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Did anyone notice that Matt McCants

MikeN in Ottawa : 10/29/2013 11:27 am
is starting at RT for Oakland? Yet, he couldn't even stay on our practice roster.

Is there something wrong with our Pro Personnel staff?

Having asked that, I can't say I have evaluated how he is playing.
Um, it's the Raiders  
Greg from LI : 10/29/2013 11:28 am : link
Not exactly the gold standard for talent evaluation.
Article I posted on Saturday  
Defenderdawg : 10/29/2013 11:29 am : link
Not sure how he did Sunday
Link - ( New Window )
Hey Panther Fans  
Semipro Lineman : 10/29/2013 11:29 am : link
Have you noticed that the Giants are starting a guy we traded a 7th round pick for? A 7th round pick for a starter? What the hell is wrong with our football staff? Damn it guys
Only started because Tony Pashos got hurt  
jeff57 : 10/29/2013 11:30 am : link
.
Sunday  
Defenderdawg : 10/29/2013 11:32 am : link
"Right tackle Matt McCants more than held his own with Pittsburgh left outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley. Woodley, the Steelers' leader with five sacks, had no tackles and one quarterback hit.

McCants said Sunday he had room for improvement and noted the Steelers had attempted only one blitz on his side in the game.

"Every time we put him in there he continues to do some good things,'' Allen said.

McCants has started the last three games in place of the injured Tony Pashos (hip)."

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Um, it's the Raiders  
Victor in CT : 10/29/2013 11:32 am : link
In comment 11308471 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Not exactly the gold standard for talent evaluation.


Whaddya mean Greg? JR loves ex-Raiders like Myers and Murphy! Maybe now he will bring back McCants and give him a shot since he has "proven" himself in that winning atmosphere in Oakland :-) !!! JUST WIN BABY!
Depends on  
AnishPatel : 10/29/2013 11:33 am : link
their pass protection scheme. Maybe they can work with him in regards to what they do, as opposed to what we do. Maybe it's easier in their system due to a QB who can rush the ball. So basically run blocking more as opposed to the BOB 7 step concepts we run here.

So it all depends. That's why I love football. Someone may not fit our scheme but take a Ryan Grant and stick in a ZBS and you get good production.
Raiders are 3-4.  
spike : 10/29/2013 11:34 am : link
Just sayin.

Thanks to TC who hates rookies
McCants  
AcidTest : 10/29/2013 11:39 am : link
was terrible while he was here, but that was mostly at LT IIRC. He also came out of a small school, UAB. But it would be ironic if we, with all our OL problems, let go a promising O lineman because we were playing him at the wrong position.
RE: Raiders are 3-4.  
Victor in CT : 10/29/2013 11:43 am : link
In comment 11308487 spike said:
Quote:
Just sayin.

Thanks to TC who hates rookies


Yes he hates rookies like Pugh this year, Hill last year, Ross, Smith, Bradshaw, Alford in 2007, KP in 2008, Eli, Snee and Gibril Wilson in 2004, Phillips, TT an Manningham in 2008, Matt Dodge in 2010 (OOPS!). I could go on. Sometimes rookies don't play because they aren't ready to play. And when you are expected to contend you don't force feed them. If you want to see rookies play before their time find a perennial non contender like the Jaguars to watch.
Yip, Giants would be leading the NFCE...  
okiegiant : 10/29/2013 11:43 am : link
if Coughlin would just play some rookies.

I watched a few minutes late in the Oak/Pitt game. I didn't notice McCants was playing. I thought(and I wasn't honestly paying attention)they were going to blow the lead.
Being on a bad team doesn't mean you play  
pjcas18 : 10/29/2013 11:43 am : link
against bad teams. So just because he may be starting for a bad team (who really isn't as bad as people on here might think) doesn't make the player bad.

McCants is rated higher than any Giants offensive lineman by PFF.

This is just tackles...the Giants have no tackles, guards, or centers rated higher.
So he can start for a 3-4 team  
NY-Fan : 10/29/2013 11:44 am : link
But not a 2-6 team. Oh well.
Probably not a popular view on this board but....  
damdevs : 10/29/2013 11:46 am : link
I think this speaks volumes about our coaching and the lack of development with our OL.
The difference between left and right tackle  
Semipro Lineman : 10/29/2013 11:47 am : link
isn't that vast so if he showed anything at one position then he would have been kept. Basically, he was one of the guys cut because of a numbers game since the team needed to keep extra RB's (brown's injury) and QB's (Nassib) plus his own play. He didn't outperform Brewer, Mosley or Diehl and Cordle was needed as interior line insurance.

RE: Raiders are 3-4.  
arcarsenal : 10/29/2013 11:51 am : link
In comment 11308487 spike said:
Quote:
Just sayin.

Thanks to TC who hates rookies


What does their defense have to do with McCants?
Hard to criticize our OL coaching when  
Emil : 10/29/2013 11:52 am : link
We have seen Boothe, Seubert, Diehl, and now Cordle develop over the years. Maybe cutting McCants was a mistake, but he was a turnstile in two preasons.
If only we had drafted Cordy Glenn  
Mike in NY : 10/29/2013 11:54 am : link
Who was BPA on my board over David Wilson
Glenn  
AcidTest : 10/29/2013 11:56 am : link
was apparently BPA for the Giants as well, but they were concerned about his conditioning and weight. Many teams had similar concerns. The problem was taking Wilson, a RB. Trading down and getting Osemele would have been a better option.
Keeping Snee and Baas on the roster  
oipolloi : 10/29/2013 11:57 am : link
Two wasted spaces. Somebody had to be let go. In this case, it was McCants.

Giants really have to get better at learning when to cut bait on old, injured players. The restructures given to Baas and Snee were absurd. I'm a big fan of Reese. But he was willfully blind with some veterans making big money.

There may have been nepotism involved with Snee. But the GM has to step up and do what he thinks is right. Coughlin might not have liked it but he would have accepted it. Mara also has to take a hit for not intervening.


Snee  
stretch234 : 10/29/2013 12:03 pm : link
The Snee contract was initially signed when he was 1 of the top G's in the game. What was the alternative with Snee. You always back load long term contracts
I don't think anyone is complaining  
pjcas18 : 10/29/2013 12:07 pm : link
about the initial snee contract, but the multiple restructures - which make him un-cuttable.

veteran long-term contracts are normally backloaded, but those backloaded years are not normally guaranteed.

which is why most players look at guaranteed $$$ and money paid in the first few years of a deal to evaluate it.

Snee has a high dead cap space # (4.25M), but a 7M cap savings.
RE: Glenn  
jeff57 : 10/29/2013 12:10 pm : link
In comment 11308564 AcidTest said:
Quote:
was apparently BPA for the Giants as well, but they were concerned about his conditioning and weight. Many teams had similar concerns. The problem was taking Wilson, a RB. Trading down and getting Osemele would have been a better option.


Or Silatoulu. Or the LB option in Lavonte David or Bobby Wagner.
RE: Hard to criticize our OL coaching when  
damdevs : 10/29/2013 12:12 pm : link
In comment 11308547 Emil said:
Quote:
We have seen Boothe, Seubert, Diehl, and now Cordle develop over the years. Maybe cutting McCants was a mistake, but he was a turnstile in two preasons.


Emil you can slice it any way you want, but the reality of it is we've got one of the worst OL in the NFL and our depth is even worse. Our track record in developing OL isn't very good.
McCants played horrible for us  
rasbutant : 10/29/2013 12:12 pm : link
He did not look like he belonged on the football field.
RE: If only we had drafted Cordy Glenn  
rasbutant : 10/29/2013 12:14 pm : link
In comment 11308557 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
Who was BPA on my board over David Wilson


Cordy Glenn was the guy I was hoping for as well. But i did think he was going to be a Guard.

I like Wilson though.
i watched him in the preseason  
GiantNatty : 10/29/2013 12:15 pm : link
and he was BAD- almost comical at time (except it wasn't funny because he was gonna get someone killed). that he's starting in Oakland is more a credit to his getting it together than it is a knock on the coaching staff for thinking he never would...
damdevs  
Emil : 10/29/2013 12:16 pm : link
What are you talking about...?the OL has solid until late last year. The Giants have taken mid-round to late round draft picks and turned them into contributors. No one is going to say the last two years have been good, but you can't fault to coaches for Snee breaking down and Baas always being on IR. Not exactly how they planned it. Sure they need to reinvest in youth on the OL, no one argues that, but no one predicted the OL was going to impload all at the same time. McCants was hardly worth keeping around, he would get destroyed in 4th quarter preseason games. When he was here he was terrible. Can't fault the coaches for parting ways.
You can second  
pjcas18 : 10/29/2013 12:23 pm : link
guess draft shit all day long every year for every team - or even not second guess, but have a player you preferred who has done well.

that being said, 2012 wasn't the issue for the Giants. It was 2011.

The Patriots were not supposed to sit at #17. That's classic Pats trade down spot. If the Pats traded down like most of the planet expected them to, the Giants have Nate Solder and the OL has a much different complexion.

And this isn't a knock on Prince, but the Giants should have landed Nate Solder in that draft.
pjacs  
Emil : 10/29/2013 12:28 pm : link
Very rational take, good point. Sometimes the opportunities do not present themselves. You have to take some calculated risks in some areas.
Guy Whimper  
mar_ar : 10/29/2013 12:29 pm : link
has been starting games for years (even started this week for pittsburgh), doesnt mean the giants made a mistake in cutting him.
RE: damdevs  
damdevs : 10/29/2013 12:31 pm : link
In comment 11308623 Emil said:
Quote:
What are you talking about...?the OL has solid until late last year. The Giants have taken mid-round to late round draft picks and turned them into contributors. No one is going to say the last two years have been good, but you can't fault to coaches for Snee breaking down and Baas always being on IR. Not exactly how they planned it. Sure they need to reinvest in youth on the OL, no one argues that, but no one predicted the OL was going to impload all at the same time. McCants was hardly worth keeping around, he would get destroyed in 4th quarter preseason games. When he was here he was terrible. Can't fault the coaches for parting ways.


Emil....WHO?
The responsibility is on the player to earn his spot  
JonC : 10/29/2013 12:32 pm : link
McCants was essentially terrible for NYG during his brief tenure. He was a low asset draft pick who failed to earn a roster spot here and was let go.

How is that a failure of pro personnel?

It's not.
RE: Keeping Snee and Baas on the roster  
mar_ar : 10/29/2013 12:32 pm : link
In comment 11308566 oipolloi said:
Quote:
Giants really have to get better at learning when to cut bait on old, injured players. The restructures given to Baas and Snee were absurd. I'm a big fan of Reese. But he was willfully blind with some veterans making big money.



i have long had this complaint about this regime. i dont know if its a willful blindness due to loyalty or poor valuation, but this needs to end. the highest paid players on this team outside of eli are snee, baas, tuck, webster and rolle. only rolle should have been brought back this year.
And to be clear  
pjcas18 : 10/29/2013 12:38 pm : link
I'm not saying Reese and the Giants made a mistake cutting McCants (or Whimper for that matter)

I'm simply saying McCants starting for the Raiders doesn't make him a bad player.
damdevs  
Emil : 10/29/2013 12:41 pm : link
Ok here you go.

Boothe - FA (cast off from Raiders)

Cordle - UDFA currently staring and holding his own. Say what you want, but at least he can get on the field, unlike Baas.

David Diehl - drafted in the 5th round, on the downside but has been a valuable member of two championship lines

Rich Seubert - UDFA, really came on under the Coughlin coaching staff

Adam Koets 5th rd - Was progressing until he got hurt.

What I find funny is the fan perspective is if the Giants draft a late round lineman or pick one up via rookie FA, at he becomes a player then that shows good coaching, but when the Giants draft OL in the top 3 rounds, and the player pans out, then that is not a sign of good coaching and development as much as the talent of the player. How do we know the coaching staff hasn't had a significant hand in developing Beatty (who had question marks coming out of UCONN), Snee (turned into an All-pro), and now Pugh who is turning in a fine rookie season. Just not fair to criticize the coaches because McCants got cut, Brewer is still not cracking the lin-up, and Snee/Baas are breaking down.
McCants seemed like a good kid, tuba and all.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/29/2013 1:06 pm : link
I'm glad he's making a career for himself. Too bad it didn't happen here.
RE: damdevs  
damdevs : 10/29/2013 1:19 pm : link


In comment 11308711 Emil said:
Quote:
Ok here you go.

Boothe - FA (cast off from Raiders)

Cordle - UDFA currently staring and holding his own. Say what you want, but at least he can get on the field, unlike Baas.

David Diehl - drafted in the 5th round, on the downside but has been a valuable member of two championship lines

Rich Seubert - UDFA, really came on under the Coughlin coaching staff

Adam Koets 5th rd - Was progressing until he got hurt.

What I find funny is the fan perspective is if the Giants draft a late round lineman or pick one up via rookie FA, at he becomes a player then that shows good coaching, but when the Giants draft OL in the top 3 rounds, and the player pans out, then that is not a sign of good coaching and development as much as the talent of the player. How do we know the coaching staff hasn't had a significant hand in developing Beatty (who had question marks coming out of UCONN), Snee (turned into an All-pro), and now Pugh who is turning in a fine rookie season. Just not fair to criticize the coaches because McCants got cut, Brewer is still not cracking the lin-up, and Snee/Baas are breaking down.


So again...who have we really developed on the OL that is a top 10 OL in his position or an above average OL in the NFL?

2007 - Zero drafted - FA Boothe was signed from Oak who started 16 games as a rookie for them. Is an average player at best and is probably our most consistent OL.

2008 - Zero drafted or FA stuck on the team.

2009 - Beatty - as a 2nd round pick is a below average LT in the NFL. He really hasn't lived up to or developed into a top notch LT.
No FA

2010 - Mitch Petrus - 5th rounder - remember this gem?

FA - Cordle - PS squad guy who is has somehow found a way to stick on the roster after all the injuries. Cordle hasn't developed in 3 plus season and is a far below average Center in the NFL.

2011 - Brewer - 4th round. still collecting a pay check even with all of the injuries. Has he developed?
No FA

2012 - McCants - 6th round - Gmen coaching staff couldn't get anything out of him, but yet has started 3 games for Oak and held his own. To me this raises some flags...

Mosley - 4th round - still a work in progress, but if he can't crack this lineup then that speaks volumes.

2013- Pugh 1st round- I think he's an average RT right now, but I think if he hits the weight room he's got the talent to an above average RT for a long time.

Herman - 7th round - I think he's a PS player and will have a long road to make the 53 man roster.

As far as Snee goes the guy was a first round talent who was going to be a Pro Bowl player regardless who his position coach was. Koets? common man on man...please.
damdevs is basically right.  
Red Dog : 10/29/2013 1:28 pm : link
Considering that McCants is starting for the Raiders, and that Guy Whimper is still in the league, I have been thinking about this a lot lately.

What OLs have they developed since Diehl, who has been here for his whole career and is done, and Seubert who is now long gone?

Beatty the mediocrity and Raider cast-off Boothe are the only others that have started except in emergencies.

I have been somewhat of a Cordle defender, but it is clear that despite being a veteran, the former OFA STILL lacks the strength and skills to be an every day player. (Note that Boothe and Diehl are making the line calls instead of him.)

There is a long string of flops from those mid and later round picks including Drew Strogny (2004 D7), Koets (2007 D6 who never amounted to anything more than a uniform filler), Petrus (2010 D5), Brewer (2011 D4), and McCants (2012 D6). The jury is still out on Mosley and 2013 D6 Herman. They haven't had a hit on any of these mid and later round OL picks since Diehl was drafted many years ago.

On the FA side, there are far, far too many to list, but they include journeymen like ex-Bear Chris White, ex-Redskin Selvish Capers, ex-Browns camper Bryant Browing, ex-Bill Michael Jasper, Ike Ndukwe, James Meredith, and current PS player Stephen Goodin who was an NYG OFA.

Now is this normal? Well, sort of. Any team is going to do cattle calls for OLs and most of them won't make it.

The GIANTS problem is that almost none of them have made it in the last half dozen years, and almost none isn't good enough.

Something is wrong and must be fixed or this team is doomed to last place.
damdevs is basically right.  
Red Dog : 10/29/2013 1:31 pm : link
Considering that McCants is starting for the Raiders, and that Guy Whimper is still in the league, I have been thinking about this a lot lately.

What OLs have they developed since Diehl, who has been here for his whole career and is done, and Seubert who is now long gone?

Beatty the mediocrity and Raider cast-off Boothe are the only others that have started except in emergencies.

I have been somewhat of a Cordle defender, but it is clear that despite being a veteran, the former OFA STILL lacks the strength and skills to be an every day player. (Note that Boothe and Diehl are making the line calls instead of him.)

There is a long string of flops from those mid and later round picks including Drew Strogny (2004 D7), Koets (2007 D6 who never amounted to anything more than a uniform filler), Petrus (2010 D5), Brewer (2011 D4), and McCants (2012 D6). The jury is still out on Mosley and 2013 D6 Herman. They haven't had a hit on any of these mid and later round OL picks since Diehl was drafted many years ago.

On the FA side, there are far, far too many to list, but they include journeymen like ex-Bear Chris White, ex-Redskin Selvish Capers, ex-Browns camper Bryant Browing, ex-Bill Michael Jasper, Ike Ndukwe, James Meredith, and current PS player Stephen Goodin who was an NYG OFA.

Now is this normal? Well, sort of. Any team is going to do cattle calls for OLs and most of them won't make it.

The GIANTS problem is that almost none of them have made it in the last half dozen years, and almost none isn't good enough.

Something is wrong and must be fixed or this team is doomed to last place.
outside of McCants & Whipmer  
Rory : 10/29/2013 1:41 pm : link
the only real guys I can remember who didnt develop with this coaching staff but did with another team is Ryan Clark and maybe Visanthe Shiancoe.

As a matter a fact most players that Giants have let go have done nothing for their next team.
He was waived on 8/31.  
therealmf : 10/29/2013 3:41 pm : link
Did the Raiders develop him in 8 weeks? Maybe he is having a few good games. Maybe the proverbial "light" came on. Maybe unemployment made him motivated. But to say the Raders developed him in 8 weeks is too much.
People are making way too big a deal about the fact that McCants  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/29/2013 3:42 pm : link
is "starting" on an injury-ravaged line for a bad team.

Cordle is "starting" for the giants. It doesn't make him good.
RE: People are making way too big a deal about the fact that McCants  
damdevs : 10/29/2013 4:39 pm : link
In comment 11309170 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
is "starting" on an injury-ravaged line for a bad team.

Cordle is "starting" for the giants. It doesn't make him good.


TTH I'm certainly not making a big deal about McCants. I was just simply pointing out and feel that something is wrong in the Giants process/thinking in regards to our OL. When you have a guy you release go play for another team and he doesn't embarrass himself, yet, we can't get out of our own way on the OL then it just begs you to ask questions. I'm also smart enough to realize that McCants hasn't been developed in 8 short weeks either.

Not sure what it is and I know it's not just one thing, but our OL is a mess right now. Yes we've had injuries, but our play, depth and development hasn't been very good lately.
Unless you think Eli Manning can run  
HomerJones45 : 10/29/2013 4:52 pm : link
like Pryor, I wouldn't be shedding any tears for McCants not playing for the Giants. I watched the game, and McCants was not good. The only thing that saved him was Pryor's legs.
and PFF is full of crap  
HomerJones45 : 10/29/2013 4:54 pm : link
if they don't have Pugh rated higher than McCants. What a rag.
Homer  
TommyWiseau : 10/29/2013 5:32 pm : link
Why are they full of it? Have you watched every Raiders game and graded McCants?
damdev  
Emil : 10/29/2013 5:46 pm : link
I think your criteria is way to high and you sell some players way short. If you want to criticize JR for not drafting enough OL, sure I can't disagree. Should have gone OL higher and more often. We are seeing the issues manifest themselves now. My issue with your comment is the blame you lay on the coaches for not developing players. They have developed plenty of players and done a lot with very little (talent wise and numbers wise). I'm not going to blame the coaches for the current state of the OL. The GM, sure, you can make a case for that, but you can't call out the coaching staff because they couldn't develop McCants into a starter.
Emil....  
damdevs : 10/29/2013 6:05 pm : link
it's not soley on the coaches, but they have some ownership in this mess.

JR doesn't get a pass either and neither do the coaches. You can't run that many guys through the program and not hit on a couple of guys.

Whether JR, and the scouting dept for that matter, is reaching for guys and hoping that the coaches can make chicken salad out of chicken shit I'm not sure. But whatever formula they're using isnt working.

I agree we missed on  
AnishPatel : 10/29/2013 6:46 pm : link
a bunch of OL. Koets got hurt, Petrus is gone, Whimper is gone, Herman we will see what he can do. In the mean time, we have Cordle, Brewer and Mosley. Pugh is a rookie and DD, Snee and Baas are on their last legs. Over all, we need to step it up.
damdevs  
Emil : 10/29/2013 7:37 pm : link
I think that is where you and I disagree. You feel as though the coaches should have had a better track record with the players they did have while I think the track record is acceptable.

We agree that more players should have been drafted.
Giants are 2-6...does that mean  
Geeman : 10/29/2013 9:07 pm : link
Pugh sucks??
such stupid commentary around here sometimes...smh
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