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What is wrong with Nicks?

George from PA : 10/14/2013 7:57 am
I was kind of shocked at the reactions to trading Nicks.

Sure, this is his contract year and he might walk but he is still our #1WR and certainly will be tough to replace. He is young, talented and proven. So I say try to sign him to a reasonable contract, but we need to understand why he has regressed before they commit long term to him.

He is having a tough season, like the rest of the Giants. Having uncharacteristic drops. Pulling up short on routes. Not exactly on same page with Eli. Attempting one handed grabs when not needed and running with the ball in one hand that can easily be knocked out. Over all production is down...We are all seeing it.

Some might even say that Cruz and Randle have been more productive and on the surface might be correct but that is not the whole story. Is the defense, shading Nicks which allows the others to be open? I do not have coaches tapes....to see the entire field but that was main reason for many of Cruz's bombs in the past. Either way, Nick is in a slump.

I he playing not to get hurt? Is there something else going on? Is there a riff between the players?

This needs to be understood before they do anything drastic, like start shipping out our stars and Nicks was one of the keys to our success.

He could be playing hurt  
Larry from WV : 10/14/2013 8:00 am : link
since he appears to always be hurt that is a pretty safe bet.
...  
adcliff : 10/14/2013 8:01 am : link
I think the consensus is that he is still young and talented, and maybe worth the money he wants. But the Giants can't afford to lock up the required cap space in three players.
I love nicks.....  
Italianju : 10/14/2013 8:05 am : link
but he is injury prone and we really cant lock in almost 20 million in WR's. If he wants to sign for around 8 mill or so then maybe you can afford him and cruz, but even then its a lot of money to lock up in WR's.
It was their plan before this season to sign both....  
George from PA : 10/14/2013 8:12 am : link
If anything, he has gotten cheaper.....but did we over rate him?

I hear clean the slate....but if we deplete all of our young talent.....that seems counter intuitive
Cost is the issue. If they really are not a serious contender for the  
Victor in CT : 10/14/2013 8:23 am : link
next 2-3 years than those $$ can be better spent elsewhere.
number 1 money  
eleven : 10/14/2013 8:25 am : link
Needs to be spent on Fitzgerald, green, and Megatron type players. Nicks was approaching that in 2011 but has fallen. He might be our number one but his hands and route running have been awful this year. Would rather trade him, develop Randle, sign Mario and maybe draft a beast at wide out in the next year or two.
Might just be me  
Rocky369 : 10/14/2013 8:28 am : link
but he appears to be nicked up.
Seems more mentally not in it  
nyynyg : 10/14/2013 8:42 am : link
Than injured from what I am seeing. He just doesn't seem checked in based on all things listed in this thread.
He's asking price has to habe fallen  
Paulie Walnuts : 10/14/2013 8:47 am : link
dramatically
plex carrued us in the playoffs with an 'ankle'  
alligatorpie : 10/14/2013 8:49 am : link
vs. nicks who got all botchy and moody as soon as he realized Cruz was better
I think guys have trouble playing in their contract year  
Essex : 10/14/2013 8:54 am : link
they have little incentive to extend themselves and risk injury. Look at Mike Wallace and Desean Jackson both had terrible contract years and both got paid big bucks. I would suggest that the reason they had down years in their contract years is that they do not want to get hurt. Nicks probably won't get 12-15 million which he could have if he kept the pace of 10-11, but he probably will get between 9-11, which he understandably will not want to jeopardize. Nobody wants to be Steven Smith or T2, get that injury right before you get paid.
Nicks...  
adcliff : 10/14/2013 8:54 am : link
is still 16th in the league in yardage but only him and Andre Johnson (8th) in the top 30 don't have a receiving TD.
Get the draft pick(s) for him now....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 10/14/2013 8:55 am : link
....and start blowing this whole thing up baby!
Not Steven  
Essex : 10/14/2013 8:57 am : link
Steve on my last post
The problem is that he is in a contract year  
UberAlias : 10/14/2013 8:58 am : link
For most people that means going out and having a huge season. For him it seems more like he feels the only thing he need to do is stay healthy so he just isn't putting it out on a line for the team.
I wouldn't say Cruz is better....different type of player.  
George from PA : 10/14/2013 8:59 am : link
On Denver, Is Wes better then D. Thomas?

Cruz is quicker but Nick should be more forceful.

Cruz needs separation and creates it...Nicks can catch balls in traffic...both typed needed and compliment each other in todays NFL.

If Nicks wasn't on field....2 would jam Cruz on line...like their doing to Gonzalez in Atlanta
First of all George  
mrvax : 10/14/2013 8:59 am : link
In reality, Victor Cruz is now this team's #1 receiver. Nicks/Randle seem to be about even for the #2 with an edge to Randle.

I suspect Nicks has a lingering injury also. On top of that, he's obviously not studying or practicing enough to be on the same page as Eli.

He's hurting his chances of a super-contract a bunch. Now is the time for him to show some team just how good he can be. If this is all he's got, well then his final payday will adjust accordingly.
your definition of #1 is different then mine....  
George from PA : 10/14/2013 9:04 am : link
Cruz is Eli's go to guy.....but I still view Nicks as the Giants #1 WR.

Welker is Peyton #1 WR? I suspect you would say yes. I don't. DT is Denver's #1 WR.
its amazing how people forget  
hitdog42 : 10/14/2013 9:06 am : link
the alligator arms from cruz at times over the middle last year.
the bi polar nature of people in how they view players is amazing
nicks is the LEAST of our worries this year. people harping on the 3rd INT of a game that we had already vomitted away as if he pulled up on a game winning slant pattern. good fcking lord.

if he is in the 8-9 range i would think we sign him... if he is above... i dont see it. I wouldnt trade him for less then a 2 and even then it would be a low end 2.
Nicks had 3 drops a game on average this year  
NYG007 : 10/14/2013 9:17 am : link
and it big spots.

I mean in the end zone vs. the Bears he had one hit right off both his hands, I mean I haven't seen those consistently since Joe Jeravicious struggled early on with us with Drops (The Raiders monsoon blowout, dropped 4 in that game, 2 were tds, etc)

Whatever is wrong with Nicks, we cant invest 12m when we need like 20 other guys

Before 2012 summer camp, Nicks had surgery to put screw in his  
baadbill : 10/14/2013 9:25 am : link
ankle - he went on to injure his knee and had the worst year of his career in 2012 - clearly not the same player - Nicks was quoted as saying he hurt his knee "because he was compensating to protect the right foot he fractured in May" (see attached link)

I'm not convinced Nicks is the same player - post ankle and knee surgeries - as he was in 2010 and 2011. Obviously I have no way of knowing his medical status, but I do know I've yet to see the same player I saw in 2011.
Link - ( New Window )
What you said.......plus.....  
Doomster : 10/14/2013 9:31 am : link
He is having a tough season, like the rest of the Giants. Having uncharacteristic drops. Pulling up short on routes. Not exactly on same page with Eli. Attempting one handed grabs when not needed and running with the ball in one hand that can easily be knocked out. Over all production is down...We are all seeing it.

It all started in the OTA's....he didn't show up...no communication why.....practice starts, he's walking around....preseason, he's out there to get his timing down with Eli, but how does that happen if you are not playing at full speed?

Season starts, everyone is waiting for Nicks to flip that switch, and start playing like a guy, who is playing for his first big contract....it didn't happen....more glaringly, was the effort against Carolina....

Is he hurt? If he is he will never say...why? It affects that next contract....he has to look like he is healthy out there all year.....he is not going to take a chance over the middle or on a quick slant if someone is going to lay him out...it's imperative that he stays healthy this season for that next contract....as I said in another post, health is more important than numbers.....the way the Giants, Eli, and this OL are playing, he can always say his numbers were down because of them, not him....

I think he also has an attitude problem, because they signed Cruz, and either they didn't make an offer to him, or if they did, it wasn't anywhere near what he wants....

The hard reality is, you can't invest 40M in just 3 players, and field a competitive team, at the expense of OLmen, Linebackers, CB's, Safeties, DE's, etc.....

Reese has learned the hard way, weapons mean nothing if holes for RB's are not opened, and if Eli does not have the time to utilize these weapons...
People keep saying this:  
Cam in MO : 10/14/2013 9:38 am : link
Quote:
Some might even say that Cruz and Randle have been more productive and on the surface might be correct but that is not the whole story. Is the defense, shading Nicks which allows the others to be open? I do not have coaches tapes....to see the entire field but that was main reason for many of Cruz's bombs in the past. Either way, Nick is in a slump.


But teams are giving safety help to the corner covering Cruz.

They are for the most part leaving Nicks in single coverage...and he isn't winning those battles.


Doomster.....  
BillKo : 10/14/2013 9:40 am : link
I believe Eli will have some sort of contract re-worked next year.

He shouldn't be making $20 mil/year after his last two seasons.

I'm his biggest fan, but for the good of the team (and his own good) he'll need to take a cut.

That could be a huge factor in resigning Nicks.

...  
adcliff : 10/14/2013 9:45 am : link
Better to evaluate him against Cruz as they're in the same offense.
Cruz is 5th in the league with 541 YDS and 4 TD's. Cruz's contract is 5 years, $43M.
2013: Base salary: $630,000.00. Cap number: $2.53 million
2014: Base salary: $3,999,000.00. Cap number: $7.424 million
2015: Base salary: $6,150,000.00. Cap number: $8.125 million
2016: Base salary: $7,900,000.00. Cap number: $9.9 million
2017: Base salary: $7,400,000.00. Cap number: $9.4 million
2018: Base salary: $8,400,000.00. Cap number: $8.5 million

Nicks should not expect a contract anywhere near the Cruz contract, based on recent performances.
The sad thruth neither Cruz nor Nicks are having success breaking  
George from PA : 10/14/2013 9:55 am : link
double teams....

There are very few WR..that can still dominate with double team....Hell, last year Megatron was getting triple teamed.

and I guess...at the end of the day....that is the problem with Nicks.

a #1 WR who demands big bucks....needs to be successful even when double teamed.
BillKo  
Doomster : 10/14/2013 10:23 am : link
I asked in another thread, would Eli be willing to take an extension/renegotiate a deal that Brady did, for the good of the team?
IMO he can't stay healthy enough  
steve in ky : 10/14/2013 10:28 am : link
for the Giants to risk making him one of the highest paid WR's, which is likely what he will be looking for. I would love for him to stay but I doubt he would accept a low offer from the Giants instead of pursuing free agency.
You know whats wrong with Nicks  
Blue Blood : 10/14/2013 10:33 am : link
OL line sucks.. no running game.. and a QB who is currently erratic.. and a fan base that WAAAAAAAAAAAY overestimated him as some #1 Elite WR which he is not and never was..

Nicks is good.. and has times when he is very good..

Why isnt Nicks having a good year..

because the Giants suck this year..



Nicks  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/14/2013 10:52 am : link
wanted to have a monster season to get a big contract but our offensive line is so bad that our passing game has turned to complete shit-- so Nicks has to be bothered by that. Unfortunately, he's not making lemonade and is instead letting his frustration seep into his on-field performance.

I am not "turning" on Nicks. I blame him for messing up when it is his fault but I still think he's the best receiver on the GIants. My problem is the idea of spending $40mm per season on your "HOF" QB and two wide receivers when there are so many problems on the offensive line (and defense). The Giants are showing this season that it doesn't matter who the QB and WRs are if the O-Line can't do anything in the run or pass game.
The only issue with Nicks is he is going to want more money  
PatersonPlank : 10/14/2013 10:53 am : link
than Cruz, or at worst case the same. We can't afford to sink that cash in WR, we need to put it into C/G or LB.
$  
Big Blue '56 : 10/14/2013 10:59 am : link
.
He  
PaulN : 10/14/2013 11:01 am : link
Is more worried about getting hurt then performing, time to say good bye, good to know you, he will go to the Panthers I believe.
We can win  
PaulN : 10/14/2013 11:03 am : link
2-3 games without him just as easy, goodbye. We need to get this teams salary structure back to where it belongs, we are no longer a Super Bowl team, in fact we are not even a competitive team, so who deserves all this money, even Eli needs to take a salary cut.
its  
Danny L : 10/14/2013 11:06 am : link
amazing how people forget how ineffective Cruz was last yr when Nicks was out.
It  
NJGiantFan84 : 10/14/2013 11:15 am : link
all depends on the price tag. If the value is there, he'll be back. If it is not, he will walk.

our salary cap next year...looks pretty good. With the understanding,  
George from PA : 10/14/2013 11:18 am : link
That Tuck, Webster, Diehl, Snee and other highly paid players will be either off contract or cut.

Granted....we only will have 20 or so players signed.

Ineffective?  
Doomster : 10/14/2013 11:35 am : link
its
Danny L : 11:06 am : link : reply
amazing how people forget how ineffective Cruz was last yr when Nicks was out.


He was ineffective? His numbers were down from the year before, but ineffective?

Also, his numbers were down, because Nicks was out there, and he probably shouldn't have been...

Also, Cruz was in a contract year...there was that pressure....how is Nicks doing in his contract year? See the Carolina game?
umm comments like  
hitdog42 : 10/14/2013 11:41 am : link
"see the carolina game"... oh when we couldnt even get a pass off? and he had zero targets?
just beyond stupid.
he does have a dislocated finger  
cheeseburger : 10/14/2013 11:54 am : link
just sayin
Zero targets?  
Doomster : 10/14/2013 11:54 am : link
You don't see a reason for that? We did throw the ball didn't we? Take your foot out of your mouth...
we had like 20 attempts... 7 sacks...  
hitdog42 : 10/14/2013 11:57 am : link
and many of the "attempts" were cut short by no time.
i dont know what game you watched... but taht game had NOTHING to do with WRs... get a clue.
Imo, he has a feeling Giants aren't signing him  
#10* : 10/14/2013 12:12 pm : link
and he's playing not to get hurt which is understandable. Starting to think though that Giants priority should be to get a 2nd & 5th for him outright asap. We need to replace the Oline. And we can draft a cheaper replacement for Nicks.
The Nicks situation is really quite simple...  
M.S. : 10/14/2013 12:24 pm : link
(1) Take a roster with several holes in it;
(2) Take a roster that has two very good receivers in Cruz and Randall;
(3) Take a roster that has a lot of money tied up in Cruz;
(4) Take a roster that is hitting the cap ceiling practically every day;
(5) Take a roster that cannot afford to pay a soon-to-be free agent, Nicks, the kind of money devoted to Cruz...

...and you have the situation the Giants find themselves in today. Get as much as they can for Nicks and move on.

Depend upon it... they cannot and will not pay Nicks the kind of money he will get from a team like Carolina.


What MS said  
sjh50 : 10/14/2013 12:48 pm : link
Hits it on the head.

If Nicks was the player he was in 2010-2011, I'd think about locking up $20mm on WRs. But this year he has yet to prove to me he has the same burst/speed after the injuries - perhaps he's just rounding into shape and it will come, but to pay him that money I'd need to see it first.

As mentioned as well, he's not getting safety help on his side of the field as consistently as previously - and has yet to make other teams pay for. If he's not attracting double teams and can't sometimes beat them, he's not worth 1 money.
he looks like he is playing  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 10/14/2013 1:04 pm : link
not to get hurt... Another big injury and there goes his big deal. So we see flashes....he also appears to not want to be here, but thats just my opinion.
eli ....  
taterbug : 10/14/2013 1:29 pm : link
Nicks' problem is Eli. He can't throw it to himself
His change of direction  
RAIN : 10/14/2013 2:31 pm : link
has suffered. He has a hitch in his step that seems to be more about the knee than the foot. This doesn't seem to sound like something that is long term.. he could round into shape. We'll see what he's moving like three weeks from now. At this point he should be starting to show better burst laterally. That is his calling card. The change of pace and change of direction isn't where it was, causing less separation and more challenged balls being thrown his way. This may net us a discount in the long term.
Why do you think he doesn't want to be here?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/14/2013 2:34 pm : link
I think he'll be quite happy wherever he gets paid to go.

You rarely ever hear about Nicks saying anything.
The Giants have to try to keeps Nicks  
eightshamrocks : 10/14/2013 2:52 pm : link
Because if you think the offense looks bad now, imagine next season minus Nicks-it will be atrocious. Randle looks like he will be a good player but he is no Nicks, in my opinion. The Giants have not done a good enough job of getting Nicks involved this season. Of course, Nicks needs to lose the alligator arms at times as well, but he will. I say franchise him and bring him back. The Giants need him-he is the #1 receiver.
On what planet is Hakeem Nicks our #1 WR?  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/14/2013 3:04 pm : link
At this point, the gap between Cruz and Nicks isn't really close (look at the production the last 3 years).
Cruz isn't an outside receiver  
eightshamrocks : 10/14/2013 3:24 pm : link
Slot receiver are not #1 receivers, no matter how good they are. Nicks must be retained.
Ten, because its just  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 10/15/2013 7:02 am : link
what I see ...like I said my opinion....plus we've heard how he wants to go home to Carolina to play...

Nicks always went out for balls... now he is shortarming, not finishing routes, and looking like a lazt player out there.
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