for that price, even if he's only a rental.
for negotiations with him moving forward.
was totally wrong about the trade. I certainly hope he can stay healthy, for his sake and ours, but the trade is more than justified just by what he's done the last two games. Assuming he stays healthy, I sure hope we can resign him. He has said he wants to stay, presumably at least partially because he can be the MIKE for the Giants.
but Beason for a late rounder was foolish
One of the worst GM's in the league. The nerve of the guy to pull a steal like this on top of the Super Bowls on his resume. Overrated! - BBI
complaining about this trade? Yeah, they look dumb now.
1-Those lamenting losing a 7th rounder
2-Those believing he was damaged goods(me)
and it had little to do with #1 or #2.
it was mostly because unless he's re-signed or signed to an extension it's meaningless.
Whoopee we can watch solid MLB play, better than we've seen since 2007 for 10 (probably) meaningless games.
Of course I could be wrong and I have no issue admitting if I'm wrong. Two things can happen to make me wrong, #1 is the Giants can pull off a miracle and make the playoffs, #2 is they do whatever this year and then re-sign Beason - which is what I said all along is what is necessary to make this a good trade.
But if Beason turns into Harry Carson for the rest of the year and then goes and signs with someone else after the season while the Giants finish 4 - 12 how is this some magical trade Reese pulled off? I'll answer, it's not, it's pointless.
there was an entire thread essentially devoted to fighting you on the unimportance of losing a 7th..You were adament about NOT giving up the 7th..Now, now, tell the truth, my friend..
since we were expected to be at least an average team, a mid-7th round pick is worthless. There is no discernable value between the 210th pick of the draft and the 225th- ranked players that go undrafted.
expectations for a 7th round pick, it was anything of value for a rental. The fact it was a 7th I said was too much for a rental.
It was a football thread, so it's archived.
I won't change my tune on it.
even if Beason bolts, I think there is value in him playing here. His excellent play would rub off on the younger and less talented linebackers on the team. Even if he isn't mentoring them, they'll see how a very good LB plays the position and reads certain plays.
Also, if Beason is great for the season as a rental and the Giants are still bad in the standings and then Beason bolts, there is still value in that he will serve as a juxtaposition to the crap that we have on our roster.
If Beason shows a big difference in linebacker play, it will show the team and front office hard evidence of the need to improve at linebacker.
Didn't think it really mattered either way. That indifference is heading towards optimism.
that's kind of abstract value though.
there's already been stories about him helping guys like Jaquan Williams
When we made the trade, I assumed he was damaged goods, bc he's way too talented otherwise to be had for a low pick like that. Glad to be wrong so far
the loss of a 7th in comparison was nothing.
Here's hoping for his health.
In comment 11315149
| that's kind of abstract value though.
I don't think it's that abstract, really. If he comes in and shows how much more solid our defense is with a good linebacker and then he bolts, it shows the front office that linebacking is a serious hole we need to fill. It sometimes seems that the Giants team thinks that our LB corps is good enough to compete in this system.
But again, is there really any significant value to a 7th round pick when you can then pick up undrafted players in the open market? Has anyone compared the success rate of 7th round picks with undrafted rookies? The way talent is distributed, I can't imagine that there is a difference between the 215th ranked player and the 230th ranked player.
glad the Giants got him and was delighted about the trade but I also understood the pov that even 7th round draft picks are valuable especially for a rebuilding team with a lot of roster turnover.
Hopefully, the Giants can sign him to a reasonable deal and get back some comp picks as well.
do we get compensation considerations?
I'm pretty confident they will re-sign him. They're going to clear a lot of cap space and be able to do some things with it. They may not be able to keep Nicks but they should be able to hang on to guys like Beason and Linval and bring a few guys in, hopefully a nice interior offensive lineman among them.
sign him and thank the lucky stars for the steal...
how many soon-to-be-free-agents declare their love for playing for a specific team and say they never want to play anywhere else?
that's exactly what you DON'T do if you're looking at free agency and planning on skipping town.
this was a steal on the day the trade was made, it looks like even more of a steal today, and it will be even more of a steal when he re-ups with us. it was a no-brainer all the way.
Their concerns have thankfully been rendered unwarranted. But dumb? Not dumb at all.
of the trade, especially in view of the micro-fracture surgery.
But, Gettlemen was involved so I wondered if he would screw his former colleagues with a sh*t trade. yeah, he has to do what is best for the Panthers, but, it helps to have a few teams you can work with in this league -
A important related question - how far has the micro-fracture surgery procedure evolved?
Those are very good points.
sometimes those picks are valuable when added to another pick
who doesn't contribute to a super bowl "useless"? e.g. Bennett, or Tiki
In any event, hope we can resign Beason.
He had the wherewithall to swing a sweet deal for Beason and he now has an impact MLB which can now lead this defense, if he can't get him to agree to a deal it's on him. I don't think that will be the case though. I thought it was a good deal if it was for a 5th rounder, a 7th was a steal for a player this talented. Can't believe how many here freaked out over the trade, I said then many of those guys would be eating crow, I didn't think he would make this big an impact this quickly though, but I'm estatic he's on board. They'll get the contract squared away after the season. I'm not worried about him leaving at all really. He's a leader now, Giants don't let leader's in there primes walk away.
Its a good trade only if we sign him
There is no question he is an upgrade before the trade.
How did blackburn beat him out?
Obviously he came from the Giants where he knew he would have a very good opportunity to start in the middle again which wasn't going to happen in Carolina since they now have Keuchly. Beason was very respected within that organization and in the Carolina community. They knew it would be a good fit and so it worked out and they got his contract off the books because Carolina was cash strapped too.
Right now, Beason is the biggest FA priority on this team, even more than Nicks and Joseph. Both sides want this to continue and a contract will get worked out.
In comment 11315264
Vegas Steve said:
| Its a good trade only if we sign him
There is no question he is an upgrade before the trade.
How did blackburn beat him out?
Blackburn didn't, Kuechly took over the MLB spot and made Beason expendable. Blackburn is playing the WLB.
Beason is a MLBer. Carolina tried to move him outside and that's just not where he's best suited. Blackburn played every LBer position for the Giants and was better suited at this time to play outside, but to say he beat him out is not really accurate. Beason is far more talented then Blackburn, anyone should be able to see that.
See the Mcnabb trade the Eagles made to the Redskins. The eagles showed respect for all he had did for the team by asking him where he'd like to go and he chose the Skins. I think this was a similar move although Beason didn't know anything until the deal was made.
but I believe I read somewhere that he was actively mentoring some of the younger LBs (Williams I think was specifically mentioned).
I love Blackburn, but any team that has him as a starter has a LB spot they need to upgrade
But it really is difficult to see Blackburn beating Beason for a spot, especially on the outside where athleticism is more important. Maybe he just really needed a change of scenery. Regardless, it's been a steal in the early running and has had a trickle down effect on the rest of the back seven.
reese paid to have beason in for an expensive extended workout/tryout. Get him in see if hes healthy. Even if he doesnt resign I dont look at it as a bad move
generally amount to nothing for every Ahmad Bradshaw there are 30 who dont . Look at the Shockey trade. We got nothing. 5th sixth 7th rounders are special team guys at best and are generally out of the league and don't get a second contract. Take a proven vet anytime. They start They play and know what they are doing. Hillis and Jacobs both have been better than Wilson and dont make mistakes. Hillis gets open and gives Eli a target. Just like Tony Galbreath did when he played here. Late round draft picks are way over rated unless they are used to move up.
that is a great deal from our perspective.
The D has not been as solid since Chase has been here - (ducks) :)
Otherwise trade was a mistake.
Although the voided years complicate Beason's situation somewhat, he is in line to be a UFA at the end of the season. So any contract he signs elsewhere should factor into comp pick calculations for the 2015 Draft Of course, that doesn't mean the Giants will get a pick; it depends who else they lose in 2014, and whom they sign. (The guys most likely to sign significant contracts elsewhere are Nicks and Joseph, but a lot can happen in four months.)
I doubt it will matter. If Beason stays healthy, the Giants are likely to retain him.
the panthers decided to move on from beason at some point months ago.
beason is a MIKE LB that wants the green dot and full command of the D. one voice.
that voice in Carolina is Luke Kuechley's.
it's why i'm critical Giants mgmt. did not trade for Beason sooner: you can't tell me the panthers did not want to trade him if they had blackburn over him. we finally got desperate enough at 0-6 to make the move.
i think we're 4-2 right now, maybe 5-1, if we make this trade before camp!
If the Giants make this a playoff season, big if, beason is one of the reasons why...correct? Would be it still be a waste?
IIRC the Beason trade happened when the Giants were 0 - 4. He missed the game to go 0 - 5, but then played in the loss to the Bears to go 0 - 6 (his best game IMO) and has played since.
So, at 0 - 4 they made it happen.
...and 0-5 when it was consummated. Not 0-6. Besides, you don't know what the Panthers were demanding. Would you be happier if Reese had acquired Beason a week earlier for a fifth-round pick?
With Fish: Looks like a steal. How many of our 7th rounders have been as this good? And LB has been a black hole for this team (things go in and don't come out).
Connor was adequate, but there was nothing behind him.
I still think the organization as a whole was deluded about Mark Herzlich's potential at MIKE. He might have had a chance to contribute as a SAM, but he has never looked like anything but a stiff in the middle. I think that's more on the coaches than the front office. They've had Herzlich since 2011. Anyway, it's water under the bridge.
i would've been thrilled giving up a 5th before camp.....u r talking about a 4 time Pro Bowler. All Pro. not keith rivers.
i am not convinced he was unavailable
infatuated w/our own players which is my point here, i think we messed up by not doing is sooner
but we may still recover
the trade will still have value if it demonstrates to Reese that linebackers have a role in an NFL defense, even though league rules favor the passing game. A few months ago he was interviewed on the FAN and was asked why his drafts do not give priority to linebackers. In response, he challenged the two hosts to name the starting linebackers on the Giants two SB teams. They were not able to. He then asked them to name the starting defensive line and they could. Reese told them that their responses prove that you can win with no-name linebackers, but not with a mediocre defensive line. Maybe Beason has caused him to rethink this position.
"Star Ledger reporting that it was a 7th rounder..."
Was there ever a debate about what Reese gave up for Beason and I just missed it?
Even if we lose Beason in the off-season it's not a total waste. We got 10 good games from a real MLB. He's a team guy and had a big influence over the defensive players. If the younger guys learn from Beason's teaching and leadership, it could help them down the road as players for this team.
I have a good feeling that the Giants will work out a deal with Beason making my point moot.
In comment 11315872
| Reese told them that their responses prove that you can win with no-name linebackers, but not with a mediocre defensive line. Maybe Beason has caused him to rethink this position.
Actually in the Giants case they didn't have mediocre linebackers. They stunk plain and simple. Reese is probably right using mediocre linebackers. Mediocre to me means about average. Not very good and not totally useless. We went from useless to very good at MIKE in 1 day.
WE had garbage incapable of doing the job this year.