Fire everybody: Reese, Ross, Coughlin, Gilbride, Fewell, and all the coaches.
Get a completely fresh start.
When a good team suffers a collapse the tendency is to stay with the guys who made you good in the first place. Sounds reasonable. But it usually does not work.
If you fire the coordinators, then you are hamstringing Coughlin, forcing him to work with completely new guys instead of guys he is comfortable with. If you fire Coughlin, it leads to a myriad of problems that have been well detailed on BBI the last few days.
If you fire Reese, and hire a top, new GM, he is going to want his own guys, including coaches.
The NY Giants is probably the best job in the league. Primo market. History of success. No interfering owners like you have in some of the other top places, such as Dallas and Washington. There are a lot of quality GMs, personnel guys and coaches who would come here to work with a franchise QB and brand new management team.
People who work together for a long time develop dysfunctionalities as a group. This has been documented in numerous organizational studies. Giants look like they may have reached that point. Best solution is not to try and fix the problems piecemeal but to do it wholesale. Fire 'em all.
I expect Coughlin to retire, and Gilbride, Quinn, and Fewell to all be let go.
Now as far as hirings, I dont even want to speculate, but Id be a fan of Jason Garrett as a OC candidate if he is fired from Dallas.
Outside the Dallas game, I havent had to omany gripes agout KG. His system cant work with this shit OLine. So, yes I expect him to be replaced, but if they draft or sign OLineman in the offseason - he may stay.
I would just love Jason Garrett, a NJ boy/grad coming back in charge of this offense. As a HC, he is meh... but he may see an opportunity to replace TC whenever he does retire.
TC and the staff have accomplished it all. The current roster lacks
enough outstanding players . We need the best players in all positions.
TC is a great HOF level coach but it just seems this team collapses and gives up too often. Pointing out the SB years is fine but ignoring the collapses or if as it seems a 2-4 win season why hang onto the past.
Time to move on.
You guys want it all..you can't have it all, but as fans you've done pretty DAMN WELL in his tenure as head honcho..And you'd have no problem getting rid of him? Thank goodness none of you run a nearly billion dollar company
The acknowledged best, Newsome, has made his share of hairbrained decisions, the worst of which Reese never came close to making and that is not finding a way to re-sign Boldin..He did NOT cost all that much...
The Giants have not adhered to Mr. Rickey's sound advice. And they will likely continue not to.
I'm not one of them - looking objectively over the NFL during Reese's tenure, I don't see anyone who's done a better job of picking players or managing the cap. Again - not for one season, but for a stretch of 5-10 years. The only ones who come close are Newsome and Kevin Colbert in Pittsburgh.
Even replacing TC is going to be a chore. There are a lot of candidates, but none of them proven at this level and all of them pose a huge risk to the team.
Replacing the coaching staff and GM at the same time? It's so risky to change one, that changing both yields such a low probability of success that I'd rather not go that route. Change coaches now, if the situation doesn't improve then wipe the slate clean in 3-5 years.
oh, just go out and sign a "top new GM." no problem whatsoever. those guys grow on trees. it's not like there are 20 other teams in the league struggling to find a good GM. we can just kick Reese to the curb and find someone better. no problem!
wow.
Is it really going to work, forcing new coordinators on TC?
Think of this as an incoming coordinator. You've been called by the Giants, who are currently 3-11 in their last 14 games, have experienced one season ending collapse and one complete shitshow of a season, who have dismissed their coordinators and whose coach (and likely GM at this point) is on the hot seat.
Do you take this job? Look at the positives:
- You could do a good job and be considered as a possible transition candidate should TC decide to retire.
The negatives:
- The Giants are unstable, have lost quite a few games, their coach is in a tenuous position and a down year could result in the entire staff being dismissed.
If you're the candidate, do the positives outweigh the negatives? I don't think so. I wouldn't mind keeping TC around another year, but I don't see it possible to dismiss both OC and DC and find capable replacements given the parameters of the current situation.
Like I said, though.. I'm 50/50.. I'm not totally in favor of keeping TC around. And again, his age has a lot to do with why. This may be a good opportunity to begin a new regime and have it start to bloom while Eli is still one of the better QB's in the league. If we wait and have a couple more "meh" seasons, we could be transitioning during the tail end of Eli's peak years which is what I wouldn't want.
You can turn it around quick in this league, though. Even a totally new set of coaches shouldn't mean we're not able to contend for a few years. You see teams hire new coaches and turn it around immediately all the time. Teams like Seattle, SF, Indianapolis, KC, etc all basically turned it around right away. Obviously accumulating some high picks during down years helps that but I think we could change coaches and get this thing fixed pretty quickly as long as the talent base improves.
Even if for one year, you've built up a resume in addition to the other points brought up on this thread..
WHO would pass up an opportunity, as transient as it might be, to be a coordinator in the NFL, undoubtedly an aspiring coaches dream from the get-go? In the mecca of the world no less
I think a better question might be -- are there any coaches Jerry would be comfortable working with from his days at UT-Martin or his days as a scout in the SEC ??
Coughlin would be offered a position like "Professor Emeritus" or Director of Football Ops or some such. A new coach hired by Reese would pick his own co-ordinators.
We are the New York Football Giants. We are not Cleveland. We are not Jacksonville. This kind of humiliation isn't tolerated by teams like the Giants, Steelers, Packers, etc. And when it happens, significant change is quite likely.
I think Reese survives, and he probably should, but not so much because of his great track record, but because any replacement might well be worse. It also may be true that the bad drafts of the last few years are a function of him having delegated too much authority from Ross, and allowing too much input from Coughlin. The drafts may improve if that ends.
I would get rid of Coughlin. He's too old to start a rebuilding process, even though I think he'd want to come back and try. I doubt he wants to go out this way. But that would make it nearly impossible to get rid of Gilbride and Fewell if he wanted to keep them.
Re-build connotes cleaning house across the board...Re-tool/tweaking is far more aprepos here. There is a big difference beyond a semantical one
I love TC for all he has done for this organization. Should he get another chance? Not if he insists on keeping Gilbride and Fewell. There has to be at least some major changes to the coaching staff.
One solution is bringing in stop gap Coordinators that he is comfortable and familiar with, like Spags or Mike Sullivan (once he's canned).
The other and far more palatable option imo is for him to retire at the end of the season and allow Reese to pick his own coach. He would have nothing to be ashamed of, even if he goes 0-16. He is still the best or 2nd best HC in franchise history. Giant fans will always adore him for what he has done. I think the timing is right for a change in the coaching staff. See if Reese can fix this situation with his own coach.
Re-build connotes cleaning house across the board...Re-tool/tweaking is far more aprepos here. There is a big difference beyond a semantical one
I'd normally agree Fiddy but we've got a lot of work to do, 're-tooling' makes it sound like it's more trivial and we're done in a season. Parity means we'll be competitive next year regardless, but I think this thing feels like a two year effort. Rid ourselves of the 07/11 core in year one and pick up some valuable high round picks, get some experience for some of our younger players in year one, and in year two, finish filling in gaps and we're off and running again.
The intent here has to be to aim to win a championship in the next 3-5 years, to coincide with Eli's falling off the peak.
That's why we are the Football gi
you can't just fire the coordinators and keep coughlin. coughlin has one more year on his contract and is likely done with the game after next year. so you'll have a hard time bringing in quality coordinators on a one year rental, knowing that the new head coach after coughlin will likely want to bring in his own coordinators.
so, imo, if there's coaching changes, its the whole crew, coach included
make sense?
The Giants have not adhered to Mr. Rickey's sound advice. And they will likely continue not to.
How many championships did Rickey win?
But to be honest, I think having a franchise QB has made Coughlin and Reese both look good. If the Giants had the likes of Kevin Kolb, Alex Smith ,and Michael Vick as their QB, there would be no SBs.
And I blame Reese for not putting together an OL that can protect Eli, the lynchpin of the entire team. And I blame Coughlin for forcing his QB into a scheme rather than designing the offense around him.
In general, I think head coaches have a limited shelf life. Guys like Bill Walsh and John Madden knew when to get out. Shula and Noll stayed on way too long. Joe Gibbs knew when to get out but then he came back and flopped.
I think Coughlin could lead a rebuilding program, but I also think there is a chance he might not. And I don't want to waste the remaining years of Eli's prime finding out.
We all know the definition of insanity.....the truth is that what has worked in the past is not working now.
Ain't gonna happen......
As for Reese I cannot see him being let go (and don't want him to be). I WISH that Ross would be replaced, but see no chance of that occurring either.
Management: don't forget that this includes the Maras. a couple years back, there was a bit of a turf war. Chris Mara is a bigwig. Obviously John Mara is, too. Just because Reese is the public face of Giant management, doesn't mean the Maras don't have their fingers in the pie. We don't know the closed door meetings that are leading to the poor decisions. For all we know, Reese doesn't have a free hand. Conversely, he very well may, and the Maras aren't seeing eye to eye with him. I doubt Reese is going anywhere, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.
Coaching: has Coughlin ever in his time with the Giants shown any sign of willingly part with any of his staff? If a major housecleaning is in order, the orders won't be given by TC. Having management yank his entire staff against his is a recipe for disaster. Cut them all. compounding factor: Under the stupid lame duck policy of the Giants, this is the year for extending TC. Do you really give a coach an extension coming off a pathetic year?
Injuries may give them all a reprieve, and there's a good possibility almost everyone returns.
I have nothing to say.
The problem is either bad coaching or it is bad personnel. I think most here would agree the issue is the lack of talent.
Talent falls on Reese. And I'd be much more inclined to give Reese a pass if he KNEW, heading into the season, that there was a talent issue - that he saw the problem and therefore had a long range plan in place to address it.
But that most definitely is NOT the case. He didn't see this coming. He didn't have a clue. How do I know this? Reese made that publicly apparent with his "Countdown Clock".
So, my problem is that the issue is talent - and the person in charge of the talent issue didn't have a fuck'n clue there was an issue. That, my friends, is a problem.