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Why do fans want Fewell gone?

mrvax : 10/17/2013 9:05 am
It seems like no one who wants Fewell fired pays any attention to the basically crappy group of players he was dealt to work with.

Specifically, this defense's strong point was to rush the passer. Well for 2 years running, the front 4 cannot get to the passer. They are not good enough for whatever reason. There goes your defense.

Send a blitz! Right? Name a LB or D-back that can actually get there with any consistency? They don't have any.

With a crappy pass rush and perhaps the worst collection of linebackers in the NFL, no defensive coordinator can succeed at his job. "Changing things up" or whatever isn't going to negate the horrific time of possession mismatch the defense sees weekly.

IMO, a coach should be afforded at least "average" players to game plan with before you fire him. Simply replacing Fewell with some other guy and not addressing the talent level (the real problem) solves nothing.



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I  
Pascal4554 : 10/17/2013 2:04 pm : link
think Fewell is an average DC. The defense has played okay this year all considered. I don't think we will ever have a great defense under Fewell even with better personnel. We will be okay at best.

You can't just sit back and always expect our front four to get to the quarterback. I think teams figured out how to play against our front 4 last year with max protections schemes even when the defensive ends were playing at a higher level. As others have pointed out much better then I could - Fewell is not able to get people free when he blitzes even some of the time. Even with average personnel should our blitzes get home AT SOME POINT?

Under normal circumstances I would be on the side of people defending him, but sitting 0-6 right now I don't have the motivation. I'm ready for a change if we find a good replacement. Who that is? I don't have the expertise to judge candidates.

I don't want to replace him just to replace him. And I don't see any point in replacing him for a guy who is going to run a similar system.
there is no DC out there that can make  
Hades07 : 10/17/2013 2:11 pm : link
this a top D with the talent currently on the roster. The talent issue is the biggest issue with the D. That said, Fe well should be replaced because he isn't very good. Will the next guy be better? I can't say, but even if you give Fewell better players I don't think he would provide a top tier defense.
I think reversing the question might yield better discusssion.  
dangerousrappingfrog : 10/17/2013 2:16 pm : link
What has Fewell done that makes him deserving to stay?

Many like to point being in the middle of the pack for points allowed as something to hang our hat on. It isn't, not when you have played in a division that basically had shitty offenses the last few years. Ried's O in its death throws with either a concussed/hurt Vick or a journey man QB. Wash may as well as not had an offense for years. They were terrible until they got RGIII. Dallas was up and down, but by far the best of those 3. Factor in some hostile weather in late in the season in the Meadowlands...

Honest question, outside of a 6 game stretch in 2011, how many times has this def impressed you? How many memorable performance can you think of?
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arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 2:26 pm : link
Green Bay last season. Sacking Cutler like 20 times in 2010. San Fran last season. Holding Dallas to just 14 points on New Years Day last year en route to winning the division. Holding the Pats to 20 at Foxboro and being the first team to beat them there in a billion years back in 2011....
If there is one change I could see happening  
HomerJones45 : 10/17/2013 2:27 pm : link
it is replacing Fewell with Spagnuolo.

As Coughlin mentioned in his PC, "Some of our pressure packages were not getting home with the kind of speed and timing that we need, so its a combination of things."

I do think that is one thing we had with Spagnuolo that we do not have with Fewell. It seems like something is off in the design of those packages. You don't need an all-Pro to blitz the qb.
Arc, so a handful of games. Know answer the reverse. How many  
dangerousrappingfrog : 10/17/2013 2:41 pm : link
times has the def been memorably terrible? Too many to count, you can pick more than a handful in any given season he has been here. Far too many, historically too many. That is how bad it has been. Hell, what like 3 or 4 in a row at the end the season last yr?

It's largely famine with a small meal far too infrequently.

In may of the games you mentioned, we got a lot of turnovers. Rarely will our def perform with out the benefit of turnovers. The system relies on them too much and turnover are neither reliable nor consistent.
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arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 2:50 pm : link
There have been plenty of bad ones too but I think the majority were somewhere in between.

If we move on from Fewell, we move on.. I just think it's way more important to get the personnel straight and get guys who can stay on the field. And it would also help if the offense wasn't turning the football over twice as much as any other team in the league. The turnover numbers right now are staggering. We're on pace to give the ball away well over 50 times in 16 games. Probably around 60. I don't have time to go back and look but I can't imagine many teams have turned the ball over that many times.. ever.
arc  
GMANinDC : 10/17/2013 2:54 pm : link
The problem your running into is

No one want to put blame on the offense because they don't want to blame Eli. That part of the equation (the numerous turnovers the last 2 years) is being overlooked because that would bring the spotlight on the offense it self (TC, Gilbride, and Eli). It's easier to look at the defense and wishing for the days of 2007..
I want Fewell gone because the defense is both conservative AND  
BeerFridge : 10/17/2013 2:57 pm : link
prone to giving up big plays. It's a terrible combination. It has been so consistently and that tells me that he's not the guy.
I agree that the personnel is also to blame. Plenty of blame to go  
dangerousrappingfrog : 10/17/2013 3:01 pm : link
around. I am ready for a fresh start at this point with both coaching and many of the old highly paid vets on this team. Fewell does not deserve all the blame but I also don't believe in him. Even if we had better personnel, I don't think he gets it done. I could be wrong and I will probably never know the answer to the question.

Our team is so depressing right now. All the turnovers leave a bad taste in our mouths. This is the toughest time as a fan I have faced.

I am praying that we can get a win on Monday against Minn.
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arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 3:36 pm : link
I think we will win Monday night. I really do. Hopefully I'm right. We just need something to feel a little good about right now.

I know, people will say "no! that's bad! We need the best draft pick possible" but I can't root against the Giants in Week freaking 7. Just can't.

And GMAN.. yeah, I think that definitely has something to do with it. I love Eli and will find every possible way to defend him but obviously he's made some bad decisions this year. I do feel like Gilbride and the offensive system is a much bigger problem than Fewell and his system, though. We have shitty personnel defensively. It's understandable that we'd have shitty results. There's no reason why a 2 time Super Bowl MVP with guys like Cruz and Nicks at WR should be playing like this, though. I know some weeks the OL didn't even give us a chance but they haven't been as bad these last 2 weeks and we still gave the ball away like it was candy. It has to stop.
Hell no,  
AnishPatel : 10/17/2013 4:56 pm : link
Blame the offense as well. They have been utter shit this year. And blame Eli , the WRs and the system/ Gilbride for it. Its a boom or busy system with no margin for error.

Still the total offense during Gilbride s tenure has been good. Last year she saw slippage and ended up 14th overall. I shutter think what the overall ranking will be this year.

Hey, I am all for changes on. both sides of the ball. Clean it all out and a lot of players needed to be let go too.
Spags is a great guy  
bignygfan : 10/17/2013 5:35 pm : link
First off, the best nickname any Giants coach has ever had. That's not debatable!

Second, he led us to a Super Bowl!

Third, Fewell is an idiot! His game plan calls for us NOT to sack the QB except for the four games we won in the playoffs two years ago.

Fourth, say it with me now ... SPAGS!
Anish -  
mrvax : 10/17/2013 6:16 pm : link
I like blitzing and I believe the players on defense enjoy it also. It's aggressive. We just don't have guys who can actually get near the QB on a blitz. It's freegin' terrible.

A player with the speed of Williams or Rivers should be able to whack that QB! But they can't.
mrvax  
Matt M. : 10/17/2013 6:17 pm : link
Have you ever considered that the talented DL can't get any pressure because of the scheme? The same goes for virtually every blitz? This team may be lacking at certain positions, but it is not devoid of talent. I would say the overall talent level on our D when healthy is at least average. Yet, under Fewell we are among the bottom 5 in defense. Fewell's D sucks. Plain and simple.
Matt..  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 6:34 pm : link
That's a ridiculously stupid argument unless you believe that Fewell changed the "scheme".

Why were the Giants 5th in sacks in 2010 and 3rd in sacks in 2011 if Fewell's scheme sucks so bad and prevents us from getting them.

The players are the variable. The scheme is the constant. Figure it out.
Spags is a great guy?  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/17/2013 6:35 pm : link
I think some people in St Louis would disagree with you. Look into the incident where he fired an equipment manager who was with the team since before color TV was invented. Look into WHY
mrvax  
AnishPatel : 10/17/2013 6:46 pm : link
That doesn't mean we shouldn't blitz. That's up to Fewell to have to be even more creative to find ways to beat the pass protection. You see he rarely blitzes and when we do we are god awful at it because it lacks any creativity. Its painful to watch guys try and get absorbed by the their OL.
the guys never comes up with anything  
giantranger : 10/17/2013 8:17 pm : link
ok so the talent isn't the best. Do we see this defense doing anything spectacular? They do have about the deepest set of DT's the league has to offer. You think he could use that to his advantage and tie up some linemen to free up a safety or DB with enough speed to get to the qb. He has no imagination. They do nothing well at all.
RE: Spags is a great guy?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/17/2013 8:21 pm : link
In comment 11284156 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said:
Quote:
I think some people in St Louis would disagree with you. Look into the incident where he fired an equipment manager who was with the team since before color TV was invented. Look into WHY


Is that really enough to say he's not a good guy? I mean his record is pretty spotless. That would be like claiming that Eli is a spoiled brat because he refused to play for San Diego.
RE: the guys never comes up with anything  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 8:24 pm : link
In comment 11284262 giantranger said:
Quote:
ok so the talent isn't the best. Do we see this defense doing anything spectacular? They do have about the deepest set of DT's the league has to offer. You think he could use that to his advantage and tie up some linemen to free up a safety or DB with enough speed to get to the qb. He has no imagination. They do nothing well at all.


They're 13th in YPC against.. .I'd say they're stopping the run pretty well considering that only 1 team in the league has had more rushing plays run against them.
RE: Anish -  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/17/2013 9:23 pm : link
In comment 11284105 mrvax said:
Quote:
I like blitzing and I believe the players on defense enjoy it also. It's aggressive. We just don't have guys who can actually get near the QB on a blitz. It's freegin' terrible.

A player with the speed of Williams or Rivers should be able to whack that QB! But they can't.


Add Paysinger to that list.

Oh the pain...



Where is he running to?
Wow, the Bears one is awful.  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 9:29 pm : link
I never saw a replay of that. Where the fuck was he trying to go? The gap was right in front of him and just ran right out of the play for no reason.
Anish.  
dangerousrappingfrog : 10/17/2013 10:08 pm : link
Fuck it, I will. Spags. He was creative with the blitz.

Bring it on, it can't be worse.

Those clips are sadly hilarious even in my angst.
Looking at it again.. the only rational conclusion I can jump to..  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 10:12 pm : link
Is that either Kiwanuka was supposed to stunt inside there or Paysinger thought he was going to.

Someone fucked up. I'm just not sure which guy. Based on what we've seen so far, it was probably Paysinger. Paysinger was probably supposed to hit that gap.
Maybe Spags isn't a great guy  
bignygfan : 10/17/2013 10:22 pm : link
But he is a genius!

Think about the confidence Eli could get back going up against him in practice!
BBC  
GMANinDC : 10/18/2013 8:23 am : link
Thanks for that video..That has been my contention with the blitzes. Fewell calls up the scheme but the players are not instinctive enough to know how to get to the QB or the RB..This was the same issue in the Denver game when someone posted the video of the two TD runs by Moreno. The LB'ers have no clue how to stop it and the DE's (Kiwi) got lost in the was, both times..

In ancient times there was Alexander The Great  
ghost718 : 10/18/2013 9:47 am : link
Now in 2013,we have Perry The Confused

If you see Spencer Paysinger running towards the locker room,don't panic,it's just a Giants blitz.
If Fewell gets cut  
mrvax : 10/18/2013 10:29 am : link
in the (hopefully) housecleaning that comes at seasons end, we could do worse than bringing back Spags.

I'm not sure who is available. I don't really want a geriatric patient here either.

RE: BBC  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/18/2013 11:34 am : link
In comment 11284610 GMANinDC said:
Quote:
Thanks for that video..That has been my contention with the blitzes. Fewell calls up the scheme but the players are not instinctive enough to know how to get to the QB or the RB..This was the same issue in the Denver game when someone posted the video of the two TD runs by Moreno. The LB'ers have no clue how to stop it and the DE's (Kiwi) got lost in the was, both times..


And that's the thing.

So folks want to blame Fewell for his blitzes, schemes and not putting his players in position. But surely he didn't expect the player (in this case, Paysinger) to:

1. Run into the back of the lineman. (Carolina game)

2. Running to nothing. (Chicago game)

3. Have the players miscommunicate the play. (Chicago game)

Here were the Denver TD's you referenced.



The season tape of Kiwanuka is not looking good.
The Chicago play is a joke  
ghost718 : 10/18/2013 11:46 am : link
That's just not a well designed play.Even if executed perfectly,look at when Cutler gets rid of the ball.
Last time the defensive ends performed this poorly  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/18/2013 11:53 am : link
they fired Mike Waufle.
That chicago play looks like a line stunt  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/18/2013 11:56 am : link
just poorly executed.
Paysinger cold have easily disrupted that play...  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2013 11:58 am : link
...if he took on Forte and hit that gap. It also may have worked if Kiwi actually stunted when/if he was supposed to.

One of those players fucked up and it wound up taking them both entirely out of the play.
He's not supposed to take on Forte  
ghost718 : 10/18/2013 12:07 pm : link
I thought that much was obvious
If people would actually look at the plays  
GMANinDC : 10/18/2013 12:09 pm : link
one by one instead of in a vacuum, you would see that players are out of position a lot of the times..or do not have instincts to know which gap to hit..

Now if that's the "communications problems", people are referring too, then that's some BS..
Yes.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2013 12:12 pm : link
Because clearly I meant that he was supposed to get intentionally blocked by Forte.
GMAN,  
Randy in CT : 10/18/2013 12:50 pm : link
if you are continually seeing Giants players out of place, is there a chance that their coaching is bad?
I think we have  
AnishPatel : 10/18/2013 12:54 pm : link
good pro and con list of people on Fewell. However, at the end of the day, using a phrase from Rolle, Fewell won't be extended. This way he doesn't get fired either. We just simply chose not to extend him.

I believe that's how this will all play out.
Chicago  
AnishPatel : 10/18/2013 12:58 pm : link
play wasn't a stunt. We ran this play against the Panthers. The LB takes out the LT, allowing the DE to rush in. We had a LB ear hole the RT I think it was for the Panthers. It was actually great to see.
Randy  
GMANinDC : 10/18/2013 1:20 pm : link
They are out of position because the aer blitzing the wrong way..watch the video clips..You can clearly see that the Paysinger and Kiwi not knowing where the ball is or how to get to the ball carrier..Coaching can't fix that. They just aren't that good..
Anish  
GMANinDC : 10/18/2013 1:43 pm : link
I'm not pro Fewell..What i am putting out there is that we have bad personnel on the field..That's the problem..Kiwi is not a LB or a good DE at this point (I never thought he was that good from the start)..They have Paysinger and J Williams starting when they should be backups or 3rd stringers. Tuck has been invisible the last 2 years and JPP is not producing..

What results can anyone be looking for with that type of production?
I wonder if Paysinger could be viable as an OLB  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/18/2013 1:47 pm : link
He's certainly not a middle, but perhaps Beason stabilizes things.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2013 1:47 pm : link
Anish.. where's the DT supposed to get in on that play, though? It seems like you'd want him to stunt inside where there's a gap and a quicker path to the QB rather than go all the way around and take himself out of the play like he did.

I'd be curious to see how it worked against Carolina when it was run properly. Whatever happened on the play in Chicago just looked completely wrong.
RE: Anish  
AnishPatel : 10/18/2013 1:56 pm : link
In comment 11285289 GMANinDC said:
Quote:
I'm not pro Fewell..What i am putting out there is that we have bad personnel on the field..That's the problem..Kiwi is not a LB or a good DE at this point (I never thought he was that good from the start)..They have Paysinger and J Williams starting when they should be backups or 3rd stringers. Tuck has been invisible the last 2 years and JPP is not producing..

What results can anyone be looking for with that type of production?



GMAN I am just saying in general. Some maybe fans some aren't. I am not a fan of his. I am just saying if things go like this he won't be extended. His contract will expire and bye bye fewell. Next season of American Coordinator, we will have our 5th DC in the TC era!

RE: .  
AnishPatel : 10/18/2013 1:59 pm : link
In comment 11285300 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Anish.. where's the DT supposed to get in on that play, though? It seems like you'd want him to stunt inside where there's a gap and a quicker path to the QB rather than go all the way around and take himself out of the play like he did.

I'd be curious to see how it worked against Carolina when it was run properly. Whatever happened on the play in Chicago just looked completely wrong.


From the panthers game the DE stops, and the Tackle gets earholed and then the DE or DT rushes in. It worked well I must say.

That was creative, I never seen that in football where the LB takes out the tackle so that the DE can rush in. It worked well and the DE got a hit on the QB. I liked that a lot. It was fun seeing the OT get owned like that.

The Bears game play the LT drifts because the RE takes a wide approach, which mans now the LB has more ground to cover. So by the time the play works, the QB would have gotten rid of the ball more times than not.

I think that was creative by Fewell.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2013 2:03 pm : link
A-ha. Thanks. I wasn't sure what the hell either players responsibility was in that .gif up there because it just looked like it totally went south from the get.
It was really cool to  
AnishPatel : 10/18/2013 2:16 pm : link
see. I never seen that ever. It's almost as if you're playing another position. In this case it was the OT. So the OT is watching the DE and kick stepping back. He doesn't think or ever believe a LB is blitzing him. The DE makes a move and waits until the LB just takes the OT out, allowing the DE to rush and hit the QB.

That's what is supposed to happen. It worked against the Panthers where we hit the QB. We didn't get the sack, but it was fun to see the OT get knocked to the side.

At this point try anything. If the DEs can't win 1 on 1 then use the Lbs to take out the OTs! LOL. That's one props to Fewell for trying. It's actually fun to see.
Anish  
GMANinDC : 10/18/2013 2:33 pm : link
I hope along with a new DC comes 2 new DE's, 3 new LB's and another CB..And a new OC..
2 new DEs.  
AnishPatel : 10/18/2013 5:08 pm : link
How many DEs will we need? What do we do with Kiwi and Tuck? I am all for cutting ties with Tuck. He was useless last year and is useless this year. A new CB is important and a safety we can use. I like Beason and Spencer P. JW can't stay healthy. We have a lot of holes on both sides.

A new DC and OC can help a lot.
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