Since I got to watch a lot of football today, I saw a lot of WR make play after play. And it got me wondered, we always viewed Nicks as a number 1 WR, and now I am not too sure. Including guys who are out for the year, is Nicks still a top 25 WR? Here are guys I would take over him. No particular order.
1. AJ Green.
2. Josh Gordon
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Andre Johnson
5. Justin Blackmon
6. Demaryius Thomas
7. Wes Welker
8. Dez Bryant
9. Desean Jackson
10. Calvin Johnson
11. Randal Cobb
12. Jordy Nelson
13. Brandon Marshall
14. Julio Jones
15. Larry Fitzgerald.
16. Victor Cruz
Now I know many will argue some are too young to put ahead of Nicks (Blackmon/Gordon) but they are absolute beast, and having monster games on very bad teams. Now some of the WRs are getting to their final legs as well (Wayne/A. Johnson). Now there are a bunch of WRs who are in the same range if not a little worse/better.
Eric Decker, Dwayne Bowe, Antonio Brown, Roddy White, Michael Crabtree/Percy Harvin/Jeremy Maclin (all hurt) Mike Wallace, Pierre Garcon, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson.
Now Obviously Nicks is better than a lot of the aforementioned played, however the point is WR seem to be coming up in the NFL. With the holes we have just about everywhere, trading Nicks may not be the worst thing. IMO, Nicks is going to demand number 1 WR money, and as you can see - does he really stand out over a lot of these guys? I'd say no.
I'm not trying to rag on you. I just think there are posters who believe Eli can do wrong, but they jump ship on other guys when they are not playing as well as they have. Think about it.
Just because I defend Eli, doesnt mean I dont think he has struggled. I jsut dont blame him for everything.
In regards to Nicks, I dont know it just seems like there are a lot of quality WRs in the league. If Nicks was playing to 2011 form, then there isnt a debate. But he struggled last year through injuries, and has been meh so far this year.
Philly: nobody, DJax only runs one route and Nicks > Maclin
Dallas: Dez, but that's it
Washington: LOL
Detroit: Megatron
Chicago: Marshall
Green Bay: Nelson-Cobb-Jones make an excellent trio but Nicks is better than all of them; maybe an argument for Jordy but that is a stretch
Minnesota: LOL
New Orleans: Colston's dropped off, so nobody there. We're not counting Graham who is absolutely better but is a TE
Atlanta: Julio and Roddy > Nicks
Carolina: Very close between Nicks and Steve Smith, so we'll put Smith in
Tampa Bay: Nicks > VJax but it's close
Seattle: Nobody
San Francisco: Boldin
Arizona: Larry Fitz
Rams: LOL
Patriots: LOL
Dolphins: Nicks > Mike Wallace
Jets: LOL
Bills: Nicks > Stevie Johnson
Ravens: Nicks > Torrey Smith
Bengals: AJ Green, but actually closer than you think
Browns: Nobody
Steelers: Nobody, Nicks > Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders
Colts: Wayne
Titans: LOL
Texans: Andre's a shell of his former self, so no one
Jags: Blackmon doesn't have a track record yet, so no
Denver: Just Welker, Demaryius needs another good year or two
KC: Nicks > Bowe
Oakland: LOL
SD: No one
So all I've got is Cruz, Dez, Megatron, Marshall, Roddy, Julio, Boldin, Larry Fitz, AJ Green, Wayne, and Welker (that's 11 receivers)
Maybe they can't afford to keep Nicks. Maybe he doesn't even want to stay. But either way, he would be a major loss.
Your logic is flawed and your list is fantasy footballesq.
If I had my choice between Nicks and Gordon/Blackmon/Nelson/Cobb.... I am taking the latter 4, right now.
Who do you replace Nicks with.... what if Eric Decker comes cheaper? Or Jeremy Maclin? Or James Jones? James Jones in the slot with Randle/Cruz could be just fine.
Don't you think the Broncos are going to do their damness to keep Decker? That would be the smart play. The Giants will do same with Nicks.
Catch wise that would put him around 30 last year.
Yardage wise that would be around 13-14.
TDs - not even worth comparing because he could still get 7-10 easy this year.
Andre Johnson 2012: 112 receptions, 1598 yards, 4 TD
Hakeem Nicks 2012: 53 receptions, 692 yards, 3 TD
Andre Johnson 2013: 37 receptions, 407 yards, 0 TD
Hakeem Nicks 2013: 25 receptions, 442 yards, 0 TD
Last year Andre Johnson and Nicks weren't even in the same stratosphere, what exactly has Nicks done this year to change the idea that Johnson is still the better player?
Nicks has 0 pro bowls, never been top 10 in yards or catches in the NFL. Think fans tend to overrate players on their own team?
And Nicks is only 25. I was about to write how I'd rather have Demaryious Thomas for upside and youth, but Nicks is actually younger (only 3 weeks, but still kind of surprising). I'd still probably rather have Thomas though.
Josh Gordon is 22 - he might end up being awesome if he keeps his head on straight. Blackmon has a weird track record of hit and miss games. It's tough to figure out who he is as a player on such and uncompetitive team. He might end up being better though - hard to say at this point.
Andre Johnson and Roddy White might be better - they're 30+ now though. Torrey Smith is having a great season, but I don't know if I'd put him there yet. I think Nicks is better than all the Packers guys, although Cobb is a tough comp because they're very different players. Maybe Vincent Jackson over Nicks.
I'd take Nicks over Boldin (no speed), Wayne (still pretty good, but way past his prime), DeSean (one dimensional), Wallace (not actually very good and really inconsistent if you watch him), Colston (really slow now and pretty much past it)...I'm probably forgetting a couple, but that seems to be about it.
So yeah, top 25 for sure. Probably somewhere in between 10 and 20.
Without question: Victor Cruz, Dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Julio Jones, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Wes Welker, Demaryius Thomas.
Probably: Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Vincent Jackson, Percy Harvin, Anquan Boldin
Still top 20 though for sure. There are a couple guys that are closing in on that list though and depending on how they play over the next 10 games could arguably be ahead of him. (Torrey Smith, Josh Gordon, Justin Blackmon, Eric Decker)
If Nicks is traded or not resigned...... Can Sammy Watkins be a guy who becomes a top WR within 2-3 years?
A high draft pick, millions of dollars invested in training, the growing pains. The time and effort only to see him go to a competitor.
For Nicks the next 4years should be his most productive.
Production in the real world on the big stage is more important at times than regular season numbers and stats.
In the four 2011 playoff wins Nicks caught 28 passes for 444 yards, four touchdowns and 19 first downs against Atlanta, Green Bay, San Francisco and New England. The last three away from home against arguably the three best teams in the league at that time.
And there was that Hail Mary catch at the end of the first half that put the Packers away. I contend that it wasn't a real lucky Hail Mary because Nicks was tracking the ball in the air as he as running to the end zone and arrived there at the same time as the ball and leaped and pulled it in while surrounded by other players.
About the only area of this year's Giant team that most would agree is of championship caliber is their downfield passing game. Manning and Nicks and Cruz are unstoppable if Eli is given even average pass protection.
If Nicks goes, you will see how much we will miss him and it won't be pretty.
Gimme a break if you can't see that.
Does anyone see this year how much we miss Steve Smith? And that's even with Victor Cruz, who's better all around than SS was...
Nicks is a great system fit here, as was SS, and as was, in a limited but crucial way, Mario Manningham as a 3rd WR...
Randle hasn't yet replaced Mario adequately in terms of how he fits with the Nicks/VC and 3rd? trio, IMO.
The giants for some odd reason are also not running a lot of the stop fade routes that also take advantage of nicks physical play... Why? Not sure.
I don't really care where nicks is ranked... I do care that we have like 5 + players on the team and nicks is 1 of them. If he prices himself out then he walks... If not... Then good for the giants and he is not easily replaceable.
Also watch half those fcking guys in our offense and see how your fantasy football numbers look.
0-6 NO one is in top 25 and who cares anyway
I think Josh Gordon is the real deal and a bigger talent though.
I would put Nicks in the 12-20 range, but dep's point is a fair one - I think putting him beyond that 25 range means arguing for some older receivers (White, Colston) that I doubt any non-fantasy GM would select ahead of Nicks when constructing a team.
However, we havent seen that player for over 20 games now. We have seen flashes, but a lot of inconsistency. If he were to accept somewhere between 6-7 million a year - its a no brainer. However, he will probably ask for over 10 million a year - and it just might not be worth it.
Now I don't believe that, but it sure sounds like what you are saying about Nicks,
Now I don't believe that, but it sure sounds like what you are saying about Nicks,
You cant compare QBs to WRs, since the QB is far more important than a WR. And you cant compare Nicks to Eli since Nicks is a FA at the end of the year. You are assuming a team would try and trade for Eli, nothing certain.
So actually nothing you said makes any sense whatsoever.
How did I judge him harshly? I just pointed out there are a lot of good WRs in the league, and to pay him number 1 money where there is already 1 player on the team better than him.
The fact is Hakeem has not been a number 1 WR for 2 years now, so why pay him it?
After this year? Probably top 10 still. Behind Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Luck. There are a few others like Ryan, Romo, Wilson among other that he can be lump in with.
In case you havent watched a game outside NYG....guys like Brady, Ryan, Flacco, Rodgers have been less than their normal play as well this year.
In 2013, it's a fair question.
LONK - ( New Window )
Without question: Victor Cruz, Dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Julio Jones, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Wes Welker, Demaryius Thomas.
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I don't know how you can say that Victor Cruz is "without question" better than Nicks when it has been a long, on-going debate. I personally think Nicks is the superior receiver to Cruz.
I'm also not sure what makes Roddy White without question better than Nicks other than the fact that he plays 9 games per year in a dome on an offense with Julio JOnes and Tony Gonzalez and they used to have a strong offensive line.
It's hard for downfield receivers to produce in a stubborn and complicated passing system when the offensive line is terrible.
Plus, while I think he should play hard, I think it is hard to go all out knowing how easy it is to get injured when you're a pending free agent. It doesn't excuse poor behavior, but i do think it's hard to do.
You don't know what the Giants are willing to offer.
You don't know how much cap room the Giants will have.
You don't know how this season will end.
So why worry about it kid?
Nicks is a good player. If you're gonna evaluate every Giant offensive player right now you're gonna be fooled because this thing is a wreck right now. Nicks would start for a lot of teams. Eli is struggling. The OL is struggling. Nicks will struggle as a result. And by the way, Nicks is on pace for over 60 catches and 1000 yards. Not bad. He can do better and probably will do better if/when this offense gets things moving in the right direction.
It's odd that you picked NOW as the time to evaluate Nicks. I'd say it's not the best timing. WOuldn't you?
Nicks is a good player. If you're gonna evaluate every Giant offensive player right now you're gonna be fooled because this thing is a wreck right now. Nicks would start for a lot of teams. Eli is struggling. The OL is struggling. Nicks will struggle as a result. And by the way, Nicks is on pace for over 60 catches and 1000 yards. Not bad. He can do better and probably will do better if/when this offense gets things moving in the right direction.
It's odd that you picked NOW as the time to evaluate Nicks. I'd say it's not the best timing. WOuldn't you?
Because we are near the trading deadline and he is a UFA, so the front office has to decide whether or not pay this man number 1 money.
I think Nicks is better than we think if we base things off last year and this year. He's much closer to the 2010-2011 player than the 2012 player.
All things being equal, assuming this offense is at least reasonably capable, Nicks is a legit #1 and a guy worth keeping. That's my take.
I still think Cruz is a better football player though.
So if the Giants feel like Nicks might be worth bringing back on the FT deal, I don't think they even entertain offers UNLESS a team dangles a #1. And I don't think any team will.
Would you rather have a 2nd rounder or Nicks for 2 more years at the very least? I'd rather have Nicks. With that said, the Giants know more than I do with regards to Nicks' health and attitude and staying power here, so maybe they feel he has lost a step? Maybe they feel he's a bit of a dog? I doubt it...but u never know....