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NFT: Bob Costas STFU

giantsfan227B : 10/13/2013 10:06 pm
When did anyone give a crap what Bob Costas has to say. He along with his liberal media bias of the peacock network have to chime in on a football team name. Once again he doesn't say who maybe offended by the Redskin name. Instead he uses his PC agenda to say it is offensive so it should be changed. Why? Because I said so.

I agree with him that if blacks, hispanics or another group had a team named after them like negros or something of the like it probably would be changed. However those groups have consistently said they do not want to be called colored, or negros etc.. As Daniel Schneiders letter explained, the overwhelming majority of Native Americans either don't have a problem or haven't expressed an opinion. So where does Bob Costas feel the need to stand up for a group that really hasn't asked for help.

Hey Bob, sit down and just analyze the game.
Why do you want to shut him up?  
Overseer : 10/13/2013 10:07 pm : link
Are you so excitable that ignoring something you disagree with is too much to ask? The game is already back on, by the way...
Is this Daniel Snyder?  
Anakim : 10/13/2013 10:08 pm : link
?
If they agree with the op  
BUgiantfan : 10/13/2013 10:17 pm : link
people are smart. If they disagree with him, it's typical liberal bias of the media. Got it.
...  
rut17 : 10/13/2013 10:21 pm : link
Grrrrr! Outrage!

Who's Daniel Schneider?
Fuck off with your liberal media bias BS  
moespree : 10/13/2013 10:21 pm : link
.
Yay  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/13/2013 10:21 pm : link
Another idiotic thread!
You are right, especially about the bias,  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/13/2013 10:22 pm : link
but I didn't even know he was still alive. Wow.
Man  
Adam XLII : 10/13/2013 10:24 pm : link
Sometimes I can't believe I'm of the same species of some people.


heaven forbid he speak up for what he thinks is right  
chris r : 10/13/2013 10:24 pm : link
lest he offend your delicate people-shouldn't-be-so-sensitive sensibilities.
This thread is getting deleted in  
MaineGiantFan : 10/13/2013 10:27 pm : link
5,43,2....
The first one was better  
Overseer : 10/13/2013 10:29 pm : link
an issue so swept under the rug that it might as well be a crusty dead fly. But tonight's argument was pretty interesting, if unoriginal.
Excellent trolling.  
Cam in MO : 10/13/2013 10:30 pm : link
All serious responses so far.


Definitely and E for effort at the least.
Giantsfan  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/13/2013 10:37 pm : link
I hope you did not expect to get a lot of positive comments. BBI is loaded with libs. Plus, any thread that is remotely near political is frowned upon. One more thread like this one and you will not be invited to the BBI awards banquet this year.
I'm not liberal  
Larry from WV : 10/13/2013 10:45 pm : link
And I still think the name should have changed years ago. Sometimes the right thing is non partisan.
EricJ  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/13/2013 10:46 pm : link
So being liberal means not approving of a racial slur for a team name?... scratch that... being liberal means you don't want said racial slur's legitimacy to be discussed during halftime of a football game the team is playing?

I don't color myself a liberal, but if that's the case, then I sure am.
Any major media figure or politician  
Knineteen : 10/13/2013 10:50 pm : link
is going to support the name change because it's good and easy press. Any objection to the name change can be so easily twisted and spun to make the objector look like a racist. If someone stands to lose something, it's easier to play it safe.
Bob Costas makes mundane correct point  
Kyle : 10/13/2013 11:52 pm : link
People who are wrong get angry. Sweet.
Costas' opinion  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/14/2013 12:14 am : link
reaffirmed my opinion. Thanks, Bob.
As someone who has worked on a reservation with Native Americans,  
MOOPS : 10/14/2013 12:19 am : link
I can assure you that the word Redskin is indeed offensive.
lmao @ the OP  
Nick from Goa : 10/14/2013 12:35 am : link
hahahahhaha
ummm...  
KentGraham : 10/14/2013 12:48 am : link
lol
A lot of people will tell you that things like racism, prejudice,  
j_rud : 10/14/2013 2:28 am : link
and good ol' fashion ignorance are by and large a thing of the past and today are mostly an overblown creation of a liberal media with a PC agenda. But this here post proves those things are alive and strong. Oh where to even start...
While I don't personally have strong feelings on this issue  
The Duke : 10/14/2013 2:44 am : link
one way or the other, I can objectively see both sides of the matter and understand how some people find the name offensive, although I do not think there is any large public outcry over it unless the media continues to constantly stir the pot and fan the flames as always looking to create a story that just isn't there. I can definitely say, however, that I sure am glad the name of my favorite team isn't "Redskins"! The Giants have enough problems of their own just trying to field a team that isn't an embarassment on the field these days without also dealing with an issue like this!
So you think if a team were named the "negroes"  
j_rud : 10/14/2013 3:05 am : link
"it would probably be changed"? Well thats awfully progressive of you. The fact that you recognize the term redskin as a pejorative used to marginalize minorities similar to those used against blacks and hispanics yet are still outraged about someone expressing their opinion on changing the name displays a pretty significant level of bass-ackwards "thinking".
I just don't like when "celebrities" use their forum to dictate  
PatersonPlank : 10/14/2013 6:08 am : link
their political opinions to the rest of us. This is regardless if I agree or not. I watch them for other reasons, not to listen to them push their beliefs.
..  
Ryan in Albany : 10/14/2013 6:44 am : link
Im surprised Costas didn't try to somehow correlate the Redskins name to gun violence, might as well go for the uber-headline grab
..  
Ryan in Albany : 10/14/2013 6:45 am : link
"Hi, I'm Bob Costas, and I want to weigh in on the Redskins name controversy because I'm the patron midget of self-righteousness."
Bunch of white  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 7:39 am : link
Football fans can't figure out why the term "redskins" may be offensive.

Color me shocked.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 10/14/2013 7:41 am : link
Quote:
Bunch of white
Rob in NYC : 7:39 am : link : reply
Football fans can't figure out why the term "redskins" may be offensive.

Color me shocked.


....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/14/2013 7:42 am : link
I tried to bold the "Color me shocked" part... Monday morning fail...
I am extremely liberal when it comes to social issues...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/14/2013 7:49 am : link
I just do not think any of that should be the focus during an NFL game. We get nonstop news and political nonsense on every other show you watch. Can I please just watch a football game and remove myself from all of the other bullshit happening around us?

My biggest issue with Costas..  
Sean in PA : 10/14/2013 7:54 am : link
he calls football violent and appears to have an issue with it, yet continues to cover it and collect a paycheck.
Sean, Costas is an ass..  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/14/2013 7:58 am : link
with his holier than thou, condescending tone that he always seems to have. You can throw Lupica into that conversation too.
Clear something up for me:  
Randy in CT : 10/14/2013 7:59 am : link
Which group of Native Americans/Indians desires to be called Redskins? Thanks in advance.
Randy, let me clear this up for you...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/14/2013 8:16 am : link
what we are discussing is not whether the Redskins should change the name, whether it is offensive, etc. The point here is whether Costas should be spewing his personal opinion on the subject(or opinion of NBC) at halftime of a football game.

He may also have a point about Obamacare and whether Charles Manson should be released from prison. We dont want to hear that at halftime either.
Why isn't anyone  
rebel yell : 10/14/2013 8:16 am : link
complaining about the Chiefs, or maybe they are and I'm just not listening.
Um....  
Cam in MO : 10/14/2013 8:18 am : link
Quote:
The point here is whether Costas should be spewing his personal opinion on the subject(or opinion of NBC) at halftime of a football game.



Being that it's what he gets paid to do and that it is actually related to football...I don't get the ire?



RE: Why isn't anyone  
Cam in MO : 10/14/2013 8:19 am : link
In comment 11277191 rebel yell said:
Quote:
complaining about the Chiefs, or maybe they are and I'm just not listening.



Because last time I checked, "Chief" isn't a derogatory word?



Eric,  
GiantFilthy : 10/14/2013 8:21 am : link
you are asking why we have to watch Costas discuss his personal opinion on a professional football team's name during the halftime of a professional football game.

It's relevant.
Fuck you, Chief.  
GiantFilthy : 10/14/2013 8:22 am : link
.
Blow me, Tanto.  
Cam in MO : 10/14/2013 8:24 am : link
...
^^^^  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/14/2013 8:26 am : link
lmao
Filthy...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/14/2013 8:27 am : link
I guess Costas may as well discuss it since he knows nothing about football.

Whiny non-liberal  
schabadoo : 10/14/2013 8:31 am : link
.
Can you think the name Redskins  
buford : 10/14/2013 8:35 am : link
is offensive and Bob Costas is a total douche at the same time?
Eric, it is his opinion.  
Randy in CT : 10/14/2013 8:36 am : link
**SHUDDER**
Most people, including native americans  
sb2003 : 10/14/2013 8:37 am : link
don't really care about the name.
sb,  
GiantFilthy : 10/14/2013 8:39 am : link
source?
name WILL  
aquidneck : 10/14/2013 9:04 am : link
be changed eventually. Name is genuinely offensive to some folks and that's how these things work. Call for change will be relentless and impossible to ignore forever.

The positionof those holding on to a preference for the peecieved racist name will find themselves in untenable position.
So lemme get this straight...  
j_rud : 10/14/2013 9:21 am : link
In comment 11277190 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said:
Quote:
what we are discussing is not whether the Redskins should change the name, whether it is offensive, etc. The point here is whether Costas should be spewing his personal opinion on the subject(or opinion of NBC) at halftime of a football game.

He may also have a point about Obamacare and whether Charles Manson should be released from prison. We dont want to hear that at halftime either.


So the rub here isn't the opinion, it's that a sports commentator is commentating on an issue relevant to sports? Sweet Jesus Tapdancing Christ. And if you can't distinguish the difference, meaning, intent, and impact between "Chief" and "Redskin" I'd be shocked to learn you can walk and breath at the same time.
If Descartes were right, almost half of you do not exist.  
jcn56 : 10/14/2013 9:23 am : link
.
Well Rene was obviously wrong.  
j_rud : 10/14/2013 9:27 am : link
Cuz there's a whole lot of people not thinking but they're still here, pissing me off.
.  
SethFromAstoria : 10/14/2013 9:30 am : link
So you're upset that a guy who is paid to give his opinion  
Mike from Ohio : 10/14/2013 9:33 am : link
on football, expressed an opinion on football during a football game? Is there a punchline to this?

We live in a society where people are allowed to have different opinions. Very sorry if that bothers you. Maybe you should not watch NBC?

i found some more bias!  
SethFromAstoria : 10/14/2013 9:33 am : link
jcn...  
Chris in Philly : 10/14/2013 9:33 am : link
Here's hoping...
I do believe that Snyder will change it sooner than later  
KentGraham : 10/14/2013 9:37 am : link
simply because of the trademark issue. If Snyder changes it now, I doubt the issue is pursued further, and he will maintain the trademark on the name. To Snyder and the NFL, that trademark has a lot of value.

If this issue goes through the courts and the team loses the trademark, which is the most likely way to force them to change their name, then anyone can print and sell "Redskins" apparel and merchandise without any legal repercussions.

No one can force them to change the name, but they can certainly lose their trademark. And that is a big part of the issue, because racial slurs can't be given trademark protection.
Washington Natives  
Overseer : 10/14/2013 10:17 am : link
is a badass name. They could preserve the general theme of the org and remove the slur at the same time. And Dan Snyder could dress as a Native American toddler at home games for added effect.
This is the same guy that said  
Curtis in VA : 10/14/2013 10:32 am : link
the snoozefest we call baseball is actually "compelling" and "engaging."

He obviously is clueless. ;-)
for some 70 years  
SalTony56 : 10/14/2013 10:37 am : link
this was not a problem, but events November of 2008 and again 2012 this emboldens certain segments of the media to force their own political agenda on society.
This can be pointed to an issue for NA groups as early as 1992...  
UAGiant : 10/14/2013 10:43 am : link
But its much easier to spout platitudes and create boogeymen of the people you don't vote for.
How about changing the name...  
GiantJake : 10/14/2013 10:46 am : link
to honor the tribe that originally lived in the Washington DC area? They were called the Piscataways. The Washington Piscataways. They could call them the Pissers or the Scat for short. Maybe we should ask any remaining descendants of the Piscataway tribe what they think. If we can actually find one......
Care level  
Johnny5 : 10/14/2013 10:46 am : link
What we should really do is have the Bucs donate a bunch of  
Cam in MO : 10/14/2013 10:48 am : link
towels from their practice facility to the Redskins.





RE: ....  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 10:51 am : link
In comment 11277150 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I tried to bold the "Color me shocked" part... Monday morning fail...


I see what you did there - failed.
I think Washington Rainbows would be most appropriate  
Curtis in VA : 10/14/2013 10:55 am : link
that way everybody is happy.

And their new uniforms would look really awesome.
SalTony  
MadPlaid : 10/14/2013 10:58 am : link
This has been an issue for many years (longer than 70) with protests and legal challenges. Only recently has it gained steam again. Try not being an obtuse cretin. This isn't an issue of the media's political agenda. It is an issue of an offensive racial slur mascarading as a team name.
Sadly, I think SalTony56 actually believes what they typed  
schabadoo : 10/14/2013 10:59 am : link
.
Haha!  
SanFranGiantsFan : 10/14/2013 11:06 am : link
'Liberal media bias'.

Love it.
I think I'd favor a name change more  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 11:07 am : link
if there was significant and proactive - not occasional and fleeting - action taken by Native American groups. There was massive mobilization by women and black people behind the suffrage and civil rights movements, respectively, when they determined that the status quo was bullshit.

I'm sure there are many Native Americans who appreciate Bob Costas' condescension but if this really is a bigger deal to them than "Yeah, I'm offended. What was I doing again?", I'm sure they can speak up for themselves.
So the  
Pork and Beans : 10/14/2013 11:19 am : link
concerned parties only occasionally let it be known they are offended, and that is not good enough. The generally poor native american population needs to spend a certain dollar amount on media buys and lobbyists over a certain number of years to gain your support? Sweet. It would be easier though if you let them know how much they need to spend and over how long a period to sway you.
RE: RE: ....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/14/2013 11:22 am : link
In comment 11277494 RB^2 said:
Quote:
In comment 11277150 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I tried to bold the "Color me shocked" part... Monday morning fail...



I see what you did there - failed.


Haters gonna hate.
What does spending  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 11:28 am : link
have to do with anything? There are ways of influencing public opinion that don't necessitate hiring expensive K Street lobbyists, like protests, demonstrations, civil disobedience, etc. if you care enough. I recommend you pick up a history book sometime.
I recommend  
Pork and Beans : 10/14/2013 11:38 am : link
that you ask anyone who has tried to influence public opinion how difficult it is. How long and hard did your referenced blacks and women have to battle to get basic civil rights changes?

The fact that they have tried in the past, regardless of how much energy they exerted should be enough, not how far a very small minority group (much smaller that blacks and women) got with their campaigns.
RE: I think I'd favor a name change more  
UAGiant : 10/14/2013 11:51 am : link
In comment 11277545 RB^2 said:
Quote:
if there was significant and proactive - not occasional and fleeting - action taken by Native American groups. There was massive mobilization by women and black people behind the suffrage and civil rights movements, respectively, when they determined that the status quo was bullshit.

I'm sure there are many Native Americans who appreciate Bob Costas' condescension but if this really is a bigger deal to them than "Yeah, I'm offended. What was I doing again?", I'm sure they can speak up for themselves.


The problem with that is simply the demographics. There are just under 3 million people who are identified as Native American (according to the 2010 Census), or roughly less than 1% of the population. Of that less than 1% population, there are 30+ Tribal nations recognized by the US Gov't (which prevents a "singular voice"). Furthermore, there's very minimal concentration of the population geographically - and typically those with higher density are of much lower income (due to it most likely being a reservation). Compound the small number with the reality that the group has a median income of ~$35k and around 25% of the population living in poverty.

There isn't a singular, concentrated voice and the whole "Why don't they just speak up" doesn't really work when you're a dispersed and very small population and crushing poverty rates - what options do you really have to combat something like this?
Like what?  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 11:53 am : link
What exactly have Native American groups done to advance this issue? They're not fighting to overturn the entire establishment, they just want to get a company to change its name - a change that most of the country would probably not object to at all. It's pretty much a slam dunk if they want it. The fact that it hasn't happened is a pretty strong evidence that they just don't care enough.

Seriously, how hard would it be to get a few hundred of them to do a sit in at Redskins training camp, or demonstrate peacefully at the FedEx Field parking lot and put the onus on Danny Boy to remove them forcibly?

The idea that this is really important to Native Americans but at the same time they don't really do anything just doesn't pass the sniff test, IMO.

This issue is really just a hobby horse for bored journalists and people who like to be, as Stan Marsh once put it, "political and stuff".
They do protest...  
UAGiant : 10/14/2013 12:01 pm : link
There was a protest at Lambeau earlier this season and there are often people at FedEx protesting.

Again - there's not a huge population and there's next to no concentration in the Maryland/DC/Virginia area. Those affluent enough to lead this are. Those who are struggling to keep food on the table are worrying about that instead.

There's more to a situation than expecting one group to behave the ways other's have historically - especially when you take the time to realize the socioeconomic situation of many doesn't permit the majority to travel to Landover, MD to protest this weekly in any great numbers.
RE: heaven forbid he speak up for what he thinks is right  
Kyle : 10/14/2013 12:02 pm : link
In comment 11276847 chris r said:
Quote:
lest he offend your delicate people-shouldn't-be-so-sensitive sensibilities.


This is the best post on the thread. Rob's is a close runner-up.

People annoyed at other people being "sensitive" seem awfully sensitive to being told they're wrong.
RE: They do protest...  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 12:03 pm : link
In comment 11277713 UAGiant said:
Quote:
There was a protest at Lambeau earlier this season and there are often people at FedEx protesting.

Again - there's not a huge population and there's next to no concentration in the Maryland/DC/Virginia area. Those affluent enough to lead this are. Those who are struggling to keep food on the table are worrying about that instead.

There's more to a situation than expecting one group to behave the ways other's have historically - especially when you take the time to realize the socioeconomic situation of many doesn't permit the majority to travel to Landover, MD to protest this weekly in any great numbers.


Then I guess they can feel fortunate to have such generous and benevolent backers as Costas and yourself.
RB  
MadPlaid : 10/14/2013 12:05 pm : link
There are protests going on right now. I have linked to an article in the NY Daily News which includes an imbedded video of one such protest that is going on right now.

The protests aren't very big, but they do exist. Apparently, it is important to Native Americans.
This time with the link  
MadPlaid : 10/14/2013 12:07 pm : link
sorry
Link - ( New Window )
Great addition to the discussion...  
UAGiant : 10/14/2013 12:11 pm : link
Please use more South Park quotes to back your argument, as they're much more effective than statistics and simple Google searches for "Native American Protest Redskins" to see what you're complaining about not happening is clearly happening.
Costas, Lupica, Reilly...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/14/2013 12:11 pm : link
they're all well overpaid dinosaurs who did a good job tricking their employers into thinking they're worth their salary.
That's some colossal arrogance: presuming to tell the affected group  
schnitzie : 10/14/2013 12:20 pm : link
what they should have to do to gain the basic respect they are asking for, particularly when the one insisting on such measures hasn't even bothered to look into it for himself.

"Those negroes really ought to make a more concerted effort to make ignoramuses like me aware of their objections to the poll tax."
If they're the ones driving the change  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 12:21 pm : link
then I can get behind it, as I've said in case you missed it.
Haha!  
BigBlueBuff : 10/14/2013 12:23 pm : link
In comment 11277474 SalTony56 said:
Quote:
but events November of 2008 and again 2012 this emboldens certain segments of the media to force their own political agenda on society.

Deep, deep, deep in the echo chamber.
I don't exactly  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 12:24 pm : link
understand what people are supporting when they argue against a name change.

1. is there some slippery slope here where some perjoratives that are more popular may come under fire next?
2. not enough people are protesting or are offended? Taken to an extreme, would the word suddenly become OK to use if the U.S. had actually succeeded in its genocide of the native population?
3. the word isn't a slur?

The word is unquestionably a slur - we can argue how frequently it gets used or how recently its been used, but I don't see the validity of those arguments - do those arguments support bringing back "Sambo's" restaurants?
the line  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 12:24 pm : link
between "offensive" and "inoffensive" is completely subjective and grey enough that i simply don't give a shit if ONE person claims offense to anything.

the line between "offensive" and "so offensive that it requires immediate action" is a little clearer and, as Pork and Beans suggested above, gets even clearer if there is money and power behind the movement. Native Americans simply don't have enough of either one to advance their agenda.

i feel badly for them that they can't, but i think they'd be better served addressing the real problems they face like substance abuse and poverty. the name of a football team is pretty meaningless in comparison and is yet another way to distract a constituency from focusing on the issues which truly require their focus.
M - can we  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 12:27 pm : link
acknowledge the possibility that raising awareness to the continued struggles of Native Americans by working toward a name change and addressing the very valid issues you mentioned are not mutually exclusive?
Rob  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 12:27 pm : link
only if the restaurant is run by Russian martial artists, in which case, it's cool.
they are  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 12:29 pm : link
certainly not mutually exclusive and i didn't mean to suggest as much. but correct me if i'm wrong, there isn't as much fervor over curbing Native American alcoholism as there is over this.

it's somewhat wasted effort, in my view.
M - honestly  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 12:33 pm : link
I know very little about what is being done about those issues, and I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment expressed in your post.
My life is complete  
TJ : 10/14/2013 12:33 pm : link
I've lived long enough to see a mulinational multi-billion dollar corporation like Comcast described as "liberal". That must bump my own position on the ideological continuum into another dimension.
M  
chris r : 10/14/2013 12:37 pm : link
do you think the NFL is the appropriate platform to address the myriad problems facing NA communities?

I don't see a high opportunity cost for changing the name. In exchange for giving NAs a bit more dignity, sports fans have to re-associate with a new name for a team? Or white guys have to feel the frightening grip of political correctness tighten? What exactly is the cost of changing the teams name and how is it not worth giving NAs a bit more dignity, and frankly, giving all Americans a bit dignity.
Native American alcoholism  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 12:41 pm : link
is six times the normal rate of alcoholism in America and 1 in 10 Native American deaths are due to alcohol.

whatever is being done about it, it's not nearly enough.

personally, i'd prefer to see guys like Costas USE the team name issue as a means to promote awareness of other, more serious issues. but that doesn't happen. it's all about football.
Link - ( New Window )
chris r  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 12:43 pm : link
yes, i do. the NFL is a potential platform for all sorts of messages and agendas that are not specific to football. sportsmanship, fair play, hard work, teamwork, community outreach, breast cancer awareness, etc.

if the league and the team care about native americans so much, where is the anti-alcohol message? oh wait, that'd conflict with the beer sponsorships. never mind.
its just such a bizarre point  
chris r : 10/14/2013 12:46 pm : link
Costas shouldn't speak up about a football team's offensive name on a football broadcast because there are so many other more important non-football related issues he should speak out against.

So then if he speaks out against NA alcoholism (whatever that would mean), would he then be criticized for not speaking out against more important issues (affecting more people) like global food security?
if those  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 12:50 pm : link
are the logical conclusions that you drew from what i wrote, then i'm not even going to bother responding to that. have a good day.
M  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 12:50 pm : link
That's not nearly as sexy - or as easy - as scoring one against a target this obvious so I wouldn't count on Bob to step up here.
M your point is ridiculous  
Sgrcts : 10/14/2013 12:54 pm : link
Changing the Redskins name is something that needs to be handled on a national front, because the idiot in charge won't do the right thing. Therefore, having a national platform like Costas does is an opportunity to bring the message to the people.

Native American alcoholism is a COMMUNITY issue, therefore the efforts to combat it need to be done on a community level.

If you think a random white dude at halftime of a football game should take the opportunity to discuss a social issue that should be handled on a community level rather then a football issue that should be handled on a national level......
Snider's got his eyes on the $$  
WideRight : 10/14/2013 12:57 pm : link
He will make a big stink, draw lots of attention to his brand, then in some dramatic fashion reach a "compromise" which will include indemnity and allow a name and uniform change, from which he will profit exclusively.

He will make lots of $$. Everything will be OK.
Sgrcts  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 1:21 pm : link
not only do i disagree, but in fact, i would argue the exact opposite.

Daniel Snyder is a private owner of a private corporation. he can call his company and/or its team, pretty much anything he wants. the only legitimate "control" we, the people, have over that is the power of our purse. he could rename the team tomorrow the "Washington Wifebeaters" and there's not a damn thing we can do about it, other than to stop going to the games and stop buying the merchandise, etc. maybe we could write to our Congresspersons as well, but they have better shit to do, or so i would hope.

anything else, including grandstanding by Bob Costas or Rick Reilly, is simply noise from people who don't realize that their noise doesn't mean nearly as much as their money.

the alcoholism issue is very much a social, community issue, as you mentioned, but the community in question has already demonstrated an inability to handle it and address it effectively. in fact, the problem is quite clearly getting worse. in that situation, i would much prefer a national conversation about it because we actually can control, prevent, correct and address alcoholism in the Native American community, without having to beg our way home from a single person. there is no "Indian Chief" for terribly unfortunate lack of a better term, who is in charge of whether Native Americans drink alcohol.
..  
Ryan in Albany : 10/14/2013 1:53 pm : link
The Washington Bullets changed their name to the Wizards, and that ended gun violence in DC. Political correctness works!
Swing  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 1:56 pm : link
and a miss.
Why can't Native American communities  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 1:59 pm : link
solve their own drinking problems?
great question  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 2:01 pm : link
why can't African Americans solve the inner city gun violence question?

should we ignore it simply because they can't fix it?

while we're at it, why can't northeastern Americans solve the blithe straw man argument question?
Go ahead  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 2:02 pm : link
and feel free to solve everyone's self-inflicted problems. I won't stop you.
Now you guys want to take away their alcoholism?  
GiantFilthy : 10/14/2013 2:02 pm : link
Haven't we taken enough from these people?
hey, it's not me, man  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 2:05 pm : link
if i were on national television during halftime of the Sunday night game, all i'd talk about are horror movies and the New York Giants, two of my interest areas that happen to overlap quite a bit these days.

all i'm saying is, if Costas is going to really try to help Native Americans, his effort would be more useful if directed elsewhere.
M  
chris r : 10/14/2013 2:06 pm : link
That's a pretty good way to avoid clarifying and defending your position.
Are gun violence and Native American  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 2:07 pm : link
alcoholism really "self-inflicted" problems?
Radar...  
Chris in Philly : 10/14/2013 2:11 pm : link
Please attack the post, not the poster. Thank you for your cooperation.
Alcoholism  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 2:11 pm : link
isn't self-inflicted? I understand there's a genetic component but a) is that the dominant determinant and b) there's already infrastructure in place to deal with alcoholism and substance abuse so why not make use of those?
RB^2  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 2:16 pm : link
You are correct in everything you wrote, but I am hesitant to dismiss the problems of two groups of people whose cultures and families were shattered and who continue to face challenges as self-inflicted.

As an example, crime and violence can be directly linked to lack of economic opportunity and quality education, hardly something that can be handled at the community level completely.
chris r  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 2:16 pm : link
i read the site for a couple of years before i joined, so i'm well aware of your shtick. forgive me if i prefer not to contradict the contrarian.

but you do get an E for effort.
Rob  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 2:23 pm : link
Why is that true? Why can't people and communities solve their own problems? Those problems ultimately come down to choices. They're not natural disasters or outbreaks of disease where significant help from outside would really be needed.
Well, as a practical matter, its difficult  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 2:26 pm : link
for areas with no significant tax base to improve the quality of schools, for example. That isn't to say that the people in those comminities don't hold a great deal of responsibility for improving their own outcomes, but I think suggesting that everything is someone else's problem ignores a good bit of history.
Rob  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 2:30 pm : link
If what you say is true, Jews and Asians would still be impoverished second-class citizens in this country.
RE: Now you guys want to take away their alcoholism?  
G2 : 10/14/2013 2:31 pm : link
In comment 11278027 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
Haven't we taken enough from these people?


lol
RB^2  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 2:34 pm : link
Sure, we can leave it at that.
RB2  
M in CT : 10/14/2013 2:35 pm : link
if you look at my first post on the thread, at 12:24, i posited that it is very much the responsibility of Native Americans to fix their own problems, and that the team name issue was very much a distraction to them. but that's not to suggest that external efforts are useless or unwanted or ineffective.

what ensued was discussion about where Costas fits into that. he's promoting a national conversation about something which, on the national scale and in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter nearly as much as the 25% of Native Americans who die from chronic liver disease.
Rob  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 3:05 pm : link
That may be for the best. The idea that many people are just poor helpless victims of circumstance devoid of a meaningful say in their lives is a hard sell for me.
Agreed  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 3:07 pm : link
If I had written that, I would disagree as well.

Similarly I have a hard time creating a moral equivalency between two groups that haven't been enslaved or the target of genocide in this country with two that have.
Yeah, the Jews have had it pretty easy  
AnotherGiantsFan : 10/14/2013 3:12 pm : link
.
Yes, because  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 3:13 pm : link
I wrote that as well.

Is it that hard to actually argue against what people write, rather than what you think they said?
We all know the history  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 3:18 pm : link
Are you claiming that because of that, those people are incapable of making choices in today's world and need help?
No but it's easy to say that Jews weren't enslaved  
AnotherGiantsFan : 10/14/2013 3:20 pm : link
Because while correct, it suggests that Jews haven't been through hard times and had to prevail. Why does it matter that it didn't happen in this country? Jews seem to be doing okay in Germany today.
RE: Well, as a practical matter, its difficult  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 3:21 pm : link
In comment 11278084 Rob in NYC said:
Quote:
for areas with no significant tax base to improve the quality of schools, for example. That isn't to say that the people in those comminities don't hold a great deal of responsibility for improving their own outcomes, but I think suggesting that everything is someone else's problem ignores a good bit of history.


Astonishing that people can read the last part of a post and miss the words the directly precede it.
I suggested no such thing about the Jewish experience  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 3:25 pm : link
globally, and where things occur matters because the remnants of the institutions and cultural biases that made such things possible can often persist. For example, European (and German and Austrian) anti-semitism is much more virulent through today than in the U.S. (which isn't to say it doesn't exist).
Last post reads  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 3:26 pm : link
as if Germany and Austria are not part of Europe, apologies.
RB^2  
Ash : 10/14/2013 3:27 pm : link
quit with the Ayn Rand claptrap. It's beneath you.
What is it about today -  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 3:31 pm : link
Not 150 years ago - today, that makes it hard to avoid alcoholism, crime and generally being an unproductive member of society? I managed to without growing up in a gated WASP enclave and parents that teed everything up for me. Shocking, I know.

Anyway, I'm still curious, what is it about today's world that makes it impossible to lead at least an uneventful, nondescript life?
And so did  
Ash : 10/14/2013 3:33 pm : link
I RB. You also probably had the benefit of good upbringing.

Not everyone enjoys that benefit and it often makes a huge difference. One legislates according to the median person.
Let's see  
Rob in NYC : 10/14/2013 3:33 pm : link
you haven't read (or comprehended) any of my posts, repeatedly misstated my position (use of the word "impossible" in your last post).

Exactly what is my motivation to respond to you at this point?
Also  
Ash : 10/14/2013 3:34 pm : link
in the case of Native Americans, I'd suggest looking at their median socioeconomic stats. This is a group of people who are among the worst off in the entire country.
I suppose you'd like to be recognized as someone of superior quality  
Ash : 10/14/2013 3:35 pm : link
RB. I recognize that. You probably have more mental toughness, intelligence, and are generally more gifted than most people. Good for you. That still doesn't mean making policy assuming you to be the median case.
M  
Sgrcts : 10/14/2013 3:44 pm : link
I really don't even comprehend your point. Bob Costas should take the time during halftime of a football game to discuss how a community can attack its alcoholism, rather then how a football team can change its racism? Alcoholism is a bigger problem for the community sure, I just don't see how its in any way relevant to anything in this situation. Is the racism ok because alcoholism is an issue in their community?
Ash  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 3:46 pm : link
It was up and down and I'll leave it at that.

Maybe the answer is as simple as there are a lot of people who are just incapable of doing things that honestly seem very basic to me. If people want to "help" them, I don't see a reason to object. I just prefer to continue working with the other end of the human spectrum.
Fair enough.  
Ash : 10/14/2013 3:47 pm : link
You've got my respect.

That said, if I can't make the moral case for these people, surely the pragmatic case makes sense.
Ash  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 3:52 pm : link
Do you think many people exhaust all of their options before turning to policy? I don't know the answer to that question.
Is the redskindness  
Pitt G-man Dan : 10/14/2013 3:57 pm : link
from the alcohol abuse?
Rob  
RB^2 : 10/14/2013 4:04 pm : link
What if instead of impossible, I said unreasonably difficult or burdensome? I recognize I used a sloppy word, sorry. I don't like when others do it or when I do it. But is that really what we're discussing?

I can't be sure what motivates you to do anything but I suspect real intellectual curiosity is a strong possibility based on your overall history on BBI. I like reading your opinion and thought process even when we disagree. I don't want to get into a pissing match with you because I think that's time poorly spent. I think we fundamentally disagree on an issue and I'd be interested in knowing your thought process on this, not just your conclusions. If you don't feel like going into that, that's fine, too. Maybe we can do it another time or not at all.
Would the moderators consider  
lawguy9801 : 10/14/2013 4:06 pm : link
banning people who start Redskins name change threads? I don't know, but maybe we've beaten this topic to death?
CIP  
chris r : 10/14/2013 5:26 pm : link
Thanks for your concern but I didn't attack the poster, just his rhetorical approach.
This thread turned into a Goddamned borefest.......  
Ryan in Albany : 10/14/2013 5:29 pm : link
Zzzzz.......................
I agree with what Costas is saying...  
Dunedin81 : 10/14/2013 6:29 pm : link
but it's a fair point that nobody wants to tune in for a lecture.
Dunedin  
Sneakers O'toole : 10/14/2013 8:08 pm : link
for me that's exactly it. Leaving the preaching for the week, not gameday. All preaching, on any given subject.
I completely agree...  
Chris in Philly : 10/14/2013 9:06 pm : link
No preaching on Sundays! :)
Bob' s comments provoke thought and discussion  
Irish : 10/14/2013 9:09 pm : link
That's something this site, and this planet, could use a lot more of.
RE: SalTony  
SalTony56 : 10/15/2013 9:44 am : link
In comment 11277515 MadPlaid said:
Quote:
This has been an issue for many years (longer than 70) with protests and legal challenges. Only recently has it gained steam again. Try not being an obtuse cretin. This isn't an issue of the media's political agenda. It is an issue of an offensive racial slur mascarading as a team name.

MadPlaid thanks for the inacturate Lecture, try not being an arrogant JERK! if you are offended by the name why not give up watching football and watch something more your style like Ice skating or womens Volley Ball.
RE: Go ahead  
TheNeumann64 : 10/15/2013 10:08 am : link
In comment 11278026 RB^2 said:
Quote:
and feel free to solve everyone's self-inflicted problems. I won't stop you.


"Self-inflicted" with regards to Native American problems is a pretty hilarious statement. Obviously they have to take some responsibility in this day and age, but you can't possibly actually believe most N.A. problems can be reduced to "they should fix it themselves."
RE: RE: SalTony  
Kyle : 10/15/2013 10:20 am : link
In comment 11279180 SalTony56 said:
Quote:
MadPlaid thanks for the inacturate Lecture, try not being an arrogant JERK! if you are offended by the name why not give up watching football and watch something more your style like Ice skating or womens Volley Ball.


Haha, people who find a racial slur to be objectionable are really just weak women.

Double down!
RE: RE: SalTony  
MadPlaid : 10/15/2013 10:39 am : link
In comment 11279180 SalTony56 said:
Quote:
Quote:



MadPlaid thanks for the inacturate Lecture, try not being an arrogant JERK! if you are offended by the name why not give up watching football and watch something more your style like Ice skating or womens Volley Ball.


Wow, that's the best you can do? I apologize for calling you an obtuse cretin as that is an insult to obtuse cretins everywhere. I'm offended by racism, why aren't you?

By the way, don't knock women's volley ball. Have you seen the outfits they wear. Nice butts!
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