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Why do fans want Fewell gone?

mrvax : 10/17/2013 9:05 am
It seems like no one who wants Fewell fired pays any attention to the basically crappy group of players he was dealt to work with.

Specifically, this defense's strong point was to rush the passer. Well for 2 years running, the front 4 cannot get to the passer. They are not good enough for whatever reason. There goes your defense.

Send a blitz! Right? Name a LB or D-back that can actually get there with any consistency? They don't have any.

With a crappy pass rush and perhaps the worst collection of linebackers in the NFL, no defensive coordinator can succeed at his job. "Changing things up" or whatever isn't going to negate the horrific time of possession mismatch the defense sees weekly.

IMO, a coach should be afforded at least "average" players to game plan with before you fire him. Simply replacing Fewell with some other guy and not addressing the talent level (the real problem) solves nothing.



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I don't think he's the root of the problem  
jcn56 : 10/17/2013 9:06 am : link
I don't want him to stay because I think we can do better. But I agree with your general premise, that you're getting a lot of 'Fire Fewell!' posts when in fact he's just an average coach with below average talent (in general) getting slightly below average results.
I agree jcn  
mrvax : 10/17/2013 9:10 am : link
I don't think he's great either. I'm thinking that if the Giants do make a lot of changes in the off season, they might want to keep Fewell and a few minor coaches around for a year or so for continuity.
I just think he is a pretty bad coach.....  
Italianju : 10/17/2013 9:13 am : link
from schemes to adjustments. Im not blind enough to be putting a 100% of the blame on him, but i think he deserves a lot of it. And i agree that i just think we can easily do better.
Eh, continuity is a good thing when you're OK at something  
jcn56 : 10/17/2013 9:13 am : link
or if you find yourself changing too often. If Fewell was in his first year, maybe.

I don't think Fewell qualifies as good enough to keep around for continuity's sake. At this point, I would rather see an overhaul of the coaching staff all the way around to see if change helps cure some of the malaise that's fallen the past couple of seasons.
Fewell ran mediocre-to-bad defenses in Buffalo  
Greg from LI : 10/17/2013 9:16 am : link
He's run mediocre-to-bad defenses here. They can do better.
I think he is in over his head.  
chitt17 : 10/17/2013 9:17 am : link
No creativity.
Here's why I think Fewell has underperformed  
mattlawson : 10/17/2013 9:17 am : link
say what you want about front 4 needing to win, but our blitzs do not get home. when you bring more than 4 in this system you had better get a free blitzer. his rushers are completely swallowed up by the defense. that has not changed. I saw one free rusher all last game. one.

Whether or not we have the personnel to run man more than they do, teams shred us with their TE. We have not had an answer for that in years.

The defense gives up it the offense doesn't perform. I think that is an identity problem and should be addressed by the coaching staff if veterans are not leading vocally or by example. our defensive leaders have STUNK this season, and Fewell hasn't had the gumption to use our DLine depth to try and solve that problem. Using Jenkins instead of Tuck for example and relying on one of our amazing DT's to get the push.

Our run D has been very good this year. They've done a good job with that, but who is that on? I'll give Reese credit for addressing it in the offseason, and just having better personnel at DT.
Because he sux.  
Randy in CT : 10/17/2013 9:19 am : link
Stupid.
Well, I completely  
nygsb42 : 10/17/2013 9:22 am : link
agree with jcn. And as a whole fans are quick to fire him!, Cut HIM! when things are bad. The general public always wants a scapegoat.
Because they think he's the reason the defense is so soft  
nomad1986 : 10/17/2013 9:24 am : link
and passive. But he's not he's just doing what he's told to do. No different than Lewis or Sheridan. Spagnuolo brought Jim Johnson's defense with him and while he didn't have free reign he had enough leeway to play a much more aggressive style. He had somewhat better players but the 2007/2008 Giants defense wasn't exactly filled with All Pro's either. He ran a different style. See Corey Webster under Lewsi & Sheridan vs under Spagnuolo. Tom Coughlin has always had a problem with defense. He had 4 DC's in his last 4 years in Jacksonville and Perry Fewell was his DB coach in Jacksonville. He was doing what he told then and it didn't work he's doing what he's told now and it doesn't work.
he brings nothing fresh to the table...  
GMAN4LIFE : 10/17/2013 9:26 am : link
we need a change
How much input  
Bill in UT : 10/17/2013 9:26 am : link
does he have as far as personnel? I don't know how the Giants run things. Does he have a say on draft day, or about free agents? If he has no say in personnel, I guess you have to blame the FO/HC more. But I'm sure he has a say in who gets playing time.
because his schemes stink. and his defense has adequate at best since  
Victor in CT : 10/17/2013 9:28 am : link
he has been here? The d line rose up for that glorious 6 week stretch in 2011. Other than that he has employed soft defenses that can't get a stop when it counts. 4 years is long enough.

That said, the D has been serviceable this year. If the O wasn't such a mess they would be 3-3.
he is average  
eleven : 10/17/2013 9:32 am : link
But I think the Giants organization needs to stop with the 'he did ok' or 'its passable' or 'not that bad' type attitude in regards to our defense. There are coordinators out there who change the culture into a lockdown culture overnight. Carroll, Sutton, and Williams for example transform attitudes immediately. I keep hearing 'our de played well and only gave up 21 to the bears'. That is not the hallmark of a great defense. When Simms would throw picks it wasn't a big deal because the Dee stopped the drive in its tracks. We give our Dee a pass now when they give up points. Awful mindset. It starts with Tom but man I would love a coordinator who was out for blood. No bend not break garbage.
Think Fewell  
TMS : 10/17/2013 9:33 am : link
is very limited as a defensive planner and innovator. He learned from Dick Juaron in Buffalo who was a defensive guy himself. All he knows he one defense and his skill set is that of a position coach exclusively. He has a good report with the players that is why Coughlin hired him after the Sheridan nightmare. He might do all right as a HC with the right cooridinators for that reason. We need a defensively innovative DC or HC like Spagnuolo to get the most out of these players.
Not just bad, but historically bad defenses  
mikeinbloomfield : 10/17/2013 9:33 am : link
Even in 2011, his defense during the regular season was worse than average. Thank god for Eli, and being able to sneak in at 9-7.

And I'm sorry, but the players are not the problem. Do you really think he has had below average players his whole time here? His schemes are uncreative, and for some reason offenses don't have problems with his blitzes. I can't remember the last time someone came entirely free at the opposing QB. Sure does happen to us a lot though.
tc, fewell and gilbride  
aquidneck : 10/17/2013 9:39 am : link
sink or swim together. I want them all gone (or in the event they go on a miraculous 9 or 10 game win steak) all back.
The Giants defense the last 3 seasons  
Jay on the Island : 10/17/2013 9:40 am : link
has been ranked 30th or lower. Also it always seems that the defense can never get an important stop when needed. Look at 2011 we won so many games late in the fourth due to Eli's heroics which was often needed due to the defense blowing the lead.

Fewell is very poor at making adjustments and he doesn't build his scheme around his players strengths. He expects his players to fit into his scheme which is exactly what Tim Lewis did.
I don't care if we look elsewhere.  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 9:42 am : link
But for fucks sake. Let the "Spags would have gotten the most out of his players and Fewell doesn't" nonsense go already.

If St. Steven was so amazing at getting the most out of his players, why was his Saints defense historically bad last year? Why has he gone from HC to DC to "consultant" since leaving here? Stop treating the guy like some freaking defensive genius. He's not.
"It seems the defense can never get an important stop when needed"  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 9:44 am : link
Except for the fact they've done it multiple times this year and the offense has failed to capitalize.
8 sacks in the last 11 games.  
Bogey : 10/17/2013 9:44 am : link
.
I didn't read the whole thread but we have not been able to blitz  
dangerousrappingfrog : 10/17/2013 9:46 am : link
effectively in all the time he has been here. I watch as many NFL games as I can every week and every team, regardless of what kind of talent they have can blitz better than we can. I have seen college and HS teams that blitz better than us. Frankly, it is pathetic and embarrassing.

In today's nfl, with it being a passing league and the rules they way there in regards to coverage, you must be able to blitz effectively. We have not been able to in years.

Now, to the bend don't break philosophy: Scoring is up in the NFL in this era. There are more big plays than ever that often lead to scores. Offenses have advantages they have never had in the past. Bending/Not Break does not work. The longer the offense is on the field, the more chances they have to break a big play and score. The advantage is in their favor, not the defenses. Counting on turnovers to win in the NFL is just plain idiotic. It is the single most unpredictable thing you can rely on to win a game and yet that is the focus of you defense? Think about that for a second.

he gets out coached  
deadkurtrulz : 10/17/2013 9:49 am : link
every single week. In the NFL coaching is everything. Every QB we face knows exactly what to expect and when. The Giant defense has been ranked at the bottom since he came here. I am amazed he lasted this long.
chasing $$$  
area junc : 10/17/2013 9:51 am : link
Spags is showing what taking the bottom-feeding jobs get you. I thought he was a DC-only and it was a big mistake taking the STL job when he left. we were offering the highest-paid DC job in the league. STL is a small market team with terrible ownership compared to what hes used to. His D was destroyed by injuries.

then he goes to NO back to his natural position (defensive coordinator) but its the aftermath of Bouty-Gate where everything was rotten. Another bad situation.

POOF his stock is way down.

give this guy a stable environment as a defensive coordinator and hes good. i'd take him back in a heartbeat
Did you watch the chargers Monday night?  
chiro56 : 10/17/2013 9:53 am : link
Their personal is not very good on D . One or two play makers. Mediocre linebackers, poor d line. Yet he schemed the colts with blitzes and confused Luck with different looks and shut down colts offense . Pagano is a good coordinator. That's what we need..
Heh. So the injury excuse or bad personnel is ok for Spags.  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 9:53 am : link
But not for Fewell.

Got it. Just trying to keep score here.
because he's mediocre  
chris r : 10/17/2013 9:54 am : link
and we should be aiming to get the best guys in here possible.
Fewell has presided over Historically bad NFL and franchise Defenses  
Chef : 10/17/2013 9:54 am : link
That is all that need to be said.. You can cherry pick good and bad performances all you want it is the bottom line that is most important and this defense sucks year in and out with Fewell at the helm..
I think he was not given  
GMANinDC : 10/17/2013 9:59 am : link
the proper personnel to effectively run a good defense system after the SB win. The DT's were terrible up until this year. The LB'ers were terrible and still are..The CB's have been beat up and unhealthy most of the last 2 years.

Up until this year, it seems he got better personnel to work with but the absence of a pass rush is still hindering the production of the defense..

people still clamor for Spags but if you really look at the personnel he had and what Fewell has, it's no comparison..Strahan, Tuck, Osi on the ends are a terror..And you had Cofield, Alford, Robbins etc as the DT's. That was formidable..

That being said, it wouldn't bother me if he left, by i bet the next guy is going to have the same problems unless JPP find his way back to form and they get another 2 or 3 DE's on this roster..
i want him gone  
Hades07 : 10/17/2013 10:01 am : link
Because I never wanted him hired. I thought he was a poor fit for the defensive talent at the time.
its a smaller sample size for spags  
area junc : 10/17/2013 10:03 am : link
he is a defensive coordinator only. lousy head coach. said that when he left.

he has only 1 year to analyze as a Defensive Coordinator, since he left - last year with the Saints without Payton. basically a "give up" year for the Saints.

he was terrible implementing a new scheme with bad players in a bad situation. i'm not shoveling dirt on him just yet as a defensive coordinator

meanwhile fewell's struggled for 4 years here with various personnel + health situations
Arcarsenal is right. Enough with the Spags nonsense already.  
Victor in CT : 10/17/2013 10:04 am : link
He flopped in STL and in NO.

I also don't think it's a good idea for keep TC with new coordinators. This is looking more and more like a rebuilding project. 10 yrs, 2 SBs and being 68 leads me to say thanks Tom, welcome to the Ring of Honor, see you at the HOF. 10 years in the NFL is enough for anyone. TC will be 70+ by the time they are ready to be serious contenders again.
$$$$$$  
area junc : 10/17/2013 10:04 am : link
and let me say i am very disappointed in steve i think he derailed his career with the decisions he made, chasing glory
victor  
area junc : 10/17/2013 10:07 am : link
he flopped in Stl as a Head Coach - I.E. he was not running the defense like a DC

he flopped in NO in the year following the bounty-gate sanctions. big deal

the one thing weird is the reports he was acting like a dick at the team facilities. that is not the spags we knew here..
GMAN, if you think  
Randy in CT : 10/17/2013 10:18 am : link
being at the bottom of the league defensively in consecutive years is due to personnel, then I don't know what to tell you. Defending Fewell is amazingly suspect.
My feeling is,  
Doomster : 10/17/2013 10:19 am : link
he has not put guys in position to win.....he has not been able to make adjustments....

For the life of me, outside of a 6 game stretch, this defense has been a joke.....the bend don't break philosophy, and hope for a turnover, keeps the offense off the field....

There has been no consistency to this defense....

The comparison to Spag's is a fantasy....he was in the right place at the right time.....to come back to this defense, that basically has no personnel, is just a pipe dream...

The one thing about a Spag's defense was, it gambled, it presented different formations to attack from, that created confusion for the opposing OL, and helped to create more pressure on the OL.....
RE: victor  
Victor in CT : 10/17/2013 10:19 am : link
In comment 11282973 area junc said:
Quote:
he flopped in Stl as a Head Coach - I.E. he was not running the defense like a DC

he flopped in NO in the year following the bounty-gate sanctions. big deal

the one thing weird is the reports he was acting like a dick at the team facilities. that is not the spags we knew here..


You and others have all been talking him up as the great man, or as arcarsenal said, "St.Steve". Yet you have nothing but excuses for his failures. When he came here in 2007, the Giants were loaded on the DL, had a good MLB in Pierce, decent OLBs and enough vets in the 2ndary to help Webster and Ross come along. If he flopped in STL and NO for lack of talent and all those difficult extenuating circumstances you mentioned, what do you think will happen here? With Tuck gone, Kiwi fading, JPP disappointing, no LBs, Webster, Ross gone, Brown coming off ACL surgery?
Sign Spags or Don't  
AnishPatel : 10/17/2013 10:24 am : link
sign him. I want the next DC to be just as aggressive. Spag's use of various 43 fronts was great. He knew how to utilize players like James Butler and Michael Johnson. His scheme for us worked perfectly here because he was aggressive, and disguised his coverages.

I want that again. I don't care if it's Spags or not. Plus it's not like we are too good for him. Tim Lewis got thrown out of Pittsburgh, and we signed him. Hufangel and Sheridan didn't coach before and we gave them their first shot. It's not like Spags shit in the bed here. I am willing to give Spags another shot and see what he can do. If not, then get another coordinator who can be aggressive.

RE: GMAN, if you think  
Chef : 10/17/2013 10:25 am : link
In comment 11283005 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
being at the bottom of the league defensively in consecutive years is due to personnel, then I don't know what to tell you. Defending Fewell is amazingly suspect.


Amen..
Randy...  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 10:28 am : link
Point me to a list of defenses that performed above average with an offense turning the ball over at a historic rate.

Thanks.
RE: Sign Spags or Don't  
Victor in CT : 10/17/2013 10:29 am : link
In comment 11283018 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
sign him. I want the next DC to be just as aggressive. Spag's use of various 43 fronts was great. He knew how to utilize players like James Butler and Michael Johnson. His scheme for us worked perfectly here because he was aggressive, and disguised his coverages.

I want that again. I don't care if it's Spags or not. Plus it's not like we are too good for him. Tim Lewis got thrown out of Pittsburgh, and we signed him. Hufangel and Sheridan didn't coach before and we gave them their first shot. It's not like Spags shit in the bed here. I am willing to give Spags another shot and see what he can do. If not, then get another coordinator who can be aggressive.


AP, I agree that whoever it is, he has to bring an aggressive philosophy.
Fewell has had shit to work with the past two years.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/17/2013 10:29 am : link
Front four get no pass rush. They have no LBs.
Maybe he should  
AnishPatel : 10/17/2013 10:32 am : link
look up blitzing. His blitz packages suck and no one gets home. That's when he decides to actually blitz. It wasn't the LBs giving up home run balls last season at a big time rate.

But hey, this is perfect, his contract will expire, and we probably won't extend him. So it's perfect ending. Someones head is going to roll and most likely will be his first.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2013 10:37 am : link
Here's the thing.

No DC is going to be able to field an above average D with an offense turning the ball over 4x every single game and what is mostly a pile of shit at linebacker on top of half our CB's being injured and DE's not playing up to par.

Like I keep saying.. if you want to replace Fewell, that's fine. But don't expect much better results unless the personnel improves and the offense gets their collective heads out of their asses.
Its not a question of whether to fire him or not.  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 10/17/2013 10:38 am : link
Its to resign or not. And at this point what has he done to warrant a resigning? I think he is the definition of average when it comes to coaching just like I think "Bend and not Break" is an average defensive philosophy.
I want Fewell gone because  
Emil : 10/17/2013 10:43 am : link
I don't like the overall passive defensive philosophy. When rules were different and defensive backs could get away with more physical play, a more passive and arguably "vanilla" approach made sense. Defend against the deep ball and hit the receiver immedietly and hard when he catches the ball. Now defense is played best when you get guys causing disruption in the offensive backfield. You see how often teams go max protect and quick drop on the Giants. Your front 4 is not going to get there, especially not off the edge on a consistent enough basis.

I see no agressive play out of this defense, terrible blitz disguise and design, and painful predictability. I watch other teams (like the Jets, Patriots, Bills, and Houston) and I see multiple fronts, agressive play, agressive schemes, active players, and a completely different attitude. I don't place 100% of the blame on Fewell. I also am disappointed with our defensive captains. They need to be held responsible for the lack of emmotion out there.


Even when he had players performing well (JPP monster year in 2011) the Defense was still near the bottom of the league.

Coaches don't earn lifetime passes  
Joe in Cambridge : 10/17/2013 10:45 am : link
Fewell hasn't done enough to earn the opportunity to coach here again. Just like anyone else on the team (except David Diehl) he's got to produce or start packing.
arc,  
Randy in CT : 10/17/2013 10:46 am : link
there is consistency over the years that Fewell has been here regarding how bad his defenses have been--TO's notwithstanding.
Some Perry Fewell highlights  
ghost718 : 10/17/2013 10:47 am : link
- 3 man rushes with our best player at Nose Tackle

- NASCAR Package doing nothing,no changes being made

- Guys watching the QB,not rushing, and waving there hands like this is a volleyball tournament(there was more of this in past years)

- Defensive ends dropping into coverage

- Defense tackles dropping into coverage

- Jayron Hosley blitzing Cam Newton(I think with Hosley on his back,Cam could still run a 4.5) How about sending Prince on a blitz?

So we're gonna need a new defensive coordinator.


arc  
Greg from LI : 10/17/2013 10:48 am : link
I agree that there isn't anyone - Dick LeBeau, Bill Belichick, Buddy Ryan, Bud Carson, whoever - that could turn this sad-sack bunch into a top defense. I do, however, think that a better DC could at least drag them into mediocrity.
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