Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Breaking down Eli's miscues

dep026 : 10/6/2013 6:45 pm
mainly the 3 intentional groundings and 3 INTs.

Intentional Groundings:
1. This was a bad call, IMO. Eli dropped back, fell down, got back up and threw it away. At no point was he threatened to be being sack. Hence, its not intentional grounding. It was an unfortunate play that I believe the Refs got wrong.

2. Blitz, one guy gets totally free and the other guy Jacobs held. Eli senses the blitz and throws to a spot where he thought a receiver would be. No one there, Intentional grounding. Now whether Jacobs was suppose to be the outlet or was he trying to avoid a sack, I am not sure. I put this one on Eli, but the other factors cannot be ignored.

3. Now this one I have no idea why people are even mad, or care. Look, he was getting sacked, and he tried to throw it away. Diehl or Pugh got beat instantly. Eli never had a prayer. He was a 1/2 yard away from making it a good play. Its easy to blame Eli for everything that goes wrong, but how about sustaining a block for longer than .25 seconds.

Now the INTs.

1. Should never have counted. I dont care if you believe he should have held the ball, its a penalty that HAS to be called. A missed call like that changed the entire course of the game. Eli's head was hit, grabbed, and twisted. The whole sequence is relevant because Cruz was WIDE OPEN in the middle of the field. The penalty has to be called. Besides, there was absolutely no blocking as another blitzer get through untouched (when does that happen for our defense)

2. Looking back, Eli was going to get sacked, so he tried to sqeeze it in.It was a bad decision. But the defender dove, and made a 1 handed catch in mid air. Now while the throw and decision was not his best.... you have to give Boykins some props for an amazing play.

3. All on Nicks. Its a slant route. I dont care if its guarded, you cannot stop your route, no way, no how. Its a timing route and when a player stops running his route after the QB releases the ball, its going to be doomed. Its these types of plays that should be crucified because he quit on a play that ended the game.

So whats the final synopsis? Eli made some bad mistakes, but in no way, no how did he cost us the game. 4 of these 6 plays he was hit as such as he finished his drop, or even quicker than that. When you cant run the ball, when you get bad holding penalties, and your OLine struggles to pass block - you get these type plays that ruin the game.

Thats why, IMO, its imperative that in the 2014 draft we take OL, OL with our first two picks. When Eli has time, he still can pick apart any secondary he wants.
dep  
PetesHereNow : 10/6/2013 6:47 pm : link
couldn't agree more if I typed it myself.
great post  
Tuckrule : 10/6/2013 6:49 pm : link
the INTs I dont put on Eli. The only thing I would say is he has to just hold onto the ball and take the sack once he feels the pressure. I am not unhappy with the way Eli played today. The blocking was garbage once again.
Nicks giving up on his route  
islander1 : 10/6/2013 6:51 pm : link
is inexcusable, honestly. let him go collect money elsewhere after this season. We don't need someone making 10 million a year doing that crap in the fourth quarter.
wrong  
LG in NYC : 10/6/2013 6:52 pm : link
Eli made some nice plays today but overall has been skittish in the pocket and rushed too many throws.

Stop making dumb excuses for him. He has not been good this year.
So,  
HomerJones45 : 10/6/2013 6:52 pm : link
the high throws, the inaccurate passes on short outs and ins for first downs were nothing.

I agree the first IG was bullshit from a ref crew that sucked eggs.

You don't discount the first INT because he got hit in the head.
Nicks also had  
ShocknAwe80 : 10/6/2013 6:53 pm : link
Alligator arms several times today!
The penalty should have been called, but INT #1 should have just  
Riggies : 10/6/2013 6:54 pm : link
never been thrown -- frankly, he was lucky (Or was he? I wouldn't mind missing some of this season, if I was him.) he didn't break his fingers or hand on someone's helmet, when he was trying to force it out there. A QB of his level and experience should know better, even a gunslinger/gambler one.

I honestly don't blame him for the loss so much as I was disappointed that he didn't step up and carry them to victory. He didn't get a lot of help today, but he got a little bit more than usual and he didn't step up and seize the chance... not that it would have mattered in the big picture, of course, because this team stinks, one win or none.
LG  
Tuckrule : 10/6/2013 6:57 pm : link
how do you expect someone to play well behind an offensive line that cannot block. Eli is on the run or moving on every single throw he makes. When he has a clean pocket he makes good decisions and delivers the football where it needs to go. Cordle is beyond awful. Diehl wasnt much better
The  
AcidTest : 10/6/2013 6:59 pm : link
truth about Eli and his responsibility for his INTs is somewhere between those who want him benched, and those who claim he bears no responsibility.

Your analysis is good, and Eli does have an atrocious OL, no running game, and is dealing with a vastly overcomplicated offense. But he has more INTs than any QB who has come into the league since 2004, including many this year and last. He is also far too inaccurate lately. Like everyone else, he has played very badly lately.
Sorry Homer  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 7:00 pm : link
when a guy grabs your head as you are throwing, a penalty has to be called. He had a guy wide open. The people who are bitching why he didnt take the sack are the same ones who would bitch when he did get sacked.

Eli cant win on this site. Its all about perspective. The missed call on the first INT changed the whole game around.
skittish  
G2 : 10/6/2013 7:04 pm : link
High throws. ...fuck yes. If you had that shit offensive line you'd be skittish also.

Eli is the least of our problems. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking loon.

How in the hell can you blame Eli for this shitshow? Honest to God this place drives me nuts.

There is no running game. None. How is that Eli's fault?
Eli's issues are a product of the system... high risk/high reward  
GloryDayz : 10/6/2013 7:05 pm : link
When the QB is taught to throw it 20+ yards down the field on 3rd and short because that's what "the defense is giving you", you're not exactly preaching ball control, moving the chains, and/or playing it "safe". Bad risk management, and as a result you get a QB who takes much more risks than you'd like.
Yada Yada  
oldutican : 10/6/2013 7:10 pm : link
People love to breakdown Eli's ints and find something to absolve or minimize them. But he is very error prone. He takes lots risks and isn't mobile enough to run out of trouble. I came to see some time ago that his biggest problem is being as unathletic a guy as there is in the NFL.
Good post dep. Only one thing wrong.  
BillT : 10/6/2013 7:11 pm : link
The draft won't be the solution for the OL. If you want a better OL next year you do it through FA.
The thing is  
k-five : 10/6/2013 7:12 pm : link
if fans like certain players, the blame is put on other players they don't like as much. This team losing these five game was a team effort. Eli has had many miscues, just like others.
I am a huge Eli fan  
LG in NYC : 10/6/2013 7:20 pm : link
So this is not about dumping on a player I dont like.

His Oline was good enough today so that is not a good excuse today.

I dont want Eli benched and I dont want him replaced but I am nnotgoing to write epic novels excusing his every bad play. He left too many throws out there early on and was brutal today down the stretch.

Result: loss
BillT  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 7:22 pm : link
if we get a chance at Lewan or Matthews, they will instantly upgrade our OLine.
dep  
BillT : 10/6/2013 7:24 pm : link
And that's what we need. Instant upgrade.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 10/6/2013 7:26 pm : link
The 3rd INT...thank you Nicks for stopping mid route. Awesome man! That's why you deserve the big bucks!
Yeah I wasnt advocating  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 7:26 pm : link
the drafting of 4th, 5th rounders. I meant top 5 OL pick.
Yeah I get that  
BillT : 10/6/2013 7:32 pm : link
But it's still FAs that will get the job done. Even a top 10 pick is more of a risk than a FA who's NFL performance is a known commodity.
Like  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 7:33 pm : link
umm, David Baas?
Top 10 picks  
BillT : 10/6/2013 7:40 pm : link
Can get injured just as easily as FAs. That should be obvious as Giants fans!
Eli is throwing off his back foot again  
lawndart : 10/6/2013 7:52 pm : link
and looks nervous in the pocket. His mechanics are off, and looks to be regressing.
He threw 3 picks today...  
GiantFanInTX : 10/6/2013 7:52 pm : link
he has 12 in 5 games. He easily could have had 4 more today, but he got lucky. The falling backwards and throwing into coverage is inexcusable and it happens often. Most of us are HUGE Eli Manning fans, including me. However, this shit is getting to be laughable. According to you, Eli has never thrown an interception that was his fault. Eli Manning leads the universe in interceptions since his rookie season. I suppose it's got to be the O line, or the running game, or the defense, or the coaching staff or...

ridiculous...
I didn't like Eli's taking two timeouts  
CT Charlie : 10/6/2013 8:07 pm : link
to avoid delay-of-game calls. I don't know if the recurring "Omaha" problem is Eli's or Kilbride's, but usually it's more important to save a timeout than to give up a 5-yard penalty.
One of those timeouts  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 8:08 pm : link
led to a TD the next play.
Oh I forgot  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 8:09 pm : link
this clown feels every INT is Eli's fault. Go root for Romo. Guy stops on his route... Eli's fault. All I need to know about your intelligence.
I'd just love to see Eli in another offense.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/6/2013 8:11 pm : link
I really would.

The fact that entering year 10 we have to still break down his mistakes and find where to place blame is frustrating. Time to change up the philosophy a little bit.
Dep  
GiantFanInTX : 10/6/2013 8:49 pm : link
explain exactly what Nicks was supposed to do on that play? Do you actually know what play was drawn up? The fact is you don't know what play was drawn up and who's fault it was. The decision making is terrible and if there are miscommunications, then Eli should be clearing those up by now. Yes - our line sucks - it sucked in 2011 too and it wasn't great last year.

Eli throws too many picks. That's not an opinion - it's a fact. That doesn't mean he sucks, or we're not fans. He throws too many picks, they cost us games. It's not just the idea of turning it over and short fields. It's a very demoralizing play for the entire team. You get a big stop, you get momentum only to give it all back by throwing it up for grabs.

You choose to only see what you want to see because you don't want to believe that our franchise QB makes too many mistakes.

He's a great player, but he throws too many picks.
giantfan in tx  
hitdog42 : 10/6/2013 8:52 pm : link
i agree entirely with your post. he is a great QB... and he throws way too many picks. and not to mention there are a lot of high risk low reward picks that make it even worse at times.
GiantsinTx  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 8:59 pm : link
if you couldnt tell that was slant, then you are fucking moronic. I am sorry. I cant discuss football with people who dont realize what a simple slant pattern is.

Eli isnt the only one who fucks up, believe it or not. But for a simpleton like you, its just easy to blame Eli.
Our Line  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 9:00 pm : link
were all-pors in 2011 and 2012 compared to the shit we got now.

But Eli suckz, every turnover and bad play is his fault.
LOL  
GiantFanInTX : 10/6/2013 9:04 pm : link
Like I said - you're a joke buddy. Easily the worst poster on this site. And an asshole on top of it. That's a great combination - Not only are you stupid, but you're a dickhead too. Life must be a joy. I feel sorry for anyone who comes into contact with you on a daily basis. just do us a favor and try not to reproduce, ok pal?
dep  
hitdog42 : 10/6/2013 9:07 pm : link
you take the extreme BBIer and make them the example of the person who is critical of Eli... which makes you feel better about your opinion... but that example is just not the case of most of us who are critical. Your post is just massively biased. Eli has played mediocre/poor football since midway through last year. that really isnt even debatable. his decision making has been poor. his calculation of risk reward has been poor. the line sucks... the team cant run, and we run bad routes at times... all very true. But Eli is STILL turning the ball over too much and making poor decisions. It doesnt mean that the QB position is not a position of strength for the giants. of course it is... but the QB needs to get his sh%t together as well.
Yep I am stupid  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 9:08 pm : link
for not blaming every single play on Eli like you did this game. I mean at least I understand what a slant pass pattern is, maybe next week you can pick it up on it.

Simpleton, your wods about me are meaningless since you are clueless about the game. A QB gets his head twisted as he is throwing, his fault. A WR stops his pattern, Eli's fault. A DT grabs Eli in a half a second. Eli;s fault.

The defense has 5 sacks this year. Eli;s fault. We have the worst rushing attack i nthe league. Eli's fault. Jacob;s fumbles the ball without being touched. Eli;s fault.

Am I a good poster like you now? Get bent. Go root for with the Bridgewater crowd, or jump on the romo bandwagon.
Hitdog  
GiantFanInTX : 10/6/2013 9:09 pm : link
100% correct... ^^
Never once said Eli was playing well  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 9:11 pm : link
and if I did quote me on it.

All I said, is that placing the majority of the blame or pinning this loss solely on Eli is asinine.

The majority of posters here have no clue about the QB position. None whatsoever. But its just much easier to place the blame on Eli. So trying to show people how its a team effort when something goes wrong, you have mr. know it all liek GiantsinTx just deny it and say Eli sucks.

Its tiring. Eli gets his in less than a second and tries to throw it away before getting sacked and gets intentional grounding, and he sucks. They dont even realize if he takes the sack its the same consequence.
Well if you think that  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 9:12 pm : link
his 2nd and 3rd Intentional grounding was his fault, and his 1st/3rd INTs were his fault.... I cant discuss it with you because it clearly wasnt.
And if Eli needs to cut down on his TOs  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 9:14 pm : link
The Oline need to block better
RBs need to stop fumbling and hit the holes better
WRs need to stop dropping passes
DL has 4 sacks in 5 games. Thats pathetic
LBs need to tackle and cover better


See how this is a group effort. Eli's turnovers arent costing us games, which many posters have already said. ITs a TEAM effort why we are losing. Frankly, I dont know what Eli can do when he cant run playaction with this team and doesnt get more than 2.5 seconds to throw the ball.
Wow, just when you think you can't get any worse...  
GiantFanInTX : 10/6/2013 9:17 pm : link
incredible...

No where did I say (or did I see someone else say) that Eli sucks. In fact, as I stated earlier, I'm a big fan of Eli Manning. He's the best QB in Giants history and Phil Simms is my favorite Giant of all time. Eli made some great throws today that were not caught. There is a difference between saying someone sucks and being critical of one of their major flaws. You don't have a clue about anything, so stop trying to call others out on this site like you do. You sound like an idiot. Your desperate attempt at becoming one of the BBI elite is laughable and you are simply embarrassing yourself in a attempt to be "accepted". Grow up and learn what adult life is actually like, ok champ?

Eli Manning throws too many interceptions. His decision making has gotten worse over the last 2 seasons and we are seeing bad mistakes that cost the team a chance to win some games. Everyone has stated ad-nauseum that there is a plethora of issues with the team, it's not just the issues at QB. Are ALL of the interceptions his fault? Of course not - but many of them ARE. He throws a shit ton of picks. You can try to deny it all you want, but it's an issue whether you like it or not.
Ok  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 9:22 pm : link
I just gave 6 examples of his big misplays today. You tell me what he should have done differently then, to prevent a negative play happens. Ill even predict it.

INTs:
1. Hold the ball, despite having a guy wide open in the middle of the field.
2. Take the sack, even though Cruz had a step on the defender AND hit him in the hands.
3. Dont throw the ball, even though a slant is a timing throw in which you rely on the WR to get to a spot.

INtentional groundings:
1. Dont fall
2. Take the sack
3. Take the sack.

Here's a hint. On an intentional grounding, its the same loss as a sack.

You just cant blame something on him without looking at every single aspect of the play. I blamed 1 INT and 1 IG on him. Sorry if I felt other parties were responsibile for the negative play. I just dont come out and say Eli suckz.
So are you also going to analyze  
oldutican : 10/6/2013 9:33 pm : link
every seemingly bad play by every Giant to see what mitigating factors may have caused the problem? It's a team game, and of course there are other factors. But fact is Eli has an inordinate number of ints., as well as some real brain fart moves.
He takes too many risks (yes it is a high risk offense) and I believe he is so unathletic he can't run himself out of trouble in ways other QBs can at least on occasion do.
Eli has 12 INTs  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 9:39 pm : link
and Ive got:

5 INTs on either Miscommunication or a stopped route.
3 off deflection (One off Randles foot, one off Scotts hand, and the one off the Linemans head today)

He had a bad INT on the first play of the year, a bad one to Randle in double coverage against Denver, the bad throw on Boykins INT today, and I forgot the one with KC, but I am pretty sure it was on Eli.

So 8 of his 12 were off deflections or miscommunications. Again, Eli could be blamed on them, but when a WR is running one route and Eli throws another - its going to suck at the end. And ones off peoples hands and feet - well I cant blame Eli.
Its obvious you can't blame Eli  
oldutican : 10/6/2013 9:50 pm : link
Do you think he is the only QB that has bad things happen to him?
I just said  
dep026 : 10/6/2013 9:52 pm : link
some of those miscommunication INTs maybe were on him. But no, I am not going to pin every single mistake on him. I am sorry.

Between our putrid OLine, dropped passes, bad running game, and miscommunication routes - theres plenty of blame to go around.
Back to the Corner