a 5th, 6th, 7th rounder who makes the team is a guy who makes the team. He might be a starter, he might be a reserve, he might be a special teams player. But he is a body who has a role on a 53 man roster.
You lose that pick and they you have to fill it in free agency, which is more expensive. Rookie contracts are dirt cheap.
And occasionally that late pick becomes an Armstead or Bradshaw.
The season is far from over. This core of players has shown us before to NEVER count them out!!!!!!! Reese is making the moves that he feels can help out our teams voids. I like the Jacobs move. I am not hating this move.
When you're competing year-in-year out, the coach also has to balance in the development of the players the team is drafting against going with the known quantities. Parcells had a good feel for knowing when some lynchpins on the OL and LB have gotten worse, and remedied it in much swifter fashion than Coughlin.
David, yeah that's why I said scouting AND evaluation
and you'll need to put on your rose colored glasses here. The Giants front office is sending a message to the team that they are not giving up on 2013.
Think of it. They are 0-4, but only 2 games back in the division. Reese put that Super Bowl count down clock in the locker room as a motivator. Could he and the coaches be so far off in their view of this team to basically pack it in with 12 games to play and a division where 8 or 9 wins will get you a division title?
If he felt this team was in the shitter, no way he makes this deal. So what he's telling his team, specifically the veterans on defense and the coaches, is that he will look to make a move, at the expense of next year (even with a later round pick) and bring in a veteran LB to slot in a defense that clearly needs help in the middle after the Connor injury and now Herzlich's foot injury.
The Giants need confidence, they need a spark. We hear it from Coughlin. We hear it from some of the veteran leaders (Tuck, Rolle, etc.) So if Reese feels he can fill a hole, send a message to his team, and try to do what he can to salvage the season at the expense of a 7th rounder, he's going to do it.
Now...if he sucks and can't play anymore..and the season ends up 5-11. Well, this was a gamble and loss on Reese's part.
and Beason fails the physical the second he gets here. So even if you're dead set against this, I wouldn't panic just yet.
Eric - I get that you need bodies to fill out the roster, but we've got nobody at LB. It's a longshot, but if Beason can play he helps this year, and maybe becomes a part of the longer term.
that's the same argument we heard with Keith Rivers and Aaron Curry. I hope that's not the case but we're talking about a guy who got benched for Chase Blackburn.
that's why I think this is a calculated gamble by Reese. I think he's trying to send a message to the team here, knowing that he's not exactly bringing Mike Singletary here...or even what Beason was 5 years ago.
but unlike Reese and some others here, I think we're not doing anything this year. I would have just stood pat and waited for the draft and FA next year to repair the roster.
If you think we're not done at 0-4, and we still have a chance to be in this - and we've got a hole that you can improve - how do you *not* make the move?
Ideally it'd be for someone better than Beason, but at this point in the season, that's about what you're going to get, either a has-been or a never-was.
but to me 7th round pick are just like or close to undrafted free agents. If thier gonna fill bodies with late round picks they probably can do that with undrafted free agents.
Eric, Beason has actually done it at a high level before
I don't think we're done because I'm a foolish optimistic Giants fan. But the likely reality is the Giants are not going to get to 8-8, or even if they do an win the division, get knocked out right away.
Most of BBI says we should be benching the vets and playing the young pups at this point (see OL discussion today).
I can't see how those same folks can say "Hey, it's only a late pick...what the hell?!"
You don't rebuild by trading away draft picks, even late picks.
we don't know the terms of the deal. Maybe the pick is conditional based on playing time. So if Beason actually does produce, then the Giants give up a pick. If he doesn't, they don't get anything. At the very least, the Panthers were able to free up a roster spot and salary relief. If they were thinking of outright releasing him, maybe this was a trade between friends of Gettleman and Reese and they are doing each other a favor here.
Many experts think Newsome is the best GM. Here are his drafts from 2007 to 2012. 3 for 26 from rounds 4-7 (Pernell McPhee DE/DT 5th, Dennis Pitta TE 4th & Le'Ron McClain RB 4th was a 2-time Pro-Bowler). 0-10 6th & 7th rounds. So much for the idea that even the best GMs do a great job in the later rounds. Reese bashers should get a clue.
2012
2 Courtney Upshaw LB - 9 starts, 55 tackles, 1.5 sack 2012
2 Kelechi Osemele OT - starter all 2012
3 Bernard Pierce RB - 4.9 avg/108 carries 2012
4 Gino Gradkowski G - 0 starts 2012; 3 starts @ C this year
4 Christian Thompson S - 0 starts 2012
5 Asa Jackson CB - 1 game 2012
6 Tommy Streeter WR - nada 2012; on BUF 2013
7 Deangelo Tyson DE - 12 tackles 2012
1 starter
1 decent backup
1 1st round bust so far
nada from 4/5 picks 4-7
2010
2 Sergio Kindle LB - 3 games, 0 starts, 1 tackle
2 Terrence Cody DT - 20 starts, 78 tackles
3 Ed Dickson TE - 33 starts, 87 rec, 918 yds
4 Dennis Pitta TE - 7 starts, 102 rec, 1075 yds
5 David Reed WR - 0 starts, 5 rec; on INDY 2013
5 Art Jones DE - nada
6 Ramone Harewood T - nada
1 2nd round bust
2 1 year starters
nada from 3/4 picks 4-6
2009
1 Michael Oher T - 67 starts
2 Paul Kruger DE/LB - 6 starts, 16.5 sacks, 72 tackles in 4 BAL yrs; on CLE 2013
3 Lardarius Webb DB/PR/KR - 28 starts, 8 INT, 202 tackles
5 Jason Phillips LB - 1 FF 1 yr w/ BAL; nada w/ CAR 2 yrs
5 Davon Drew TE - nada
6 Cedric Peerman RB - didn't play for BAL; 1 start w/ DET, CIN
1 starter
1 good 2nd round backup (they got 1 good year out of Kruger)
1 decent 3rd round CB/R
nada from 3/3 picks 5-6
2008
1 Joe Flacco - obvious; picked 18th
2 Ray Rice - obvious; 3 Pro Bowl; picked 55th
3 Tavares Gooden LB - 12 starts, 56 tackles in 3 BAL yrs,
3 Tom Zbikowski DB/PR/KR - 14 KRs/16 PRs/36 tackles in 4 yrs w/ BAL.
3 Oniel Cousins T - 4 starts in 3 BAL yrs
4 Marcus Smith WR - nada in 2 BAL yrs
4 David Hale T - 0 starts in 2 yrs
6 Haruki Nakamura DB - 0 starts, 26 tackles in 4 BAL yrs
7 Justin Harper WR - 2 games in 1 yr; nada
7 Allen Patrick RB - nada
2 starters, incl. franchise QB & Pro Bowl RB
1 decent backup
nada from 5/5 picks 4-7
2007
1 Ben Grubbs G - 70 starts in 5 BAL yrs; 1 PB; on NO 2012, 2013
3 Yamon Figurs PR/KR - 7.9 PR/23.3 KO avg in 2 BAL yrs;
3 Marshall Yanda T/G - starter 75/86 games; 2 PB
4 Antwan Barnes LB - 0 starts, 5 sack, 1 INT, 22 tackles in 3 BAL yrs
4 Le'Ron McClain RB - 54 starts, 3.8 avg, 12 TDs in 4 BAL yrs; 2 PB
5 Troy Smith QB - 2 starts, 89 passes, 79.7 QBR in 3 BAL yrs
6 Prescott Burgess LB - 0 starts, 9 tackles in 4 BAL yrs
3 starters/Pro Bowlers
1 decent PR/KOR but for only 2 years
nada from 3/4 picks 4-6
Out of 46 picks:
10.5 starters
5 decent to good backups
4 Pro Bowlers (3 in 2007; 1 played 5 yrs, another 4)
1 franchise QB
1 1st round bust so far
1 2nd round bust
but lets not act like he's not immediately the best linebacker we have. He might be slow coming back from his latest surgery and who knows if he can get back healthy but he's forgotten more than Herzlich will ever know. He's 28 years old and a former 1st round pro-bowler.
that we invested actual draft picks on. There are a couple guys on the practice squad that sound interesting, but the frustration from my end, which I'm sure many others share, is that we haven't seemed to give guys like Brewer and Mosley a chance to get better with meaningful snaps. Both played reasonably well this preseason.
Eric, you can't be an optimist and a realist at the same time
If you think they can get it done, then the trade has to be made. Beason might not be great, but we've got crap back there.
Personally, I was hoping they'd put in a claim for John Lotulelei from the Seahawks. Just saw that the Jax got him off waivers, I wonder if the Giants put in a claim and this was plan B.
Its very desperate and I dont like it. If your gonna make a trade I'd rather get somone like a Eugene Monroe(I dont mean him necessarliy )if hes available. A proven veteran who can help this team and maybe sign him long term if he plays well.
Anyone know what other LBs are available? For all we know, as mentioned, this could be a trade for a conditional pick depending on how many games Beason plays &/or production. Wouldn't get panties in a knot just yet. Have a feeling Herzlich's injury may be seen as long-term, in which case somebody has to be signed if the PS guys aren't viewed as any better than Beason, even w/ his past injuries.
Who we decided to let walk out in favor of Brandon Jacobs. Now we are trading for Chase Blackburns backup who is struggling with injuries. WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING!!!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure you'd catch up on the protection schemes very quickly. It's new terminology, but it's not like they're thrown in there learning mandarin. McGahee likely wouldn't do shit behind our shit line anyways.
every pick counts. Why cant he accept that this team is really bad and try to fix it in the offseason? Is he trying to save face for the whole countdown clock thing? We just traded a pick for a washed up name player. This is a Jerry Jones type move, sorry but that's how I feel.
Ruining the future??? Come on. Im taking away all of your man cards!!! Relax!!! 0-4 has made BBI CRAZY!!!!!!! This head coach and GM have 2 Superbowls...one less than Brady and Belicheck. And prevented Brady and Belicheck from having 5 Superbowls.
just the pick. It's that this trade indicates that Reese is delusional enough to think that this team is still good enough to make the playoffs. It freaks me out that this is the guy in charge of building the team.
Joe Person @josephperson 2m
Beason on knee pain 2 weeks ago: "You have your good days, you have your bad days. When you pound on it, obviously you have that setback."
a 5th, 6th, 7th rounder who makes the team is a guy who makes the team. He might be a starter, he might be a reserve, he might be a special teams player. But he is a body who has a role on a 53 man roster.
You lose that pick and they you have to fill it in free agency, which is more expensive. Rookie contracts are dirt cheap.
And occasionally that late pick becomes an Armstead or Bradshaw.
this team has done crazier shit before so it wouldnt surprise me if they win like 3 or 4 in a row.
Think of it. They are 0-4, but only 2 games back in the division. Reese put that Super Bowl count down clock in the locker room as a motivator. Could he and the coaches be so far off in their view of this team to basically pack it in with 12 games to play and a division where 8 or 9 wins will get you a division title?
If he felt this team was in the shitter, no way he makes this deal. So what he's telling his team, specifically the veterans on defense and the coaches, is that he will look to make a move, at the expense of next year (even with a later round pick) and bring in a veteran LB to slot in a defense that clearly needs help in the middle after the Connor injury and now Herzlich's foot injury.
The Giants need confidence, they need a spark. We hear it from Coughlin. We hear it from some of the veteran leaders (Tuck, Rolle, etc.) So if Reese feels he can fill a hole, send a message to his team, and try to do what he can to salvage the season at the expense of a 7th rounder, he's going to do it.
Now...if he sucks and can't play anymore..and the season ends up 5-11. Well, this was a gamble and loss on Reese's part.
that doesn't realize the awful injuries Beason has, and thinks we've picked up a first team all-pro on the downside of his career.
Eric - I get that you need bodies to fill out the roster, but we've got nobody at LB. It's a longshot, but if Beason can play he helps this year, and maybe becomes a part of the longer term.
What if the trade is made, and he has to sit out one practice a week because of his knee?
It might well blow up in his face.
If you think we're not done at 0-4, and we still have a chance to be in this - and we've got a hole that you can improve - how do you *not* make the move?
Ideally it'd be for someone better than Beason, but at this point in the season, that's about what you're going to get, either a has-been or a never-was.
Most of BBI says we should be benching the vets and playing the young pups at this point (see OL discussion today).
I can't see how those same folks can say "Hey, it's only a late pick...what the hell?!"
You don't rebuild by trading away draft picks, even late picks.
we are 0-4 and thats why a lot of us are questioning the deal.
This sunday is the season. going 0-5 (0-2) is a death sentence.
No matter how bad the division is, the cowboys are still the better team no matter what and they already have a 1-0 advantage over us.
7th round pick wont bother me, but a 5th rounder would tick me off
2012
2 Courtney Upshaw LB - 9 starts, 55 tackles, 1.5 sack 2012
2 Kelechi Osemele OT - starter all 2012
3 Bernard Pierce RB - 4.9 avg/108 carries 2012
4 Gino Gradkowski G - 0 starts 2012; 3 starts @ C this year
4 Christian Thompson S - 0 starts 2012
5 Asa Jackson CB - 1 game 2012
6 Tommy Streeter WR - nada 2012; on BUF 2013
7 Deangelo Tyson DE - 12 tackles 2012
1.5 starters
nada from 5 picks 4-7
2011
1 Jimmy Smith CB - 8 starts, 2 INT, 60 tackles
2 Torrey Smith WR - 33 starts, 115 rec, 15 TDs
3 Jah Reid LG - 7 starts 2012
4 Tandon Doss WR - 0 starts, 7 rec 2012; OOF 2013
5 Chykie Brown CB - 1 start; 17 tackles
5 Pernell McPhee DE/DT - 6 starts, 7.5 sacks, 47 tackles
6 Tyrod Taylor QB - 9 games, 0 starts, 30 passes
7 Anthony Allen RB - 0 starts, 19 rushes
1 starter
1 decent backup
1 1st round bust so far
nada from 4/5 picks 4-7
2010
2 Sergio Kindle LB - 3 games, 0 starts, 1 tackle
2 Terrence Cody DT - 20 starts, 78 tackles
3 Ed Dickson TE - 33 starts, 87 rec, 918 yds
4 Dennis Pitta TE - 7 starts, 102 rec, 1075 yds
5 David Reed WR - 0 starts, 5 rec; on INDY 2013
5 Art Jones DE - nada
6 Ramone Harewood T - nada
1 2nd round bust
2 1 year starters
nada from 3/4 picks 4-6
2009
1 Michael Oher T - 67 starts
2 Paul Kruger DE/LB - 6 starts, 16.5 sacks, 72 tackles in 4 BAL yrs; on CLE 2013
3 Lardarius Webb DB/PR/KR - 28 starts, 8 INT, 202 tackles
5 Jason Phillips LB - 1 FF 1 yr w/ BAL; nada w/ CAR 2 yrs
5 Davon Drew TE - nada
6 Cedric Peerman RB - didn't play for BAL; 1 start w/ DET, CIN
1 starter
1 good 2nd round backup (they got 1 good year out of Kruger)
1 decent 3rd round CB/R
nada from 3/3 picks 5-6
2008
1 Joe Flacco - obvious; picked 18th
2 Ray Rice - obvious; 3 Pro Bowl; picked 55th
3 Tavares Gooden LB - 12 starts, 56 tackles in 3 BAL yrs,
3 Tom Zbikowski DB/PR/KR - 14 KRs/16 PRs/36 tackles in 4 yrs w/ BAL.
3 Oniel Cousins T - 4 starts in 3 BAL yrs
4 Marcus Smith WR - nada in 2 BAL yrs
4 David Hale T - 0 starts in 2 yrs
6 Haruki Nakamura DB - 0 starts, 26 tackles in 4 BAL yrs
7 Justin Harper WR - 2 games in 1 yr; nada
7 Allen Patrick RB - nada
2 starters, incl. franchise QB & Pro Bowl RB
1 decent backup
nada from 5/5 picks 4-7
2007
1 Ben Grubbs G - 70 starts in 5 BAL yrs; 1 PB; on NO 2012, 2013
3 Yamon Figurs PR/KR - 7.9 PR/23.3 KO avg in 2 BAL yrs;
3 Marshall Yanda T/G - starter 75/86 games; 2 PB
4 Antwan Barnes LB - 0 starts, 5 sack, 1 INT, 22 tackles in 3 BAL yrs
4 Le'Ron McClain RB - 54 starts, 3.8 avg, 12 TDs in 4 BAL yrs; 2 PB
5 Troy Smith QB - 2 starts, 89 passes, 79.7 QBR in 3 BAL yrs
6 Prescott Burgess LB - 0 starts, 9 tackles in 4 BAL yrs
3 starters/Pro Bowlers
1 decent PR/KOR but for only 2 years
nada from 3/4 picks 4-6
Out of 46 picks:
10.5 starters
5 decent to good backups
4 Pro Bowlers (3 in 2007; 1 played 5 yrs, another 4)
1 franchise QB
1 1st round bust so far
1 2nd round bust
I hope I'm dead wrong about this, but this reeks of a desperate move by a team that should be keeping the upcoming offseason in mind.
Personally, I was hoping they'd put in a claim for John Lotulelei from the Seahawks. Just saw that the Jax got him off waivers, I wonder if the Giants put in a claim and this was plan B.
If you want to start looking at the young guys...
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz 1m
When this season started I figured the Giants would eventually trade for Chase Blackburn's backup. #nyg
This wreaks of desperation.
Good lord...
McGahee would need more work and time to get acclimated to the complex pass blocking reads the running backs have to do.
Back to Beason............. Reese has undervalued the position for so long and now he looks like a fool trying to fill the void.
Beason on knee pain 2 weeks ago: "You have your good days, you have your bad days. When you pound on it, obviously you have that setback."