waded into very often. I was really referring to a tendency to chose physical limitations over inadequate knowledge of the system...rookie or otherwise. I think he feels its safer...but I'm not always sure why. A guy who simply can't do the job physically doesn't do you much good either.
But since we're on the subject, who are the rookies he has played extensively when there was someone with the team at least 2 years behind them that the rookie simply beat out.
2007 is the list of guys you always hear trotted out there...but I'm not sure it supports the argument as much as people think.
Steve Smith was playing ahead of Dom Hixon, David Tyree, and Sinorice Moss, for example.
Boss played when Shockey went down ahead of fellow rookie Michael Matthews and some other guy I can't even remember.
Bradshaw had 6 carries heading into Buffalo and only came into the game late when Jacobs got hurt. Derrick Ward had also been hurt earlier in the year.
Ross is really the only guy I can think of who was trusted early ahead of a vet (although this also had to do with Webster playing himself out of the lineup).
Not really the point here...but an interesting side discussion.
I know everyone hates Brewer but he's just not good at all - it's why he's barely played in a few years.
Sure Diehl is on the decline but he's a much smarter player and a definite upgrade over Brewer. It will also help Pugh to have a vet next to him.
debate....but Bradshaw fumbled in his first game.
that's why he was benched. Against GB, week 2.
he didn't see the field for 2 months.
I'm not arguing Bradshaw should have been on the field. He was benched for fumbling kickoffs (which makes infinitely more sense to me when your talking about a kick returner). I'm just saying he didn't get his first carry until week 11, and didn't play extensively until both Ward and Jacobs had gotten hurt. He was then ridiculous when given the opportunity.
I bring him up only because he's often tossed out as a counter to the Coughlin doesn't play rookies argument.
and fans wonder why players dont show loyalty.
Personally I think Diehl will find a spot at LG on this line this year.
I love Diehl and Snee and will cherish the memories they made for me on the field.
But that doesn't mean I agree with playing them for the rest of time. Players reach a point where they can no longer do what needs to be done. I think these old warriors are there and then some.
If that makes me a shit fan....so be it.
if you read the comments on this thread...most people have said if we're gonna play him, it should be at LG.
even if Diehl was reinserted into the line at guard.. to play Boothe at center, Brewer at guard, and keep Beatty at LT and Pugh at RT..
to me in the center of our offensive line..
Diehl/Boothe/Brewer > Boothe/Cordle/Diehl
or it's the final nail in the coffin/Coughlin.
Diehl proved beyond any doubt last tear and this preseason that his fine career is over.
Leave the fvcking kids in there. If you insist on playing Diehl, at least move Boothe to center.
Ahhhh what do I know. I'm just a fan.
I'll root like hell for Diehl, but he's going to have to show something he hasn't in 3 seasons.
referring to the more demeaning and belittling posts on this thread, however...
I have a hard time believing that the Giants want to risk the health and career of Eli so the decision to play Diehl has more to do with him knowing the offense, and showing leadership in the huddle.
Such intangibles are always forgotten though because most "what have you done for me lately NY fans" live in a fucking cloud where talent is all that matters.
Just sucks to see so much shit on a once respected player.
Bradshaw didn't carry the ball, but he was lined up in the backfield week 2 of his rookie year. he caught a pass. the next time he touched the ball resulted in a fumble at his own 15 yd line.
Favre threw a TD pass a few plays later.
He didn't see the field again for two months, but if he didn't fumble I think you can be pretty sure he definitely would have.
I'm not saying coughlin does or doesn't do anything, but I am saying Bradshaw would have had a lot more PT as a rookie if he didn't fumble.
And Bradshaw was not ridiculous once he started playing. He had an 88 yard TD against Buffalo (and then 16 carries for 63 yards). He averaged 4.3 ypc in the playoffs with 1 TD and averaged like 10 carries per game. Which is good, and the 88 yard TD was awesome, but I wouldn't overstate it.
is continuity, not plugging in washed up or never has beens. Pin this note to your computer: the coaching staff are constantly switching up the OL line. At the end of the season, don't give out excuses that the line never had a chance to gel. pin a note that says the coaching staff never gave the line a chance to gel. pin it directly on the coaching staff when you're trying to figure out who fucked up.
Let's face it, the coaches are saying Brewer and Mosely suck. They haven't faced up to the reality that Diehl just doesn't have it any more.
TC may think he's doing everything he can to make this team better, but in reality, he's doing everything he can to ensure that this season continues to be a shitfest. Stick with the youngsters. They might get better. Diehl will not.
giving the staff the benefit of the doubt, this says that we have 2 players on the OL worthy of maybe planning the future on: Beatty and Pugh. The rest are washed up, never have beens, or youngsters the coaching staff have no faith in.
Wow has this team fucked up big time. It's not only Reese. It's Flaherty, Gilbride, and Coughlin. They all formed a team to pick out the keepers and the draft picks. They all failed miserably.
I have a feeling he gets the job done and the leadership out there pulls them together.
Prediction: Marked improvement in the run game, allowing Eli to pick his spots and pick apart the Eagles d-backfield.
that Eric agrees with me.
and I hope all the OL do well, but don't mistake results/success with the reason.
the Eagles D is one of the worst D's in the league.
They are dead last in yards allowed per game, and 2nd to last (to the Giants) in points allowed.
that Beatty and Boothe have none. They're both veterans now. What does it say about Snee? He was here for 3 games, and we still had the same shit show. Apparently he wasn't a leader. Baas? apparently not a leader.
The brain trust (mgt and coaching staff) seem to have a hard time finding leaders for this team. Who do we have on either side of the ball? Rolle and Diehl? It's been the same for about a decade now. We beg for leaders, and have none worthy of the name.
since he was asked to switch back from OLT a few years ago. can't see how he'll be better at it now, a year older, with a hand injury and a 6 week layoff. guess we'll see.
to assume marked improvement.
He's lost every position job he's had over the past two seasons.
He has been bad and injured and I wonder if his relationship with TC kept him as a starter. He is also very hoghly paid.
Anyone who is happy to see dd back in the lineup should get his eyes examined.
along with Snee should not be on this team. They're done (see Jacobs). Starting or even playing him shouldn't be an option.
I recall that Diehl played very well at guard early in his career. I thought he was moved to tackle only because he was the most versatile lineman.
Did I misremember?
He played very well at guard early in his career, but when they tried moving him to lg a couple of years ago, he was awful.
but he was made a guard again in 2011 and it wasn't pretty.
that benching him is out of the question?
but we all know what we have with Diehl already. He does not give this team any knew hope for this season or knowledge to the future.
Play the guys you drafted and determine what may or may not be needed for the future.
Is better than snee at least and
By playing him he will get injured
Soon and we can cut him finally...
Snee should be on it too..baas
Should be ir"d and give injury
Settlement...Reese should then
Try and trade to get player or
He can count the days till he is
when Eli is knocked out with an injury because
we keep playing senior citizen equivalents on
Eli is a tough guy but not with what has been lately
As bad as our offense is I would not be surprised
if teams bring the kitchen sink blitz given that can't even
score a TD in red zone unless Cruz breaks a big play