Am curious to hear from those in the BBI community who follow college football closely, if the Giants had a choice of these three guys in the 2014 NFL Draft, which would you recommend they choose?
Between those two, I would still go with Clowney
Trading down might not bring a lot of picks.
any of those players will be available with the 32nd pick.
I want to win not finish last.
but if you assume that Clowney is a dominant DE and Matthews is a dominant, LT, then either would make great sense. One issue is that Clowney's motor and attitude have been questioned -- fairly or not.
Still a ways to go....
1 - Clowney
2 - Nix
3 - Barr
4 - Matthews
pick up extra 2nd & 3rd round picks and choose the best of what falls to them.
But only to a team that has a pick in the top ten, I'm not moving out of the top ten, if I'm the Giants. Trading down will accomplish a couple things. First of all, it will net us more picks, secondly, it will save us the money of paying a top. 3 player, although the difference now is nowhere as bad as it used to be.
If I can't trade down a few spots and get a good enough return, I'm taking Matthews and starting to rebuild this line. Mattews and Pugh is a good start. Commit at least one more pick to the OL in the next 3 rounds, and suddenly the OL will be moving in the right direction.
does Clowney tear up the combine or does the hype return a bit to Earth? There is little doubt in my mind that if he's on the board, the Giants select him. Regardless of O-line woes and the fact that DE is now a position of need, they'd still take him.
But I'm leaning toward Barr. Would be nice to see some real LB play on this team for once. Hell, look how much a banged up Beason stood out so quickly.
DT has been one of the strong points of this team. I like Nix, but no way in hell I'm taking him where you have him, at 2, if I'm the Giants. Not a chance. They can move back a few spots and take him, if they like him that much, which I sure as hell hope they don't.
If your taking a LT one year after extending Beatty, what are you doing with Beatty? Please don't tell me your cutting him, so we can have more dead money against our poor cap situation.
A reflection on Jerry Reese?
A reflection on Flaherty?
He's doing okay!
What do you guys think of Bradley Roby? I think he sure looks like a top 10 pick, if not a top 5. We know how much the Giants like drafting CBs and DEs. A combo of Roby and Prince would be a nightmare of a matchup for other teams.
I'm not sure if you've been watching, bit to say Beatty has struggled at times, would be an understatement. To not draft the best LT in the draft (assuming the Giants feel that he is) because they have Beatty signed is not a good way of doing business. Again, I'm not in the Giants head, so I'm not sure if they think Beatty can move to the right side or not, but he is NOT going to be the reason to pass on a LT, if they think the potential LT can man the left side for the next decade. Beatty has yet to prove that he's that guy, IMO
Very talented, but his off-the-field issues are pressing and Jared Aberderis ate his lunch. I would take him in the 20's
He is not the answer but the dead money from cutting him to add to the rest of the cap problems is not the answer either. I don't want to keep fielding a team with veterans minimum player because we cut players like Canty on big money deals.
has zero effective pass rushers. If the Giants want to continue to concentrate of the Dline and rushing the passer no matter who the new coaches are, I think you have to really look at Clowney.
If you do draft him, you play him from day 1. No coddling this guy like the Giants feel they have to do with Moore.
The Giants were really over a barrel when they re-signed Beatty. There were no better & cheaper alternatives.
That The dead money to this years cap from cutting Canty is only $1.7 million correct? That's just an uninformed rant on your part.
but it certainly sounded like Clowney was very disruptive, collapsing pockets and channeling running plays even where he wasn't able to make the tackle.
I was giving an example, all the dead money adds up. I don't have all the numbers, maybe you should post all dead money for this year and next.
Reese is really stupid sometimes.
don't think the giants are coddling Moore...he's trying to work thru a bad leg.
This is for this season
Ahmad Bradshaw $2,500,000
Chris Canty $1,700,000
Michael Boley $1,400,000
Osi Umenyiora $932,555
Marvin Austin $311,509
Ramses Barden $223,823
David Carr $165,000
Da'Rel Scott $144,576
Dallas Reynolds $141,177
Justin Trattou $141,175
Matt McCants $66,174
Jeremy Horne $56,118
Greg Jones $51,894
Jonathan Petrus $47,790
Adewale Ojomo $28,235
Matt Broha $26,334
Charles James $24,000
Tyler Sash $19,670
Marcus Harris $18,000
Steven Baker $18,000
Selvish Capers $17,824
Marcus Davis $15,000
Aaron Curry $15,000
Eric Herman $13,988
Ty Powell $12,000
Martin Parker $10,000
David Douglas $6,667
Darin Drakeford $6,000
Jeremy Wright $5,000
JoJo Nicolas $5,000
Janzen Jackson $3,334
Joe Martinek $2,000
Stephen Goodin $2,000
Julian Talley $1,334
Chase Clement $833
Adewale Ojomo $500
right arm and a second guy with his left arm.
Marvin Austin $311,509
Eric Herman $41,964
Tyler Sash $19,670
Da'Rel Scott $13,988
Chase Clement $1,667
Adewale Ojomo $500
if he sucks or if he's hurt or if the rest of the line is shitty enough to make a serviceable LT look less than serviceable. But if you can upgrade to a blue goose and he's in a class by himself when we're on the clock you do it. Maybe Pugh goes inside, maybe Beatty ends up a backup.
where can you get this info?
how do we compare to other teams?
Otherwise I'd take Matthews and start him at LT. I know he played RT but the guy's skillset says LT only to me. Move Beatty to RT and Pugh to LG.
I like Clowney but I question his motor and passion. Even when he's disruptive in a game like he played today, I still see plays where he could give better effort. Same goes for last year. His red flags imo are piling up.
Barr has all the athletic ability in the world but until he develops some moves and reads his keys better I'd have to pass. He's still learning and I hope to see progress as the season goes on, but we're not a rebuilding team. I'd hate to have to wait for this guy develop while we have a qb in his prime.
Nix is a very good player and could be a top 10 pick. But simply put, we don't need a DT, especially that high.
Is on there twice because he was cut , then brought back, and cut again, I believe
still get Matthews and with the other 1st get Mike Evans.
that's a wrap for the 2014 NFL draft for the Giants, it's all gravy after that.
I think he's the goods. He was blowing up play after play in the backfield. He's legit.
We need Clowney to be LT like and it wouldn't hurt if Bridgewater looks like Andrew Luck the rest of the way, either. What we want is teams tripping over each other to get up there to draft those guys. What we DON'T want is for the top couple of picks to be like 2013, where no team on the planet had any interest in moving up
who is disgusted that DE is a position of need?
but not disgusted. JPP is hurt, Moore is young, and the older guys are getting older.
much of UCLA, but what I have seen is Barr rushing a lot from a standing position. I think he would be great in a 3-4. Idk about a playing DE or OLB in a 4-3. Maybe Sy or WillAllen/Peterson can give a more in depth scouting report.
I do not want an offensive lineman with a top 5 or 10 pick. You rarely see SB teams with a 1st round lineman on the OLine. Outside of the 49ers last year the only other team with a 1st round pick on the OLine was Tarik Glenn for the Colts.
Clowney is the best player mentioned in the title IMO I don't even think it is that close either. Outside of QB the Giants value DE higher then any position. I can't see the Giants passing on Clowney if he is available. We have a much bigger need at DE now then we did when we took Kiwi and JPP in the first round.
the Patriots had two in Nate Solder and Logan Mankins.
the Ravens started two 1st round picks last year in Oher and McKinnie (though they signed McKinnie as a FA)
I'd wager a guess many, perhaps most SB teams have at least one first rounded on the OL.
Or trade down a few slots. Just look at what the Rams got moving back to what, the sixth pick.
SB Champs. The Pats never won with Mankins or Solder. Mankins was also the last pick of the first round. I did the research after the Giants SB from like 2003 to 2011. Also talking about teams that originally drafted the players. There is a few, but not a lot of them. Also it is a lot different drafting these guys after pick 20 then it is to draft a guy top 5-10.
And we had Snee who was a high second rounder
well SF didn't win last year.
Just not sure I see him as high as others have him, nor do I see him as a fit in our system. He is best when he is just having to rush the passer, but I am skeptical about him in coverage. Also I question his play diagnosis skills and as a LB in a 4-3 that is important
to do the research again. I don't remember the exact time frame, but there has not been a lot of 1st rounder OLineman on either of the SB teams. I might go back and look when I am bored tomorrow. Look at teams that drafted an OLineman high and the player sometimes turned out good, but did nothing to help the team win (Gallery, Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Jason Smith, Andre Smith). I just feel a top 10 pick is too high for a lineman. Look who we won the SB with at OLine. Yes Kareem and Snee were 2nd round picks. Had a 6th round pick starting at LT.
I can find that is talking about Olineman taken in the top 10. OLineman taken in the top 10
- ( New Window
but the Giants in SB XLII other than UFA's had no high draft picks at OL (Snee as a 2nd was the highest) no high draft pick RB's (Jacobs was the highest), no high WR's (Toomer was the highest), no high draft pick TE's, no high draft pick LB's, so basically you're saying only QB, DL and CB are worthy of high first round picks if your basis is SB winning teams.
really just QB, that was the only top 10 pick the Giants had on SB XLII.
draft a QB, CB or DE that high, but like I said there has not been many first round Olineman on either SB teams for awhile. Also don't think the Giants gave Beatty a good contract only to move him to RT? Our first round pick last year would move to Guard.
think the relationship is meaningful as much as it is coincidental (between high pick OL and SB winners).
Giants have a ton of holes. If they go OL, fine with me. And then if that means beatty moves to RT and Pugh to G if that makes the line better, fine with me.
No high pick OL being on recent SB winners is kind of like no league leader in rushing being on a SB winner. it's a coincidence IMO - not a reason to not draft a player the Giants feel is the best fit/BPA when they pick.
We need to get an IMPACT player, so I think maybe the RB from Oregon. We need a very good RB. We don't have one. A guy who can run and catch. Wilson ain't it.
5 pick, I'd be more than a little surprised if they take a RB.
But has Beatty really been that bad this season save for the Carolina game?
Nix #2? Good but not great player. Always concerned about overweight players down the line.
To be a superbowl contender you need to improve the pass rush and the OL. You take Clowney in the first and draft a G like Gabe Jackson or Anthony Steen in the second and a C like swanson or Grassu later.
Barr is really good, but he's a 3-4 OLB. Unless the defense is changed in the offseason, not having Barr go upfield even for 1 play out of 3 is a waste of his talent. I think you'd have to bet on the upside of Clowney even as his play and effort this season have been lacking.
(I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about Marcus Mariota.)
I absolutely agree. I think you may see the Giants use some cap space on vet OL just because that seems to be their M.O. for the most part and I am fine with that as well. I have said this over the past few years, though, that Gs are severely undervalued in todays NFL. A lot if not most pressure seem to come from inside blitzes. You can hide an OT's weaknesses with putting a TE next to him, a RB chipping or even a WR tight to help chip as well. It is extremely difficult to give a G help. Where does the help come from? Most of the time it is the center. Well, when you get pressure up the middle you can't count on that meaning that Gs have to win their one on one battles. As a DC I would look at a team's OL and scheme to take advantage of any weak OL in the middle of the line. It's tough enough handling 300+ DL one on one but then if you start stunting on the DL or bringing extra pressure, etc. you are now challenging the Gs mentally as well as physically. As and offense how do you defend against that? Run play action? Maybe. Chip with another OL? I would scheme it so you cannot do that and if you did then you would have a DE one on one with a RB, etc. Move the pocket? Ok, because that shortens the field for my defense.
I think Pugh has been better than expected. I'm not against taking a stud OT and moving Pugh inside. I think our team would be much improved if that happened. I also believe that the Giants can live with Pugh and Beatty on the outsides and if we can bolster the interior OL then you can see this offense improve by leaps and bounds.
Either way, we need at least two new linemen in the middle. Whether that comes in FA or the draft or a combination of the two is great by me. I think we have the skill guys to get by with a dominant OL. Can they improve that much in one offseason? Who knows. What I do know is that with all the skill players we do have we can't really use them the way we want to and that is frustrating. Next year we could lose Nicks and we don't know who our starting TE would be but it isn't like we are getting much from that position right now anyway. I think we have some talent at the RB position that can shine a lot more with an improved OL. We still need to add another player there at some point though.
After I got all of that out of the way I would like to throw this out there. What about Sammy Watkins? I know we wouldn't pick him over some of the above mentioned names but what a playmaker that kid is. I would love to see him paired up with Cruz. We can create a ton of mismatches with those two guys. Both can play on the outside or out of the slot. You could shift and motion them around to get them matched up on different defenders. Watkins' speed, quicks and acceleration are extremely rare and he has decent size. He's not Calvin Johnson big but he isn't Tavon Austin small either. That kid is going to be electric at the next level.
I wonder if he is hurt or just got lazy. He comes froma good family. Just wish he would get it together. \
The Giant's need a few things but I am still hopeful they will be drafting low and not at the top of the draft.
He is the least of our worries. Why do you want the Giants drafting low? Do you think with six loses that they are still making the playoffs? Just curious. I'm not rooting against them but with the way the season has unfolded the losses aren't bothering me as much. If it translates into a better draft position and we draft better players to make our team better I'm all for it. If the Giants didn't bomb in 2003 then we never would have had Eli. Good things can come out of negative situations.
tough choice to make. Clowney has a long way to go to make that happen. He may be the next LT like force in the NFL but right now he sounds more like a bust. Matthews is the safe choice and Pugh can take Snee's spot Beattie goes to right tackle when Matthews takes over at LT. I love trading down and gathering more picks but Matthews has HOF blood lines and if Clowney is the real deal the sky is the limit. You just can't pass on talent like that. Right now I take Matthews but I want Clowney to be the guy.
Is going to make a lot of people look really stupid come this time next year. He will not be a bust unless his wheels fall off.
I wonder where Alabama's left tackle fits into the equation? When all is said and done, he may end up being the first offensive linemen taken.
I want no part of Clowney. I watched him again yesterday and he decided he wanted to play football, which was nice. One thing about him that troubles me: he seems like a serious flake. Walking into halftime with his team losing to an underdog he was hamming it up with the crowd, laughing and joking like his team was up by 3 touchdowns. Not my kind of players. Yes, he is super-quick and makes the blocker whiff a lot, but if you can get your hands on him, you can control him. I haven't seen him fight through blocks. Mostly he just runs around them. That works in college, not sure it will in the pros. I may be dead-wrong about him, but he's a boom or bust pick and with the first or second pick in the draft, you had better not miss.
Matthews is the safest pick. I don't think you can move Beatty to right tackle, however, because he's a weak run blocker. So either you play Matthews at right tackle and move Pugh to LG or you cut Beatty and take the hit. I'd rather cut my losses with Beatty who only had one decent year (a contract year). Then you're set with bookend tackles for the next 10 years, or you move Pugh to LG and build a dominant left side of the line. Either way, it's good.
In round two, of the seniors I've noticed so far in college ball this year, I'd like to see us pick up another guard like Zac Epping from Minnesota or a RB like Mike Davis from SC. They both may be gone by then, though.
but the only guys I've seen with that size/speed/explosiveness combination are Mario Williams and Julius Peppers. Coples wasn't that explosive but he had some of the same concerns as Clowney - accusations of disinterest and taking plays off. If he's the downside for Clowney you can live with that.
this year. He started one year and was given a contract that is toraly disproportionate to what he had proven. What's worse is his run blocking a below average but too many people kept insisting he was something much better for some unknown reason
I also think he's soft. Mentally as well as physically. He can't be moved to RT and his contract is worse that the abortion that Reese gave Baas.
Take the best tackle in Rd 1. It will amaze people how much better the defense will be if the Giants can run the ball again. I think he D has been giving up due to the offense just sucking the life oh of every game.
watch #68 on Baylor block... then trade down and draft him... Beatty had 1 bad game... our edge blocking on the run is poor mainly because of the TE position. Pugh has shown steady improvement. our issue is the interior line. Sign me up for richardson... and tbh i think we end up in the 5-10 range picking so it might not be a trade down
Does w.beatty know where the weight room is? he looks like a tight end playing tackle. great feet but extremely weak. doesnt look to have put on any muscle or size since coming in
Pugh may be the best LT on the team in a fair look, which would justify his 1st round. then u can focus on the interior. you are starting over
when that has been our focus for the past ten years seems a little redundant to me. We have JPP, Da Monster, Kiwi & Tuck. Most teams have one good DE if that. If you don't figure picking in the top ten again for a while it should be at a position with high retention that will help you win games.
Clowney while a great DE prospect will not help the Giants when next year. He could sack the QB on every other play (Which he won't) and we still loose. We have only been able to manage field goals because we can't run or pass the ball. We need Olineman and in the worst way. The reason Brady keeps winning despite his hodge podge set of receivers, Oline.
OL or trade down for picks to get more Olineman.
and people claiming otherwise are ignoring his actual performances. He's never been anything but average in pass pro and can't run block. He's been exposed by top level NFL guys. Kirwan has outlined it and I forget who the ex coach OL expert was but someone posted a link to a breakdown of Beatty's technique issues.
He's not a 9 million dollar a year LT and he's a HUGE issue when he's getting that much cash, can't run block and can't play any other position.
IMO its an issue if you have to pass on a top tier Blue Goose LT because you're into a T who is not anywhere near or will never even be a top 10 LT.
$ than cruz. think about that for a second. unreal. that has to be a laugh in the lockerroom
Jadeveon Clowney is over hype and plays when he want to, not worth the early first round pick.
Anthony Barr is best fitted for a three four defensive, not a good fit for the Giants. Have to pass on Barr.
Louis Nix just too early of a pick in the first round and there is a very good chance that the Giants could and should if he is there draft Ra'Shede Hageman with there first round pick in the second round. That is if the Giants stay on their current path and got a very early pick.
Have to go with Texas A&M OT Jake Matthews if there are the picks I have to go with.
He's been well above average in other games.
enter the draft last year. He began this year with a good butnotgreat USCe team. They are not national champ material. Probably the third best team in the SEC. He hashadnagging injuries this year. He was very disruptive against a very good o-line for the Vols yesterday. He is legit and will be a difference maker on Sundays.
Line him up opposite a healthy JPP and watch the matchup problems for opposing offenses. He is the guy.
I agree with the thought of spending the next two picks on interior o linemen if there are candidates who warrant being selected.
If we have a chance to take Clowney I say do it .
He was on National TV Saturday and he just turned it up
a notch and he showed you why he is special .
Cross your fingers that JPP comes back to form
Then we have to sign Linvil with Hankins and Moore
JPP and Clowdog we have a pretty formidable fornt on D
Grab a starter for the o-line and Draft the Best Center
in the Draft .
Nicks would be a wild card trade but not for a 3rd
really should franchise him if someone won't give up
two picks I say a 1st and a fourth would be worthy .