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Still baffled about this season

Josh in the City : 10/26/2013 4:37 pm
Going into this year, I think many of us had legitimate expectations that this team could compete for the Super Bowl. There were plenty of conversations about possibly being the first team to host the game in our home stadium. Now being only 2 months into the season with one of the worst starts in franchise history, I still can't believe what has transpired.

Aside from being a complete embarrassment, it seems that much of the fan base, along with our management, severely overrated the talent on this team. The organization (as us as fan) also overlooked many of our weaknesses and overrated many of our own returning players and the vets who were signed on one year, prove it, contracts.

I'm sure we're going to look back at this season as a turning point for the franchise as there is sure to be plenty of change in the upcoming offseason. Hopefully we, along with the higher-ups in the organization, take off the rose colored glasses and make the necessary moves to make us competitive not just next season but for many seasons to come.
Draft misses,  
AnishPatel : 10/26/2013 4:40 pm : link
scheme, injury , age and degradation of talent has all hurt us big time.
Based on last year's finish  
pjcas18 : 10/26/2013 4:43 pm : link
and this off-season anyone thinking the team would compete for a super bowl was a little delusional I think.

but I didn't think they'd be this bad. I thought a 6 - 10, 7 - 9 season was realistic.
20 million in cap space wasted on Snee and Baas  
oipolloi : 10/26/2013 4:43 pm : link
two injured players that should never have been on the roster. And it's not just the money, it's also the roster sports

Giants would have had two other OL who might actually have been able to play

you have no chance of winning with the OL playing like it has. It led to the offense getting completely out of sync. Even when he has time, Eli is rushing the ball because his expectation is that he has no time
Oh come on  
BigBlueShock : 10/26/2013 4:48 pm : link
Take off the rose colored glasses? WTF? The fans overrated the talent? what the hell do we, the fans, have to do with this mess? I'm sorry, your post is ridiculous, and meaningless. Anytime you have a two time Super Bowl MVP QB in his prime leading your team, you should have expectations for the Super Bowl. Especially in today's watered down version of the NFL. Add in talent like Cruz, Nicks, a healthy JPP, a healthy Tuck, a pretty good secondary, and this team had plenty of talent to look at and think that they could contend. Have you seen the injury list every week? Have you seen how many players are on IR?

But, yeah, let's insult the fanbase that's already going through a miserable year. If we would have all foreseen that this team would lose their first six games, things would be much different right now!
I got a bad feeling in preseason  
Phil S : 10/26/2013 4:57 pm : link
When they looked so weak fundamentally. Poor in the red zone, weak at o line no pass rush
I don't know how  
SanFranGiantsFan : 10/26/2013 4:59 pm : link
anyone isn't baffled.

Yes, maybe we weren't Super Bowl contenders. I thought we'd go 9-7, 10-6 because we always seem to hover around there.

But for anyone to say they saw us @ 1-6 after 7 weeks...well, they're lying.
BB Shock  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/26/2013 5:06 pm : link
here is the issue though...
1. We did not think that we really had NO TE that could do anything for us. Not even block.

2. The O line was still horrible and maybe the expectations for Pugh to make a huge impact initially was just unfair.

3. Our safeties are very good but the corners are over rated. Prince plays like a 4th rounder, TT was never going to be the old TT. Thank God for Ross this season.

4. Nicks has been a shell of himself.

5. JPP is an athletic kid that started fast and then fizzled. At this point in his career, he has had more bad games than good ones. So, lets not put him up there with the top DEs in the league please.

6. Tuck is not the player he used to be even when 100% healthy.

7. Our special teams were not improved and if anything went backwards going from Tynes to Brown. We still cannot cover kicks and punts.

8. Leadership - a bit lacking. Eli leads on offense with his play. However, we did not have anyone to light a fire under the rest of the unit until Jacobs came back. No emotion without him. Like they just dont care. On defense we have Rolle and Tuck. Quality leaders.

9. Defense- we came off of a season where we were horrible and we did not improve at LB.

So, yeah I suppose we should EXPECT to go to the Superbowl because we have a QB in his prime but we did not have a full team around him and anyone who thinks we did is just a homer or has no clue. Just ask Dan Marino. You could see even in pre season when the starters were out there that they were lost in space.

I think as much as we want to kill Reese for the job he has done recently, the Jacobs and the Beason trade has been exactly what this team needed. It is also about all you could expect him to do mid season.
I predicted 11-5, maybe 10-6 based on the soft schedule...  
SB : 10/26/2013 5:12 pm : link
...and the sad part is that the schedule has been very soft. We just haven't capitalized. This shit season is solely due to Snee and Baas being so injured that they have been non-functional. I didn't see that coming. If they played even up to last year's level (which was not that good) we'd be 4-3 right now, maybe 5-2.

A crap o-line will make even the best offensive players look like crap.
Agree about the  
Josh in the City : 10/26/2013 5:20 pm : link
end of last season being a warning sign. But I believed the oline was one of the biggest issues and with our 1st round pick (Pugh) and Boothe coming into the starting lineup along with Beatty having another year under his belt that our oline would be vastly improved. Obviously it's only transgressed even further.

With Nicks coming into the season seemingly healthy as well as JPP and our signings at DT, I really thought the defense would have a chance to be pretty good. Never in my wildest dreams did I think 0-6 would ever have been possible.
I said after the second preseason game  
Blue Blood : 10/26/2013 5:27 pm : link
I see a team that is 7-9.. I have since amended that to 5-11.
JPP  
Blue Blood : 10/26/2013 5:28 pm : link
was not healthy at the beginning of the season.. He was not in any shape to play football. We had mediocre linebackers and the OL was putrid in the preseason.. Then the RB's started dropping like flies..
EricJ  
BigBlueShock : 10/26/2013 5:32 pm : link
I agree with your post completely. As fans, there was no reason to go into this season thinking that the Giants would be top 5 pick bad. Literally everything has gone as bad as it possibly could. Everything. Even if you thought much of what has happened was a possibility, you STILL would think that 0-6 was possible. And the op basically says that the fanbase was way off, which really isn't true anyway. I think most of us really needed a wait and see approach. This site was absolutely not running rampant with guarantees of a championship
Turnover ratio has been huge  
fuzzy : 10/26/2013 5:39 pm : link
From +.9 last year to -2 this year, almost 3 per game. Sure there is some cause/effect there with being behind and having to play recklessly but this is one undisciplined squad. That and punt returns. I have no idea how a team can be so fundamentally unsound.
how were they legitamate  
chris r : 10/26/2013 5:43 pm : link
expectations that we'd compete for a SB?
Here's a link to the pre-season prediction thread I started...  
SB : 10/26/2013 5:43 pm : link
...before game 1. Lot's of realistic predictions on it, a lot fewer predicted SB.

Link
Josh, not sure I understand your thinking ...  
baadbill : 10/26/2013 5:54 pm : link
Quote:
it seems that much of the fan base, along with our management, severely overrated the talent on this team. The organization (as us as fan) also overlooked many of our weaknesses and overrated many of our own returning players and the vets who were signed on one year, prove it, contracts.
...
Hopefully we, along with the higher-ups in the organization, take off the rose colored glasses and make the necessary moves to make us competitive not just next season but for many seasons to come.


How/why are you talking about the fan base as though they have any input/impact on player evaluation?
In retrospect, there is very little to be baffled about...  
M.S. : 10/26/2013 5:55 pm : link
(1) A gun-slinging QB who was not only plagued by bad-luck and bad routes, but also by amazingly piss-poor decision making;

(2) An offensive line that can't run block and can only pass block a little bit better;

(3) Defensive ends who could't rush my Grandmother, let alone an NFL QB;

(4) The inability to create any turnovers while their 2-time Super Bowl MVP QB turned into a turnover machine;

(4) Humiliating breakdowns on punt coverage.

That pretty much sums it up. A very shitty 1-6 team.
Injuries, players not playing  
Harry53 : 10/26/2013 5:56 pm : link
Up to expectations, the biggest reason is the coaching staff not being able to adapt and change. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The communication problems on both sides of the ball are an epic failure, this coaching staff does NOT put the players in the best spots to succeed.
OL  
DavidinBMNY : 10/26/2013 6:08 pm : link
OL stinks. With back-up back up RB the suckiness is exacerbated. Fix the OL and Pass Rush and this team is back in business.
RE: OL  
baadbill : 10/26/2013 6:14 pm : link
In comment 11301182 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
OL stinks. With back-up back up RB the suckiness is exacerbated. Fix the OL and Pass Rush and this team is back in business.


So fix the OL, DL, and RB and we are good to go... well now I feel better! :)
neither coordinator  
blakjedi : 10/26/2013 7:06 pm : link
on either side if the ball gas changed their gameplan since losing - no shut out- by atlanta in week 15 of last season... they must have thought it was an anomaly when no its actually their lack of coordination.
blakjedi  
Ace718 : 10/26/2013 7:09 pm : link
It took 6 losses but there was a change in Gilbride's game plan last week. We saw a lot of short passes to the backs. A lot of quick throws to the receivers as well.
Eli Manning is 31st in passer rating at this moment. Thirty fucking  
BlueLou : 10/26/2013 7:29 pm : link
first. Much of that is on the disatrous OL, but still, Rodgers has a buncha stiffs blocking for him too, and he's dropped all the way to 4th (from 1st.)

You think this team is a top 5 drafting team, you start by drafting a franchise QB and ship Eli elsewhere for more picks. That's what I'd do, anyway, if this year's team finishes that poorly.
Eli will not get you much in return.  
Ace718 : 10/26/2013 7:39 pm : link
He's making a lot of money and coming off his worst season, at least so far. No team is giving you a first or even 2nd rounder for him. Especially with the rookie pay scale now.
Blue Lou  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/26/2013 7:39 pm : link
you really think there is a franchise QB out there in the draft? who is it? remember, half (or more) of the QBs taken in the top 10 never live up to expectations.

Plus, now you have to pay him more than what Eli makes. How would we sign other players too? The team would suck next year and possibly the year after too.
EricJ you are absolutely dead wrong about this:  
BlueLou : 10/26/2013 7:46 pm : link
Quote:
Plus, now you have to pay him more than what Eli makes.


Under the new CBA you'd pay the overall #1 pick far FAR less than you are currently paying Eli. Andrew Luck is playing on a 4 year contract for 22 million (with an option for year 5), Eli's last deal was 7 years for 107 million.
Holy shit Lou  
baadbill : 10/26/2013 7:48 pm : link
Is that really you posting that?

I think I've been a pretty objective observer of the Giants over the past 50 years or so that I've been an avid fan ... and I have to say I think Manning is the least to blame for the current record than anyone in the organization.

No running game means:
1. Manning has been faced with an incredible amount of third and 10+ situations.
2. Play action - a QB's best friend - is out the window.

Add to that an OL that has been porous so that every time he goes back to throw the ball, he is under immediate pressure.

So, what has he done? He has decided to force throws that will almost certainly have very high percentage risk of interception. Why? Most QB would just take the sack or throw the ball out of bounds and go three and out and punt. Why hasn't Manning done that? Because the team has been behind and forcing the high risk throws has been the only way to get back into the game. Take the sack or throwing the ball out of bounds may help his stats - and most QBs would undoubtedly do that so they wouldn't be taking the heat Manning is taking now - but in my book, such QBs are losers. Manning doesn't give a rat's ass about statistics. He just wants to win. And if that means setting a record for the most turnovers, then so be it.

Eli Manning is not the problem this year. He's playing differently because he has to play differently this year. Just like Phil Simms, the kid is putting the team first ahead of what is best for him personally.
Puzzling year  
Spyder : 10/26/2013 8:36 pm : link
for sure, but with hindsight 20/20, so easy to predict.

As already pointed out, the big failure is the OL, and the big bucks given to Baas and Snee. Injuries killed us there, and that's always hard to predict. On the other hand, Snee is getting up there, and Baas is clearly brittle.

Also already pointed out is the poor drafting lately, especially the OL. so many misses in the late rounds there. Now even Beatty is looking mediocre, and maybe also another OL miss, only higher this time.

We are horrid on D.Just putrid. But we were bad there last year too, but the pass D is just so pathetic. Seems like we are just snakebit there too, injuries killing us everywhere in the secondary. Stevie Brown was a huge blow. But our corners are injury prone and just not that good, more dfaft misses plus injuries.

And yet...win Sunday and a Dallas loss? 2 games out. bizarre year...
For me the question marks became serious  
mikeygiants : 10/26/2013 8:51 pm : link
when the injuries started piling up.

Another was when Curry retired from football and our opening night LBers were Mark Herzlich and Spencer Paysinger (and Rivers).
No OL destroyed this team  
Steve in South Jersey : 10/26/2013 8:57 pm : link
can't use their weapons. Reese sh#t that bed with the OL.
plenty of us were realistic  
newmike2 : 10/26/2013 9:36 pm : link
after watching the disastrous end of last season, the fact they didn't get any better at the key positions of LBer and TE in the draft, they didn't appear to make key acquisitions in the FA market. On top of that, they didn't have anything good come out in the pre-season at all and the team lacked difference makers on both sides of the ball and they could not replace injured players with anything of similar quality.

I'm no baffled as much as I'm disappointed but seasons like this come around about once every ten years. I'd be even more disappointed if they failed to use the opportunity of a good draft position to address the areas that obviously need it.
RE: Here's a link to the pre-season prediction thread I started...  
baadbill : 10/26/2013 9:42 pm : link
In comment 11301156 SB said:
Quote:
...before game 1. Lot's of realistic predictions on it, a lot fewer predicted SB.

Link


Forgot about that thread... reading back I see my 7-9 prediction was wildly overly optimistic.
Don't feel bad if you're baffled about the awful season.  
Reese's Pieces : 10/26/2013 9:51 pm : link
Think about how baffled Jerry Reese and his countdown clock must feel. And he gets paid a ton of money to NOT be baffled.
Warning signs everywhere.  
Red Dog : 10/26/2013 10:13 pm : link
Warning sign number one: They shit the bed down the stretch last season. Got their asses kicked in multiple games that they could have and should have won. Looked like they didn't care any more. Not a good sign at all going forward.

Warning sign number two: No meaningful coaching changes. Special Teams still suck, Defense still alternately warm and cold, and weak against the pass.

Warning sign number three: They didn't do a lot to improve the team in veteran free agency other than shore up the obvioulsly weak DT position, and actually got weaker in some other areas, like OT, RB, and WR. A cap issue as much as anything.

Warning sign number four: They blew two more draft choices on a QB who isn't going to play but is going to occupy another uniform on the sidelines. Yet another "developmental" guy who won't contribute this year or likely in the near future.

Warning sign number five: They had a terrible exhibition season. Played like an expansion team - or worse.

Warning sign number six: Injuries and suspensions everywhere you looked, which prohibited building continuity.

Warning sign number seven: The quality of Eli's play has declined significantly since Mike Sullivan left as QB coach.

Warning sign number eight: Nicks starts to act like he wants out. Good players usually don't want out of good teams.

Warning sign number nine: Brewer can't play OT in the NFL. Yet another important draft miss. He should have taken the ORT job this year. Instead the third year man can't even get on the field with the starters.

Warning sign number ten: Jernigan fails to step up AGAIN as a WR or a punt returner. Start sizing him up for his bust.

Warning sign number eleven: Age. Many key members of this team are getting near the end of their career. That's not necessarily a problem, but it does mean that injuries are sometimes more frequent and usually take longer to heal.

Warning sign number twelve: Complacency. Two time Super Bowl winners have their rings. Other than gaining individual honors, they don't have anything left to prove.

Warning sign number thirteen: Declining competitiveness of the whole division. It's no longer the best in the league, it's more like the worst. And the GIANTS still can't beat the Iggles. Or the Redskins. Or much of anybody else, it seems.

Warning sign number fourteen: The law of averages. They were going to lose a game in Dallas sooner or later.

Warning sign number fifteen: The cyclic nature of the NFL. Even good teams go through bad stretches and the GIANTS haven't had a really bad stretch since Eli's rookie year.

It's not that baffling  
jcn56 : 10/26/2013 11:03 pm : link
In the link that SB provided, I posted that I expected more (outside the playoffs looking in, 7-9 to 9-7 depending on injuries). The problem is, the injuries have been worse than expected and the play from players who aren't injured dropped off even faster.

Snee was supposedly hurt all last season and would be improved after his surgery. But he wasn't, and was promptly re-injured. Baas couldn't stay on the field. Tuck and Kiwi are both shells of their former selves (in the case of Kiwi, not all that great in the first place). Webster joined the perpetually wounded, Hosley hasn't been able to stay on the field and don't even get me started at RB.

Some of that is just shit luck, and some of it is the wheels falling off the core a year faster than the FO had expected. I can't blame them for trying to make one last run with it, but obviously it didn't work. Time to retool for the second half of Eli's career and say goodbye to a number of guys who brought us two rings.
Red Dog...  
M.S. : 10/27/2013 8:45 am : link
...you're dead on with that. Well played, sir.
I don't think the issue is talent  
UberAlias : 10/27/2013 9:20 am : link
Outside of oline. Snee dropped off the face of the earth and Baas was nevr healthy. Those situations and JPP are the difference between the team now and one that could have been very good, along with Eli playing poorly.

If this team had a decent oline, the O could have been very good, but as it is now, it's too much of a handicap. Defensively, they have played well except lack of pass rush and JPP being a shell of himself is really hurting.

There are a lot of injuries hurting them -in the secondary, RB...
Coughlin's teams have been WILDLY inconsistent for ten years.  
old timer : 10/27/2013 9:29 am : link
If you been watching there is no way to tell what the freak will happen.
Red Dog  
JonC : 10/27/2013 9:39 am : link
Well done, you've nailed it.
Red Dog, chaneling Emperor Palpatine...  
Klaatu : 10/27/2013 9:59 am : link
The Giants are "paying the price for their lack of vision."
The OL, the OL, the OL  
BillT : 10/27/2013 11:43 am : link
Not the only problem but the main one and foreseen buy many commentators and posters. We had an OL consisting of Beatty, Boothe, Baas (injured), Snee (injured) and Diehl (!). They added a rookie and went to war. Baas ans Snee collapsed the OL fell apart and the offense with it. All you really need to know.
Your head coach  
mrvax : 10/27/2013 11:46 am : link
took a HUGE risk in booking 3 players as Oline starters who's careers were over or nearly so. Snee, Baas and Diehl. Never planned on using the young guys. Expected the dying 3 to play like they did 3-4 years ago.

In years past we could cover up the flaws  
Patrick77 : 10/27/2013 11:49 am : link
When you essentailly have no interior offensive line, no running backs, no linebackers, no tight ends, and don't adjust your coaching philosphy or gameplan this is what happens. It doens't matter that the Giants essentially have 3 #1 receivers if Eli doesn't have time, they run the wrong routes, or the routes don't get shortened so he can get the ball off before being hit.

If the Giants even had an average interior offensive line play they likely have a few more wins thus far. Even with the flawed schemes, sloppy play, and some glaring talent holes.
BlueLou - I'm surprised you'd take that course of action with Eli.  
Optimus-NY : 10/28/2013 1:23 am : link
You know this team pretty well. If there was an Andrew Luck type of QB in the draft I'd understand, but Bridgewater is no Luck. Eli can get us back to where we want to go again. Just gotta protect him, and help him.
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