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Is Nicks still a top 25 WR in the league?

dep026 : 10/13/2013 9:15 pm
Since I got to watch a lot of football today, I saw a lot of WR make play after play. And it got me wondered, we always viewed Nicks as a number 1 WR, and now I am not too sure. Including guys who are out for the year, is Nicks still a top 25 WR? Here are guys I would take over him. No particular order.

1. AJ Green.
2. Josh Gordon
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Andre Johnson
5. Justin Blackmon
6. Demaryius Thomas
7. Wes Welker
8. Dez Bryant
9. Desean Jackson
10. Calvin Johnson
11. Randal Cobb
12. Jordy Nelson
13. Brandon Marshall
14. Julio Jones
15. Larry Fitzgerald.
16. Victor Cruz

Now I know many will argue some are too young to put ahead of Nicks (Blackmon/Gordon) but they are absolute beast, and having monster games on very bad teams. Now some of the WRs are getting to their final legs as well (Wayne/A. Johnson). Now there are a bunch of WRs who are in the same range if not a little worse/better.

Eric Decker, Dwayne Bowe, Antonio Brown, Roddy White, Michael Crabtree/Percy Harvin/Jeremy Maclin (all hurt) Mike Wallace, Pierre Garcon, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson.

Now Obviously Nicks is better than a lot of the aforementioned played, however the point is WR seem to be coming up in the NFL. With the holes we have just about everywhere, trading Nicks may not be the worst thing. IMO, Nicks is going to demand number 1 WR money, and as you can see - does he really stand out over a lot of these guys? I'd say no.
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I guess we learned nothing from the Cruz situation last season  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/14/2013 4:34 am : link
When he wasn't worth paying, was just a replaceable slot guy made by Eli, and Nicks was the no-brainer keeper.


Nice job by dpinzow going through the league's WRs team by team.  
BlueLou : 10/14/2013 5:56 am : link
Nicks is still top 15 IMO too. Yeah he's slipped from where he was 2 years ago, but some of that is the OL, and some is Eli himself.

Gimme a break if you can't see that.
2 more things...  
BlueLou : 10/14/2013 6:01 am : link
I wonder how Nicks would look if HE played with the OTHER Manning? (Re Demaryius Thomas).

Does anyone see this year how much we miss Steve Smith? And that's even with Victor Cruz, who's better all around than SS was...

Nicks is a great system fit here, as was SS, and as was, in a limited but crucial way, Mario Manningham as a 3rd WR...

Randle hasn't yet replaced Mario adequately in terms of how he fits with the Nicks/VC and 3rd? trio, IMO.
good luck to cruz and randle  
hitdog42 : 10/14/2013 6:27 am : link
When teams enter games not gameplanning with their #1 corner on nicks.
The giants for some odd reason are also not running a lot of the stop fade routes that also take advantage of nicks physical play... Why? Not sure.
I don't really care where nicks is ranked... I do care that we have like 5 + players on the team and nicks is 1 of them. If he prices himself out then he walks... If not... Then good for the giants and he is not easily replaceable.
Also watch half those fcking guys in our offense and see how your fantasy football numbers look.

Nicks  
djstat : 10/14/2013 7:26 am : link
Is solid but he is only top 15 based on potential. Not production. You can say how other teams game plan for him. Well then other teams CBs are better then he is this year.


0-6 NO one is in top 25 and who cares anyway
lol  
Loluchka80 : 10/14/2013 8:46 am : link
Nicks isn't the best WR on the Giants. Maybe 3rd best.
he's definitely top 25, probably just on the outside  
UConn4523 : 10/14/2013 8:52 am : link
of top 15. He's clearly uninterested though, and the rest of the offensive woes aren't helping.

I think Josh Gordon is the real deal and a bigger talent though.
Interesting thread  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 9:04 am : link
and well-argued, I think. People are getting bogged down in the individual names a bit, which is OK. I think we can all agree on a group that is clearly better (5-7?), with reasonable debate on another 10-15ish.

I would put Nicks in the 12-20 range, but dep's point is a fair one - I think putting him beyond that 25 range means arguing for some older receivers (White, Colston) that I doubt any non-fantasy GM would select ahead of Nicks when constructing a team.
I dont understand why people keep referencing  
dep026 : 10/14/2013 9:33 am : link
the 2011 playoffs as means of a ranking. Sure, if Hakeem was playing to that level, this topic would never come up.

However, we havent seen that player for over 20 games now. We have seen flashes, but a lot of inconsistency. If he were to accept somewhere between 6-7 million a year - its a no brainer. However, he will probably ask for over 10 million a year - and it just might not be worth it.
You just stepped in it  
oldutican : 10/14/2013 9:47 am : link
Let's use the same logic about Eli. He sure as hell isn't playing up to his 2011 level and he sure seems overpriced. Where does he rank among NFL QBs? Using the logic you have toward Nicks, Eli isn't a top 20. Maybe they should unload his salary, get some picks and draft one of the top QBs.

Now I don't believe that, but it sure sounds like what you are saying about Nicks,
RE: You just stepped in it  
dep026 : 10/14/2013 9:54 am : link
In comment 11277358 oldutican said:
Quote:
Let's use the same logic about Eli. He sure as hell isn't playing up to his 2011 level and he sure seems overpriced. Where does he rank among NFL QBs? Using the logic you have toward Nicks, Eli isn't a top 20. Maybe they should unload his salary, get some picks and draft one of the top QBs.

Now I don't believe that, but it sure sounds like what you are saying about Nicks,


You cant compare QBs to WRs, since the QB is far more important than a WR. And you cant compare Nicks to Eli since Nicks is a FA at the end of the year. You are assuming a team would try and trade for Eli, nothing certain.

So actually nothing you said makes any sense whatsoever.
Point is the same  
oldutican : 10/14/2013 10:08 am : link
You judge other players more harshly than you judge Eli. So using the same standard you used for Nicks of how a guy has played the past 2 years, where do you rank Eli among NFL QBs?
RE: Point is the same  
dep026 : 10/14/2013 10:20 am : link
In comment 11277401 oldutican said:
Quote:
You judge other players more harshly than you judge Eli. So using the same standard you used for Nicks of how a guy has played the past 2 years, where do you rank Eli among NFL QBs?


How did I judge him harshly? I just pointed out there are a lot of good WRs in the league, and to pay him number 1 money where there is already 1 player on the team better than him.

The fact is Hakeem has not been a number 1 WR for 2 years now, so why pay him it?
RE: Point is the same  
dep026 : 10/14/2013 10:22 am : link
In comment 11277401 oldutican said:
Quote:
You judge other players more harshly than you judge Eli. So using the same standard you used for Nicks of how a guy has played the past 2 years, where do you rank Eli among NFL QBs?


After this year? Probably top 10 still. Behind Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Luck. There are a few others like Ryan, Romo, Wilson among other that he can be lump in with.

In case you havent watched a game outside NYG....guys like Brady, Ryan, Flacco, Rodgers have been less than their normal play as well this year.
At 0-2, people on here kept invoking 2011.  
vibe4giants : 10/14/2013 11:02 am : link
Now that we're at 0-6, you'd think it'd finally sink in that it's not 2011 anymore.

In 2013, it's a fair question.
Wide receivers are "shiny hood ornaments"  
PEEJ : 10/14/2013 11:04 am : link
Discuss
LONK - ( New Window )
On the planet Mars  
PaulN : 10/14/2013 11:05 am : link
Maybe, not in the NFL, he has stunk for 2 years now, time to rate him on performance instead of what we all dream he is.
RE: Here's the list that I would take over Nicks at this point  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/14/2013 11:17 am : link
In comment 11277046 Mike in Jersey said:
Quote:
I'll break it up into 2 groups, guys that are without question better than Nicks, and guys that are probably better, but you can argue either way.

Without question: Victor Cruz, Dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Julio Jones, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Wes Welker, Demaryius Thomas.
)


I don't know how you can say that Victor Cruz is "without question" better than Nicks when it has been a long, on-going debate. I personally think Nicks is the superior receiver to Cruz.

I'm also not sure what makes Roddy White without question better than Nicks other than the fact that he plays 9 games per year in a dome on an offense with Julio JOnes and Tony Gonzalez and they used to have a strong offensive line.

It's hard for downfield receivers to produce in a stubborn and complicated passing system when the offensive line is terrible.

Plus, while I think he should play hard, I think it is hard to go all out knowing how easy it is to get injured when you're a pending free agent. It doesn't excuse poor behavior, but i do think it's hard to do.
dep  
Rob_MTL : 10/14/2013 11:27 am : link
You don't know what Nicks demands are.
You don't know what the Giants are willing to offer.
You don't know how much cap room the Giants will have.
You don't know how this season will end.

So why worry about it kid?
Got to try to bring Nicks back  
eightshamrocks : 10/14/2013 3:16 pm : link
I cringe at what the Giants offense would look like next season minus Nicks. If you think the offense looks bad this season, just wait till next year when Nicks isn't here to take pressure of Cruz. Only having two good receivers in Cruz and Randle ain't gonna cut the mustard for the Giants. The rest of the receivers on the team are not even average or average at best.
While I'd love to have Nicks back I would not break the bank for him  
SGMen : 10/14/2013 3:22 pm : link
There are so many holes on this team that it isn't even funny. Losing Nicks would likely hurt but your never know if a kid will step up or something at 1/50th the price!
Dep  
djm : 10/14/2013 5:05 pm : link
WRs need a functioning offense to fully flourish. Blackmon? Has that guy made a play in a big spot even once during his career? Some of those guys you listed....a stretch.

Nicks is a good player. If you're gonna evaluate every Giant offensive player right now you're gonna be fooled because this thing is a wreck right now. Nicks would start for a lot of teams. Eli is struggling. The OL is struggling. Nicks will struggle as a result. And by the way, Nicks is on pace for over 60 catches and 1000 yards. Not bad. He can do better and probably will do better if/when this offense gets things moving in the right direction.

It's odd that you picked NOW as the time to evaluate Nicks. I'd say it's not the best timing. WOuldn't you?
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 10/14/2013 5:07 pm : link
In comment 11278374 djm said:
Quote:
WRs need a functioning offense to fully flourish. Blackmon? Has that guy made a play in a big spot even once during his career? Some of those guys you listed....a stretch.

Nicks is a good player. If you're gonna evaluate every Giant offensive player right now you're gonna be fooled because this thing is a wreck right now. Nicks would start for a lot of teams. Eli is struggling. The OL is struggling. Nicks will struggle as a result. And by the way, Nicks is on pace for over 60 catches and 1000 yards. Not bad. He can do better and probably will do better if/when this offense gets things moving in the right direction.

It's odd that you picked NOW as the time to evaluate Nicks. I'd say it's not the best timing. WOuldn't you?


Because we are near the trading deadline and he is a UFA, so the front office has to decide whether or not pay this man number 1 money.
you're right  
djm : 10/14/2013 5:13 pm : link
that 2011 was a long time ago. But Nicks is only 25 and not exactly banged up.

I think Nicks is better than we think if we base things off last year and this year. He's much closer to the 2010-2011 player than the 2012 player.

All things being equal, assuming this offense is at least reasonably capable, Nicks is a legit #1 and a guy worth keeping. That's my take.

I still think Cruz is a better football player though.
unless a team offers a #1  
djm : 10/14/2013 5:17 pm : link
I highly doubt the Giants trade him unless they are absolutely convinced Nicks won't be back next year. And with the FT in their pocket, I don't know why they would feel that way. NY controls Nicks for 2 more years if they so desire.

So if the Giants feel like Nicks might be worth bringing back on the FT deal, I don't think they even entertain offers UNLESS a team dangles a #1. And I don't think any team will.

Would you rather have a 2nd rounder or Nicks for 2 more years at the very least? I'd rather have Nicks. With that said, the Giants know more than I do with regards to Nicks' health and attitude and staying power here, so maybe they feel he has lost a step? Maybe they feel he's a bit of a dog? I doubt it...but u never know....
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