Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

SI names Matt McCants 1 of 8 standout rookies

Bluenatic : 11/1/2013 12:45 pm
Good thing the Giants let him walk for nothing. It's not like we could use reinforcements along the O-line or anything:

Quote:
8. Matt McCants, OT, Raiders: It took five weeks and a Tony Pashos injury for the UAB product to crack the lineup, but he stepped right in and did his job. McCants played every down in the Raiders' Week 5 win over San Diego and did so again Sunday against Pittsburgh. He's yet to allow a sack this season in three extended outings. The Raiders' O-line looked doomed when Jared Veldheer went down with an injury. McCants has helped keep the ship from sinking.

SI link - ( New Window )
He really looked horrifyingly bad last year  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/1/2013 12:46 pm : link
and not much better now, but the Giants were uncharacteristically quick in cutting him loose.
Well,  
Simms11 : 11/1/2013 12:48 pm : link
you have to ask yourself why he's doing so much better there? Is it blocking schemes, better experience, coaching? Obviously we thought enough of teh guy to draft him and keep him around another year. He was terrible in pre-season here.....what changed?
He is not a rookie  
csh2z : 11/1/2013 12:50 pm : link
is he?
Article is complete BS  
Scyber : 11/1/2013 12:50 pm : link
He is not a rookie.
I can't blame the Giants for cutting him.  
Vin_Cuccs : 11/1/2013 12:51 pm : link
The guy liked downright dreadful in two pre-seasons against guys who aren't currently on NFL rosters.
`  
rdt288 : 11/1/2013 12:52 pm : link
Guess they let just anyone write articles these days. How can this author not know he is not a rookie?
It's SI  
pjcas18 : 11/1/2013 12:54 pm : link
if not for doctors and dentists offices and barbershops they wouldn't even have a magazine anymore.
Sometimes a guy needs a kick in the butt  
81_Great_Dane : 11/1/2013 12:57 pm : link
to "get it." Maybe that happened with McCants.
RE: It's SI  
jcn56 : 11/1/2013 12:57 pm : link
In comment 11314664 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
if not for doctors and dentists offices and barbershops they wouldn't even have a magazine anymore.


Doesn't that pretty much sum up that entire industry?
The evidence is  
TMS : 11/1/2013 12:58 pm : link
mounting that we missed the boat on McCants. Do not know how or why but it is an indictment of someones judgement of player talent and how to develop it.
i haven't seen enough of the raiders  
odunde : 11/1/2013 12:58 pm : link
to know what i am talking about, but the 0 sacks allowed stat doesn't say much when you have a qb who can move like pryor, does it?
My wife  
pjcas18 : 11/1/2013 12:58 pm : link
still buys people magazine when she's in the super market. otherwise I guess.
So the Giants made a decision on his career in the league  
Geeman : 11/1/2013 12:59 pm : link
based off just 2 preseason games?
Let's face it, they were wrong and they mis evaluated McCants. Kid is proving he can play tackle in this league and this one is on the Giant coaching staff, it happens.
It's a shame especially since that was truly a need position for this team. Lots of players have 2 bad preseason games, some players have 2 bad years and still get opportunities to develop. I'm not going to make an excuse for the staff on this one.
Reason is simple...  
Jimmy Googs : 11/1/2013 1:00 pm : link
the Giant offense was too complicated for McCants.

.  
arcarsenal : 11/1/2013 1:01 pm : link
McCants couldn't master the complex zone blocking scheme here.
Geeman  
Jay on the Island : 11/1/2013 1:03 pm : link
McCants was god awful during the preseason during his rookie season as well it wasn't just two preseason games this year.
its no secret  
japanhead : 11/1/2013 1:10 pm : link
the coaching staff, especially on the offensive side of the ball, requires a lot of players from a mental standpoint. it's entirely possible mccants is doing less thinking and just using his physical skills. total speculation of course but i liked mccants coming out of college..
coaching staff  
SBlue46 : 11/1/2013 1:11 pm : link
sucks
What  
AcidTest : 11/1/2013 1:11 pm : link
irony! We blow one draft pick and FA OL signing after another, and then ditch the one OL who looks like he can play. No question McCants looked horrifyingly bad here during his two years, but why is he suddenly doing so well in Oakland?

Sure the "light" may have suddenly gone on for him, but that would be quite a dramatic improvement in such a short period of time, especially given how bad he was just recently. I also don't think it's our coaches. They are well respected.

More than likely it was the scheme. It was probably, guess what, too complicated. He was more than likely getting beat because he was hesitating for a split second. That's all it takes in the NFL.

I'm certainly not saying McCants is an All Pro, and he is playing in front of an extremely mobile QB. But the folks that really analyze this stuff can certainly take Pryor's mobility into account when analyzing McCants's performance.

His quick turnaround from horror to above average RT looks like more evidence that our scheme is just too complicated, and not just for the WRs. It makes you wonder if this is why Brewer still hasn't gotten on the field. We've also seen it at the RB position.

How much talent are we wasting at every position because we stubbornly refuse to simplify the offense?
LOL  
M in CT : 11/1/2013 1:14 pm : link
the scheme was too complicated? for an offensive lineman?

wow.
That game next week will be interesting  
old man : 11/1/2013 1:15 pm : link
If he holds up against our D, the 'we messed up on McCants' thread will run wild; if we cut through him like melted butter, the 'And that was why we cut him' thread will run wild.
Whatever success he has/had, has to be the scheme( and likely that 'wake-up call' comment).
He has started two games this year  
Defenderdawg : 11/1/2013 1:16 pm : link
Not saying he might be productive but he was initially third on the Raiders depth chart before injuries struck, started a game then went back to the bench before last week.

We have seen Whimper and Meredith have effective games against the Giants and return to the bench.
i can't tell  
M in CT : 11/1/2013 1:17 pm : link
if you guys saying "it's the scheme" are kidding or not. i guess i haven't been here long enough to pick up on the inside jokes.

but, if on the off chance that you're serious, you are overlooking about two dozen potential reasons why a player can look good on one team after looking bad on another.
big deal  
Spark Em Up 22 : 11/1/2013 1:17 pm : link
we need a lot more help than McCants would have been able to provide. Sometimes you let an NFL caliber player go, it happens.
Acid...  
Hades07 : 11/1/2013 1:18 pm : link
..I can't say for sure that what you say there is accurate. But based on all the evidence available to us as fans, it sure seems to me you are on the mark there.
Sometimes  
AnishPatel : 11/1/2013 1:18 pm : link
a player does better in a different system with different pass pro schemes. We run a lot of 5 and 7 step stuff. For the Raiders the pass pro schemes differ because they have a mobile QB. You can get away with 3 step drop BOB pass pro schemes and if a player fails, the QB takes off. You can design running schemes where the QB can take off and run. It helps the OL player a lot in that regard.

It's a matter of him being a better fit there than here. We saw this with Ryan Grant. He couldn't crack our squad but was productive for the Packers.

That's the good part about football. You can take a piece of a puzzle and it may not fit your team, but it could be a helpful piece for another team.
It's a shame this web site  
Gene : 11/1/2013 1:20 pm : link
doesn't archive past threads. Would've been interesting.
RE: LOL  
Hades07 : 11/1/2013 1:20 pm : link
In comment 11314720 M in CT said:
Quote:
the scheme was too complicated? for an offensive lineman?

wow.
Can I assume by this that you have no understanding of offensive line play? Even the "simple" schemes require a fairly intelligent individual to play at a competent level. There is no scheme that is "hit the guy in front of you."
RE: big deal  
Jimmy Googs : 11/1/2013 1:21 pm : link
In comment 11314728 Spark Em Up 22 said:
Quote:
we need a lot more help than McCants would have been able to provide. Sometimes you let an NFL caliber player go, it happens.



Uh, no. If (and that's a big if) he is even decent, we need him on the roster.
I'm not a coach or a professional, but he looked  
BigBlueBuff : 11/1/2013 1:23 pm : link
awful in the games he played for the Giants. Whether it was the scheme, the coaching, or the guys around him I remember him looking terrible.

Good for him for making the Giants look bad (but good for the Giants scouts who recommended him.)
Hades  
M in CT : 11/1/2013 1:29 pm : link
no, you can't assume that.

but i won't get in the way of your ridiculous assumptions that are based on no evidence, whatsoever.

tell me, what exactly is so complicated about our blocking scheme and why wasn't McCants able to grasp it? and while you're at it, please, enlighten us as to why Pat Flaherty, one of the most well-respected OL coaches in the entire league, was unable to import this complicated scheme to Matt McCants. don't talk in generalities. give us Xs and Os, coach.

or do you just criticize the team based on your instinct, and without any solid evidence to point to?
If you saw him against Pittsburgh  
HomerJones45 : 11/1/2013 1:30 pm : link
we are not missing a thing. Pryor makes up for a lot of slip-ups. Pugh is better and it's not even close.
M in CT :  
Rob_MTL : 11/1/2013 1:50 pm : link
100% in agreement.

:)
The only thing we know for sure  
nomad1986 : 11/1/2013 1:53 pm : link
is that if he was on the Giants roster he wouldn't get a chance to play unless he was the only guy left. Coughlin would start Diehl over him for the next 10 years.
i think  
M in CT : 11/1/2013 1:53 pm : link
from now on, when i'm down, when i'm feeling blue, but if i can't really put my finger on why, and if someone asks me "hey M, what's wrong?" my go-to answer will be:

"it's the scheme."

that seems to be the answer to every problem around here.
How can McCants be a rookie sensation this year when he  
fredgbrown : 11/1/2013 2:18 pm : link
was drafted by the Giants last year? I could careless if he played or not last year.
No way this article is going to be recieved well on this board.  
Curtis in VA : 11/1/2013 2:20 pm : link
God forbid we try to be objective about anything.

Sports opinions are no different than politics and religion in some respects.
Curtis ...  
Beez : 11/1/2013 2:29 pm : link

Gotta wonder when they say "oustanding" after two starts ... and "rookie" after being a 6th-round pick in 2012.

o-for-2 before you even read the first sentence of the article.
McCants never made the Giants roster  
Mason : 11/1/2013 2:30 pm : link
Therefore, he is indeed a rookie in the NFL. Shocked that was not understood. Position coaches living on past work, nah can't be true. Ross can only draft these guys, he shouldn't be expected to develop them too.
Writer edited the story, removing McCants  
Bluenatic : 11/1/2013 2:31 pm : link
.
Bwa-ha-ha-ha !  
PEEJ : 11/1/2013 2:37 pm : link
he must read BBI
RE: Hades  
Hades07 : 11/1/2013 2:51 pm : link
In comment 11314759 M in CT said:
Quote:
no, you can't assume that.

but i won't get in the way of your ridiculous assumptions that are based on no evidence, whatsoever.

tell me, what exactly is so complicated about our blocking scheme and why wasn't McCants able to grasp it? and while you're at it, please, enlighten us as to why Pat Flaherty, one of the most well-respected OL coaches in the entire league, was unable to import this complicated scheme to Matt McCants. don't talk in generalities. give us Xs and Os, coach.

or do you just criticize the team based on your instinct, and without any solid evidence to point to?
made no criticisms of the scheme, nor claimed the Giants scheme is any more complicated than the raiders. You're comment made it sound like playing OL could not be complicated. Which is a notion falsely believed by many football fans.
So, was McCants just "God Awful"?  
Emlen'sGremlins : 11/1/2013 3:03 pm : link
Or was he "Diehl Awful"?
I am not sure if this post was serious. McCants was a rookie  
fredgbrown : 11/1/2013 3:16 pm : link
last year and that unfortunately is the only time he will be a rookie. That is why the article was edited and his name taking down.

[quote]McCants never made the Giants roster
Mason : 2:30 pm : link : reply

Therefore, he is indeed a rookie in the NFL. Shocked that was not understood. Position coaches living on past work, nah can't be true. Ross can only draft these guys, he shouldn't be expected to develop them too.[quote]
Giants have picked up plenty of guys  
chris r : 11/1/2013 3:18 pm : link
from other teams that excel with them. I'm not going to get all worked up over one going the other way, although another competent OL would be nice.
Regarding complicated schemes for OL  
snumber6 : 11/1/2013 3:32 pm : link
Brad Benson has a copy of his playbook on display at his dealership ... I was amazed at the number of variations a given play had for the OL blocking assignments ... 2 pages worth at least ... for the simple run play ... Couldn't turn the page to see if more ... I believe all schemes are complicated ...

The myth of the big dumb OL is just that - a myth ...
They have a lot on their plate to remember ...
He was literally the worst player I've seen in a preseason game.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 11/1/2013 3:44 pm : link
Good for him that he's made something of himself.
snumber6  
M in CT : 11/1/2013 3:48 pm : link
i'm sure the blocking schemes are plenty sophisticated, after all, this is the NFL. but if someone wants to make the argument that McCants wasn't good here because of the scheme, then don't you think he should be able to identify specific aspects of the scheme or blocking assignments that McCants didn't get?

you can't simply shout "it's the scheme!" every time something doesn't work out. it's lunacy.
and Mason  
M in CT : 11/1/2013 3:49 pm : link
you may want to revisit that post. you're not a rookie the first year you crack the 53 man roster. you're a rookie the year you're drafted.
I was his harshest critic...  
PeterS : 11/1/2013 3:52 pm : link
said he should have gone back to playing in the school band. Glad he's having success but let's be clear - nothing he did here warranted making the team, ours or anyone other!
RE: snumber6  
AnishPatel : 11/1/2013 4:32 pm : link
In comment 11314999 M in CT said:
Quote:
i'm sure the blocking schemes are plenty sophisticated, after all, this is the NFL. but if someone wants to make the argument that McCants wasn't good here because of the scheme, then don't you think he should be able to identify specific aspects of the scheme or blocking assignments that McCants didn't get?

you can't simply shout "it's the scheme!" every time something doesn't work out. it's lunacy.



I am at work and typing in my phone. But it could be many things. It could be bad technique. We could be asking too much h of the player. We run a lot of 5 and 7 step passing concepts. If his technique and footwork is off that could lead to it. The other issue could be the mental part. There are many 4-3 fronts. So every passing play and running play has to be drawn up with all these fronts. Perhaps that mental aspect of digesting it and being able to recall it in the game while not fucking up your technique was too my h for him.
The pass pro for us and the Raiders differ due to offensive scheme. They don't need to ask much because if the play goes to shit Pryor can take it and run. For us , on a 5 and 7 step drop, if the play goes to shit Eli is fucked. Also, you can build up a players confidence with run blocking via Ran or QB designed run. Factor in quick concept passing plays you don't need to block longer.

So it all depends. I don't examine Raiders games like I do Giants games but the easiest way is to record both and figure out what kinds of pass pro the Raiders use religiously and compare it to ours.
Anish  
M in CT : 11/1/2013 4:41 pm : link
i'm with you all the way.

but it could also be that after McCants got cut by the Giants, he decided to apply himself in the off-season training program, clean up his diet, change up his workout regimen, etc., to save his pro career.

it could be that he hated playing in New York because he didn't like the big city.

it could be that a girl broke his heart and he was down in the dumps while he was here.

it could be any number of things, including any or all of the things you mentioned or any of the things i mentioned.

i just don't get the rush to blame "the scheme" any time a player leaves and performs well somewhere else or any time we have a losing streak. if someone wants to blame the scheme, then at least connect the dots for us. and if the scheme were always to blame, then it'd be a rather easy fix, wouldn't you say?
It could be that.  
AnishPatel : 11/1/2013 4:48 pm : link
However, that's internal, personal stuff, we as fans wouldn't know. Sure that's real life stuff. But in the end the team will cut a player based the criteria I mentioned. Could be be a product of personal life shit? Sure. However, it will manifest itself in the stuff I said. The team will make their decisions based on football stuff. That's the stuff we can see. The personal stuff we can't examine because everyone has real life shit. I know when I talk football I examine it from a football point of view. I don't know personal stuff of a player so why even bother addressing that? It sure can be an issue but we don't know.
Look on the bright side  
Bill in UT : 11/1/2013 4:49 pm : link
The guys we kept instead of him must really be studs.
He is playing well for Oakland  
djstat : 11/1/2013 4:57 pm : link
If its a miss get over it. IT happens
our backup  
area junc : 11/1/2013 5:03 pm : link
offensive linemen always look like garbage in the preseason....nobody ever challenges for a starting spot

makes u wonder
One point  
Semipro Lineman : 11/1/2013 5:12 pm : link
I haven't seen in this discusion is where would McCants play for the Giants? Has he been better than Beatty or Pugh? I don't think so. So that leaves the two guard spots and while I can understand believing that anyone can outplay Dielh, I'm not sure the Giants saw anything to make them feel that way.


P.S. If your solution to the first question is to move Pugh inside for McCants then chances are you are either silly or high
Semipro  
M in CT : 11/1/2013 5:26 pm : link
just to play devil's advocate (and to be clear, i am NOT suggesting we should have done this), but if we had kept McCants and had him plugged in as our future RT, perhaps we draft someone other than Pugh in the 1st round this past year.

but again, that's silliness because we have the benefit of hindsight and we have absolutely no clue why McCants didn't work out for us here.
I wouldn't get too crazy about this  
sjnyfan : 11/1/2013 6:08 pm : link
Granted, without watching any games, good for McCants to be mentioned one way or the other because I was a harsh critic right from the moment we drafted him. I thought he looked out of place dating back to the Senior Bowl. He does have a very good O-Line coach in Tony Sparano who is also the Asst. Head Coach in Oakland, but to be frank, it's been two starts. He started the season as the 3rd string RT. His first game of serious action was the Chiefs game where KC had 10 sacks (later redueced to 9). When McCants came in he was the last active offensive lineman.

Having a mobile QB like Pryor I'm sure helps, maybe he needed a fresh start or just got it together but two starts is exactly that. He may have a good third one considering it's the Eagles but next week will be very telling, not to mention the rest of the season.
Cameron Wake, Ryan Clark and now McCants  
oipolloi : 11/1/2013 7:59 pm : link
Every staff makes mistakes, but Coughlin has definitely lost more than he has found when it comes to young free agents cut by other teams. Boothe? Is that it? Must be somebody I'm forgetting.
Or  
djm : 11/1/2013 8:24 pm : link
It could just be that McCants is one or those shitty practice players that plays well when the bullets are flying for real. You guys are kidding with the shitty NYG coaching comments right? Raiders...lol.

Oip  
djm : 11/1/2013 8:26 pm : link
Victor Cruz?

There are others.
Oi  
pjcas18 : 11/1/2013 8:29 pm : link
Derrick Ward - drafted by the Jets, 1000 yard rusher with NYG
Stevie Brown  
PEEJ : 11/1/2013 8:30 pm : link
.
Are you guys kidding me?  
Geeman : 11/1/2013 8:53 pm : link
You think it's really as easy as hit the guy in front of you?...LMAO
I remember interviews with Ohara a few years and he talked about how these guys were given exams during the week by the OC. They have to study intensely and stay on top of those things every week. Soebody else probably has more info on that, but I know I read articles on that.
Acid could be right on this, a second of hesitation or indecision is all it takes to look bad or slow in the NFL.
M in CT  
snumber6 : 11/1/2013 9:17 pm : link
I agree with you ...I'm sure Oakland's schemes are just as complicated as ours give or take a little ... If he were stupid he wouldn't function there either ... I think he just got religion and applied himself ... last chance and all that ...
Standout, based on a couple of games?  
Doomster : 11/2/2013 9:53 am : link
Hope he starts against the Giants....
He was god awful  
Joey in VA : 11/2/2013 10:28 am : link
Here. He was absolutely tossed around like a rag doll in our preseason games and showed absolutely fuck all. Being competent on a shitty team that has been shitty for a long time is great, good for McCants. We kept most likely, Cordle, Brewer and Diehl over him. Cordle has acclimated well and handled center better and better with playing time. Brewer has seen a lot more short yardage action in recent weeks and done well and say what you want about Diehl, we need a veteran next to Cordle and Pugh to help them along mentally. Diehl has been marginally effective physically, but the line has settled down a bit with him in there.

With no Snee or Baas and a rookie at RT, having another rookie who had not shown a thing in there to protect your franchise QB would have been death. Don't blame the Giants here, blame McCants for playing like a shitheel until he was handed a job.
Tuck and JPP  
spike : 11/2/2013 11:40 am : link
are eagerly waiting to see how good McCants is.
Anish is spot on fellas  
Optimus-NY : 11/2/2013 8:25 pm : link
Great posts Anish. Thank you.
Back to the Corner