Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Reese / Beason

Fish : 10/11/2013 7:51 pm
I'm disappointed in some of Reese's draft choices. The fact that have not worked out is one thing. But if nothing else he stole Beason from the Panthers. A great move by him in an otherwise rough stretch. I compare the Beason heist to finding a diamond in the rough like Cruz.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
I don't  
Fish : 10/11/2013 8:57 pm : link
Get that impression with Beason, that's it's all about the money. If he signs with the giants long term it will be a fair deal. A fair deal where Beason is well taken care of and it does not break our backs.
Based  
pjcas18 : 10/11/2013 9:00 pm : link
on what?
I asked  
Fish : 10/11/2013 9:04 pm : link
Him
LOL  
pjcas18 : 10/11/2013 9:07 pm : link
I wish that were true, but I fear the mythical "hometown" discount where players take less because they enjoy playing somewhere is just that...a myth.

Now the Giants do get an exclusive negotiating window from the end of the season (or now even for that matter), until the start of free agency, but I have to believe with Drew Rosenhaus as an agent, that Beason will know exactly what he can get on the market and will not accept a penny less to play here.
newmike  
DG_89 : 10/11/2013 9:08 pm : link
we're going to have money next year. Tuck, Diehl, Webster and all the 1 year contract guys are coming off the books. Snee hopefully retires, Baas hopefully gets cut. Between reading article and listening and watching the talking heads on Tv and the radio we'll be somewhere between 15-20 million under the cap
Eric  
SBlue46 : 10/11/2013 9:09 pm : link
on same note...typical Reese...like Bennett, Murphy signed
1 yr. deal ..hasnt played much but I saw him as a big weapon
and so did Reese...if he plays well..he will get big $$
in FA and go somewhere or we will have to pay...why didn
t they try for a 2-3 year deal
DG  
pjcas18 : 10/11/2013 9:12 pm : link
I believe the Giants will have some cap space - I'll wait for Optimus to tell me how much exactly, LOL, but with that there will be a lot of players who have to be re-signed too.

Nicks, Joseph, Boothe (I think signed 1 year), Connor, Rivers, Ross, Thomas, etc..

I think 11 or 12 guys on the 53-man roster are UFA's, even replacing them (not re-signing them) with veteran min, contracts would cost 12 - 15M.

that's not considering anyone long-term.

His play in this one game gave us more value than 99% of the  
PatersonPlank : 10/11/2013 9:13 pm : link
leagues 7th round picks. I am ready to say its a good move trade right now.
Jerry Fleeceon  
GiantTuff1 : 10/11/2013 9:21 pm : link
I feel I haven't seen a lineback flying all over the field like that since Armstead. Was kinda cool haha.

I pray he can stay healthy, we might have something there.
pjcas  
DG_89 : 10/11/2013 9:32 pm : link
IMo Nicks and Joseph are the only 2 must re-signs. Other than them I'd bring back, Ross, Thomas, Patterson at vet minimum and Stevie on a 1 or 2 year show me type deal. Everybody else? See ya!!!!!!!!!!
this iteration of the Giants is  
newmike2 : 10/11/2013 9:57 pm : link
an offense minded team. They will spend what they need to spend to shore-up the offense for Eli, then they will get the defense. Even with all the money coming off the books, I don't see them being able to make the moves to get vets to shore up the the oline, get a tight end that can block and catch, secure the services of an NFL RB, replace the talent that will walk, sign new LBers and pay the new guys and restructure.

15-20 mil sounds like a lot but in salary cap reality, it's not much.

Unless something changes, I see the Giants starting the 2014 season with pocket lint for spending.
For a 7th round pick  
Spark Em Up 22 : 10/11/2013 10:00 pm : link
Beason has already almost given us enough production in one game to warrant the trade. I bashed the deal at first partly because there were rumors of it being a 5th rounder. Reese may have made a very astute trade, assuming he stays healthy and is willing to re-sign for a reasonable deal.
.  
Anakim : 10/11/2013 10:23 pm : link
It was a bad trade to give up a future pick for a one year rental in a non-playoff year.

He has to re-sign or else it was a useless deal
Before  
Fish : 10/11/2013 10:25 pm : link
The bear game, this team thought it had a chance to turn it around. How you can say " a non playoff year" is crazy. Reese hasn't hit on 2 nod round picks and your crying over a 7th
Before the Bears game?  
Anakim : 10/11/2013 10:28 pm : link
Before the Bears game we were 0-5... It's not like we're in the running for the playoffs...or really, ever was. I understand we're a few games out from first place in the NFC East, but seriously, there is no indication that the team looks like a playoff team (before or after the Bears game) and getting one player like Beason isn't/wasn't going to change that.
This deal was done in part because of the relationship  
Geeman : 10/11/2013 10:32 pm : link
between Gettleman and the Giants. He knew they had a long time need for a MLBer. Beason was also well liked and always a pros pro in carolina and since Keuckly was drafted and was the clear cut starter and Beason really wasn't the same at any other LBer spot but in the middle. They found him a really nice fit in NY where he could re-establish himself as a starter. All this talk of how Blackburn beat him out was a lot of BS. Blackburn can't hold that man's jock. He was just a better fit on the outside then Beason.
You know...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/11/2013 10:33 pm : link
one thing we need to keep in mind is the physicality of certain players. I'm a believer that players follow the leadership of the most physical players on their roster. I think our offensive play got softer when we lost Kareem and Brandon Jacobs in the same offseason. I think we have really hurt for guys who play real physical on defense.

I saw Mundy looking real physical when he first got here - hitting guys like he wanted to hurt them. Not too much of that lately from him.

Will Hill seems to be playing really physical ball at safety. The DT's have shown some of that as well. Honestly, that's been it on defense.

Now Beason last night showed some of that physical play from the linebacker position. We've had some hope at linebacker over the years. In particular, I was impressed early on with Jacquain, but more from flying around the field, and not really from his physical play.

If Beason can help some of the guys around him to play with a tough, wanna-beat-you-up mentality, the trade will have paid off even if we don't resign him, imo.

We need to look for two types of players on this team to hopefully model the kind of play we want: playmakers and physical brawlers. Not sure we have too many left.
Anakim, if the Giants win last night  
Geeman : 10/11/2013 10:34 pm : link
and they were in position to do just that, the perception is different, and guess what...a big reason why would've been because of Beason's play in the middle. He's only going to get better too...he's cramming to learn this new scheme so that can't be easy and I'm sure it slowed him down a bit, not noticeably but I'm sure it kept him from making a few plays out there.
I'm sure Fish already has his cheap, good quality Beason jersey.  
Stu : 10/11/2013 10:35 pm : link
...
Geeman  
Anakim : 10/11/2013 10:37 pm : link
Is it? Even at 1-5, we would still have a huge hill to climb
Not so much  
Geeman : 10/11/2013 10:47 pm : link
The East is the worst divison in the league and we would've been 2 games out. The perception of hope and getting the monkey off there back would've changed. Team would've had more confidence and with 10 games left I think they would've had a good chance. The East is really bad and everyone still has a shot realistically.
Statistically, yes, but it just doesn't look like a playoff team  
Anakim : 10/11/2013 10:56 pm : link
and I don't think one player, especially one who seemed like he was on his last legs, was going to change that.
Right now he is a often injured one year rental  
Patrick77 : 10/12/2013 12:54 am : link
So if he lights it up, gets signed next offseason and stays healthy this would be a great move. But knowing the Giants luck/history with damaged players...

Eric is 100% correct that the only way Beason is worth anything is if the Giants resign him this offseason and he plays well next year. The 2013 season is essentially over for this team. Otherwise it was burning a 7th rounder to rent a player to play in a meaningless season.

I will admit I never expected him to come out and play as well as he did last night, but his talent was never in question, it was his health, or if he can stay healthy.
Reese better not sign Beason long term  
SHO'NUFF : 10/12/2013 1:00 am : link
Beason will pull a hamstring the minute after he signs the contract.
Pull a hamstring?  
ZGiants98 : 10/12/2013 4:12 am : link
As far as Im concerned, Beason has had one injury that's a concern to the Giants. He already came back 100 % from the achilles and was playing at a high level with the Panthers after the achilles and had zero injury problems before that. He had a major ACL injury. That's about it. Looks like he's rounding back into shape. I love how everyone keeps dismissing the fact that we are getting compensatory picks next year. A 7th rounder is gonna be more like a 10th rounder. No way all our picks make the 2014 roster. Never happen.
I liked the move. I like the attitude he brings. we need more toughnes  
George from PA : 10/12/2013 6:57 am : link
he is not a free agent.....he is signed til '17....we need to modify and restructure his deal and hopefully doable, the large bonus was on Carolina.

and if he proves to be a 3 down LBer....I bet we keep deal as is
One game of Beason's play should show something to even a blind man!  
idinkido : 10/12/2013 7:50 am : link
The Giants have deemphasized the LB position for too many years. Even if Beason never plays another game for us again, I believe that he opened up the eyes of the Giants organization as to how an excellent and physical MLB is effective and needed. If anything, this may change our drafting philosophy to the relief of many of us fans who have yelled from the roof tops that we want good LBs and especially a MLB like Beason. So even if he plays only that one game for us, the lesson has been learned and is a small price when it has been done so thru the trade of a 7th rd pick.
Mara  
Bill in UT : 10/12/2013 8:56 am : link
I would hope that an owner who has been here thru the LT and Carl Banks years would know what a good linebacker can mean without having to see Beason.
Some of you guys needs to  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 10/12/2013 10:48 am : link
Stop saying the NYG let Bennett go.. They did not!!!! They had no cap space to sign him!
I've been saying that for years, I didn't care what the Giants were  
Geeman : 10/12/2013 11:52 am : link
saying while winning without investing more in the LB position. How can you have a great 4-3 without at the least solid play from the MLBer?
I didn't buy that, just like I didn't but the early 00's when they did the same thing with the Oline. Not properly addressing that has finally caught up to the team, they invested far to many times in a high-mid round WR over an Olineman.
At any rate, I don't believe for one minute that Beason is a one year rental, he will man the middle of this defense for the next 3-5 seasons. I am very happy with the acquisition.
Beason is a one year rental  
VPD72 : 10/12/2013 12:06 pm : link
Then the Giants are cutting him.

He has too many injuries to invest more than a vet minimum into after the year.
I don't understand the point of the trade ...  
baadbill : 10/12/2013 12:15 pm : link
why trade for a player if you don't want him next year? And, if you do want him, why not make the trade conditioned upon signing him to a longer term contract?

Bottom line - I don't understand the point of the trade.
RE: Beason is a one year rental  
arcarsenal : 10/12/2013 12:28 pm : link
In comment 11274404 VPD72 said:
Quote:
Then the Giants are cutting him.

He has too many injuries to invest more than a vet minimum into after the year.


They're cutting him? He's a FA. And there's no way of knowing right now whether or not they will decide to retain him or be able to.
if Beason is any good  
spike : 10/12/2013 4:48 pm : link
we should keep him.

We haven't had a NFL quality MLB in YEARS (going back to Antonio Pierce). Sorry Blackburn.
RE: I don't understand the point of the trade ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/12/2013 4:56 pm : link
In comment 11274416 baadbill said:
Quote:
why trade for a player if you don't want him next year? And, if you do want him, why not make the trade conditioned upon signing him to a longer term contract?

Bottom line - I don't understand the point of the trade.


They don't have the money to sign him to a deal in this league year.
You can't give Reese a pass for neglecting the LB position in favor  
BigGame : 10/12/2013 5:54 pm : link
of our DL-driven scheme and then laud him for this trade. For all we know, Beason might start having knee pain next week and never suit up again for the rest of the year. Secondly, it was never a good idea to stock the roster with 10+ DL's when only 6 or so can get significant time while dumpster diving for street agent LB's. Now we've finally seen a capable LB diagnose, shed blocks, and actually quick enough to get to the ball carrier, we're all amazed.

I'm not here to knock Reese, but he must restock the OL and LB positions this off-season.
good poin t  
Fish : 10/12/2013 6:00 pm : link
This is a rough game. Anyone can start having injuries. Look at calvin johnson. Would you trade for him today?
Wasn't referring to you specifically, but I always hated it when  
BigGame : 10/12/2013 6:03 pm : link
people defend Reese's unwillingness to appropriately address the LB corp. This is how a capable LB can contribute to a defense.
Hammer  
baadbill : 10/12/2013 7:25 pm : link
Then what's the point of giving up a pick for him this year? What was the Giants record when the trade was made? They were already done for the year (sadly) ... Getting Beason because Giants can lock him up for a few years - contingent upon his being healthy - would at least make some sense to me (still prefer youth but, hey...) - But who gives a damn if he plays great this year and is gone next year? This year is (and was) already over - giving away draft picks is just stupid.
Scary  
Torn Tendon : 10/12/2013 8:45 pm : link
that Beason has a good shot of being BBI Player of the Year.

Though Prince, Linval, Pugh would have a slight lead.
to clarify last post ... giving away draft picks is just stupid...  
baadbill : 10/12/2013 9:16 pm : link
solely to help in 2013 after 2013 is already over
7th round for beason  
hankb1126 : 10/12/2013 9:50 pm : link
7th round for beason is way to much a 2nd or a 3rd would have been fair since they seldom make any impact on our team while 7th rounders do

bradshaw, jo williams. cox and scott
The chances of a  
Pascal4554 : 10/12/2013 10:12 pm : link
7th round pick becoming a reliable starter are very slim. If there is even a 50 percent chance Beason stays healthy and we sign him next year it was worth it. People whine about the linebackers and now when Reese makes a move for a linebacker he is criticized for investing a SEVENTH round pick. I think some people would rather we cut Manning and obtain the best linebackers money can buy. The salary cap is a zero sum game. You have to invest in some positions at the expense of others.
Pascal  
baadbill : 10/12/2013 11:38 pm : link
I don't get it. The 7th rounder is for this year - which makes zero sense since the Giants were already out of by the time of the trade.

What evidence is there that signing him for 2013 increases the Giants chances of signing him for 2014 then would have been the case had they simply waited for 2014 free agency?
RE: Pull a hamstring?  
SHO'NUFF : 10/13/2013 2:04 am : link
In comment 11274184 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
As far as Im concerned, Beason has had one injury that's a concern to the Giants. He already came back 100 % from the achilles and was playing at a high level with the Panthers after the achilles and had zero injury problems before that. He had a major ACL injury. That's about it. Looks like he's rounding back into shape. I love how everyone keeps dismissing the fact that we are getting compensatory picks next year. A 7th rounder is gonna be more like a 10th rounder. No way all our picks make the 2014 roster. Never happen.


The hamstring comment was a joke in reference to our players always getting injured or having a big time decline in performance after signing a contract. Surely, if Beason were to sign somewhere else, he would revert back to Pro Bowl form. Aside from the ACLs, I am most concerned about the microsurgery. But we will let our physicians make that decision.
RE: Pascal  
Pascal4554 : 10/13/2013 7:32 am : link
In comment 11275255 baadbill said:
Quote:

What evidence is there that signing him for 2013 increases the Giants chances of signing him for 2014 then would have been the case had they simply waited for 2014 free agency?


Before the Bears game the front office doesn't believe the season is over. Since we have him we can negotiate with him before other teams. Also, given his injury history wouldn't you rather see him suit up this year and see how he plays for us before offering him a significant contract? Why wouldn't having him play for us this year increase our chances of signing him? Most players enjoy playing for the Giants because it is a first class. It is somewhat of a gamble, but so is every standard 7th round pick. I like the move.
RE: Hammer  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/14/2013 11:35 am : link
In comment 11274894 baadbill said:
Quote:
Then what's the point of giving up a pick for him this year? What was the Giants record when the trade was made? They were already done for the year (sadly) ... Getting Beason because Giants can lock him up for a few years - contingent upon his being healthy - would at least make some sense to me (still prefer youth but, hey...) - But who gives a damn if he plays great this year and is gone next year? This year is (and was) already over - giving away draft picks is just stupid.


To see if he can play. It's not about just 2013. Regardless of the opinions of the board populace, it's pretty evident the Giants think 6th and 7th rounders are disposable currency. If fans want to think picks that late are critical, there's no telling them otherwise, but the only thing that matters is what the front office thinks. What they told you is they like Beason's chances of being relevant much more than whatever leftovers are in the 7th round of a draft six months from now.

They think Beason can play. They brought him in because they think highly of him. If he can stay healthy, they have the inside track to keep him.
Hammer  
baadbill : 10/14/2013 12:22 pm : link
The one thing you say which I have to absolutely disagree with is the statement: "it's pretty evident the Giants think 6th and 7th rounders are disposable currency."

The draft is a complete crap shoot - even 1st rounders - and the one thing that increases your chances overall is quantity of selections - now maybe you're right about the current regime since it appears they can't get very much value out of any of their draft picks these past few years, but with all such sarcasm aside, draft picks are the single most valuable commodity that exists in Jerry Reese's world.
Certain draft picks are certainly valuable  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/14/2013 12:28 pm : link
but not getting value out of picks that late in the draft is not something that's only endemic to the Giants. It's true for just about every team.

Picks in that range are like lottery scratch offs. Sometimes you win $20 and get a special teams player. Most times you don't get anything. And sometimes due to special circumstances or just luck, you actually win a prize.

But I'd never rely on production from a 6th or 7th rd pick. That's nothing but hope and prayers.

You get football players in the first four rounds.

You get athletes who you think might be able to be football players one day after that.
Hammer  
baadbill : 10/14/2013 1:34 pm : link
You won't get any disagreement from me - except that I think you overvalue the first four rounds. Go back 5 years later and look at the first round selections and you'll be amazed how awful the selections were compared to how the players careers turned out.

The draft - including the first round (including the first 5 picks) - is a crap shoot. The first round is just less of a crap shoot than the 7th round is.

And I agree about the "scratch off lottery tickets" analogy. But that doesn't mean you don't want to collect those tickets - and you sure as heck don't just give them away.

At the end of the day, I was simply questioning whether trading fro Beason when the team was 0-4 already made any sense IF there was no benefit beyond 2013. As was noted, perhaps the Giants get some inside "first refusal" type consideration from Beason, but at the end of the day he's going to go to the highest bidder and I'm not convinced the Giants did anything but throw away a "scratch off ticket" for nothing of value beyond 2013.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner