and I'm rooting for him to succeed. But I need to see a bigger sample size. There was a time when it looked like Brandon Jennings was the next Iverson.
Christ dude, do you know the logistics of injuries and time off?
It's incredibly weird how hard you are critiquing a guy who just came back. I'd love to see him play better but I'm going to give him 15-20 games before I draw any conclusions.
Christ dude, do you know the logistics of injuries and time off?
It's incredibly weird how hard you are critiquing a guy who just came back. I'd love to see him play better but I'm going to give him 15-20 games before I draw any conclusions.
Wasn't the point of him missing the entire year last year to avoid looking like this? If it was going to take him 15-20 games this year then he should have just played last year.
and they suck in games... because they are ENTIRELY different. its going to take time to get used to NBA REAL game intensity and speed.
good lord he looked great in preseason, and now the real games start, its a huge shift. the team is also getting used to playing with him again. there is certainly a feel out process there too.
Very great to see MCW excel early. Turner is playing great as well and hawes is giving them great spacing. Its early and they have no depth at all, but a really impressive start. MCW might be a perfect compliment to turner especially with a shooting big.
Ok so then he sat out just for fun? The whole time we constantly heard he wasn't coming back until he felt like he could play at the level he's accustomed to. Apparently he's still not there and it's going to take "15-20 games", so why not start the process last year like Shumpert did for example. Shumpert looked like shit for a good 2 months when he came back, but this year he looks to be his old self right out of the gate.
But I wouldn't throw him off the edge just yet. This is his first few games back where defenses are actually trying to stop them. He will come around and be his old self in no time.
that coming back last year and getting his feel back would have been beneficial... it certainly would have. but he didnt, and because of that, it IS going to take time to get up to real nba game speed and confidence.
He sort of reminds me like how he was playing in his rookie season. You can work out and practice all day, but he hasn't played in game speed in a very long time. His court vision and bball IQ have slightly declined, but he will get it back within the next couple of weeks.
Let's also remember Noah, Butler, and Hinrich missed a good part of the preseason. On top of that, This is Rose's first year truly playing with Hinrich and Butler. This team just needs some time to get in sync.
MDJ is struggling a little, but so did Korver. He will eventually pick up the system and be a huge part of our team.
On the bright side, Boozer and TAJ are playing fantastic for the bulls. If they continue this play, they are going to be one tough team to beat down the road.
like hitdog mentioned above. Rose was absolutely killing it in the pre-season. His athleticism is there and his shot looked good. As long as he looks good physically the rest of it will come. IMO, he's going to be killing it within a week. Overanalyzing the first 3 games of an NBA season is insane.
Westbrook back today. 1 Month ahead of schedule. Kevin Durant (.371 FG% and 4.5 TOV over 2 games) has been missing him.
Durant is still an awesome player and MVP of that team, but I love how this little Westbrook absence has allowed people to see how great a player Westbrook really is. It's good for the team because there will be less second guessing about Westbrook taking too many shots or dominating the ball too much.
Durant has more of an impact on Westbrook. His presence spaces the floor and opens up lanes for Westbrook to navigate through. Yes, having the 2nd best player makes life easier for the best player. Earth is round, and the sky is blue.
without Russell Westbrook, I think his numbers would actually be better than they have been in recent seasons. Of course OKC wouldn;t contend for a title and would be a likely first round ouster in the West, but his numbers wouldn't suffer in the least. He'd be like a more efficient 2006 Kobe Bryant.
He would shoot more often and would at most see a very modest efficiency dip. Maybe he goes 48/38/90 rather than 50/40/90 because he has to take on more volume. The guy is still a lethal shooter with a release point you just can;t bother. I don't buy that Westbrook drastically effects his FG%, short sample suggesting otherwise aside. I love Westbrook, and they need him to contend. But just speaking purely statistically, he is not that kind of classic set up man despite making strides here, and takes a lot of shots away from KD. And in the absence of Westbrook, we would see Durant also pile up some assist numbers that he doesn;t currently, just as he showed in last years postseason
3 games in Westbrook's absence at the begining of the year.
And I completely agree with MoM's analysis. Durant would probably score 33 PPG on reasonable efficiency without Westbrook and get bounced in the 1st or second round.
But he's arguably the GOAT off-ball scorer already. He doesn't need the ball in his hands to thrive. Westbrook allows Durant the ability to take it easy and play off the ball and not worry about spending energy worrying too much about creating off the dribble for himself and others.
Durant might be able to survive without Westbrook for stretches in games, because he's capable of spending extra energy for short spans. But over the course of a full season I think he'd really miss Westbrook and we'd see his efficiency stats take a slight dip.
than the most efficient high volume scorer in the game. Westbrook definitely benefits from playing with KD more than KD does from playing with Westbrook. The spotty shot selection and sometimes erratic decision making actually makes KD's numbers suffer. Had they kept Harden, I would not surprised to see KD scoring at a much higher clip. With all that said, Durant is mature enough to understand that Westbrook needs those shot attempts to get going, and that they are a better team when they're both on.
or acquired an equivalent talent after losing him, they would still be in contention and would have survived the financially motivated Harden deal just fine. Last years Thunder team was the best one yet before Westbrook got hurt. Of course it wasn't ideal trading Harden, they would have been better if they kept everyone together. But apparently their ownership didn't have the money to do that
I get that Ibaka provides a pretty important function
on that team by getting rebounds, blocking shots, and playing great help defense, but I would have liked to see OKC keep KD, RW, and JH together. I'd be more interested in getting the 3 best guys rather than 2 best guys and filling a need.
actually had one of the most dominant regular seasons of all time by some advanced stat measures (I'll back that up in the next paragraph, its not hyperbole at all. ALL TIME.). I don;t think there is any doubt they make the finals last year if Westbrook doesn't go down. Whether or not they beat the Heat is another story. The Heat pretty much own them and match up exceedingly well with them, but with Wade being like 65% healthy in last years playoffs its possible
There is a formula called SRS that basically combines strength of schedule and point differential. It's a formula to gauge a teams strength in the regular season. Last year's Thunder not only led the league, but were the 8th best team of all time in this stat. Of the 7 teams in front of them, everyone won the title except for the 72 Bucks. And that's only because they lost to another team on the list (72 Lakers). They ran teams off the floor last season. They almost set a post-merger record for double digit wins, they wound up just 2 behind the '96 Bulls team who won 72 games
This is a wild 1980s era score. 78-66 at half, now 85-74 early 3rd
Otherwise Steph Curry had a triple double tonight. The Cavs top pick Anthony Bennett had another rough night and is 0 for 15 to start the season, that has to be near some sort of record
is off to a crazy good start this year. And early as it is, it seems like hes back to playing normal minutes in Rivers rotation and not being cut back into the low 30s like last year. He's on another level at the moment. Hell of a feed to Jordan for a dunk as im typing this for his 15th assist
30 for 30 tonight: "The Bernie and Ernie Show." Bernard King and Ernie Grunfeld at Tennessee. Among other things, King talks about the racism he experienced there, which he never shared with Grunfeld. Link - ( New Window )
last night. Not sure how much is an improved LAC O vs. a bad Houston D, but they looked way different and way better than they did last year offensively. Could be the additional shooters or the Rivers influence. I still think they need another big to sure up their rotation for the playoffs, but if they play O like that, they're going to be a very good team and a really good team to watch. Plus their broadcast team aren't horrendously awful homers, which puts them way ahead most of the rest of the league
but the refs calling 2 early fouls on both Howard and Harden really changed the game early. Not to take anything away from the Clips who looked great, but I think by the end of the season the Rockets will be right up there with them. They really missed Beverly in this matchup, CP3 will get his against anybody but Bev would've made him work more as possibly the best PG defender in the game.
Clips look improved from last year though, Blake was hitting jumpers. That's the key. If Blake hits jumpers the Clips could be the best team in basketball and a legitimate Championship contender. If Blake bricks his jumpers, the Clippers are nothing more than a 2nd round team. This is a HUGE season in Blake's career.
The PF position is absolutely loaded right now. So many studs around the league.
appeared to be suffering from the "work the new guy" in syndrome offensively at times. There was some awkwardness that you see when a team a new big-time player. That will work itself out over time and I'd expect them to have a fantastic offense.
Their D is still a big question mark though, unless Dwight can recapture his Orlando form and single-handedly carry them on his own. And Harden needs to start trying on defense, that play when JJ blew by him and got to the rim before Harden even moved his feet was as bad as you'll see.
Will be interesting to see what they do with Asik. He's a very valuable player who's pretty redundant for Houston.
a lot of that has to do with the Clippers obviously, but Harden has actually been playing better D early on. JJ Redick abused him last night lol but I have seen Harden improve.
Dwight is also back physically. I'm really not worried about the Rockets D that much, they were playing well before this beatdown last night.
The big question with the Rockets is Asik. What do you do with him. Originally I wanted to trade him for a true PF with outside shooting skills, but I've grown to prefer having Asik on the team. Having him and Dwight gives the Rockets 48 minutes of elite rim protection. That will be huge come playoff time. Plus some of their main competitors out West (Spurs, Clips, Grizz) use two true bigs at the same time often.
I haven't been able to watch much Houston early on this season. I don't think anyone would dispute that if you had Dwight or Asik on the court at any one time, the Rockets would have elite post D. But the question is how they look together and can the Rockets figure out a way to get a stretch 4.
It's just not worth it. Even if Anderson is a better fit next to Dwight, Asik is the much more valuable player as a true Center with elite defense. Plus they have Casspi, Parsons, and Garcia who are all capable of playing a stretch 4 role.
Asik and Dwight have looked ok playing next to each other but they really haven't been doing it a lot. Through 4 games (192 mins), I'd estimate that Asik/Howard have been on the floor together for about 50 of those minutes.
Anderson's a good player, but when in doubt, a legitimate above average starting C is more valuable than an above average PF, especially when their strengths are D and rebounding and shooting respectively.
If he can maintain similar numbers over the course of the year (at least .470 shooting with .390 or higher from 3 pt range), then we're talking about the third best player in the NBA. Roughly, that'd make him an A- guy on O and an A+ guy on D and probably better than KD as a two-way player and right below LBJ.
if Paul George is a better player than Melo this year
if Paul George improved on his O marginally from last year, he'd be a better player than Melo given his D. (I mean there were some games last year where Paul George gave LeBron fits, not to mention the trouble he gave Melo (who was injured, of course).
If Paul George maintains his current play, Melo's not in his stratosphere.
did the worst job of any defender last year on Lebron in the playoffs. Luc Mbah a Moute, Jimmy Butler and Kawhai Leonard all held up better than he did. He's a great defender but he needs to hit the weight room, because right now that matchup gives him fits. Lebrons postgame was probably never as impactful in a playoff series as it was last year against Indy
You're right Joe. Just checked the box scores. I remembered LBJ having monster games 1 and 7, but he played well throughout the series. I was conflating singular moments when George's athleticism and length made outside shooting tough for LBJ with playing good D overall.
That said there were moments during the Knicks series where George was an absolute terror on Melo.
guards him Wednesday, even though I got a feeling he will put Luol on him. Sucks George isnt a SG anymore, because he would probably be the top SG, but barely crack the top 5 SF.
Its going to be war at 7:00 Wednesday Night. Just want to see progression from Derrick. less TOs, better defense, and hit a jumper or two.
And im not the biggest Melo fan. That is subject to change though. Maybe George takes a jump in year 4 similar to the two guys he is often compared to did (Tmac, Pippen). Neither is the perfect comparison, he won't ever be the scorer Tmac is. He won't ever be the classic point forward like Pippen. But he can be some sort of blend of the two
At the moment though, Melo is just that much better offensively that its hard to overlook. And while George is better defensively, perimeter defense isn't as valuable or impactful on team defense as big man D is. Certainly not valuable enough to make up for the significant gap in their ability on offense. Although that gap appears to be closing, its still early
Anthony Davis is the other. I've never driven a bandwagon this hard before. But I think Davis could end up better than either Duncan or KG. Which would make him a GOAT candidate. It's hard to talk with his cock in my mouth but I'm telling you this guy is going to be a legend among legends. If this was the stock market the time to buy stock is right fucking now.
Anthony Davis is the other. I've never driven a bandwagon this hard before. But I think Davis could end up better than either Duncan or KG. Which would make him a GOAT candidate. It's hard to talk with his cock in my mouth but I'm telling you this guy is going to be a legend among legends. If this was the stock market the time to buy stock is right fucking now.
I like it when people make bold statements like these.
I dont agree, but it will be fun to tease us if you are right, or take some jabs when you are wrong.
the only thing I could see derailing his career. He's gotten stronger but he's still a fairly skinny 20 year old kid playing against grown ass men. He also falls down a little too often, kind of D-Wade esque. He needs to get that little issue fixed.
But if he stays healthy, I don't see anything stopping this freight train.
Not saying he's there yet. But he's got a more complete skillset than either KG or Duncan and I think he could easily be better than both of those guys in his prime. Being better than Duncan/KG means you're a GOAT candidate level player.
I don't have him on my fantasy team or anything like that. I didn't even do fantasy basketball this year. I'm not a Kentucky college bball fan and I dislike Calipari. This is a totally unbiased prediction.
We've already established that hes clearly better than the worst case comparison painted by some of his detractors during his draft process... He's no Marcus Camby. Not to take anything away from Camby who was a fine player. But Anthony Davis at 20 is better than he ever was. Much more gifted shooter already.
His weird background probably helped his skillset in a ton of ways, he was like a 6'0" guard and then sprung about 10 inches in 18 months (maybe not exact, but its something similar to that). This isn't a big man who came to basketball because he was big. This is a guy who formed the foundation of his skillset when he was an average sized PG and then had an insane growth spurt. You can easily see that influence on his game
who's basically a 20-10 player with less than one full NBA season and one college season under his belt. And this is without full physical development and with more feel for the offensive side of the game than Dwight ever had. I always felt that a lot of the critics who thought AD could only at best be a second banana were way off. They might still be right, but I doubt it.
Junior year HS: No name Guard prospect with limited future
Senior year HS: Becomes #1 overall prospect in 6 month span due to growth spurt
Frosh yr College: Wins National Player of the Year, Final 4 MVP + title, #1 statistical offensive player in nation, #1 statistical defensive player in nation
Rookie NBA: Best PER for teenager in NBA history despite battling injuries
2nd yr NBA: Should finish around 18/10 on 50+ FG% and 80+ FT% with all world D as long as he stays healthy
...
...
...
7th yr NBA: yep
was it really that much better than his 08 season when he had a better TS% and eFG%? He also had a better TS% in 06. And in terms of raw stats, he scored more points per game in 07.
The growth spurt happened even faster than i thought
8 inches in one year. I imagine all 6'10" ish sized guys all had a crazy spurt somewhere along the way in a condensed time frame. But I have a tough time thinking the majority of them weren't bigger than 6'2" as late as their high school junior year. It's a crazy background
Robinson was even more of a physical freak than Davis. Outside of Lebron, Shaq, and Wilt it's tough to think of a better pure athlete who played in the league than Robinson. But Davis has a more diverse and complete skillset than Robinson.
gave Melo a much more mature game last year than ever before. He may have put up similar looking stats on the surface in Denver, but he has never had a season on the level of 2013 before. Remains to be seen if it was a one year blip or if it's a real trend. Because the better shooting from downtown and better passing are tangible improved skills, I tend to believe it's not a blip in the radar but that Melo just got better.
is a tremendous talent and yes... this season he's looked every bit the part, but I'd settle down comparing him to a legend like Duncan. I can see the reason why based on talent, though.
but now is the most impressive time to do it if you're right. Anthony Davis at the moment is a hella talented 2nd year player who didn;t even win ROY, and has put together a nice three games to start his 2nd season. If you're calling your shot with him right now, and you're right, thats crazy impressive. Its one thing to like him, its another to go that far and throw around names like Duncan
"he has never had a season on the level of 2013 before"
Again, he's had seasons where he shot better, got to the line more, and rebounded better. His teams also matched or exceeded last year's win total 2 times. You mention he got better shooting the 3, but he shot a similar % from 3 in 2011 and 2009. Only thing that changed last year was he shot more of them. None of this screams "career year" to me.
What year would you say was better than 2013? You're naming random years where he was better in a select category here or there, but in totality I think 2013 is clearly his best. Not in a trounce-every-other-season-by-a-landslide kinda way like Elton Brand in 2006 or anything. But still pretty inarguably his best season
(which it may have been) and his "career season by far" are two different things. He's a star in this league because of his prowess as an offensive player - and he's had seasons where he shot the ball better, got to the line more, and his teams had similar success. I don't just don't see where last year was this big outlier for him as a player.
Just got an e-mail from my college saying that they are offering our school a "special" 20$ tickets for the Nets-Jazz game. I hate the Nets because of Pierce and Garnett, but I think Prokhorov is the best owner in the NBA and hope he manages to get a solid Brooklyn fanbase within the next few years.
than what was his best? People may want to talk about 09 because the team made a deeper conference final run, but that was Melo's worst regular season since he became Melo
volume of what? His usage was it's highest last year (35.6), but he's had 2 years of 33+. He also had one season of more shots and points per game. The one big uptick was in threes attempted per game, but as stated before he's been at a similar percentage in 2 previous years.
like PER and win shares per 48, 2013 blows every other Melo season out of the water. Those are the two advanced stats i pay the most attention to, and they are admittedly flawed. PER doesn't take into account defense, so it probably artificially inflates all of Melo's seasons equally. It's not like he was some defensive stopper in Denver. And win shares if anything underrate the impact of a franchise player (There is no way Lebron was only worth 18-20 wins to those Cav teams, and no way Melo was only worth 9.5 for last years Knicks)
its not like Dana Barros 1995 or anything. Or Elton Brand 2006 like i mentioned. Its not like 2013 just completely shits on every other year. Its rare for that to occur in an nba career trajectory anyway. That happens in baseball and football all the time though
For all the hype that Melo has had over his career, this is a guy that only finished in the Top 10 of the MVP vote once in his career before 2013 despite making the playoffs every single year of his career. This is a guy who advanced past the 1st round only once despite having pretty damn talented teams around him (not a T-Mac or KG situation where they were surrounded by crap). When Melo was traded with the Knicks, most people viewed him as somewhere between the 10th-15th best player in the league.
There's a reason why the league suddenly voted Melo 3rd in the MVP vote and why he finally broke the Top 10 in PER in emphatic fashion by finishing 4th. Sure part of that had to do with down years from certain superstars, but the majority of it had to do with Melo developing a much more team oriented game.
His stats don't even tell the whole story. Melo's passing was so much better last year than any other year before. He's a guy who was a Barkley-like pound the rock over and over again player who took 10 seconds before making decisions on whether to shoot or pass. Last year with the Knicks everything was quick with Melo. He made decisions really fast and he probably led the league in hockey assists last year. The Knicks' 3pt shooting barrage had a lot to do with Melo's decision making. With previous versions of Melo, the Knicks offense doesn't have nearly the year it had last year.
His stats don't even tell the whole story. Melo's passing was so much better last year than any other year before. He's a guy who was a Barkley-like pound the rock over and over again player who took 10 seconds before making decisions on whether to shoot or pass. Last year with the Knicks everything was quick with Melo. He made decisions really fast and he probably led the league in hockey assists last year. The Knicks' 3pt shooting barrage had a lot to do with Melo's decision making. With previous versions of Melo, the Knicks offense doesn't have nearly the year it had last year.
I'm a little surprised that there isn't a hockey assist stat anywhere at this point for basketball. I really want to see where Melo ranked last year. Melo still has this stigma of not being selfish/not a good passer, and this stat would put a lot of that to rest IMO.
He's so awesome and I respect him so much. He's simply a badass. Just a straight up serial killer on the court.
I have a little bit more trouble saying Davis will be better than Duncan than I do Davis being better than KG. Because Duncan's low post game was so diverse and creative and dominant. Garnett had a good low post game but it wasn't anything special like Duncan's.
I don't know if Davis can develop that Duncan-like low post game, I don't think we will. But he is a much better PnR player. And he does have low post skills because of his great touch near the hoop. Plus the big reason I'd say his ceiling trumps Duncan is because he is a better shooter already. Duncan is a great player but his jumper is a little inconsistent and led to many low efficiency games for him. You can look at his FT shooting over his career and see all the ups and downs. Career .693 FT shooter.
Davis has a .767 career FT mark so far and is 19/20 from the line this year while making a ton of outside jumpers with good form. He's closer to KG as a shooter than he is Duncan. Except he's already a much better finisher and PnR player than KG ever was.
I'll chill with the Davis talk for now and let it play out. But I just think so highly of him and his future.
A running NBA thread, similar to the P90X threads. where we just talk about random, general stuff throughout the league.
Lebron's biggest game of the year thusfar, 35 pts 8 rebs 8 ast on 13/20 FG
Paul George with another encouraging night and the Pacers are 4-0. 31 Pts, 10 Reb, 4 Ast on 12/18
Monta Ellis's is ballin for the Mavs this year. Maybe being with a solid organization on a team with vet leadership rubs off.
Brook Lopez 27 pts in 25 minutes in a Nets blowout win. It's early but KG looks like crap early this season, hes admitted it himself. Only played 14 minutes tonight, dont know if he got hurt or what
Anthony Davis 17 pts 11 reb and 5 blks. Rough shooting night (5/14).
Eric Bledsoe had an excellent game for the Suns. I love seeing him get a shot to run his own team now. Entering tonight he was averaging 22 pts and 9 ast, shooting the ball poorly (40%), but going 10 for 12 from the floor tonight will do a lot to boost that.
I've ever seen. This is James Harden vs. Clippers. I really haven't seen worse than this. Sometimes he was just standing their like he was waiting on line at Wal Mart. link - ( New Window )
Most of it is just simple see your man and the ball, basketball defense 101. Shit you learn the first time you play organized basketball when you're 8. It's not like he was getting roasted off the dribble.
Year after year, teams win with good defense and specifically their best players playing, or at least attempting to play, good defense. If you want to win, you got to buy in defensively. There's really no way around that, but apparently Harden doesn't get that.
He's not going to be making any all defensive teams this year, but even by his standards that was an atypical and uncommon effort. It's early in the season, guys conditioning isn't up to par yet, it was a fast paced game, he looked like he was buying breathers on some of those defensive possessions.
A lot of young big scorers don't have their "come to jesus" moment on the defensive end of the floor yet when they're Harden's age. The ones who do were fortunate to be brought up in a defensive culture, which Mchale obviously hasn't cultivated yet in Houston. Some never have that moment. Some try but are inherently limited by their athleticism or frame.
Given how good Harden is offensively, he doesn't need to be an all nba lockdown defender to still have massive value and for the Rockets to contend. Plenty of teams are good defensively with a suspect perimeter defender or two getting heavy minutes for them. But he can't be having breakdowns within the team structure where guys are just running free off the ball because he's doing god knows what
but when's the last championship team led by a player who was apathetic on defense? Celtics and Bird? I don't remember Bird as a defender.
Harden doesn't have to be prime Artest, but you got to show your team, which outside Asik, Howard and Beverely are pretty lousy defenders, that you, as the teams best player, are committed to defense and therefore winning.
But I'll also quote Jeff Van Gundy when he often likes to state team defense is about two things above all. Coaching and rim protection.
It's about the culture the coach sets, you either have a defensive culture or you don't. And they certainly have the rim protection with a healthy Dwight. Big man defense is just much more important than perimeter defense. Dwight Howard is more impactful to a successful team D than Jordan, Lebron, Pippen, go through your list of best perimeter defenders. Those guys can help limit one player, Dwight Howard can take an entire offense out of the paint.
If they';re not top 10 defensively theres a problem with McHale
I dont expect a W at Indiana. But I am going to hope for some progression from some of their players. Derrick obviously has to play and get better. Hopefully a few less turnovers and a few more Jumpers made.
But curious to see how Deng/Butler guard George, who is all-world right now. And Hibbert/Noah should be a fun matchup as well.
I don't particularly enjoy watching Indiana or Chicago, but I am looking forward to seeing them play each other. This should be a really good rivalry this year and for the next few years, with potential for playoff-like games in the regular season.
Based on last night, I'd say that Utah is a 1st-pick contender that hasn't gotten enough recognition - they're horrible. Hayward and Kanter are pretty good offensively, but they've got a lot of bad players getting major minutes. And Kanter got absolutely destroyed by Lopez on the block - not sure if he's that bad defensively or Brook just had a really good game.
has looked all year. In the pre-season and the first couple of games he looked improved from last year. He just didn't look like he was even trying. A lot of people have trouble with the JJ Redick types who run all over the floor off the ball. It's tough to ask Harden to be a 25 PPG scorer who also averages 5+ APG and dominates offensively to also chase around a guy like Redick all game long. Especially early in the season when you're likely to get tired more easily. He played really lazy D in that game but he has been improving so I'll look at it like a blip in the radar for now. He still has a lot of room to improve though, he'll never be a good defender but he can be average if he balances out the energy he spends on the two sides of the floor.
could develop into a sweet rivalry. It has all the makings. Geographic proximity, a similar team culture and identity. It's been somewhat of a sleeping Giant for two successful franchises over the past 20+ years that has never really come to fruition.
The Bulls were the team of the 90s, Indiana had an excellent run as an Eastern power throughout the decade. Yet they only met in the playoffs once, the 98 series where Indy almost pulled off the upset. Just flukey the way it worked out that way. They met in 2011 again but the Pacers were just a sub .500 8 seed just getting a program off the ground, not nearly yet in the position they are today.
I'd love to see these teams meet over 7 games in the spring.
Did anyone see the thing about Wiggins last night?
Coach Self benched him for a portion of the game and afterward stated it was because he didn't feel Wiggins "brought it" effort wise. It's not a big deal, but it does echo some of the other stuff we've read from anonymous scouts and execs on him. Sort of floats through games, doesn';t always assert himself etc..
Tuesday they play Duke on ESPN. That's my first crack at him
but I get a feeling he's overhyped. I've never heard anything great about him other than his athleticism, and he got beat up head to head against the second best HS player. Again, I'm no expert on him, but I have a feeling he's going to end up being looked on as really overhyped.
had a 30-21 game last night. I haven't seen enough Magic games since he began breaking out late last year, but every time you look at a boxscore hes putting up a big line.
Wiggins' combo of first step + vertical + length is unheard of
I'm the biggest T-Mac fan on this site and even I'll tell you that T-Mac didn't have the quickness of Wiggins and also had a vertical a couple of inches shorter than Wiggins too. And T-Mac's the guy he's being compared too recently, but physically he should be ahead of even T-Mac in his prime.
He's definitely being hyped more for his physical tools than his overall game. He's a guy who barely shot above 60% from the line in HS. He really needs to work on his shooting. But his physical tools are easily the best we've seen from a wing player since LeBron. He really needs to improve his shooting and apparently his 2 way effort. But all the tools are there. I'm just not so sure that Bill Self was the right guy for him to go play under. I've always felt Bill Self was the Les Miles of college bball. Both a bit of a compliment and insult.
had a 30-21 game last night. I haven't seen enough Magic games since he began breaking out late last year, but every time you look at a boxscore hes putting up a big line.
I watched in on my computer. He dominated. Clips couldnt throw it in the ocean though. Reddick was off and Blake shot nothing but jumpers.
I predicted this would be my fun team to watch this year. They have done nothing to disappoint so far.
its alarming. It's still early but wow. No one expected him to be prime KG and he hasn't been in years, but he has been despicably bad. He was still a reasonably valuable player as recently as last season. This has to be the worst 5 game stretch in his career (or at least since he broke out after entering the league as a teen)
to have at least 30 pts 10 rebs and 5 blks. He is off to a crazy start. If he keeps doing what hes doing for another few months, we might have to start calling him a top 5-6 player right now
of people likely not understanding the scenario... the guy is on a minutes watch, missed the preseason, and they are feeling eachother out. look at the minutes per game of each player on the nets. they are playing 11 guys trying to get a sense of what works. AK played 11 minutes last night, pierce sat out the entire 4th quarter, they are babying KG.
Looking at box scores is great and all, and KG has been brutal missing his 15 footers, but good lord... have some understanding of what is going on before judging deron so far this year. and frankly the "imagine if melo" or comparing every net scenario to "what if the knicks"... good lord... makes me want to puke.
the nets arent trying to be a 1 man band... so he is not going to have numbers... likely good numbers for him end of year will be 16 points and 8 assists... the only player likely to have impressive scoring numbers will be lopez, and he is playing 27 minutes a game so far as well.
the subbing pattern last night was just awful... and at the end of the game they had the "who should we go to look" with awful movement and spacing, that is indicative of a team feeling eachther out with new players + new coach.
they also have struggld against quick backcourt teams... which lucky for them is more the bottom barrel east conference... not the top teams who they match up better with
but lets be real here. Deron williams era with the Nets to date is massively underwhelming, forget about just this season. He and Carmelo Anthony came here one day apart, and like a lot of people I thought D-Will was the better acquisition at the time. That looks foolish now, because his game has totally fallen off, call it injuries, call it whatever.
The Nets acquired a top 3-4 PG, and he hasn't looked like that for any prolonged stretch other than the 2nd half of last season. And he backed that up with an underwhelming playoff series that his team had no business losing. A series where he was at certain moments played to a standstill by Kirk Hinrich and had a lesser impact than Nate Robinson
I bring up Melo vs. Deron because they play in the same market and Melo has always gotten a ton of shit for certain things while Deron kind of goes under the radar. Part of it has to do with the Knicks being bigger than the Nets. But that's why I pointed it out, it's a little unfair to me as a person living in NY to see how much more shit Melo gets. They were rated as equals with a lot of NBA experts saying Deron > Melo when the trades happened. So far Melo has played at a higher level.
I know Deron had ankle issues that held him out of the pre-season, but since he's always banged up you can't just ignore the injury and assume he'll be back to All-Star form in a week or two. Especially since he has been so inconsistent recently.
He had an amazing 2nd half last year despite a so-so playoff series, I thought he'd be able to carry that momentum into the start of this season. This little ankle issue has made sure that won't happen.
The bottomline is that despite all the roster moves and Brook's emergence into a very good player, this team is only going to go as far as Deron Williams takes them. Biggest year of his career so far.
They acquired a 2nd team all NBA player. A guy who many would even argue was the best PG in the NBA (even though he was never better than CP3, many high profile people would put their name on that claim, including Mark Jackson when he was leading the national telecasts for ABC)
with the bulk of what people are saying in terms of the stint with the nets not being what was expected, and being a general disappointment. Most of that has been injuries... which is just unfortunate. the 2nd half of last season he was excellent, he got hurt this offseason + the change in the composition of the team. essentially with MANY new faces and a new offense he didnt even get a preseason.
i think its beyond stupid to evaluate his season at this point. I agree its the biggest year of his career so far. I also feel that this team wont be playing elite basketball until they realize the offense should run through deron and brook and the rest of the guys are compliments... but that is yet to happen.
And Melo 100% gets too much crap here, but that has nothing to do with deron. and linking it is just silly. he has had a competent supporting cast and been healthy for half of a season during this stint... and he was excellent. the first round of the playoffs were an epic failure, but lets see how it evolves this year.
What's the deal with the Rockets scapegoating/freezing out
which is why Blake had a pretty decent look even though Howard contested it. And Lin supposedly didn't run the right plays in crunch time or something. Howard, Harden, and McHale were all angry at Lin. Howard and Harden both supposedly yelled at Lin in the locker room.
The leadership on the Rockets was a ? at the start of the year and remains a ? now. Howard is not a leader. Harden has limited experience as a leader. McHale has won 2 playoff games in his head coaching career. Leadership and experience might come back to bite them in the playoffs.
But I also think this is an overhyped situation because of the names involved. Dwight Howard and Jeremy Lin. Any story is going to be overhyped if it involves one of those two, this story involved both of them. I guarantee you that the Miami Heat Big 3 rip into Chalmers behind the scenes. It's ridiculous how much they yell at Chalmers on the court, they treat him like a bitch. Sometimes star players just get on their teammates, especially if it's an inexperienced PG who has to run the team.
Dwight and Jeremy have built a nice connection in the PnR game with each other, their on court chemistry offensively has been good. Even if Dwight's people are leaking "we want a better PG" rumors (if they even are), Lin's been good enough.
are going to be a weird team to analyze this season because they're so balanced. They've been pretty bad thus far, so it makes some sense to look for problems and assign some blame. Even if they were winning though, it would be easy to envision games or even multi-game stretches where certain big-name players put up modest (or even bad) stats).
Right now the only consistent offensive force is Lopez, who has been fantastic. Everyone else dips in and out. Pierce would be 2nd and he's been pretty good. Deron does need to make more of an impact either through scoring or creating. The rest of the guys are going to be in and out of games, almost operating like huge name, overqualified role players who might score 18 one night and 6 the next.
Even after watching almost all of the games, I'm a little surprised to see how bad Garnett's #s are. He seems like he's doing better than that - maybe it's just because as a fan you like having him on the team, looking cool in the uniform, giving high fives, being vocal, etc. Offensively, he's basically been a jump shooter - I'd bet there aren't many players in the league who have a higher % of their shots as 18-21 ft jumpers than KG this year. And obviously he's not hitting enough to be effective. Plus, they're really, really limiting his minutes - he barely played against Utah once the Nets got a big lead and he didn't even play most of OT yesterday, which is very rare for big-name players, even older guys on minutes limits.
They've played one good game out of 5 (Miami). The Utah game was just a complete talent mismatch. They can't continue to lose these road games against mediocre opponents. But it's 5 games and there have been some good things out there, so I'm not ready to change my pre-season opinions just yet
Ive been taking advantage of the NBA league pass free preview, so i haven't been forcefed the Nets as a viewing option yet until now.
Indiana tonight. Indy 6-0, putting up beyond unfathomable defensive numbers (opponents shooting 37% and only allowing 90 pts per 100 possessions, 84 per game) with Paul George averaging over 25 a game (though coming off a couple rough shooting nights off a very efficient start).
Possible small sample overreaction, but I'm completely buying them as having a good shot at the 1 seed and a legitimate threat to beat Miami - not in an upset, but as the actual better team.
The way they're playing right now, Miami would need epic LeBron games and really good shooting to beat Indiana. The Pacers defense is incredible and now that Hibbert is allowed to jump into players as long as he keeps his arms relatively straight it has become very difficult to score on them. Great job of branding at the defensive end with the whole "verticality" thing by Hibbert/Indiana. Obviously, it's very early though.
this is an entirely different team if Bargnani can provide quality minutes at both the 4 and the 5. I'm not expecting that last night was a baseline (obviously), but it seems clear that he came into camp still feeling the aftermath of the pneumonia, and unsure of how to assert himself on a new team.
If he can go around 15 minutes a night as the back-up center when Chandler returns, and maybe 15-20 minutes at the 4, he is going to create some serious matchup problems.
That also gives Woodson the option of going bigger or smaller based upon matchups. Then, the team's considerable depth at the 1-3 begins to have an impact. I have real faith that a healthy JR is going to be a bear to guard by anyone, and eventually I see JR and Shump getting time on the court together at the 2-3.
Can they beat Miami/Indiana? Nah. But they would be back in the running for the fourth seed--third if Chicago doesn't come around. The Nets are good, but not imposing right now.
Lopez better than advertised, Williams worse, and Garnett maybe at the end of his career. Too early to tell on that, but the signs aren't great. Everyone hits a wall eventually. Pearce was sick last night, so he gets a pass.
Copeland has played 5 minutes this season, with one assist and no other stats. I'm glad for him that he got his one good contract--playing (or not playing) for someone else.
possibly adding his name to the long list of young stud PGs. Best backup in the league last year playing behind CP3. Running with his opportunity now in Phoenix to lead a team. Suns are an early surprise 5-2, and here are his numbers
20.9 ppg
7.3 ast
4.4 rebs
52.2% FG
25.6 PER
He is off to a way better start than Kentucky teammate John Wall
Kevin Love averaging 27/14 on .474 shooting with 2.3 threes made
for a 5-2 Minny team that looks like it could sneak into the playoffs.
Ricky Rubio with a .318 FG% but with 8.7 APG and 3.6 SPG over 34 mins. His FG% issues are scary, anything below .400 is pathetic. Anything below .350 is borderline impossible. He needs to improve his shooting a lot but the 81% FT shooting so far in his career indicates that he does have what it takes to develop a good shot down the line.
Rubio has the skills to develop into a Rondo-level PG in this league one day, maybe better since he's an 80% FT shooter. He could dominate the APG and SPG categories in a way that only Stockton and CP3 have done. But he really needs to fix his scoring issues.
If he's able to make that jump in the 2nd half and Love and Minny keep this up, they will be a very dangerous 1st round team for someone. I'd love an OKC vs. Minny matchup.
lost in the Paul George hype is the fact that Born Ready finally looks ready. This is a guy who looked like a poor man's LeBron James as a HS prospect, if LeBron weren't a once in a generation Bo Jackson/Jim Brown level athlete and merely a good athlete.
14/5/5 line on .482 FG shooting including .500 from 3 so far (2.1 3s per game so he's shooting a lot of them).
their defensive numbers are beyond silly. If you were to only take into account this season and nothing else, results only and no room for opinion or analysis, you'd rank them as the best team in a power ranking.
But speaking for real, I don't think they're the best team in the league. I don't care if they finish with the one seed and get homecourt through the playoffs. I still have major questions about their half court O. I still question whether Paul George is ready to be the alpha on a team who wins a title, even though i love his ability and he's off to a fast start. They're still below league average on offense right now even during this hot start
Wade averaged 15/5/4 on .436 shooting in that 7 game Indy series
He does that again with Indy playing at this level and the Pacers win that series in 6 unless LeBron does something crazy for even him.
Long way to go and the Heat should still be #1 in terms of Vegas Championship odds. But the Pacers are a clear #2 at the moment and have looked much better early on.
My initial feeling entering the year was Chicago was better than Indy. I wouldn't change my mind on that off 8 games. I also really liked Brooklyn in preseason. Very discouraged by their weird, uneven start, but not yet bailing on the thought that their ceiling could be higher than Indy's. I could be epically wrong about that though as the Nets do have more bust potential than any of the top 4 teams in the East
I think SA is better than them too. Im reserving judgement on some other teams out west because they all have question marks, but i feel like Indiana is a known quantity to me.
Is much improved from last year. The bench is significantly better and several of the starters have benefited from a more focused off season. They have pulled the starters in almost half of the games I have watched so I'm not surprised that their offensive stats aren't as high as they could be.
They're definitely better than last year. Deeper, more experienced, their best player has taken another step... But I think the competition is better too. Im not saying they can't win a title this year, but i wouldn't favor them to do it, or even make it out of the East
I don't think last years Heat series going 7 games is representative of how the two teams stack up at full strength. Wade was severely diminished, Bosh struggled mightily (in what is admittedly a bad matchup for him), Hibbert had the best two weeks of his life. Indy had three of the top 4 players on the floor in the series and still lost. They had a perfect storm go their way. A healthier Miami will be better this May/June. Of course, its no lock they will be healthy. But when im judging these teams im going to assume they will be. They won't chase the 1 seed like Indy and it won't matter. I also would like Chicago over them once they get rolling, which i fully expect to happen
but this is an amazing college bball night. You have a 1 vs 2 matchup and may not even be the most appealing game of the night. No. 4 Duke against No. 5 Kansas and Wiggins
T'Wolves-Clippers game last night was seriously entertaining. Both those teams have some question marks at the defensive end, but they're both great to watch offensively.
Even though Minnesota lost, I came away from it thinking they might be pretty good, like winning a playoff series good. Kevin Martin isn't the greatest player in the world, but he's exactly what they needed. They're a very interesting team.
35 points in 32 minutes played. 15 for 23 from the floor, 4 for 6 from three.
He's gotten a few DNPCDs this year but Spo has given him run of late and hes had some monster stretches. In the Boston game this weekend he scored on like 4-5 consecutive trips down the floor. I've never been a big fan but he gives them something they really haven't had... A role player outside of the big three who can semi consistently go 1 on 1 and create his own offense without needing to be set up.
He'll probably still register DNPCD's now and then throughout the year but watch him have a playoff game where he explodes for 25 off the bench and helps them win a big game
Brooklyn and NYK and even Memphis who I'd have at 11 were all teams projected to be 50+ win contenders but who are struggling right now. For now I still have them ranked ahead of teams that were less hyped in the pre-season but are playing better now like the Wolves, Mavs, Blazers, Suns, etc. But the two NY teams need to step it up the rest of the way.
Love as a MVP. He is the type of player who can actually unseat Lebron for the various reasons:
1. An out of nowhere team to make the playoffs as a potential high seed.
2. Unreal stats.
3. Feel good story.
4. And not to stir anything up, but if Love finishes with 25-14-5, as a "white" basketball player - people are going to vote for him.
after entering the year with playoff expectations, and Nene fired some shots in the postgame last night after a loss to the Spurs. He doesn't name names, but its pretty clear he's talking about John Wall and Beal
They kicked our butts in the most classy way playing the right way, Nene said, fuming following the clinical destruction of the Wizards by the selfless Spurs. Its crazy, thats what makes me mad. Our young guys think theyre so smart. But if I was young, I would watch video of that game for one week to see if I could learn something, because the way they play is how youre supposed to play."
They not talented as us, Nene continued. They have great players, a great team, but the way they execute things, the way they cut, the way they exploit weaknesses, swing the ball. They dont think about stats. We still think about stats. Our young guys must take their heads out their butts and play the right way, because Im getting tired of this."
On another note, its very early. Too early to draw any conclusions, but anyone notice how much league pace has ticked up this year? Fastest pace since '94 early this season. Over 95 possessions a game, significant rise from recent seasons
how to shoot, the Wizards will always disappoint. Cleveland is another team that looks to be in disarray already. It really looks like a weaker east than many anticipated.
If NO is terrible this year, despite Anthony Davis' excellence (which btw should tell you something about what LeBron was able to accomplish in Cleveland), then the league lucked out with their trading away their first rounder.
I've always been a huge fan and still think he can put it together and become a star, but this is an important year in his career and I'd like to see him step up as a Franchise player and lead that team. The Wall/Beal backcourt has so much potential but they aren't playing like it so far.
Yeah, I hate to turn this into a "race" thing, but a white American hasnt been this good since probably Bird. The hype will only increase as the year goes on.
23/6/3 so far with nearly 50% from the floor. I dont know if Philly is going to want to rebuild with him. Him or Thad Young will be traded and they may actually get some good value.
Love deserves a ton of credit, probably player of the month
but check out what Kevin Martin is doing on that team...
24.6 ppg Efg% of .547 (46% from floor, 56% from three)
OKC misses that 3rd scorer in the Harden/Martin role desperately. I don;t like this Thunder team as much as the last two years because of it. They'll still win a ton of games, and probably could still make a final, but its going to be a much harder climb
As for Love, Ive been somewhat hard on him in the past because I've never seen an NBA player put up such monster numbers and have them translate to so few wins. Even with a garbage supporting cast, you average 20 and 15 your team should win more than 17 games. For this reason ive always been hesitant to rank him where he probably deserves. He needs to stay healthy, and he needs to make the playoffs. He does that and he has arrived.
because this Minny team is looking a lot like those old King teams under Adelman when they were just getting off the ground. You have Love in the Cwebb role, which makes more sense now with the step Love has taken a passer. Kevin Martin in the Peja role. Both had inefficient, flashy PGs that were fun to watch (Jwill, Rubio, though Rubio has more upside). Pekovic is basically giving you Divac numbers minus Divac's A+ big man passing skills. Corey Brewer playing that Doug Christie wing defender, 3rd scorer role. Both had backup PGs that were among the leagues best (Bobby Jackson, Barea). Young developmental foreigners on their bench (Turkoglu, Svhed)
San Antonio thing is ridiculous at this point. 8 wins out of 9 games, +9.3 point differential, nobody talking about them at all. The 8-1 record is so perfectly Spurs because if they were undefeated, people might talk about them. But they've got the 1 loss and they just keep humming along.
Minnesota has the 3rd best point differential in the league - might be too early to judge these things, but that's a good sign for them.
San Antonio thing is ridiculous at this point. 8 wins out of 9 games, +9.3 point differential, nobody talking about them at all. The 8-1 record is so perfectly Spurs because if they were undefeated, people might talk about them. But they've got the 1 loss and they just keep humming along.
Perfect way of putting it Jerry. And they're doing it with Duncan actually off to a pretty shitty start, been dinged a little too with chest/shoulder/neck issues
Looks like year 16 in a row with 50+ wins (with the lone exception being the 99 lockout year and only because it was just 50 games, they went 37-13 and won a title). They even won 50 in the 2012 lockout year 66 game season
Regular season wise, probably the best stretch ever. Not even russsell's celtics held on for this long. And it sounds silly to say it, but its somewhat disappointing they "only" won 4 chips. Considering all the close calls. Hell if Dallas doesn't get an improbable 3 point play late in game 7 in 06 from Dirk, and fisher doesn't hit that improbable .4 shot against them in 04, they could have 5-peated from 03-07. And then last year they come closer than anyone ever came to winning a title that didn't
I never liked them. Ive learned to never doubt them again. But i respect the hell out of them
because in the linked commercial they just released today, Lebron is wearing a different one. Curry, Harden, Nash, Rose and KD are in it too Link - ( New Window )
is going to kill this Knick frontcourt. He is going to be salivating at a Chandler-less matchup. Tyson has really played him well going back a long time now. Once helped hold him to 9.8 ppg for a full playoff series in 2010 with the bobcats. In 5 meetings as a Knick, Tyson has held him to a shade over 12
I think Dwight goes off for like 28 and 14 tonight
The one Battier is wearing in that pic isn't the Heat one..
the have #s on the front? The GS ones from last year were bad, but they're way better than these. Plus there's something about them that makes them look like girl's shirts.
is going to kill this Knick frontcourt. He is going to be salivating at a Chandler-less matchup. Tyson has really played him well going back a long time now. Once helped hold him to 9.8 ppg for a full playoff series in 2010 with the bobcats. In 5 meetings as a Knick, Tyson has held him to a shade over 12
I think Dwight goes off for like 28 and 14 tonight
So much for that. Took just 1 shot in the first half and passed out of every double team the Knicks threw his way. The only time i remember him getting 1 on 1, he drove on Bargnani and got called for a charge for lowering the shoulder
very fun game, closer in the final minutes than the score indicates
Chalmers got ejected for a forearm on Dirk, probably get him suspended too. (Dirk looked great by the way). Wade set a career high with 8 steals.
Lebron had 39 points on just 18 shots. He has been insanely efficient this year. Through 9 games he is shooting 61% from the floor, 52% from downtown. He has been coasting some this year playing through a sore back, but his postgame looks better than ever. The form on his jumpshot looks better than ever.
Lebron shoots 13 for 18 tonight, a day after shooting 14 for 18. Ty Lawson 28 pts and 17 ast in a loss at Houston. Dwight had 25 pts on 6 FG attempts, which must be some sort of record. Of course he shot a ton of FTs, didn't see the game but assume it was Hack-a-Dwight. Wiz drop a game at home to the Cavs, just a brutal start for them.
has probably already now retaken the lead in the ridiculous early MVP race. He now leads the league in PER for that would be a 7th season in a row. 27.3 pts 6.9 ast 5.4 rebs on 62.2% FG (51.7% from three). Rebounding is a bit down because he hasn't been as willing to mix it up at points playing through a sore back (although these last few games he looks very spry, thunderous dunks, chasedown blocks, he's getting back in shape). His conditioning isn't yet up to par and he's only playing 36 minutes a game right now.
This could be, for like year number 8 or 9 in a row it seems, the best version of Lebron. His jumper is insane right now, and his form has never looked better. His postgame is way more advanced now than ever as well. He is now a legit post player
im not just talking about low block, im talking mid post. He has shown more skill in that area early this season than ever. Looks like 2nd 3peat MJ working in that range. He's even incorporated a few Dirk one legged fades from 16 feet. He said before the year he's a better player now than he was last year, and skill wise he is clearly showing it. For him to be shooting 60+% as a wing player with this volume scoring, is like the equivalent of a QB completing like 80% of their passes. It's just not done.
Lebron for everything MoM has stated.
KD because of his insane scoring ability. Improved rebounding and passing.
Kevin Love - for everything that won Derrick Rose the MVP (plus skin color)
James undoubtedly will be the favorite. But if KD can get to 31-32 PPG and 8 boards, it will definitely make him a factor. If Minnesota can play as a top 4 seed, and Love puts up video like numbers, he will be considered as well.
Even though voters will never take this into account.... if I was a voter, I would have to put conference toughness into affect. The east looks really down this year. Indy is obviously good, Chicago will more than likely be good as well. After the top 3, I see a real drop. Knicks are just a mess right now. Nets are old, very old. Cleveland/Washington have not taken the next step. Atlanta and Detroit will battle to see who loses to one of the top seeds. East is not that impressive.
However in the west.... You got the Clips, Rockets, Spurs, Thunder, TWolves, Warriors, and Portland playing at high levels. Yoou got teams liek Phoenix and NO that are young and exciting. This doesnt even include the Lakers and Grizz trying to overcome some problems of their own.
The West is far stronger this year, so IMoo if Love and KD put up ridiculous numbers, my vote may have to swing towards them.
It's going to be tough to give it to anyone else. I don't know if he will shoot 60+% all season, but i wouldn't rule it out either coming off a year where he shot a tick under 57% and he might be even better now
Shooting efficiency isn't as mainstream as it should be, so i could easily see voters relying on basic averages and team success like they usually do. But this efficiency is out of this world good. forget just wings, no big has ever shot this well from the floor on this volume scoring. Shaq never even shot as well as Lebron is this year (although he came close). For a wing though this is completely unheard of
He has had the back spasms before, i just think it was an early season aches and pains of getting back in shape thing. Aggravated by diving for a loose ball. He has looked very spry this past week
They really shouldn't be playing Wade on any back to backs though. He looked awful last night, but they had to play him because Chalmers and Allen were out and they were thin at guard. Wade looks more like 2013 playoffs Wade than 2013 regular season Wade, and thats not a great thing. But their depth right now is probably better than i ever recall it being. People still think big 3 when it comes to Miami, but im more impressed with their depth than their star power after Lebron
Aren't they supposed to be losing every game and have a 15-20 win season to get at least a top five pick, pair that with the other picks they acquired/Rondo and get a very high pick and bounce back in a year or two?
Someone explain their strategy and if this is like Bird retiring or if Ainge has a good plan.
was a lengthy piece that almost read like an early Eli article saying Irving is an "awkward" leader and isn't comfortable in the role yet. Also said (not Eli related) that he needs to learn to be be more tactful when critiquing teammates.
but a radio guy in Cleveland named Anthony Lima came out and said the players only meeting was basically a mutiny against Kyrie Irving. Said everyone is tired of his act
hasn't been mentioned on this thread except for one brief mention by Dep...
9-2 now, if they beat the Bucks they'll have an unbeaten Eastern road swing. And they're doing it with Lillard shooting under 40%, although team wide they've been very hot shooting threes this year. Aldridge 22.6/9.2/.486 FG.
The Nets are now 3-7. I know they're banged up, but sooner or later you gotta start winning some games. And its an ugly 3-7, Brook Lopez is the only starter playing well and hes out now along with Dwill (who given his recent history will probably be playing with some nagging stuff all year). I was real high on the Nets in preseason. Its too early to jump ship. But im like 70% of the way to just admitting defeat on that one. They'll probably still be a playoff team, but i thought they would win 52-54 games (their over/under was 52.5). At this point they better start playing well soon or its going to be tough to even match the 49 they had last year
Julius Randle has the capacity of being a low-post scorer and a stretch 4, which makes him one of the most promising power forward prospects in years.
Randle has averaged 20.5 points, 14.3 rebounds on 62 percent shooting in his first four games at Kentucky.
"I think he's the surest thing in the draft," one GM said. "There's nothing he can't do and there just aren't that many bigs in the NBA with that set of skills. He's going to be a 10-time All-Star and will make a major impact on your team in Year 1. Wiggins might have a little more upside and [Parker] is so attractive as well, but if you take someone else, you're really risking your job."
Ive only seen Wiggins play once. I haven't yet seen Randle play. But i find it really interesting how many anonymous scouts and GMs we keep hearing from that are downplaying Wiggins position as the sure fire top pick
that he isn't the best talent in the draft. This is a guy whose skill level is rudimentary compared to Randle or Parker, but he's already well beyond both on D, while providing well above average production on O. I'm not a GM and i don't know as much as them, but unless I've got an elite young wing already, I'm taking Wiggins over Randle.
MoM: "impact in year 1", "surest thing", "risking your job". If the talents are close, a self-interested GM who is risk-averse and/or really wants to keep his job will pick Randle.
when i post these blurbs on various threads the last couple months, but thats not my intent. Im not taking a position either way, and his athletic ability being in the top .005 percentile is unquestioned. Id love nothing more than for him to be that type of generational prospect, thats good for the nba so thats good for me.
But we're really hearing a lot of stuff from anonymous GMs and scouts who are throwing water on the Wiggins fire. He has also once already been benched by his coach for effort issues, which was a knock you heard from scouts before he went to to kansas
but I wonder about this effort critique when he was the driving force in the win against Duke and personally guarded Parker (coincidentally when Parker starting going cooler from the field). There's a tendency to micro-critique guys with Wiggins talent level too. Finally given how deep the talent pool is in this draft and how close some of these talents are, I'm not surprised some GM's think Wiggins isn't the top talent. We also don't know if these are many scouts and gm's or the same handful being milked for the same quotes.
From what I see, however, I think he's a guy who has a good feel for basketball but needs to tighten things up more. Physically he's more talented than a guy like Paul George with a tighter handle already. The jumpshot is always fixable and you can't teach that potential release point. I don't think anyone would be a fool for picking Parker or Randle over Wiggins. There are certainly argument to be made. But I do think Wiggins' upside (on both sides of the ball) is much higher than any of these guys, especially given that he does try on D and there's evidence for that.
still sore from having to play a back to back on Fri/Sat, he was in the training room on Saturday well before the game was over too. It looks like its going to be a hot mess managing his knees all season
Wiggins shows very little offensive skill at this stage
are kind of amazing. They were already one of the most boring decent teams of all-time. Then they made a bunch of moves, stayed exactly the same in quality, and somehow got more boring. It's impressive.
I think Rubio got benched in the 2nd half tonight. I was at the game, so I don't know if he got hurt, but he was playing awful and didn't get on the court much late in the game.
RE: Wiggins shows very little offensive skill at this stage
I don't think you take a wing #1 because he can defend and is an elite athlete.
I thoroughly disagree. I think he shows a surprisingly good handle and decent passing ability. His shot needs work and perhaps he needs to be more aggressive, but I think you completely underrate his skill level.
RE: RE: Wiggins shows very little offensive skill at this stage
I don't think you take a wing #1 because he can defend and is an elite athlete.
I thoroughly disagree. I think he shows a surprisingly good handle and decent passing ability. His shot needs work and perhaps he needs to be more aggressive, but I think you completely underrate his skill level.
You may have watched him more than I have but I have not seen a surprisingly good handle. In any case you're basically describing Darius Miles with a better attitude - a nice complimentary player on a team with a #1 option. I still don't think you draft a wing #1 based on athleticism a good handle, ok passing and good defense. I don't think that he shows the scoring skills or instincts to project him with confidence as the kind of wing worthy of the the #1 pick.
creativity along with a good jump shot. I think comparing him to Darius miles is absurd given the efficiency with which wiggins has produced. We'll see who'll be right but I'll eat crow of Wiggins doesn't turn out to be a franchise player.
is not sustainable. But in any event, is Parker really *that* lethal a shooting prospect? Is this a fluke small sample thing, or is this kid a lethal pure shooter to a degree that could render the Melo and Paul Pierce comparisons way off once we see him play more?
From everything I read about the guy, he was a pretty good shooter from deep and a good mid-range shooter. If he's really this good from deep, then his upside is much higher than previously perceived. But as you note, it's a really small sample size. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as merely a good three point shooter, not a great one.
Parker just looks way more polished and NBA ready than Wiggins, with still a ton of upside. He can score from everywhere and is filling up the stat sheet.
in terms of play so far...
smart
Parker
Randle
Wiggins.
the difference is Wiggins is not asked to do as much at this point. That will likely evolve. Parker looks much more polished then Wiggins. with Parker the first thing you speak of is his bball game... with wiggins, to me its his athleticism.
With smart, he just seems a heady complete player, who would have been clearly the best player in the draft last year.
regardless... its a fantastic year of talent in college hoops. first time long time.
with increased minutes he's averaging 12/12 with 1.5 Blocks and Steals. He's still so raw and can't shoot a FT, but that is just a fun front court to watch. Really hope Detroit makes the playoffs; that city needs it and I'd like to watch Drummond more.
people are talking about him but Marcus Smart is on the same level as Randle/Wiggins/Parker, just a monster
Yep, I came here to say the same thing. Marcus Smart is a beast. Getting overshadowed by the Freshmen, but he is a baller.
Jabari Parker may have the highest floor of any prospect since LeBron. But I think a lot of us including myself underrated his ceiling. He is a better athlete than I thought he was going to be in HS.
At this point, I think his ceiling is a better Paul Pierce. Paul Pierce is a HOFer who has career averages of 22/6/4 in 1111 career games, a better version of that makes for a pretty damn ridiculous player. That's a really high ceiling for a guy known for having an insanely high floor.
I still think Wiggins has clearly the highest ceiling of this class because of his physical tools. He's built to be a terrorizing scorer with plus skills outside of scoring. But how much better than "better version of Paul Pierce" is Wiggins' ceiling? How much better does it need to be to make up for Wiggins' higher bust potential and lower floor?
I'm still firmly in the Wiggins as #1 camp, but I'm slowly starting to consider Parker as #1 because I think I underestimated his potential. Randle is a beast too but I still need to see more of his defense before really comparing him to Wiggins/Parker. And Marcus Smart needs to be in the mix too.
Anthony Davis last night 22 pts 9 rebs 8 blks. He actually leads the league in PER right now, marginally ahead of Lebron
Portland now at a 10-2
The Mavs looking reborn with an awesome comeback win against the Rockets. Monta Ellis has been an awesome addition and Dirk looks the best he has in a couple years. They're 8-4 right now
Miami wins again without Wade... They're 26-5 in the Lebron era when Wade is out and Lebron plays
Roy Hibberts offensive game still leaves a ton to be desired. All the polish of Dwight Howard with none of the athleticism.
A lot of people expected him to make a jump this year because of how much he beasted against Miami in the ECF. I think that will forever be the series of his life. He is still an amazing defensive presence though
just brutal. this team on the court stinks. and cant score. and i feel like im having flashbacks watching them start reggie evans. you CANT START him. he cant score. its like playing 4 on 5. its embarrassing. him playing with livingston means 2 players you dont have to guard on jump shots... its beyond awful.
they have buried mirza telotovic's career... despite him being the best scorer in europe. great job. just pathetic.
this team was supposed to be similar to last year and add vets to be role players... now role players are having to be stars... awful. maybe blatche can dribble more that would help too. he doesnt even post up. get him off the court
don't expect it to continue but ive been impressed with Boston every time ive watched them this year. I think Stevens is going to be a hell of a coach, but like all coaches (moreso in the nba than any other sport) his success is going to be tied to his talent
They'll play better if and when they get healthier, but in either case this team isn't as good as i thought they were. I totally whiffed thinking they could be 50+ win good
Good example why this pacer team has me hooked again.
Whiffed on Dwight but its looking like they had a helluva consolation prize offseason with Ellis, Calderon and Blair. Plus Dirk is looking healthy and better than he has at any point since they won their title. The West is just unfathomably stacked right now.
and outscored the Cavs 23-7 in the final 4:28 to win 104-100
Anthony Davis 17 pts 13 rebs 3 blks. New Orleans is now 6-6 and on a 3 game win streak.
If you erased track records from your memory and only judged guys off the first 4 weeks of this season and nothing more, Anthony Davis is a top 5 player in the nba right now.
I wish people could see the game Thibs has coached. Its absolutely pathetic and painful to watch. This is about the 5th or 6th game this year that Thibs just doesnt know what to do when things go bad.
He has been a very bad this year despite popular opinion.
Hope he's okay. It has been a disaster of a comeback, if he has another ACL his career is in big trouble. Its early to speculate but if thats the case, its a near certainty his best basketball is behind him Link - ( New Window )
even something that only knocks him out a few weeks would still suck given hes still trying to get back in rhythm from missing all of this time. He missed almost half the lockout season in 2012 even before his ACL in the playoffs. Then he missed all of last season. Either case its not good, its just a matter of how bad. If he has to miss another full season that would be devastating.
He doesnt know anything yet. He says Rose feels pain in the right knee and can't push off. Thibs says he is concerned but doesn't want to speculate, MRI tomorrow
but then they better start trading guys off quickly because this team is still too good even without Rose to be anywhere near that mix. I think Thibs is the absolute worst coach to have if you really wanted to tank too, its so polar opposite of the culture he has built. They play hard more consistently than anyone other than possibly Indiana, who basically has Thibs Jr
Just brainstorming and not really thinking of potential compensation or trades that work under the cap... But as Dep said Deng would be a sweet fit for the clippers. Carlos Boozer would be a nice pickup for Houston. I'd assume the Bulls would want to hold on to Noah but that makes it tougher to tank
Monta Ellis looking like the best FA pickup this offseason
He's making less mistakes, and has been much more efficient across the board. Glad he's looking like he's putting it together. Perhaps all he needed was a great player like Dirk to play off of, and a good coach like Rick Carlisle to put him in situations to do what he does best.
Its also the first time Ellis has played with someone clearly better
than him. If you have a modicum of intelligence, you're not the same chucker you were playing with guys like Brandon Jennings and whoever he played with in GS when you're playing with HOF Dirk.
is the absolute ideal spot, a deal something should even be thinking about regardless of Rose's injury.
Noah has 1 ideal spot, IMO - but its never going to happen. What team in the league needs a defensive presence and a rebounding animal who requires next to no shots and is a total energy guy?
is that the guys the bulls should deal are making big money and teams in contention don't have caproom, so the Bulls would have to take back money. Plus those teams don't have many attractive young resources.
I prefer to deal with a team that is feeling the pressure to be good
is shaping up a lot like the 1988 East. We're just killing time until the conference finals and everyone knows who is going to be there. Detroit and Boston went 7 games in 87, much like Miami-Indy did last year. Everyone knew they would meet again in 88, and they did. You have to expect a similar rematch here with a similar conference layout. No depth, the 5 seed in '88 won 42 games, the 7 and 8 seeds both won a mere 38. That was the season Jordans Bulls started to finally get off the ground, but they weren't a real contender. That was their first +500 season with MJ
On another note, just glancing at the standings, amazing the Spurs are 11-1. That team just glides to 60 wins each year like it's nothing. I doubt they win a title, and it will be tough for them to come out of the West, but they are an excellent regular season team.
Guys like Westbrook, CP3, Griffin, and Lin had the same injury. It sucks to say this, but I agree. Get it repaired and strengthen it and come back next year.
with Westbrook and get the repair. D-Wade still regrets to this day having the meniscus removed and blames it for somewhat breaking down the way he has over the past couple years at an age where he should still beast. Chris Paul had a removal and really has only been about 90% of the player he was before that. Still amazing, was better
Lets say it 4 months which seems typical for a meniscus repair. That timetable is going to put him once again cleared to play before the playoffs begin (and the bulls will be a playoff team) and lead to a brand new Rose watch, putting him in a weird spot where he is cleared but may not be ready
Id be worried about his psyche right now as much as anything
Is often criticized on this thread I thought I would post his stats from tonight's gamed. He scored 27 points on a 7 of 12 shooting night. He had 13 rebounds and 6 blocks.
but on the season entering the night came in averaging 10.9 with 1 assist vs 2.5 turnovers. He's going to win defensive player of the year, but offensively he is from the Mutombo side of the Georgetown Center family.
Aren't they supposed to be losing every game and have a 15-20 win season to get at least a top five pick, pair that with the other picks they acquired/Rondo and get a very high pick and bounce back in a year or two?
Someone explain their strategy and if this is like Bird retiring or if Ainge has a good plan.
playing like a bad team. Nothing more to it. They play hard though, there is no intentional tank effort wise (Ive seen them 3-4 times most recently last night), and depending on when rondo gets back its not out of the realm of possibility that they can be a playoff team in an East that lacks depth. Right now the depth in the East is a trainwreck and Boston is only a game out of a playoff spot
"I believe that professional sports leagues should work together and fund studies to determine the efficacy of HGH for rehabbing an injury," Cuban said. "Working together could lead us from the path of demonizing HGH and even testosterone towards a complete understanding. It could allow us to make a data based decision rather than the emotional decision we are currently making. And if it can help athletes recover more quickly, maybe we can extend careers and have healthier happier players and fans."
this transformation is for real but if PG can shoot 48-50% from the field and basically be a 25 ppg scorer, then he's a top 5 player and the Pacers are a title favorite. It's pretty fun to see a guy really blossom.
on an 11 game win streak, with a point differential of 12.1 ppg
Yet you take a look at their numbers, and I'm not sure a single guy deserves to make the all star team. Parker is the only one who has a shot, but the PG depth in the West is crazy. They have been incredibly bizarre to follow since Duncan exited his prime. Classic example of "whole greater than the sum of the parts". Easy to overlook, and in the post prime Duncan era they haven't made you pay for it come playoff time, until last year when they F'd around and almost won a chip. So you have to take them seriously
But I don't even know what to say about them, other than Poppovich is amazing and their system is incredible in a sport where talent just about always trumps scheme. Tim Duncan is even playing like shit this year and they keep rolling along.
does not run any offensive sets. The team is poorly constructed. There is no serviceable 3.
I still can't comprehend why the Cavs picked Waiters ahead of Barnes in 2012. Then Bennett. I think the GM (Chris Grant) is prone to over-thinking. Or else the Cavs are tanking (:
to an extension? I think they'd be foolish to trade him.
I pray that they trade him. He is not a number 2 option, and now the Bulls will be in desparate need of another scorer since Rose probably will never be the same. He'd be an ideal fit for Clippers.
Signing him to 10 million a year, just keeps the same players at a declining level.
I wonder if the Clippers would trade DeAndre and Dudley for
but it doesn't suck quite as bad as it looks at the moment. A few of these teams are going to start to play a lot better, and one that already is are the Wizards. They're starting to play to the expectations people had for them, even with the setback on the Beal injury
John Wall just won player of the week. Tonight they won their 3rd in a row. They're now just 1 under .500 despite playing a very road heavy schedule to date
Pacers tonight held the bobcats to 31% shooting and 74 points tonight. Their defense to start this season is historic level good. Hibbert is such a DPOY lock. Barring injury, Hibbert is a bigger lock to win DPOY this year than anyone is to win anything, including Lebron and MVP
Nice job by the Lakers holding it down without Kobe this year. I didn't think they could play .500 ball especially against the very tough sked theyve faced (5th toughest in the NBA entering tonight).
Michael Beasley has been awesome for Miami this year. This is by far the best bench the Heat have had
I'm not even one of his biggest c.suckers on here but this guy has hit a level so epic that any hater can just stfu because they were so wrong. If you wanna say Jordan is better that's cool, because that's where it ends. He's that fucking good.
Bo Jackson lives up to his potential as an NFL RB and he isn't as good as LeBron is as an NBA player. In a dumber generation, LeBron is the best TE in NFL history on top of being the best NBA player since Jordan. Once in a lifetime athlete who has combined skill with talent in a way that is unheard of in his sport, a sport that consists of the best run-jump athletes in the world.
But it's a long ass season and we all know it depends on Wade's healty. He gets injured and Paul George and Indy are going to be ready to jump all over a LeBro-only squad in the playoffs. Wade stays healthy and it's still going to be a War with Indy.
Derrick Rose better get himself on track soon. This is a guy who had an age 22 season that was probably better than LeBron's age 22 season. It was a pretty fucking sick year. An in his prime 26 year old LeBron put him in his place in the playoffs but that's nothing to be ashamed of. Since that point it's all been downhill for the dude. He really seems like a real person, not a bitch like some of these fake ass famous athletes. Definitely rooting for him to reclaim his status as one of the baddest guys in the game.
Melo's a great player but he needs fucking help. The shitting on Melo articles will be out in full force these days but it's not Melo. It's everyone else. Give this man a great PG and defensive help and you'll get a Hall of Famer.
The Rockets are still gonna make it outta the West, sorry ladies. Happy turkey day.
I'm not even one of his biggest c.suckers on here but this guy has hit a level so epic that any hater can just stfu because they were so wrong. If you wanna say Jordan is better that's cool, because that's where it ends. He's that fucking good.
Bo Jackson lives up to his potential as an NFL RB and he isn't as good as LeBron is as an NBA player. In a dumber generation, LeBron is the best TE in NFL history on top of being the best NBA player since Jordan. Once in a lifetime athlete who has combined skill with talent in a way that is unheard of in his sport, a sport that consists of the best run-jump athletes in the world.
But it's a long ass season and we all know it depends on Wade's healty. He gets injured and Paul George and Indy are going to be ready to jump all over a LeBro-only squad in the playoffs. Wade stays healthy and it's still going to be a War with Indy.
Derrick Rose better get himself on track soon. This is a guy who had an age 22 season that was probably better than LeBron's age 22 season. It was a pretty fucking sick year. An in his prime 26 year old LeBron put him in his place in the playoffs but that's nothing to be ashamed of. Since that point it's all been downhill for the dude. He really seems like a real person, not a bitch like some of these fake ass famous athletes. Definitely rooting for him to reclaim his status as one of the baddest guys in the game.
Melo's a great player but he needs fucking help. The shitting on Melo articles will be out in full force these days but it's not Melo. It's everyone else. Give this man a great PG and defensive help and you'll get a Hall of Famer.
The Rockets are still gonna make it outta the West, sorry ladies. Happy turkey day.
I never expected this level of improvement in the low and mid post. The dude barely had an offseason, how did he make this much progress?
In the past couple years when people spoke of improvements in Lebrons post game, it was all relatively speaking. He didn't have a postgame, so when he began to develop rudimentary skills down there it was considered progress, even though it was more strength based than skill based, and therefore more low post than mid post, and limited to select matchups where the guy guarding him was giving up a ton of weight. Like all the guys OKC threw at him in the '12 finals, or Paul George last year in the ECF. At this point he has that MJ turnaround from 18 feet over either shoulder down pat. And the elite 3 point shooting which seemed somewhat anomalous last year and probably likely to be his peak distance shooting year, has not only been maintained but improved upon. He is legitimately an elite pure shooter at this point
Check out this chart of the true shooting % of the top 25 usage rate players in the NBA
He said this was the best he has ever been entering this season, and hes backing it up. This is also the best supporting cast he has ever had if Wade stays healthy. Miami's depth is just incredible this season. The only thing staying in the way of a Miami 3peat is health. And even then, they could probably still win with a 75% healthy D-Wade just like last year. Because the rest of the team is that much better.
is still the achilles heel though, and Indy is built perfectly to give them trouble. If Oden can build to a point where he gives them 15 minutes a night, its curtains though.
not sure the Knicks need a guy who needs the ball and can't play defense.
I watch a lot of Knicks, Nets and Cavs games (guess I'm a glutton for punishment), and Mike Brown seriously has no idea of how to run an offense. That makes it difficult to evaluate Kyrie, Waiters and Jack.
he would have just waited and signed with the team in the offseason, instead he forced the Knicks to use assets to trade for him so he could get a bigger pay day.
You wanted Melo to wait through all of the uncertainty of the new CBA, possibly leave millions of dollars on the table, just so he could help the Knicks out of their jam of giving away so much for a superstar player?
Please tell me one player in an sport who has done that? Anyone?
Or you can just go back to enjoy watching the Knicks fail this season.
Please explain to me what they have won since Melo has left?
They are a team without a superstar (or even anything close to a superstar) in a league that depends so heavily on a superstar. They didn't win anything when they had Melo as their lone superstar, now you seem to think that they can win without him?
And please stop propping up Donnie Walsh as some great savior. He did an awful job for the Knicks. Selling off all the Knicks assets for pennies on the dollar just to prepare for Lebron, isn't exactly impressive. And then only to strike out and vastly overbid for Amare when nobody else would even touch him? Yeah, but he's great because he didn't want to do the Melo deal. You know, get the guy who got us to the second round last season.
Yes, disappointing.
Walsh wanted to preserve the Knicks roster, and wait for
the Nuggets to cave. Dolan/IT/CAA undercut the Knicks leverage.
I think the Knicks could have waited the Nuggets out. I wasn't against the deal, just thought that the Knicks could have come out with a better roster by using their leverage. The worst case would have been not getting Carmelo and keeping Chandler, Felton, Gallinari and their 2014 # 1.
(Which could turn into someone like Marcus Smart, or, if lucky, Randle, Parker or Wiggins.)
The other scenario would have been getting Carmelo in July 2011 (with or without losing Tyson), and keeping the pick and the players. It's not a sure thing in any analysis, but it's an interesting what-if.
Carmelo also. It's a pretty important fact to leave out. Carmelo wanted to come to NY, not just the Knicks. In my opinion, Melo was not going to take the chance of losing millions in the new CBA. If the Knicks were going to play hardball with the Nuggets, then they would have just made the trade with the Nets. So, it's not as easy as saying that the Knicks could just "wait them out."
And, I'm sorry, but in what world is it a good plan to keep that mediocre team in place for another three years with the "hope" of getting a stud player in the 2014 draft? It's great to think back and say that this would have been the worst case scenario, but if those are the types of decisions this organization is making, then we would have a much bigger problem.
I think it goes without saying that a good, penetrating PG is necessary. They type of PG who can drive to the basket, breakdown the defense, and then dish the ball out. Obviously Rondo is an ideal candidate but I doubt that's happening. Ainge would take garbage from the Nets before ever dealing with the Knicks. Curry would have been great (just missed out on him in 2009).
But to me, I think that the coaching (aside from the injuries) is the biggest problem on this team. This Knicks team isn't that much different than last season. And I fully believe that we actually improved from last season. I know that a lot of people say that the lack of veteran leadership (Kidd, Wallace, Camby, Thomas) is a big hit. But you can't tell me that having veteran leaders (especially veteran leaders that rarely play and when they do play they are awful) is going to be the difference between a 35 win team and a 54 win team? Come on, that's just ridiculous.
This Knicks team shouldn't be this bad. I have seen so many offensive and defensive breakdowns that just shouldn't happen on any pro team. Either Woodson has lost this team or his lack of offensive/defensive coaching is horrible. It's probably a combination of both.
But mostly we need another superstar or near superstar player to help Melo. I'm not sure who's available in 2015, but we'll have the cap space to add someone so hopefully we can put it together then.
2nd time this year OKC and GS have squared off in an excellent one. I want a playoff series between these two badly. GS won game 1 at home at the buzzer, now tonight hold a 5 point lead with 3 min left on the road despite no Igoudala and Klay Thompson shooting just 5 for 18 (he also had the worst brick ive ever seen at the FT line by a shooter as awesome as him)
GS trying to protect a 2 point lead late and just couldnt grab a rebound to ice it. Had one go off Klay Thompson out of bounds, then had the other one before the Westbrook game winner. David Lee missed some big FTs in this game late. Harrison Barnes looked like a monster and outplayed Durant for long stretches, did a great job on him defensively too. I like Igoudala but i still don't love the move because of the way it stunts Barnes growth.
Great game, two awesome ones between the two teams.
was very close to his foot being on the line, it was actually pretty inconclusive so they stood with the call on the floor, but it could have gone either way
reinjured his lower back tonight. Stayed in the game, but he could be out Sunday. Called it a definite setback, said he had gotten to 95% health before this.
but my god the NBA regular season is so meaningless. We already know who the top teams are. Its basically about following young players develop and stat watching your favorite player for 82 games before any real drama of consequence begins.
RE: maybe its negativity because of the Rose injury
but my god the NBA regular season is so meaningless. We already know who the top teams are. Its basically about following young players develop and stat watching your favorite player for 82 games before any real drama of consequence begins.
Ummm.... the West seeding will go down to the last week guaranteed. Between SA, LAC, OKC, Houston, and GS....... there is a shit ton of good teams there.
There is some awesome basketball being played out West
the conferences are just imbalanced. But the two teams at the top of the East are very strong. Almost Everything you wanted to see from Indiana this year to take the next step is coming to fruition. Paul George taking a huge step, their bench is way better, they are more consistent night to night and Hibbert will run away with DPOY. I have my doubts they could sustain this because they are mediocre offensively, but they are probably the best team from the East not named Miami since the 2008 Celtics. their early regular season numbers have GOAT defensive team potential, its been that good. Although admittedly against a weak sked
but my god the NBA regular season is so meaningless. We already know who the top teams are. Its basically about following young players develop and stat watching your favorite player for 82 games before any real drama of consequence begins.
Ummm.... the West seeding will go down to the last week guaranteed. Between SA, LAC, OKC, Houston, and GS....... there is a shit ton of good teams there.
Do we really need 82 games to determine seeding? And its not like seeding is that important. Lets get to the games that really matter ASAP.
In a sport where home court is more significant than any other. Some people love complaining. Does the 82 game season drag on at times? Sure. But any cure you have is way worse than the disease
people complain that there is too much mediocrity in the NFL, yet people complain about the NBA? Well you can't win then because the NBA is the one sport where there are great teams every year.
The Knicks are not watchable. Between the Heat, Pacers, Thunder, Spurs and several others out West, theres too many good teams out there to watch to waste time on the Knicks. Im a Knick fan, but im a bigger NBA fan than a Knick fan, and a fan of good basketball. There is none of that occurring in NY right now. Ive watched relatively little Knicks or Nets and have spent far more time on the above teams
The Knicks are not watchable. Between the Heat, Pacers, Thunder, Spurs and several others out West, theres too many good teams out there to watch to waste time on the Knicks. Im a Knick fan, but im a bigger NBA fan than a Knick fan, and a fan of good basketball. There is none of that occurring in NY right now. Ive watched relatively little Knicks or Nets and have spent far more time on the above teams
Ive actually watched more TWolves games lately than the Bulls. TWolves always seem to play a good team when I have a night off. Ive seen them play Clip, thunder, Rockets, Warriors, among other teams. Always an entertaining game. Hell, I watched them play the Mavericks last night. Was very fun to watch.
I was excited to watch Nets games this year and I still watch a lot of them, but mostly I'm just back to regularly watching Heat games like I have for the past two years. Minnesota and the Clippers are my next two - they're good to watch and have professional broadcasters. Most of the NBA announcing crews are so bush league that it's tough to watch their games.
I don't know about you guys, but i'm watching Knicks-Nets
playing like a bad team. Nothing more to it. They play hard though, there is no intentional tank effort wise (Ive seen them 3-4 times most recently last night), and depending on when rondo gets back its not out of the realm of possibility that they can be a playoff team in an East that lacks depth. Right now the depth in the East is a trainwreck and Boston is only a game out of a playoff spot
I thought their goal was to tank and get a big pick and not be in purgatory. Isn't that what they should be doing?
has ever said anything of the sort. That's fan talk, and while it may be in their long term best interest to bottom out, they aren't going to lose games intentionally. On top of that, the East shitty depth makes it easier to make the playoffs than it does to tank. When Rondo gets back, they're not a bottom 5 team. They'll be in the mix for a playoff spot. It all depends on when he returns
has ever said anything of the sort. That's fan talk, and while it may be in their long term best interest to bottom out, they aren't going to lose games intentionally. On top of that, the East shitty depth makes it easier to make the playoffs than it does to tank. When Rondo gets back, they're not a bottom 5 team. They'll be in the mix for a playoff spot. It all depends on when he returns
Wouldn't it make more sense just to tank?
In the NBA nothing is worse than being a 8-12 seed annually.
is a half game behind Toronto for the division lead, which would get them the 5 seed. (And yes i said 5 seed, not 4 seed. The rule is so dumb to call a division winner a 4 seed but treat them like a 5 seed if the actual 5 seed has a better record. If you are in that 4 v 5 matchup and don't have home court, i don't care what they call you, you are the 5 seed)
is just strange. I'm sure they'd love a high pick, but I doubt Stevens will win his team over by giving nightly tanking pep talks.
I think tanking is more of a fan thing then reality. Teams definitely do it, but not right out of the gates, and certainly not 15 games into a new HC's career in the NBA.
and deserve to be shat on... however, there are some positive developments of late.
1) they are playing teletovic as i have been clamoring for, and hes playing well
2) blatche is posting up
3) lopez is back
4) pierce is out as he has been AWFUL, which helps joe johnson
- they are not far out and the division stinks so the pressure level is not as crazy as one would expect given performance/expectations.
that said it aint rosy for sure and they look like dog squeeze.
its never a thing where the guys on the floor aren't trying to win. Those guys are playing for their NBA lives, and couldn't give two shits about the hot shot draft pick who may take their job. Jeff Green is going to bust his ass. Avery Bradley is going to bust his ass. Jared Sullinger is trying to prove he belongs in the league. Jordan Crawford is trying to make a name for himself
A team may hold out injured players longer than necessary, and who knows if they go that road with Rondo. A team might tinker with their rotation late in the season once they are eliminated from contention. But tanking is never quite as blatant as people think. And this conference is going to have a tough time eliminating Boston from playoff contention
exactly how I look at it. Tanking happens when a teams fate is 100% transparent. Boston has a shot a a legit seeding, and they will take it. The players will, as will Stevens.
to make the salaries work in just about any deal. And OKC would have to take on salary with Noah, and a longer deal than Perkins, possibly putting them in the luxury tax threshold. This is something they desperately want to avoid, hence why they made the Harden move and let Martin walk to Minnesota
I have a tough time believing a deal is there to be made for two reasons
1. Bulls can get a better package elsewhere
2. It would be bizarre to see OKC all of a sudden change course on their small market nature.
won't tank, specifically, but they are definitely going to be interested in clearing contracts and getting younger where they can.
I'd love them to lose every game the rest of the year, but I still see them winning 38-40 games and being in playoff contention (if they don't make any big trades).
the Wizards are the 3rd best team in the East. This is the type of comment you make on December 2nd and can really regret on March 2nd, but they look real good and are doing most of this recently without Beal. Theyve now won 7 of 9 and are .500 after a 2-7 start.
he's playing the best basketball of his career, and will get a ton of money from someone next year.
He's by far the teams best player now, and the Bulls will be in full tank mode without him, which is another reason to trade him.
Mirotic (best European player), Charlotte's early teens pick, the Bulls own lottery pick and whatever return is gotten for Deng is a nice way to restock the shelves around Derrick with Noah, Butler and Gibson still on board.
Watching one of the most entertaining games I've seen... The Warriors, down by 18 to start the fourth against the Raptors, caught fire and wound up winning by 9 in front of a raucous home crowd.
with those European players. Mirza Teletovic was supposed to be one of the best players in Europe, but he's been one of the worst players in the NBA. It's ridiculous how bad he is - a shooter who's not good at shooting and horrifically bad at every other part of the game. Of course there are lots of players who turn out to be good, but it's not a guarantee.
I don't know. Us Noogies fans might be witnessing the creation of a monster! Mozgov 17 points, 20 rebounds! Faried and Hickson out-athleticizing other big men! Ty Lawson running amok! Wilson Chandler for three! (Carmelo who?)
Taking it to a different level this year. 20.2pts/8.1ast/.463%FG/.373%3pfg/22.84 PER) And the pace setter for their up tempo style, one of the 5 fastest guys with the ball in the game
Try and pick 3 all star PGs from the West this year, a few deserving guys are going to have zero shot. Lawson is probably one of those who will meet that fate.
Lillard, Lawson, Westbrook, Dragic will be left out, but RW may be voted in:
How about pick some shooting guards:
Harden is a given
Kevin Martin has had a monster year
Monte Ellis deserves consideration
Gordon Hayward has been much improved
Klay Thompson
But statistically at least, his numbers look pretty similar to Curry. The thing about Curry though is that he can still become an Eli-esque turnover machine during mystifyingly long stretches. You live with it happily, because his shooting, play-making, and even stealing abilities will win you more games than his turnovers will cost you. But he's got to get a handle on that shit.
But its going to get way more clouded. Westbrook is shooting poorly coming off the surgeries, but he will pick it up. Lillards FG% is down a bit too but mainly because almost half his FG attempts are threes (where hes shooting 40+% on 7 attempts per game, thats crazy impressive on that volume). His True Shooting % (TS%, takes into account the value of threes and FT shooting too) of 55.1% is only marginally behind a guy like Tony Parker (57.0%) even though Parker is shooting over 53% from the floor while Lillard is under 40%. More importantly he has been a key cog in a team who is now the 1 seed for the moment at least
Lawson has just been awesome. But its very crowded between guys with better numbers and guys on better teams who will get recognized for that.
When asked by Sean Cunningham about his availability for Friday, Cousins sarcastically said "Probably not. I think I'll be out rest of the season and I can get a comeback commercial."
with Rose, the comment is fine. But from what I know, they dont. And if thats a case, mark down reason number a billion on why Cousins will never grow up. Million dollar talent, 10 cent brain. Someone should remind him that his team sucks, and he isnt doing anything to make them better.
Is going on in Mexico City? Spurs were supposed to play the Wolves there tonight, but the arena is now being evacuated, game hasn;t started, might be cancelled.
This guy has the makings of a total beast. The Pistons are starting to look more like the decent team a lot of people thought they could be, same with Washington. Some of these teams in the East were bound to start playing better
With like a minute or two left in the game, the broadcast flashed up Aldridge's stat line, and he was shooting well over 50%. And the Portland guy goes "Look how efficient he is, he isnt some guy like Carmelo Anthony who needs to take a million shots to get his points"
3 straight games of 18+ rebounds and a 30 point game under his belt? He's having an unreal start to this season and has been getting better the last week or so. If he can ever get his FT's up to 50% he'll be a nightmare to play against.
has a higher career TS% than Aldridge, but that's likely to be lost on the small town rubes who work as announcers for some of these teams. Even in this season, in which Melo has struggled from day 1, they're shooting about the same.
I can't remember a single instance in my entire life where anyones broadcast cited someones TS%. Would be nice if it could be mainstreamed a bit more, but we're not there yet
27-8 to start this game. They have more offensive rebounds than the Heat have total rebounds. The Bulls always play them well in the regular season for this very reason. Indiana can do the same thing to them and is just better than the Bulls. They're probably going to need something from Oden, as unlikely as that sounds
this is a meaningless game but I think it illustrates a legitimate
He's become so caught up with efficiency and not being selfish that even in a game where his team clearly doesn't have it, he doesn't go for 40 and try to will his team victory, even if it means shooting 12 for 30 or something like that.
Similarly, he fails to take end of quarter half court shots, probably out of the same concern for efficiency numbers.
and I realize there's a fine line between praising and criticizing
a guy for chucking, but I think that's one thing that differentiates championship years MJ from Kobe and LeBron. MJ knew when he should play LeBron facilitator or Kobe aggressive shot taker to maximize his teams chance of winning.
do that at the end of quarters in low % situations. More than not.
Regarding careful shot selection and an unselfish and selective nature on offense... Efficiency is the Heat mantra. Lebron's FG% isn't the only one on the Heat skyrocketing in recent seasons. Take a look at Wade, take a look at Bosh. Career high territory. Everyone talks about their star power, but the dirty little secret about the Heat is that their ball movement is Spurs like, they don't run much isolation at all. They lead the league in assist rate this year, they were 3rd last season (when they also set an NBA record for adjusted FG%). They play team ball, work both sides of the court and look for the best shot they can get
Lebron may not break from that structure on a December 5th game against the depleted Bulls. But in big spots we have seen him flip the switch back to "Cleveland mode" more times than you can count in the playoffs when it is required. His career scoring average is higher in the playoffs than the regular season. And Mavs series aside, the bigger the situation the more "Cleveland Mode" comes out. See the comeback against Boston from down 3-2 in 2012. See the Indiana series last year when Wade couldn't give them anything and he had to take on more of a scorers mindset. Or when the bigger the game got in the Spurs series, the more he took on that scoring role as other guys struggled. Including in game 7 where he set a record for points scored in a game 7 finals win. He is the leading scorer in history in elimination games and game 7's.
And If there's one thing id rather have a guy care about above all else, its being efficient. That's not shiny, that's not glamorous, no one gives a shit but stat nerds and coaches. He would gain more acclaim by averaging 30 on lesser efficiency which he totally could do every single season.
id rather he take that shot, but you act like he doesn't have a ton of company. And those shots you are talking about collectively don't add up to much. Lebron is not hovering around 60% merely because he passes on a half court shot every blue moon, once every 4 games if that
we've also seen him be unduly passive in big spots vs. Dallas and SA in the finals. I think that's for different reasons than efficiency numbers preservation though.
I don't think the best player playing to maximize their TS% in every game necessarily maximizes their teams chances to win in every game.
Obviously though I don't have any evidence that LeBron
the better he played. And in doing so joined himself from one year earlier as the only guys to average 25-10-7 in a final, and set a finals game 7 scoring record, all the while underwhelming you.
As for maximizing efficiency not being the best for your team... One title this year away from having the best 4 year team run since Bill Russell's Celts tends to disagree. 53-6 in the last 59 regular season games hes played tends to disagree.
Eh, that's a bit of a leap in logic - who knows if the Heat could have done better in the regular season if LeBron went for 40 more often when his team was struggling offensively?
Let me just ask you this - if you were a Miami fan, would you be happy with LeBron only taking 17 shots tonight?
its possible they could be 59-0 in their last 59 if he merely shot more. Maybe they could have even won 2 championships last year rather than just 1.
Do you think D-Wade and Chris Bosh are protecting their FG% while posting career highs? And unlike Lebron these guys arent even big volume scorers any more. This is the way Miami plays. They are the antithesis of what people claim to hate about the nba. They take good shots, they don't play hero ball (although Lebron will when the situation calls for it in big playoff spots) they share the ball and work both sides of the floor, make the defense rotate. They post GOAT level adjusted FG%'s, not because its going to gain them any extra acclaim, but because thats the basic point of offense. Maximizing each possession
I can't find data for this year, but last year they ranked a very average 13th in % of baskets assisted.
And again, your point that because three elite players are winning means that LeBron is taking the exact optimum number of shots is pretty thin. In a game like tonight should he or shouldn't he have shot more?
You're wrong. They were 3rd last season in ast ratio, they are first this season entering tonight, see the link. Last years Miami Heat team set an NBA record for the highest Efg% in a single season. You're not doing that unless you're taking good shots
And if you spent a second watching last years playoffs or the 2012 playoffs, youd know Wade or Bosh both spent significant time laboring through one issue or aonther, and Lebron had to and did take on a bigger scoring role when necessary, But you want to build a point around December 5th against chicago and call my point thin. In other words, you saw something shiny tonight Link - ( New Window )
we're using different stats. I'm not sure how your stat makes sense as it would give a team with few turnovers and FTAs credit for being a good assist team.
I'm not sure why you're so defensive about LeBron. Do you really think he's an infallible player and, with respect to this issue, shoots the exact right amount every single game?
You'd probably agree with me that another all time great, Kobe, has probably shot too much over the course of his career. Do you really think its that far fetched to say that LeBron has a tendency to shoot too little?
I think our usual pro - anti LeBron routine probably prevents us from making legitimate points to each other on this topic.
I also think the topic of the optimum number of shots per player is interesting. I'm sure there's been some research on it. Obviously the more shots you take, the more difficult shots you have to take, but on the other hand, the fact that they are difficult means that teams are dedicating more defensive attention to the player which opens things up for teammates.
Lebron shoots too little. And thats something that i can sometimes agree with. Yet we're talking about the guy who trails only MJ and Wilt in career scoring average, and actually scores more in the playoffs than the regular season. Has never finished lower than 4th in scoring in any season outside of his teenage rookie year. His pure scorer resume speaks for itself. If Lebron James had no all around skills whatsoever, he'd be known as one of the great scorers ever. But he's so well rounded that people don't think of him as a scorer first
The fact that we;re discussing this only through the lense of raw scoring output is a flawed way of thinking in and of itself. Lebron's ability as an amazing and willing passer has elevated every offense he has ever played on to a different level. He has been the defacto PG on every team he has ever played on (and im just talking offense here, forget the versatile defensive assignments he has to draw or the rebounding load he has to carry). I think you just are stuck in a mindset molded from Jordan's style and Kobe's immensely watered down imitation as to what a dominant wings mindset should be. Lebron has a different set of skills and responsibility. And in terms of overall impact, he dwarfs Kobe and rivals MJ's peak, even though i don't think you can make a case hes clearly better.
and I'll just add one thing, not intended as a knock on LBJ. That fact that he's been such a good scorer without, until the last couple of years having much refinement as a score (reliable jumper, post moves) is just a mind boggling indication of how physically talented he is. He's not only physically talented - he has rare court vision - but that doesn't affect his scoring that much For years, he was a near 30 PPG scorer as a wing based in large part on just being dominant physically.
1. Watching the Bulls rebound and defend at premium level is fun to watch.
2. The Heat are one of the worst regular season teams to watch on TV, because you never know if they are going full tilt.
3. Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier will continue to be some of the worst regular season players, and then turn into all-world players once playoff time comes.
0 points on 0-9 from the floor in only 20 minutes. Bynum, 20 pts and 13 reb. in 26 minutes. Waiters, 30 pts on 13-20 from the field. Did Irving get hurt?
I refuse to buy them as a 50 win team. Not even sure I would bet on them being a 45+ win team. Some teams just refuse to put forth very good seasons. And I'm still not a huge fan of Wall. HE's an extremely talented player but I don't know if he has that Chris Paul impact on a franchise. Until I see otherwise he's closer to a MArbury type Chris Paul. PRobably unfair but just my take.
maybe the Knicks can steal Irving now that he's rock bottom?
but this trip raises your eyebrows even higher. To go into LA and beat the Clippers, into SA and beat the Spurs down in the 2nd half. Tough loss in Portland in a very winnable game. Take care of business in Utah. This is already a great trip
The pacers didn't have a go to guy last year and that finally did them in when things got difficult in Miami. The improvement in George this year has been astounding and I don't think they will have that problem again.
The Heat have the best player in the NBA and in my opinion the "Goat". However I think the Pacers are a better team. It'll be fun to see which matters more come playoff time.
I am not going to steal Joe's thunder, but Lebron is doing some insane shooting this year. Just a tad under 60% from the floor and 45% from down town. He is at 26.5/6/6 and his FT shooting is improved. But...
Kevin Durant is doing some work this year.
28/8/5. 47%/38%/88%
If he can somehow get it to 50/40/90 like last year, it will be tough to ignore him.
The Toronto Raptors have agreed in principle on a deal that will send Rudy Gay to the Sacramento Kings, multiple sources told ESPN. The deal is expected to be finalized on Monday.
The proposed deal involves seven players, with the Kings sending John Salmons, Greivis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes to Toronto in exchange for Gay, Aaron Gray and Quincy Acy. It was required to be a large trade to accommodate Gay's salary, which is more than $17 million this season. Link - ( New Window )
The Toronto Raptors have agreed in principle on a deal that will send Rudy Gay to the Sacramento Kings, multiple sources told ESPN. The deal is expected to be finalized on Monday.
The proposed deal involves seven players, with the Kings sending John Salmons, Greivis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes to Toronto in exchange for Gay, Aaron Gray and Quincy Acy. It was required to be a large trade to accommodate Gay's salary, which is more than $17 million this season. Link - ( New Window )
Interesting. I guess McLemore/Gay/Cosuins is an interesting trio. They need a PG though. If I am a guy like Rondo, I'd consider them in my FA look.
1. MIA (16-5)
2. IND (18-3)
3. SAS (15-4)
4. OKC (14-5)
5. HOU (15-7)
6. LAC (13-8)
7. POR (17-4)
8. GSW (12-9)
9. DAL (13-8)
Denver and Phoenix are in the mix for that 10th spot, but I can't see either team winning a round in the playoffs. Two very fun teams to watch with 2 young PGs leading the way.
Both teams are better than the Wizards imo, but the Wiz play in the much weaker conference so they have a far better chance of sneaking into the 2nd round. As of right now, I think the Wizards are the 3rd most dangerous team in the East. So the Wizards would probably get the 10th spot in this list but I see 9 contenders right now.
Memphis, Brooklyn, and the Knicks are the 3 teams who have disappointed the most this season. I still have all 3 teams in the Top 15 but that's based on what they "can" do, not based on what they have shown this year. Memphis is always a dangerous playoff matchup and one of the Knicks or Nets are still likely to get a number #4 seed and get homecourt in round 1. With D-Rose down, the #3 spot in the East is wide open and I expect the 2 NY teams to be back in that picture as the year progresses.
MVP Race:
1. LeBron
2. George
3. Durant
4. Paul
5. Aldridge
LeBron is better than ever offensively, but George and Durant are having monster years. Both guys aren't too far behind LeBron. CP3 is having a great year but the Clips don't look like the 60 win team many projected and as good as Aldridge has played, he's not on the level of the 4 guys above him here and I doubt he gets higher than 5th all year.
Hibbert looks like he has the DPOY locked up already as long as he keeps this up and stays healthy. It's pretty clear that right now, he is the best rim protector in the game and the anchor for the best D in basketball.
MCW is the ROY right now be a decent margin, but I expect one of Oladipo/Burke/McLemore to get hot and really close the gap. I think it'll be Oladipo at the end of the year.
MIP right now was Anthony Davis by a mile before he went down. Paul George may deserve the award again this year which would be crazy. There are other guys who have improved a ton. But this is Davis' award if he returns, stays healthy, and plays at a similar level as he did before the injury.
doesn't necessarily have HCA over the 5 seed IIRC. So that's going to hurt the Knicks/Nets a little, because they won't automatically get the HC for winning a division.
It will be a Lebron and Durant race like it usually is
Paul George can be in the conversation despite clearly inferior numbers compared to those two but only if the Pacers keep up this clip. He is going to need to milk the hell out of team success and win the award in a 2011 Rose kind of way. The voters won't think twice about including him in the conversation if they get the 1 seed. The minute the Pacers fall one game behind Miami or OKC though, his chances are dead on the spot.
I don't see anyone else entering the race. Not sure the clips will win quite enough for CP3. I expect the Blazers to level off and be closer to 50 wins than 60 wins. The Spurs will get a top 2 seed in the West but won't have an MVP candidate
If i had to handicap it i would probably make Durant the favorite, because voter fatigue is a real thing, and Lebron probably has to decisively be the MVP to get the MVP. If its close, tie generally goes to new blood, which would be KD. Plus Lebron is playing a career low in minutes this season and that may not change. The Heat want to lessen the regular season road on him given the amount of basketball he has played of late, basically 4 seasons worth of basketball in the last 3, and the olympics
were discussing the MVP race a bit ago. They both think that as long as LeBron is playing the way he typically plays (or even better as the case may be), it's tough to credibly argue that someone else truly deserves the MVP, in the same way that Jordan really should have won it 7 times instead of "just" 5. Why are voters motivated to give the award to someone else just for variety's sake? Makes no sense.
and their shooting percentages from the floor/deep
1. Durant 28.9 .474/.376
2. Lebron 25.4 .594/.444
3. Melo 25.2 .431/.294
4. George 25.1 .478/.423
5. Harden 24.6 .449/.302
The difference in efficiency for Lebron vs the other volume scorers is wholly unbelievable. Just ridiculousness. Yet at the same time, im not sure how much that actually breaks through to the typical MVP voter. Efficiency isn't really mainstream. Guys win these awards on a combo of raw individual stats plus team success. Lebrons raw stats are actually down this year. He isn't shooting as often, he isn;'t playing as many minutes. And his rebound numbers are down because he hasn't been as willing to mix it up with the sore back at times
On @SiriusXMNBA, NBA deputy commissioner Adam Silver said competition committee will look at whether divisions have outlived usefulness.
Jeff Zillgitt (@JeffZillgitt) December 9, 2013
Divisions in the NBA are utterly pointless. I have been saying this for years. They most often don't even come into play at all except for the odd instance where they wind up screwing someone over once every few years
and if you gave me a pop quiz on what division every team is in, i would whiff on several of them since they re-aligned and went to three divisions years ago. There is no incentive to even learn them since they literally don't matter at all outside of once in a blue where they make a mockery of the seeding process, like the way the Atlantic was shaping up earlier this season putting the Celtics in that 4 v 5 bracket.
You don't play your division rivals any more than everyone else in your conference. Hell when you click on the nba standings from espn, they don't even list by division as the first option. They list by conference, which is how 99.9% of nba fans view the league landscape
the 2nd most efficient player in the league will likely be in the running for mvp... big game brook
win 8 games in a row and will be back at 500... gulp
The Pacers are going to get their share of offensive boards, and when they can get it to Hibbert on the block its usually curtains. But from 15 feet and out, the Pacers aren't a great ball handling team, not a great passing team, and Miami;s traps give them fits. Turnovers have been a big problem for them today and it was the thing Vogel most singled out in a pregame interview as the thing they need to avoid
Lebron's energy level on defense this year was at a season high in that first half. He has erased Paul; George in this game, although their help defense was very good too.
from Miami in the 1st quarter was outstanding - maybe the best I've seen from them - Spurs-level stuff. They bogged down a bit with the 2's in the game and LeBron on the bench. Indiana looks kind of nervous, which is odd considering how well they've played Miami in the past two years.
and had the runner fall out at the buzzer. Miami as a team can't hit a three, 2 for 16. Battier being the worst culprit missing open looks all night. Indy up 4 at the end of 3.
just had a ridiculous finish to this Florida-Kansas game.
He has been pretty "meh" so far considering the hype, he is pretty damn raw skill-wise for such a talked about prospect. But his upside is still worthy of the hype imo.
just had a ridiculous finish to this Florida-Kansas game.
He has been pretty "meh" so far considering the hype, he is pretty damn raw skill-wise for such a talked about prospect. But his upside is still worthy of the hype imo.
Self needs to tell Wiggins to shoot more. I watched the whole game. They tried to work through the big Frosh who was horrible tonight. Wiggins should get 20-25 on that team no problem.
Unless Miami can find a way to get him out of his other-worldly rhythm against their small frontcourt, the Pacers are a huge threat to them. And thats not likely to happen unless Oden can physically build to a point where he can give them 15 minutes a night in a playoff series. They just don't have a body that comes close to giving any resistence
Awesome effort tonight by the Pacer D. Teams don't hold Miami down like that offensively. Miami also contributed though by being off on the perimeter all night. That was a D game by Lebrons standards even though the stat line is decent.
horrible guard play. Self has some work to do with those young guys. I'd be shocked if Kansas didn't end up a Top 2 seed, but they're clearly a team that is still trying to figure out its identity.
Wiggins definitely needs to be more assertive and take over the alpha dog role on this team. Self needs to understand this and he needs to tell his guards to look for Wiggins more. Hopefully this is the start of a more aggressive Wiggins.
at home isn't anything to write home about, but the Nets look like an actual legitimate basketball team with Williams back in the lineup. Scoring, taking it to the rim, and pushing tempo just enough to get some easy baskets. The Nets deserved the crap they've been getting because they shouldn't be losing by 30, but the injuries have been legit. They're just not that good without these guys, especially Deron.
Even getting Pierce back helped - he wasn't great, but at least it kept Teletovic on the bench. Between him and Tyshawn Taylor getting big minutes, it looked like the 12 win team. Those guys are just so bad.
(link) working out two weeks ago before a game vs the Raptors. Seems to be moving around fairly well. Miami is going to need him more than is likely ideal. It's such a big risk but hes the only body that can match up with Hibbert at all barring a trade. Indiana is a very good team, but they're not hanging with Miami in a playoff series unless Hibbert keeps up this out of character dominance. The Pacers basically have 2006 Shaquille Oneal when they play the Heat and thats not hyperbole at all
Heat have been very cautious with him. Actually played him in a pre season game for a couple minutes but havent used him since. And its not because he had a physical setback, its just extra caution. And those couple pre season minutes were all about clearing a mental hurdle Link - ( New Window )
Thats the question and why it was a big risk for Miami to only add him in the front court after watching what Hibbert did to them last year in the playoffs. They literally do not have a Center on the roster other than Oden. They have PF's who move over to Center and play in what Spoelstra loves calling his "positionless offense"
He's not going to be what he was, but 15 minutes of post defense on Roy Hibbert would really go a long way for Miami. He has the length and bulk to not get bullied down low by him even if hes lost a good deal of athletic ability
with Bosh at the 5. They're a better offensive team but have a ceiling on defense and on the boards. But something needs to be done about Hibbert if you're the Heat. Id try and trade for a backup big body too just to double down on my chances if Oden can't hold up physically. They can't keep having Roy Hibbert totally wreck them like this, otherwise its going to be very tough against this team especially without home court. This isn't last year, Indy is better, maturation of George, better depth, more experienced.
These teams will meet in the 2014 Conference Finals. If Roy Hibbert has a similar series to the 2013 Conference finals, Indiana is going to win the series
was very encouraging. the move of pierce to the bench has brought more balance for sure. less "cooks in the kitchen" on the first unit, and a leader for the second group.
Blatche is staying inside, and Deron had lift and legs. He does that his is a very good team.
its just a few games but they have an easy stretch starting (though on the road bak to back tonight will be tough)- so we could be sniffng 500 sooner then later.
Aldridge dropped 31/25 against Dwight and the Rockets
it was a ridiculously impressive performance. He carried that team to the win last night, Lillard had a rough 1-10 shooting night.
Portland is a very good team. I don't expect them to keep up this pace but they should win 50+. Aldridge is maybe the best offensive big in the NBA right. The 31/25 line looks good already but it's the way he gets his points that is so impressive. Lillard/Aldridge get all the hype but the reason the Blazers are here is because of Batum/Lopez/Matthews. Batum in particular is one of the most underrated players in the game, he's just a swiss army knife.
Good news for the Rockets is that Howard is getting on a roll now. Last night was the best he looked on the low block posting up all year. He flashed some nice moves from both the left and right block, including some pump fakes out of Hakeem's arsenal. The Rockets still look like they're missing an ingredient. They really need to trade Asik for player who fits better.
Its also a nice excuse not to play hard, DAntoni said. Thats a classic, ‘I dont know what Im supposed to do. Well, you dont have trouble getting up to the paystub line. You know what you need to do to get your check. You know what to do. They will. Theyll figure it out.
Thats one thing. They dont want to do it that way. I understand that. Thats when you have to accept it or not. But theres no reason not to play hard.
He has been extremely efficient and the Miami Heat offense has been clicking, but you'd still like to see LeBron be a little bit more aggressive. There is no way LeBron should be so far down on the FGA list when he is such a historically good scorer.
This is just an exaggerated version of a common trend with him
When you look at his career splits, he always starts this way scoring wise. His 3 lowest career scoring months are October, November and December. Then around January/February he kicks up the scoring pace and the shooting aggressiveness. Last season February is where he really began to explode away from everyone in the MVP race, averaged about 30 ppg, that was during their win streak
This year it has gone to an exaggerated level though. I think circumstances like the back, and reduced minutes have altered his approach some. He looked very athletic on Saturday though, best ive seen him look physically since he reaggravated the back issue in toronto
theyve been up and down, but they are 15 minutes away from having road wins against Miami and Indy on their resume'. Once they get clicking I think they will work their way to the plus side of .500 soon enough.
Jerry i know you dont like him, but when given a shot, with improved defense, hes been a big factor. he spaces the floor very well and moves the ball.
If he hit his 3's I'm OK with him. Problem is, for most of his time here, he's been a "shooter" who hasn't really shot that well. He was great against Detroit - really kept the Nets in the game. And the rest of his game has looked better recently. There are times when he's toxic defensively though - so overwhelmed that it's impossible to make stops. I don't think he can be relied upon in all matchups, but if he can come in and hit a couple of 3's from time to time, then there's some value.
Vid of Joe Johnsons aforementioned 29 point 3rd quarter
The Blazers are a league best 22-4. That means .500 from here on out gets them 50 wins. And theyve done this against a fairly difficult schedule, right on the edge of the top 10 toughest
Vogel can do what he wants. The over the back in the paint that wasn't called which led to the Allen 3 was brutal. I don't really think George was fouled at the end but it was 50/50.
It's just one if those things that teams will have to overcome. In a right game the Heat are going to get the benefit of the doubt. It sucks and I hope their luck ends this year. That team is insufferable.
That game was intense. Roy Hibbert in foul trouble and the Pacers still had every chance to win this game on the road. The Heat wanted this no matter how cool they try to act publicly about Indiana, Lebron probably doesnt even play tonight if they were playing Milwaukee. You got an A effort from both teams, and these two games went as you'd expect them to. Both teams protecting home court
We know theyre going to play in the conference finals. Id still give the Heat an edge, but Indianais absolutely capable of ending their 3 year reign as East champs
Indy is legit - they controlled most of the game without Hibbert and without much benefit from the verticality sham. You've got to hand it to them for coming up with a cool brand name that legalizes fouling. They're so well-balanced that they can still survive missing a key component though.
On the side, you wouldn't expect Miami to miss that many 3's too often. Great to see these games. Hopefully everyone is healthy for the ECF - it's going to be spectacular and I think the Pacers have real chance to win it. It's going to take everything that LeBron and Wade have + 3 point shooting for Miami to beat them.
Hibbert flops like a bitch all the time and somehow is always on the ground despite being a 7'0 300 pound guy makes them very unlikable.
George is easy to root for, but Hibbert is just a giant flopping peace of shit. He really deserves to get hurt on one of his flops, then maybe he would stop doing it
Wade is playing some great ball recently. This Tim Duncan rest program they have him on (which is even more exaggerated than Duncans at any point in recent years) is paying dividends. He's probably going to miss about 20 games by the time its all over for "precautionary reasons", but if that is what it takes to get him and his knees to the finish line in one piece, its the right thing to do
in a lot of ways is the new Riley Knicks. Not necessarily in the makeup of the roster, but just by their attitude and general identity. Dominant defense, mediocre offense, no fear, physical, a couple headcases on the roster. And their relationship to Miami is eerily similar to the Knicks-Bulls rivalry in that time. Last years Eastern Conference Final was basically the exact same series the Knicks and Bulls played in the 92 semis, with the Knicks surprising everyone by taking the Bulls to 7, and then getting blown out in game 7. It was MJ's 2nd title, just as it was Lebrons. In both situations the teams played the year before in the playoffs too when both got their initial championship (91, and 2012), but the 91 Knicks and 2012 Pacers were not yet what they would become
If form of the comparison holds true, Pacers get home court this year, just like the Knicks did. But the Heat still win the series. Lebron threepeats, then retires to go play baseball. Indiana makes the finals in a Lebron less league in 2015, and loses in 7 games. Lance Stephenson goes 2 for 18
Fractures hand on December 1st, expected to be out for 4-6 weeks. Comes back after missing just 7 games and drops 24/12 in his return against the Clips in a loss.
The Pelicans went all in this off-season on Tyreke Evans and Jrue Holiday. Gave Evans a 4yr/$44M deal and Holiday a 4yr/$41M deal. They wanted to win and they wanted to win now.
Holiday has been solid. 15/8/4 on efficient shooting with good defense. He also seems like a good locker room presence which is always a plus for a PG. He may still be overpaid because he isn't a Top 10 PG in this league and I think he has kind of reached his ceiling. But I think the Pelicans should be happy with what they've gotten out of him.
Evans has been awful. He is averaging 12/5/4 on awful shooting. He has a .404 FG% and is only shooting .091 from behind the arc! His eFG% of .409 is historically bad. I don't know how he's been as a defender but he's not a gamechanger on that end, seems pretty average. He has been a giant waste of money thus far.
Dropped a triple double yesterday and is only 24, I expect him to play better. But the Pelicans' roster just seems like a mess with Evans, Holliday, and Eric Gordon being the 3 highest paid players.
Pelicans seem locked into this mediocre supporting cast which is unfortunate because Anthony Davis is going to take over this league soon. I wish there was a way for a guy like Rondo to go to New Orleans, I'd love to see him and Davis on the same team (Kentucky connection too).
I've never seen a professional athlete treated like more of a bitch by his own team than the way the Miami Heat treat Mario Chalmers. They respect him sure, but the way LeBron/Bosh/Wade always rip into Chalmers on the court is pretty crazy. He is just constantly getting yelled at. I don't think it's necessarily a problem because it does seem like Chalmers is cool with all those guys off the court but it's just weird to watch.
is Toni Kukoc for much of his Bulls career. They treated him at shit at times. Jordan and Pippen didn't love Krauses infatuation with him, they used to go at him incessantly. Started in the 92 olympics before he even joined the team
OKC entering the night a league best 22-4 and coming off a win in San Antonio last night in impressive fashion, just lost at home to Toronto, blowing a 9 point 4th quarter lead. Durant shot just 5 for 16, coming into the night he was having an amazing december
Heat trailing by 7 with a little over a minute left, hits back to back threes and then gets the dunk on Millsap that youve probably seen if youve watched ESPN at all today. Ray Allen FTs send the game to OT. Heat win there, move to 21-6. Of all the teams to attempt to threepeat since Russell's Celts, none have been any better than 21-6 through their first 27 when making the chase that season. Not the 11 Lakers, 02 Lakers, 98 Bulls, 96 Rockets, 93 Bulls, 91 Pistons or 89 Lakers. Of course the weak east plays a role in that. Miami hasnt had to grind to get there, they are resting guys and limiting players minutes left and right
With 25 points tomorrow in LA, Lebron can pass Larry Bird on the all time scoring list. And it will have taken him 104 fewer games
After a rough stretch following the west coast trip they look to be playing well again. Granger even played in back to backs. I was hoping to trade him originally but I think our bench will need him against the heat in the playoffs now.
by I am not impressed with the west whatsoever. They have more "better" teams than the East, but Indy/Miami are clearly the two best teams in the NBA.
Houston plays no defense.
LAC has no legitimate wings
SA benefitted from injuries to other teams last year
Portland has looked good, but they may be a year or 2 away.
GS has no bench or defense
OKC is the only team that looks who can compete, but they match up horribly with Miami.
But they were doing well defensively before Iggy was hurt and they'll likely get back yo that level. Their terrible ball security and tendency to out-foul the opposition are both more detrimental to the team than their defense.
Their core and current big 3 is probably improved just from another year of development, especially Ibaka. But I really don't love the roster overall compared to the past 2 Thunder teams. Theyre going to miss that scoring punch from the Harden/Martin role. They aren;t a good shooting team from deep and are having their worst offensive season since they got their program off the ground. A couple of guys in their rotation are just deplorable. Kendrick Perkins is such a net negative, and I have no idea what Derek Fisher is doing in the NBA still. These are two guys who should be playing minutes on a contender right now. If they werent so cheap theyd have amnestied Perkins a while ago
All this said i probably would still pick them to win the West, They just own the Spurs. Match up incredibly well with them. I have similar reservations about Portland not being ready to truly contend yet. The Clippers and Rockets are both a move away.
two guys who should NOT be playing minutes on a contender
has more fouls than points scored this season. His rebound rate is by far the worst of his career and pretty deplorable for a big guy. His defense has always been overrated. He brings nothing to a team other than a chronic scowl and bewildered/enraged facial expressions every time he gets called for an illegal screen, which happens all the time. But he still gets all this weird respect on every Thunder broadcast for his intangibles. He is such an albatross its not even funny
Backcourt: (top 2 starters)
1. Kobe Bryant (LAL) 723,031
2. Chris Paul (LAC) 533,647
3. Stephen Curry (GS) 481,698
4. Jeremy Lin (Hou) 358,725
Freaking ridiculous. You knew the fans were going to do that with Kobe even though its dumb and he doesn't deserve it, but whatever. Lin 4th though? Being an asian in the NBA is like steroids for the all star voting as we often saw with Yao. Where are these votes coming from? China? Chinese in the United States? How the fuck is Lin 4th?
West Front court (top 3 are starters)
Frontcourt:
1. Kevin Durant (OKC) 850,728
2. Dwight Howard (Hou) 408,623
3. Blake Griffin (LAC) 399,357
4. Kevin Love (Min) 377,941
East Back court
1. Dwyane Wade (Mia) 565,455
2. Kyrie Irving (Cle) 524,000
3. Derrick Rose (Chi) 299,950
4. John Wall (Was) 210,988
East Front court
1. LeBron James (Mia) 854,105
2. Paul George (Ind) 712,808
3. Carmelo Anthony (NYK) 580,795
4. Roy Hibbert (Ind) 304,829
Paul
Curry
Durant
Aldridge (team success gets him spot over Love)
Dwight
Wall
Wade (shout out to Afflalo, under the radar but killing it)
George
LeBron
Hibbert
Not to nitpick but hasn't affalo been more of a 3 this year? Oladipo and Nelson have started a lot of games together.
And I can't believe I am saying this.... but I much rather see the NBA do what the NFL is doing and have a draft of the 24 people voted in. Obviously since the west has much better players.
The Washington Wizards' lone nationally televised appearance of the season has been wiped from the Feb. 7 schedule in favor of a game between the Portland Trail Blazers and Indiana Pacers.
The Wizards have their best record after 25 games in six years and are currently in the playoffs.
The Wizards haven't been on ESPN since April 14, 2010 and on TNT during the rookie season of John Wall.
does not count NBATV as national TV. Why? I don't know. Who doesn't get NBA TV? The wizards are actually on NBA TV tonight, and twice more this season.
The networks really went in hard on Laker and Bull telecasts this year and with injuries are seeing it blow up in their face. Not to mention all the Knick games
does not count NBATV as national TV. Why? I don't know. Who doesn't get NBA TV? The wizards are actually on NBA TV tonight, and twice more this season.
The networks really went in hard on Laker and Bull telecasts this year and with injuries are seeing it blow up in their face. Not to mention all the Knick games
Not every single cable system carries the NBATV. Mine doesnt for instance, so I am stuck watching those games online.
that sucks. I didn't know NBA TV had an issue with that. It was the first of all the league sport networks and has been around for approaching 15 years now
Wikipedia says nbatv is in 52.3% of households with cable
as possible, because it will give us the best possible finals no matter who makes it from the east.
Also, if OKC can maintain the 1 seed, I truly believe it will be Durants year for the MVP. The storyline will be there, the stats will be there, and the Lebron fatigue voting will be there.
Perfect storm for Lebron NOT to win it.
Steph Curry wih a triple double in just over twenty minutes
but i think the 2 best SF's in the history of the game are both active and in their prime right now
Kevin Durant is a legend. He's one of the best players in the history of the league, i have no problem saying that for a guy who just turned 25. The level he has played on the last few seasons is insane. Ive said this before, but were it not for Lebron we'd be talking about Durant in God like terms. And hed have won 3 MVPs by age 24, very possibly even a title too
Bird averaged more rebounds and more assists during his peak years.
No one would argue that LeBron and Bird are the 2 best passing forwards of all-time. I'd agree that the shooting is basically even. So where exactly is KD better? Is it solely because of his age? As far as the "almost" MVPs go, no one ever said Bird "almost" won more if not for Dr. J, Moses Malone, Magic, and Jordan. You either win them or you don't. KD is in the midst of an all-time stretch, but I can't say he's better than Bird. Yet.
Birds numbers are inflated vs Durant because of pace
You always need to keep that in mind when you compare a guy from the 80s to today. On a per possession basis, Durant's last three years compare favorably with any Bird year statistically, in fact Durants PER the last two years exceed any Bird season, and his WS/48 the last two seasons DWARF any Bird year. During Bird's prime seasons the league scoring average was 10+ points higher than today, and defense was primitive by comparison. When you look at rate stats Duran'ts pre 25 year old seasons compare just fine with Birds prime
Bird was the better passer and the better rebounder, and the better post up player who you could run your offense through on the block (though Durant will surely get more lethal in this area) but theres a bigger gap in their pure scoring ability than their raw scoring numbers would lead you to believe, especially when you adjust for era. Durant was a late surge from Carmelo last year away from working on scoring title number 5 consecutively this season (and by the way, he will be 25 years old all season), and his efficiency is just crazy. His Career True Shooting % of .595 is easily the best of anyone in the top 15 in career scoring average, more efficient than Shaq or Kareem. This is a guy with the length of a 7 footer, elite finishing skills and shooting touch, a release point you can't bother, and a scoring resume' that is on track to take a backseat to no one other than MJ adjusted for era
And Durant over the last season and a half is clearly a better defender than Bird ever was. With his length and athleticism it was only a matter of time. And while advanced stats like defensive win shares might overstate his case when they paint him as a top 5 defender each of the last two years, he's become a terrific defensive player.
I don't compare players solely by the amassing of accomplishments. I don't pretend to know how durants career will unfold and circumstances outside of his control will also effect him. But i feel very comfortable in saying Larry Bird was never any better than Kevin durant is right now. I'd take Kevin Durant right now over any version of Kobe too. As far as wings go i think his current peak trails only MJ and Lebron
This is a guy who just turned 25. Unless he has a rather odd career trajectory (ie a major injury or something else unforseen) he isn't even in his true prime yet. He is still about 2 years away from that.
I don't know how many titles KD is going to win. A good part of his career is overlapping with a GOAT short list candidate in Lebron who has already taken a ring and 3 MVPs away from him. He also plays for a penny pinching organization who has hurt his talent base to cut costs, and is now dealing with health issues to his sidekick that have to be alarming (3 surgeries for Westbrook in 9 months).
But the level hes playing on right now is nuts
Kobe was never on Bird or LeBron's level, so that's
I wish there was a way to compare the nightly level of competition in a 23 team league versus a 30 team league. While that may be just left to opinion, I'm fairly confident that there were more top level players during Bird's peak than there are now. So saying that "only" LeBron is keeping KD from this and that is as much of an indictment of league-wide talent than a compliment. Bird won 3 MVPs and finished 2nd four times to DR. J, Moses Malone (2x), and Jordan. He also finished 3rd another time behind Magic and Jordan. Heck, the years Bird finished in the top 5, look at the other players who placed in the top 5...
Jordan
Magic
Abdul-Jabbar
Hakeem Olajuwon
Moses Malone
Isiah Thomas
George Gervin
Charles Barkley
Bernard King
Robert Parrish
Dominique
KD is playing at a historic level, but I'm hesitant to say he's "better than" a guy whose accomplishments took place during a time when the league had better top-end competition.
You just grouped together like 20 years with that list and included guys who had very little overlap with Bird during the respective true prime years of their careers, many guys named were either pre prime or post prime when bird was at his peak. If I took the same license i could draw up a similar list for Durant that is as impressive or more impressive
I would also disagree with the caliber of competition today vs the 80s argument based solely on expansion. While there are more teams today than in 1984, its not like all else is even close to equal....
There are far more people playing basketball than in 84, its not even remotely close...and its tougher than ever to make the league even with more roster spots. In addition to regular population explosions that occur over three decade spans.... Participation rates have exploded over the past couple decades based on the work done by guys like Bird, Magic and MJ. Not only in the US, but more importantly the floodgates have opened on foreign participation over the last 25 years at a meteoric rate. There is a whole world outside of the US which is now competing for NBA jobs. The league is almost 1/4 foreign at this point. The team who came within a Ray allen three of winning a title last season had 10 foreign born guys on the roster, there weren't 10 foreign born guys in the league when Bird won his first MVP. The world landscape is different now and the pool of talent to draw from is far wider.
In 1984, being an NBA player was almost exclusively about being among the best in the US. Being an NBA player today is about being among the best on the globe. There were certainly guys in the short shorts era who couldn't play in the league today. And thats without even getting into other factors that have pushed the game forward from training to advanced understanding of tactics (especially on defense)
I admit im projecting ahead a bit when im talking about Durant. But I think hes incredible. By the time its all over i think he will be a top 10 all time player, whether he gets that credit mainstream or not will depend a lot on team success that contains factors outside of him
You just grouped together like 20 years with that list and included guys who had very little overlap with Bird during the respective true prime years of their careers, many guys named were either pre prime or post prime when bird was at his peak. If I took the same license i could draw up a similar list for Durant that is as impressive or more impressive
I should also add the following... Given Durant is only 25 and going to be around for about a decade, the list of names will only grow. We don't have the benefit of his whole career like we have with Bird to go through. Maybe i can add a Wiggins, or a Parker, or the tons of sub 25 year old talent in the nba with huge upsides in the future on this list too. Several guys on that Bird list weren't even in the league when Bird was 25, while others were past their prime. It basically combines a large period of time
Looking at the guys who have finished top 5 in the MVP voting
alongside KD, there's no way you could match the caliber of players like Magic, Jordan, Kareem, and Olajuwon "at this point". Perhaps down the line you can, although I doubt it. (BTW, Bird finished top 5 in the MVP vote 9 consecutive years so there's bound to be overlap on both sides with other guys. My basic point was showing just how damn good a player had to be to claim the award back then, beating out multiple top all-time greats instead of just 1 like LeBron.)
I agree that in terms of overall talent, the floor is higher than it was 30 years ago. I also think it's clear the top level talent isn't what it was, but we still have a ways to go in KD's prime. Maybe other players will step up to challenge LeBron and KD.
2 of the 4 guys you just named weren't even in the NBA yet when Bird was Durant's age, and didn't peak until Bird was past his prime. Your comparison from the start is entirely unfair. And Kareem was past his prime during most of Birds career. While Kareem won the majority of his titles in the 80s, he was the player of the 70s. During the majority of Bird;s career Kareem was playing reduced minutes with free falling rebound rates and limited defensive impact. The fact that he finished in the top 5 in 1984 and 1985 speaks more to the candidates at the time. Id take Tim Duncans 36 year old season (last year) over Kareems "top 5" MVP finish in his 36 year old season all day. Especially adjusted for pace and accounting for defense.
Durants early career has already overlapped with many future hall of famers and will only continue to do so. He is also playing in what is pretty inarguably the glory era for his position. With Lebron, himself, young Paul George, guys like wiggins and parker maybe on the way.
who were old enough to be NBA enthusiasts during the Bird Era will always tell you that even though he put up numbers like few others, his presence on the court simply couldn't adequately be encapsulated by stats. But even Bill Simmons will admit that Bird's career benefitted from great timing, and that he would have had a tougher road even 5 years later with the proliferation of more athletic defensive swingmen.
But the difference between them as scorers is a lot wider than the stats suggest when you adjust for era. And even if you don't adjust, its pretty clear. In terms of volume and efficiency Durant's edge is clear cut
The difference in true shooting % between Durant and Larry Bird is actually bigger than the gap that exists between Michael Jordan and Carmelo Anthony. It would be virtually the same as the MJ/Melo gap if you threw out MJs Wizards years. Not only is Durant the more accomplished volume scorer in a lower scoring era working on scoring title number 4, he is way more efficient. He's a better athlete, a better finisher, a better ball handler who has sick handle for his length. I'd argue he's a better shooter than Bird too. It's an apples and oranges comparison given how much more the three ball is a part of todays game compared to Birds era, but not only does Durant shoot a better % from three than Bird did, hes already made 100+ more career threes than Bird and hes 25 years old. Larry Bird had a better postgame. Id take literally every other aspect of Durants scoring skillset over Bird.
Kevin Durant Win Shares per 48 this season is a league leading .299, currently would put an end to Lebrons 5 consecutive seasons league leading streak. For some historical perspective, Durants 2013/2014 season to date is the 10th best of all time in this category, trailing only seasons by MJ, Lebron, Kareem and Wilt. Birds career high is .244
is anyone paying attention to this Bynum situation? He is totally dogging it in Cleveland and has basically been sent away. He won't play another minute for them, they are actively shopping him, and if they can't find a taker he is likely to be released before Jan 7 so the Cavs can save a boatload of money given the odd structure of his contract
Miami and the Clippers have interest. If he hits the open market he will probably go to one of those two teams. The Heat could SO use him. You double down with 2 medical red flag talented big men and take your chances that one is healthy come playoff time between he and Oden, even if only to give you 10-15 minutes a game
are just crazy when you compare them. Bird's career high in 3 pointers made is 98. That would've put him 58th in the league last year. For the 1st half of his career, Bird was attempting less than one 3 per game, and shooting it pretty badly - under 30% for 5 straight years.
Of course nobody was really shooting the 3 back then - he led the league with 90 makes in 87, which would've tied him for 69th in the league last year, tied with Charlie Villanueva. 20 years from now kids are going to wonder why us old guys call Bird a great shooter.
if Bird played today he would undoubtedly have shot and made more threes. But he played in an era where the three ball was new and as such was seen as a gimmick by a large part of the old guard, who didn't see the obvious value from an efficiency standpoint that advanced statistics have illustrated. In addition, defenses today make it harder to penetrate and force teams to attack from further away from the basket, so it has become a necessity
Bird was an awesome shooter. But im not sure how the case could be made he was a better shooter than Kevin Durant. I could see calling them equals as jump shooters. But if you include Durants finishing skills at the rim under the umbrella of his shooting, he's a better shooter than Bird.
I'd still take peak Bird over this version of Durant because he was a MUCH better passer and much better low post player. 26/9/8 during the '86 playoffs on 50/40/90 shooting. I think he was a better offensive player than Durant even though Durant is the better pure scorer.
Bird was also a good enough defender. Goofy white guy but good enough to make All-D 2nd team a couple of times. Durant's probably a better defender though now, his length is a problem for opposing offenses.
But at 25, Durant has already accomplished an insane amount. He's already cemented himself as a Top 5 pure scorer ever and the rest of his game continues to improve.
The funny thing is how so many people blame "dunks and athleticism" as the downfall of modern day basketball when in reality it's the advent of the 3pt line that has really changed the game stylistically. Watching an '86 Celtics game and then watching a Thunder game from today is like day and night, so it's tough to compare.
has only enhanced the game in my opinion. We must remember how relatively young the NBA was as a league during the 80s in the grand scheme. When Bird was drafted, the league was younger than Kobe Bryant is right now. Sports evolve, understandings of strategies and methods of attack improve. Schematically teams play in a different universe today. Scouting is infintely more advanced too.
It comes down to this with the three ball. The mid range shot is the least efficient shot in basketball. You'd need to shoot 50% in that mid range to give you the same bang for your buck as a modest 33% from three would. While everyone would always prefer paint points if they can get them, modern defensive concepts make it tougher to get to the rim and offenses have exchanged mid range shots for threes as an alternative
Defenses know the deal too. On a per possession basis, this current Pacer defense in playing on a GOAT short list level. And their defense is built exclusively around allowing mid range jumpshots whenever you want them. They close off the paint and chase you off the three point line, encouraging attacks in that 10-20 foot range. If you can take away the three ball and close off the paint, teams are going to have a tough time scoring. Teams are just smarter today
in the midst of another monster game tonight. He has been awesome. Hasn't even missed a beat coming back from his hand injury for the most part.
With no prior NBA track record and middling team success no one is going to call Anthony Davis a current top 5 player. But if you divorce yourself from this you can make an argument that hes currently playing on that level and hes 20 years old. I shudder to think how good he can be in his prime
Osi called his shot earlier this year, and im not ready to go GOAT territory, but this is at minimum a future MVP, probably more than once
you don't typically see. He pinned Mo Williams' layup to the backboard last night while jumping only around 6" off the ground. It was just a ridiculous display of his length and timing. He also had a couple of blocks on Aldridge's turnaround jumper and D'd him up well down the stretch including a GW attempt at the buzzer. He clearly outplayed Aldridge last night, a 28 year old in his prime PF who is in the early season mix for a Top 5 MVP finish.
Davis is going to be a special player as long as he stays healthy. He still hasn't completely shed the injury-prone label but coming back very early from a broken hand and immediately returning to superstar levels at 20 is pretty impressive.
Andre Drummond from the same draft also has a ridiculous ceiling. 13/12 this year at the age of 20 with insane defensive potential once he gets a better feel for defense in the NBA. But a .363 FT% is holding him way back. As of this moment he is looking like one of the worst FT shooters in the history of the game. He can become such a stud if he improves that FT% to a respectable level.
I haven't seen the Suns play yet at all this year, but by all accounts Dragic and Bledsoe is working phenomenally well as a tandem. It's amazing what Hornacek has that team doing.
The Cleveland Cavaliers and Chicago Bulls are discussing a trade-and-waive deal of Andrew Bynum for Luol Deng.
The Bulls would save in excess of $20 million in salary and taxes by trading Deng while waiving Bynum.
The Lakers are reportedly in on talks for a Bynum for Pau deal and would similarly immediately release Bynum too. All of this seems to come to a head by Jan 7th because there is a deadline to release Bynum by then and be off the hook for Bynum money wise. He looks like he will likely be a Free Agent within the next 10 days, and Miami and the clippers are said to have interest
2.6 PPG, 2.0 RPG, 0.2 APG with a .287 FG% and .556 FT% in 10.4 MPG
That is absolutely dreadful. It's still early but this guy has been historically bad in the early going. It may be too early to mention Kwame Brown, but right now it looks like Bennett could be that bad.
Just a very weak looking draft as of now. MCW/Burke/Oladipo are the only 3 early draft picks who are impressing right now. Antetokounmpo is another guy who is interesting.
One of the most impressive offensive displays of the season. Curry set a season high in scoring for a Heat opponent with 35. He finished 13 for 22 from the floor and 8 for 15 from downtown, but he was even hotter than that before he tailed off late with a bunch of crazy heat checks. David Lee was a monster too with 32 and 14
The warriors have won 7 in a row now and are rounding into form after a sluggish start. They've been playing great defense. I don't know who id pick out of the West at the moment, but i don't think its nuts at all to consider them. They have all the ingredients
the Nets win a single game, which isn't that often, I always end up immediately checking the standings thinking that the one win will put them in playoff position in the horrible East. It never does, but it's not that far off. The East is so bad.
Really thought they were ready to step up this year. Yo ureally have to wonder if Wall is a guy that makes a team go. Sure, his numbers are pretty, but when you are under .500 in a pathetic East, your team isnt good.
one intentionally, but he couldnt hit the rim to give the Wolves a chance
Durant hit a go ahead shot with 4 sec left to put OKC up 2, incredible 4th by him. Love gets fouled on the next possession while shooting a three, missed the first 2 FTs then missed the 3rd intentionally. He also missed another FT after a potential AND-1 with 27 sec left
After several days of stalled talks, the Los Angeles Lakers and Cleveland Cavaliers made progress Saturday on a trade that would involve Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum, sources told ESPN.com.
MVP voting were held today who would be MVP? I feel like the media darling is Paul George (he's awesome, don't mean it as a knock). Would he win MVP over Durant and Lebron?
They are working against a Jan 7th deadline with Bynum
so if thats going to happen it should happen over the next 48-72 hrs, release him before Jan 7th and you basically don't owe him shit as i understand. That's what the Lakers plan to do when they acquire him in this trade unless something recently changed. Bynum should be a FA shortly
id have Durant and Lebron 1/1a, it is very very close
There is a sizeable gap between them and George, i wouldn't put it past the voters to overly rely on team success and put George in the mix, but he doesn't belong
I wasn't implying I felt George was MVP. I just feel like the narrative regarding George in the mainstream media is he's the "new superstar" coming off the breakout year last year and Lebron and Durant have "done this" before. I feel like George would have more support than the pure numbers would suggest.
makes sense to me. yeah he's sucked but c'mon. The guy has elite size and has at times been an all-star caliber big. In fact, usually guys dumped in these situations are total turd (Curry etc) but Bynum has a more than 0 chance of actually being an asset. If the Knicks were "good" I think most people would be clamoring to pick him up.
honestly haven't been paying too much attention to the NBA the past few weeks, didn't realize MCW continues to have such a beastly rookie season. 17.2, 7.3 assists , 5.6 boards, 3 steals? wow
MVP voting were held today who would be MVP? I feel like the media darling is Paul George (he's awesome, don't mean it as a knock). Would he win MVP over Durant and Lebron?
I dont even have George 3rd.
I have...
1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Aldridge
4. George
5. Love/Curry
the best non Lebron season in a decade. You'd have to go back to one of Shaqs years at the turn of the century IMO to find the last season clearly superior to the one Durant is currently having if you exclude Lebron's best 3-4 years.
I'd give Durant the slightest of edges right now over Lebron but its important that they stay afloat here over these next 25 or so games without Westbrook. No Westbrook will definitely be a boost to his numbers but there will be a tradeoff with wins and team success matters a ton. They've already dropped 2 games that they certainly win if Westbrook played
Durant was probably ahead of Lebron at this point last year too. Then Lebron kicked it into another gear and left everyone in the dust. November and December have never been his peak months
probably going to happen tomorrow. Total cash save for LA to avoid the luxury tax and the trigger of a repeaters penalty, they basically save 20 million dollars by the move once they officially release Bynum before Tuesday, because Bynum's contract is structured to where you owe him nothing if you release him before that date Link - ( New Window )
their next 4 are against sub .500 teams. The franchise record for consecutive wins is 11. They should break that
Lebron with 30 on 12 for 18 shooting in a win over Toronto. Pacers survive a scare against an Irving-less Cav team. Knicks taking it to Dallas right now. Unreal how well theyve played on this texas swing
Ive only seen him play the one time vs Duke, but a rough effort today and hes really having an underwhelming year statistically compared to the hype. Parker is putting up way better numbers. On top of that Kansas started the season a top 5 team and are probably going to fall into the 20s when the next poll comes out
its going to very interesting where Wiggins goes in the draft
he's obviously an athletic freak, but athletic freak wings with underdeveloped skills don't always get drafted high like athletic freak bigs with underdeveloped skills.
Parker and Randle both seem to have no problem adjusting to the
college game. Parker reminds me of Melo, a SF-type who wouldn't be able to guard SFs in the NBA. Randle is a pure PF and a great rebounder. He's athletic too. I feel sorry for Wiggins... the last 2 young guys to get over the top hype before playing have been seen as "disappointing" (Barnes). It seems like more people who watched Kansas fell in love with Embiid than Wiggins, although the comparisons for Embiid have been a bit crazy too.
I wonder if the college game restricts what you can see athletically from some of these guys?
and off the top of my head I can't think of many I have ever disliked more, I think he is the better player. Of course you had to have watched him play a lot to truly appreciate everything he was as a player and what he did on the court. Looking at stats alone is a difficult way to compare players from different era's.
to feel confident in my evaluation of him, hes an 80s player not a pre merger player, there is tons of Bird game footage out there and i lived through the tail end of his prime. I think you need to get more familiar with Durant. At the same age, its actually not even close, Durant is significantly better. Bird like most NBA legends didn't peak until his late 20s, early 30s. Durant is still several seasons from that. I shudder to think what he will be doing in his prime and true peak. And if it somehow never gets any better from here on out for KD (which is doubtful) he is peaking at a top 10-12 level
This guy is legendary good. Never seen a skillset like his especially in that freak frame
And definitely not to be excited if the Warriors past is any indication. But also, they need to cool it with the turnovers and foul happiness or they won't beat out a team like the Spurs, who can just sit and watch the Warriors fumble a win away even with Duncan, Parker and Ginobli on the bench.
i vaguely remember you saying something about passing up tickets for the OKC game (the game where igoudala hit the buzzer beater) to go to that spurs game you just mentioned, rough luck. Hope you still had fun though
I hope we get to see a playoff rematch between the Spurs and Warriors. The Warriors gave them all they could handle last year and are now a year more experienced, a couple moves more talented (Iggy and a healthy David Lee which you did not have in last years series), and rounding into ridiculous form now that they have everyone healthy and are molding their chemistry and identity with this group. Theyve been great defensively
Its all about health. Curry is always an ankle roll away. You cross your fingers Bogut continues to stay healthy. And you hope nothing unforseen pops up like David Lee last year
that Westbrook is healthy, Id go OKC in the West. But three recent surgeries i have zero confidence until he gets past this
I don't mean to underrate the machine that is SA. Theyre right there and will probably be the 1 seed. But last years near title run aside, theyve been underwhelming in the postseason in the post prime Duncan era. And the stars aligned as much as possible last season for them to make the run they did. No Westbrook. Golden States injuries and general big game rawness, No Kobe in round 1 although it wouldn't have made a difference. Then DWade limping around the floor in the finals getting a Heat team that was a shadow of its regular season self even while winning a title
They've played like the sloppy team they often are and have fallen behind. I forgot to add poor FT shooting to turnovers and fouling as the problems that better be corrected less they get ousted from the playoffs early.
that would be a very impressive win. Nice to see both the Knicks & Nets playing better. I'm going to the game on MLK day and would love both teams to continue to play strong and have the game have some juice.
but it's not *that* impressive, like beating OKC in OKC was. The Warriors had just played the night before in Milwaukee in what was a very oddly scheduled road trip (from DC to Milwaukee back to Brooklyn). They were getting sloppier and sloppier as the road trip went on and it was bound to catch up to them.
Fortunately for them, they actually have more than two consecutive days off coming up and can use it to figure out why they turn the ball over like Eli Manning.
What a game and atmosphere.
A pleasure to see curry in person for the first time.
Livingston played great using his size. I was screaming in the 4th "that's 20 10 and 5 kg!". Finally looked great! Mirza with 10+ boards.
A great win without deron and lopez done.
Gs looked tired down the stretch, and 1 thing is they lack a creator outside of curry.
Was a fight with a piece of trash nets fan (jets jacket on) and a annoying warriors fan I got doused with beer.
Arena is such a pleasure to watch a game.
Broooook lyn
you are right about them lacking a creator outside of Curry. They're giving Andre Igoudala a bunch of minutes at backup PG this year. Jarrett Jack was a loss even though he has struggled in Cleveland. They've been linked in talks to backup PG types in recent weeks including talks for Andre Miller.
On his way to another monster night. He has scored exactly 48 in two of his last 3 games. His numbers since Westbrook went down are beyond nuts. The team has been up and down during this run though with Westbrooks absence, lost a couple heartbreakers.
not much has been said about the fact that it is OUR Mark Jackson (St. John's and Knicks, plus too many others) coaching this hot SF team, after no one else in the league would give him a shot.
He is only 48, so he could have a very long coaching career ahead of him.
you do not wrap around the neck...i am no Lebron lover but i dont blame him for reacting that way....its like undercutting someone who is in the air you just do not do it...
this is a good game...give nets credit no Deron no Lopez playing hard...you can tell Lebron wants to win this game
And I don't believe he grabbed his neck on purpose. He was wrapping him up to prevent a possible basket and foul situation. There's nothing wrong at all with what he did in my opinion.
And I don't believe he grabbed his neck on purpose. He was wrapping him up to prevent a possible basket and foul situation. There's nothing wrong at all with what he did in my opinion.
I understand what your saying...what i am saying is every player will react the same way whether it was intentional or not...I never said Teletovic wanted to do it on purpose i am just saying whenever arms get close to the neck every player reacts the same way and i dont blame them
so its tough to complain, but with Lebron fouled out and already no Wade and the team playing its 5th game in 7 nights and being dead ass tired in this marathon, im stunned Miami didn;t go for the three and the win at the end of the first OT. As soon as Cole hit the shot i knew it was over for Miami
Miami had no shot in double OT. The "go for the win on the road" cliche was never more appropriate. Such a little nitpick in the grand scheme though. Great win for Brooklyn.
I thought same thing, Miami should have put up a 3, it hits they win, it misses they lose. They were going to lose in OT anyways without LeBron and Wade
Doug collins just agreed with both of us at halftime of Lakers/Clips game, literally less than a minute ago. I don't know if JVG and Breen said anything about it, i was watching on YES. Fratello and Eagle didn't bring it up
just gave the Warriors a scare but Steph Curry hit a game winner with 2 sec left
Clippers now 3-1 without CP3, although the competition has been questionable and they have a ton of road games upcoming. Theyre murdering the Lakers tonight and Blake with 33 pts 12 rebs 4 ast 4 stls in only 30 min on 12/15 shooting. He is really having a monster year.
The Pacers defense this year is borderline GOAT level statistically. Tonight they hold the Wiz to 66 pts on 32% shooting. Roy Hibbert has Defensive player of the year on LOCKDOWN and it should be unanimous, no one is close right now to having his impact defensively. More than anyone in the NBA statistics fail to do his impact justice. Theyre now 3 games ahead of Miami in the loss column for top seed in the East, and they're doing it with an offense in the bottom half of the sport
has been huge for the nets showing a pulse. he is hitting his mid range fade away and getting boards again.
Livingston is also playing really well defensively.
7 seed and climbing... at 5 games under 500. comical.
Nice win.
If you called the Pelicans, the Cavs or any of those teams and offered this years first pick for their (franchise) guy, theyd fall over laughing, says a Western Conference personnel guy.
Its tough to see the surefire "you can win a title with this guy as your best player" prospect in this draft. Wiggins has been "meh" all season. Parker has a nice set of skills but holes in his overall game and has really tailed off recently. Ive seen very little of Randle, but i wonder if hes going to be able to use the bag of tricks that has largely worked for him in college at the next level, abusing people in the post.
All three could be all stars. But this aint 2003. All this hype about this draft hasnt met expectations so far
Seems like a hell of a coincidence that 2 of the top 4 defenses of all time were from one particular year? Is there a way to track offense per 100 possessions for the entire league? Perhaps offenses were down that year? Does that even make sense?
has been the floor general for the cuse... and he is a pick your spot guy, not a dominant player with an outside game.
that says a lot about this overhyped group.
wiggins in my opinion just isnt that good. Felipe Lopez had a better freshman year ... gulp.
i like randle and parker.
has the athleticism and the frame where if he keeps improving and matures he could be something fairly special at the NBA level years down the line, but people were too enamored with where hes at now.
He's not going to come into the NBA next year and take anyone by storm. I see some Paul George in him although no two players are alike and i don't like making comps. I think he will have a similar career arc too. George was no more advanced at this age than Wiggins is, and is just now in year 4 at the NBA level (year 6 removed from his HS class) playing like a legit top 10 player. I expect Wiggins to improve his skill level every year going forward
The biggest concern i have about Wiggins is his lackadasical (sp?) demeanor and whether or not he has the personality to be the leader of a franchise, its been a knock on him for a while now. Some saw those issues in George too, but he fell into the lap of a culture in Indiana that has toughened him up. He even talks differently now, like all the Pacer bullshit has rubbed off on him
i don't mean bad work ethic or doesnt give a shit. Im just talking floats through games, doesn't always assert himself offensively, can blend into the scenery etc
i excerpted with the quote from a West GM. Here is more....
Quote:
Theres zero chance of any team taking anybody before Jabari Parker, says an Eastern Conference personnel guy. And theres zero chance of any team taking Wiggins before Joel Embiid.
article makes the same Paul George comparison I did with wiggins. I didn;t know that before making my post, didn;t read the full article. Not that comparing Wiggins and George is somehow unique, a lot of people have made that comp Link - ( New Window )
no GM is going to pass on an incredibly safe pick like Jabari Parker for the ultimate high reward/high risk player in Wiggins. Parker is going to be one of the safest prospects to enter the league in years imo. GMs love guys like that.
Wiggins still has a lot of work to do on the dribble and with his shot. People overrated how good he was as of right now. But based on everything I've seen, I view his potential just as highly right now as I did at the start of the season. His offensive ceiling may be a little lower than I thought, but his defensive ceiling may actually be higher than I thought.
Embiid has clearly surpassed Randle imo. Defense is just that important.
But now is the time to really start paying attention to Freshman, January/February when it's about the conference and the Frosh have adjusted to the college game from HS.
I just got done skimming through the Kansas game which i tivo'd
Embiid just completely blew me away. This dudes ceiling is insane. Im glad i caught him on a night where he played this well. He just started playing basketball at 16.
but he is atrocious defensively. His offensive game is very polished but I don't think he has Wiggins potential, despite Wiggins getting off to a slow start.
Wiggins had 19 rebounds tonight, pretty crazy. Iowa State is really good and Hoiberg is a great coach. Great win for kansas
Parker has had a few mediocre/shitty games in a row including a poor performance tonight
He did play in one preseason game against the Pelicans very briefly, but by all accounts that was just to throw him a bone for some of his progress. The long term plan was to get him on a big leg lifting regimen to strengthen the muscles around his knees, and thats what hes been doing for the past few months. Apparently he's ready to go (for now). Im pulling for him
Clips 4-1 without Chris Paul. Blake Griffin averaging 24 pts 8 rebs 6 ast 2 stl shooting 57% during this span. They beat the Mavericks tonight in a 129-127 thriller. Trailed by 17 with under 5 minutes left. 23-4 run in the final 4:35
Houston scored 73 points in the 1st half tonight, and finished the game with 92. Only 19 points in the 2nd half, set an NBA record for largest disparity in points scored between halves.
It wasn't KD's best shooting night but he made up for it by getting to the line a ton and finished the night with 36 pts 7 ast and 5 rebs. He has been incredible since Westbrook went down but they're only 6-5. Rough schedule, some heartbreaking losses, and this supporting cast minus Westbrook has serious holes
31 career games
48 career fouls
26 career turnovers
29 career field goals made
His current PER is a whopping 1.1
This is what an all-time bad rookie season looks like. I hope he shows something these next couple of months but his career has been nothing short of pathetic so far. He was supposed to be the 2nd coming of Grandmama, but it turns out he just plays like a grandma.
Curry and Klay also going off for the Warriors. Another great one between OKC and GS, these two play awesome games, im dying for a playoff series between them
that second quarter made me want to drink anti freeze
at the halfway point. Its pretty tough to argue otherwise. Lebron is still the best player in the league but the gap has never been this small since LBJ took over that consensus designation in the 09 season. Durant has been beyond incredible.
the type of numbers KD could put up if he played a full season without Westbrook. He's averaging over 36 a game since the RW injury. Of course he'd sacrifice team success, but having to take on that heavier scoring load he would probably author one of the more amazing pure scoring seasons in history
at what point do we look at Portland as a team who could legitimately win the West, and not just a nice story? I'm not there yet, but damn... Winning in San Antonio last night and now beating the brakes off the Mavs in Dallas
Heat got an OT win in Charlotte without Wade. Lebron with 34-8-6 on 13/25 shooting. Started 5 for 5, then missed 9 in a row and during this stretch got dunked on by Ramon Sessions, then finished the game 8 for his last 11 and led them to the W. Just a bizarre night
31 and 17 for Anthony Davis but they lose to Golden State. Keep an eye on the Warriors in the 2nd half of this season, theyve had a crazy disparity between road and home, played 8 more road games than home games and have a ton at their place to make up.
are about to win in Golden State barring a miracle. Would make them 33-7 with 5 of their 7 losses coming on the 2nd end of a back to back. With at least a day off they've only lost twice all year. They're even 11-2 against the tougher Western Conference
They are so locked in night to night right now its ridiculous. They're going to be the 1 seed
I'm ready to call the Pacers the favorite for the NBA title right now, or atleast the co-favorite with Miami. They have a 5 game lead over Miami in the loss column to put them in position to have HomeCourt over the Heat and everyone else. Why should that matter? Because they're 21-1 at Home!
I think Miami's still the team with the higher ceiling so I could see them turn it on at the end of the regular season and then go into Indy and beat them in the playoffs. But 3 straight Finals appearances and 2 straight titles take a lot out of you come playoff time. Barring injury, everything points to an Eastern Conference showdown between Miami and Indiana.
In the West, I think that there are 6 teams who can realistically make it to the Finals. But OKC/SAS are still the cream of that crop imo. Those next 4 teams are bunched in so close together, tough to rank them.
MVP Race:
1. Durant
2. LeBron
3. George
4. Aldridge
5. Curry
It's really a 2 man race at this point between a career-season from Durant and an insanely efficient but kind of coasting season from LeBron. It really depends on 2 things. How Durant and the Thunder continue to play after the Westbrook injury, and if LeBron and the Heat flip a switch in the 2nd half. But right now it looks like Durant's year to grab that elusive MVP award, not too different from Barkley in '93 where we all knew that MJ was still the league's alpha but Barkley was close enough and went harder in the regular season.
Paul George is a pretty rock solid 3rd imo. He's not going to catch LeBron or Durant barring injury, but he has a pretty safe lead over the next tier of candidates. Aldridge has been in that Top 5 convo for a while now but I expect him to be passed up by a couple of players as the year goes on. I think Curry is one of those guys, he could even catch George with a great 2nd half.
That's exactly how i have it, except i think George and Aldridge are a little closer.
George doesn't have a guy like Lillard next to him putting up pretty numbers, and the gap between him and the Pacers 2nd scorer could lead to more perceived value due to that, but the Pacers right now are winning because of a goat level defense, not their mediocre offense. And while George is a great defender he is not even the biggest reason on his own team for that, Hibbert is. He should be a unanimous DPOY and i think he's at least 90% as valuable to Indiana as George is right now, even though the numbers don't show it
I do expect Portland to tail off some, but ive been expecting it for a month and they keep it up in a tough west. We'll see
and he is the offensive centerpiece of that team. But I think Paul George's 2 way dominance makes him a clearly better player, and one who is more valuable to his team.
Hibbert is definitely the key to that defense, he's the DPOY and best rim protector alive. But George's perimeter defense plays a huge role in Indy's scheme. Hill/Stephenson/West is a good but nothing special defensive group. What makes Indy's D so insane is having the best rim protector in Hibbert and a Top 5 wing defender in George.
And he combines that elite perimeter D with the 6th most threes made in the NBA on 40% shooting. The 3&D player has become such an important part of today's NBA, and Paul George is basically the ideal 3&D player. He's averaging 23/6/4 on top of the 3&D stuff as a 23 year old.
Melo finished 3rd to KD/LeBron last year. I would take 2014 George over 2013 Melo. I wouldn't take 2014 Aldridge over 2013 Melo.
narrative is out there - it's pretty accurate - and along with voter fatigue it's probably going to be enough to propel Durant to the MVP. The Heat just look bored out of their minds at this point, to the extent that they aren't even that fun to watch anymore. LeBron's intensity has gone from outstanding to adequate, but at least he keeps it professional and he has stretches where he really brings it. Wade has games where he'd look like one of the lazier players in a pick-up game.
Really doesn't matter too much for them though. Bottom line for Miami, they have a (max) 14 game season that starts in the middle of May and they'll have to win at least one game in Indiana. That's all they care about.
George
23.2 pts 6.2 rebs 3.5 AST 22.6 PER .460 FG% (.590 TS%)
George has more impact off the stat sheet than Aldridge because of his defense. The numbers themselves are close, and apples and oranges between a big and a wing. Give George a nod for his superior efficiency on offense in TS%. Aldridge though is spearheading the best offense in the NBA right now. And I think you need to grade team success on somewhat of a curve because of West vs East
If i had to allocated 1,000 MVP worthiness points between the top 4 candidates, Id do it as follows
Durant 450
Lebron 300
George 140
Aldridge 110
I think theres a bigger gap this season between KD and Lebron than there is between George and aldridge. Ive seen all but a handful of Heat games this year and Miami is in coast mode, conserving energy for another deep playoff run. Lebron is still putting up numbers, but this is probably Lebron's worst defensive season since he became an elite defender in 2009. Kevin Durant isn't the defender Lebron is when he is locked in, but on a night in night out basis I think KD has actually been more impactful this season defensively. Rebounds are down too for LBJ because he hasn't been as willing to mix it up night to night (he has also been dinged a bunch).
Durants season has just been incredible. He has too much going in his favor right now for anything barring injury to derail him from the MVP. The narrative of him keeping OKC afloat without Westbrook in a tough West will help his case as well. And then theres the Lebron fatigue that we've always talked about, which Durant doesn't even need at the moment but won't hurt.
LBJ could be poised for a huge 2nd half but Im not sure how much that changes the conversation as the Heat are probably locked into the 2 seed for every single day the remainder of this season
He's shooting 42% overall, but 44% from three point range and 90% from the line.
Lillard is the poster boy for standard FG% not telling the whole story in efficiency. Almost half his FG attempts are threes and no one is going to have a pretty FG% with shot selection like that. But when you adjust for the value of the three ball (which stats like TS% and Efg% do) he's highly efficient.
Lillard has a True Shooting % this year of .586. By comparison Tony Parker is at .570. Lillard has been the more efficient scorer. In terms of standard FG% though, no one would think that way when its Parker 51 vs Lillard 42
from what i can gather he and the team gambled with an alternative approach to surgery when they found out the tear was only partial. And it backfired on him and got him nowhere. Sounds like he may have been gun shy on getting the surgery done, and someone got in his ear about alternative nonsense, and here we are. Its so stupid.
on 6/8 shooting. another monster night in progress it looks like
Greg Oden just had a hell of a 20 second stretch in this Heat game. Blocked a Jeff Green dunk attempt and then followed up a Lebron miss with a putback dunk. He looks rusty as hell out there but hes shown flashes in these limited minutes since he came back
Durant was hot as fuck to start this game, took his normal rest at the end of 1, now we have 4:30 left in the 2nd and he still hasn't come back in the game yet. The broadcast makes no mention of an injury, this is just inexplicable. almost as inexplicable as his ridiculous loyalty to scrubs like Perkins and fisher
They're playing better ball, but they're going no where fast besides a first round playoff exit. And it's not going to get better going forward, either.
Both NY franchises have no future right now, at all.
Knicks can start over slightly quicker, but they'll fuck that up, too
and now he ices it with a 3 over Batum. 43 points on 16/24 shooting, 5/6 from downtown. Might get a few more garbage points at the FT line if Portland plays the foul game late
Another magic night in a magic season. This guy is playing on a level right now that rivals anyone not named Jordan or Lebron at the wing position
This is one of the GOAT wing seasons. I don';t buy into Win Shares as the end all be all, but entering tonight he had a higher WS/48 than ANY season by Jordan or Lebron or any other wing player in history this year. And it should only rise off tonights effort
This dude is an all time great. Barring injury he will go down as top 10 best ever. Age 25, now hes going to have an MVP award to go with his 3 second place finishes
Largely agree, but... in the Eastern conference I'd be shocked if Brooklyn didn't win their first round matchup. They're just better than everyone else in the East.
they are 18-22, so while they probably will be favored to win 1st round matchup if they win the division, there is a reason they are 18-22 at this point, they simply are not all that good in a lousy conference and you can never rely on Deron Williams to stay healthy
We'll see. I think Brooklyn is clear-cut the #3 team in the East right now. They play very good defense and move the ball on offense. They seem to have figured out how to play together. Not like they've played bad teams during this run either, they're beating some high quality squads.
Unless this is a mirage, I can't imagine them losing a seven game series to Charlotte or Chicago. They would lose in 4 to a healthy Miami or Indiana team. But, oh well.
its a mirage and I think you should have learned a lesson after last years Bulls series when they had a worse team than they will put out there in the playoffs this year and still beat the Nets
Since they have gone small ball.
The d is better. The ball is moving.
They have 5 weapons on the court at all times.
Its an entirely different team then chicago series, where they had 2 guys starting who get zero minutes for the nets and celtics this year.
is obviously a dogfight right now and there's probably a big 6 that could cause each other problems in the playoffs, so there's real value in finishing top 2 in the conference. Right now GSW is in the 6 spot, only a game up on Dallas, but the Warriors have an easy 2nd half schedule and I think most would agree that their playoff upside is much higher than the Mavs.
With their win last night OKC went ahead of Portland by a game for the #2 spot. It's something to keep an eye on, especially for the Blazer, who probably don't want to face a Golden State or Houston in the 1st round.
Chicago gives: Noah, Dunleavy, Hinrich, Mike James, and future Chicago Pick.
OKC gives: Westbrook and Perkins
OKC lineup:
Jackson
Sefolsha
Durant
Ibaka
Noah
Reserves:
Hinrich
Dunleavy
Adams
Lamb
Collinson
The injury to Westbrook and his knee maybe problematic for the rest of the year. We all know Perkins sucks. Getting Noah and Hinrich drastically improves their defense. Dunleavy gives them a shooter to pair with KD. The Bulls take a chance with Rose/Westbrook backcourt. As a Bulls fan, I wouldnt be oppose to this whatsoever. Bulls can then try to grab a top Center in the draft.
I am just looking for the Bulls to do something drastic. Whatever they are doing is just not working that well.
in favor of that trade, just to see what a Rose/Westbrook backcourt would look like.
I just don't see any way OKC gives up Westbrook and this core right now though. If they'd kept Harden, maybe. Then they'd still have a legit 2nd scorer. If they'd gone through a couple of healthy post-seasons with this group and failed to win a title, maybe. Then they'd have more incentive to shake it up.
Plus Thibs would probably have some kind of nervous breakdown after losing Deng and Noah in the same year, and that would be sad.
Just hit a beautiful one foot runner to give him 27 pts on 9/13 FG mid 3rd quarter. OKC up 2. If they win tonight it would make it 9 of 11 vs SA including playoffs.
about to win tonight to make it 9-2 including playoffs since they fell behind 0-2 in the 2012 Western Finals
Durant had a sloppy night at times turnover wise, but was beasting as usual otherwise until he dinged his shoulder, then didn't do much of anything for a long stretch of the game, often wincing in pain. Just when you worry though he knocks down back to back threes late in the 4th to essentially ice the game. Big 4th for Reggie Jackson as well
Durant has 35 pts 7 rebs 5 ast on 12/22 shooting with a minute left in the game. Even though he knocked down those two late threes, i still want to hear hes perfectly OK health wise
Every hated on him last year... hated on him to start the season... the guy never got a real shot. Kidd has given him minutes, and he is showing off a real NBA game. Deadly 3pt shooter, moves the basketball, a much more competent defender... a heck of a NBA role player.
Avery thanks for not playing him last year... glad big game reggie evans got all that burn. u might still have a job.
go nets.
I got suckered in during their win streak and began to view them as a legit threat to win the West, time to dial back. They have the talent to play with anyone but just way too inconsistent right now
Indiana just stole one in Sacramento, Paul George hit a 4 point play late in the 4th to force OT. Kings were playing without Cousins. Isaiah Thomas on the Kings is an immensely fun player to watch. Sac has some nice young pieces between Cousins, Thomas and McLemore (speaking on potential with Mclemore). Get some lotto luck this year and they're in business with a nice young core.
has 26 points in the first half tonight. He, Wilt, Bernard King and Moses Malone are the only players in NBA history to have a 50 point game with three different teams. Should he hit 50 tonight in a Clipper uniform, i believe he would be the only one to do it with 4
He'd add another random all time nugget to his already all time leading number of 4-point plays.
Clips are balling without Paul. Could move to 9-3 tonight, Blake Griffin has been outstanding
this clipper-raptor game may be the best one all year. Crazy atmosphere too. I encourage anyone to tune in right now for the final 9 minutes, this game is nuts. NBA league pass is free this weekend
Bosh has been playing great of late, Heat are going to need him to stay this aggressive and probably evolve into the clear cut number 2 option heading into the playoffs. Wade is just falling apart right now. Very ominous the way he is speaking about his latest knee issues, playing in a 6th man role today
but when you say that it is of course graded on a huge curve considering he hadn't played a game in over 4 years, looked like he may never play again, and has had like 87 microfractures. Today was probably his worst effort impact wise, but it was a great sign for them to see him go 13 minutes. He's now played like 4 games in a row. He's more of a lock to be in the lineup than Wade right now
It's going to be a very interesting offseason for Miami
I think in order for Miami to survive past this season, Wade is going to have to leave some money on the table for Miami to get another perimeter guy to attack the basket. When he's healthy he still looks phenomenal, but I have a hard time believing he's going to be fielding max level offers. I think embracing a lower salary and slightly diminished role would be a savvy PR move on his part. The media would be lauding him for his selflessness like they did with Tom Brady's restructure.
I'm banking on us getting lucky in the lotto and getting either Wiggins, Jabari, or Eibiid. Smart would be a decent consolation as well. Use the rest of the space to build the rest of the roster. By the time Kobe's extension is done, we'd have space to go for a max guy to pair with a young superstar (provided we get the right bounces in the lotto this year).
Wade won't have an option of leaving money on the table
unless Miami gives him a "job well done" for a decade package for one last big deal, i don't see who is falling over themselves to offer him anything close to the max. He's a 32 year old with no meniscus in one knee and chronic problems that have put him down a path of decline and incredible kid gloves just to stay in the lineup. He's going to miss like 25 games by seasons end at this pace solely because of knee "soreness", relating not to a knee injury but a condition. Heat have to be concerned about how much he has left down the stretch of this year. If he's a shell like last years postseason it will be tough
Spoelstra didn't even definitively say that Wade coming off the bench today would only be a one game thing. I guess there is a chance it could continue, and i think it would be a great move for them. Play him 28 minutes a night in that Manu role, ive been saying this for a while
"Whether we do that from here on out (Wade as a reserve), I don't know. I understand everybody's going to use this as a lightning rod, a subject to talk about the next 3 days."
Kobe coming back will likely put them in the 7-8 area of the lottery which is where it really takes a nose dive. The Lakers have insane luck so they'll probably get a break in the draft
on demographics in sports tv viewing. Some interesting aspects (none of which are really surprising)
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The NBA is in Great Shape
The NBA Finals was the youngest-skewing event of those examined and the most diverse. No other event had a larger percentage of Hispanics, Asians, kids 2-17, or adults 18-34, and only the WNBA Finals attracted a comparable percentage of African Americans. On average, more than a quarter of the audience for the series was made up of minority viewers under the age of 35. Overall, the NBA Finals was the second-most viewed event of those examined, trailing only the Final Four which had an older, less diverse audience (more on that next). The only downside? The NBA Finals had the second-smallest median income of any event examined, ahead of only the WNBA Finals.
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The NBA/College Hoops Divide
It is striking to see just how different the audiences are for the NBA Finals and Final Four, two events that on the surface are fairly similar. The median age for the Final Four was nearly a decade older than that of the NBA Finals, and the audience for the games was dramatically less diverse just 23% of the Final Four audience was African American, Hispanic or Asian, compared to 58% of the NBA Finals audience. The Final Four also attracted a more affluent audience than the NBA Finals. Despite the obvious divide between the two events, they averaged similar numbers in 2013 18.3* million for the Final Four and 17.7 million for the NBA.
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The NHL is Advertiser Friendly
The NHL may not have the numbers of the other leagues, but it skewed younger than every event but the NBA and had the most affluent audience of the events examined. Advertisers thirst for young audiences with disposable income, and the NHL would be in great shape if it could attract more viewers. One problem 2013 was an unusually good year for the league, and the numbers may drop back to Earth this season. Another problem the Stanley Cup Final had the least diversity of any event examined.
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Maybe the World Series Really Has Lost a Generation
It is almost cliche to suggest that Major League Baseball has lost younger viewers, but the numbers for the 2013 World Series were still notable nearly half the audience was over the age of 55, and the series median age hovered in the mid-50s. Combine that with a fairly non-diverse audience, and the Fall Classic does not appear to be in great shape.
talks about diversity of nba viewership compared to other sports. Somewhat surprising to me that the NBA does better among hispanics than MLB does Link - ( New Window )
come back from down 9... up 3 with 15 seconds left... give up a bucket then dwill throws it away... patrick patterson game winner.
Kyle lowry is playing all star ball
actually ties MJ's career best. 5 shy of the post merger record held by Kobe, who had a 16 game streak in 2003. Not to take anything away from Kobe's stretch, but he shot "just" 47.5% from the floor in his 16 game run, which certainly isn't bad by any stretch but a little underwhelming for such a historic hot streak. Durant is shooting a tad under 55% during his 11 gamer
guys like Kobe, Lebron, MJ, and others since 1980 have played 10-15 games of incredible ball where they were heads and shoulders above everyone.... but with new media outlets, I have never seen anything like this, and includes Jordan.
It would be very tough to rank though because those guys had some monster stretches themselves, throw in a few others like Shaq and even a peak D-Wade too probably at some point in 09.
This is what he has done since Westbrook had his latest surgery
17 game sample
36.5 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 5.8 APG .537 FG%, .413 3P%, .874 FT%, .668 TS%
had 2 game winners inside 30 seconds with a block right near the paint to keep it tied at 107. He's turning into a complete player on top of being the undisputed most lethal scorer in the league.
Anthony Davis with 30 points, 7 boards, and 8 blocks!
one game after going for 22 points, 19 boards, and 7 blocks.
Now that we have half a season of proof, is there anyone who still isn't sold on him?
Jordan
Robinson
Hakeem
Garnett
That is the list of players who have won both the MVP and DPOY trophy in their careers. Jordan and Hakeem being the only 2 to do in in the same year. Tim Duncan really should be on this list, a fucking shame that lesser defenders like Marcus Camby stole DPOYs from Duncan.
Anthony Davis WILL be on that list imo. Don't know if he can do it the same year like MJ/Dream, but he is going to get his hands on both awards at some point in his career as long as he stays healthy.
Lakers fans still believe the Pelicans were better off with Luis Scola, Lamar Odom, and Kevin Martin than Davis/Aminu/Gordon. Boy did David Stern really screw the Pelicans
The Spurs are 1-11 against teams with the top 7 records
(meaning the 6 teams other than themselves in that top 7) and 32-1 against everyone else. Only loss was to the Knicks. They've been losing against the upper level teams all season this year and cleaning up against everyone else. Another injury tonight with Manu, already missing Leonard, Green and Splitter.
Heat and Spurs have virtually the same record but have gotten there in very different ways. Miami has dropped 8 games to sub .500 teams, been tripped up a ton against lesser competition, but has the best record in the game against +500s
Lakers fans still believe the Pelicans were better off with Luis Scola, Lamar Odom, and Kevin Martin than Davis/Aminu/Gordon. Boy did David Stern really screw the Pelicans
lol yea Stern made the right call, even if the whole situation was a little shady.
The Wolves are another good team in the West who likely won't make the playoffs. They're 22-22 but they have a +4.5 PPG differential, which is actually better than the Warriors and Rockets. They're probably closer to 25-19 than 22-22 in terms of their true talent level.
have no idea how the situation was a little shady.
Stern has never had a problem with the Lakers being on the right side of lopsided trades before.
He had an investment to protect in the Hornets and had to make sure they were most desirable to a buyer. Making that trash trade made zero sense on any level for Stern if he was looking to sell the team. They were taking on a ton of money and weren't going to be good enough to do any damage or bad enough to get #1 pick.
That trade would have set the hornets back 3-4 more years than needed
it's shady only because of the fact that Stern owned the team. I don't think he did anything shady, I agree with your take on it. But it's just a weird situation to have the Commish also be the owner of a team and override a trade.
are expending a ton of energy in this first quarter guarding the other, its awesome to see, but its taking away from their offensive aggressiveness to a degree.
I know he puts up great numbers, but I can't stand Ibaka. It's probably because I see it as "Harden vs. Ibaka", so I expect him to be great. He's just not that kind of player.
hell of a flurry to end the 3rd. But its just OKC's night, And of course the 3rd ends with Fisher banking in another three. 13 of 21 from deep tonight. Just not going to lose when that happens
OKC is just locked in right now, looking to make it 9 in a row and against some highly quality competition in there. Durant is going to extend his streak of 30 point games with another bucket
OKC 16 for 27 from downtown
Miami 3 for 19 from downtown
Team A is beating team B 100 times out of 100 when that happens. Unreal shooting display for OKC, as bad as it gets for Miami. Entering tonight OKC had been shooting threes at a below average clip this season despite Durant's exploits, a flaw that id still have concerns about longer term with them, at least compared to past Thunder teams who had Harden and Martin, but they've been riding a wave recently during this 9 game streak and Durant is playing like a basketball God. He's the MVP this year, theres no debate
Westbrook's health is still going to be huge though. No matter how great they look right now they're still going to need him at least 90% of what we know him to be come playoff time.
I can easily see the Warriors doing a Team A-like feat and still losing because of excessive turnovers, excessive fouling, or an unholy combination of both.
awesome first half tonight against the Nets. Brooklyn has been doubling him and aggressively denying the ball to not allow him to get off too much, and have done a fairly good job holding him to just 7 shot attempts late in the first half, but hes killing them as a passer (6 assists thusfar) and has hit 6 of his 7 from the floor for 17 points. 30 point streak should continue unless the game gets out of hand and he sits a bunch in the 2nd half
is like prime Horace Grant with more athleticism + shot blocking. Ive always been a big fan. And he's still going to get better
if Westbrook is healthy OKC has the core big 3 in place to win multiple titles. Im still really not in love them 4 through 15 though. Probably the worst team of all the contenders
on basically every single catch in that 3rd quarter, only two shots he got up were off ball cuts for alley oops. Looks like the streak is going to end, seems like it was high on Kidds priority list even down by 30 too. OKC up huge and KD with 26 through 3
4 pts on 1-11 shooting against Texas in an intense conference game (down 15 late in the 2nd half)
Embiid isn't exactly lighting it up either. I still think Wiggins has an incredible ceiling as a player but he has a lot of holes in his game. He's more Harrison Barnes than Kevin Durant right now. Just like Barnes, you see the potential to be an offensive juggernaut in college but it's only flashes.
and begins February with a 7 for 19. He is shooting 29% over his last 4 games.
I have a lot of respect for his upside but im still not sure George at 23 is yet on the level people want to put him. Im not sure Paul George despite his massive defensive edge is any more impactful than even Melo right now, although thats pretty much now consensus influenced by indy's team success. The difference between them offensively is just that big. Im not sure George is ready to be the offensive alpha indiana is going to need him to be to win a title. That team is really well built though`
for everyone who had an eye on how blake griffin and the clips would respond without Paul for 6 weeks, they;ve passed with flying colors. Lost to Miami tonight in a tight one, but Blake Griffin had 43 pts 15 rebs and 6 ast in a losing effort. He has been incredible since Paul went out, and theyre getting him back Sunday
Lebron with 31 pts 12 ast 8 rebs in the win. Heat win despite getting outrebounded 52-31 and giving up an insane 21 offensive boards
Griffin has exceeded my expectations ,but there are still other bigs that I like better than him.
Durant is incredible. I still dont' think he's on Lebron's level because of Lebron's defense and transition game, but Durant is one of the best scorers I've ever seen. He's Steph Curry with much more length.
All of this gives rise to the single most annoying basketball fan myth: that Griffin is a one-dimensional dunker with no post game, no hoops sophistication, and nothing to fall back upon when leaping isnt enough to win. Seriously: You cant tweet one positive thing about the guy without a legion of critics screaming about how empty Griffins game is.
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Griffin is attempting nearly six post-up shots per game in Pauls absence, up from about 3.9 post-up shots on average before Pauls injury, per Synergy Sports. Griffin has shot 48 percent on the block post-Paul and has drawn shooting fouls on an astonishing 26 percent of his post-up possessions in that stretch, per Synergy. The Clips have scored 1.03 points per possession over those games on all Griffin post-ups that end with Griffin shooting, drawing a foul, or turning the ball over.
That figure would rank fifth overall among 79 players who have finished at least 50 post-ups this season, per Synergy. The four players who have exceeded Griffins post-Paul efficiency on the block: LeBron James (the best player alive, though Kevin Durant is closing the gap); Brook Lopez (out for the season); Boris Diaw (not nearly as frequent a post-up scoring threat); and Dirk Nowitzki (sort of a well-known post-up guy). Griffins post-ups this season have produced .981 points per possession, meaning hes actually been better without Paul, even while assuming a larger burden. But even so: That .981 figure ranks Griffin 12th among
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You can scream all you want that Griffin doesnt have a post game. You are just wrong, and your argument looks increasingly like the hysterical shouting of a crazy person who points to a sunny sky and tells you its raining.
one of the craziest finishes ive ever seen just now. Check out the highlights of OKC-Orlando tonight. Orlando wins by 1 on a fast break dunk literally at the buzzer
I wonder if it's just an example of mediocrity resulting in complacency. A fan base will be reluctant to support a constantly underachieving team that repeatedly misses the playoffs, and in the West, you can miss the playoffs with 45 wins. The East will have multiple teams make the playoffs with less than 40 wins.
The Western teams have just done a better job organizationally since the turn of the century, gotten a little bit more lotto luck too. Sports are cyclical and sometimes you have periods where the conferences are imbalanced. Depth wise they've been imbalanced pretty much since the turn of the century so this is one hell of a cycle, but it won't last forever.
Its not as if its the NFC/AFC from like '84-'96 or anything though, where one conference just couldn't compete with the other at the top and the NFC was winning every SB most often in uncompetitive fashion. The NFC title game was looked at as the SB. The East and West have split the last 10 nba titles. The West has consistently had better depth, but at the top its been close for a decade.
Blake Griffin goes off for 26 pts 11 rebs 6 ast on 11/14 shooting. Included in there was this windmill alley oop from CP3 who came back tonight
I'd like to see the Clippers get a healthy crack in the postseason for once. Griffin playing hurt last year with the ankle in round 1. Paul playing hurt in 2012 against the Spurs in round 2. They have not been healthy for either playoff berth in the CP3 era. If they are this year they have a shot to make some noise. Doc Rivers > Vinny Del Negro, Deandre Jordan playing the best ball of his career too. Id still like to see them add a wing who can defend and preferably has three point range before the deadline
was plumlee for the nets. he has been very efficient in his opportunities so far, and had a break out game last night. blocking shots,rebounds, put backs, ooops, ect.
Excellent for him to play with KG to start his career and learn
its an nba thread we can save nets bash for 115 post knicks threads abot shumpert, amare, and a pick in 2035 for blake griffin and the rights to benny agbayani.
maybe the Nets or Knicks get hot and make a run (Nets are probably the best also-ran in the East), maybe the Wizards and Raptors get an amazing stretch from Wall/Lowry and make a run in the playoffs. But in reality it seems like a foregone conclusion that it will be Heat vs. Pacers.
The West was supposed to be an absolute slugfest this year, and after Westbrook went down people thought OKC would slip a little bit in the standings and be fighting for homecourt. Today's NBA Western Conference playoff standings...
1. OKC
2. SAS (4.0 GB)
3. POR (5.0 GB)
4. LAC (6.0 GB)
5. HOU (6.0 GB)
6. GSW (10.0 GB)
7. PHO (10.5 GB)
8. DAL (10.5 GB)
9. MEM (12.5 GB)
OKC has built a very strong 4 game lead over the Spurs. Technically, all the teams in the Top 5 have a chance at the #1 seed being within just 6 games. But I seriously doubt any of those teams catch OKC. The Clippers probably have the best chance.
In the bottom part of the WC playoff race, the Golden State Warriors stick out like a sore thumb. They are 4 GB from the #5 seed yet 2.5 Games ahead of the 9th seed. This is a team with Championship aspirations. This is a team whose bandwagon was filled at the start of the year. This is a team that I think may have the highest ceiling in the West if everyone is healthy and is playing well.
So I'm just a little disappointed/surprised that they are an "on the bubble" team to make the playoffs as of today. Their ORtg is 15th and their DRtg is 3rd in the league this year. Iggy and a healthy Bogut have really helped their defense. But offensively they remain a one dimensional jump shooting team that is way too turnover prove.
They're still a very dangerous team in the playoffs because they have a great defense and can get red hot from downtown. But they are struggling to make the playoffs as of today. I think they'll make it but it's no lock. Memphis is looking really good lately and the Suns and Mavs are probably worse than GS but they're not gonna lay down.
Lebron just hit a ridiculous three at the buzzer to beat GS
bigtime shotmaking in bigtime spots by Lebron and Curry. A comeback by Golden State who trailed by 21 in the 3rd and took the lead in the 4th on a crazy run. Then fell behind by 9 and took the lead again twice in the final minute before Lebron took it back both times with a three on the ensuing possession
About the Warriors that makes opponents sink late-game crazy-ass threes? Westbrook did it twice this season, one of which was countered by an Iggy three. LeBron's shot was really well guarded but shit, it is LeBron, and they should have sextuple-teamed him.
I know KD is probably going to win MVP this season, but LeBron has nights like last night where he proves yet again he is the best basketball player alive.
But for the first time since about 2008, there is a player in his league. Durant's MVP frontrunner status is on merit, not a Lebron fatigue based sentiment. We are incredibly lucky to be witnessing both of these guys in their primes right now. This is just an awesome time for the league. I wish they were a little closer in age so their primes could have more overlap, but enjoy it while we can
I get the rep here of being a Lebron fanboy and thats not unwarranted. But truth be told im just about equally as big a KD fan at this point. I just haven't been put into a position to add a counterbalance to some of the slings and arrows that may be thrown his way like a Lebron. Durant is still very much in that fresh faced, lovey dovey portion of his career where everything is sweet and dandy and everyone loves him. But no chips in another year or two, those arrows are coming whether they're fair or not
But for the first time since about 2008, there is a player in his league. Durant's MVP frontrunner status is on merit, not a Lebron fatigue based sentiment. We are incredibly lucky to be witnessing both of these guys in their primes right now. This is just an awesome time for the league. I wish they were a little closer in age so their primes could have more overlap, but enjoy it while we can
I get the rep here of being a Lebron fanboy and thats not unwarranted. But truth be told im just about equally as big a KD fan at this point. I just haven't been put into a position to add a counterbalance to some of the slings and arrows that may be thrown his way like a Lebron. Durant is still very much in that fresh faced, lovey dovey portion of his career where everything is sweet and dandy and everyone loves him. But no chips in another year or two, those arrows are coming whether they're fair or not
Right now, today....Miami or the field to win a title?
The field. I don't trust Wade's body at all. Now the dude has drop foot (a nerve issue) in addition to his chronic knee. They've been mediocre defensively this season and horrifyingly bad on the boards. The former is something that i think is correctable with more focus and effort (they are clearly coasting some and taking a big picture approach), the latter issue though (the rebounding) is not correctable barring a move and leaves them highly vulnerable against big teams just like Indiana who matches up very well with them
I'd still favor Miami over any individual team, but the field gets a way bigger slice than 50% of the expectation pie
it will always be that way unless Durant leaves OKC and goes to a contender via a long, drawn out saga to team up with other big FA's. I used to love LeBron on Cleveland, that went out the window when he left.
But I don't think its a Championship comparison. Durant will still be loved regardless, unless he does something really stupid to get people to hate him. Another couple years with no rings will start the all time great player criticism, but he won't lose fans.
You are incredibly naive if you think thats the case
Durant is about to enter the expectation zone and hes going to begin getting outside pressure at this point with every season that doesn;t end with a title. Everyone on that level does. Doesn't matter if he stays or goes. This is not Lebron in cleveland either. When Westbrook is healthy, plus Ibaka, thats a damn good core and championship expectations aren't unrealistic
As for Wade, he started getting symptoms of drop foot yesterday, thats how the Heat have labeled it
i didn't read your last sentence. Im talking solely about his legacy. He is at that threshold right now to where he is about to enter the expectation zone
since you can't sort of have it. You either do or don't, and if you do, I can't imagine he would A) be cleared to play or B) risk further injury by playing.
It's literally a massive symptom of a damaged lower disc progressing and getting worse. I can't stand Wade, but I hope that's just a BS injury they are claiming.
it sounds terrible from all accounts on google, which is why the Heat listing him as day to day and acting like its not a big deal is interesting. They did the same thing last year though with the bone bruise to his knee which happened at the tail end of the 27 game win streak. And he was never the same player through the playoffs
didn't mean to jump on you like that without reading your whole post. I was just referring to media scrutiny and expectations with regards to KD being on the way. Anyone that great is gonna feel it mount once they get into that 7th and 8th year
But yeah, the Wade thing just sounds so strange. Herniating my L5S1 disc a couple years ago was such a eye opener. Drop foot was every doc's biggest concern and thankfully I never got it. But if I did, i probably would have had to get surgery (anyone for that matter). You can rehab it, but i can't see an athlete still playing with it which is why I don't buy this as his injury, especially being listed as day-to-day. All signs point to either it being BS, or they are trying to buy time before shutting him down for the season, there really isn't an inbetween.
Dwyane Wade was a late scratch in Wednesday's game against the Warriors because he said felt like he couldn't move his foot. Um...?
Wade said his leg felt like it "shut down" and that he "felt like I couldn't move my foot."
"I was out for warm-ups and my foot got a little numb ... as time when on it started going up my leg a bit," Wade told reporters. "The nerve on my leg shut down; weirdest thing ever. I was out there moving around and warming up, I couldn't feel my foot so I didn't want to jump on it."
He's officially listed as day-to-day and is flying to New Orleans and will see the Heat's team doctor. Wade said the condition is something called "drop foot." Wikipedia describes it as this: "Foot drop is a gait abnormality in which the dropping of the forefoot happens due to weakness, damage to the common fibular nerve or paralysis of the muscles in the anterior portion of the lower leg. It is usually a symptom of a greater problem, not a disease in itself."
He said he Googled his diagnosis and said his symptoms began to improve.
His availability for the All-Star Game is in question, but he said he's optimistic.
"The nerve was aggravated and shut down. I want this to calm down a little bit and get back to feeling regular," Wade said. "I'm not optimistic, I'm not pessimistic [for the All-Star Game], I just want it to get better."
Wade has missed 15 games this season, 12 due to his troublesome knees, one because of illness, one because of a migraine and now one because of this foot issue.
These games tend to suck in the 1st half when no one plays defense. But when it's a close game in the 4th quarter, the teams go for the win and it's always fun to see who takes over. So I'm just hoping this one stays within 10 pts in the 4th quarter so we can see a good finish.
this game mattered more? Obviously the MLB rule to decide Homefield is one of the worst piece of crap rules in sports. But I do agree that there should be a greater incentive to win.
West vs. East is better than Team USA vs. Team Spain in terms of talent. It is literally the highest level of competitive basketball that is possible on planet earth. I understand why players don't want to give it their all in an exhibition game in the middle of their mid-season vacation. But I really wish we could get a more competitive game where teams actually try on both sides for 48 mins.
Im fine with just letting the all star game be an all star game
An exhibition where the best athletes on the planet can play a free flowing game uninhibited by the defense and showcase their athletic talents. I enjoyed watching Blake Griffin dunk 42 times last night. I enjoy guys trying passes they wouldn't normally try, big men taking threes, its just a one day freak show and i enjoy it for what it is. It's never been anything ultra competitive anyway unless its close late.
They royally fucked up all star saturday this year though with all these changes. Especially the dunk contest. Just brutal they way they tried to reinvent everything.
Heat up 5 in Dallas in the 4th despite being outrebounded 43-21. This years Heat team would be the worst rebounding team ever (in terms of rebound differential) to make a finals, let alone win a title. Last years Heat team was among the worst. Their record when they outrebound teams is nuts in the Lebron era, they virtually never lose. Its something like 150-20 overall. On the flip side virtually ever loss can directly be traced back to being raped on the glass
down by 17 in the 4th. this is a repeat of the game in OKc last year where Miami got up huge, Lebron had clearly gotten an edge on Durant in the head to head through 3 quarters, very unevenly so. Then durant got going in garbage time to even the numbers out
KD is the MVP right now, but a night like tonight and a recent stretch like Lebron has had on this road trip makes it a lot closer to a tossup. If the Heat finish with best overall record this year between Wade's constant day to day status, and their historically awful rebounding situation, its a tossup
Post about how LeBron is a drama queen or soft after goi to the locker room after that fall, I'll be very disappointed in what's become of BBI's LeBron bashing.
but there wasn't going to be a title narrative in Cleveland, was there?
I sometimes think about those rosters he dragged to 50+ win seasons, and I wonder where LeBron would rank in history with just some real help his first 5-6 years in the league.
but I'd enjoy it even more if he did. I think LeBron's time in Miami is basically done or done after next year, depending on his beliefs about Wade's knee.
Given how bad the Knicks are, I've basically turned my attention to the league and watching guys like LeBron and KD chase history. And I just think it would be a pretty cool aesthetic if KD won the MVP and LeBron wore a mask on a playoff rampage avenging his loss of the award, a la Jordan vs Malone (I think that's right?).
rockets a stop away from winning in GS and extending their win streak to 9. Seems like every Warrior national TV game is a thriller that goes down to the final minute
Curry hits on a wild drive and ties the game with 3 seconds left. TNT right now
that isn't one of the worst of all time on the glass among contenders, and a team that has a sidekick who can be healthy in the playoffs for once. It'd be nice if he actually had a cast as stacked as casual fans believe this one is
But chris r being a hater is as much a given as D-Rose rehabbing something.
Warriors get the W. I hate when teams foul with a lead on the last possession to prevent a three to tie. Might be the right coaching move but it takes the steam out of the end of these games
We usually watch local broadcasts of Warriors games so I usually don't know which are nationally televised, but they had had a ton of close ones. I'm so stunned Harden didn't make that final three like most people who take final shots against Golden State do.
Tonights OT game. Lebron buzzer beater game. The 121-120 game vs the Wolves. The three games with OKC, two of which went down to the final possession and the other one Durant drops 54 and it was pretty close. Christmas day 105-103 vs the Clips. The game against the Spurs where pop rested guys and they still won in GS on the last possession. Thats almost like 10 right there and i might be missing a couple. The rate at which these games bring the awesome is stunning. There have been a couple duds in there, but the batting average is real high
named Festus Ezeliknee. It's impossible to find out what's going on with him or when/if he'll ever return because the Warriors never, ever talk about it, but it sure would be a huge boost to have him and Bogut both healthy and be able to throw out 3 different defensively-skilled centers in the playoffs.
just asserted his dominance last night. I love watching KD play and I'd rather see him win a title than Lebron, but I still think there's a significant gap between Lebron and KD.
Re: Lebron choosing the easiest path to get a title. Any place Lebron goes becomes a winning team because of how great Lebron is. That Cavaliers supporting cast is one of the worst I've ever seen carried toa finals-- though I think AI's supporting cast in Philly was worse. It would be foolish to go to a crappy situation just to go to a crappy situation. I wouldn't wish Melo's situation with this roster and this owner on anyone.
I'f I'm Lebron, I'm going to a place that has a smart front office and the ability to but strong players around him.
1. OKC 43-13
2. Ind 41-13
3. Miami 39-14
4. San Antonio 40-15
Among that foursome the Pacers have been by far the most fortunate. You absolutely cannot get any healthier than their starting 5 this season, only 5 combined missed games (3 from Hill and 2 from Stephenson). OKC has dealt with the Westbrook stuff. Miami has dealt with Wade being day to day all year. San Antonio has probably had it the roughest of all and now tony parker is out for the forseeable future
The glaring difference between those teams right now is how many losses Miami has against sub .500 teams. Theyd have the best record by far among that group if everyone had played equal in those situations. They have 10 losses to sub 500s to be exact. Thats compared to just 5 for Indiana, 3 for San antonio and 6 for OKC. The Heat have been hampered by that fat cat syndrome which is not uncommon among teams in their shoes chasing the threepeat. Its tougher mentally to get up for a random regular season game against a random team for them than it is for a team who is still trying to prove something every night like an Indy or OKC. But when their antennas are up and they circle you on the calendar, theyre damn tough. 15-4 against winning teams this year, by far the best record in the nba
I think its so vital for the Pacers to nab home floor if they want to beat Miami in this postseason. Their lead was once as high as 5 games in the loss column, and now the Heat are on their heels as we begin this stretch run. It would really be a devastating mental blow to Indy who has made home court an open priority
his balding is more noticeable than ever, the headband doesn't do shit anymore to cover it up. Durant is quietly losing it himself but in the back, so its not as noticeable
As for the record thing, i saw that yesterday, its just freakish. Pretty crazy to have the same record 4 straight years through 53 games. And this year they've already had more losses vs sub .500 teams than they ever did in a full season before. But are playing better than ever against the +.500s. It's been a weird year. They've clearly been a team who picks their spots focus and intensity wise with all the recent playoff mileage. and its tripped them up a ton this year in games you wouldn't expect. But the record is still the same
They wont match last years 66 wins though because there is no 27 game win streak coming
improve to 25-12 since the Rudy Gay trade. Rudy Gay is the Stephon Marbury of this generation in that every team that trades him gets markedly better after the move
Maybe acquiring Rudy Gay via trade is a brilliant move considering that when you get rid of him, you'll improve dramatically. He should just be traded every week.
for carrying the Bulls without Rose. If we ranked MVP candidates, I think Noah is probably in my Top 15 this season and pretty close to the Top 10. He is the rock that is keeping that Bulls team relevant right now.
Goran Dragic is another kinda under the radar stud this year. IMO, Dragic has been better than Lillard this year yet he has received a fraction of the hype. I was pissed when the Rockets basically chose to sign Lin instead of keeping Dragic, even if Dragic loved Phoenix. I think Lin is a really solid PG, even if he's overpaid. Lin can contribute on a winning team. But it sucks watching Lowry and Dragic blow up this year and thinking "what if?", because both guys could easily be on the Rockets right now. Dragic/Harden would've been an awesome lefty combo. Dragic is a guy who I'd consider a Top 10 MVP candidate this season, and Lowry isn't too far behind.
He's always been an elite passer for a big man, but this year they're running their offense through him more than ever between the Rose injury and Deng being out. His 62 passes per game are by far the most of any non PG. And only Blake Griffin averages more touches per game this year than Noah (76.8 per game) excluding pg's. That includes more than Lebron, Durant or Melo. He had a 13 assist game recently and is averaging about 6 per game since new years, and the Bulls have been great in that stretch
Now of course none of this is an optimal way to run an offense and the Bulls offense still sucks. But that's another story.
the Cavs have crashed back down to earth after that feel good week or two when they were playing good ball and Irving won AS game MVP. Their playoff chances are toast, especially with the toughest remaining sked in the East
The 8 teams in the playoffs right now in the East will probably be the 8 teams who finish the year there
to one of the most productive in the era of allowable zone
Quote:
Couper Moorhead @CoupNBA
If LeBron sustains, he'll be the only player other than Dirk to score over 1.1 points-per-post-up since 04-05 (200+ poss). Via Synergy.
Its huge. If the clips win tonight they would own a tiebreak for seeding. Tough game, but the Rockets look awesome right now. Harden and Dwight are both having Western player of the month caliber months if Durant wasn't having one of the better months of his career.
Rockets remaining sked is just crazy hard. Dallas is the only playoff team with a tougher remaining schedule % wise. You guys are going to have to play very well to hold off the Clips and Blazers for home court in round 1. They just have easier schedules and the Clips sked is also home heavy on top of it. I wouldn't count them out though.
If OKC is healthy you still favor them out West, they're just a tier above. But with the Westbrook issues, their inability to add a shooter, and Durant probably tailing off somewhat from this wildly impressive yet unsustainable pace (unless he is legitimately the GOAT) it's not like they're not vulnerable to a very strong 2nd tier group in the conference that includes the Rockets. Especially if they have the real Dwight Howard now. He has been awesome of late. Glad that mini injury scare last night proved to be nothing
Phil Jackson says Lakers dynasty broke up because of Shaq's 'clown role'
But I'm posting to bring up a different point. Remember that book Phil wrote writer after he left the Lakers which put a lot of the burden for the breakup on Kobe. I don't remember him questioning Shaq's work ethic back then in such plain English. Maybe my memory is fading but this seems to be the opposite of the book slant
It was definitely not flattering to Kobe and chose Shaq's side, but i don't think he gave Shaq a total pass. In either case the revisionist spin all parties (Shaq in particular) have tried to put on the breakup is a bunch of bunk. It wasn't solely because Buss wanted Shaq to take a paycut and he wouldn't. That explanation is just a convenient way to shield both from their role in those immature squabbles. The further those two get removed from that era, the more they only remember the good times. Ive seen Shaq very complimentary of Kobe of late and vice versa
Id love to skim through the book again at some point, it was quick flowing and written in the style of a diary. But i seemed to have lost it in the shuffle when moving a couple years ago
Shaq was indeed lazy and immature at times during his career, thats a matter of public record. Notorious for reporting to training camps out of shape in the 2nd half of his career. Openly admitted he dogged it defensively for an entire regular season in 2001 just to sulk and prove a point about his displeasure with Kobe's growing role in the offense, led to the Lakers having a horrifying regular season on D (worst ever by far from a champ). Then of course he turned it on in the playoffs and led them to a 16-1 record and a title. He also delayed a toe surgery until just before the season started saying "I got hurt on company time, ill rehab on company time".
Things like this are why he is not the GOAT and only won 1 MVP despite being as dominant a force as has ever set foot on a basketball court at his ceiling. He's easily one of the top 10 players of all time, and you could still say he underachieved a bit
how Jimmer Fredette is going to do with Chicago. He has some good shooting numbers, especially when shooting the corner 3. His defense is obviously suspect, but he's going into Thibs system which should be able to hide him.
they'll be 21-8 in their last 29. No Rose, traded Deng, don't have a 15 ppg scorer. Doesn't matter. Thibs is a miracle worker.
Im excited to see what Jimmer could do if he gets minutes under Thibs, they need a scoring punch off the bench and it wouldn';t be stunning if he could somewhat fill the role Nate robinson did last year
that's a good win for the Nets with their struggles against the Bulls and the way Chicago has been playing. Hopefully they can string together a few W's before the "big" game against Toronto.
LeBron jacked a few 3's trying to get to 60 - still stuck on 57. 59 now.
simply because of Lebron and Melo's efforts against them this year. They're actually very solid defensively. Nothing you can do though when those guys are on that type of roll. It wasn't like it was a parade to the rim last night either, Lebron didn't even have a single dunk in the game. Most of his damage was done on the perimeter
The 2011 finals might have been the best thing to ever happen to Lebron long term. Humbled him, forced him into deep self evaluation, and he emerged from it a much more complete offensive player. Since that time he's gone from no post game at all to the best one in the league statistically. From a below average three point shooter to an elite one. Every time you think he may have hit his ceiling he shoots through it.
He has been unreal during this win streak. A PER in the mid 40s, crazy efficiency, he's back now over a 30 PER on the season (5th time in his career, would be the first player ever with five 30-PER seasons), and now in a virtual tie with Durant for the league lead in PER, in a bid to lead it for the 7th consecutive year. Even though he's dealing with the mask from the broken nose, this is also the healthiest he has been all year. At various points this year he has dealt with back, shoulder, ankle and groin ailments and is finally starting to get past it all
Whoever finishes 2nd in the MVP vote this year had about the most impressive number 2 finish ive ever seen.
and il probably be wrong because anything can happen on a given night.... But I see the clips reeling off a 15+ game win streak here. They're already at 5 including wins at OKC, vs Houston and at PHX, playing great. Look at their next 10 on the schedule..
@ LAL, ATL, PHX, GS, @ UTA, CLE, @ DEN, DET, MIL, @ NO
8 of those 10 teams are under .500. The only two who are above (GS, and PHX) will be playing the clippers on a back to back night for them, with the game in LA
0 for 9, 2 points, 5 turnovers in 34 minutes. Pacers lose. Heat and Pacers tied in the loss columb for the one seed, Pacers had once led the race by as many as 5 games in the L column
I've ever seen. He's basically a point center who plays borderline DPOY level defense. I thought he was going to be a bust coming out of Florida and hated the pick. Whoops.
Kidd has done an amazing job adjusting since an awful start. Marcus Thornton has been a very good pick up, underrated move. Beat Sacramento and Boston would said up a huge game against the raptors.
Broooookkkkklllllyyyyynnnnnn
I hear all of these debates about who number 3 in the MVP ballot should be. George, Griffin, Paul, Love, Dragic, etc. Why do I rarely hear about what Tim Duncan is doing? Does everyone realize that Duncan's per 36 stats are almost exactly on par with his career average? The guy is amazing.
Duncan would have a 5th ring and be a permanent imprint on the mt rushmore of basketball.
the most underrated player in the history of the game.
the lebron stopper with another big defensive performance tonight (Leonard)
but top 3 MVP is a bit of a stretch. His per 36 numbers are very good, but being held to 29-30 minutes a night (and getting the occasional off night just to get him through the season in one piece) diminishes his regular season value. Those minutes that he can no longer consistently play don't get magically pro rated to help the Spurs win games, those are minutes he's not out there for his team. But the Spurs have the depth and system in place to deal with it.
At this point I'd have Blake Griffin as a clear 3rd, he was just amazing in that stretch without Paul. And I think that candidacy is going to build steam as the Clips roll through an easy part of their schedule down the stretch here. Right now they're up 50 on the Lakers about to win their 6th game in a row.
worst loss in Laker history.Led the game by 50+ in the 4th quarter. You have to be impressed with them right now. Tied for the best point differential this season in the NBA, despite having played the 2nd toughest schedule in the league and missing Paul for a good portion of the year.
Like ive said a couple times above, that schedule is going to start to even out and they will be racking up wins like crazy down the stretch. Only 3 1/2 games behind OKC for the one seed, don't know if they can catch them, but im telling you the clips have potential to reel off a 15-ish game streak here if they don't get tripped up during the next few weeks. People are going to be all over the Clips jock nationally with the way they close this season
This is by far the best Clipper team in the CP3/Griffin era. Best version of Griffin we've ever seen. Best version of Deandre Jordan we've ever seen. Their depth is better. Doc Rivers is a big upgrade on Del Negro on the bench. They're getting back Crawford and Reddick shortly. Health is going to be the important thing because they haven't been healthy in their 2 prior playoff runs together.
most teams have played 60 games and things are going to start heating up soon to finish the year. The #1 seed is up for grabs in both conferences. This is how I'd rank the teams in terms of Championship odds...
1. MIA (43-16)
2. IND (46-15)
3. OKC (46-16)
4. LAC (43-20)
5. SAS (45-16)
6. HOU (42-19)
7. GSW (38-24)
8. POR (42-19)
9. BKN (30-29)
10. MEM (34-26)
I put Indy at #1 last time I ranked the teams and I honestly thought Indy had the best chance at that point, but with Paul George struggling and LeBron tearing it up as of late it's tough to go with the Pacers right now. It's still a 7 game series type of matchup because of the Pacers' size and toughness. OKC and a couple of other WC teams may look a little better at the moment but I'd put Indy #2 because the weak East almost guarantees them a spot in the ECF. The Nets are positioning themselves as the clear best of the rest in the East. They will probably advance past round 1 and face Indy/Miami in the 2nd round.
I think OKC is still the favorite in the West even if they've been a little inconsistent since Westbrook's return. There are so many legitimate WC contenders but OKC still stands out as slightly ahead of the rest. 2-6 in the West is about as close as it gets and the real strength of the NBA right now. Any of those teams can make a run to the WCF and win. I think Portland is probably the team I'm least sold on in that group. They have a 5 games lead on Golden State but I don't fear them the way I fear the Warriors. GSW might have the highest ceiling out West in a playoff series with their hot shooting and defense, but they won't have homecourt in the playoffs against the other contenders. The Clippers, Spurs, and Rockets are probably the 3 teams outside of the Thunder with a realistic shot at the Finals. I like what I see from the Rockets but I think they're #3 among this trio of teams because of their relative lack of experience. The Clippers seem more poised to make a deep run this year and no one has more experience than the Spurs. I think I'd give the Clips the slight edge over the Spurs now that it looks like Blake Griffin has hit that next level.
In terms of the MVP race...
1. Durant
2. LeBron
3. Griffin
4. George
5. Curry
6. Paul
7. Love
8. Dragic
9. Aldridge
10. Noah
Durant still had a slight edge but LeBron is chasing him down right now. Any "tie" will give the MVP to Durant so LeBron really needs to do something special to distance himself from Durant by the end of the year. It's going to be tough to do that for LeBron considering that Durant is still killing it even after his hot streak ended. It's a very clear 1-2 with a monstrous gap to #3.
3-10 in the MVP race can be ranked literally any way you want this year. I think Blake deserves the #3 spot at this point in the season after his fantastic performance recently and carrying that team in Paul's absence. But one month from now I could see the list being way different, I have Aldridge at #9 and he was Top 5 for me for most of the season. I still have Paul George as 4th on the MVP list despite his recent struggles. But I can see how some would rank him lower that that.
if it were not for ray allen
hitdog42 : 3/6/2014 10:32 pm : link : reply
Duncan would have a 5th ring and be a permanent imprint on the mt rushmore of basketball.
How about were it not for Tim Duncan scoring just 3 pts in the 2nd half and OT of game 6 after a 27 point first half? Or missing the layup in game 7 that could tie the game in the final minute
Duncan exists in this zone where everyone waxes poetically about him, talks about how under appreciated and under the radar he always is. But that sword cuts both ways. No one ever comes down on Tim Duncan for anything either
never repeated in a league where its common among legends, and its not because he hasn't had help. Has lost like 5 or 6 playoff series in his career with home court advantage. No one ever chooses to nitpick him.
if it were not for ray allen
hitdog42 : 3/6/2014 10:32 pm : link : reply
Duncan would have a 5th ring and be a permanent imprint on the mt rushmore of basketball.
How about were it not for Tim Duncan scoring just 3 pts in the 2nd half and OT of game 6 after a 27 point first half? Or missing the layup in game 7 that could tie the game in the final minute
Duncan exists in this zone where everyone waxes poetically about him, talks about how under appreciated and under the radar he always is. But that sword cuts both ways. No one ever comes down on Tim Duncan for anything either
I don't think anyone comes down on any 37 year old player.
was good enough to be 1st team all nba. He was gifted a matchup nightmare against bosh who can't handle him. When he scores 27 points on Bosh in a half, and then finishes with 3 pts in the 2nd half and OT of game 6 with the title on the line, don't tell me its because of age
Its OK to knock Tim Duncan for one thing in his entire career, it would be the first.
He was drafted into perhaps the best situation in nba history save for Magic and Kobe. He has the sharpest organization in the league finding talent like Parker and Ginobili - two hall of famers - outside of the lotto. A GOAT short list head coach, stability every year. Theyve remained contenders even in the post prime stage of his career
but its sickening how this guy gets vaulted into GOAT short list convos without also getting GOAT short list scrutiny. He gets a free pass for everything
that's the cushion you get when you win a title as the main guy at 22-years-old. At 26 he was already a 2-time champ. Put his career in reverse and perception would be different. Same thing happened with Bird and Magic...but not with LeBron, Jordan.
Magic dealt with scrutiny after winning young. 84 was a brutal summer for him. Kobe won as a clear sidekick young, so its not the same, but he also faced heavy scrutiny even after that before he won again in 09
More than that, i thnk its because Duncan is just a boring, non polarizing figure. It's true that he flies under the radar, but that goes for good and bad
just a slight correction to an earlier point i made
Wasn't part of that slowdown due to Miami changing how they defended him, which opened the floor up for his teammates? I remember the big miss at the end as being one of the few good looks he got late in the game. His second half point total is something I blame on both Duncun and his teammates as well as credit Miami for.
Miami was getting killed by the Spurs role shooters in the first 5 games, they had obliterated a team record for threes made in a finals series even before game 6 was played, and Danny Green set an individual record. Parkers dribble penetration and their ball movement was the biggest reason why, but the attention paid down low to duncan also helped open the floodgates
In game 6 Miami made an adjustment to stay at home on the shooters and allow Bosh to go 1 on 1 with Duncan. Duncan took full advantage and shit all over Miami in the first half. Miami did adjust in the 2nd half but theres no excuse for Duncan just completely disappearing like that and not scoring a point in the final 21:31
The layup you referenced happened in game 7, different game all together. Thats when he had the chance to tie it with like a minute left and missed as easy a look as he will have in his career
But heres the clip of that game 7 layup. They pushed the ball up and got Miami cross matched, Duncan 1 on 1 in the post against Shane Battier, no help, dream matchup. 2 footer point blank
Im not trying to kill Duncan here though. But among all the story lines in last years finals, especially the last two games, his disappearing act late in game 6 and that miss at the end of game 7 is virtually never mentioned Link - ( New Window )
Kobe would have been nitpicked regardless of the off court baggage by everyone who wanted to show you he's not Jordan.
Duncan is not nitpicked because hes boring. Not even his wife coming out and announcing to the world that Duncan is bisexual and has had a 10+ year boyfriend can make headlines (and that has happened, if you hadn't heard it im not surprised, hes Tim Duncan). Hes a non polarizing, non needle moving being who exists in his little small market corner, which does in some ways underrate him, but in many ways shields him from any criticism. Because no one cares enough.
what are the Top 5 things you could rip Duncan on?
He might not get the same criticism but he doesn't get the same love either. Even to this day the general public puts Kobe on higher level even though most "experts" who know the sport agree that Duncan has had the more impressive career. LeBron also gets much more love than Duncan does even though as of today Duncan has still had the superior career.
People give LeBron a bit of a pass for his 1st Finals and Spurs series. He was absolutely pathetic in that series but he gets a pass because he was so young and had no help and was going up against one of the best Spurs teams of this era. But Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan forced LeBron into an embarrassing series.
Also a lot of crazy shit gets said during divorce. What his wife said could be true or not but I'd consider the source for that story.
Whether what his wife said is true or not doesn't matter, thats not my point. My point is hes that far off the radar that even a bombshell like that doesn't make news.
If you wanted to make a case to nitpick Duncan (and again, key word here is nitpick, hes an all time great, top 10 all time player, id have him ahead of Kobe very clearly on an all time list). But if we're holding him to the same standards we hold everyone else in the conversation... Lets start here...
Lost 6 series with home court advantage (im not including 2000 when he was hurt), thats a whopping amount. Never successfully defended a title in a league where repeats and threepeats happen like rain in Seattle. A bit underwhelming in eliminations games career wise, shoots just 44% from the floor. No matter what age he was, if any other number of all time great players were held scoreless in the final 21 min 31 seconds of a championship clinching game, they'd get killed. No one ever holds him to the fire for his poor FT shooting over the years the way they do other guys who shoot sub 70% career.
No one ever uses supporting cast or circumstances against Duncan the way they are prone to do for others, when he was drafted into arguably the greatest situation ever as a rookie, and is blessed with the best run front office in the league.
Hes an all time great. But if you want to nitpick, and no one ever does with him, theres a lot you can talk about
can be nitpicked. We're seeing that right now with LeBron who is basically as good as it gets but people essentially use the Megan Fox "fingers" mindset when talking about LeBron's shortcomings in comparison to MJ.
Yes Duncan had a great organization but that argument gets blown to bits after what he did in '03. He carried a cast that might've been worse than LeBron's Cavs teams to a title in a brutal conference while leading his team in basically every category and being arguably both the best defensive and offensive player in the playoffs. He was basically doing what Joakim Noah is doing right now x10 and carried that team to the fucking Finals and threw down a near quadruple double to ice it. Better start to finish season than any LeBron has currently had.
But the general public doesn't even care about Duncan's epic 2003 run. So you can say he gets under-scrutinized but he is also extremely underhyped. You're just not going to get many extreme opinions of Duncan.
its definitely a double edged sword. But im just throwing out the second edge. I agree completely that he often doesn't get his due because of his personality traits, market and various other circumstances, including that hes never been the most aesthetically pleasing star to watch. But it works two ways. Duncan has never spent a second of his career under a microscope. Duncan is still playing in the 1960s in a 2014 world
on Duncan's 03 playoff run being clearly better start to finish than any of Lebron's. Lebrons 2012 is right there if not better by virtually every measure. Clearly more valuable offensively, not quite as valuable defensively of course. A virtual wash. Although Duncan gets a bonus for going through the Lakers in the fashion they did
Even though Manu and Parker had yet to come into their own, its a real stretch to call that cast worse than Lebrons Cavs casts. Hell even that old version of David robinson was probably more impactful than any player Lebron played with in Cleveland, playing at a +.200 WS/48 clip in the playoffs and anchoring the paint defensively. Did a good job on shaq in the aforementioned Laker series. A series where the Spurs also shot 47% from downtown, led by Bruce Bowens ungodly 17 for 26 in the series (by the way he led the league in 3 point shooting that year and was probably the best perimeter defender in the league)
They may have lacked a reliable 2nd scorer, but the same could be said for every Cav playoff team Lebron played on. That spurs teams was just well put together, a well oiled machine under Pop. Easily one of the lesser casts in recent years, but lets not compare them to cleveland
The best Cav cast Lebron played with was in 09 and he was eliminated that year while averaging 39-8-8 against Orlando, can't do much more.
I don't think Indiana is a legit contender, last years ECF aside. Just not enough offensive weapons to make up for not having a great offensive player.
Its more about the efficiency than it is the raw ppg for George
In the case of Indiana though you always have to account for the fact that Hibbert is a totally different player offensively against Miami's front court than he is against any team that actually has a Center. He averaged 22 and 10 against them in last years series and was clearly the most valuable Pacer on the floor. The only time the Heat have done a decent job on him in the last 10 or so meetings is the most recent matchup earlier this season because hibbert got in foul trouble
Im rooting for Miami when that series comes, and Roy Hibbert scares the shit out of me, way more than he ever should. Ive just seen him eviscerate Miami's small ball front court too regularly. Greg Oden is the only guy on their roster who isn't completely physically overmatched
as the regular season sample, so i don't know why the playoff sample is the one we disregard
But i agree Roy Hibbert averaging 22 a game for 7 games against anyone is always an anomaly. I do expect him to be north of his normal averages in that matchup though, every big man kills Miami. And West is a matchup nightmare too the way Miami is asking Battier to guard the 4 spot this year. Their traditional 4/5 tandem and size up front just gives Miami issues the way Miami lines up. You know going in they're going to massacre the Heat on the glass
Hibbert is averaging 11 ppg this year on .458 % FGs. If the Heat hold him to that they win the series in 5 games tops.
Of course Wade was also highly ineffective in last years series because of the knee issues. We don't know how hes going to be physically over 2 months from now. But unless he's out entirely, its tough for him not to be better than he was in last years playoffs
Miami is the clear favorite but Indiana just matches up very well
as giving George the chance to shine, but that really killed Indy in the long run IMO. Him and his 18ppg and nice shooting on the wing with George and with Stephenson's energy coming off the bench would have made them a much tougher out IMO.
Behind them you have a Rocket team who has the best record in the league since the break, 43-19 overall, Harden and Dwight both playing first team all nba caliber basketball this year and will probably both be selected as such. Just knocked off Miami and Indiana in the past few days.
A surging Clipper team at 44-20 despite missing Paul for 6 weeks, with the best point differential in the league, and very arguably two of the top 5-7 players in the game
Those 6 teams right there, in any order you want to rank them, is probably the most impressive top 6 the NBA has had in a long time. As strong as any year i've seen
And im not going to even include Portland who record wise is right there with all of them, mainly because they lack playoff experience and have struggled defensively this year (although they do lead the nba in d-rating since the all star break)
Nor will i include Golden State who may be up and down but can win anywhere, anytime, against anyone, and will be a bitch in a series for anyone to handle if theyre healthy
The top 1/4 of the league this year is as strong as its been in a long time. Of course you'd love to see it more evenly distributed between the East and West, it would make for a much more well rounded postseason. But the Western playoffs are going to be crazy
Joe, funny how the argument that the NBA is a weaker product
seems to always creep up when that couldn't be any further from the truth. The NBA is as healthy as ever, and that's with marquee franchises struggling (Lakers, Celtics, and Knicks).
The only thing i would quibble with is the conference imbalance. The Eastern playoffs are going to likely be horrible before the ECF
Every era has its detractors as its in progress. Jerry West said what he said, and take nothing away from his career at one point in time as a player and talent evaluator, but dude is pushing 80, 10 years ago he lost his marbles, went on national tv and made a fool of himself not even knowing where Hakim Warrick went to college when he drafted him. He just came off as a bitter old man in his rant
Long term this period right here is going to be looked at as a glory age of sorts, no era is looked at that way when in progress. The athletes have never been better, the skill level has never been higher, guys shoot it better than they ever have. Defense is better and more complicated than ever. The current crop of stars will be remembered quite fondly 15-20 years from now, spearheaded by the two guys at the top who are giving us one of the GOAT MVP races in terms of quality of play for the top 2 guys
i meant best record since new years for houston, not best since the all star break. The latter may or may not also be true, but the former is, and is more impressive over a longer sample. Don't know why i wrote since the break
Bulls always do a great job of keeping him out of paint unless its in transition, he'll be forced to knock him down today and was off again in that 1st quarter
Chicago always plays Miami well in chicago during the regular season. I think they're 6-1 in the Lebron era at the united center. Postseason though its 1-4
most of the players hate it and complain about it being restrictive, and in three games with them (christmas at la, all star game, at SA thursday) he couldn't buy a J. It was something like 1 for 20 on jumpers, and he voiced displeasure with the sleeves each time. The only time it seemed to make headlines though was in SA.
RE: To no ones surprise ill defend him a bit on that
most of the players hate it and complain about it being restrictive, and in three games with them (christmas at la, all star game, at SA thursday) he couldn't buy a J. It was something like 1 for 20 on jumpers, and he voiced displeasure with the sleeves each time. The only time it seemed to make headlines though was in SA.
I think it also came a game or 2 after his 61 point game. Wonder if he thought about wearing a bigger size so he could have that extra room??
and enough of the mother fucking Lakers on national TV. As if we havent had to suffer through them enough, we get them twice against OKC and SA in the next 10 or so days. Great.
and enough of the mother fucking Lakers on national TV. As if we havent had to suffer through them enough, we get them twice against OKC and SA in the next 10 or so days. Great.
There has been way too many Knick games as well on national TV. NBA has gotten a lot of bad breaks this year with it.
way too many Bulls games too. Don't get me wrong, the Bulls are solid, but they aren't the most watchable. They ugly every game up with their defense and their own offensive futility, and they're leading the nba in national tv games this year.
way too many Bulls games too. Don't get me wrong, the Bulls are solid, but they aren't the most watchable. They ugly every game up with their defense and their own offensive futility, and they're leading the nba in national tv games this year.
I think the problem is that you need to show some eastern conference/midwest games. Outside Miami and Indy.... the Knciks and Bulls were suppose to be watchable. Well the Knicks suck, Rose got hurt. And thats that. Indy isnt very watchable either.
I don't blame the networks for the Rose injury, its just a bad break for the national tv sked. But i didn't think they should have led the league, i think it was 33 games entering the year with more coming on nba tv fan nights
The Lakers you knew were going to struggle to make the playoffs. Howard bolting, Kobe missing at least the first 1/3 of the year with the achilles. Putting them on so much was destined to blow up in their face
With the Knicks, no one could have predicted this shit show of a year
How many offensive boards are they gonna allow the bulls down the stretch of this game? Even when Miami goes "big" and plays Bosh and Birdman together (which is rare) they still get horsed on the boards, i think every bucket the bulls have scored in OT has been a 2nd chance point
Who is not really that great but you never want to see him play for another team besides yours.
Sounds like you are selling him short. He plays fantastic defense which was on display tonight. He's got a lot to learn on offense but that's not why he's here.
is why the Bulls could trade Deng. Better off using that Deng cap room for Mirotic who has elite stretch 4 upside and is already at a high level in a league that's better than NCAA.
This recent three game trip by Lebron and the Heat
makes Durant the MVP frontrunner at this point. After Lebron's 61 point game, there was a growing national sentiment that he had arguably surpassed KD this year. I still had KD slightly ahead at that time, but actual voters like Michael Wilbon and one of the ESPN writers were openly leaning LBJ.
But he kind of eased his way into the season, limited minutes first couple months, was nagged by injuries some, coasted a bit defensively. Still wildly productive and showed great closing speed with that 7-8 week stretch heading into this road trip to put himself right there with Durants years even when Durant is having one of the very best seasons in league history by many measures. But from November through March Durant has just had the better full season campaign.
There is still a lot of time left. Ultimately i think the guy who gets it will be the one with the best record, whether thats fair or not
Vsonic think he's a great player and doubt he'll be an all star. He's a great defender and an ok offensive player, but what I really like about him is he's not scared of the moment or of great players. He's got some dog in him but not the JR Smith no one can guard me I'm going to chuck contested 28 footers kind of dog. He's tough but plays under control within the team concept.
if they lose the Spurs own the best record in the league in their sole possession. Despite being hit with a ton of injuries, nursing everyone through the season minutes wise. They're just a machine.
Miami could actually gain ground on Indy during their 3 game losing streak
just killed it down the stretch against a very good team in a playoff atmosphere. He has been on fire for the past 15 or so games. He's still a little inconsistent with his outside shot, but when he is feeling it from outside he is impossible to guard because he can get to the rim so easily. Problem with him is the outside shot is a little more hot/cold than you'd like.
His two biggest issues coming into the season were his defense and his lack of a mid-range game. His defense is still an issue, I think it gets blown a little out of proportion because of all the ugly gifs but he is absolutely a below-average defender. He seems to play better against slower/bigger opponents than speedy guys on the outside. But he has definitely improved his mid-range game this year and is going to work in that high post area more often. That has instantly made 2014 Harden a more complete offensive player and tougher to guard than 2013 Harden, even if their offensive stats are identical. Hopefully this helps him have a better playoff run when he will run into top defenses.
The Rockets look really good right now. They are piling up some quality wins over legit contenders and their two stars are both playing at a Top 10 in the league level over this stretch. They are a legit title contender if they play like this.
for Phoenix not of make the playoffs after the year they've had. They're not going to have much success if they get there, but just being in it would be such a great accomplishment for a team that was supposed to be one of the league's worst.
At the top of the West, there's still real value in getting the 2 seed and avoiding GS in the 1st round. As flaky as the Warriors can be, they're dangerous - much more so than Dallas, Memphis, or Phoenix. OKC is 2 up for #2, but HOU and LAC are really hot.
Big game for the Nets tonight against Toronto - basically must-win if they want to stay in contention for the Atlantic.
the one thing that would worry me about Harden during the playoffs is that a big part of his game is initiating contact in the lane while driving and getting to the line.
If the refs dont call those fouls where he is trying to draw contact, his game gets affected big time.
is still something I'm not 100% sold on. He's a hot/cold shooter and when his shot is off he tries to get to the rim and draw fouls, which won't be called as much in the playoffs.
But the improvement in his mid-range game has made him less reliant on drawing fouls on drives to the rim.
Let's say that 0-5 feet is the "At Rim" area, 6 feet to the inside of the 3pt line is the "Mid-Range" area, beyond the 3pt line is a 3 pointer duh. These are Harden's FG% by distance in those areas over the past 2 years...
The difference between .414 and .332 might not seem massive but it really is. His mid-range game is respectable this season. Last season he lived and died at the lines, both the 3 point and Free throw lines. This year he is a little more versatile offensively and can get his in more areas of the floor, which is especially helpful with a big guy down low like Dwight.
We'll see how he does in the playoffs but I think he is better suited to face elite defenses than he was last year.
and the Warriors pass the Trailblazers for the #5 spot. Should that happen, it's highly likely they'll play the Clippers in the first round. That will be entertaining television of the highest caliber.
in what is their last shot at making a run at the division.
the brooklyn backcourt having a strong showing after Toronto blitzed them early
terrence ross is a heck of a talent, and duane casey should be coach of the year candidate
tie game entering the 4th. Marcin Gortat is just abusing Miami like virtually every Center does, 14 pts and 17 rebs entering the 4th. Heat looking to avoid a 4th straight loss
Another huge game for Al Jefferson tonight in Charlotte. And ever since they snubbed him for the all star game he has been ridiculous
for the Nets and a really entertaining game to watch, even with both teams on a B2B. I've been really impressed with Paul Pierce for the past few months. He's been matched up with 4's and holding his own. The guy is a really good rebounder for his size, makes smart plays, does all the little things (all the cliche stuff, but it's true) - even if the shot isn't falling he contributes quite a bit.
Plumlee has been shockingly good this year. No offensive skill and needs some defensive refinement, but he's looked the part overall, can really finish around the rim, and provided athleticism/energy that the Nets can't get anywhere else. I wonder if he'd be able to play major minutes with Lopez going forward. I think it's possible depending on matchup.
hes now 14 for 15 from the floor and most of this is outside of the paint. He has 35 early in the 3rd, hed have more if he didnt have to sit the final few minutes of the first half due to foul trouble. Phoenix is now throwing multiple guys at him to deny him the ball
This is a blowout so he may not even play in the 4th
Is the NBA better off with him being on a Rockets team, adding another contender, or still being on the Thunder, making that an almost unbeatable team?
There really is no right answer to that either way. But from a business perspective, that trade led to the Dwight signing which has now transformed a top 5 media market in Houston into a contender for the next half decade. The league definitely isn't mad at that
It was also the best thing for James Harden. He would have never been allowed the opportunity to hit his true ceiling in OKC, there's only one basketball to go around and he'd probably still be the guy sacrificing shots and minutes there. OKC would undoubtedly be better with him, but they wouldn't be quite as unbeatable as it seems on paper
The better question is how good would the Rockets be if Goran Dragic
was their starting PG (while getting paid a lower AAV than Jeremy is making)? I know there's a question of Harden and Dragic playing together, but the Lin signing was ridiculous.
though its a bit different because he was never actually part of the team
But Roy Hibbert agreed to terms with the Blazers in restricted FA two years ago, and the Pacers had to think long and hard about matching because this is before he truly broke out as a DPOY candidate and everything was based on upside, plus the Pacers generally watch the purse... Imagine they didn't match? The East is a 1 team race, and Portland surely isn't such a mediocre team defensively. They have the top offense in the league this year, they'd probably have a top 10 defense too with him anchoring the paint. And we actually might be looking at them as a legit threat
By the way Bynum looked great for the Pacers last night. Another big body that Miami can't match up with if his head is on straight.
The Los Angeles Lakers have ruled Kobe Bryant out for the remainder of the season after a re-examination of the veteran guard's injured knee showed it still hadn't healed, the team announced Wednesday.
it immediately reminded me of Jeter. Both guys were clearly banged up right before they suffered their injuries. Their comebacks also feel similar, old vets working their ass off to come back as early as possible when they probably should've waited a little longer. And the end result for both Jeter and Kobe was basically a full missed season minus a cameo.
The contract they gave to Kobe was so ridiculously stupid. I hope Kobe can bounce back next year though, he's arguably one of the 10 best to ever lace them up.
I don't recall there being a lot of thought that the Pacers wouldn't match. That's why there were comments attributed to Hibbert that he didn't want to play in Indiana anymore and didn't want them to match... that was the only card they had left to play in order to get him to Portland.
My question is why haven't the Blazers been more proactive in adding veteran bench types? (The Clippers, for example, are loaded with those types of players.) They're actually in the bottom third in team salary this season and I can't imagine Paul Allen is too cheap to add salary.
a 4 1/2 game stretch as i could recall Lebron having in years. He is really out of sync right now with his jumper and hasn't been as aggressive attacking the paint since the broken nose.
Miami is just going through one of those regular season lulls right now. Thankfully for them the Pacers are too.
stayed on the ground for several minutes surrounded by teammates, then was helped to the locker room by two helping hands in obvious pain
Blake Griffin just committed a foul on a half court heave in the act of shooting at the end of the 1st quarter. Allowing GS to tie it at 29 at the end of 1.
If the Clips win this game they will have won 9 in a row and do not play a +500 team for the next 6. I thought when they got this to 5 that this streak had potential to hit the mid teens. If they get through tonight it may be free sailing for a while. The one that could get dicey is at denver on a back to back night, playing in that altitude especially on a back to back can be tricky
10/11 shooting at Cleveland. This could easily be another 60+ the way he is locked in right now if the score permits it and if he rides this wave and chases that type of night
had trouble finding shots in that 2nd quarter, Cavs were doubling on every single touch, not trying to be the other team on the end of a 60+ storyline. He forced a couple heat checks against tight defense, finishes the half with 31 pts on 12/16 shooting, 6/8 threes, only 1 for 5 at the ft line though
First of all, that thread was a joke. A few hockey players in full pads from head to toe come back after some injuries and play which adds up to all hockey players are super-tough? Was that the point of that thread?
Dunleavy gets run over and rocked. He takes the charge. Gets an elbow to the head. Blood everywhere. He runs off. They stitch him up. And he comes back to put up 18pts in the next quarter! That was impressive.
only wound up getting 19 shots on the night. Cleveland was selling out to stop him after that first quarter, bringing double teams. helping over every screen, trapping to get the ball out of his hands. They were not going to be on sportscenter tonight as the bystander in Lebron's 60 point parade. Dan Gilbert may have executed Mike Brown and the whole team tonight if they were
43 pts on fewer than 20 FG attempts and fewer than 15 FT attempts is ridiculously rare. Lebron accomplishing it tonight is only the 5th such effort in the past 30 years by a player
are a disgrace. I generally couldn't give a shit about tanking, but the moves they made at the deadline pretty much crossed a line. This is no regular tank, the team they put on the floor right now is inexcusably bad. They're going to at minimum tie the nba record for consecutive losses with 26. It's an embarrassment to the NBA. I wish them no lotto luck
same knee that needed three surgeries since last april. Collision with Kyle Lowry. Out for the night, they're calling it a sprain initially like everyone always does, but it didn't look great and an mri is probably pending
I don't care how well they played during the 30 or so games he has missed. Just like last season it will be 2nd round at best
Marc Gasol sprained his ankle tonight against Miami too. Since he returned from his injury earlier this year, Memphis has the best record in the West. Without him they've been terrible. If he has to miss a few games that could really hurt them in that 8 seed race
He's one of my favorite players to watch. Was just talking to a friend earlier today that maybe the Knicks could somehow steal this kid from okc in some kind of a chandler deal this offseason. Of course he said I was nuts okc never does that deal and Westbrook is always hurt.. On queue... Hurt again.
Before the Beverly incident last year in the playoffs
which started all the problems with that knee, he had never missed a game in his life at any level. High School, College, Pro. He was the example of an iron man. Now he just can't get past the issues with that knee. And fair or not people blame Beverly for each subsequent injury he has suffered there. Crazy to think a career could be altered while calling a timeout
I believe he is also like 5 or 6 games shy of breaking Jordans record for consecutive 25+ point games since the merger. Jordan did it 40, KD is up to 35 or 36 now. And of course on ridiculous efficiency. No one in the history of the game has averaged this many pts on this high a TS%. It's one of the finest pure scoring seasons in the history of the sport
you could truly argue Kevin Durant's 2014 as the GOAT pure scoring season. It's at minimum on a very short list.
When you adjust for pace, seasons where a player averaged a minimum of 32 points per 75 possessions, and their TS% relative to the league average (la) in parenthesis
Quote:
1987 Jordan 34.8 pts/75 (+2.4 vs la TS%)
2006 Kobe 34.2 pts/75 (+2.3 vs la TS%)
1988 Jordan 32.7 pts/75 (+6.6 vs la TS%)
1993 Jordan 32.2 pts/75 (+2.8 vs la TS%)
1990 Jordan 32.1 pts/75 (+6.9 vs la TS%) 2014 Durant 32.0 pts/75 (+10.0 vs la TS%)
1991 Jordan 32.0 pts/75 +7.1 vs la TS%
He is redefining the bounds of just how efficient a huge volume scorer like that can be. Strictly speaking from a pure scoring standpoint, he is as impactful right now as Jordan ever was and more efficient
that LeBron James and Anthony Davis were the only two players in the NBA with GOAT potential.
I was wrong, there are 3. I had no idea that Kevin Durant had this level he could get to. I thought he'd be a Barkley-tier type of player but he is clearly a level above that. He is closer to the Bird/Magic level than he is the Barkley/Karl Malone level. All-time great player and it's fucking awesome that we get to see him go head to head vs. LeBron with both in their primes.
But the more I watch Anthony Davis the more and more I feel confident about his future. I think he'll end up the GOAT if he stays healthy.
LeBron at 29. Durant at 25. Davis at 21. Pretty damn awesome.
That's immensely high praise. I'm similarly optimistic about Davis's potential but I think if he's ever going to challenge for GOAT status, he's going to have to develop his offensive game such that he can be a go to type scorer.
said he thinks Davis can be better then Duncan. Thats pretty insane. What Davis needs to show most, IMHO, is durability before we start to see what level that talent can really reach.
I've been sold on his defense for a long long time. But I always liked the glimpses of offense I saw at Kentucky. He had a nice touch and you could see that he was very fluid and could dribble the ball and drive. But Calipari really limited him offensively. His rookie year was just ok but I was impressed with the offense.
This year I'm completely sold on the offense. He has it all. I think he will end up scoring 25+ PPG in his prime, maybe even 28+ PPG. He is averaging 21.7 PPG on .589 TS% right now at age 21.
22/10 + .589 TS% + Good Defense (Age 21)
Is it really hard to see that become this in a couple of years...
26/12 + .600 TS% + DPOY-level Defense
I don't think it is, and if he reached the above level then he'd absolutely be considered one of the most dominated players ever.
jumper. I watch his offensive game and it's pretty good for a guy his age, but it doesn't look like it's going to be a typical low post game (that's uncook these days anyway). If that jumper comes, however, with the dribble drive game he has for a big, he's going to be a monster.
how could you not, had no doubt he would one day be a top 5 active player. But when Osi started throwing around GOAT potential before this season started, i admired the stance taken yet at the same time had my serious doubts. That's just different level praise tough to ever project, especially given his track record at the time.
I give Osi a ton of credit though, because at this time its tough for me to envision a ceiling for Anthony Davis. What he is doing at his age, the rate of improvement as the season has unfolded, these last three weeks hes been on a basketball God level. His skill level for someone that size is insane. I think his defense is probably a bit overrated at the time based on his splash stats and probably even behind his offense, which most wouldn't have expected coming out of Kentucky. But in short order this guy is going to be a two way monster
and im never one to sound the alarm on them or overreact too much to the valleys in the 82 game marathon. But watching this team every single night there are major red flags at this point
This is the most beat up Lebron James has ever been in a season in his life. You can't see it by the games missed total because he has played through it, but hes battled multiple times with lingering back spasms, most recently 4-5 days ago. A strained groin that he played through for a few weeks, the broken nose, about 4 separate ankle sprains, most recently saturday, but they can't give him a night off tonight because D-Wade has to take his usual one every three games off for maintenance, and they won't sit both in a race for the 1 seed.
He does have the same burst he did 6-7 weeks ago. He is mired in the worst 10 game stretch he has had since he became the consensus best player in the league during the 09 season. This is a guy who has played 4 seasons worth of basketball in the last 3 years when you include playoffs, plus his olympic play. All these consecutive finals runs and the added minutes load that come with it take their toll. Mentally and physically. I am legitimately worried that the very best of Lebron might be behind us. Thats not to say he won't still be dominant and contend for titles for several years to come. Much like MJ wasn't as good during the 2nd 3peat as he was in the first.
But forget about just Lebron. People don't realize how old this Heat team is. Oldest in the league. The majority of the rotation is on the wrong side of 30, with three of their top 7 rotation players on the wrong side of 35. They don't possess the team speed they once did, which helped them cover somewhat defensively for their lack of paint protection, but this years its all gone to shit defensively. And its not as simple as "they're just coasting". They are not as deep, Mike Miller was a definite loss. They're as bad as ever on the boards, this years team is even worse than last years team which was the worst ever rebounding team to win a title. Maybe inserting Oden into the starting lineup can help, but thats about as big a maybe as there is even though i like the way he has come along
Its gonna be tough this year. If they can get it done its the most successful 4 year team stretch since Russell's Celts
Miami, SA, OKC, Indy, LAC.... Some might scoff at the Clips because of playoffs past, but I don't think thats fair. This very clearly is a different team and unlike the past two maybe they'll actually be healthy in the playoffs
Among those 5 teams though its all about matchups. I think the only team Indiana could conceivably beat among those 5 in a 7 game series is Miami, because of their size and the major matchup bind they put Miami into. I think the Western teams would handle them fairly easily. They have strong enough interior defenses and are good enough on the defensive glass to not allow Roy Hibbert to look like shaq against them.
OKC matches up incredibly well with the Spurs, completely owns them. If Westbrook was healthy we get another Heat-Thunder finals last year. As someone who is rooting for Miami to take it this year, Id much rather they see OKC in the finals than SA though, also because of the matchup. SA is built to give Miami problems. They have done a solid job on Lebron in the past and their ball movement is built to find open looks against Miami's trapping style, plus with the attention they have to pay to Duncan inside with bosh unable to handle him 1 on 1, their shooters get open looks whenever they want. Marco Belenelli would probably break the finals record for threes that Danny Green set last year
I think the Heat would wipe the floor with the clips though. Thats just a terrible matchup for LA. They have no answers at all defensively on the wing to battle Lebron and Wade.
but I think they should be on the same tier as the Warriors. Ahead of the Blazers and behind the top 3 out West. I don't think they are quite ready to challenge for a title like the top 3 teams seem poised to do. But the Warriors and Rockets can both beat any team in the NBA in a series. I don't think you could say the same about the Blazers which is why I'd put them at the tail end of this. I think the Grizzlies are probably a more dangerous team than the Blazers but they'll probably get a much tougher 1st round matchup.
escorted into the locker room. If its serious add another layer of Heat concern to the post above. That wouldn't be a loss to easily brush off. He's a great fit spacing wise and has had a habit of knocking down some big shots and having big games in big postseason spots through their runs.
is a huge loss for Miami in the playoffs. Battier has cold spells that Miller doesn't and Battier's release is much slower, which is a factor against good Ds. If Battier is in a funk, there's really no point in them going small and it changes their entire approach. There's no sense in letting West maul him on D if he's not hitting 3's. Allen isn't hitting the 3 like he usually does either. The way Miami is set up, they need to be good from downtown or just get monumental performances from their stars.
For me, they're still favorites, but they're going to need the big 3 to come up huge.
Of course it's not like the Pacers have been setting the world on fire either. They've beat a playoff team one time in like that past 5-6 weeks.
it was all about the owners pockets, nothing more. He just didn't want to pay the tax so they used their amnesty on him to get below the threshold. Something you wouldn't see in a NY or an LA
Its also hurt them this year in the games they have to play without Wade (which are more frequent than ever). They used to just slide Miller into the starting lineup, keep Ray allen in his regular role, and they didn't miss a beat, They were something like 24-4 entering the season without Wade. This year they really struggled in non Wade games before picking it up recently. But it definitely cost them a few games early
but hasn't griffin looked somewhat respectable against LeBron in the past? it would suck if a LAC/MIA finals is another 4-1 okc like finals like you're kinda suggesting MoM given the star power and expectations a finals match up like that would bring. it'd be fun to watch.
Lebron won't be guarding Griffin much if at all in that series if it comes. Griffin will still get his against Miami's defenders by committee no doubt.
But my issue with them in a Miami matchup is that they're just not constructed to give Miami problems. Among the contenders, they are by far the least equipped to capitalize on the Heats soft interior. They're a poor rebounding team (even though they have the leagues leading rebounder), Deandre Jordan (as useful as he is) isn't capable of offensively exploiting the Heats vulnerabilities at the 5 spot defensively. They're not very athletic on the wings. Lebron and D-Wade are licking their chops to see the waves of wing defenders the clips have at their disposal to throw at them. They have no one to match up.
The clips could maybe win a couple games, im just saying if Im miami, they are not a team i fear whatsoever in a 7 game series.
after blowing a 12 pt 4th quarter lead and allowing the Blazers to tie with 30 sec left. Lebron hits the go ahead bucket on the Heats final possession, Bosh swats Lillard on Portlands bid to tie at the buzzer
they would ask him to do that for anything more than spot possessions. I do remember Griffin guarding Lebron a bit in their first matchup this year in Miami (a game where Lebron suffered back spasms on national tv tnt), but that was only because the clips were banged up at SF and didn't have their normal options available.
Matt Barnes would draw the assignment on Lebron to start at least. Danny Granger off the bench is now firmly transitioned into their rotation and he'd see minutes too, maybe some Turkoglu. Thats just too much to ask from Griffin and would also take away from his offense with the energy he would have to expend on the defensive end. Plus Lebron would love to be guarded by a natural 4 like Griffin, even as freakish athletically as Griffin is, hes a fish out of water in that matchup
But the Wade matchup is a nightmare too if hes healthy. Jamal Crawford, JJ Redick (if he even returns) Willie Green are not guarding D-Wade.
holy shit what happened in this nets game. Last time i looked they were up huge, now its tied late
could be an interesting fun series. All I know no one wants to go 7 with Chicago, especially in the 2nd round. They dont have the fire power to win it, but could make the Pacers/heat work for everything.
The Pacers have the best defense the league has seen in 10 years, you have to recognize that, and Hibbert is the anchor who the defense is built around. Plus, even though these on/off stats can be misleading, not only does the Bulls defense see no dip in efficiency when Noah is off the floor, they're actually even better, by about 2 pts per 100 possessions. Thats not to take anything away from Noah and over a longer sample size you'd see that trend reverse some, but Thibs is as valuable a defensive piece right now as Noah or any player is.
As far as Taj Gibson and the 6th man award. I don't know. I havent spent two seconds thinking about that award. My initial gut reaction is that front court players like him who aren't instant offense guys are generally not on the voters minds when it comes to these awards. But he is certainly deserving. He's closing games for them all the time too even if he doesn't start them
you're making two different kinds of arguements for the DPOY
One is merit and the other is non-merit/flashiness/media attention.
I think if you reversed those, Noah could win DPOY because he's been getting so much attention for his all around play and Taj could win 6th man of the year because he's putting up 13 and 7 with elite defense which I'd argue is more valuable then the 16 ppg + not good defense that often wins it for spark plug combo guard guys.
and the reason the Bulls defense is still so good without Noah
is because Taj is usually there when Noah is out and he's also one of the best big man defenders in the league. Indiana doesn't have nearly that caliber of big defender coming off their bench, so Hibbert's absence is more obvious.
Im just telling you how voters usually think when it comes to that award. Look at the guys who win it every year, 90% of them fit the same mold and they don't look like Taj Gibson. They look like JR Smith, Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry, Ben gordon, the instant energy two guard who comes off the bench and fills it up
I agree with you that he brings is more valuable than what someone like JR smith brought last year
I haven't gone through candidates in my mind though who would be on a short list this year though
talk again and I think its crazy talk. He's going to be great for sure, but I don't see the absolutely unique skill level that it would require. I don't think he's as skilled as KG was at the same age.
I think he'll end up as some kind of combination of prime KG and prime Dwight Howard.
you saw GOAT ability. That size/athleticism combo with his court vision/passing ability has never been seen before. People were comparing him to Magic and MJ right off the bat.
Durant is also unique in history of the league. There's been no one with his length, athleticism and shooting combo.
is in the midst of a better month offensively than Kevin Garnett has ever had in his career. And when this month started, Davis was 20 years old. Garnett most certainly was not more skilled than Davis offensively at this stage of his career, and really didn't master that knockdown mid range jumper until his mid 20s.
Im selling Anthony Davis=future GOAT because thats just the easy thing to do. Im never going to say that about a 21 year old. But its tough to envision a ceiling with him
as Davis which is why he wasn't as good at the same age. However he was a better ball handler and passer then Davis will likely ever be.
Davis has a nice J, but a lot of his points come from running the floor and just being physically dominant (much more so than KG).
He's got no physical limitations, but then again neither does Wiggins. Not having physical limitations is not the same as being a GOAT candidate. Could he develop an amazing back to the basket game like TD or the point PF skills of a KG that combined with his unique physical ability might put him in that discussion? Sure, but its not likely and impossible to project,
I think you're underselling Davis' skill level. I think his handle and ability going to the rim are actually very good for a PF. I don't think you get the sort of efficiency and volume AD has without having a high skill level.
One brief note on Wiggins - he's got a lot of developing to do, but I think he's getting underrated at this point. I think his ceiling his higher than Paul George though certainly lower than a generational type. He looks pretty comfortable with the ball in his hands - that's the key for me. Shooting and decision making can develop, but rarely have I seen players make big improvements in their ball handling ability by the time they're in the league. I think that's one of the reasons George's offensive game will forwver have a lower ceiling than other forwards.
who have been as good or better than Anthony Davis in the history of this league at the same age are named Lebron James, Shaquille Oneal, and Magic Johnson. That's it.
Longer wingspan than Shawn Bradley with offensive touch and a runs like a guard.
And Davis certainly didn't have a major strength edge on KG at the same age. Thats just another area he will grow. He has openly said if he had to do it over again he would have stayed at Kentucky a year longer and hit the weights, because he was overwhelmed by the physicality last year as a rookie. (See his interview on youtube with bill simmons at the all star break). This year hes gotten a little bigger, but i just watched Andray Blatche bully his way to deep post position against him a few times tonight, went right through his chest and knocked him back. He's not close to as strong physically as he will be, hes a baby, and you see that defensively pretty often despite his block and steal stats
the 3rd best player in the game at the age of 21 and that he can be a combination of Prime Garnett and Prime Dwight Howard.
And this is supposed to be you doubting the GOAT talk?
If Garnett and Dwight Howard were combined, they would create a freakish defensive force. DPOY caliber bigs every single year. Guys who make the type of impact that Garnett and Prime Howard do on D are very rare and very valuable. There's a select list that make an impact on Defense like that... Kevin Durant and LeBron James are not on that list.
That's where he has a built-in advantage over those two. He doesn't have to be the same caliber offensive player as Durant or LeBron to be a better overall player. LeBron is a fantastic defender but bigs can impact a defense so much more.
He might not be Durant or LeBron in terms of offense, but he'll be better than Garnett and especially better than Dwight Howard.
Garnett was a better ball-handler and passer than Davis. I don't think that will ever change, Garnett was rare in that respect. But Davis has a much better scoring skillset because he can attack the rim and is far better inside than Garnett. He is going to be unstoppable in the PnR game. Garnett's passing is nice but Davis can be a better offensive player because of his scoring.
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to bash Davis - I'm not at all. He's obviously a great player and I think a probable HOFer.
He does have a nice jump shot and can handle a bit for a PF/C. I'd say he's got good skills, but nothing that jumps out outside his physical ability.
I disagree with you though that you can't put up big volume and efficiency numbers without much skill (again not that Davis hasn't got skills). Dwight Howard put up 20 + on great efficiency and I don't think he was/is very skilled at all.
I think, in addition to his jumper, Davis gets a lot of points by being an overwhelming physical talent rather than a supremely skilled player at this point. He out runs guys for easy transition baskets, finishes over and through guys in the half court.
I wouldn't be shocked if Wiggins becomes a Paul George level player(who I think is closer to the level he's been playing the past few months than how he started the season). I'd be shocked if Wiggins is ever in the best player in the league conversation, which was where his hype was at at the beginning of the season.
Even if he's a better scorer than Garnett, he won't necessarily be a better offensive player. Garnett was a point PF who averaged 5+ assists in his prime. He was one of those rare non-PGs who made his teammates better on the offensive end even when he wasn't scoring.
offensive player because of those assists. It was incredibly impressive for a man his height but I'd rather have my big be a better scorer than passer. Tim Duncan wasn't the versatile passer KG was but he was a more impactful offensive player because he could go in the low post and score or allow his shooters on the outside to get good looks. KG as an offensive player only was very good but his defense is why he is considered a Top 20 player ever.
Davis' scoring potential is so far beyond what Garnett accomplished. Davis may never be a great low-post scorer and that may turn out to be what keeps him from his ultimate ceiling, but I don't think he needs one to become a much better scorer than KG and even Duncan.
I think AD is scoring close to 24 ppg by next season. AD is a freakish athlete but Dwight, when younger and healthier, might have been even better because of his unworldly strength. I think other Dwight or maybe a young Shawn Kemp, you're not gonna find anyone else who's scoring the way Davis is without a good skill level.
Garnett is criminally underrated as an offensive player
because he wasn't a closer (like most bigs) and didn't have a closer on his team, unlike TD.
The offense, one of the better ones in the league every year despite a bunch of b and c level players, ran through KG. I love TD, but I don't think there's much separating him and KG (and I hate KG) besides teammates.
You made a great call on Davis' greatness early, but there's very little upon which to base a claim for him being a future GOAT candidate. There's a huge gap between all time great (e.g. Tim Duncan) and GOAT i.e. MJ.
KG (age 20): 17.0 PPG -- .537 TS% -- 18.2 PER
KG (21-30): 21.9 PPG -- .545 TS% -- 25.0 PER
AD (age 20): 21.7 PPG -- .589 TS% -- 27.2 PER
He is going to be a very good scorer.
Simply put a guy who can be the DPOY and MVP in the same year is a legendary player. Anthony Davis is the type of guy who can be in the MVP and DPOY mix every single year of his prime. Can't wait to see how great he becomes.
Imagine if Tim Duncan had to play in Minnesota for Flip Saunders
and KG played for Pop in SA instead. I think if KG had that type of fortune, he'd have been called "Best PF of all time" right now. Not undermining what Duncan has accomplished, but having a stable front office, great coaching staff, and a team with depth definitely alters the course of your career.
There's a bigger gap between Duncan and KG offensively
than first glance at regular season numbers. Check them in the playoffs, where its clear Duncan's skillset was more portable into that setting against the better defenses than KG. And he also possessed a much higher scorers ceiling in postseason play. You can count on the fingers you own how many times Garnett dropped 30 in a playoff game. You don't even need a finger to count how many times he scored more than 35 because it never happened. We've seen Duncan average 30+ in playoff series and come close many other times.
Career playoff TS% of .524 for KG, which is pretty poor. When you adjust for the added minutes bump guys get in the playoffs and instead compare per 36, his scoring went down in postseason play virtually every season as a Twolve compared to the regular season. He only twice averaged 20 pts per 36 minutes in the playoffs and once was a small sample size round 1 exit.
Compare this to Duncan who actually raises his per 36 scoring average in the playoffs, keeps a roughly identical career TS% to his regular season standard, and owns 75 of the top 100 playoff scoring efforts between the two players.
Duncan is the poster boy for efficiency and coming through when
it matters. However, I do think it makes a huge difference to come into a situation where you have David Robinson, Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, and arguably the best coach in the league. Pop is tops in the X's and O's, and has done a tremendous job in developing the rest of the roster. KG wasted prime years in Minnesota.
But before moving KG to Duncan territory, I'm still not sure we can slide him past Dirk. Apples and oranges as they are as players, I think its easier to build around Dirk than it is KG given Garnett's limitations as a go to guy in the playoffs. He is basically a big man Pippen in every sense, but obviously has even more defensive impact than Pippen given his size
Its a shame Dirk didn't get the credit until he got the ring, but hes one of the best playoff performers of all time. This was true before 2011. Off the charts statistically, and he found a way to lead two very different teams to NBA finals despite playing his career in a Western conference which basically had two dynasty;s in progress with LA and SA around him.
Ive seen him go into SA mid dynasty in 06 and drop 37 and 18 in a road game 7 to knock off the spurs who were defending champs. Ive seen him sweep through the Lakers in a Laker title defense season. Ive seen him be the best player on the floor in every series he played in the 2011 playoffs, series which included Kobe Bryant in a title defense season, Kevin Durant, Lebron James, D-Wade. I saw him sweep through KG in KGs prime in their only head to head meeting, averaging 33 ppg in the series on 53% shooting with 16 rebounds and KG guarding him. I saw him average 28 and 13 against the Suns in the 06 WCF to lead the Mavs to their first finals in franchise history.
Go look at his elimination game numbers. His game 7 numbers. Short list of best big game players ever. And he led the Mavericks to 50+ wins every year for a decade+ until the lockout season in 2012. Something thats only been done a handful of times in nba history.
You can';t convince me any version of Kevin Garnett wins a title with the 2011 Mavs. And i doubt highly that in dirk's place the Mavs enjoy the same success over the past 11-12 years
about the 'big man Pippen' comment, Im not in any way saying they're equal as players just incase anyone read it that way. Garnett was clearly the more impactful player in their primes. Im just saying it from the standpoint of being a secondary scorer with above average passing skills whose defense was off the charts. Garnett is Pippen if Pippen was 6'11" and everything else stays the same
I actually think Kobe and KG would have been ideal teammates
KG has lived in Malibu for quite some time. There was always chatter that a trade was in the works for KG. Kevin McHale did his boy Danny Ainge a huge favor in the Celtics trade. The Lakers pushed very hard for KG. He would have been an awesome fit with Kobe. KG defers a bit on the offensive side, but that suits Kobe.
Everyone is citing it was the longest win streak in the Poppovich era, but thats only by a technicality.
Just two years ago they had a 20 game win streak going including the playoffs (won last 10 of the regular season, first 10 of the playoffs to take a 2-0 series lead vs OKC in the Western Finals. Then OKC beat them 4 in a row to snap the streak, end their season and win the series in 6
Mark Jackson has forced a reassignment of Brian Scalabrine, league sources told Yahoo!
Scalabrine joined the Golden State Warriors in the offseason as an assistant coach.
Ownership and management have been strong advocates of Scalabrine and his performance on the job, but Jackson will have control of his staff for as long as he's head coach.
Scalabrine's role is unclear, but the Warriors want to retain him.
Jackson has one season remaining on his contract and the situation has become dysfunctional.
Jackson and Michael Malone would go weeks without speaking to each other last season.
Jackson has tried and failed to get involved with several head coaching openings over the past several months, including the Los Angeles Clippers and Brooklyn Nets, league sources said.
Ive always hated Scalabrine and don't view him as the loveable token white 12th man scrub so many do. He's a jackass. But thats a weird report from Woj. maybe Mark Jackson thinks the organization is grooming Scal to take his job
with the same old shit every time Miami plays Indy. Roy hibbert puts on his cinderella slippers and looks like fucking Wilt. Odens size isn't making a difference this time around early either
with the same old shit every time Miami plays Indy. Roy hibbert puts on his cinderella slippers and looks like fucking Wilt. Odens size isn't making a difference this time around early either
Hibbert made one nice move, but 2 buckets were deep lefty hook shots. Hibbert also only has 1 rebound (coming off when Oden blocked Stephenson's shot).
Also Hibbert is playing absolutely no defense in the lane so far. He let 4 guys go right to the basket because he stayed on Oden.
im not stating this from the standpoint of "roy hibbert is a beast!"
Im stating this from the standpoint that Miami's interior defense is beyond putrid to allow this to consistently happen. I can't name many teams past or present who would allow such an irrelevant offensive player to terrorize them with such consistency
Haslem has done a nice job on Hibbert since Spoelstra dusted him off late in that first half. Earned the right to start the 2nd half because of it over Oden
unless the heat are on the right side of it. But a 6 point swing in that 4th quarter. Wade three taken off the boarfd when he was mistakenly called out of bounds. West travels before hitting his three but its allowed to stand
no doubt, im not blaming the officials for the outcome. And there were some ticky tack fouls on Indy in that 2nd quarter when they got in the penalty and Miami had a parade to the line. And i didn't love the ouster of Lance even though i have no sympathy for him
Indiana basically grabbed the 1 seed tonight. they're going to own the tiebreaker too because the Heat won't catch them in conference record
Long term it might be for the best. Without the chase and the need to grind for the 1 seed, they can be selective here down the stretch with Lebron and Wade and get guys right heading into the playoffs, spot rest is easier to justify. Especially with Lebron who is beat up
Miami obviously would rather have the home court, but Miami can win a playoff game in Indiana, maybe even two. If they won't and Indiana is going to go 5-0 or 6-0 at home against the Heat this year, then they deserve to win the conference. You just tip your cap. There may be no such thing as the "due theory", but i have a tough time seeing Miami go 0-5 or 0-6 at Indiana this year
Im not saying not having home court is preferable for Miami
but you'd rather lose it now than in the last week of the season is what im saying. I think Miami knows they're locked into the 2 seed now pretty much, and they'll use this final stretch to get right health wise
Wade got hurt tonight again too. Maybe it was just a cramp, but it also could be a hammy
- Durant extends his streak of 25+ point games to 37. Three shy of Jordan for the longest such streak in 50 years. He scored 29 on just 11 FG attepmts (9/11 FG, 8/8 ft), didn't need to play the 4th quarter as they routed the Kings
- Lebron first triple double of the season, hes had tons of close calls. He didn't play the 4th either in a dominant win over Detroit
- As Dep mentioned, Anthony Davis ankle injury, havent heard anything further though
- Aldridge finally returns for the Blazers and they get a win in Chicago
- Toronto clinches a playoff berth. 30-16 since Christmas. Now pulled back ahead of Chicago for the 3 seed at the moment. They have a good chance to break the franchise record for wins (47) despite their very slow start prior to the Rudy Gay trade.
- Kevin Love triple double in a 143-107 win over the Lakers
- Nikola Vucevic with a 24 pt 23 reb game for Orlando as they beat Charlotte in OT
What a disgrace that either the Mavs, Grizzlies, or Suns..
will miss the playoffs at 13-14 games OVER .500 while a garbage team in the east will make it at 10 plus games UNDER .500.
That is awful and I know it's cyclical and it'll happen sometimes but it sucks. Also, any Knick fan that starts a thread about playoffs is an embarrassment. Let's get the pom poms out for a 30-43 team and root for the playoffs. That would be a complete joke if they made it. I can't wait until they clean house.
Lastly, I hope for Melo's case he leaves. He isn't a great all around player but he is a great scorer and it just looks bad that he is on a pathetic team this year, although not fair to him. Go play for a winning franchise/culture, he deserves that.
team age and distance covered during games in miles (from player tracking data) by the 5 guys on the floor. Look how much player movement is going on with SA compared to many other teams
On another note, look at Miami's functional age weighted by allotted minutes. Like i was talking about in a prior post on this thread, the public doesn;t look at Miami as an "old" team because Lebron is the face at 29, but they're the oldest one in this league. Not surprisingly they are also bottom 5 is distance covered during games. They're just not as active as they have been in past years
distance covered doesn't necessarily equate to wins or even hustle. As most of the title contenders are on the bottom side of that graph with SA being the lone exception. Things like pace and the type of offense you run (motion offenses like the spurs) can demand more player movement.
wouldn't stun me. They look like hot garbage, and Paul George has done nothing but fail on and off the court for 3 months. Shooting sub 40%, getting cat fished by gay dudes. Having it uncovered he offered a stripper 1 mil for an abortion
Rough few months for the Pacer. At one point they were up as much as 5 games on Miami in the loss column, now its tied with 2 1/2 weeks left and the Heat have the easier remaining sked by far, and the remaining head to head is in Miami
It's just amazing how good he is. He isn't the 2014 MVP because of voter fatigue, he's the 2014 MVP because he went out there and ripped the award away from LeBron. I can't wait to see if he can rip the title away too.
Hope Davis is ok, that ankle issue has become a bit of a problem with him. Injuries are the only thing that I worry about with him.
I'm still a fan of Paul George and would take him over a lot of higher profile stars with better offensive games, but he is clearly a guy who has handled success poorly. His off court issues are just so stupid. Hopefully he gets his shit together because they'll need him to challenge Miami.
really have been bad - most of their wins have been against awful teams and the haven't even looked good in lots of them. They got absolutely hammered twice this weekend and have the Spurs tomorrow. We all know not to overreact to regular season slumps, but it's getting tougher to do with Indiana now. One thing I'm still pretty sure about is that they're always going to be a tough matchup for Miami.
Good thing about the East is that the middle 4 teams have progressed quite a bit since the beginning of the year and should make for some more entertaining playoff basketball than we would've expected earlier in the season.
no doubt. No matter how much they stumble along, that front court isn't shrinking with each loss. The issues they pose Miami matchup wise are still there.
lead the Beijing Ducks to their 2nd chinese basketball title in 3 years today. They beat a team called Xianjiang in 6 games, clinching on the road
28 pts 6 ast 5 rebs for Steph in the clincher.
They went through Yi Jianlian's (former net) team earlier in the playoffs to advance to the finals. Yi's team finished with the best record and he was going for his 5th chinese championship. If he didn't spend 7 years in America he'd be like chinese basketball's Bill Russell i guess.
Coach Min Lulei paid tribute to his players for their win.
"It was so hard. These kids were so great," Min told reporters after getting emotional.
"I really appreciate my players' efforts. I admire them."
Speaking of veteran Stephon Marbury, Min was to the point.
"Is it necessary to say something to Laoma [Marbury]? He is the best."
The 37-year-old averaged 21.8 points this season, although he skipped most of the regular season due to a knee injury. His choice to play the playoffs without his left knee having fully recovered won a lot of praise from the fans.
"I just want to thank my lord and savior Jesus Christ for getting me through 1 of the toughest years of my career," Marbury said on his Sina Weibo account.
"Winning the championship is great but building character as a team will prepare the future for the next generation to come. The Dynasty is now in motion," he wrote.
who knew that he'd have an easier time assimilating in China than New York. I'll always remember him for eating vaseline on upstream more than anything he's done on the floor.
recently tweeted that DRose was practicing with the second team and looked good. Since the Bulls have been completely secretive about Rose this year, it's hard to tell what this means.
If it means he's actually scrimmaging with the team, then he's likely close to a return. If it means that he's just running a few drills and shooting, then this is a complete non-story.
My guess is that it's a similar deal to last year with Rose, we'll hear rumors about him looking good but he ultimately doesn't play this year. It'd be pretty cool if he was able to return in 2 weeks or so and could get a few games under his belt before the playoffs.
The Pacers are weird because I could see them losing before the ECF Finals to the Bulls or Nets; but I also think they match up so well with Miami that they can definitely win. Going to be a more interesting East playoffs I think than people expected 2 months ago.
over the weekend. Compiled from a couple different sources.
Quote:
"Some selfish dudes in here," Hibbert said. "Some selfish dudes. I'm tired of talking about it. We've been talking about it for a month."
"We play hard, but we've got to move the ball," Hibbert added. "Is it obvious, or what? I don't know whatever our assist ratio, or whatever it is, is in the league, but it probably isn't up there. I'm really trying hard not to spaz out right now, but I don't know. We've been talking about it for a month. I'm not handling the rock. I don't know. I've made suggestions before and we do it for, like, one game, and then we revert back to what we are. I don't know. I'm not the one to answer that question. It directly affects me and the bigs. We're just out there and it makes us look bad."
Quote:
"I don't know what we're going to do," said Paul George, only after raising his head from his hands.
"I'm lost right now," Lance Stephenson muttered under his breath. "I don't know."
"I don't know," David West said, the words struggling to escape from his gravelly voice, "what else we can do."
"I mean, your guess is as good as mine," West said. "Mentally we're just out of it as a group. I don't know. I don't know what I don't know what more we can say."
"I feel like just little things," said Stephenson, taking a stab at what's wrong. "Somebody miss a rebound, somebody miss a shot and we feel like he should've passed it, just messing up the whole individual game the whole time. We're just thinking about (the mistake) and it's showing because the next play we do the opposite thing because we're mad at each other."
none of them are the coach, so i don't really expect much. The other stance is them saying "we need to play better as a unit" etc etc, which is likely what they are thinking anyway.
are pretty rough. There is in-fighting all over that team in recent weeks. Even Larry Bird is chirping from the front office about the head coach needing to maintain better discipline over his players. And the players were upset with the front office over the Danny Granger move because he was beloved there. Throw in mediocrity on the court, Paul George's weird off court headlines in the past couple months, and its been a mess
They're not looking like any lock to meet the Heat in an ECF right now regardless of how well they match up with them
He is just an amazing defensive presence in the paint and I'd still give him the DPOY over Noah. But his offensive shortcomings are pathetic.
11.1 PPG on .457 shooting (.514 TS%)
That is just pathetic and is why he isn't in the discussion for Best Center in the game despite his dominant defense. The oldest solution in the book to an offense in a funk is throwing the ball into your big and letting him go to work. That's simply not an option for the Pacers because Hibbert is such a garbage offensive player.
The Pacers are still a strong #2 in the East because of Homecourt but I could definitely see the Nets take them out. I don't think the Raptors, Bulls, or anyone else would beat them in a 7 game series but I can the Nets pull it off. It's a shame Brook is out because with him around I could even see them give Miami some issues.
won't need surgery and should be back this season.
Enormous news. It keeps the Rockets' season alive. They need his tenacious defense when they go up against the other elite teams in the West who all have strong PGs. Spurs (Parker), Clips (Paul), Thunder (Westbrook), Warriors (Curry), Blazers (Lillard). Even the Suns have Dragic.
The Rockets desperately need Bev's defense. I'm so happy that he doesn't need surgery.
has more potential than people might think in round 2, and thats likely a series we are going to get. James Harden has been a Spurs killer for years, dating back to the 2012 playoffs as a member of the Thunder where he killed them, and hes put up huge numbers on them as a rocket. Houston has also won all 3 games vs the Spurs this year including 2 in SA. I don't put too much stock in regular season head to heads, but the Rockets will be competitive in that series
And lets be real here. Great as the Spurs look, they've been far from trustworthy in the playoffs in the post prime Duncan era aside from last year. And even last year Golden St gave them all they could handle in rd 2 and if they didn't blow multiple 15+ point leads in that series, who knows.....
been bitching about the way Hibbert plays and how he gets away with murder for 2 years now. I hope they actually do start cracking down on the garbage he pulls
if the Heat hold on against the Raptors (up 8 in 3rd) Miami owns the 1 seed for the first time all season (well technically they owned it for about 24 hours on opening night when they were 1-0 and Indy had yet to play)
Lebron hurt his back again tonight though. Staying in the game and is having a big night, but this happens every couple weeks now. Seeing him lie down on the sidelines rather than sitting on the bench ala Larry Bird is becoming all too common a sight
Need the win to keep pace with Atlanta who won today. Fifth game in seven nights for the Knicks I hope they have the legs to play well in the second half.
Greg Oden. How will he play? Will he become a valuable piece in the playoffs with added minutes? Will he stay healthy?
But remember this...
Hibbert -- 26 dunks -- 2227 mins
Oden ----- 20 dunks -- 198 mins
Even after all the stuff he has been through, Oden remains a more explosive athlete than Hibbert. A healthy Oden has so much defensive potential for the Heat. You shouldn't count on it but I really hope we see him do something.
Timofey Mozgov (illness) tied a career-high with 23 points in the Nuggets' 94-92 loss to the Grizzlies on Monday, hitting 9-of-15 shots (5-of-7 FTs) with 10 rebounds and one block in 32 minutes.
Mozgov has been a must-own player for a bit now, though explosions like this aren't necessarily in the cards on most nights. Ty Lawson was quiet with eight points, five boards and six assists, Randy Foye scored 13 points with nine boards, four assists, two steals and a three, and Kenneth Faried posted 17 points, eight boards, three steals and a block in the loss.
Moz is a decent backup center i guess, which is more than i thought hed be when he was here, but thats about what he is. If not for injuries he'd still be in that role
Tell you what though, Miami wouldn't mind having him
Notes: Atlantic division winner will own tiebreak over Chi
Clippers own tibreak over Rockets
Indy likely to hold tiebreak over Miami
Atlanta likely to hold tiebreak over NYK
The Suns, Mavs and Grizzlies all play eachother within the last 5 days of the season, so thats going to sort itself out likely then
I think it's very important for the Nets to get the 3 seed. I've had this feeling that game against Toronto they blew a couple of months ago late was going to come back to bite them.
The 8th placed team in the west would be the 3rd in the East, and likely have even better of a record than 44-30 in the east because the schedule would be easier.
the Heat have a better record against the West than they do the East, and so do the Nets. Which is kind of inexplicable. Maybe for Miami you can make a case that they get bored with the Eastern schedule and get up to play the better teams in the West. But with the Nets thats a head scratcher
The Warriors have 96 points with seven minutes left in the game, with what feels like 50 points in the paint... And they've attempted four free throws. All game.
Now 18-12 against the west and just 22-21 against the east. That east record includes being 3-0 against Miami, so they are 19-21 against the rest of the east. I can't tell if these are good things or bad things haha.
but it wasn't obvious enough to reverse the call i guess
Mavericks get a stop anyway though (actually 2 stops after GS got an offensive rebound). Game is tied with just under 2 sec left, maybe they put more time on maybe not
He is just an amazing defensive presence in the paint and I'd still give him the DPOY over Noah. But his offensive shortcomings are pathetic.
11.1 PPG on .457 shooting (.514 TS%)
That is just pathetic and is why he isn't in the discussion for Best Center in the game despite his dominant defense. The oldest solution in the book to an offense in a funk is throwing the ball into your big and letting him go to work. That's simply not an option for the Pacers because Hibbert is such a garbage offensive player.
The Pacers are still a strong #2 in the East because of Homecourt but I could definitely see the Nets take them out. I don't think the Raptors, Bulls, or anyone else would beat them in a 7 game series but I can the Nets pull it off. It's a shame Brook is out because with him around I could even see them give Miami some issues.
Hibbert is also a pathetic rebounder. With the NBA considering changing the vertical rule, he may very well start to look like one of the worst contracts in the league.
RE: I thought that ball may have been off Klay thompson
but it wasn't obvious enough to reverse the call i guess
Mavericks get a stop anyway though (actually 2 stops after GS got an offensive rebound). Game is tied with just under 2 sec left, maybe they put more time on maybe not
The ball might have been off Klay, but Dirk hacked him so egregiously that it's a wash.
all the teams below them play eachother in the final week and someone has to lose games. Plus the Warriors schedule is generally cream puff after the Spurs game. Its amazing we're even talking about this though, thats how stacked the West is. Some 48+ win team is gonna miss it
If OKC snaps this win streak, add another layer to their ownership of SA since the 2012 playoffs
Maybe, but I would be surprised if the Spurs didn't rest... everyone. They played GS last night, and they played the Warriors at the Warriors' pace. It seemed like they particularly enjoyed reminding the Warriors who the vastly better team is, so they might have something of a letdown against the Thunder.
so the back to back is lessened to some degree. I would be surprised if they sat guys tonight , it would be a buzzkill. Theyve played Duncan on back to backs before during this win streak, id expect him to play tonight especially given how little he played last night
SA is going to get home court and the 1 seed either way, but until they prove otherwise the Thunder own the shit out of them. Couldn't be more fitting than for them to break this 19 game win streak after recently breaking a 20 game spurs win streak by beating them 4 straight in the playoffs a couple years ago. Doesn;t matter how SA is playing entering the game, doesn't matter where the game is, SA has all sorts of problems with OKC for three years running
but do you think the front office wants them to get the 8 seed? They were not supposed to be in this position, they are only here bc the east is abysmal. What purpose is it to get your doors blown off by Miami? Take the lotto pick.
in I don't know how long (speaking relatively here, he never has an actual bad game at this point) and OKC is still up 14 with about 5 minutes left
Westbrook and Tony Parker have had some pretty one sided head to heads of late and tonight is no different. Fantastic two way game by Westbrook, looks as explosive as ever with the steal and reverse dunk to force a Spurs TO.
Durant extends his 25+ point streak to 39 (one shy of Jordan) all be it on a rough shooting night by his standards (11 for 26, but 7 for 13 in the 2nd half)
OKC is the best team in basketball right now. The Westbrook/Durant duo has never looked deadlier. An OKC vs. MIA Finals would be historic with Durant going up against LeBron.
I love how Westbrook was more efficient from the field than Durant while taking less shots than Durant. There was no need for Westbrook to take more shots than Durant, I think he now realizes that after Durant's dominance without him.
I'd absolutely love to see OKC vs. DAL in the 1st round to see a Dirk vs. Durant battle. Two of the best tall offensive players ever. Dirk went through Durant to win a title and I'd love to see Durant repay the favor. He looks to be on a mission this year.
those teams have a budding rivalry right now, 2011 series that went 7 games. Last years series when Memphis knocked them out in 5 without Westbrook. Memphis since Gasol returned has been one of the top 5 teams in the league. I would love to see them match up again. Of course Dallas-OKC have a bit of a playoff history as well. And i wouldn't mind seeing that series either, you really can't go wrong in the West, its awesome.
I think we're headed for another Miami-OKC finals, for what would be the 3rd consecutive season (in my opinion at least)
if Westbrook didn't go down last year. Until proven otherwise the Spurs are OKC's bitch.
That's the series America by and large wants. Thats also the series Miami wants if the alternative is SA. Its just a much better matchup for them, not to say they'd be a lock by any means, but they;d much rather play OKC than SA. Keeps them in their element and they'll be able to play exactly their type of game, styles make fights and thats the one Miami would prefer for sure
OKC doesn't have a post scoring threat to exploit Miami inside where they're weak. They've finally realized how worthless Perkins is in that specific matchup and they've learned to down-size against Miami in the two games this year going smaller, which plays right into Miami's hands because small ball is how they're built to play. Can they beat Miami? Sure. But they;d have to do it playing a game Miami will be very comfortable playing. There is a reason they've owned the Thunder head to head in recent years, even though OKC has certainly taken a step forward. They're going to have to straight up out-talent Miami because they don't have the ability to take the Heat out of a comfort zone.
because Durant looks better than ever. The Heat look vulnerable with their injuries and inconsistencies. Wade is such a huge question mark these days. He is good when healthy but who knows if how healthy he'll be in the playoffs. I agree that OKC doesn't play the best style against the Heat, but they simply look like a better team right now.
against the clips. Led by 14 with 2 1/2 minutes left and now its down to 2, on TNT right now in a timeout
There was a game they blew in LA earlier this year where they similarly had a huge lead with like 2 or 3 minutes left and blew it in ridiculous fashion
Huge win for the Mavs. Dirk with 26 and 11 in the win. He needs 18 points to pass Dominique Wilkins for 11th all time in scoring. He needs 60 points to pass Oscar Robertson for 10th all time. They have 6 games left, he will be a top 10 all time scorer by years end.
D-Wade about to miss his 5th straight game with a hamstring
a complete shitshow in Indiana. The Miami game is now basically a must-win for the Pacers to get the 1 seed. And even if they win it, they're not a lock. Miami might drop a few though. 1 seed aside, falling 30 behind Atlanta at home is a serious problem for their playoff prospects.
Tonight's OKC-PHO game is a big one too. The Suns obviously are scrambling for a playoff spot, but OKC would have a chance of slipping to #3 if they lose. They'd be 2 up on LAC with a game at LAC left and the Clips would win the tiebreak with win.
This is supposed to be a Championship contender? More turnovers than made field goals. Only 1 assist! That has to be an NBA record for lowest assist total in a half. I seriously doubt a team went an entire half with 0 assists.
Sorta bummed KD's streak ended that way, with him sitting out the entire 4th quarter. When it was going to end-which was inevitably-I would have liked to have seen it ended in the flow of a game.
looks like king james isnt aware the hand is part of the ball
especially when the ball is also blocked... wambulance.
bummer on durant sitting the 4th.
to me its a silly streak anyway. is it really a record? did anyone ever know how many games jordan scored 25 in a row? its a made up record. but its a fantastic accomplishment. certainly the MVP this season. cant wait for the playoffs out west
1. the "tantrum" afterwards was nothing more than a reaction to a guy who thought he got fouled. Its nothing more than what an average player does on any given play.
2. It was a good no call, but I could see why Lebron may have wanted a foul. I am trying to look at the overhead replay, and I am not sure how much ball Plumlee got. It almost looks as though he got underneath the ball and gave Lebron a high 5....haha. But it was the right call. Fun ending.
didn't seem normal to me, but I guess people will apologize for everything when it comes to LeBron. It was an absolute no-call and one he would have been just as livid with if it was him doing the blocking and picking up a foul in the process.
Not sure what he saw anyway, the ball went backwards meaning Plumlee got a piece of it.
i thought his reaction was funny. Not sure how i'm belittling him, but alrighty.
And the ball hit the backboard after it was partially hit by Plumlee. No other reason for it to shift in that direction if it wasn't atleast partially blocked. If he only got LeBron's hand that ball would still move towards the basket, which it didn't.
went backwards because of the block shot, now it hit the backboard and thats the reason it went backwards. Tough to keep up.
Again, there was an overhead replay that showed Plumlee definitely got Lebron's hand. The only thing that is tough to see is if he got ball first. It was really close.
his other 3 hit the hand. the ball is part of the ball. the hand is part of the ball. the call was great.
the ending was great given JJ had just jacked the worst shot to allow a fast break, and plumlee should be a ROTY candidate and solidified that last night with the block heard round the world.... lol.
lebron reacted fine on the court, and like a baby in the tunnel.
the heat without wade just look horrible. regardless of record and whatever, the talent level out there is brutal and the offense is so stale.
viewing, the ball was going towards the rim and was deflected sideways, then hitting the backboard. I apologize for saying it went backwards at first. However the main point is that it looks like he got a piece of the ball based on its radical change in direction.
Plumlee said something like "only 3 guys need to think its a foul and they didn't, so that's good enough for me". Not sure if he said anything else post game, but I wouldn't call that admitting anything. I certainly don't expect him to say "it was all ball" or anything. Doesn't seem like the type of player who'd put a target on his back for no reason.
his other 3 hit the hand. the ball is part of the ball. the hand is part of the ball. the call was great.
the ending was great given JJ had just jacked the worst shot to allow a fast break, and plumlee should be a ROTY candidate and solidified that last night with the block heard round the world.... lol.
lebron reacted fine on the court, and like a baby in the tunnel.
the heat without wade just look horrible. regardless of record and whatever, the talent level out there is brutal and the offense is so stale.
Yeah I think you are right. His ring and pinkie look like it got ball. I watched it and slowed it down and it was still tough to determine to my eye. But its still plenty early in the morning. And even if he didnt hit the ball, it's still a good no call IMO.
Brooklyn is hitting its stride and i'd definitely want to play Indy round 2 (for both matchup reasons and watching a slugfest). This scenario would leave a decent chance at an ECF appearance, which is absurd given how the season started.
still has a solid shot at the 1 seed - they're 1 game back and would win the tiebreaker if they beat Miami on Friday (actually they probably win the tiebreaker even if they lose, but they probably wouldn't be tied). Plus the Heat are far from a lock to beat Memphis tonight.
OKC at LAC tonight - if the Clips win, they're 1 back for the 2 seed with the tiebreaker.
looked like a good no-call to me. Every time I watched the replay it looked as if Plumlee got the ball first, jarring it loose and then their hands contacted. Though I didn't see a a replay, it looked like far less of a foul than Plumlee's dunk over Lebron two possessions earlier where it looked like he was absolutely mauled.
yawn! How about the old hard hat and lunch pail Jeff Adrien having a big rebounding night. He's been playing great lately. Fun to see guys like him succeed a bit on this level.
I keep watching it and keep watching it, but I can't figure out for the life of me how the hell he completes that pass. Did it go between a bunch of legs? Did he put some weird English on it?
Right, but it's the angle I don't quite get. It looks like it should go out of bounds at the baseline or hit #34, and yet it does neither of those things.
But regarding the plumlee play everyone is focused on one of of three potential fouls there. There was also a possible foul foul on the floor and another with plumlees offhand. I dont have an issue with swallowing the whistle but lets not get crazy here dismissing the notion that it was a foul.
None of those no calls were as bad as the non call on a plumlee goal tend with about two min left though
Damn laptop is busted and acessing this site by phone is a pain in the ass. Havent been around much of late.
Cant wait for the playoffs though
I was tempted to start a thread entitled "Best starting five consisting of former Knicks still in league?" but a) it seemed to cruel and b) it would be too hard to decide.
In round one. That's gonna be a tough one for GS. Had they won last night they'd have a great shot at facing the Rockets instead, a much better matchup for them given how bad Houston has been defensively lately.
Last night's loss could very well have cost Jackson his job if they wind up getting bounced in round one.
That the five hundredth laker game on national tv this year was more necessary than warriors v blazers. The best thing about the start of the playoffs will be getting the lakers off of tv. Glad I got league pass
Indy locked up the one seed for all intents and purposes today. It is possible that miami now will rest lebron the rest of the reg season. If form holds the two seed will likely get the more favorable round two draw anyway. And there is no lock indy is in the conf final anyway
Miami just needs to get healthy and develop some semblance of cohesion that has been missing all year. They have had like 23 different starting lineups. Wade has been in and out all year. Its all been geared to peaking as spring advances and well see if it pays off
has the tiebreak. 4th seed gets a tougher 1st round series (Brooklyn) but a presumably easier 2nd round series if it wins in the 1st round (Indy instead of Miami).
that's the only silver lining. I would have loved to avoid the Nets and Heat route, but i'll take avoiding just the Heat as a consolation. I think Bulls/Nets goes 7 though with the Nets being favored.
Bogut likely to miss the playoffs (which I see as lasting six games for the Warriors) due to a broken rib.
It's too bad the Dubs crack medical staff was off by four months and counting when estimating Festus Ezeli's return... The depth he'd have provided would have been nice.
Lots of teams could possibly benefit from moving down a slot. The Nets benched half their team and will drop to 6 if they lose and Washington wins, which would give them the Toronto-Miami side, probably better than Chicago-Indy. Memphis and Dallas are playing each other and they'd both be better off losing and finishing 8th.
Chicago is going to lose to Charlotte. They played all their guys because they're the Bulls, but they're probably better off losing, getting the Washington-Indy side.
Most amazingly, Detroit is hanging in with OKC in a game the Thunder need to clinch #2.
I disagree with the Nets here. I'd rather get Chicago and then possibly play Indy in round 2 rather than Toronto and then having to play Miami in Round 2.
Despite Westbrook missing a significant portion of the season. Durant with an incredible year will be a runaway Mvp. and what is their reward? A 50 win Memphis team in rd 1 who is actually better than their record because Gasol was out for a good portion of the year. such is life in the West.
I can't wait for the playoffs to start. the West will be amazing and the east will be better than originally thought months ago.
Toronto and Brooklyn is a very intriguing series. everyone is sleeping on the Raptors for whatever reason all season but they have been tremendous for months now since the Rudy Gay trade. I do worry about the gap in playoff experience between the two teAms. but my initial rough thoughts seem to lean Toronto.
Golden State against the Clippers on paper is one of my favorite Rdone series of all time. Just sucks bogut got hurt
I disagree with the Nets here. I'd rather get Chicago and then possibly play Indy in round 2 rather than Toronto and then having to play Miami in Round 2.
I agree with you. I can see where the Nets are coming from - Toronto is seems worse than Chicago and the Nets have performed much better than the Heat than the Pacers. But they're not beating the Heat. And Toronto is really underrated. Plus, I really dislike Chicago and Indiana, so I'd have preferred to be on that side.
Overall - Congrats to everyone for keeping this thread with Michael Carter-Williams in the 1st post going all season.
but there's some RPS action in among the Top teams.
MIA has owned OKC
SAS has owned MIA
OKC has owned SAS
The Spurs are probably the best bet to take out Miami. But I think OKC overwhelms them in the WCF. And we get the OKC vs. MIA showdown this entire season feels like it has been building to.
Miami has gotten the better of OKC in the past. The Heat are able to play their game against the Thunder. But I just think OKC is the better team right now, especially if Wade is limited.
Jerry, exactly. My take is that if they can't beat the Bulls in round 1, they aren't winning the title anyway. So, I'd rather play them in round 1, then get to play Indy in round 2, who I not only think the Nets can beat, but would beat. Then, try to get Miami in the ECF, where they Miami be more banged up. I don't think Brooklyn can beat Miami in a series regardless, but I don't think it's totally impossible. I guess one issue is that Chicago then Indy would be two really physical series in a row, and could wipe out an aging team. I get the feeling the Nets are indeed quite confident they can beat Miami in a series.
Regarding the odds, I think Miami has to be the favorite still. I'd probably put SAS and OKC about even, and would definitely have LAC over Indy. I think Indy's chances of winning it all are tiny right now.
No question. But even with him, they'd have a very tough time advancing far without dramatically improving in two areas. They need to stop a) turning the ball over, and b) committing so many goddamn fouls (or, some might say, stop being so frequently called for fouls they're not really committing). I'll be right now that you won't see many games this series in which the Warriors shoot more, the same as, or even just slightly less free throws than the Clippers. I'm expecting double-digit disparities there, in most if not all games.
In the playoffs, I just can't see them entering too many fourth quarters with the score close and emerging from that game with a win.
probably totally reliant on the conference disparity. Miami just has an easier road to get there. my suspicions however is that they will be a betting line underdog in the finals against and oklahoma city or san antonio. people tend to forget they were a Vegas underdog against the Thunder 2 years ago
probably totally reliant on the conference disparity. Miami just has an easier road to get there. my suspicions however is that they will be a betting line underdog in the finals against and oklahoma city or san antonio. people tend to forget they were a Vegas underdog against the Thunder 2 years ago
What would you rather see. Heat vs Bulls/Pacers? Homer aside, how can we not want more Noah?
by far is curry vs Paul I cannot wait to see these two guys square off for two weeks.
Yep, that's going to fascinating. Curry has never *not* shown that he can rise his level of play on the biggest stage. I'd say it's certainly among the top factors that might allow them to persevere in round one.
The other is Iguodala. I bet a trend will develop in the next few days to name Harrison Barnes as the X-factor, but I think it'll be Iggy. He's said before in interviews that he's been pacing himself this season and implied that he was actively deciding to lay back offensively just so he could unveil his offense in the playoffs. Here's to hoping that's true.
So pissed the Warriors are banged up. A healthy GSW vs. LAC showdown could've been one of the most interesting 1st round matchups in NBA history. The Clips are now a pretty heavy favorite due to the injuries to the Warriors' frontcourt. Should still be a good series but I'm pretty pissed that GSW isn't 100% heading into these playoffs.
are arguably the 3rd and 4th best players in these playoffs.
If the Clippers lose this series at least one of those guys will have a tarnished reputation. Blake is going to finish 3rd in the MVP vote and has finally emerged as a true superstar. He needs to play like one in the playoffs to really shut his critics up and finish off this FU season.
But CP3 is the guy who has the most to lose. He's the GOAT statistical PG, ahead of even Magic based on the stats. I don't agree with that and think Magic is clearly the GOAT PG but Paul's career resume is pretty damn impressive. But one thing missing is his lack of real playoff success. He has also been outplayed in the playoffs by other PGs before.
If CP3 gets outclassed by young Steph Curry in this series and the Clippers lose the series as a clear favorite, it would have a major impact on CP3's legacy and standing in the league. The word "loser" would start getting thrown around a lot more often. He needs this series.
So pissed the Warriors are banged up. A healthy GSW vs. LAC showdown could've been one of the most interesting 1st round matchups in NBA history. The Clips are now a pretty heavy favorite due to the injuries to the Warriors' frontcourt. Should still be a good series but I'm pretty pissed that GSW isn't 100% heading into these playoffs.
The East is irrelevant until the eastern conference finals...west playoffs are must watch throughout...
With the Clips shooting almost ten more free throws than the Dubs. Expect that trend to continue into the second half and be a big factor behind their win.
People can like whoever they want, but switching teams every couple years is just wrong. Pick one team by the time you're 15 for whatever reason you want to, and stick with it.
See I wish commentators would say this is why Jackson may get fired. He is running his offense through Thompson and O'Neal, going under every ball screen unsuccessfully, and who knows what the hell he is doing fouling a guy with the lead.
Usually do cone due to their offense... Either too many turnovers, not enough free throws, or (commonly) both.
I dont like a single thing Jackson has done. I know Collinson is a pesky defender.... but he is making Curry become strictly a passer and not a playmaker this quarter.
so there's plenty of reason to call the foul there. It happened fast and they called it as soon as it happened. They didn't wait til the ball actually went out to call the foul.
You can't just swallow your whistle on it, what happens if they swallow the whistle then the clippers call for a review and the ball actually went off of Golden State? What do you do then, go back and call the foul?
so there's plenty of reason to call the foul there. It happened fast and they called it as soon as it happened. They didn't wait til the ball actually went out to call the foul.
You can't just swallow your whistle on it, what happens if they swallow the whistle then the clippers call for a review and the ball actually went off of Golden State? What do you do then, go back and call the foul?
Carmelo is bashed constantly for only being out of the first round twice yet Paul has only been out twice and is considered the best Point Guard in the NBA and its never mentioned....
Carmelo is bashed constantly for only being out of the first round twice yet Paul has only been out twice and is considered the best Point Guard in the NBA and its never mentioned....
made up for the garbage we saw at 1230. Nets are going to win that series pretty easily based on what I saw today, they didn't even play well offensively and still won on the road, Raptors suck
Carmelo is bashed constantly for only being out of the first round twice yet Paul has only been out twice and is considered the best Point Guard in the NBA and its never mentioned....
Dont say never. I say it quite often.
I am talking about in the media...Paul is loved and Melo is considered a selfish player and a loser...
fuck the Pacers. They pounded their chests about how good they were and always want to act like tough guys even though not one of them has ever won a damn thing.
Mavs were up 10 in the 4th with like 8 mins left. Spurs don't blink, they go on a run and then win the game. Duncan made a couple of big buckets to get that comeback starter.
Dirk really struggled. 11 pts on 4-14 shooting in this one and he missed every big shot in the 4th quarter. Good news for Dallas is that Dirk played like crap and they still had a very good chance to steal game 1.
Tim Duncan with a 27 point effort in game 1. What a legend.
it should be a high scoring affair and is probably the most evenly matched showdown in the 1st round.
I'm a little scared of Lamarcus Aldridge. Early in the year it was Aldridge who was getting the "Best PF in the NBA" hype. For the first time in years he was getting more attention than Love or Griffin. But as the season went on, Aldridge's MVP love kind of faded and Griffin and Love once again surpassed him in the eyes of the media/public. I think people are sleeping on what he can do.
He is one of only a handful of guys in the playoffs who can easily average 25+ PPG in a playoff series. The series could come down to him vs. Dwight which should be fun to watch.
and i will preface this by saying Noah is a very good center maybe the best in the league but every time he sets a pick he is moving...every single time
RE: I know Dep is about to flip out when i say this
and i will preface this by saying Noah is a very good center maybe the best in the league but every time he sets a pick he is moving...every single time
Majority of players do, cant disagree with you.
RE: RE: I know Dep is about to flip out when i say this
and i will preface this by saying Noah is a very good center maybe the best in the league but every time he sets a pick he is moving...every single time
Guard play was going to kill them eventually, and tonight was a prime example.
Chicago just doesnt have that go to guy down the stretch of games and in the playoffs you need that guy you can dump the ball down to to get a score late in a game...
Guard play was going to kill them eventually, and tonight was a prime example.
Chicago just doesnt have that go to guy down the stretch of games and in the playoffs you need that guy you can dump the ball down to to get a score late in a game...
And as good of a coach as he is, Thibs stubborness may have cost him this game sticking with Augustin who could not do anything offensively or defensively. Dunleavy actually made some shots in the 3rd and didnt sniff the floor in the 4th qhen they couldnt score.
Thibs got outcoached big time this game. Whittman kept his best player off the floor because he had something good working. Thibs just kept putting a square block through a round hole.
Guard play was going to kill them eventually, and tonight was a prime example.
Chicago just doesnt have that go to guy down the stretch of games and in the playoffs you need that guy you can dump the ball down to to get a score late in a game...
And as good of a coach as he is, Thibs stubborness may have cost him this game sticking with Augustin who could not do anything offensively or defensively. Dunleavy actually made some shots in the 3rd and didnt sniff the floor in the 4th qhen they couldnt score.
Thibs got outcoached big time this game. Whittman kept his best player off the floor because he had something good working. Thibs just kept putting a square block through a round hole.
Thibs likes to go defense in the 4th quarter which is fine when Butler is scoring and Gibson is scoring but when your guards are not playing well you need to have a better mix of offense defense..
I am shocked how much Boozer does not play in the 4th quarter...i know he sucks defensively but thats shocking to me.
is going to get the Melo talks increase substantially.
I hope they dont fall in love with Augustin. He was huge this year, and made them more competitive, but to give him any kind of lucrative contract would just be crippling. This team needs Rose to get healthy and another scorer.
is going to get the Melo talks increase substantially.
I hope they dont fall in love with Augustin. He was huge this year, and made them more competitive, but to give him any kind of lucrative contract would just be crippling. This team needs Rose to get healthy and another scorer.
Dont see the Bulls signing Melo....signing Melo means no Mirotic ever..i dont think the Bulls will lock themselves in like that...
With the extra space you can bring in Stephenson and Mirotic...
1. They will package them together to get a few picks higher.
2. Package them together with Mirotic or Gibson to get a top 10 pick.
Thats just eating into more cap space though...
why would you want to strip your team to sign Melo when all you have to do is amnesty Boozer and keep adding to your core and bringing over a young stud in Mirotic and then add Stephenson or someone like that...
Adding Melo basically leaves you with Melo Rose and Noah for the next 5 years..id be surprised if Chicago does that to be honest..
Such a piece of shit season by the Knicks, I haven't followed the Melo situation closely...mostly due to the fact that I kind of thought he was staying no matter what. Now that it seems realistic that he will leave, can anyone let me know if this would be a LA Dwight situation where we'd be letting him leave empty handed, or are we most likely walking away with something no matter what?
Such a piece of shit season by the Knicks, I haven't followed the Melo situation closely...mostly due to the fact that I kind of thought he was staying no matter what. Now that it seems realistic that he will leave, can anyone let me know if this would be a LA Dwight situation where we'd be letting him leave empty handed, or are we most likely walking away with something no matter what?
I honestly dont think Melo is leaving with Phil now running the Knicks...I think before Phil got to New York i thought he it was 50 50...I think he wants to stay with New York and as long as Phil sets up a good plan he is staying..
Obviously the best route for Chicago, starts with a healthy Rose. If he isnt at least an all-star quality player, they probably cant win a title anyways. So lets look if they add Stephenson.
They will have two wing players who are very good defensively, however struggle shooting the ball (something you need in the NBA). Adding Stephenson (35% shooter with 1 three a game) and Butler (28% shooter with 1 three a game) really doesnt help the offense, which is their main problem. Now if they could only add Stephenson, they will be better, but by how much? I am not sure.
And you have to think Rose at best will be a boarderline top 5 PG in the game, at least to start. A guy like Melo would help decrease his role and ease him back into the fast pace game. Also, it may give him some more lanes and less doubles.
I want the Bulls to add as many outside shooters as possibly (that play the 3, not guys like Fredette or Augustin or even Dunleavy).
I just want the Bulls to make a move. If it works, great. If not, then at least they tried. Not trying to be a homer, but a guy like Nik Stauskas could be huge for the Bulls. He's definitely the one I want the Bulls to draft.
But Melo sounded pretty sincere when he was saying that he doesn't know if he could bear another mediocre season. While you want every star to have that mentality, you have to wonder if he'll waste another prime year when everyone in the organization including himself knows that next season is a wash.
Still though, for the chance he DOESN'T stay with NY...would this be like a LA Dwight situation where he just walks away and signs somewhere? Or would it be some form of a sign and trade where we get something in return? An LA Dwight situation would be crippling.
But Melo sounded pretty sincere when he was saying that he doesn't know if he could bear another mediocre season. While you want every star to have that mentality, you have to wonder if he'll waste another prime year when everyone in the organization including himself knows that next season is a wash.
Still though, for the chance he DOESN'T stay with NY...would this be like a LA Dwight situation where he just walks away and signs somewhere? Or would it be some form of a sign and trade where we get something in return? An LA Dwight situation would be crippling.
He also said if Phil can lay out a plan that for the next 5 years the Knicks can compete then he will stay...
Also knicks are the only team that can give him 5 years no other team can....
It depends where he wants to go...say he says he wants to go to the Bullls it may be better for the Bulls to discuss a sign and trade so they dont have to eat Boozer's salary and completely strip their team...
Rockets will need to get rid of a lot to make a run at Melo...
I think a sign and trade is likely unless he signs with the Lakers...
I dont think Melo even knows what he is going to do right now...
I think Melo does want to be in NEw York he forced his way to New York and he wants to retire a Knick but if the Knicks cant show him a future of winning he is going to leave...If the Knicks say they are going to break it down and rebuild then he will leave...
Because I'd bet my left nut he doesn't sign with the Lakers. I don't care who they draft, that's a dogshit team.
I still think Melo stays with us, I just wanted the comfort of knowing we wouldn't be left hanging if he did in fact leave. Haven't been on these NBA threads through most of the year, but watched 80%+ of the games this year and it was a tough watch. I might have to take a fucking Vicodin if I have to watch 80%+ games of a Melo-less Knicks team.
Because I'd bet my left nut he doesn't sign with the Lakers. I don't care who they draft, that's a dogshit team.
I still think Melo stays with us, I just wanted the comfort of knowing we wouldn't be left hanging if he did in fact leave. Haven't been on these NBA threads through most of the year, but watched 80%+ of the games this year and it was a tough watch. I might have to take a fucking Vicodin if I have to watch 80%+ games of a Melo-less Knicks team.
And one more thing dont listen to every rumor you hear about Melo unless it comes from Melo himself...CAA is trying to push Melo out of New York because they lost all of their power in the organization after Phil came in...
I'm pretty certain Melo is honestly unsure of what he wants to do, yet guys like SAS had no problem saying that he's definitely leaving this Knicks team. Just ridiculous...
I'm not worried about the rumors, I'm just a novice when it comes to the NBA capology and logistics and really don't want an LA Dwight situation to unfold here.
By the way, if the Knicks do some fucking #StayMelo billboard bullshit like the Lakers did with Dwight I'll cry myself to sleep. The Knicks have stooped low, but I can atleast hang my hat that we haven't stooped that low.
and gets burned for backdoor layups like 5x a game. It's really, really, embarrassingly bad.
Between his inexcusable defensive laziness and his flopping, foul speaking ways, he's by far the least likable good player game-wise in the league. Add D Howard and his immaturity and Beverly and his cheap shots, and Houston is one of the least likable teams in the league.
RE: I've been tuning out the rumors most of the year
I'm pretty certain Melo is honestly unsure of what he wants to do, yet guys like SAS had no problem saying that he's definitely leaving this Knicks team. Just ridiculous...
I'm not worried about the rumors, I'm just a novice when it comes to the NBA capology and logistics and really don't want an LA Dwight situation to unfold here.
By the way, if the Knicks do some fucking #StayMelo billboard bullshit like the Lakers did with Dwight I'll cry myself to sleep. The Knicks have stooped low, but I can atleast hang my hat that we haven't stooped that low.
The StayMelo stuff is his Nike endorsement that he has a say in when it comes to the commercials....he even uses teh staymelo hashtag on his twitter postings...its weird..
SAS is a mouthpiece for CAA...he is a CAA client..he just says what he is told to say...
I honestly think its Melo putting pressur eon the Knicks...liek Kobe did with the Lakers when he demanded a trade..
I don't get the idea of Melo putting pressure on the Knicks
As though without that pressure they wouldn't want to improve? The Knicks have limited assets with which to improve. Melo pressuring them isn't going to. Are them be able to turn water into wine.
And be able to do real damage in the next FA. If Melo applying pressure means we make glamor moves now to cost our future, that would fucking blow. We actually have a decent plan set in place right now. I get Melo doesn't want to waste a season, but making moves now will waste more than just next season.
Hearing Shaq talk during the halftime show of Rockets Blazers lets you understand the mentality of a truly dominant player. NBA needs a truly dominant brute force player again.
RE: I don't get the idea of Melo putting pressure on the Knicks
As though without that pressure they wouldn't want to improve? The Knicks have limited assets with which to improve. Melo pressuring them isn't going to. Are them be able to turn water into wine.
You could argue that pressure forced the Knicks to go out and get Phil and have Dolan step back and away from the basketball side of the Knicks...
Portland, 1:43 left in OT. Wow, Howard hits 2 FTs. 116-116. Lopez and now Aldridge have fouled out. Beverley with a very heads up play to draw the foul on a moving screen by Aldridge.
but these timeouts at the end of games just destroy the flow of the game. After every made basket or free throw or even a miss it seems like there is a timeout to advance the ball. I hate it, the final minute of these games takes forever and it kills the flow of the game.
And LOL at that foul call on Howard. NBA officiating at its finest
I said the same exact thing last year, and was lambasted by the NBA guys on this site. There are just too many damn timeouts at the end of games. Everyone else proclaimed that it was just a matter of awesome coaching because they saved all of their timeouts.
Sure, I suppose, but it still destroys the flow of the game.
I said the same exact thing last year, and was lambasted by the NBA guys on this site. There are just too many damn timeouts at the end of games. Everyone else proclaimed that it was just a matter of awesome coaching because they saved all of their timeouts.
Sure, I suppose, but it still destroys the flow of the game.
I liked the idea of under 2:00 you get 1 full and 1 twenty second TO.
being able to advance the ball on the timeout - it makes the game more interesting. My suggestion would be that you could use the timeouts to advance the ball, but not actually take the 1 or 2 minute timeout. Maybe inside 2 minutes you're limited to 2 "real" timeouts, and then any additional timeout is just used to instantly advance the ball.
Too bad the best game of the weekend was the late Sunday game - I wish I had stayed up for the 2nd half of that one.
Harden's D really is hilarious. The backdoor in the 1st half was abominable, but the next play was just as bad. He was guarding the screener and didn't even come close to taking a single step to help. Lillard went straight to the hoop uncontested and Beverly ended up yelling at Harden. A better broadcast team would've spent some time on that.
makes games closer than they should be for no other reason than to keep people watching with 1 minute left in the game. It rewards teams who are trailing with more and more chances to get back in the game. Severely diminishes the prior 46/47 minutes.
I don't see why they can't just move to a system where you get 3 timeouts per half, and that's it. If a coach keeps those, so be it, but I think the end of game stuff is a real issue, and the replay stuff makes it even worse. I watched a Mavs-OKC game a month or so ago, and the last minute of the game was literally 12 minutes of actual time.
I do think a timeout here and there can add to the drama, but after every single possession is when it gets to be way too much.
strictly in terms of Defensive impact he was the more valuable player. Both the eye test and advanced statistics Back it up
He had a brutal overall close to the Season and I get the feeling of voters didn't feel right Rewarding him with anything
noAh is the better player and had a better season and it just feels like the voters wanted to recognize that. This doesn't feel like a defense only vote
BC he's backed up by Taj Gibson, one of the leagues best defenders. Hibbert is backed up by far inferior bigs so his on/off court numbers look much better.
Opp fg percentage at the rim vs hibbert is nuts. He is the anchor behind what was a historic defense for most of this season. They funnel everything to him and his rim protection tactics have influenced change throughout the league
He may be the best player among the legit candidates and that always holds weight. I dont think he was as valuable strictly defensively as hibbert though
But one closed the year with all sorts of momentum at his back and the other is a poster boy for a team in free fall
but how often do you see Noah willing to defend outside of the paint? Not sure how to compare, but the gap between him and Hibbert has to be huge in those scenarios.
an awful series against Miami a few years ago, gave him a pass last year due to the fact RW was hurt.
But here's another example of astonishing decisions. You are down 2 and then down 3, why in the world is Kendrick Perkins IN THE GAME ON OFFENSE. Its a guy they dont have to guard. Just mind numbling dumb.
was still a big negative down the stretch of the game, if Collison is in the game they likely win it in regulation. Randolph had an and one on him late and then next possession randolph grabs the offensive rebound that leads to the Miller three
defense by Ibaka. Allen was going to have a tough shot and he leaves his guy just because he wanted to block the shot. They didnt need weakside help there
is just missing with this Thunder team. Durant is awesome but i really dont think they have what it takes to win a title. Not a big fan of the coach, not a big fan of Westbrook.
is just missing with this Thunder team. Durant is awesome but i really dont think they have what it takes to win a title. Not a big fan of the coach, not a big fan of Westbrook.
I think durant would be better off with a pass first Point Guard and a low post scorer...Ibaka is a good shooter but he doesnt have a post up game....
If gasol doesnt miss 23 games this team wins mid 50s just like last year. The west is stacked and this is going to be a war.
Incredible bounceback Somehow winning that game In overtime after a collapse like that in the final 20 sec in regulation. That was a game 6 2013 finals esque series of events. And much like last years spurs the team in those shoes is going to lose that game in ot 90 times out of 100 with that momentum swing against them, especially on the road. Memphis was game though
Awesomely crazy playoffs so far. 6 of 8 series have already seen home court change hands. It would be 7 if dallas didnt blow a late lead
was a serious badass, brass balls win for Memphis. Really impressive all game and then getting off the mat after the miracles in regulation, wow. They had to have that game - I'd love to see them knock of OKC again.
But in the early going, the Clips were scoring a) off turnovers, which the Warriors commit with flair, b) because they were knocking down crazy shots, and c) because the Warriors, as is their custom, were in foul trouble early and often. Klay Thompson got his third foul early and he's currently their second best active defensive player, and not by a wide margin. In fact, second best is arguable.
Grizz are a completely different team with Gasol out there. And this isn't your typical 2-7 matchup. This should be an entertaining series from here on out.
They have gone through playoff wars with them. Took them to 7 a few years ago. Beat them last year w.o Westbrook. In their mind this isnt cinderella. They did what they expected to do getting a split. As everyone knows this is not a common 7 seed. Now they go home where they have been awesome of late. Things can get real interesting
for like 90% of the season. But as Indy imploded and Noah finished the year really strong, I agree with the decision to give him DPOY.
Hibbert's rim protection is the single most valuable defensive skill any player in the NBA provides. No other big or wing defender impacts a game with one particular skill the way Hibbert does at the rim with his size.
But Noah is the much more versatile defender because of his agility. He isn't going to affect shots near the rim the way Hibbert does but he is a pretty solid rim protector himself.
Noah wouldn't be exploited by the Hawks' stretch 5 offense the way Hibbert is. Unbelievable how people are calling for Hibbert to be benched because his defense is hurting the Pacers in this series.
as the refs listen to the whining b%tch casey who got the whistle the entire first half last game but blamed officials for his team choking down the stretch.
Awesome... way to set the tone that whining after game 1 gets you calls
will always look average to his draft class, but he has really gotten this crowd and team going in the 2nd quarter. Also, Thibs not playing Boozer also helps.
in the playoffs is they play balls to the wall all year and win 10 games a year simply because of that. Well in the playoffs everyone plays hard
Thibs hasnt coached well at all this series either. Its been downright brutal. He is telling his players its ok for the Wizards to shoot wide open 15-17 footers all series. Going under screens, laying off bigs. Wizards are just canning every jumper imaginable.
he overplays his players...Bulls players on the court now have been on the court for the entire 4th quarter already and Gibson and Augustin longer than that..
he overplays his players...Bulls players on the court now have been on the court for the entire 4th quarter already and Gibson and Augustin longer than that..
And his offense f'n blows. He is the worst offensive coach in the league. Maybe the greatest coach ever shouldnt have fired his top offensive assistant coach.
Its not even close. They have the same problems every year with Rose or not. It doesnt matter who is on the floor. The guy admits he rarely practice offense.
so it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps getting dusted in the first round of the playoffs by a mediocre Washington team will wake management up to the fact that for years they've relied on scrubs like JLIII, Nate Robinson and DJ Augustin to be their best creators in the absence of Rose.
its the perfect year to keep Miami out of the playoffs and unless Indiana reverses their play the last month +, then we get the Heat in the finals again. Ohh joy.
I'm holding out hope that TOR/BK can atleast push them in that series.
and part of me wants the Bulls to get swept as well
I think we can come back in 7 games or get swept, which is shitty since that's really all we do, hang around and eventually lose because we can't score.
This has nothing to do with what Jordan did 15/20 years ago, and isn't a "boo hoo" comment. When you are on the brink of being a contender and fail to get a scorer or fail to get better at scoring with what you have, its frustrating. Outside of losing Rose, there is no reason to not get better somewhere else on the court to make up for it. Bringing in Belinelli and then Dunleavy doesn't do anything.
This FO seems like its stuck between trying to make a big splash, and sitting tight and hoping it gets lucky.
series isn't over yet. I'm surprised that people who follow the bulls are writing them off.
Nene is absolutely killing Chicago. He's doing a great job of following Noah around far from the rim and it's not allowing Noah to facilitate like he did during the regular season. Augustin is scoring the ball so you can't sit him, but the Wiz are just attacking him constantly. The Bulls could sure use Mirotic, Melo and Rose for this series.
as Nene has been guarding Noah away from the basket, it's given Chicago opportunities on the glass and at the rim. Taj Gibson was killing the Wiz on the glass and with putbacks all night. For Game 3, the Bulls need Noah and Gibson to work a bit closer to the rim, where Nene is vulnerable, and work to get him in foul trouble, It's frustrating that Boozer can't help out since he's rebounding has gotten worse each year and his offensive game is based on mid-range jumpers.
RE: and part of me wants the Bulls to get swept as well
I think we can come back in 7 games or get swept, which is shitty since that's really all we do, hang around and eventually lose because we can't score.
This has nothing to do with what Jordan did 15/20 years ago, and isn't a "boo hoo" comment. When you are on the brink of being a contender and fail to get a scorer or fail to get better at scoring with what you have, its frustrating. Outside of losing Rose, there is no reason to not get better somewhere else on the court to make up for it. Bringing in Belinelli and then Dunleavy doesn't do anything.
This FO seems like its stuck between trying to make a big splash, and sitting tight and hoping it gets lucky.
Bringing in guys like Dunleavy and Belinelli to shoot is a very good thing, but we are asking them to score, which is a bad thing.
Maybe I am in the minority, but Rose playing for Team USA is a great thing. He can ease his way back playing this summer with htem, and come out full throttle next year.
Also, Stauskas has to be on the Bulls mind come pick 16 or 19. Need a shooter desperately.
but being our 2 "big FA splashes" just isn't going to cut it.
I also don't think the series is over. We can easily win any game in Washington. I just can't tell if it would be better to just get swept and light a fire under the FO to make some big improvements.
I still expect the series to go 7.
I've always thought Stevenson is a problem on this team.....
Evan Turner and Lance Stephenson reportedly got into a fistfight during a Pacers' practice on Friday.
"This stuff happens, but the timing wasn't ideal," said one witness to the scuffle. The Pacers were crushed in Game 1 but they bounced back to even the series at 1-1 on Tuesday. Stephenson had seven points, five assists and three turnovers in 25 minutes during Game 2, Turner had three points in 11 minutes off the bench, and Roy Hibbert had another awful game with six points on 1-of-7 shooting. Paul George (27 points) and Luis Scola (20 points) bailed them out, and they'll need a more balanced team effort to keep their momentum in Atlanta on Thursday.
mabe its easiest in the 4 years they have been together. Year 1 wasnt too bad, but who is really going to threaten them. This is probably their worst team out of the 4 years, but easiest path.
The pacers wouldn't be the one seed. They would probably be looking at the 4th or 5th seed. He is one of the league leaders in triple doubles even if his numbers dropped after he found out he didn't make the all-star team.
he won't take us to the next level. I'd rather the Melo route if those are the only two options.
Yeah, I am with you on this one. Stephenson is on par with Butler to me. Lance is probably better offensively, Butler better defensively. Both should be option 5 on a winning team. The problem with the Bulls once Rose returns is that they will start four option 5 guys.
If Washington didnt close this out. When healthy this is a terrific defensive team who will continue to give the bulls mediocre offense all sorts of trouble late in games when they have to buckle down and get stops
Bulls did a decent job reinventing themselves midseason and running their offense through noah more than ever before. But when a team like Washington puts you under that playoff scouting microscope, preparing for only one team for two weeks, that shit aint flying. its painful watching them in the halfcourt when washington is locked in with peak intensity
The wiz are the more talented team, and outside of the young back court have more playoff experience than people think. They have a nice blend of experience and youth with upside. Exciting backcourt. Capable bigs. Wings who can defend and shoot. I think they open a lot of eyes before the spring is over
Shouldnt be surprised though when breaking his nose wasnt even a common foul. All of the superstar call crap is so overdone in the nba. Im convinced officials are so sensitive about the appearance of it that they often go the other way. Teams get away with murder against him at the rim
Shouldnt be surprised though when breaking his nose wasnt even a common foul. All of the superstar call crap is so overdone in the nba. Im convinced officials are so sensitive about the appearance of it that they often go the other way. Teams get away with murder against him at the rim
You've admitted a million times that superstars get the calls in the NBA. You always condone by suggesting that it happens in all sports. Now, because LeBron has a couple go uncalled, it's overblown? Come on Joe. You're better than that. Perhaps his incessant flopping has had an effect on the calls? Not saying that's the answer, but it's difficult to bitch about calls not being made when he flails around like he got shot, with little to no contact, and gets the calls.
anyone who watches miami on a regular basis and believes he gets some unprecedented treatment from officials is out of their mind. This is not just about a couple of calls.
I do believe superior talent gets the benefit of the doubt on some ocassions but the concept over superstar calls in the nba is the most overrated thing in the universe. And this is not just a lebron thing. Its a general star thing
On another note Aldridge is having another insane night
Melo is a perfect example. He gets the worst superstar treatment on the planet. He can't buy a call around the rim half the time. Then on the opposite side, you have guys like James Harden, who you'd swear has revealing pictures of every official in the NBA.
does the dumbest shit on the floor. Gets his 4th on an illegal screen and then somehow complains about it despite it being very obvious. Clueless basketball player that will never reach his potential as a result
LeBron travels and flops all the time and is rarely called for it
to me that a team with a defensive player like Dwight could be so pathetic defensively. When you have an anchor in the middle like him you should never be this poor defensively
"superstar treatment is overblown" when there are video montages of Lebron and Wade flopping around the court getting calls among many other instances of the antics they get away with.
Posted over and over. Guys try to get calls. Guys sell calls. Every team has guys who do. Guys flop in the nfl when it suits them, even fake injury. Catchers frame pitches in baseball. All in the spirit of trying to get an edge. But its only lebron and wade
When by your own admission you didnt even watch much nba bbasketall post ewing until last year. And 90 percent of your bball thread presence is basically to whine about calls melo doesnt get that lebron does
One trick pony officiating beefs. You are mentally 15.
Ive done an awesome job not getting into it with you this season and its best that continues. But I should have known anything other than "the officials are lebrons bitch" are like a bat signal for your only nba related thoughts
I welcome the inevitable pointing out of every call he gets the rest of this postseason. If youll even be watching
than that, Phi. That's crossing a line. Disagree with Joe all you want, but he rarely if ever makes it personal and you went way over the line with the last comment
But a grown up should know better about using that name as an insult because of just how many people would. Seriously dude. Im not perfect and thats a habit ive had to break a while back too. But I shouldnt expect anything less
I haven't said shit to you all season...the one time I make a comment disagreeing with you, you go right down the same road you always do. And I'm mentally 15?
That's fine. If you want to act all tough, go ahead. But dont act like a came after you.
And making homo erotic insinuations is 15 year old shit yes
Its not about you disagreeing with me. Its about the fact that every conversation with you is the same. Lebron gets every call. Refs hate melo. Same shit. Officials cost the knicks the game. Rinse repeat. every single time you and I have ever conversed the topic was one of the above three things. Without fail.
is to go to bat for Melo by making every excuse possible known to mankind. He'd be a poster to take seriously if he didn't act butthurt so often. Either he is 15 like Joe said, or he needs to grow some thicker skin so he can sit at the big boy's table.
He's one of the best players in the NBA and he showed it again this season. I dont get butthurt ever time someone disagrees with me...that's someone else's MO.
I apologize if my comment offended anyone. Momentary lapse in judgement. One of those you immediately wish you could take back.
just such a skilled offensive player. Rockets blowing two games at home was obviously the worst case scenario. Game 3 is the season, I really hope Harden shows up.
James Harden has sucked in the playoffs ever since his dominant series against the Spurs in 2012. Portland is not a great defensive team, the Rockets aren't going to beat the Blazers if Harden is going to shoot .298 from the field which is what he is doing right now. Below 30% from the field... come on man.
Harden is a polarizing player. His pathetic defense and poor playoff performances are two big knocks on him. Dwight is also polarizing. The Rockets are just a weird team to root for with those two. But bottomline those two are getting outplayed by the Lillard/Aldridge duo. The series isn't over but it can be after Game 3. Enormous game in the careers of James Harden and Dwight Howard.
went right over my head. I was at the gym this morning and it showed the NBA schedule so it was fresh in my head. Must have been for ESPN's Friday coverage, haha.
In any case, i'm sticking with tie as a possibility for tomorrow.
I get the sentiment. But I actually like it. You get to watch more of each series when its stretched out and not packed with 4 games every night, the way it is now you rarely have to choose between two games competing at once. And when you do its only for a half
First venue changes of the playoffs. Three underdogs trying to hold onto newly acquired home court
Winner of game 3 when series is tied at 1 wins 77 percent of all best of 7s in history. I wouldnt make too much of that. But I think its essential that the lower seeds win at home tonight if they're going to pull an upset though. Much more important for gs.atl.mem tonight
Needs to be expanded next year. The officials looked at the play but still couldnt do anything because of the system. Hawks deserved this win though regardless.
The cp3 play in gm 1 and the teague shot are likely going to force a tweak in replay
if there's ever been anything like this Indiana situation. Every other 1-8 upset there's been a good reason - Rose getting hurt, Memphis being good and being a nightmare matchup for SA, GSW playing out of their mind, etc.
It's not like Atlanta is some secretly good team. They're really mediocre. No major injuries for Indiana. Is it going to come out that the whole Pacers team is banging each others moms?
Charlotte has got to be seriously pissed at Miami for not grabbing that 1 seed.
I agree with barkley in that kd needs to be able to develop his postgame to exploit some of these smaller matchups like allen. Its the missing piece to making him the perfect scoring threat. He is still getting his though for the most part in this series. Hes incredible. But we sometimes forget hes still shy of his prime. No reason he shouldnt dominate in the high post one day ala dirk.the
I love Westbrook, but man his shooting form is brutal. He seriously needs to slow down his release because he basically is flicking the ball at the basket at this point.
again from Memphis to stabilize and really control OTs in both games after the miracle comebacks.
As loaded as OKC is, their complete lack of offensive scheme and teamwork really makes things hard on them. If anybody can succeed with their 1-on-1, ultra-stagnant half-court style, it's them. But it killed them last year without Westbrook and it killed them for most of the game today whenever they couldn't run.
I agree a million percent. Scott brooks did a nice job getting the program off the ground. But to take the next step they need a guy with an offensive mind north of mike brown, when star power alone cant carry the day against elite playoff defenses. And someone to get through to westbrook before some of these bad habits are irreversible.
Really miss that shooting wing 6th man presence that has been available to them in past playoffs in the form of harden and martin. All they have to show for the trade now is steven adams.
which is why a great defense like Memphis can take them out of their flow. Offensive diversity is the key to beating great defenses. It's why the Spurs offense is so fun to watch and hard to stop when everything is working right.
They really lack a player with a good low post game. Durant is improving and took some pages out of Melo's book this year, but he's not some great back to the basket force.
I still think OKC should pull this one out but really impressive stuff from Memphis.
But its not like this is stunning in any way shape or form. The west is that stacked. They deserve heat if they bow out this early. But I almost cant really kill them for it
This series does in some ways make me revise my opinion from last year a bit if form holds. I am among the many who believed Westbrooks injury was the only thing keeping okc from a final last year. But maybe they never get past memphis either way. This just looks like a rough matchup
Blake Griffin has 76 pts in 70 min played so far in this series. He is destroying them when hes on the floor. Foul trouble game one and blowout game two have held down his minutes.
For the leg kick on the three a possession or two earlier? Officials let them play late. Thats the case in all sports. You could have called a foul there. But most times in that spot it wont be. see cp3 in game one
Thats why last possession leaguewide fg percentage is so crappy. Defenses get away with a bit more
Officials didn't decide that game. And after gm one golden st has no officiating beefs
Is going to rethink his 4th quarter lineups tonight. Gibson let it leak with the media. Youd have to think theyll have more offense on the floor
Im rooting for the wizards to win the series. But above all I just want a good series. Hopefully Chicago pumps some life into the series tonight
Also interested to see how derozan responds tonight. He was terrible in the first 7 quarters of the series but came alive late in game 2. If he can build on that and get back to his post rudy gay trade form, raps can take this. Their size is going to give the nets trouble all series. Valencunas (sp?) is a problem for them the way they play small
For the leg kick on the three a possession or two earlier? Officials let them play late. Thats the case in all sports. You could have called a foul there. But most times in that spot it wont be. see cp3 in game one
Thats why last possession leaguewide fg percentage is so crappy. Defenses get away with a bit more
Officials didn't decide that game. And after gm one golden st has no officiating beefs
Joe, when the contact results in a guy airballing a three, you have to call it. You can't let that go. Steph Curry is not coming up 2 feet short if he isnt fouled
With them blowing the whistle there. But the warriors spent exactly zero seconds of that 2nd half with a lead. They got outplayed. They also by and large got the benefit of the whistle in coming back in the 4th. You cant boil a game of over a hundred combined possessions down to one non call and act like the officials cost gs the game. Its not always about the refs. Both teams got what they deserved
And why is there no talk of curry extending the arm to create space literally less than one second earlier than the contact that everyone is upset about. Wasnt the most powerful disgard of paul but nor was the contact on curry. Its tough to get a call in that spot. Thats just the way it is. Clips know about that from gm 1
when Griffin lowered his shoulder was a tougher call than the non call. I am a firm believer if the offensive player lowers his shoulder, regardless of the position of the defender, it should be an offensive foul.
But lets worry about more important things.... like, Jimmy Fredette getting some PT tonight so theres a Bull can actually shoot the ball!
An enormous game in the career of James Harden. His reputation is on the line tonight. Another bad game and a loss and he won't hear the end of it all off-season. Most important game of his Rockets career thus far. I'm praying he brings it tonight.
And can somebody please shut Aldridge down tonight? The Rockets are making him look like a Hall of Famer. Dwight needs to be the best big in the game tonight.
Huge game. Not feeling too confident but I'm hopeful. Steal game 3 and you're still alive.
which is astonishingly not to me in that 2nd quarter. he had two players who were dead gassed in Gibson and Augustin, and he left them in in the final 3-4 minutes and they combined to go 0-4 and couldnt defend anyone. While Dunleavy who had 16 points sat there resting for no reason.
Thibs runs these players until they are to the point of puking. If you cant tell your team is strugglign because your players are tired, then you need to wake the fuck up.
were better off with that foul being called. Fields also made an awful play, he had no chance to save it, just let it go and take your chances that it went off of Brooklyn
Im kinda stunned by the trouble Dallas has given sa thus far. Especially with dirk not playing at the level he did to close the year. Up 2-1 and blew a ten point lead in the 4th in their only loss. Of course there are no pushovers in the west, but this is way more surprising than Memphis giving okc a fight
Maybe it shouldnt be though because sa in the playoffs aside from last year have been massively disappointing post 2007. Im not writing them off by any stretch but this could be their 2nd loss to an 8 seed in 4 years. Of course no one will bother to take the spurs to task for it because sa exists in this weird place where everyone has amnesia about every pitfall theyve hit in this era, with mouth firmly planted on their ass. This could be like the 8th series they lost with home court in the duncan/pop era.
I feel so good for vince right now. But monta ellis was the key. He was awesome. Weve seen him take the playoffs by storm as an 8 seed before in his coming out party with the 07 warriors. Now in a bigger role he has a shot to do it again
The league needs to do something about the length of replay. The end of the hawks game was a joke.
Watching okc gm 4 right now a little behind you guys on tivo. Havent read through to avoid spoilers
Reggie Jackson is dueling with KD and Westbrook on how will be the worst player for the Thunder tonight.
Astonishing how pathetic KD has been. He deserves every bit of criticism after this performance. I am sorry, but as league MVP, you cannot be this bad at this time of the year.
Memphis has the game in regulation and blows it to force ot. They dodge bullets doing this the last two games but they got burned tonight. Up 5 late you have to close. Allowed way too many offensive boards late in this game. Left a ton of points at the line. And couldnt control reggie jackson
This was such a weird experience watching this game. Season on the line and okc is running their offense through Reggie Jackson every trip down floor. Even a few isos.
Durant was pathetic and dodged a major bullet tonight. Toney allen and the Memphis d in general is renting space in his head. For that reason alone it doesnt feel like okc can exhale yet even after the huge season saving win. If he cant get on track they are still in major trouble.
After shitting away games for the Knicks, Beno Udrih brought his unique, whining qualities to Memphis in time for a devastating loss.
Really interesting series in that both teams have proven capable of neutralizing the others' strengths... Westbrook/Durant have struggled and Z-Bo/Gasol have as well.
It goes without saying that he's a jackass and needs to go. Weve long known he was a bigoted douche and now there is audio proof
But that was one confusing and off the wall tape. espn just played the whole call and not only does sterling come off as a racist, but an incredibly bizarre one too, doesnt care if she fucks black guys. Just dont take instagram pics or be seen at games with them. Oh and btw the girl is black which adds another weird layer
That after last night LeBron has more 30-10-5 playoff games than anyone in history. Amazing at age 29
Big game in Washington to kick off the day. Im not a fan of the nene suspension, but I saw it coming and I cant cry for nene for putting himself in that position. Its just an Immature moment by a guy who is supposed to be a veteran leader on that team that will now impact 2 games.
not only did he headbutt, but grabbing of the neck too? Probably would have been a 2-3 game during regular season, but since he did 2 things that are borderline suspension worthy, I think they were forced to give him a game.
Asst coaches: Thibs this startign group has sucked all series, get DJ and Taj in there.
Thibs: No!!!! (loses voice). I will sub at the same rate every game.
Players: Thibs, what can we run on offense?
Thibs: What's this offense we speak of? Here's what we are going to do. Give Noah at high post, run a wheel play off of him. Take a 20-22 foot contested jumped with less than 5 seconds left in shot clock. Then lets play defense! Yay!
big have some foul trouble early. With Nene being out, Noah and Gibson need to go hard to the rim and hit the glass hard. It's a matchup edge that they'll need to exploit today.
And gortat in foul trouble, these wiz bigs are a disaster waiting to happen. Bulls right back in this game since he had to go to the bench. Even off the great start you can see some troubling early signs for the wizards
He has always been a very good playoff performer in his career and is having a great series. One of the better three and d role players out there. He was terrific in that 09 laker title run shooting 48 percent from three in the playoffs on high volume.
Just a dominant night. Bulls look toast. But the 4th win is the toughest. Bulls just need to extend it in game 5 (I think they will) and put pressure on the wiz to close athome in game 6
Beal and Wall, starting next year, are the best backcourt in the NBA
Beals upside is still massive, and he doesn't turn 21 until June. Curry is a better shooter then Wall clearly, but Wall is also 3 years younger then Curry.
So much going on there that its tough to get a read on the cause. Is this the clips now dealing with the burden of this weird sterling fiasco? Or do we go more pro golden st and credit the smart lineup switch and steph curry in god mode. Or is this typical nba playoffs where urgency is paramount and the warriors have more of it today down a game
Its still very early. But if I was a clip fan id be worried about this response on the heels of this controversy
Has worked wonders. Clips got back in it a bit when gs went to their bench and went conventional with jermaine oneal back on the floor. But as soon as gs went back to small ball they blew it open again.
on both ends they just lost control the minute they tipped off.
NO IDEA why KG is coming out here. plumlee has been awful all series.
terrible feeling about this game
never really questioned Kidd all season. Thought he was wrongfully blamed early on in the year... But this Plumlee obsession is completely screwing the team right now. He literally looks like he has no clue where to go on offense or defense right now. Completely messing with all spacing.
This one is going to be on him unless he wakes up.
still probably win the series, but its probably going to 7 and with an older team and the Heat waiting you want to get rid of a mediocre Raptors team quickly.
Its 2-2 but competitive doesnt always equal appealing. The quality of play has been pretty poor. Hopefully it picks up over the next couple games because the stage is set for a memorable finish. Some people may get board with Miami's destruction of Charlotte, and I get it. But for my money this has been the roughest round one series on the eyes as any
Weve had 5 game 4s in 2-1 series and the team in the more desperate spot is 4-1 in those games. Could be 5-1 with a houston win. This is the weekend of disaster dodging wins save Chicago. Hope dallas bucks it tomorrow and puts sa in a bind
did that ref call it off of Howard when it didnt even come close to going off of him? Jesus NBA officials blow, he was standing 2 feet away, he can't see it?
because the NBA won't put a game on ESPN and a game on TNT at the same time.
I suppose that's the reason, since the network obviously wants to win in the Monday night nielsen ratings.
it would be nice if TNT sister network TBS would air some nba games then. ive seen TBS play some baseball games in the past. but unfortunately that's never been done in the nba before so that's impossible
Used to have playoff games all the time back in the 90s, maybe even into the early 2000s. in the early 90s they used to show several local hawk games too when Dominique was there
Used to have playoff games all the time back in the 90s, maybe even into the early 2000s. in the early 90s they used to show several local hawk games too when Dominique was there
Mavs cut the lead to 12
sorry for my ignorance there, I just assumed. maybe it stopped when the nba went back to abc and the new tv deals at the time. hopefully in the new network contracts coming up no playoff games will be played on nba tv but that might be wishful thinking on my part and you certainly don't want more days being spread out between games
To create demand for wider coverage. As of now its only in a little over half of households. They always stash their likely lowest audience game of the night there in the playoffs though
Regarding intent on the blair play. From my perspective, as soon as I saw the replay I had no doubt that the he would be t'd at minimum after the review and likely tossed. I guess you never really know his intent for sure but it didnt look good. Its a shame because he was great for them on both ends of the floor.
The spurs were very beatable tonight. Thats just a killer loss after fighting back from 20 down and getting a lead. Mavs were awful for much of this game and still had their chances.
DeJuan Blair really shit the bed with that flagrant.
I don't have any words to describe the collapse that's occurred with the Pacers. It was funny seeing how hyped up the Pacers fans got when the Atlanta lead went from 30 to 18.
That atmosphere was crazy. And this one guy who must have been sitting two feet from ian eagle and steve smith (because it was coming through so clearly on the telecast) was going at paul george and other pacers incessantly. You could hear every word of his taunts.
Even when the pacers were free falling over the last couple months, at least they were still defending home court consistently. But even thats gone now losing three at home to the hawks this month
Roy hibbert is so lost right now in so many facets and is utterly useless in this series. He has made kendrick perkins look like hakeem olajuwon offensively in comparison of late. What a tale of two postseasons. Last year guy was killing it, especially against the miami front court
What possible explanation could their be for the hibbert thing.
what has happened to Indiana. They're going to go down in history as one of the most fraudulent playoff contenders in recent NBA history.
- they took Miami to 7 games last year
- 18-2 record through first 20 games
- 33-8 record through first 41 games
- Through 1st half of season, George Top 7 MVP candidate and Hibbert runaway DPOY
- 23-18 record through last 41 games
- 10-10 record through last 20 games
- George and Hibbert simply choke and start stinking it up, you really thought Lance would save them?
They were looking like a major threat to Miami at the midway point of this season. George was an emerging star and I had him in the Top 5 of the MVP race at the 41 game mark of the season. Hibbert's rim protection was dominating games and he was the halfway DPOY.
Really embarrassing season from them. 56 wins in a weak East but this team had so much more potential and they flashed it earlier in the season. They're still alive at 3-2 and maybe they man up and win this, but that's the only way they can salvage this season.
Continue to see the upward trend the nba has been seeing in recent years. The audience for game 4 clips was virtually identical to the red sox pennant clinching game 6 last year. They are outperforming hockey on average by about 7x the average audience
basically why they are in this funk. You can blame it on the tension between Turner/Stephenson or Paul George tapering off from earlier in the year, but Hibbert has been downright putrid.
He's scored 24 points in 4 games, with only 17 rebounds and 3 blocks. he hasn't had a 20 point game in over a month, and only 4 games of 20+ since February 1st.
He's literally a black whole on both ends of the court, i've never seen anything like it from 1 playoffs to the next.
He's kind of having last season in reverse except early last season, when he sucked, he still wasn't even THIS bad.
I can't remember the last time I saw a dude flip from borderline dominant to useless back and forth like this. It's weird as hell. And he only played what.. like 12 minutes last night? 0 points and 0 rebounds? I don't get it.
in the world, but I dont think Thibs has what it take to be a championship winning coach. He has made absolutely ZERO adjustments this series, and refuses to switch things up or START his best team.
its the same shit different game. Play Boozer to start the game and the half and go down 10 early. Now Wizards going off to start the 3rd. I realize the Bulls wont win this series and have very little offensive talent. But when you continue to do the same thing game in and game out without success.... it just shows you are stubborn and unwilling to change.
Thibs is getting schooled this series in every sense of the word. Boozer is something like a -30 this series with playing half a game. But he starts every game and every 2nd half. Just pathetic coaching.
Played in the okc-mem series yet early on. Durant got off fast against prince but as soon as toney allen checked in he has since quieted. Prince gave memphis an unexpected offensive lift in that 1st quarter though knocking down j's the defense was ceding to him
I can't get on Thibs. He's not an offensive mind but we don't have 1 player that would even be the second scoring option on most contending teams, and probably only 1 or 2 guys who'd be third options.
Great defense, awful offense, slightly above average team.
crowd was completely dead tonight too. I went to a lot of Bulls games when I lived near Chicago, and I was never impressed by the crowds. NY/MSG crowds are a lot better.
Durant finding some rhythm early 2nd half just like he did to start the game when allen was on the bench. Its like night and day when hes being guarded by allen rather than prince or lee
because I think them and SA can give Miami a series. But the wya everyone is playing out west coupled with the fact Miami will cruise into the finals - there might not be much excitememnt in the finals.
What I would love to see, and it pains me to say this, but I think OKC needs to trade Westbrook. And as a Bulls fan, if it means trading Noah - I would be all for it. Jackson can fill in to start. They could trade Adams, Westbrook for Noah and Mirotic.
and Rose wouldn't fit together at all so I'm not sure why the Bulls would want to do that
Gives them another scorer. Would become the most explosive backcourt immediately (of course pending Rose's health). Bulls have absolutely no guard play thats worth bring back (slide Butler to the 3 for defensive reasons).
The Bulls need changes. And they need people who could score. As much as I love Noah, they need people who can put the ball in the hoop.
Memphis has struggled all series putting away games in regulation from a commanding position. theyre just prone to these scoring droughts that are killer.
With three left in the half, but as long as LA is committing more fouls than the Warriors, I like GS's chances. They seldom lose when they foul less than their opponent. I think they were 2-0 in such games this season.
When youre a damn near 90%shooter at the line. I love kd. He deserves the mvp. He has potential for the goat pure scorer skillset. But hes having an awful series. And its not just the bad shooting from the field, from three and uncharacteristically at the line. Its also the way hes allowed himself to be denied the ball for long stretches when allen is n him. People get on russ for shooting too much, but kd has done a lot of hiding in the corner frustrated by allen fighting through every off ball screen. He has gotten down on himself and ceded to Reggie jackson in season swinging moments let alone wesrbrook. Allen is giving up over half a foot and durant isnt complete enough yet to exploit him in the post
He is gonna take heat if they lose this series and deservedly so. The fresh face stage of his career is over. Now comes the expectations for a guy on his level. Hes the mvp. He has been to a final. r.I.p. the gravy phase
Hes a loss away from a long summer. But lets also not lose sight of the fact that his best ball is likely ahead of him. And if he is the player we think he is, he may even benefit in the long term from the oft unfair grindhouse that guys of his ilk get put through at this stage in their career. It has motivated and sprungboard many careers before to greater heights. See mj in the early 90s, shaq at the turn of the century. Lebron of late. its not stretching much to put durant at least in the same paragraph as those guys as pure talents, if not the same sentence. And theyve all walked the same path he is one loss from embarking on. Here is where public opinion shifts and pressure mounts.
That is just pathetic. OKC isn't smoke and mirrors. Their bench isn't great. Their head coach isn't great. They don't have a versatile offensive style. Their entire livelihood depends on Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook shooting jumpers and attacking the rim. Ibaka is a great 3rd piece for them and they have other valuable pieces including Jackson. But this team lives and dies with Durant and Westbrook.
Kevin Durant is showing that he is a mortal. Tony Allen's strength/quickness combo is bothering the hell out of Durant. It's not just Allen though, Durant's shot is just off. But part of the reason is because Allen is making him work.
And Russell Westbrook is one of the most confusingly gifted players I've ever seen. 30/10/13 playoff game including some clutch defense, yet he also was 10-31 from the field with 4 turnovers.
31 FGA, 13 Ast, 4 TOV
That's a ridiculous amount of possessions for the PG of the team. 10-31 is simply an unacceptable total for the PG of a team. Point guards who shoot and miss that much lead to stagnant offenses. Westbrook is an unbelievable player who is in the Top 10 mix and looks Top 5 at times. But he really needs to dial it down.
Huge games here for the Durant/Westbrook duo. Memphis is one tough team and they have been great, but I'm really interested in seeing how OKC reacts to this.
And Joey Crawford sucks. I can't blame him for Durant missing but it's just such a stupid thing for him to do in that spot. He is such a douche.
Even in the nba which is the most predictable of leagues
Rewind to late spring 2012 as the thunder were rolling through san Antonio..... they looked like a franchise that would be impossible to keep out of the finals for the forseeable future. Just loaded and on the come up. Even entered that finals vs miami as a betting line favorite.
Even post harden trade theyve remained the favorites out west. Last year at least the Westbrook injury was a valid excuse. This year to bow out in rd 1 would be a disaster. And given the matchup problems Memphis causes okc, we have to revisit the general consensus that okc goes to the finals last year if westbrook is healthy.
I had my reservations about this okc team early on after the loss of martin. But still picked them to make the finals by the time the playoffs rolled around. And if they get through this series they still might. This is just a rough matchup. But its stunning to see where this team is two years later at this very moment after the possibilities seemed endless during the 2012 wcf
Just like Westbrook, a really weird floor game from Curry tonight. Chris Paul deserves a ton of credit but Curry needs to play better and be more aggressive with his shot.
But clips-memphis for the third straight year is looking likely. The rubber match. Memphis has quietly built a ton of rivalries out west in the past few years.
I gained some respect for Doc based on the way he handled this. Not every coach in the same situation would've handled it as well. I doubt Marc Jackson would've been able to do what Doc did.
Wins series 86% of the time. Of course those numbers dont necessarily signal a death sentence. I actually would have thought the comeback odds were a little better than 14%. Miami has come back from those long odds in both of their title runs.
Jackson really rode Curry, Klay, and a.i. into the ground tonight.
making 3 out of 4 should not have stopped the hacking. As Osi said, if you're going to go to it, don't stop because he made a few. He's going to miss more than he makes if you keep doing it
The Warriors started hacking down 7, never got closer than 6, and stopped completely when the lead went up to 9. The problem was the Warriors only scored twice over the 2 minutes.
1. Does Brooks get canned? I think this is a no brainer. I really dont think he is that good of a coach.
2. Does OKC look to trade Westbrook. OKC looked to be a better team without RW.
3. How the hell do they get rid of Perkins?
Crawford is pathetic. How do you take the ball away from the shooter? He is extremely unprofessional, holds grudges and loves making calls in big spots to make the game about himself.
KD needs to make that anyway, it's a free throw, but I hope someone has a long talk with Crawford.
I think Westbrook gets put on the trade block...they could get a couple of good pieces for him and they would have Jackson as their starting Point Guard who stepped in nicely for him when he was out and won game 4 for them....
The team would then be strictly Durants and he would be taking the most shots and the offense would be run through him not the other way around...
like I said above. But I think it's unfair to blame Westbrook when Durant is clearly getting psyched out by Tony Allen.
KD is coming off of the best scoring season since prime MJ (although Kobe has an argument). He just had an epic regular season where he was the hands down MVP in a league that includes peak LeBron James.
He needs to play better. 28 PPG in this series for Durant, but it has come at a very inefficient clip. This is a guy who always threatens the 50/40/90 mark with his shooting, yet he is shooting at a 40/30/70 mark in this series!
I think one weakness for Durant is his strength, and it is a clear problem for him against Tony Allen who is not only stronger than Durant but quicker than him to. Durant is also just missing shots as his 71% FT shooting shows.
The 2014 regular season was the Kevin Durant show. But he is turning into Tony Allen's bitch at the worst time. Enormous finish to this series for Durant. He doesn't want to go out like Dirk did in his MVP season.
he needs to get a post game..its ridiculous he is being covered by Tony Allen...for one of the best scorers in the game its bad he doesnt have a post game...for as good as he is he still has a lot to work on and thats kind of crazy to think about..
There is no reason that he shouldnt be able to post up Allen with height and arm length he should be over to post up and shoot right over the top of him...
Its Why some consider Melo a more well rounded scorer and a better offensive game than Durant...Melo can post up, Shoot the 3, shoot the mid range, drive by his opponent and get to the line..
has not impressed me since his return. He is erratic, makes stupid decisions and tends to shoot more when he is off than when he is on. Reminds me of JR Smith in a number of ways, obviously, with superior talent & work ethic.
But there is a lot I do not like about his game right now. And decision-making is a huge part of it.
when you trade him to an over the cap team...no over the cap team can sign him so there is no value with Mirotic...
so really it is noah and couple of 1sts for westbrook...Mirotic has no value to the thunder
I would have assumed OKC would trade Perkins too. If they traded both Westbrook/perkins.... they are only at like 43 million next year. They can afford Mirotic pretty easily I thought.
Mook,
I was told Wade/James couldnt work together. I know both are ball dominate, but they are also great players. Sometimes they can just work it out. And I do believe they are real close off the court.
Bird had his fair share of stinkers. Dennis Rodman ate Bird's lunch in the late 80s when they faced off.
But the difference with Bird was that his impact was spread out. If he didn't score, he'd go out and grab 12+ boards and 8+ assists.
Durant's impact is tied heavily towards his scoring. He's an all-time great scorer but when his scoring game is off he loses a ton of his value.
Bird could score 16 points and still be the best player on the floor
LeBron could score 16 points and still be the best player on the floor
Durant can't
the other 50% I despise. He's be a terrible fit with Rose and I don't see any way we do that. It would be making a move just to make a move, and I can pretty much guarantee it wouldn't work.
We need to do something, but we've also been waiting for Mirotic, might as well see what that he's got unless we can package him to upgrade at a position other than Guard (assuming Rose comes back).
RE: I enjoy watching 50% of Westbrook's overall game
the other 50% I despise. He's be a terrible fit with Rose and I don't see any way we do that. It would be making a move just to make a move, and I can pretty much guarantee it wouldn't work.
We need to do something, but we've also been waiting for Mirotic, might as well see what that he's got unless we can package him to upgrade at a position other than Guard (assuming Rose comes back).
I wouldn't mind an upgrade at SG. Butler will be fine as a SF. bulls just needssomeone who can score, period.
a great shooting guard would be awesome, but I don't expect any being available that would be worth trading Noah/Mirotic for. Our front court would be miserable with just Gibson and pieces.
Is still not the most ideal fit. They make it work because the hierarchy has been established and they arent stepping on eachothers toes as much. But their offense frequently flows way better with wade off the floor and a floor spacing shooter in his place. Wade actually had a negative on/off rating this year during the season. And not to make too much of small samples, but charlotte actually outscored Miami in round one when wade was on the court. They went plus 41 with him off
All these numbers still wouldnt lead me to say theyre better without him. But it has never been an ideal fit
Thibs could make Westbrook the best on the ball defender in the NBA.
The bulls have to do something big I think. And big is not Lance Stephenson. Big offseason for the Bulls. The reason of trading Noah is because hsi value will never be higher.
I guess it had to be done to get the double header they wanted. Otherwise youd be starting the rocket game a little late locally if you go 8 and 1030 eastern.
collapse by Toronto. They were up like 24 late in the 3rd and its now tied.
Perhaps it just seems this way and actually isnt, but it seems like a ton of big leads are erased in the 2nd half of NBA playoff games. Not just this year, either. The trailing team doesn't always win, but it seems like teams down 15-20 make a run and get either tied or within a bucket quite often
3 of these Raptors Nets games but whoever gets through this series in my opinion is in for a beating from the Heat. Don't care about the Nets record against Heat this year, the Bulls a few years ago had their number and lost 4-1 in the playoffs, and Wade looks relatively healthy now
in a close series, this has been very low quality. Especially when you watch the other teams play, I don't think anyone in the east outside Miami is any good
I feel bad for JJ because he's actually a special offensive player. He's just surrounded by some absolutely horrible teammates who can't convert on his getting double and triple teamed.
I've read in some places people trying to talk up Otto Porter's
future. Can anyone recall a current good player who did as little as Porter did his rookie season (excluding foreigners and the "HS to the Pros" guys)?
Just looking at the box scores... Paul Pierce was -31 in just 24 minutes. Yikes.
fan, i had visions of 02 in san francisco and 10 vs philly dancing in my head when the 26 point lead was erased. thankfully they pulled out the win in crunch time, but they became way too unfocused and undisciplined in the last quarter. interesting that garnett and pierce were benched for what seemed like most of the fourth quarter.
It wasn't necessarily surprising because weve all talked about this dynamic with the okc offense and the ball getting sticky with a lack of movement. But its striking to see in raw numbers.
Through 5 games of tracking data, memphis has like 510 more passes than okc in this series. Thats over 100 a game. Last game it was 150. thats insane
as contenders unless Durant goes nuts. Westbrook is just too erratic and too boneheaded to rely on. I'd be shocked if he's not traded, unless they make the finals.
And fire brooks. Recent health flags aside, shot selection is his only glaring weakness. Hes a 24 year old electric talent with two way value that just needs to be reigned in. You can also nitpick a bit with his perimeter shot, but I think he shoots it better than the percentages suggest. Aforementioned shot selection drags his numbers down, if he played more within the structure of an offense people would see that. He may not be the most natural pg, but has made strides as a facilitator, and the pace he creates with his blinding speed facilitates offense off the stat sheet
They shouldnt make any sweeping changes outside of the coach. This is still an incredibly young group even though its easy to forget it because they arrived on the contender scene ahead of schedule
Fuck paul george and his catfish shit. Fuck david west looking like an extra in michael jacksons beat it video with that pad on his hand. Fuck frank vogel who looks like the grown up version of dan gilberts lottery mascot son. Fuck lance stephenson who is the leader odds wise of the entire nba to do something stupid leading to an artest esque suspension one day. Fuck roy hibbert and his verticality.
Fuck the whole team for that backstreet boys esque photo shoot which was hilarious
Kd is still 25. Has already been to a final and has generally been a terrific playoff performer. The headline almost carries with it a hint of "here we go again", and thats really unfair
But when you are potentially top 10 all time great from a skill standpoint, and reach a certain age with bare fingers, people will latch on to small samples or character traits and extrapolate a larger narrative from them to explain the lack of hardware. So all offseason kevin durant is going to get put through the media spin cycle and get crushed. The fresh face stage of his career is over. R.I.p. to those times
The narrative will flip and things once seen as positive character traits will now be looked at in a different light. His humbleness will be seen as soft, and a bunch of other nonsense to explain why he doesnt have it in him and other first take level banter
Every great who wasnt fortunate enough to be born into an awesome situation early on goes through this at some point. And its not unhealthy. Weve seen it elevate already great talents to another level. This spin cycle helped elevate lebron post 2011. He was already the best player in the league but was humbled/motivated by it all and found another gear. and hes far from the only one, just the most recent
I'd like to see them bounce back as well. They are the only team that has a shot a preventing another Heat finals appearance. That's a big question mark right now unless they get a fire lit somewhere.
RE: Does anyone really want to see the Hawks in the next round?
How would you guys rank the Grizzles players in terms of value to that team? I think I'd put Gasol at #1. But Conley is one of my favorite players in the league, Allen is the best perimeter defender in the league, and Z-Bo is their money scorer in a big spot. Very well balanced team at the top.
Not comparing the two spots or players but early on the has a lebron gm 6 vs boston 2012 to it. Down 3-2, season on the line. And the best player on the floor imposing his will with an aggressive start
And i share the same feelings about the Pacers that Mook does....Biggest Fugazi team i have ever seen....they act like their this big bad tough defensive team and all they do is flop all over the place and David West literally whines about every single call against him...i cant stand the Pacers...
If its Pacers vs Miami in the ECF i am rooting for Miami..
Minutes from the 6th 8 seed upset and this would be by far the most pathetic in history. dont deny me a shot to watch these demoralizing post game pressers from this chesty bunch of fake tough guys
But im hearing talk on nba tv of paul george being subject to a possible game 7 suspension for leaving the bench during an altercation
If he did the precedent has been set. If you dont suspend him you are doing a disservice to the 97 knicks and 07 suns. I dont like it either but as long as its a rule you have to apply it
and it wasn't even his A game. Westbrook with 25/9/5 with 3 steals. This was an enormous game in the "Big 2" era and they both stepped up. OKC also got some really quality minutes from Reggie Jackson and Steven Adams.
I hope Conley is 100% good to go for Game 7. I said Gasol was my pick for Grizz team MVP just a couple of posts ago, but Conley is right up there. Their perimeter play without Conley simply isn't good enough for a WC playoff team. He came back and played in this one but he was limping.
Is gonna be real interesting. The more I read and hear everyone is making it sound like he was clearly off the bench during a scuffle
It may be weak sauce but you have to drop the hammer. Do it for amare. Do it for patrick ewing and the rest of those 97 knicks. Most of all do it because I hate them
the fact that Silver is the new Commish. Might not mean anything but I do think it makes it less likely that George will be suspended because of what happened to the Knicks and Suns when Stern was commish.
But the rule is still on the books and it is very clear cut. We'll see. Either rewrite the rule or you have to put him down. I dont think they have a choice
I dont know if the rule has been rewritten since 07
But it currently states that a player must remain "in the immediate vicinity" of the bench. Paul george took a couple steps onto the floor but didnt wander very far. I guess if you wanted to you could say he was still in the immediate vicinity. But ewing and amare werent far onto the floor either. I dont know if those guys were subject to the same wording or if it has been modified.
That was a horrific call on JJ Reddick, despite what Reggie thinks.
I doubt theyll suspend him. He did step onto the floor but you could definitely argue he was still in the immediate vicinity of the bench. Really depends on how they want to interpret " immediate vicinity"
if Stern were still Commish, George would be suspended. He put his foot down on this issue and wouldn't have waivered. However, Silver can interpret the rule how he wants especially since the wording "viscinity" is in there.
To me, the rule should be more about involvement in the scuffle, even just breaking it up. Who cares if a guy takes 2 steps on the floor if he doesn't get involved?
but a player on the left of the bench had his foot hit the 3 point line during the scuffle, Paul George was further back, barely touching the court. A suspension would be laughable.
it would just be a new interpretation and precedence. Everyone wants PG suspended since hating the Pacers is so popular, but that doesn't warrant a suspension in my book, regardless of past suspensions. If the rule is loosely written and includes "vicinity", then you can make the argument that he didn't do anything wrong.
Move the benches back and make it a cut and dry rule about stepping on the court. Standing up basically puts you on the court anyway.
but with any and everyone calling it ridiculous, it IS possible to set a new precedence and rule. If what everyone is saying is the case, then I guess the rule should never change...
or being that the rule hasn't been changed, they can stay consistent with how they ruled in the past and then change the rule in the offseason? I really don't think anyone should get suspended and I sure wouldn't cause an uproar if nobody did, I'm just butthurt still from 97.
and the points for an against are valid. Its clear that it needs to be changed though and I guess i'm hoping it takes a game 7, best player on 1 team scenario to get rid of it. That and I really don't want Atlanta in the next round which would guarantee me not watching any of their games.
Uconn i dont think anyone is arguing its a stupid rule
Stern show leniency or at least flexibility to this rule a few years ago and not suspend Duncan.
After reading the article, I realize that it happened in the same Series Amare was suspended in for the same offense. Unbelievable Link - ( New Window )
not feeling too confident in this one because of all the Game 7s already set to go. Gotta figure that only one or two of the 3 teams facing elimination tonight survive. Rockets are the only one of those teams on the road.
James Harden, this is you buddy. Step up and save the season. Rough series for the beard but he carried the team down the stretch in Game 5. Hopefully that was the confidence boost he needed.
for the pacers.
do i root for them? no...
but do they bother me like some on here??? hell no.
they are a flawed team with no true PG and thus struggle offensively at times.
but they have young talent that is enjoyable to watch evolve.
anger over hibbert and verticality is just whining... all in all the pacers have done nothing but give you 2 great series against miami which were must see TV... and now offer soome drama in their inability to beat the hawks and the swift fall from what was league best status.
I hope they win, becuase it makes the playoffs better.
the pacers have done nothing to become grudge worthy
for the pacers.
do i root for them? no...
but do they bother me like some on here??? hell no.
they are a flawed team with no true PG and thus struggle offensively at times.
but they have young talent that is enjoyable to watch evolve.
anger over hibbert and verticality is just whining... all in all the pacers have done nothing but give you 2 great series against miami which were must see TV... and now offer soome drama in their inability to beat the hawks and the swift fall from what was league best status.
I hope they win, becuase it makes the playoffs better.
the pacers have done nothing to become grudge worthy
Me personnaly i cant stand their fake tough guy act and how they criticize teams for flopping when their 7'2 center is on the ground every 2 seconds...
PLus i cant stand the different rules Hibbert gets to play by with the verticality thing...its BS he always puts his hands over the offensive player which is a foul every time and yet its not called..
Plus i hate Reggie MIller i respect him but i hate him for all the shit in the 90's...i will always hate the pacers...
verticality doesn't bother me nearly as much as his constant flopping and always on the ground. He's 7' and what, 300 pounds? Stay on your damn feet.
George is just a a weirdo, Stephenson is impossible to root for, their coach is an asshole, David West is an asshole, they pounded their chests all year about how great they were when they didnt win a fucking thing in their lives, not one of them. Fuck them
stephenson is a 2nd round pick who was coddled since 7th grade who has evolved into a fantastic 2 way player.
George has evolved into a top 10 player on both sides EVEN with his fall in the 2nd half of the year.
West whines a lot but every team has guys like that.
"fake tough guys". how are they fake tough guys? statistically til the end of this year they were fanstastic defensively for 3 yrs... and they stood in miami's face twice... being tough.
so again... its fine if you dont like them, but its all strange to me.
the league is full of whiners and flopprs on every team... of guys that get too many calls, ect.
its like there is one legit 7 foot defensive player and they dont call the game soft and now Hibbert "gets every call"- last year.
Stephenson is anything but a great offensive player
is always a funny one to me. How exactly do you gauge that?
Plenty of players bitch about calls, including the King himself, even moreso from his sidekick. West definitely bitches a lot, and I get why that bothers people, but there are tons of examples across the league.
is a legit tough guy, there's nothing fake there. I get that Hibbert is a flopper and nobody likes to see guys flop, especially 7 footers, but I have no reason to hate those guys other than the fact that they are in the same division as the Knicks. There is nothing to dislike about them. It's not like they have guys like Paul "The Truth" Pierce or Kevin "I'll fight the PG, you take the big guy" Garnett.
is always a funny one to me. How exactly do you gauge that?
Plenty of players bitch about calls, including the King himself, even moreso from his sidekick. West definitely bitches a lot, and I get why that bothers people, but there are tons of examples across the league.
Every time I see Indiana play... whenever west, George, Stephenson, king others make a nice play they act like they hit the game winning shot I'm game 7 of the finals. They are arrogant, babies, and childish rolled up into 1. If they lose this series, I would seriously laugh my ass off. But if they win, I think they would do just fine against washington believe it or not.
ive passed up round 1 tickets because round 2 would be Nets Miami.... and i wanted to save my bullets for great seats to watch Lebron and co.... and it looks like each time i have been wrong and thus have not seen a playoff game in barclays yet!!!
I think game 7 in toronto would be an awesome scene and these 2 teams are starting to really hate eachother, so hopefully it goes 7.
I see Nets actually getting better next year as Lopez returns. its a total wild card but if he is there this series isnt close.
thing is complete horseshit. He jumps into guys and has tons of plays that get called fouls for everyone else in the league. But he's got the verticality brand and sometimes keeps his arms straight in the air so they let it go.
I just can't stand watching that team. They shut down interesting plays on the back of a giant with fouling privileges. Their offense is disjointed at best. Their D is good and it would be even without the verticality BS. I just don't like them.
I see the Nets similar to the Knicks last year. Their best shot is in year 1 and it will get progressively worse each year. I don't envision a knicks style collapse from them, but then again I didn't see the KNicks season shaking out like this either.
Lowe has great insights but (and this is a very minor nitpick) his word choices are ridiculous. If I see him use the word "snug" one more time to describe a pick and roll I'll vomit. But yeah, he's a damn good analyst.
Frank Vogel's receding hairline drives me crazy. It never changes. How does a hairline recede and then just stop like that? Pisses me off every time I watch that team.
And I know I need to get over it. But this just re opens 17 year old wounds. Not proud of it but I was happy to see amare get suspended in 07 precisely because misery loves company. I was hoping for more of the same today. But once I saw the actual replay i knew they had the wiggle room to not suspend him
The randolph thing and now conleys hammy kills that game 7
ever seen a 7 game series like this Nets one is going to be that was just flat out boring and for the most part poorly played? Besides the last 3 minutes of game 5 the series has been a complete snoozefest
I think it's partly just the way the nets play. They are a boring team. Basketball is my favorite sport by a longshot and this team still manages to bore me to tears at times. It's always a slow grind.
ever seen a 7 game series like this Nets one is going to be that was just flat out boring and for the most part poorly played? Besides the last 3 minutes of game 5 the series has been a complete snoozefest
But 7 games!
I think its a mistake to measure the caliber of play by how long series go. There's a lot of bad basketball being played this postseason.
ever seen a 7 game series like this Nets one is going to be that was just flat out boring and for the most part poorly played? Besides the last 3 minutes of game 5 the series has been a complete snoozefest
But 7 games!
I think its a mistake to measure the caliber of play by how long series go. There's a lot of bad basketball being played this postseason.
Not really. This has been one of the best 1st round games in a long time. Every series in the west is must watched. The east series have been ehhhh, but at least an 8 seed has done things to make the 1 seed look bad. Charlotte played a few good games as well, just came up short.
between the Spurs' and the Mavs' free throw attempts is... well, a typical Spurs game.
When you have 0 inside game, its tough to rack up fouls. Mavs are a jump shooting team. Only Ellis has the ability to get to the basket and draw fouls.
They wouldn't be so incredibly rare. Happens more than twice as often in the nhl. And you could count the finals game 7s of the past quarter century on one hand
This year is an aberration. But it was as predictable as the sun rising that we would hear this talk. God forbid the lakers win the lotto too.
To call this upcoming 4th quarter the biggest quarter in dwight and hardens career to date? May sound silly when both have played in a finals. But this is a different stage oc thdir career, back when they were players of potential rather than players of expectation. And in hardens case he has more ownership of this team than okc
defense from both Parsons and Howard. Howard doesn't need to worry about the inbounder throwing it back, he needs to give some help on Lillard as soon as the ball is thrown in
Incredible first playoff series for lillard capped by that dagger
I almost feel for dwight. He was amazing in that 4th quarter and had a very good series, but all anyone will remember is a first round ouster. This was 6 games of incredible fun.
And even though this series failed to deliver one, it was probably my favorite one to watch.
No one has elevated their national rep and profile over the past two weeks any more than lillard and Aldridge. Amazing series for both. Everyone already knew how good they were but when you stamp it with a playoff series like they had in victory, you look at them a bit differently now. Lillard is starting to separate himself perception wise from the crowd of amazing young pg talent. And aldridge has cemented himself as very arguably a top 5-7 player. Id have had him 4th in the mvp voting even before his awesome series
Step 1: Trade for Raymond Felton
Step 2: Watch as team naturally disintegrates and coach is fired midseason with Felton as starting PG
Step 3: Use ensuing lottery pick on Damian Lillard
Step 4: Trade Raymond Felton to the Knicks
Seriously though, that the was best end of game I've seen in quite some time. I feel for Dwight Howard and Jeremy Lin. Howard was mostly excellent down the stretch (minus 2 HUGE missed FTs) and Lin made a big shot despite a horrible shooting game (shot was disallowed).
Which is about exactly 80%. You do the math, history says one road team wins this weekend. If you had to pick a most likely, who would it be?
I kind of get the feeling indiana is going to win and probably play their best game of the series. Theyve found something in this matching by finally going small when they were down 30 in game 5. But I dont say that with any confidence because indiana doesn't deserve it. Also atlanta could have another one of those nights where they just go nuts from downtown. They have 5 shooters on the floor at almost all times, theyve been jacking up a ton of them in this series and if they get hot theyve shown they can blow indy out on that floor let alone beat them
Memphis winning in their current condition would stun anyone. To a lesser degree the same could be said of dallas but theyve been in every game late in this series and blew a double digit 4th quarter lead in one of them, otherwise dallas may have been playing to close out sa tonight. Dirk is getting his legs under him in these last ccouple games, blair is back and is giving sa trouble. I want so badly to see dirk go off sunday and win a road game 7 at san Antonio for the 2nd time in his career
clips-warriors and raptors-nets kind of have a tossup feeling to them. I would lean more heavily with the clips if paul wasnt banged up
atleast the Rockets didn't go out like pussies after getting down 3-1. This was an incredibly tight series that the Rockets could've won had a couple of plays gone the other way. Even though it only went 6, it's truly one of the most evenly matched series I've ever seen.
Lillard has already built up a well earned clutch reputation, the kid is money with the game on the line. That shot was just crushing.
54 wins for the Rockets but a 1st round exit. So the season should technically be considered a failure. The team had Championship expectations with Dwight/Harden. But the season also wasn't a flat out disaster, there were a lot of good signs this year for the Rockets. 54 wins in Year 1 of the Dwight/Harden duo isn't bad. The Rockets probably have a 3 year window here with those 2 so hopefully they advance further the next couple of years.
The Rockets need better PG play. Lin is ideally a 6th man type scorer off the bench and Beverly doesn't have enough offense to play legit starter's minutes. The Rockets really need an upgrade at PG and I hope they find a way to get it. Until they do they won't advance much further than they did this year.
3 or 4 buzzer beaters this year. But theres quite a difference between those random anecdotal displays of clutchness and going out and being borderline dominant over a full series in his first trip to the postseason.
(Rounded off) 26 pts 7 ast 6 rebs a night on a true shooting % of 67%. Walk off series winner which tied an nba record for 3s made in a 6 game series. This was crazy impressive. Over the last decade thats probably on the mount rushmore of playoff series debuts
Has played his best ball in months in these playoffs. Thats one leak on the pacer ship that has been at least temporarily plugged. Washington-indy will be real interesting
What a garbage game. And im not expecting much from memphis. I almost want them to start the clips-warriors game now. Game 7s seem to disappoint more often than not
the replay of the Randolph "punch" that got him suspended for this game.
After hearing he was suspended for a punch, I was waiting to see an actual punch. He never even punched him, how did they suspend him in a game 7 for that? Jeez
From the regular live action angle its tough to see, but I saw a closeup in slow mo where you definitely see him going closed fist arm extended into adams face. It kinda looked more like a shove. But I could see how a shove with a closed fist at the end of it that connected to adams face can be construed as a punch
had a ton of big rebounds tonight. He looked great on the glass and in the fast break as usual. If he can limit turnovers they can go back to being legit contenders.
really wanted Clippers to lose, sick of hearing about how they had to heal and all this other bullshit as if someone died or someone got physically injured. If they cared about Sterling being a racist they would have paid attention to the countless other examples of him being one before last weekend and not signed with them and cashed his paychecks every 2 weeks. F them. The people I feel bad for as a result of Sterling being a racist are the poor people who he refused to rent basic housing to because they were black. Not millionaires who ignored that he was a racist and now all of a sudden are up in arms about it because he said he didnt want magic johnson at his games.
But still pretty nuts. Deandre jordan the first player ever to have 4 games wit 18+ rebs and 4+ blks in a playoff series. Im sure russell or wilt did it but they didnt track blocks back then
They let 2 BAD free throw shooters scores 4 times at the rim late in the game. David Lee's season ends with at least 2 fouls in his pocket that he could've given. There were also too many late possessions when Steph didn't touch the ball.
TNT post-game is infinitely better with Shaq "taking the night off".
Doesn't actually compare to the Warriors being down their starting center, losing two assistants in a month, and dealing with rumors of their coach being fired throughout the season and the playoffs.
I don't know that Jackson is a great coach but I definitely believe the Warriors would replace him with a worse one.
realize every NBA fan thinks Brooklyn is a joke, so I'll get little sympathy. But the amount of crying the Raptors do to the refs is obscene. Vasquez and Lowry are all world floppers and complainers. They have NEVER committed a foul.
a few in the past 4 minutes or so that were 50/50 that went Brooklyn's way. Prior to that it was even. During the same stretch Amir Johnson was blatantly moving on a screen that wasn't called.
The Raps have non-stop complained to the referees all series. I've never seen any collection of players complain more than this Raptors team over a playoff series. It's absurd. Vasquez is going to get T'd up again if he doesn't chill out.
withstood a Toronto surge there. Look relatively strong right now. Expect this to tighten up in the 4th, but Nets are in a much better spot than last year, that's for sure.
Frustration getting to the Raptors now. No idea how this team was a 3 seed this year, they play out of control, turn the ball over at a crazy rate, and I just don't see a ton of talent. I see some athletic players but thats it. Didnt get to see them much at all during the year but man does the East blow.
Nets have played under control, made the extra pass, and just played a smart game. Toronto wants to play 1 on 1, always playing a step fast, dribbling balls off of their foot, and now losing their cool
after a game, get fined...and then get the benefit of the calls.
Crazy.
And KG deserved the T. Typical KG bullshit. Put his arms in the air like he's not doing anything wrong while chestbumping a smaller player out of the way. He does it all the time.
the ball never really even got in the air so impossible to tell. Patrick Patterson also did a great job playing defense for the Nets there bumping into Lowry. It was a nice block but the ball never really got to a spot where you could tell if it was going in
was literally standing wide open the entire time and Lowry just put his head down as he did all game and never even pay attention to others that were open. You can't do that
but I wouldn't even put Deron on the floor at the end of games offensively. I'd put Livingston at point over him when its crunch time and free throws need to be made
The Nets have some of the most clutch players in the league. And they also have one of the biggest chokers playing point guard. Maybe getting bailed out by Jj and Pierce here gets the monkey off his back. It's our only hope.
We are going to hear a lot about the 4 zip head to head in the coming days. But it was literally 4 possessions away from being 4-0 the other way. Now that we are out of the randomness of the 82 game season and both teams locked in solely on eachother with equal rest between games and playoff motivation, I think miami should make relatively quick work of them. Despite the head to head record I think this is actually a great matchup for the heat.
Youre not going to beat miami playing small ball like the nets do. Thats their game. No team in this era or arguably any other is beating this team with a natural 4 at the 5 and a natural 3 at the 4. Anyone without effective size basically negates the heats single biggest weakness. They cant capitalize on miami's vulnerabilty to getting eviscerated on the glass, because they themselves are well below average there
I think miami rolls through this in anti climatic fashion. im not saying consistent blowouts or anything but I expect the heat to win without much sweat.
I actually am excited to see all four series. Think each is an interesting matchup in their own way. With BRK/MIA the possible exception, I think we could see them all go 6-7 games.
1. Garnett knocked the ball loose from Lowry, which caused Patterson to come in and try and pick it up and which drew Pierce into the lane.
2. Terrence Ross was standing in the wrong place, he should have rotated to the corner to ensure the spacing was adequate/get an open shot.
Lowry was the heart and soul of this team since the raptors dealt rudy gay. Very tough loss as a raptors fan, but the nets were the better/more experienced team and if valanciunas and ross continue to develop and the raps can keep lowry, i like the base of the team moving forward.
the whining and flopping is that of a child. if he would get past that, he would be one of my favorite guys in the league.
plays balls out, plays d... hits open 3s.
the type of guy you love on your team and hate as an opponent.
Every shot they make but him sulking in the corner is not the right move.
Also I know it's tough to rip a coach who has gotten his team to the playoffs as a top seed every year and 1 finals appearance. But I would really like to see brooks canned
His lineups are so shitty at times and his loyalty to certain people at times are so frustrating
what the hell happened to Roy Hibbert? I haven't been in tune with this basketball season, but I just caught the game tonight and he was awful! It seems like he has been playing like the for a while?
I should also elaborate why I think he is a bad coach
I think Durant and Westbrook are the reason they are consistently a top seed in playoffs. I think you could switch brooks with tons of coaches and still be a top 3 seed in west
have one of the best D's in the league and certainly a top 2 or even top 1 D in the West. Facing the Thunder after the Warriors has got to be a big relief for the Clips.
And now everything is opening up for the clips. Deandre jordan catching lobs in the paint after the clips were largely perimeter oriented in that first half
Nets at Heat and Blazers at Spurs take a back seat to the NFL Draft, this site especially with the Giants picking number 12 and that being such a crucial pick.
amazing how bad Dwill played for half of the raptors series. he was awful regular season vs. the heat. it simply cannot happen against the Heat if they are too have a shot.
other keys
Mirza + thornton 3 pts shooting
KG being involved in the offense.
Livingston staying out of foul trouble defensively.
Lets go Nets!
Paul George slept with Hibbert woman and thats what has Hibbert all in a funk. And thats the reason why Stepehnson and Turner got into a fight in the locker room because Stephenson blamed Hibbert for the Pacers funk and said he hasnt been the same since Paul f'd his b***ch.
And deservedly so, but john wall has been pretty underwhelming. Its been more about the bigs and ariza/beal this entire run. This is the first time ive seen wall play 7 times consecutively rather than just a couple odd times a month. Watching him night in night out I am way more impressed by his defense than his offense at this stage in his career.
Hibbert was awesome tonight and the big mental midget was cheesing after every bucket like even he couldnt believe it. If this springboards him the whole dynamic with that team changes
Agree 100%. There were like 4 possessions in a row where they had the ball down 3 and kept going for the tie. They were getting stops, they had their chances
Cant wait to see how okc responds tonight. Kevin durant opens 2 for 2.
there is so much talent on the floor in this series
They have no one who can even come close to bothering durant. Okc may or may not win the series, but durant is gonna put up huge numbers either way. he will be so much more comfortable than in the memphis series
the big 2 came to play but "the others" for OKC have to step up. Reggie Jackson is clearly the 4th most important player on that team now. He needs to provide a scoring boost in the 2nd half.
how is it possible that Brooks runs out lineups that don't include either RW or KD in the fucking playoffs? The hell is wrong with that guy!!! I could have sworn he rolled out a Collison-Adams-Butler-Fisher-Jackson lineup tonight. Like, is he kidding? Not even Ibaka? The fuck!!?!??!
Elite players as Paul. He used to get owned by D Williams, Rose dominated him a few times, Westbrook is taking him to the woodshed... He just gets owned by the other great PGs.
some of the Nets-Heat game tonight and never saw Deron Williams do anything. After the game I checked the box score, sure enough 0 for 9 and 0 points.
I know a big reason is because its the Nets, but this is a guy who many in the media said was better than Carmelo and some said the Nets were better off making the deal with Utah than Denver. How does he not get just destroyed in the media after playing like that?
Deron is simply not the same player he was in Utah. And maybe because it's the difference between playing in Utah vs. the NY metro area. But he's terribly inconsistent, had a problem with his ankles, and is simply not a gamer in the playoffs. I would say he's closer to Kerry Collins vs. the Ravens than Eli Manning vs. the Patriots. In the playoffs, you need players that can rise above themselves and deliver. Not only does Williams not do that, sometimes he actually seems to shrink back onto himself.
Sucks, because I don't think he has any trade value with that contract, leading the Nets to just sit on him for a few more years. But I hope he enjoys his money now, because he'll never be worth a max contract again.
I know Joe Johnson has got the monster contract, but at least he's bringing it.
It's gotta be time to start talking about Deron's trade/contract
some of the Nets-Heat game tonight and never saw Deron Williams do anything. After the game I checked the box score, sure enough 0 for 9 and 0 points.
I know a big reason is because its the Nets, but this is a guy who many in the media said was better than Carmelo and some said the Nets were better off making the deal with Utah than Denver. How does he not get just destroyed in the media after playing like that?
Guy is a fuckin loser.
How does Deron not get destroyed in the media? Easy...he doesn't play for the Knicks. The National media looks for reasons to destroy the Knicks...and when they cant find one then they completely make shit up. But everyone is full of excuses for the Nets.
some of the Nets-Heat game tonight and never saw Deron Williams do anything. After the game I checked the box score, sure enough 0 for 9 and 0 points.
I know a big reason is because its the Nets, but this is a guy who many in the media said was better than Carmelo and some said the Nets were better off making the deal with Utah than Denver. How does he not get just destroyed in the media after playing like that?
Guy is a fuckin loser.
How does Deron not get destroyed in the media? Easy...he doesn't play for the Knicks. The National media looks for reasons to destroy the Knicks...and when they cant find one then they completely make shit up. But everyone is full of excuses for the Nets.
Um, wrong. He doesn't get destroyed because nobody cares about the Nets. It's almost like they aren't even in the playoffs right now, I never hear a peep about them and they are in the 2nd round!
PS-plenty of people on bbi said that Deron was better than Melo, plenty.
On another note dwade is bitching about his knee again. Going to be another postseason of him laboring through at well below 100%. Even after they bend over backwards with the most optimal conditions possible to avoid another situation like this. Not playing him on back to backs. Only played about 50 games. Limiting his minutes when he does play. Norris cole logged more total minutes this year than wade. They have barely played in the playoffs he just had over a week off. Three playoffs in a row now hes playing hurt.
Theres no way you can trust him anymore. Miami will be dumb to give him some legacy extension and lebron would be just as shortsighted to sign up for more of the same, its only gonna get worse. He hasnt had the player he signed up to play with since their first year together.
When your commentary centers around the injustice of melo vs. deron criticism along with a popularity contest for teams in thre area, of which no net fan of any aptitude cares about
Conversation on sworn should be focused on his gutless play and where the fuck his basketball iq went after a fantastic run of years. Is it all injuries? Did he lose the passion? Was it sloane's system? He sucks right now
How that relates to a player or team that couldn't qualify for ge eastern conference playoffs, I have no idea..... But somehow you guys manage to do it.
The nets inherited a wrist injury that happened weeks before the trade, kinda flew under the radar and later needed surgery. It was on his shooting hand and there was a long stretch there where it totally effected his shot. Tons of ankle injuries have robbed him of explosion. I think he misses sloan too, the nets have handed him a chaotic coaching situation. Not to make excuses for him but Avery johnsons offense was a joke. Kidd has asked him to play a very different way. When carlisemo was coach and he was fairly healthy he had a huge post all star break last year
I think its pretty well established at this point that he is no longer an elite pg. Once was, that ship has sailed and is never coming back to dock. Both by his own decline and the rise of a ton of young talent at the position. Last night was inexcusable. But I dont know who was expecting a monster playoff run from him this year
Strung together a couple good games in a row now and 3 of 4 dating back to the hawks game 7. No longer looking like a trainwreck physically and mentally.
Im gonna say it again. John wall is having a brutal playoffs. The wiz have exceeded expectations and he is the face of the team, so few have taken notice of the fact that he has been pretty awful. Instead I have to hear doris burke telling me he hasnt blinked this postseason, credit by association. He was better tonight than in game 2, but thats not saying a ton. 7 turnovers, wiz offense looking like a trainwreck even when they win in these playoffs. He came into tonight shooting 32% this postseason. It has been horrifying watching him offensively in these playoffs
but how in the world does Kevin Durant think he didn't foul him? You fucked up, it doesn't help you with officials when you complain after a call like that. It was obvious
Approached russell westbrook with the same degree of ferver when hes playing on this level as they do everytime he has a bad game. He has been incredible over the last 5 to 6 games. Virtually averaging a triple double and scoring in the high 20s on good efficiency. His "A" game is very arguably the third highest player ceiling in the league. He is one of the most electric talents the league has really ever seen but is never celebrated as such for the most part for a variety of reasons. Ask any pg in the league which one they least like facing and its him in a landslide almost everytime I hear the question posed.
Decision making, shot selection are works in progress no doubt. But this guy has never been granted the young, fresh face stage of his career where everyone just celebrates him as the incredible talent he is without the burden of the over the top scrutiny. Hell even lebron had a grace period early. People have been coming at russ since hes 20/21 years old.
Some of it stems from protecting durant. Everyone likes him, hes humble, he cried at his presser which officially makes him the greatest living human. When things go awry westbrook provides a nice lightning rod because no one wants to come down on saint kevin (one headline aside which was later apologized for). The narrative is often almost acting like durant is burdened by playing with a top young talent like him. Which is nuts. Lets not forget the loss in 5 vs memphis last year when he was hurt.
None of that is at all meant to denigrate kd, but rw gets a ridiculously unfair shake. How many guys are capable of playing on the level he has of late?
like he's been basically his entire tenure as a Net. Maybe it's worse now, who knows... But bottom line they can't rely on their point guard right now so other guys like Blatche and Mirza have to keep stepping up or this won't even go 6.
makes you pass into double coverage under the basket like he did 2 possessions ago. He sucks so hard right now. He is a different player than the one on Utah. Astounding that he was once in the conversation with Paul, Parker, et al.
Coming off a gruesome 7 game series with lots of old players vs a well-rested big 3. Kidd was smart to look to game 2, which was competitive until the 4th. And now they're clearly ready to play full speed again (relative to Miami).
Great win. Hopefully build some momentum for game 4.
We can all break down these games until the cows come home, but honestly it will be Heat-Spurs or Heat-Thunder and you don't need to be a hoops expert to know that.
This series is really heating up now. You have a handful or so of future first ballot hof caliber talents all playing on a high level. Skirmishes everywhere, bad blood, everything you can ask for. Down 16 with 9 minutes left and the clips turn it into a best of three.
Darren collison was a beast down the stretch. Huge lift today
It's just sad watching him look like this, and I'm a guy who has hated him since he was in Minny. One of the best PFs ever but it's time for him to leave the game imo.
On the otherhand, Tim Duncan is that dude. Tony Parker has become the MVP of the Spurs offense in recent years, but Duncan remains the overall MVP of the team. At 37.
Tim Duncan is the Best Forward in NBA History. Bird had a great run and LeBron will eventually take this title but as of now it belongs to Duncan.
and got the board on the allen 3!!! Duncan legacy would be even crazier!
r.e. KG i hope he retires as well. i enjoy watching him teh days he plays solid- which was like game 7 raptors and game 3 heat. but many games he is just absent offesively and its tough to watch.
what a great player and pioneer for the post moses generation of no college guys
and got the board on the allen 3!!! Duncan legacy would be even crazier!
r.e. KG i hope he retires as well. i enjoy watching him teh days he plays solid- which was like game 7 raptors and game 3 heat. but many games he is just absent offesively and its tough to watch.
what a great player and pioneer for the post moses generation of no college guys
TD gets that rebound or makes that hook late in game 7 and he's top 5 of all time, no questions asked.
From like the 7 or 8 min mark of the 3rd quarter through ot after dropping 30 to that point in the game in game 6
They look like the best team this year. Okc remains an awful matchup though because they are super athletic and san antonio really cant match that. If they somehow get through that matchup or avoid it all together, this is probably their year. Really hope im wrong
the real reason why SA lost in the finals last year. It wasnt the missed rebounds, or the 3 by Allen, or any particular individual's play.
The fact that both Leonard and Ginobili both missed 1 of 2 free throws was the reason why the lost. Remember they were up 4 with the ball with 30 some seconds left. If they make 3 out of the 4 it would have made a 3 possession game and Miami would not have had enough time.
dont even call that clear path. He really didnt slow Lebron down. Give Lebron the dunk and play on.
If he fouls him you have to call it. Wasn't a ton of contact but he did foul him. Anderson fouled him and almost simultaneously realized it was a mistake and tried to pull off
ball stopped on that possession. Shame. Hate wasting a chance to take the lead this late in the game. Esp with the way LBJ is playing on the other end.
LeBron actually did foul earlier on that last possession. But a pretty easy no call on the actual shot. Don't know what Joe was crying about. Especially since he never complains to the refs.
1. A 18 foot, off balance pull up jumper by KG early in the shot clock.
2. A fade away by JJ over lebron from about 15-16 feet.
3. Off balance, running 17 footer by JJ trying to to foul out James.
Game tied or one possession game, you have to get better shots than that.
End of the game the heat went to nosh 3 times. Third option and he went 1 of 3 and it won them the game
The nets went ISO and forced it and lost the game
I am not convinced we won't see game 6 back I'm Brooklyn
(and, also obviously, had a small chance to begin with), but you have to say that the Nets are comfortably past the point of embarrassing themselves. Which was far from a given a couple weeks ago when they were a Kyle Lowry bucket away from being bounced in Rnd 1.
All this, too, without their best player and a PG who simply is not an impactful player anymore.
Would be nice to see the series at least go 6 so Indiana is rested for the ECF.
but they've mortgaged their future for quite a while for this team, losing in the 2nd round is not good enough after they went all in. This was supposed to be their year, next year Pierce and Garnett a year older, Johnson a year older, who knows with Williams, will Lopez foot ever be the same?
I can't blame them for going for it, almost had no choice, but this is their best chance this year. Who knows if either Garnett or Pierce will even be back next year
Next year might be a better shot as well
Hard to tell, let's worry about that next year
Future is mortgaged sure, but there are 8 teams left so most peoples futures are worse off then the nets regardless.
As I said game 6 is possible
The game tonight was an awesome experience it just sucks they lost
they took a risk and it didn't pan out. They still made the 2nd round and gave the Heat a run for their money (to the point where the Heat had to sweat a bit up 2-1 late in game 4).
They did mortgage the future, but sometimes you have to roll the dice.
But the nets are in a tough series in the playoffs so it's a discredit to them to get into a Lopez argument
Against the heat he would be assize help
Look at the points in the paint where Lopez has a major impact
and when you go ~4 minutes without a bucket in the crucial moments on the 4th, his absence is noteworthy. No one can argue that he's some hard-nosed force in the middle (and he's more fucking injury prone than Andre Brown), but paired with a strong PF he can be part of a winning team.
Dwill is a much bigger problem for the Nets. He's getting paid $20 million/year. It's astounding. Tony Parker, playing lights out right now, gets 12.
Hes now shooting 58% in the playoffs while averaging over 30 a night. Played him the whole 2nd half as they pretty much had to, looked gassed as hell in that 4th but still came up big and was the best player on the floor. This is the worst heat team since they came together, this game had no business being a tossup with a minute left. They couldnt separate all night. Bosh hits the timely three on a hockey assist from the lebron double which drew kg. Wade gets a timely offensive board, ray allen hits his fts and they survive. They were due to win one of these last minute nailbiters vs the nets after brooklyn basically won all 4 of them this season that would fit that criteria
If miami is going to somehow threepeat through the elevated competition that awaits, lebron is going to need to be in god mode, and it still may not be enough. They have the best player, they do not have the best team
Game in 20 years. Crazy thing about lebron is how the overwhelming majority of his super high scoring games have come away from home, 61 pt game vs charlotte aside. That was the only home game that cracks the top 10 in his regular season career from a scoring standpoint. And most of the huge scoring nights in the playoffs that come to mind were on the road. Be it game 5 at detroit in 07 when he dropped 48. 47 at atlanta 09. 45 at boston twice, once in game 7 2008 and another facing elimination in game 6 2012 (arguably the best game of his career. Throw in 49 tonight
playoffs and regular season his biggest career scoring nights overwhelmingly come on the road
he didnt even get touched on the last one. the game was over, and the ref blew the whistle so fast (10 feet in front of me)-
wonder if he gets fined for the flop when JJ drove. reggie evans style
still 0 career 50 point playoff games for LeBron, with two 49 point games being his career high. Check out this following list that includes all the players to have 10 or more 40 point playoff games since 1964...
Jordan is in his own world as a volume scorer in the playoffs, but LeBron is now building up a playoff scoring resume about as good as any non-Jordan player ever. As of today he has averaged 28.2 PPG on strong efficiency over 146 career playoff games. He has also had a few historic scoring outbursts including his Legendary Game 6 in Boston and his 4th quarter rampage game against Detroit.
LeBron is one of the best ever but his scoring ability may actually be underrated historically. He isn't Jordan but he's arguably the 2nd most explosive playoff scorer ever, something he doesn't get much credit for.
was with about 9 minutes left in the game he took the pull up 3...
Other than that he was scoring in teh flow or in the final seconds of the shot clock...he would move the ball around well and when he was in the post if they doubled he found the open guy...
about it, but Donald Sterling made a fool out of himself yet again in his interview with Anderson Cooper.
"Magic Johnson, what has he done? He has AIDS... he should be ashamed... he's not a good role model"
Just classless comments from Sterling. He gets caught making racist remarks about Magic, yet somehow in his twisted head he thinks this is Magic's fault.
It's amazing how he sets up an interview to try and repair his image yet comes out of it looking worse. Sterling just needs to shut up and go away.
about it, but Donald Sterling made a fool out of himself yet again in his interview with Anderson Cooper.
"Magic Johnson, what has he done? He has AIDS... he should be ashamed... he's not a good role model"
Just classless comments from Sterling. He gets caught making racist remarks about Magic, yet somehow in his twisted head he thinks this is Magic's fault.
It's amazing how he sets up an interview to try and repair his image yet comes out of it looking worse. Sterling just needs to shut up and go away.
I think they both need to go away. I found Magic's comment about D'Antoni despicable. Even though he is not an NBA, he is part owner of other major sports teams, and to belittle someone like that (even if its true or not) is just poor taste.
had a vendetta against D'Antoni ever since the Lakers passed over Phil for him. Magic desperately wanted Phil to return and he thought it was an epic mistake to pass on him for D'Antoni. He was working with ESPN during this time and he was just constantly ripping the move. So I think his comments about the D'Antoni firing was more of an "I told you so" type thing than a personal attack on D'Antoni. It was still a dick move from Magic but I wasn't shocked by it because he detested the fact that D'Antoni was the Lakers coach.
I dont think Magic was wrong, they clearly made the wrong hire. But to me, he has to hold himself to a higher standard since he is a prominent person in sports, including LA.
But to each their own, Magic probably just did something that he probably would have been keeping to himself. Sterling is just a whole level of scum in which many dont travel.
oh my god, the sound clip of Sterling ripping Magic for having AIDS
The more I listen to this guy speak the more he comes off like a crazy old guy with no filter and possible dementia as much as he does a bigot. It was crazy seeing him try to exercise some control last night but you could see him fighting himself and inevitably losing it
crazy thing is that some of the stuff this guy says, coupled with his cartoonish delivery, evokes laughter as much as it does anger. If you threw a laugh track at the end of almost anything he said, it wouldnt seem out of place
This is as dominant a performance on the boards as ive ever seen. At last check it was 48 to 15. And indy is a great rebounding team. Gortat is having the game of his life, raining jump hooks left and right. Best game for wall this postseason
as someone who will root for miami, I have no clue who I want to win this series. On the one hand indy matches up very well with their size and has proven to give miami issues. Hibbert always plays way over his head against them, killed them last year in the playoffs. And indy certainly has the higher ceiling compared to the wiz at this time. We saw them win 33 of 40 at one point, and while it seems like ages ago it is not out of the realm for them to recapture that for a 6 to 7 game span
but on the other hand watching how washingtons bigs have been playing of late, im not sure that isnt an even tougher matchup. I could see gortat and nene just demolishing them up front, and if their perimeter players knock down shots that could get interesting
this is gonna be indys 4th loss at home in the playoffs. And these arent just losses, theyve caught some beatdowns.
as soon as the clock reads 0:00. I always thought he was a god awful coach to begin with, but playing Kendrick Perkins for the last 6:00 of a game where you trailing is fucking retarded.
The guy isnt good enough to be on a roster, yet alone playing in crunch time. They need offense, and he keeps doing absolutely nothing, and doesnt even go for a missed rebound. And here we go, down 7 with 49 seconds and he is STILL in the game.
officials year after year are by far the worst of any major sport. They have a clear replay and dont overturn it because of how incompetent they were in not calling a foul, which you can't do. If you don't call a foul, you have to overturn it.
Can't wait to hear the NBA defend that one. It's going to cost the Clippers the game
I want the Thunder to win, but the Clippers were just completely robbed. NBA officials suck balls.
That review was so obvious
Not only did they fuck the review up, but they fucked up the initial call as well. Its why replay sucks. They definitely gave OKC the ball because they missed the foul. Call the foul in the first place.
need to be sat down for the rest of the playoffs at a minimum. If I were ever a coach I would be in jail because there's no way I wouldn't have choked the officials after that garbage
has actually been playing better, but Durant is the MVP and needs to get the ball on that last shot. That 3 that he shot was awful, Refs bailed Westbrook out.
got fouled before he turned it over that lead to that nonsense too. Certainly more contact on that then there was on the Reggie Jackson play, who im not even sure got fouled despite him acting like he got hit by a tractor trailer
But there should have probably been a foul on the play. One of those situations where two wrongs actually do make a right. Only it should have been reggie jackson at the line rather than an inbounds pass, but it worked out better anyway for okc with the foul on westbrooks three. By the new interpretation of the rule, I think it wss a foul on paul. But in final possession one score games we often see non egregious fouls ignored in the spirit of letting them play. Paul himself knows about this after getting away with a foul on steph curry in game 3 last round. This time he got called
clips will talk a lot about the refs tonight but they participated in their own demise. Biggest play of the game was the westbrook steal. He was awesome tonight. Has been awesome all playoffs. At minimum durants equal in overall impact
I respect the hell out of you but it's no surprise that you would defend this because you hate any criticism of the NBA and its officials.
Doc Rivers is absolutely right. They got robbed completely. NBA trying to hide behind saying they didnt have the replay that showed it off of Jackson. That's such a load of shit.
Get rid of replay, Rivers is absolutely right. Don't use it if you arent going to overturn that
never an excuse to blow a review that is so obvious. Calls are missed during the game when things are moving fast, I think Paul got fouled leading to that, and Jackson got fouled. So they blew two calls, then blew the review.
Im not defending the officials. They sucked down the stretch. But if you are the clips, save me the whining on not being gifted possession there due to a technicality with regards to limitation of replay. He fouled him. Okc ended this game on a 20-3 run or something absurd. The clips choked. Making this about the refs is weak sauce
if they make a simple call on one of the easiest reviews ever, the Clippers win the game. There is never an excuse to blow a replay like that. You can live with bang bang calls, losing a game when you get screwed on a review is something that would have me in jail if I were a coach
Than okc would have been on the non foul call. If they award the clips the ball, scott brooks has every right to take the same tone doc is right now, only with more credibility
how about get a stop and not foul a three point shooter. How about not end the game in utter collapse over the final 4 minutes. The clips got the result they deserved tonight
the Clippers only got robbed of OT, it's just that sequence of calls is hilariously bad. no earthly idea how you can go to review and then call that OKC ball
The officials may not have blown the replay. Tnt just posted an interpretation of the rule. If a player has his hand in contact with the ball and an opponent hits the hand causing the ball to go out of bounds, the player who had his hand on the ball retains possession
Its close on whether or not it applies here. Depends on whether you think the ball also hit jacksons right hand or not too. But even that is inconclusive
I dont think he fouled him and neither did paul. Just called it the dumbest play of his career because he was anticipating an intentional foul that didnt come. I think he got it clean
it then becomes a subjective interpretation by the refs, and one I agree with actually.
Barnes hitting Jackson's wrist/hand, which (subjectively) I think was in contact with the ball, is what caused the ball to go out of bounds, Thunder ball.
didnt use that interpretation, they told Doc Rivers they didnt have a replay showing the ball clearly going off of Jackson
to me that explanation is consistent with that interpretation if theyre saying they didnt have it clearly going off of jacksons right hand. If it only hit his left hand its technically not off jackson due to barnes hand being the driving force
I tend to think it did hit his right hand... but if theyre going with inconclusive, its not that indefensible. And we still shouldnt forget the right team retained possession. Even if we cant be sure about the means
This series is developing into a potential classic. These last two games youre seeing 4th quarter comebacks that were probably 1 to 2 percent longshots mathematically.
We are now in the final days of getting multiple games everynight. By weeks end im gonna miss it. One game a night tops, sometimes none, starts next week. Its been an awesome playoffs, and as much as I look forward to the heavyweight battles ahead, im gonna miss this stage. Similar to how the ncaa tourney has an appeal early on that cant be duplicated as the field shrinks, there is something about the volume of availability stage that is awesome.
and seeing everything, replays/interviews, I am glad the officials called it the way they did. It would have been more of a crime to give LAC the ball on an obvious missed foul called.
The story is not that call. Its that a top 5 NBA player had 2 turnovers and fouled a 3 point shooter up 2 all with under 20 seconds left in the game. The focus needs to be on him.
In 2 years. Really only last years game 4 vs the spurs comes close. Looks on his way to a vintage night. Heat might need this 3 or 4 times from him the rest of the way if theyre gonna threepeat
how Pop's decision not to put on the court the best PF in the history of the game resulting in a prayer 3 by a ringchaser bailed out James from another Finals loss.
Among others, and certainly more to come against Indiana and (probably) SA again.
If you don't think that was a fluke win we just witnessed, I don't know what game you were watching.
it is like professional wrestling but with a ball. Almost totally rigged. The fact that it is KNOWN that the stars get the calls is just total bullshit. It changes games.
Pierce should have been taking two foul shots at the end there to tie the game.
It's about the NBA Robbing a team from a chance to go home and play game 6
It was not earned it was given
On offense and defense
It's pathetic
It's obvious
And it's awful
And lets just pretend like the ray allen three just happened randomly, as if him having the air space to fire a corner three wasnt initiated by the double on lebron, which gave them a 2 on 1 on the backside and led to the hockey assist, just like the bosh dagger in game 4
He killed you in this series. Take a number.
Joe johnson didnt deserve a loss tonight though. Heat were on fire from deep in that 2nd half after going 1 for 16 at half. Lebron closed strong after a slow start, the nets were ultra reliant on jj in that 2nd half. Brooklyn has nothing to be ashamed of, it was a hard fought 5
was their first choice, why did they talk to Kerr first, and immediately after talking to Kerr all the reports were that the Warriors are moving on because they believe Kerr is going to the Knicks.
I love that. He did it because he is a bumbling idiot right? Not because he wanted a lineup out there that could chase guys off the three point line and switch on screens so no shooter could spring free. Something he does often in those spots to defend the three. Of course in total hindsight fashion we have guys who dont know if a ball is pumped or stuffed not only killing pop, but acting like lebrons title doesnt count now. Take that same fine toth comb to anyones career and there is no legacy that is untarnished.
Everything youve saie st3ms from not one iota of a reasonable basketball convo, and solely from a place of frustration and a hatred of the player
but this is not unlike the 03 Niners game when Seubert was blatantly held. Yes, the Giants (Nets) sucked hard to give up their lead. But incompetent refs fucked up huge and screwed over the visiting team. Fluke win.
Pierce should have been at the line. And we are all robbed of a compelling game 6 at Barclays.
Lebron has a horseshoe up his ass, period. No one can deny how great he is - like in the Finals game 7 or in game 4 of this series - and certainly he makes some of his own luck, but it's salient how reliable the Heat are on players like a 38 y/o Ray Allen and on getting away with slapping forearms with 5 seconds left. Even with that, it's probably not going to be enough this year against SA, LAC, or maybe Indiana if they can dominate the glass.
(in fact on a personal level I think he's awesome and a great face for the NBA). I do dislike the Heat and how their team came together (ditching Cleveland, the "Decision", pre-season championship celebration and all). And did so long before this series.
You, on the other hand, worship him to a bizarre degree. You're a Knicks fan rooting for the Heat. That's like a Giants fan rooting for the Montana/Rice Niners because of how amazing those 2 players were. It's weird.
I am indeed frustrated after that loss, though. You nailed me.
Were absolutely blatant off aggressive rim attacks. People are gonna whine about officiating and superstar calls until they are blue in the face. 95 plus percent of the time without merit
if officials really wanted miami to win this game, they did a terrible job. Because thats fairly easy to accomplish without it getting to 30 seconds left with miami down and a ray allen three in the air
But lets focus on some calls You disagreeed with late and form a tired conspiracy. While neglecting to realize a 5 game series is squarely against the leagues best interest and forfeits millions in gate and tv revenue. You conspiracy guys need to keep your arguments straight, because when we see game 7s in the nba we have to hear how the nba is pushing for them. Now they want 5 gamers. As if miami doesnt win anyway.
But I enjoy calling out stupid when it comes to him when I see it. And youre bringing it in bulk. Theres nothing of essence there to really go at that is above a 3rd grade level conversation though. You are basically calling him lucky, the retort of a frustrated 8 year old, and overrating the shit out of a very flawed cast because they have names you recognize. Oh and I forgot pop took duncan out of a game to defend a three, so his legacy is ruined
you sound like a moron. And I hesitate to say it because I like you otherwise, but its not uncalled for
but encourage you to fire off to your heart's content if it makes you feel better.
What do you mean "names I recognize"? Believe it or not, Joe, other people watch a lot of NBA. I don't have time for 82, but the way you're portraying my position as "drrrr I know Chris Bosh and Ray Allen, they gud players" is baseless and cheap. Allen is patently still an impactful player. He drained the late 3 and initiated the steal on JJ on the last shot. Bosh crushed the Nets in game 4. Wade dropped 28 tonight while James struggled a little (relative to his normal self) at times. Miami is a far cry from his situation in Cleveland where he was surrounded by dogs. He gets major help (which is not to downplay how sensational a player he is).
Would you not be frustrated if Melo saw no call after getting his forearm slapped and losing the ball in the final seconds of an elimination game? The ref was standing right there. It's kinda bullshit. No conspiracy...certainly astounding incompetence.
It was pointless to bring up James' legacy. A rather insipid, and certainly wholly incomplete, debate at this point. Indeed heat of the moment frustration. Rescinded. (Although I'd bet my car Popovich thought many times "fuck, I should have had him in there.")
I just read the NBA's official statement on the call last night.
Quote:
"With 11.3 seconds left in the game, the basketball went out of bounds on the baseline and the referees ruled the ball belonged to the Thunder," the league's president of basketball operations, Rod Thorn, said in a statement Wednesday. "The referees then used instant replay to review the play. In order to reverse the call made on the court, there has to be 'clear and conclusive' evidence.
Doc Rivers had calmed considerably Wednesday since his postgame comments when the coach said his team was "robbed" of a victory by the officials.
"Since no replay provided such evidence, the play correctly stood as called with the Thunder retaining possession."
Either the refs are blind and they didnt see what everyone else in america saw that it hit Jackson's hand, or the NBA replay system is a complete joke. If they didn't have a replay that provided such evidence, then they need to scrap the replay system because its a joke. If the refs didn't see that it clearly went off of Jackson, then they need new officials.
Either way the refereeing in the NBA is a joke on a nightly basis. Last night, heat game tonight, just high comedy
there has never been a player that has led a team to consecutive
Titles while having to carry a bigger load than lebron. Their leading scorer, rebounder, assist guy and defensive stopper against the other teams biggest threat down the stretch of every game. This squad is putrid upfront, if they dont three peat that will be the reason why. A horrific rebounding team like the nets just horsed them on the boards in this series. Last years miami team was the worst rebounding team to ever win a title, and this years is even worse. This is not a disadvantage any star player has ever had to contend with. He has to sit around for the next week legitimately fearing roy fucking hibbert with a straight face, because his frontcourt turns any capable big into hakeem olajuwon. Dude dropped 22 and 10 a night on them in the playoffs last year
lets not act like wades night tonight is in any way common of late in the postseason. Take the name off the jersey and judge him solely on his play in the last two postseasons. Last year battling through a knee he was one of the most impotent 2nd options on a title team of all time, and was a liabikity defensively. Bosh didnt cover himself in glory either getting worn down by playing out of position. And at this point has been turned into a glorified floor spacer with below average rebounding presence and no post game, hes like a 7 foot 2 guard. Im a fan, but there is only one basketball, and his talents as a pure scorer (his biggest asset) are muted as a 3rd option. Thats why team building is about more than the collection of names. Chris bosh might be a better player than say serge ibaka. But if miami made that deal tomorrow they would be a better team
im a ray allen guy. But is it somehow an unfair advantage to have a three point specialist on your bench? Because that is all he is now. Hes not making the hall based on his role here. Hit the big shot in game 6, didnt score in game 7. Thats who were talking about. And hes very useful, but virtually every team has a guy who can play the role he does now, and most arent as big a liability defensively. He had a very good series vs the nets, was awful in round 1. Were gonna act like hes anything more than a good role player?
solid against Dallas & OKC, clearly hobbled this and last season. Still dangerous though and capable of exploding like he did tonight.
Bosh has, oddly, become one of the more underrated players in the league. He is a very good NBA player, still. Was never a force on the glass with Miami (Haslem pulled down a lot for a couple years) but - just speaking as a fan of a team playing Miami - he is a fucking pain in the ass to play against. Just a continued nuisance even when he goes for merely like 14 and 7.
Of course Allen, in the sunset of his career, is now a role player. But he's as experienced as they come and has proven absurdly clutch. I would have loved him on the Nets, who are pathetically un-clutch outside of JJ.
Bottom line: Lebron has impactful talent around him, although less so than 2 years ago. Far more useful than Mo Williams and Delonte West and whoever the hell other JAGs he had around him in Cleveland. He's an absurdly good player, but - and you can call me stupid or blind or w/e - I don't think his first 2 titles are anywhere near as impressive as, say, MJ's 2nd against Portland. I will, however, eat my words if Lebron leads this Heat team over the Spurs the way they, SA, are playing now (assuming they can get by LAC/OKC). I don't, however, think he will.
Your consecutive titles point: that narrows it down pretty far. Lakers, Rockets, Bulls if we're talking recent history. As long as you bring up Hakeem...his first title (before Drexler) was utter domination. One of the best seasons by a big man in NBA history.
When the bulls win the clincher of that series coming back from 15 down in the 4th with mj on the bench for all of it. A team with the best two way wing player in the game outside of mj himself on the same team, pippen of that time was clearly better than wade. A frontcourt that controlled the boards at a dominant level and protected the paint defensively
jordan is the goat. But we dont even need to engage in hypotheticals to talk about how good his cast was. When he left for baseball we saw virtually the same team at its core win 55 games and come within a bogus hue hollins call away from likely making the finals. His team without him was one bad call away from knocking off his biggest conference rival without him whiles hes whiffing on curve balls. Came within a blink of beating the team who themselves came within a blink of winning a title
(I don't really remember his first ring against Magic/Worthy). He was tremendous that series, but, yes, clearly it's inarguable that he had a better supp cast than 2014 Lebron. He also faced much more stacked and physical teams, however (prime Ewing or Barkley would annihilate this Heat squad).
The 90s knicks were a team I loved but were immensely flawed offensively. Lebron has never faced a defense in any round of his playoff career, let alone a finals, as bad as the 93 barkley suns. Jordan played on a loaded team during the largest period of expansion post merger, watering down the talent pool before the foreign talent explosion could allow things to catch up. Winning 72 games is as much an indictment on the state of the league as it is the bulls greatness. That wasnt even the best version of mj
arguing jordan over lebron is very reasonable. But centering those arguments around mjs era being way better, or mj doing more with less is not a good starting point
When you prop up those flawed knick teams as indeed his toughest conference competition durin the first threepeat, lets again not forget the bulls were a call away from knocking that team out of the playoffs with mj playing baseball.
If you took lebron off miami, theyre home right now. Watching this series unfold I cant envision a scenario where they even beat this net team. Even in a modern day eastern conference that is weak relative to the modern west. They would be home now
The nets outplayed the heat for much of the series, but the inability to create ball movement and open looks in key spots doomed them.
That is something they have to look at next year.
The officiating last night was embarrassing. The fact that on 1 key swing they let lebron play football defense after being torched for a stretch, and then a b s touch foul on he other end, was the biggest deciding factor down the stretch. Throw in pierce getting hacked, and it leaves a sour taste
Those calling for a nets fall off are premature. If they are able to bring Livingston back (will be tough) and Lopez heals, there is little reason to think they fall off. I would like to see pierce return as well. Let's see how bit plays out. I'd say most we're surprised how even much of this series was
''or mj doing more with less is not a good starting point''
clearly it's inarguable that he had a better supp cast than 2014 Lebron
On the first point, I would characterize the Malone/Stockton Jazz as "stacked" with the former obviously an extremely physical player. Ditto Kemp/Payton Sonics. Also think you're selling Ewing short. MJ beat some great teams....that's not glorification.
And what NBA team is not "flawed" right now? Jesus look at the Pacers. OKC relies overwhelmingly on 2 players, one of which proves pretty hot & cold. Gotta love the Spurs but they're banged up and old. The younger Thunder or Clips could end up bouncing them.
last 4 minutes reminded me so much of the Knicks. Guys just standing around watching Joe take (and miss) shot after shot. No ball movement. No strategy. Just isolation. It's pathetic to watch and works far, far, far less than it fails. There are 5 capable basketball players out there. Use them all. Miami, San Antonio etc. don't get into isolation ball with 4 minutes left and an 8 point lead.
Such a bad loss because of the awful strategy. They should have won that game.
The way you asterisk the hell out of last years finals because parker had a hammy, I wonder how much gary payton playing through a torn calf muscle "tarnishes mjs legacy", selective application and/or faulty memory.
The jazz had arguably the best team those bulls faced in the finals. And that was malone and stockton in their mid 30s with little depth, just capitalizing on the decline of other western powers to finally get over the hump. They were bigtime playoff underachievers for the bulk of their time together. Malone often declined mightily in postseason, they lacked a reliable 2nd scorer. As great as stockton was, he came from a time where a scoring pg was a dirty word. And even though he had the talent to be a bigger scorer, that lack of a presence behind malone held the jazz back
You cant compare teams across eras based on won loss records when theyre playing in a different league. There are x amount of wins to be divided between 30 teams each season, and how they are alotted depends on the general strength of the league top to bottom. Mj played during a time of ridiculous expansion with a much smaller talent pool than today. He helped create the global beast, he didnt largely compete against it. Remove the 25 percent or so foreign presence and replace them with lesser qualified americans. That was mjs league. Not to mention the wider pool of american talent today based on growing popularity and participation, not to mention population growth.
There is much more talent in the league today than the 90s top to bottom. The bottom half of the league is way stronger than it used to be. Guys shoot it better today by a country mile. The athletes are better. The defensive schemes are way more advanced. Its not even arguable
Have more foreign talent than the entire nba did for much of mjs career. Especially first threepeat. This is now a game for the best players in the world. And almost every corner of the globe is developing talent. It is harder than ever to make the league
today and the 90s is the skill of bigs. Not to say big men arent good today, but the 90s was just loaded with talented big men like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, the start of Shaq, Malone, Barkley. Even guys like Coleman, Mourning, Smits, the start of Webber, Kemp, among others.
I know today guys like Love, Bosh, Aldridge bring a new dimension of the power forward position. But at the center position guys like Noah, Howard, Hibbert, Gasol I dont believe are as offensively gifted than what we saw in the 90s.
the 90s were the golden era for top end center talent
But once you get out of that top 5 to 6, the depth is very comparable. Todays center position is quietly strong. Rule changes also make post scoring a bit tougher today. Obviously the top end center talent was stronger then though
The league is way deeper today on the wing and at pg, very arguably at the 4 spot too. This league is loaded at that spot
Has really always been the weak spot from a depth standpoint. The 90s caught lightning in a bottle with top end talent, but never at any point has the depth from the middle to bottom half been ultra impressive. Theres just not many 7 footers walking the planet, and even fewer who can walk and chew gum at the same time. Even in jordans era teams convinced themselves to give laughable contracts to big stiffs like jon koncak and jim mcilvane because most of the league was that desperate for an upgrade at the position. There were plenty of teams who started garbage at that spot just for the sake of starting a traditional lineup, whereas today forward thinking teams would just play small
the center spot today also hasnt been lucky today. Yao should still be playing on a high level. Greg oden. Bynums injuries (and attitude, but mostly injury), he was a phenomenal talent. Sure if I think harder im missing a couple
centers were also the HS early entrants. Guys like Brown, Curry and to an extent Chandler were rushed into something they werent ready for. I am sure there are a handful of other early entrants that fall in that line as well.
Two other injured centers that never reached their potential was Bogut and Okafor.
Yep great mention with bogut. He has been fucked offensively after he took that fall and mangled his arm and elbow. Still a great defensive anchor though
in rebuttal to my belief that Lebron's 2 titles are slightly underwhelming for such a dominant superstar, you simultaneously call MJ the "goat" and attempt to trivialize his rings. Which is it? You called me a moron for doing it to LBJ...seems strange to then apply it to MJ.
Remember Kobe's game 7 against Boston in 2010? He was horrific shooting the basketball. 6-24 and 0-6 (!) from 3-pt. Just awful. Totally bailed out by Artest and Pau to get ring #5. Is it illegitimate to note this when talking about his finals career? If not, why is it illegitimate to reference Lebron's totally soft showing against Dallas and missed game-winner against San Antonio, which was bailed out by a prayer Ray Allen 3? You can call it "asterix-ing" wins...I call it discussing the details of the games. Like you'd discuss the Seahawks win over Green Bay after the bomb to Golden Tate. Or the aforementioned Niners win after bludgeoning an eligible receiver in Seubert. Or the blown call on Ballard's knee.
You're really sensitive toward even the mildest criticism of Lebron. While acknowledging he is a tremendous player, why is it so objectionable to believe the roads to his rings were not a notably steep climb? Peyton Manning is a once in a generation great QB. A master. Is it some profound slight to believe his lone Super Bowl win was pretty unimpressive? It was. Eli's 2007 was way more impressive. Dirk's ring more impressive than either of Lebron's. Opinions, obviously, but not really worthy of getting bent out of shape about.
Im doing it to mj to show you that silly nitpicking like the one you partake in can be held against anyone
And im gonna go ahead and call bullshit on dirks run being more impressive. The only aspect that may have been more impressive is the unexpected nature of it, because dirk is dirk and lebron is lebron. But lebron played on a clearly higher level than dirk did, resoundingly so if you take both ends of the floor into account. And if you divorce yourself from name power (which you seem incapable of doing) youd see dirks cast actually played better in that run than either of lebrons two title casts. Jason terry shot the lights out in that run and gave dallas a much more efficient second scorer punch than lebron had in either run. He had a DPOY caliber bigman manning the paint and changing the entire culture of the dallas d, complimenting dirk and his defensive deficiencies. He had a team that went legit 10 deep
you just pointed out nuance in the form of Jason Terry's contributions for Dallas. Is that "asterix-ing" Dirk's title? You're getting bent out of shape because someone favors discussing how these rings were won rather than just enumerating...okay, MJ: 6, Lebron: 2, Kobe: 5, Dirk: 1. It's interesting to take into account how they were won. Kobe's 5th, for instance, was all but entirely reliant on his teammates because he sucked hard that game 7. That's a factual account of the game.
What'd you think of Peyton's SB win? He's a top 10, maybe top 5 NFL player of all-time. Is it an unreasonable slight against him to opine that his younger brother had the more impressive playoff run?
Peytons playoff career is sketchy.None of the guys you are talking about saw their production dip in the playoffs as much as him. I have no issue dinging manning for his postseason career, but id have an issue if you still didnt consider him on a short list of the best qbs ever, and the best regular season performer ever. I really dont see the tie in to anything weve discussed. Lebron is very literally one of the best playoff performers of all time. This was true even before he won a ring. And the bigger the game the better he played. There has never been a better game 7 performer in the history of the sport. Never been a better elimination game player. These are just facts. The only guy you could argue above him in those spots is bill russell because he virtually never lost in those spots, but an argument with him might be biased by team success
There is no way in hell dirk did more for his team in 2011 than lebron in 12 or 13. He had his hand in way fewer facets of the game. I love dirk, he was great. But you are basically neglecting one end of the floor, discarding the offensive load that comes with being the top scorer AND defacto pg who has to initiate the offense. Dirk didnt have to run an offense or guard other teams top threats. Lebron even had a bigger load to carry on the boards and dirk is the 7 footer between them. Dirk was asked to score at a high clip efficiently. Dominate from the high post, hit his threes, every once in a while create for a teammate out of a double team, but not be the primary ball handler. He was amazing in his role, but he wasnt asked to do nearly as much
He started slow but has been in a zone since the 2nd quarter. Westbrook yet to score, does have 8 dimes though and didnt commit a turnover until a min ago. Ibaka just limped off the floor though, didnt see what caused it.
We have the final 4 we expected to see for virtually all season. Even though it got dicey there with okc and the pacers at various points. Spurs were a minute away from going down 3-1 against dallas themselves, but chalk won out
im going with the heat and thunder in 6. Wouldnt be stunned to be wrong in either case.
The ecf is going to basically come down to what hibbert the pacers get. He is a certified heat killer, and if he can come close to approximating the series he had last year, theyre gonna be tough to beat. Miami did make an adjustment on hibbert though in the 2nd half of their 3rd meeting this year, and the entire time in the 4th meeting, by making haslem his primary defender. He is giving up a ton of size but did a nice job forcing his catches further out. Cagey vet who can get in his head and is a better post defender than bosh or birdman, he really shut him down. But its tough to over credit haslem because hibbert was awful against all comers post all star break. He really started to come around during this wizard series though
in any case id expect miami to give haslem a big role in this series, probably go from bench warmer vs the nets to starter in game 1 due to the matchup. Battier will go from starter to the fringe of the rotation and might get buried all together
as for the wcf, okc's recent ownership of sa is well documented. 10 of 12 including playoffs. Parker entering the series with a tender hammy and will now have to chase the roadrunner russell westbrook all over the floor. Good luck with that. Ibaka's calf injury is something to monitor too though. The thunder have athletic advantages all over the floor though. If the thunder bench can just hold their own and not get hit with game altering runs against the spurs 2nd unit of 5 foreigners (which has been a lethal lineup this postseason) I think theyll be ok. Okc is not one shred initimidated by san antonio, if anything the opposite is true. This was a matchup they did not want. They were rooting for memphis and the clips as hard as anyone
to automatically refrain from impugning the play of superstars merely because they're superstars. And that considering nuance and details beyond just counting their ring totals can sometimes be instructive (Kobe's game 7 against Boston being just one shining example).
series was so frustrating. LAC plays really good basketball - moving the ball, moving without the ball, getting good open shots. I watch a lot of NBA games, and for me there's not a fundamentally worse offense in league than OKC (admittedly I didn't watch much of the Bucks and Sixers this year). Horrible shots, 1-on-5, no player movement, no ball movement.
And it's so weird to me that so many people like them when their games look like the worst pickup games you'll ever play in. I guess the Durant "seems like a nice guy" effect is that powerful.
I think the key to beating them will be to keep them off the foul line. Just let them do their hero ball, but don't foul. Westbrook will get points his with his reckless drives. Durant will take and make some terrible shots. It's tough becuase Westbrook is so aggressive. And because you have to play tight on Durant and he flops so much, especially for non-shooting fouls. Those are the absolute killer, Durant throwing his arms up and getting 2 free points.
Conference finals should be great. The NBA playoffs is all about the best teams, and we've got the best teams squaring off. Although I do think the Clippers deserved better.
More depth. More scoring options. Better D. Much better 2nd unit. They should have won it all this year. I'm not one to rip on the refs but a lot of questionable calls went against the Clippers in this series.
The damn call on Paul on the offensive foul in this last game was hard to take. I have never seen that call in my life. Was he supposed to take the knee to the face?
It was topped by the pathetic foul call on the 3 pointer in game 5 and the obvious BS call on the Jackson play before the 3 pt shot. It was clear as day that ball went off Jackson. Its complete BS the refs can choose when to use replay. On this play, they choose to ignore what was on that replay. And then after all of that they don't call the foul for Paul at the end of the game. The guy punched him in the arm. That's not a foul but Paul standing straight up on 3 pointer is a foul.
I HATE the change with the fouls on shooters (especially 3 pointers). The shooters can jump into a guy not moving and its a foul.
My biggest beef with the Clippers in this series was the use of Griffin. When he catches that ball at the top of the key he needs to attack more often. They were dropping 5 ft off him and he rarely put the ball on the floor and attacked from that spot. He consistently ignored it and looked to move it back to the guards. He should have been more aggressive. And they should have dropped it into him in the post more often. This should have been plan A every time down the court.
the call involving Jackson but fails to realize that he was fouled is kind of ironic. So imagine them giving LAC the ball, would they be ok with the way it was officiated? Because then the Thunder gets screwed. The ultimate result was probably the best because no team got the upper hand. OKC still needed to score.
The reason they lost game 5 was not the officials, it was Chris Paul. Trying to draw a foul for a 3 point shot 80 feet away from the basket is just down right stupid. That singe play cost them the game and the potential to win the series. Not a foul missed by the referees that gave the right team the ball.
And Paul absolutely fouled him on the 3 point shot. He clearly hit him on the wrist. The same way Crawford got a 4 point play earlier in the game.
The refs should choose when to use replay. That's a joke.
There are missed calls on hand slaps all game long. The bottom line is the refs should not have the option to use replay to cover for any missed foul call.
They had the same call in the GS series. Paul was fouled but no call. Ball out on Paul. Replay gives ball to GS. They did not choose to use replay to correct a missed foul call here. Refs should not have that option to choose when to use replay to cover for fouls. Its BS.
Give the ball to LAC, and OKC gets screwed and that's OK? Only if you are a clippers fan. Its pretty obvious what happened. The ref saw the play, knew Jackson got fouled, saw the ball go out of bounds... give OKC the ball. Replay or not, the right call was to give OKC the ball.
The fact of the matter is a top 3 player in the NBA turned it over twice and foiled a 3 point shooter in the final 17 seconds. That's where the blame lies.end of story. Maybe Paul should stop crying (by far the biggest complainer in the NBA) and not try a shot from 80 feet away trying to draw a foul.
What should be noted is that CPIII comes up short again. But excuses will be made for him.
has to be used to fix referees mistakes on consecutive nights at the end of games, then the NBA needs new officials.
Replay should be used for one reason and one reason only, to get THAT call correct. Not fix other fuck ups by the officials
And if the ref called a foul on Jacksons play people would complain that it was a touch foul and it dictated the outcome of the game. I have absolutely ZERO problem with the call. OKC needed to have the ball one way or the other.
athletes on the perimeter was the real issue. It's why the Thunder were the better overall team imo. With Chris Paul being a much better halfcourt orchestrator than Westbrook and Blake Griffin being a FAAAR better low post scoring threat than anyone on OKC, you could argue that the Clippers are the better offense. At the very least, the Clippers had a more balanced and versatile offense than OKC.
But I think the Clippers' lack of athleticism on the perimeter killed them. If they just had someone like Nic Batum, I think they'd be the best team in the league this year.
The Thunder are the least smoke and mirrors great team in sports today. On offense, It's Durant... It's Westbrook. That's it, and it works. It's ugly to watch because there's no passing on offense and it's mainly KD and Russ taking turns. But it works because of KD being an all-time great scorer and Westbrook being the most hyperathletic PG ever.
As a "team", I believe both the Spurs and Clips are better balanced and easier to watch. But I think OKC is just much more explosive and athletic than those two teams on the perimeter and it makes a big difference. I think the Thunder are the best team in the West and the team with the highest ceiling in the league outside of maybe Miami (depends on Wade).
Sugar K Leonard will be the key role player in the WCF imo. Bigtime series for Durant's reputation. He hasn't had his A game in the playoffs.
IMO this series will boil down to the PG matchup. Westbrook seems to always take Parker's lunch money on both sides of the ball and totally punks him. I feel SA would beat the Clips in a 7 game series, but OKC is a bad matchup for SA.
you can't use replay to fix mistakes that the referees made that are not reviewable. That's absurd. If you start doing that, when does it stop?
Get officials that can do their jobs. Officials are going to blow calls throughout the game, so should they go back and fix those mistakes too?
I know many college officials who rather give the ball to a team than call a foul. That may have well been the case here. IMO, the Thunder needed to have the ball there. LAC still could have gotten a stop, LAC could have gotten a score at the end. The problem is not the call, its replay. If coaches have a problem with a call of this nature, then replay will be extended to if there was a dfoul on the play.
Everyone and their mother knows Jackson got fouled on the play. So, include fouls as well on the replay because they are just as easy to see as who it was off. That way less coaches will complain about a paritcular outcome. I loved the call. If LAC got the ball, there would have been more of an injustice than what happened.
Or better yet, dont try to shoot the ball from the opposite foul line when someone is going to foul you. You dont do that, you arent in the situation your already in.
Im really not interested in continuing this. But ill close here. Im the furthest thing from a kobe fan and think hes a bit overrated historically. But you cant act like his 2010 title didnt count because of a poor game 7. Thats really silly. I dont really have the desire to get into why, that should be evident
I agree with osi 100% and have been beating this drum all year, their wing defenders are a huge issue, especially when the road to a title has to go through durant and/or lebron. Its like an nfl team with no pass rush going through prime manning and brady in the postseason. Durant just dropped 33 a game in this series on a true shooting % north of 60%. And thats even with the aberration in game 5 which was one of the worst shooting nights of his playoff career.
This is who I recall seeing time on him in this series...
matt barnes.... hes an ok defender but when he is your best, you are in trouble
danny granger.... once was solid now cannot move laterally
cp3.... giving up a foot but going small on him was the only way to stop getting killed off the dribble, because barnes and granger were. But he needed frequent double team help and you couldnt do it for any more than small doses or you wear him out
crawford and redick round out their wing guys, and while redick might be underrated defensively, none of those guys are above average.
lebron would murder this team. Wade would even have a throwback series. They could have used a guy like deng when chicago was dangling him. Their offense is capable of incredible heights and for that reason they had a punchers chance. But it was going to be tough
Could be massive. We are supposed to find out more today but presti seemed a bit concerned. If he is out or limited in any way, thats a game changer. Spurs would benefit for the 2nd year in a row because of an okc playoff injury
Parker says his hammy is fine and he will be ready for game 1
Could be massive. We are supposed to find out more today but presti seemed a bit concerned. If he is out or limited in any way, thats a game changer. Spurs would benefit for the 2nd year in a row because of an okc playoff injury
Parker says his hammy is fine and he will be ready for game 1
Deep down, an injury to Ibaka means more Durant. And thats fine by me. More KD, the better.
I can just see Westbrook going insane in this series, regardless
I hope Ibaka is healthy just so we can see Durant vs. Kawhi Leonard. Leonard was dominant versus Portland.
I hope the Heat sweep the Pacers. I can't get over the fact the Pacers are still alive despite the 3-5 most gutless performances of the entire postseason.
But above all I want okc to take this series. I just think its clearly a better matchup for miami, who im rooting for right now. And in the event the heat dont threepeat id much rather see kd and westbrook hoisting that trophy than san antonio. If we get a san antonio vs indy final I may have to have an internal debate about whether or not its best for me to be in this country for those 2 weeks. I may just hide out in the mountains and grow a big beard, come back to civilization when its over
is an excellent defender. He did an great job with Durant in this series. Collison is another good defender with quickness.
Vs Lebron, Griffin and Barnes would have guarded him. That is not an easy matchup for Lebron. Last time they played Griffin was up for it and did a nice job on D when matched up. He can't out quick or out muscle Griffin.
Ibaka's ability to hit open mid-range jumpers is such a key part of their offense. One of the main reasons Durant ascended another level this year was the development of his PnR game with Ibaka. Durant piled up so many assists through this play.
Bigtime loss for OKC. I still think they can beat the Spurs but now it's almost entirely on KD and Westbrook.
dep, yea I was probably a little too strong with the "not his A game" comments. I just hold him to such a high standard and during these playoffs his shot has seemed a little hot/cold compared to his regular season self. He definitely bounced back vs. the Clips after the Grizz series.
He would be a fish out of water against him on the perimeter. And the clips would never put that much on his plate anyway, or the energy required would sacrifice other parts of his game
you really overrate barnes. Hes a decent wing defender, but every team who appeared in this round, maybe even these playoffs entirely save atlanta, has one or two better. The clips were unequipped to handle any big wing scorer and that shined bright in this series
When griffin guarded lebron for stretches. It was a tnt national game early in the year. Lebron was playing with back spasms and seen lying on the sidelines larry bird circa 1990 style. Griffin only saw him because the clips were banged up on the wing. Wade had arguably his best game of the year that night because you cant guard him either.
blake griffin isnt a guy you see playing 20 feet from the rim against guys who can handle the ball very often. If the clips ever went to a heavy dose of that, lebron would have the goat finals performance.
But they never played that series because durant just authored arguably the best series of his career against them, as expected. This was clear to see coming from him. Either this or the 12 wcf
So instead of creating a new post I could just add to the one above. But I also want to add that even if im completely wrong and griffin could hold up better in that matchup than im giving him credit for (and I doubt it) there is still no way in hell he doesnt get in massive chronic foul trouble. He has enough of an issue as it is not racking them up when hes not guarding the best in the world
in any case, both are playing well. PG drawing doubles and taking the assists, LeBron getting to the hoop at will, making use if a bunch of screens. Hopefully this pace keeps up in the 2nd half.
in any case, both are playing well. PG drawing doubles and taking the assists, LeBron getting to the hoop at will, making use if a bunch of screens. Hopefully this pace keeps up in the 2nd half.
Indy is getting a lot of balance. Hill was big in the 1st, West made moves down lown, Hibbert was a factor, Stephenson made a lot of jumpers, Watson contributed. Scola was a factor.
The guy who I think is a stiff anymore is Bosh. He doesnt even bother to post up. He is like Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges reincarnated.
but I personally don't care about that. Rooting for the Spurs to win regardless of opponent. And I think the Pacers have a decent shot at an Ibakaless OKC.
That okc can still beat the spurs without ibaka. Having trouble doing it. Want to be surprised. His rim protection, pick and roll d, offensive spacing and general athleticsm vs a lumbering spurs frontcourt will be missed. Collison is a hell of a role player. Some of the super advanced stats like rapm paint him as one of the most impactful role players of the era. But now having to play more minutes and somehow avoid foul trouble, its a different ballgame. I want to see okc go small and have durant at the 4 here for long stretches, see if you can get away with hiding him on splitter without getting killed for downsizing
that automatically gives them a puncher's chance against anyone. If Ibaka were healthy I would've picked OKC in 6, now I'd lean SAS in 6. But I still expect this one to go 6/7 games no matter what.
Ibaka is a huge loss. His money mid-range jumper opens up the lane for his own teammates to penetrate, and his rim protection skills makes it harder for the opposing team to penetrate. The PG matchup is huge in this series with Parker going up against Westbrook. Ibaka's loss could have a major impact on the PG matchup. Parker should find it much easier with no Ibaka around. Whereas Westbrook might be forced into more contested jumpers and less layups with no Ibaka around.
Leonard on Durant should be really fun to watch this series. Durant will need to torch him if OKC wants to win the series. I would definitely go smallball in this series for stretches if I were Brooks, Durant at the 4 guarding Splitter shouldn't be too risky.
1. Two best players as you said
2. Head to head success vs sa since the 2012 playoffs and in the regular seasons since, if for no other reason than okc will be confident against this team and have experiences to draw on
but its going to be tough. Durant and westbrook need to both play on an incredibly high level. Westbrook will basically have to demolish parker
And yes i understand they are in the hunt every year and they have been to a championship but that is more credit to durant and westbrook than it is to brooks
His lineups are just absolute dogshit. Some moves he makes just make me question how he is a coach
blunt instrument that only works in certain regards, but it was amazing to look at the box score and see that Danny Green was +30 in 27 minutes, whereas no one else on the Spurs was more than +12.
and it seems like every player can get to the basket in some facet (post up, iso, pick and roll, etc). I just don't know how OKC can keep this series close with Perkins/Collison and a very raw Adams protecting the rim. I'm not sure getting 60 out of Durant/Westbrook will get them much better than a 50% chance of winning any single game.
SA and Miami 2 should be a good one, though I hope i'm wrong and its Indy.
Would love for Cuban to uncover something substantial by the way.
who says you can't graze the ball in a fraction of a second? .1 is certainly quick but he barely touched the ball. If it shouldn't count then they should change the rule and just not have the ball inbounded under whatever time them deem unfit.
but unless it goes off of the very top of your finger tips while barely touching them you're not getting a tip in .1 seconds. Then they showed the slow mo and it was pretty clear theres no way he could do what he did in the matter of .1 seconds
no way to tell if his hand was still on the ball unless they showed it from another angle after I changed channels.
And I though the rule was that you can't get a shot of under .3 seconds, not a tip. He never released the ball, he tapped it, therefor it isn't a under the same rule, IMO. If he held the ball if be fine waiving it off be it basically slapped it.
Grabbing every offensive board, occupying space and creating rebounding lanes for others. Miami just has nothing to match up. The best matchup defensively is haslem but hibbert will park in the paint on defense against him and give him his 18 foot baseline shot, screws up offensive spacing. If miami could seal stops in this half with defensive boards, theyd be up double digits. Indy on pace for 20 offensive boards tonight
lebron gets a "d" grade offensively in that half. Would have given him an "a" grade defensively before the halftime buzzer beater. They wereconcerned about hibbert on that play but he should have put himself in position to recover there
I dont have a great feeling about this game from a miami standpoint nd the way the battle of the boards is unfolding. But on the flipside lebron hssnt played well and theyre up 4. Also the last 2 and a half games from wade are very encouraging
bosh is chronically invisible against indy in the playoffs.
for Indiana. Miami still can win the series if they lose tonight. If Indiana loses, they are pretty much done imo. I don't think they can win a game in Miami
has been absolutely pathetic. A bad double leading to a 3, loses james for a layup, now double teams for no reason, and leaves James for a lane to the basket.
I go up to Paul George after the game and basically say.... Listen fucknut, stop celebrating after every shot, stop crying for every call, and stop thinking you are some king shit. Until you beat Miami, you are just another notch in their belt.
Paul George, apologize to your teammates after this game.
I don't see why Indiana - which is a much better team than Brooklyn - can't do the same.
Lebron got away with a blatant foul on that "steal" at the top of the key. Hacked George's forearm. Indy still deserved to lose regardless...closing the 4th just like the Nets. Great game from Wade and Birdman.
the Nets had zero chance to win the game down the stretch of that game. I don't think a team "kept it close" if they had zero chance to win the game down the stretch
this is the best 3 game stretch wade has put together in postseason
In a couple years. Very encouraging sign if youre miami, although he did get banged up late but stayed in and had two dunks after the knee collision, hope nothing swells up. His plus minus may not show it tonight, but he was big
lebron was terrific in the 2nd half in all facets, but miami won this game on the defensive end. They came with urgency tonight, and if they didnt get crushed on the offensive boards, the pacers probably struggle to score 70 tonight. But thats going to be an issue all series. Miami did do a much better job on the boards in that 2nd half though. This was just a huge win. Lebron and wade either scored or assisted on every point in that 4th. They took it over.
game 3 isnt until saturday. Long ass wait. Miami did what they had to do, but indy is more than capable of stealing home court back. This is just a rough matchup. Im beyond sick of roy hibbert bringing his magic fairy dust each time he sees the miami frontcourt and going off
the Nets kept it close down to the wire in game 5. Why can't Indiana do the same and steal one? George and West played poorly tonight and doubtful Birdman rebounds like Bill Russell again.
Indiana is crazy streak but capable of quality ball.
Said he blacked out after the collision with wade. This is one area where the nfl and nba are very different. The nba isnt as conscious yetvabout the whole deal and dont havethe hyper sensitivity a lot of nfl teams have. You see guys get clearly concussed all the time and stay in. Hibbert did it the last reg season meeting at indy vs miami. George will play game 3. The notion of him missing a week or two seems highly unlikely. You would be stunned if he missed game 3. Not saying that makes him tougher or anything.
gets more hate than he deserves, but I can't believe his first response in the press conference was about not being able to get to the line and commenting that he'll review the plays to see if they got fouled. His team lost by 35 points. The idea that his major comment was a concern over the officiating is embarrassing.
But this ibaka loss is a killer in a multitude of ways. They are just getting bloodied in the paint, gave up an unfathomable 66 paint points in game 1. Thats forcing all these weird lineups to stop the bleeding where youre even playing adams and perk together for stretches to get size out there, and killing your own offensive spacing. They still gave up a load of paint points anyway. And danny green is literally knocking down every single open three when they collapse on the interior. He is in another one of those out of body experiences
I think the spurs are the best team. Theyre certainly beatable, but okc minus serge is not the team. We are probably headed for a finals rematch. And without burying indy yet, its the one most people want to see. Without getting too ahead of ourselves, I think bosh is the key to that series. If we are constantly referring to him as a future hof, is it asking too much for him to not get completely destroyed by 38 year old duncan? Prior to last years finals he had actually performed very well against timmy in his career, but really got crushed over those 7 games, didnt even score in game 7. If that matchup is anywhere near a standstill miami will threepeat. Of course there are tons of other factors, but my extremely early and lazy thoughts there surround that matchup
bosh has to show against indy first though, hasnt done that
The next talking head that tells me the spurs dont get enough credit needs to get shot in the fucking face. Im so sick of hearing that every fucking day for almost two god damn decades now. No exaggeration, if I actually had just a nickel for every time ive heard or read that, I could probably buy their team. You cant be underrated when youre called underrated gy everyone. If anything this team gets the easiest, most cozy, least critical media treatment of any dynasty ever
im so fucking sick of them. Id even hold my nose and pull for indiana if it came downto it.
$700,000,000/.5 = 1,400,000,000 times. Damn if you're really not exaggerating, I can understand your frustration.
They garner less criticism because they:
a) are the 3rd city in their state, let alone the country
b) feature a modest and non-controversial superstar
c) are a legit dynasty with few hiccups thus the lavish praise is merited
Their coach is also arguably the best in the NBA and (unlike, say, the Heat) most of their key players were drafted by them which makes them extra interesting and special since they were "built" instead of thrown together.
Theyve lost more series with homecourt advantage than any team in virtually any era. Including being knocked out in an 8 v 1. Theyve never repeated in a league where its common. Their best player is never ever the subject of any critical microscope, ever. They gloss over the bad and have a circle jerk where they boast his underratedness. Even when hes failing miserably from a leadership standpoint as the frontman and torch carrier for usa basketball, People associate more blame with the 04 olympic team on lebron, and he was a teenager who didnt even start.
Poppovich is a great coach but a jackass, and at this point is a caricature of himself with the media. His jackassery hits a different level of douchiness when hes now at a point where much of it is manufactured to play into the celebrated character he has become.
I couldnt give two shits about whether they drafted their players when the piece that put everything in motion was a huge stroke of lotto luck on a teamthat was already title contenders because of a previous huge stroke of lotto luck. They were way ahead of the curve on international talent at the turn of the century, but I dont know how that makes them more likeable unless you root for froht offices
But all of this is besides the point. Stop telling me they dont get enough credit. If anything, they dont get enough criticism.
Are in the business of downgrading accomplishments because of perceived luck, I suppose you asterisk these last two playoff runs because of huge injuries in the playoffs sustained by a team that gave them fits healthy. Avoiding okc because of westbrook last year and the ibaka injury this year, huge breaks.
But that doesnt fit into the warm and fuzzy spurs narrative everyone bends over backwards to cultivate
Shaq was on the tail end of being the 2nd or 3rd most dominant player in NBA history back in 04. Kobe/Pau's Lakers and prime Dirk + Stack/Terry...these are not slouch teams. The West has been mostly stacked for Duncan's entire NBA career.
Regardless, again...it's San Antonio. It's the 7th biggest city in America and probably 50th on a list of those the average American would want to visit. So it stands to reason it and its teams (sorry, team) get less attention. Sort of akin to the Cardinals who quietly have been one of the premier franchises in baseball. But it's all Yankees, Red Sox, and even the fucking Cubs before St Louis.
for entertainment value alone. Still think it'd be SA in 6 with how they're playing.
The narrative also spawns from the age of their players and how long they've been together. It's an interesting story. Compounded by the smallish (rep-wise) city they hail from.
Is absolutely a fair distinction to draw between them and runs of comparable success. This is a league where repeats happen frequently. And in none of their title defense years have they even lost to the eventual champ. The only year you can say is unfair to come at them with was 00 when duncan was hurt
to win 5 titles (if they win this year) without ever repeating than it is to win 5 in a row and then never win another over the next decade to be honest. Winning 5 over a 15 year period with your superstar aging shows just how great the organization is.
Its more impressive longevity, but in terms of peak greatness its a definite knock. Only thing tougher than winning a title is defending it, and theyve never done that successfully. They never had a prolonged stretch where they sat unquestionably on the throne.Greatest regular season dynasty of all time. Not in the top 4 if youre just going postseason for an era, even if they get a 5th
only defined as consecutive titles? What if they don't lose the rest of the playoffs (no happening, but for arguments sake). Would that not be dominant? It would go down is one if the more impressive things in modern sports history, if not, the most.
these Spurs teams are a lot like recent Pats teams
they are an absolute machine and look so ruthlessly efficient when they're on. But just like the recent Pats teams, the Spurs are still vulnerable to getting punched in the mouth and bullied by more physically gifted and tougher opponents.
But there's no team right now that looks talented enough to put the Spurs in their place this year. Miami could beat them but that's only because LeBron is a legend and Wade is a legend every now and then.
Ibaka was a bigger loss than I originally thought and I thought he was a big loss. I predicted SAS in 6 and it was a hard 6, closer to 7 than 5. After these first 2 games I feel like it's closer a hard 5, but even that might be optimistic for the Thunder. Game 3 is the most important game of the year for the Thunder. Kevin Durant and the OKC bench need to go apeshit if they want to beat the Spurs.
Tim Duncan > Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Dirk, Garnett
Best player of the post-Jordan era. Shaq's peak is really hard to go against and I'm 50/50 on Duncan vs. Shaq for that reason. But Duncan's all-around game and longevity gives him the slight edge imo. LeBron looks "on pace" to have a greater career than Duncan, but he's not there yet. And if Duncan and the Spurs defeat the Heat in the Finals, it'll be really tough for me to rank LeBron over Duncan anytime soon.
Dirk (and he's my favorite non-Net ever) and KG, obviously. Kobe it's close. Lebron is too green to compare to a 38 y/o.
But I can't agree on Shaq. Prime Shaq is as dominant a player as this league has seen. If you want to put heavy emphasis on the "longevity" factor then Duncan is clearly in the discussion, but Shaq was simply on another level, warts (free throws) and all. Although boring as fuck to watch.
in comparing them to teams with equivalent playoff success
I absolutely find their run less impressive. Not only never repeating, but never in a title defense season did the road to a title even go through them. They never owned a distinct period in time where they were top dog
cant put them ahead of russells celts for obvious reasons
cant put them with jordans bulls even if the bulls had lost in 98
and they take a backseat to both 5 title eras as well in my view even if they match them. Theyre not magics lakers who went to 9 finals, once 4 consecutively. Had a repeat, and for the better part of over a decade they either won the title every year or the champion had to go through them to do it. The spurs have never reached that status impact wise. Not even close.
Id put them behind the kobe era lakers too. Not saying kobe is better than duncan, and I hesitate to call it the kobe era because he was a sidekick for much of it. But 5 titles and 7 finals trips in 11 years. Outside of the 3 year window post shaq and pre pau they either won the title every year, or the champ went through them. Had two separate conference threepeats. A three peat champion and repeat champion, and a space of history that was distinctly theirs
when we are comparing greatness at that level, there is something to be said for defending whats yours, and rising above to reclaim it. Something to be said for having a lock on the league so strong, that everyone perenially knows for a period of time that youre gonna win the title or someone is going to need to go through you to do it. Thats why id have all those runs over the spurs
his longevity is amazing though. Shaq didnt match it and who knows with lebron.
And from a supporting cast perspective he was born rich and will die rich. Entered the most favorable situation this side of magic. Exiting on a team that could baby his minutes load and responsibilities and still contend. If the spurs do win the title this year he would be the worst best player on a title team in at least 10 years, if you consider him their best player still, and I do. If people want to nitpick with his cast for a couple years as they were transitioning from the old 90s era spurs holdovers to the young euros, fine. But for the better part of two decades he has had contention level casts
Dirk (and he's my favorite non-Net ever) and KG, obviously. Kobe it's close. Lebron is too green to compare to a 38 y/o.
But I can't agree on Shaq. Prime Shaq is as dominant a player as this league has seen. If you want to put heavy emphasis on the "longevity" factor then Duncan is clearly in the discussion, but Shaq was simply on another level, warts (free throws) and all. Although boring as fuck to watch.
Like you said, we could go on for a while about how those guys I mentioned rank. Just my reasoning for Duncan over Shaq...
Like I said I was 50/50 on Shaq vs. Duncan. Over the past several years I've flip flopped on who I rank higher. Shaq is one of a handful of players who I could argue had the GOAT peak, Duncan isn't in that argument. That's a huge check mark next to Shaq's name that Duncan doesn't have. A check mark so big that I can't really argue too much if that's your basis for choosing Shaq.
But Duncan's peak was pretty damn filthy himself. The issue with Duncan is that he wasn't an "A+" scorer even at his peak. But he always made such a complete impact. Go back and watch the closeout game clinics he put up in 2003 against the Lakers (with prime Shaq and Kobe) and the Nets.
2003 Tim Duncan is one of the greatest players in NBA history. Not quite GOAT but right on that next level with a bunch of legends. IMO, that's a close enough peak to 2000 Shaq for me to lean Duncan based on longevity. 37 year old Duncan is the team MVP of the best team in basketball, 37 year old Shaq was an absolute afterthought on the 2010 Cavs. I bet most people don't even realize he was on that Cavs team.
Shaq's peak was so epic I'm not going to argue to death with you, but I'd lean Duncan. Most underappreciated American athlete in recent history.
Every player who has a handful of rings or close to it was at one time blessed. Not holding it against him, but its rarely brought up with him. He hit the double jackpot by not only landing in a contention ready spot from day 1, but also having a generational advantage in the front office with a group that was miles ahead of everyone on international scouting, helped them bridge the gap. There was still a hesitence about international prospects and they were grabbing hall of fame caliber talent like parker and manu way down in the draft, because they were progressive enough to move past the stale reservations of other teams. This allowed them to rebuild while still being good, something very hard to do in the nba. And its not just limited to foreign talent because the leonard move was amazing, and opened another closing window
if duncan gets his 5th its no doubt a big deal. But lets just be real whats happehing here... he is post prime and his loaded team had the best record in the nba with him playing shy of 30 minutes a night. He is in an incredible situation.
Duncan's widely regarded as the best PF ever (even though he's really a center). SA was always a thorn in our side. If SA wasn't in the picture, I imagine the Lakers winning in 2003they would have smoked Dallas and New Jersey had they advanced. If Kobe didn't shoot the Lakers out of the Finals against the Pistons, we're potentially talking 5 rings in a row.
Duncan's first ring. Duncan was. Admiral was still a force on the glass on on D (twin towers and all...) but Duncan was scoring the points. Ditto his 2nd ring (as a huge Kidd fan I remember all too well...Duncan was absurdly dominant). By the most recent 2, Parker & Ginobili were in full force, but Duncan was still their most important player. Parker is now, but that's because Duncan is almost 40. (And I don't know that the Spurs are "loaded" now. The word for them is balanced).
I just don't buy your point. It's like arguing the Devils were so consistently great "in part" because of Brodeur, but also because he was drafted into a good situation with a dynamite GM. Yes, those two things are true, like they are for the Spurs, but the Devils won Stanley Cups because of Brodeur.
duncan was the driving force on all their title teams
I never said otherwise. But why act like playing with david robinson and a nucleus that had contended without duncan before an injury plagued season was anything other than one of the most advantageous situations to walk into of all time. Not even arguable. And his exit stage has gone just as ridiculoudly swimmingly. For the better part of 18 seasons, there has been little to no waste when it comes to surrounding him with contention level casts. It has been an incredible situation for him. If only every great player was so consistently fortunate.
we all love the guy as a player, but he's never really struggled as far as a "nucleus". Began next to Shaq and nice players like Jones, Rice, Van Exel, Fox. Then Pau/Odom.
Even Jordan, not a great situation to begin with but soon came Pippen, Grant, BJ, then later Rodman (could you imagine the Heat if they had a player like Rodman?), Kerr, Kukoc. Definite nucleus.
Magic as you mentioned is a no brainer.
If you want to argue Lebron in Cleveland...agreed. But he couldn't get it done there so he split right quick.
Who both basically wasted the better part of 6 to 7 years on teams who were highly flawed even though they were more than capable of leading. Duncans window opened as soon as his name was called on draft night. Most top picks arent going to contention ready veteran teams who happened to have a year of down injury luck. More often, in lebrons case, theyre going to terrible organizations with a roster populated by 21 year old knuckeheads. And when a lebron exceeds expectations and gets his team in position to win a bunch of games, most guys arent gifted with front offices who can find you hall of fame talent like parker and manu in late round 1 and beyond. Or grab a guy like leonard from assets you created out of thin air. His team basically got him a 15 plus year window start to finish, zero waste
If you cant see the difference there I dont know what to tell you.
Duncan is an amazing player. This era of spurs basketball doesnt happen without him. But its hard to maximize your window around your superstar as much as this team has, and hes a big beneficiary from it. Hes contending in his 17th year with a scaled back offensive role and a minutes restriction, and we'll be ring counting in relation to lebron legacy wise dependent on this years finals result, as if their situations and roles are comparable at this point at all. This run in particular says a lot more about their organizational greatness than it does duncans legacy. Im not putting duncan ahead of anyone on an all time list that I dont already have him ahead of based off this years finals result
for 30/15 and wins another title... I cant put him over guys like Jordan, Magic, Lebron, Wilt, Kareem. They are my top 5 ever. Guys like Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kobe, Russell come after. And depending on the day, the order will change.
Who both basically wasted the better part of 6 to 7 years on teams who were highly flawed even though they were more than capable of leading. Duncans window opened as soon as his name was called on draft night. Most top picks arent going to contention ready veteran teams who happened to have a year of down injury luck. More often, in lebrons case, theyre going to terrible organizations with a roster populated by 21 year old knuckeheads. And when a lebron exceeds expectations and gets his team in position to win a bunch of games, most guys arent gifted with front offices who can find you hall of fame talent like parker and manu in late round 1 and beyond. Or grab a guy like leonard from assets you created out of thin air. His team basically got him a 15 plus year window start to finish, zero waste
When you put it that way, it corroborates the position that the Spurs don't get enough credit. How many franchises in all of sports can accrue and maintain the level of talent they have despite picking late in the draft nearly every year for well over a decade? It's a feat that can't be lauded enough.
Peak/prime and career in totality. And when marrying the two, im always more impressed by level of greatness at the apex than longevity, at least personally, and so long as the longevity is close
judging only players I saw the entire career of, I cant put duncan at his best ahead of jordan, shaq, lebron or even hakeem olajuwon. I might have his prime 5th among just guys I lived through. Career wise he is arguably 2nd
Its very impressive. But the they dont get enough credit mantra is a form of credit in itself, and I hear it daily. Its tough to be underrated when underrated has basically become your last name
I have an irrational hatred of them and it is what it is. A lot of what I say comes from that place and im fine admitting it. I absolutely fear that im a few weeks away from kick to the nuts, and it pisses me off
I think the fact that he spent 4 years at college and graduated AND played in the NBA at a high level for 17 years is crazy. A lot of people forget that he stayed in college and got his degree. The ironic part is that him staying in college longer almost certainly lengthened his career because he landed himself in a fucking beautiful position. He got taken care of both roster wise and physically. A lot of shitty organizations/coaches would have shit the bed and gassed him out years ago.
the Spurs are the best sports organization in America right now. It's like they finally found a way to bring "Duke" to the NBA. Popovich is just a brilliant coach and that front office has been ahead of the curve with international signings and corner 3 usage. I love how the Spurs owned the D'Antoni Suns but then took some principles from the D'Antoni Suns because they realized that's what the future of the league was. Pop and the Spurs know how to adapt and stay one step ahead of the league.
But so much of that relies on the fact that Tim Duncan is such a versatile and complete two-way centerpiece who can adapt and fill whatever role the team needs.
And my answer to the "He had unreal organizational help" is this...
The 2003 Spurs were the greatest one man carry job in modern NBA history.
People went gaga over Dirk doing what he did in 2011, but he had Chandler to play the role of defensive MVP. Duncan was making the same offensive impact Dirk was, and he was also making a far greater defensive impact than Chandler was. Duncan led that Spurs team in every single category during that run. That team had names like Parker, Robinson, Manu, and Jackson but none of those guys were playing well. Duncan put that team on his back and beasted in the playoffs, knocked off the 3x defending Champ Lakers with an epic Game 6 beatdown. And then he caps off the season with a damn near Quadruple Double in a very slow paced series. It was a one man demolition of the league with a cast that wasn't far from LeBron's Cavs casts in terms of support.
So he has already proven that he can carry a garbage cast to the promised land. I don't know what better answer there is to "he always had help". He has taken advantage of the help he has gotten with the Spurs and 2014 Duncan isn't nearly as important to the team as 2003 Duncan. But he is still the MVP of that team at 37.
He is absolutely underappreciated...
Jordan
Magic
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
LeBron
Those are the only players since like 1980 that you could truly argue were greater than Duncan. All 6 of those players were America's most talked about athlete at one point in their careers. Tim Duncan didn't even come close to that kind of appreciation and IMO he has had a better career than every player on that list outside of Jordan and maybe Magic and Shaq.
Than he Was a few years ago. He was clearly showing bigtime slippage and then lost a bunch of weight and got over a chronic knee issue. Now hes playing on a level that is close to his prime on a per minute basis
he also deserves his share of credit for the flexibility the organization has had by taking less money on his most recent extension. Could have gone the kobe route
sure, they didn't have a bonafied #2 guy that could get you 20 on any given night since David Robinson was on his very last legs at the time. They did have a good supporting cast. Tony Parker was in his 2nd year, and Manu was a rookie. The rest of the league did not know exactly how good those guys were and would become. Both provided the Spurs with guys that could slash to the basket and create their own shots. Stephen Jackson was a gem of a find as well, and Bruce Bowen carved out a nice niche as a dirty savvy perimeter defender who could space the floor with the 3. Between Jackson, Ginobilli, Steve Kerr, Bowen, and Steve Smith all were able to provide the floor spacing with their 3 point shooting for Duncan to have room to operate in the paint. Of course, none of that would work without Duncan. That was a very well built team that shocked my Lakers in the playoffs. That team fucked our chances at getting 4 in a row.
On the historic awfulness of the 03 spurs cast. They lacked an efficient 2nd scorer offensively, but in that laker series they couldnt miss a 3 as a team. Shot 47 perecent from downtown. Bowen was 17 for 26. Sure duncans presence created those oppurtunities, but they crushed it. Shoot That well in a series and you will always have a shot. I cant fathom any lebron cav team rising up like that in a series against that level of comp. They were also loaded on defense with a still capable anchor like drob playing on a plus .200 ws 48 level in the playoffs. The best perimeter defender in the game in bowen, added to duncans presence made them a bitch to operate against
Sure they were absolutely weak by title winning cast standards, but this wasnt the cavs.
sure, they didn't have a bonafied #2 guy that could get you 20 on any given night since David Robinson was on his very last legs at the time. They did have a good supporting cast. Tony Parker was in his 2nd year, and Manu was a rookie. The rest of the league did not know exactly how good those guys were and would become. Both provided the Spurs with guys that could slash to the basket and create their own shots. Stephen Jackson was a gem of a find as well, and Bruce Bowen carved out a nice niche as a dirty savvy perimeter defender who could space the floor with the 3. Between Jackson, Ginobilli, Steve Kerr, Bowen, and Steve Smith all were able to provide the floor spacing with their 3 point shooting for Duncan to have room to operate in the paint. Of course, none of that would work without Duncan. That was a very well built team that shocked my Lakers in the playoffs. That team fucked our chances at getting 4 in a row.
You can convince yourself that team was good because they knocked off your Lakers, but that all about the Tim Duncan Show baby. In a series that included prime Shaq and prime Kobe, Tim Duncan was the undisputed best player on the floor. And it's not like Kobe/Shaq played poorly, they both played at a ridiculous level but Duncan was just better. Sure he had help and guys with 3s and played D.
I don't think they're a garbage cast compared to the average NBA supporting cast. But compared to the casts of NBA Champions, it was absolutely weak as fhhuuck. Their entire offense was "Duncan... and pray someone else is hot for a few games". Their entire defense was based on Duncan and Bowen being studs. Robinson could still D up but was a shadow of his former self at that point.
I'd argue Hakeem's first 12 years were just as consistent as Tim's
Yes, Bowen and Manu went crazy from 3 in the Lakers series. But they were cold from deep besides that in the playoffs. For the entirety of that playoff run the only offensive option was Tim Duncan. Go back and name me the teams in NBA history who won a title with #2 and #3 scoring options who played as poorly as the Spurs' did. Here's a little hint... there aren't any.
And that's just the offense. Duncan was a better defensive player than offensive player. He definitely had more help defensively with Bowen and old man Robinson, but he was clearly the anchor of that defense.
It's crazy when you read the names on the roster, it seems like a pretty loaded team. But when you realized where all those guys were in the year 2003, it become clearer exactly how much of a one man show that Championship really was. I'd say they were a little bit more talented than the '09/'10 Cavs but not by that much.
No one player did more for a Championship team in the playoffs than Tim Duncan did in 2003. More than anything that's my main point. Prove me wrong.
T duncan couldnt win with less than many other guys. He certainly could. Im just saying he has been largely blessed. His 03 run was definitely a carry job, but a lot like hakeem 94 I think the road to a title also made that possible. The lakers were by far the biggest obstacle talent wise, but we could see the cracks with them that year, shaq was dinged and out of shape much of the year. Their depth rivaled okc without ibaka, which is why they revamped that offseason and made the payton and malone splashes.. And they were battling the general fatigue of a team with that many consecutive deep runs, and the mental and physical toll that comes with it. They struggled to win 50 games that year
I dont think there are many years where the 03 spurs win titles.
until later in his career. He literally struggled to pass out of double teams throughout during his 20s. It wasn't until Tomjanovich became coach in '93 that Hakeem really developed into a truly great offensive force. He finally learned how to pass out of doubles and that became the foundation of the Rockets' '94/'95 Championship offenses. Hakeem would go to work and then kick it out to killer shooters when he was doubled.
But by this time he was entering his 30s and losing his defensive form. Hakeem's defensive prime and offensive prime only overlapped for 3 years, '93-'95. And quite honestly he wasn't even the same on defense in '95. And for a lot of his 20s he was a bit of a hothead and was far from a team leader. It wasn't until he found Islam that he became a true leader.
Tim Duncan was a leader from Day 1 and he knew how to pass from Day 1. That's a big difference between these two and why I'd lean Duncan AS A ROCKETS FAN. Peak, I'd go Hakeem but again I'm taking both peak and longevity into account.
up in the playoffs, even in his 20s. His offense in the playoffs was always ridiculous. But he didn't develop into a truly great offensive hub until '93.
Osi, hope I'm not coming off as a detractor of Duncan
he's definitely the main cog that makes the machine go and his presence most certainly creates opportunities for the other guys. Not having a 20 point scorer wasn't a big deal IMO when Parker and Ginobilli were starting to scratch the surface. Spurs also had more big bodies to throw at Shaq. Lakers had no answers past Shaq to matchup with Duncan, unless anybody out there thinks Horry, Samaki Walker, Mark Madsen, or Slava Medvedenko can competently do anything on either side of the ball to slow Duncan down. Without Duncan, those Spurs teams are going straight to the lottery, but it seemed like they had a roster where everyone knew what their specific role was on the court.
But it also spoke on the 94 nba when the team he meets in the finals was just as flawed as his. And he avoids his biggest western rival in seattle who absolutely owned his rockets in the reg season and playoffs in that era, but denver shocked the world for him. All the while the best player on the planet is playing another sport. When a guy does win a chip with lesser talent around him, it also speaks on the strength of the leagues top dogs. You could also say the same about miami last year winning even while wade and bosh had terrible playoffs. The road is different every year. That heat team doesnt win this year with those same efforts
That year the Spurs won was the year Shaq held off on toe surgery
that particular team had major complacency issues, which I imagine is pretty common when you're coming off of a 3 peat. Shaq was definitely starting to show some slippage from a physical standpoint if you really were looking for it. As bad as LA's supporting cast was that season, if Shaq showed up as motivated as he did in 2006 when he went to Miami, I have no doubt the Lakers would have had a more competitive showing against San Antonio.
I know that his 2003 Spurs cast wasn't horrific. They had some young talent who would grow into primetime contributors. They also had a defensive system led by the best interior defender in the league and the best perimeter defender in the league. Take a look at the Pacers with Hibbert/George. Duncan/Bowen had a similar impact, and with a better defensive big rotation behind them led by Robinson. But offensively that team was junk in the playoffs. Sure Parker and Manu could drive and their team could get hot from 3, but that offense was entirely based on Tim Duncan. It wasn't a solid supporting cast in general but it was a garbage supporting cast for an NBA Champion imo. Again, name me a supporting cast who did less in the playoffs.
I wrote a shitload of words here tonight, but at the end of the day these are my thoughts...
- Duncan's peak isn't considered to be on the same level as Shaq's or Hakeem's or LeBron's
- Duncan's peak season was 2003
- 2003 Tim Duncan had the Most Valuable Playoff Run in NBA History for a Champion
- Most Valuable Playoff Run in NBA History = Not many peaks better
- Peak isn't the only thing that matters either, longevity matters too
- At the age of 37, Duncan is the MVP of the best team in basketball
- Not many better when it comes to Peak + Longevity
No more Duncan talk for me atleast until the Finals. Just paying my respects to an absolute boss of an athlete.
is that they are absolutely abusing Hibbert on defense. Yes he can protect the rim, but he cannot defend the pick and roll. Miami scored on 5 straight possessions using him in the pick and roll.
This is why Hibbert defense is not as good as guys like Gasol or Noah. They can defend the pick and roll so much better than Hibbert does.
Preparing himself physically to peak for basically two playoff series. And right now, all the kid gloves are paying off. If he can keep this up through the finals (I still have my doubts, but this is very encouraging), theyre gonna threepeat. He is a completely different player than he was at this time last year in the playoffs. He has now strung together 4 excellent games in a row. He didnt have 4 total games on that level in the entire 2013 playoffs.
Miami is playing their best ball of the season right now. 10-2 in the playoffs, unbeaten at home. Having wade in the lineup every single night has been huge from a rhythm and cohesion standpoint. Big difference from the regular season when he would rarely play more than 4 or 5 in a row on his maintenance program, in addition to like 23 different starting lineups this year. A consistent rotation here in the playoffs and theyre really clicking
Bosh is just having a pathetic series. He just cant perform against this team. They can beat indiana without much from him. But at some point he needs to get his head out of his ass.
judging by the play where lebron started to "cramp"
And the ensuing reaction, id be mildly concerned that he might have tweaked a hammy. Otherwise a perfect night for miami though after a terrible start. They can put the choke hold on monday night
being able to guard West in the 4th made a big difference last night. He's struggled with West in the past at times, but last night West didn't do anything, maybe because Indy didn't go to him enough.
West guards Allen. Allen gets tons of wide open 3's. Miami wins the mismatch game and blows out the Pacers in the 4th.
Despite that, I do think overall that LeBron has passed his peak on the defensive end. He's not quite as quick as was a few years ago and definitely can't bring the same intensity for as long as he used to.
Spoelstra is doing well with having some flexibility in his rotations, which is something a lot of NBA teams don't do that often. Cole over Chalmers when he's playing well. Lewis over Battier last night. Mixing in the right amounts of Birdman and Haslem. The one thing he's never really figured out is how to maximize Bosh, but maybe it's not that important. There are times though when it would help them if Bosh could take over a quarter when he has a good matchup, but it rarely happens.
Ibaka is back, but could not walk until 48 hours ago, so who knows what he has. At minimum it should be a short term emotional lift though. Reggie jackson also replaces sefolosha in the starting lineup, so theyll have a bunch more offense on the floor. I like the move, but they are leaving themselves thin on the bench where they already get little. And the spurs second unit play is consistently their biggest edge. Brooks will have to stagger their minutes to avoid annihilation at those points in the game. I hate when they have lineups out there that have durant and russ off the floor at the same time. That shouldnt happen that often in the playoffs.
Was a 22 to 0 ft edge in the 3rd. But if you watch and rewatch that action, there wasnt a ticky tack foul in the bunch to put okc on the line. Only possible exception was one against belinelli when trying to deny durant the ball 25 feet out. Okc was just more aggressive. The sign of a well officiated game isnt necessarily an equal number of ft attempts. Sometimes, one team deserves twice as many
ibaka gave okc more last night then you could have ever dreamed. Huge difference on both ends. Theyve won 8 straight now at home vs sa. And unless the spurs can find a way tomorrow to somehow take one at a place that has been a house of horrors, this is going to be a long series
Miami can choke indy out tonight. Its about time bosh shows up against the pacers. Hes now gone 7 straight playoff games against them without scoring double digits. Thats just unfathomable.
when a guy pump fakes and creates contact? its the most annoying call in the game... they blatantly changed the rule and still dont call it correctly. Wade gets like 4 pts a game on it. at no point does he take a natural straight up jump shot when doing so.
why change the rule?
like he's arrived... he should play like he isnt sh%t yet... makes too many lazy dumb passes. like his sh%t dont stink.
really poor, and i like him as a player, but the more they go through him the worse it gets.
Nets put up a much better performance then these guys
has attempted 6 one handed bounce passes. 4 turnovers and 2 tipped. He has 5 turnovers already. And Lebron is dominating him. He has scored some points, but he really hasnt stepped up. And Hibbert is a complete no show.
He now has more 25-5-5 games in the playoffs than anyone ever. Passed jordan tonight. Hes not even 30 years old yet. No one else is even within 20 of him, I think bird was 3rd with like 53 if I recall
he also had a 30-10-5 tonight which extends his already record total.
Some time during the finals lebron will go over the 1,000 assist mark in the playoffs. He will become the only player in nba history to have 4,000 playoff points, and 1,000 rebounds and 1,000 assists in postseason play. Again, all this before his 30th birthday
this is one of the most amazing playoff performers evet, was true before he ever won a ring. And right now he is in the midst of arguably his best playoff run. This is just incredible efficiency. If he caps this off with a threepeat and spearheading the best 4 year team run since russells celts, we are very arguably talking about the GOAT pre 30 year old career
Said he thought the Pacers outplayed the Heat tonight.
At no point in the game were they even in it. He is looking at a stat sheet and saying they only lost cuz of the free throw line and they outplayed them on the court.
Today was the 30th game in his playoff career where he has outright led his team in points, rebounds and assists. Thats more than double as many as the next closest guy, which was larry bird who did that 13 times
Today was the 30th game in his playoff career where he has outright led his team in points, rebounds and assists. Thats more than double as many as the next closest guy, which was larry bird who did that 13 times
That's incredibly impressive. And he is also the best defensive player on the floor for his team on top of it.
I bestowed the virtues of Tim Duncan above and I still believe he has had the best career of a player since MJ. But there's no doubt that LeBron is on pace to pass Duncan and make a real run at Jordan over these next 5 years. Just a special athlete.
All this talk from Stephenson and George has been annoying. The Pacers have had a 2 year run as the Heat's primary rival in the East. But I hope it's another team's turn to be the Heat's biggest challenge out East next year.
Hibbert sulking on the bench every time he has a bad game...
West crying to the official after every single call against him...he swears he has never committed a foul in his life...
I just dont like George everyone anointed him at the beginning of the year and i just dont see it...he is a good young player and obviously has a lot of room to grow but i just dont see that guy thats going to step up on a consistent basis and take over games like you need your star player to do...
Stephenson is just punk...he talks endless shit when he is playing bad and then like last night blames it on other people when his shit talk gets thrown back into his face...
but one can't help but wish he played in a tougher atmosphere so he could shine against teams that aren't utter garbage. Rose's Bulls would have been the perfect rivalry. Despite their flash last season when Hibbert was getting away with murder, the Pacers are a streaky mess and clearly not even a threat to this Miami team with how the Heat are playing.
Not an exaggeration to posit that possibly the 8th and certainly the 7th seed in the West is better than any non-Heat team in the East. Zach Randolph is a player that could give Miami fits but he's too busy dealing with the gauntlet in the West.
It's kind of a bummer in a way. We are all robbed of what would be much more compelling contests. Think of how awesome the Jordan vs Isiah series were. We get none of that in the East these days. SFGF said it earlier: "wake me up when it's Heat/Spurs."
You gotta wonder if Jordan would have started compiling rings earlier if he had as soft an EC as Lebron, instead of Isiah, Bird, Shaq, etc. Almost certainly a factor during "The Decision" was not playing in the West.
I just hope that this is a wake up call to the Bulls
to NOT sign Stephenson. Wouldn't mind him as a 3rd option, but absolutely under no circumstances should he be our big FA move and be slotted as our primary scorer (or secondary depending on how you view Rose).
RE: I just hope that this is a wake up call to the Bulls
to NOT sign Stephenson. Wouldn't mind him as a 3rd option, but absolutely under no circumstances should he be our big FA move and be slotted as our primary scorer (or secondary depending on how you view Rose).
Couldn't say it better myself.
Bulls have to go all out for Melo or Love. They need a scorer.
and I agree about Derrick Rose's injury hurting the NBA. There were only 5 teams with a realistic shot at the title this year, maybe only 3 (MIA, SAS, OKC) if you have high standards for the word "contender". The Bulls with Rose would've absolutely been a Top 6 team in that mix along with the Clippers and Pacers. Derrick Rose's injuries have sucked.
But 4 straight NBA Finals appearances is impressive no matter what the competition is. Magic Johnson's Lakers played in an absolutely pathetic Western Conference in the 80s, which is why they always made it to the Finals. I don't see too many people bring that up to lessen Magic's resume.
get less heat. Less footage, less news, less people that have even seen those games (myself included). I'd probably be overly critical of Magic too had I grown up back then.
But yeah, the Rose injuries have just been dreadful. Taking my fandom out of it, he was electric and one of the few must see stars the NBA had. There are a few more now with Curry, Griffen, etc, but still don't think its on the same level as what it was with Rose, and that even had potential to grow.
I'm just saying that with how high Lebron is peaking right now, it'd be nice to see him against some actual competition. That LAC/GS series was a million times more interesting and that was Rnd 1.
The blowouts, yes, are in part due to how good the Heat are. But the trash they're facing doesn't hurt either.
about wanting to see LeBron go up against better competition. It's definitely disappointing that the East has nothing that can challenge Miami. The NBA Playoffs would've been so much better this year if it were a 1-16 playoff tournament with teams from both conferences. The East's lack of talent made this a breeze for Miami.
But it's still been fun watching LeBron play like this. 28.8 PPG on .573 FG shooting in these playoffs for LeBron. That kind of efficiency is unheard of in the playoffs. And obviously there is so much more to LeBron than scoring the basketball.
with no lopez, Dwill doing a raymond felton impersonation, and the corpse of KG were the best comp in the east for the heat. and frankly its not even close so far. if the nets had some semblance of offense in the last 4 minutes that series easily goes 6 and possibly 7. nets still lose but it really sums up the pathetic showing from the conferenece outside of miami.
Was flawed itself. Only it didnt have arguably the best conference in the history of the sport (the modern west), to make it look weak by comparison. The pool of talent is deeper than ever even though its mainly concentrated in the west
The best conference foe jordan faced in his first threepeat was a knick team who was garbage offensively and almost lost to the bulls in 94 with jordan playing baseball. Lets not make the 90s east out to be some murderers row.
Lebron is also facing better defenses consistently to compile these playoff numbers. Might sound sacreligious to say but its fact......even the bad boy pistons in todays nba would be just another solid defensive team. Lauded as amazing in their ers, lebron has faced countless defenses that were more effective. Hell even the 2014 bobcats are comparable defensively statistically to the best of the bad boy teams. This is a different era
But no one ever talks about how pathetic the 80s west was. This team had free passes to the finals every year, while the 80s east had more top end quality perennially, teams like boston and philly and later on detroit bloodying eachother up
Anyway, I agree with those who say a healthy bulls team would have been miamis main eastern rival in the era. And roses injuries have made it easier (miami is still the better team though)
But thats sports. If len bias didnt die, and bird doesnt throw out his back, that celtic team makes that first bulls threepeat a lot tougher. If penny doesnt get hurt and shaq doesnt bolt, the 2nd threepeat is substantially tougher. A bulls team on its last legs in 98 probably doesnt get by them
OKC has owned SA since the 2012 playoffs. Sure, SA was humming along when OKC was hemorrhaging points in the paint without Ibaka, but it's a totally different team with him in the lineup. SA is going to go down in 6 AGAIN.
9 straight home wins vs the spurs. 12 of 14 overall when ibaka plays. 6-0 this season. This is just a brutal matchup for the spurs when okc is healthy
durant and westbrook both incredible in that half. They are murdering sa tonight after falling down 8-0. Plus 23 since then
by the way. People can feel bad for seattle and I get it. But okc was a great addition to the league. One of the best atmospheres in the sport if not all of sports. Sell outs every night. The reason they got the team in the first place is they were wildly supportive of the hornets post katrina, and packed the place every night for a team that wasnt even theirs. They deserve their franchise
look shocked. Crazy how different these games have been from San Antonio to OKC.
I think OKC would get beat fairly easily by the Heat
OKC looks much better without Thabo Sefolosha. Problem is against Miami he would have to play to guard Lebron at times. Even then, him and KD are not the guy who necessary give him problems.
But I do agree san antonio matches up better with miami. The way they can play inside out (which okc cant do with virtually no post offense) gives miamis soft big guys issues, and opens a whole host of other problems with their shooting. Plus leonard is a better lebron defender than anyone on okc
but im starting to think it wont matter the way miami is playing. A spurs rematch would have many different dynamics this time around. Miami is going to be the team resting this year entering that matchup, while sa will likely go 7. Last year the spurs swept memphis while miami was going blood and guts vs indy for another week while sa rested. This time around wade is way healthier. This time around id expect an even bigger finals by lebron, who started the first 3 games slow in last years finals struggling with his jumper, before really stepping it up in the back half of the series.
The winning percentage is something in the low 90s. Comebacks are historically in the single digits percentage wise
but the spurs in the duncan and pop era have already blown 2 such series, and this could be a 3rd. If sa cant get back on their footing at home in game 5, this series is over. Theyll lose in 6. I dont know that sa can win in this building. They get skullfucked here with amazing considtency
first player to hit that entirely selective combination in a playoff game since jordan in 89. He was amazing tonight in every facet. The level he is capable of playing on during one of his "A" games is ridiculous from an overall perspective. His single game ceiling rivals anyone not named Lebron.
Team USA was "animal". They'd just unleash him on those poor Euro guards. He's the best PG athlete I've ever seen. Other PGs are definitely in the mix but none of them is as consistently explosive as Westbrook.
The Rose injury was just discussed on here, but another disappointing part of that is the fact that we can't compare Rose to Westbrook. That would've been a fun debate for a long time.
Does nothing in the first half in 10 minutes played, and the pacers still down 9 at half. This is just a pathetic effort by them, this team was broken after game 4, you could tell it from the postgame pressers. Theyve checked out. Miami will undoubtedly close this out tonight and have 8 days until the finals. While the two teams at west still have a best of three to play
Might be the most astonishing stat Joe and I have ever seen. Suffice it to say, Indiana is a horrible basketball team. And Paul George has gone from Superstar to Overrated.
Got this crowd into it. Pacers will play the next 7 minutes against the lebronless heat again. If they cant make a push here its one of the most disgraceful ways to go out that ive ever seen.
But I dont know how you can just let a 21 point turnaround take place with lebron on the bench. Sooner or later his foul trouble wont matter. I hate when coaches just defer to conventional wisdom and dont account for game altering circumstances unfolding before them
This is one of his 3 to 4 worst games in that sample. Only thing stopping it from being the worst is that hes barely played. But hes had a sloppy night in his limited minutes.still time left though
it would still be stunning to see indy win a game 6 in miami even if they close this one out
If Indy loses this game, if I am Vogel I call out George Hill for being a selfish bum. They need to run time off the clock or get fouled. You have to know your surroundings. Just a stupid play by Hill.
Was incredible in the 2nd half. Easily the peak moment of his young career. Too bad no one will remember it 48 hours from now. Down 3-1 in a game that likely only delays the inevitable, not the prime spot for a moment to stick in the collective consciousness
id call this the worst playoff game of lebrons career, except it was more like the worst playoff half. The 7 points is a career low, the 23 minutes is also a career low. Never got in rhythm tonight with the foul trouble. Heat overcame it in the first half, got crushed in the 2nd half with him off the floor. At one point in this game the heat were plus 16 with lebron off the floor. They finished it a minus 4. Pacers were plus 20 in like a 5 minute stretch. Heat made their push and this wss starting to feel like the 4th quarter comeback in the 2011 game 5 closer at chicago, but george just countered every punch
if youre miami, this isnt the worst thing in the world. It was a total gravy game. And 6 days off before the finals is probably a better balance to strike between rest and rust than 8 days had they won tonight. But now there is some pressure in game 6.
And point out some of this talk today about lebron not taking the last shot is so dumb. Its dumb every time it comes up since he first passed to donyell marshall with the cavs almost a decade ago. Its dumber even at this point in his career. But people never get tired of warming up these leftovers. Its like thanksgiving turkey in april today
heres a fact.... the next time lebron hits a shot to win or tie in the final 10 seconds of a playoff game, he will have done so exactly as many times as jordan did in his career.
I have zero issue with LeBron passing the ball there, but he got into the lane pretty easily and had a great chance just to go up with it and probably at worst get fouled. He kicked it to Bosh who wasn't even that open and didn't get a great look.
My issue with it is it seems like LeBron never had any intentions on shooting it, he got into the lane easily and immediately looked to kick it out.
I have no issue if someone approaches the critique from that standpoint looking at the individual circumstance. But when people try to build a narrative around it with regards to lebron shying away from the moment, and "jordan would have......" stuff, thats something else. The only guy who I could say with assurance is taking a shot there is probably kobe, but his hero ball shouldnt be confused with guts. He has been abysmal in those final possession spots. Lebron already has more playoff game winners in those spots in half the attempts
Lebron got to anyone last night without being called for a foul
I never complain about the officials. Im not making last nights results about the officials, even though as many of three of those fouls were bs. But it is example one billion about how the concept of superstar treatment is the biggest exaggeration going. Of course though this wont stop people from beating that drum the next time a big name player gets a random call
LeBron from the notion that he gets superstar treatment? Come on man, you can't possibly defend him at all times no matter what.
He gets a ton of calls, as do a handful of other players. He's a great defender and definitely gets the better end of the leeway battle more often than not, but that leeway certainly helps him.
Him getting called for fouls was bound to happen. The charge and the loose ball where he body checked Stephenson were legit (I think Stephenson got away with being a but too aggressive), can't remember the others though.
I come to that conclusion having watched him play hundreds of times. And im not limiting this to him, im talking about star treatment in general. Officials miss calls, sometimes they are on the right side of it, other times not. The notion that there is a conscious preferential slant toward lebron or any other star is mindless. There have actually been studies on this, stu jackson recently presented one on nbatv. And findings have shown that not only is there no bias in favor of big names, the opposite has shown to be true. Contrary to every lazy stereotypical comment over decades. Probably because the officials themselves are conscious of this ridiculous perception that they favor star players
The next time lebron gets the benefit of a random missed call, thats all anyone is gonna remember. Simple confirmation bias, to uphold these ridiculous stereotypes about nba officiating
He throws down a historic regular season and is the hands down league MVP. But a couple of playoff games and Westbrook might be the better player and Ibaka is the real team MVP. Hilarious. Those two guys are fantastic but Durant makes that team go. I hope he reminds people of that tonight.
prime James shouldn't be giving up 37 points to his counterpart
There were at least 2 and as many as 3 thst I thought were weak. The hill play where lebron is basically trying to get out of the way. The block/charge call for his 3rd too. And im not a big fan of number 5 either, which could just as easily bern a no call or on stephenson
but thats not even really my point. Officials miss calls. 99 percent of the time both teams get the result they deserve, and I wouldnt put last night in the 1 percent. Im not saying lebron gets a consistent raw deal from the officials. But I am saying the preferential treatment stuff is crap. And if anything more contact is allowed at the rim against him than your average player, because of his ability to absorb it. A lower case version of how it used to be with shaq
He throws down a historic regular season and is the hands down league MVP. But a couple of playoff games and Westbrook might be the better player and Ibaka is the real team MVP. Hilarious. Those two guys are fantastic but Durant makes that team go. I hope he reminds people of that tonight.
not to make any excuses for kd, but I wonder how much fatigue plays into this. Hes approaching 4,000 minutes before the finals even start. Hes on pace to play more than lebron or jordan ever played in a season. And these were demanding minutes, having to carry the team without westbrook for long stretches. Dogfights in the playoffs, lengthy wars that have been emotionally and physically draining. 4 straight overtimes in the memphis series. Had to play through game 82 to clinch the 2 seed
all that said....OMG WESTBROOK.... sorry back to topic. All that said, hes still largely playing well in this postseason for anyone not named lebron or himself. He just hasnt been as consistent
great start for okc. If they win tonight this is over. Much much bigger tonight for sa. I could see okc winning a game 7 in sa if need be. I cant see the spurs winning in okc at all. If okc wins tonight, goodnight
but LeBron is also allowed to play as aggressive as he wants on D very often. He also gets 3 or 4 step and 1 calls quite frequently. Again, I'm not singling him out, but he gets away with far more than most players do. Last night they happened to call some stuff.
We likely won't agree so that's the last I'll talk about it.
Lebron's just a very tough player to officiate against. Sometimes he'll get fouled the shit out of with no call whatsoever. Other times he gets the benefit of the whistle. Over the course of time, it balances out. I find it extremely odd that the same people saying Lebron got all the calls probably wore MJ jammies when they were children.
Lebron's just a very tough player to officiate against. Sometimes he'll get fouled the shit out of with no call whatsoever. Other times he gets the benefit of the whistle. Over the course of time, it balances out. I find it extremely odd that the same people saying Lebron got all the calls probably wore MJ jammies when they were children.
I have no dog in this fight, but I still wear Jordan Jammies. Got a problem with that?
Thats a very selective stat, because its rare that a player is going to play with 4 fouls in the 3rd quarter. The overwhelming majority of the time theyre on the bench until the 4th quarter in that situation. But given he had only played about 11 minutes total before picking up number 4, they rolled the dice. He fouled out against this team last year in the playoffs, he fouled out in the conference finals the year before that too. Hes played with foul trouble in several key games over the years
As long as you don't bitch about Lebron getting all the calls
thought the stat was definitely skewed, it just for some reason took me by surprise
mostly cause lebron is such a physical player and is very aggressive on Defense, i thought that he would have at least had it happen once before in his career with 1000+ games logged
Okc has had a ton of success in that building when they are healthy (no ibaka gm1 and 2). Tonight was a shitshow, but it wouldnt be that stunning to see them win a game 7 there. Spurs have been awesome at home in these playoffs since game 7 vs dallas though, every game is a blowout
Id be surprised if we didnt see a game 7. But usually, when a series goes true to homecourt in the first 6 games, it doesnt break stride in game 7. Tough to think of many examples where the first road win in a series comes in game 7. Okc is capable though
Man, I don't know when this meme will get old, but i'm enjoying it!
has been and will continue to be mediocre PG play. collison was not a starter for an elite team... and hill is certainly not. that leaves 2 wings over dribbling and forcing things... very few easy shots, and stagnant half court offense.
get a pg and they are right there
The Pacers are just plain bad. They blew their best shot this year and Stephenson will probably be gone next year. And even though the east in general isn't very good, there are a handful of young teams who are getting better. They can easily drop down to a 4 or 5 seed next year. Especially if the latter part of this season was any indicator of the future.
Im rooting for them, their my team of the moment. Im a die hard nba fan, fraud knicks fan
on another note.... ive seen every playoff game this heat team has played since lebron came. Well over half the regular season games. Theyve never had a better half. Theyve been stewing over game 5 for 48 hours, they cant stand the pacers in general. They wanted to murder this team tonight. Of course it helps when youre shooting it that well (60 points in a half against statistically one of the best defenses ever), but their effort and posession to possession focus tonight has been as good as its ever been in those 24 minutes. They came with an intention to kill tonight
And are way healthier than they were at this time last year. And unlike last year, theyre going to be the team resting entering the finals, while the west series likely goes 7. Those 10 plus days off were huge for san antonio last year, if they go 7 vs okc they will get 2 days this time around
on the flipside, san antonio has homecourt this time around, which is huge
Im still rooting for okc, they arent dead yet. But if we are looking at a 2013 rematch, its pretty much a coin flip. The spurs can definitely beat them. They have been the best team this year and match up well. But miami's ceiling is still the highest in the league, theyve been coasting this whole year to peak at this very time, and it looks like they are.
Rashard lewis has largely been a useless pickup for the heat since he has been here, but he was big in this series. Best week in his heat career. Miami in the past likes to alternate haslem and battier in the startibg 5 depending on the matchup. But if lewis is knocking down shots he gives you the best of both worlds. He can guard bigs like david west (which battier cannot do) while still giving you the spacing on offense that they lack when they start haslem. Interested to see if he keeps starting in the finals. No chance if its okc, battier will play for kd. But if its the spurs they can play lewis on haslem
vogel just said "we lost to the michael jordan of our era"
Came by to say the Heat got mad and skullfucked Indiana
If its the spurs they can start lewis or haslem. Not lewis on haslem of course. Lewis can play on splitter if the spurs go back to their normal lineup after okc
If he wants lance stephenson back on the team next year...... "I dont know. Thats a decision for larry."
Vogel spoke postgame about lance "tugging on supermans cape." And really not showing much support, and he is usually super positive, like a tamer rex ryan. Even his own team cant seem to stand him. Hibbert hates him. West is upset with him too. Evan turner is not a fan (not like it matters what he thinks, but its hilarious to look back at the trade deadline when many talking heads thought he could swing the balance of power in the east).
I dont think hes back. Wonder who pays him. He will have suitors because hes an incredibly well rounded player even though hes an idiot
The graphics on the telecast typed out foot injury. And the ice is being applied in the achilles area. Still unclear whats going on, but big development
And no sympathy for sa with the injury luck theyve gotten in relation to okc the past two years. Still hope parker can go gm 7 though, if okc can win tonight. Spurs hanging in
Has had a bunch of parralells to game 6 of last years finals, only the final 20 seconds werent quite as crazy. The big 2nd half lead, manu missing big free throws, overtime .... I know the spurs still have another game to play regardless, but theyve put so much into tonight extending guys minutes, theyre emptying the tank. Plus who knows about parker
Let's Go Spurs in the finals. Won't be easy for them but they have home court and with 4 days rest now they should be fresh enough for the finals. Hopefully Parker is OK
Because I have to think some of them might retire if they do. And with OKC not even making the Finals, I have to think they'll make some moves. Either or both of scenarios would help out Golden State.
Brings back memories of me cursing out LeBron during
Im sure he will play, and if the spurs lose, heat haters will point to the injury as the reason, whether its significant or not
its a big deal. But among the reasons why sa matches up so well with miami, parker is down the list. It is duncans post presence against a team with weak interior defense, and the fact that they surround him with shooters (hope danny green doesnt have another goat finals shooting performance). Its the fact that leonard was basically built in a lab somewhere by scientists to possess the best blend of length, strength and lateral quickness to defend lebron among anyone walking the planet. Its the fact that they can beat the heat up on the boards.
If parker cant be 75 percent of himself its going to be very tough. But they dont need a vintage tony parker series. This is a duncan matchup
Im sure he will play, and if the spurs lose, heat haters will point to the injury as the reason, whether its significant or not
its a big deal. But among the reasons why sa matches up so well with miami, parker is down the list. It is duncans post presence against a team with weak interior defense, and the fact that they surround him with shooters (hope danny green doesnt have another goat finals shooting performance). Its the fact that leonard was basically built in a lab somewhere by scientists to possess the best blend of length, strength and lateral quickness to defend lebron among anyone walking the planet. Its the fact that they can beat the heat up on the boards.
If parker cant be 75 percent of himself its going to be very tough. But they dont need a vintage tony parker series. This is a duncan matchup
One of the ways to beat the Heat is to shoot the ball. A guy who got little playing time in OKC needs to be big against Miami. And that Belinelli. He had some success last year against the Heat, and IIRC, guarded Wade pretty well.
Really hope Parker is ready to go - "this was an injury that has been bothering him prior to the game" - so this is a true head to head match up of the clear 2 best teams in the NBA.
whether your a heat hater or not would point to Parker not playing or being seriously limited equating to a much easier matchup. What's the problem with thinking that?
Im just saying regardless of his physical condition, the extent of which we may never know, its going to be the rallying cry for heat haters if sa loses
And yes I know im insufferable at this point with the heat poms poms. So ill stop here and not going into a long description detailing injury breaks chicago got in the 91, 93 and 96 finals, because no one cares and im even starting to hate myself at this point for being such a fanboy
but this isn't the 90s. Plenty of championship teams catch breaks and this could potentially be a big one.
As much as I dislike the Heat, I'm fine with them winning as long as Parker is near 100%. I won't even want to watch the series if he isn't himself, it will be pointless.
really looking forward to these finals. This is one thing the NBA has over all other sports, they heavyweight rematch. It happened with Giants-Pats but it is very unlikely in today's NFL.
Last year I was rooting for the Heat in the Finals, this year I'm rooting for the Spurs.
If I'm OKC, I'd fire Brooks. I'd also think about trading Westbrook. Russ is a spectacular talent but he's not the best style of PG for that offense and the injuries worry me a little. How much better is Westbrook really going to get? If anything, I think he'll only get worse because he relies on his GOAT athleticism from the PG position so much.
It's so hard to get equal value back in a trade like that. It's highly unlikely they'd find the right fit. But I'd definitely try and find the best offer I can for him.
I think what they should do is consider another option at point and moving Westbrook to 2. What they really need isn innovative coach that can draw up a few offensive sets instead of relying on Durant and Westbrook's athletic ability.
RE: Hmm, I don't think you'd get fair value back for Westbrook
I think what they should do is consider another option at point and moving Westbrook to 2. What they really need isn innovative coach that can draw up a few offensive sets instead of relying on Durant and Westbrook's athletic ability.
D'antoni!!!
i find there is a lot of searching for who to blame
for the thunder losing. Maybe the focus should be Durant getting a post game. If he got a post game and Brooks and Westbrook are back next year... i would say they will be in the finals.
Westbrook is often forcing shots because its either him isolating on the outside or durant doing so... there is not a set play low post option that would be there if durant evolved that part of his offense.
Westbrook was the thunders best player this playoffs... they likely dont make it this far without him. He is far from the problem.
They also have no depth on the wing. a young player needs to develop.
But please can we stop searching for reasons why Durant isnt playing anymore... this post season its on him.
If i am the thunder i find a way to sign shaun livingston. He would be a great fit to allow westbrook more time off the ball, and adds to their defensive ability.
18.0 ppg (21 ppg in the 3 wins) 66% from downtown (an nba finals record 25 threes). 90 total points on 53 shot attempts (1.7 points per shot attempt). Outplayed dwyane wade decisively.
Everyone thinks of game 6 and 7 last year when reflecting on the series. But the driving force behind that 3 to 2 advantage san antonio took to miami was a highly improbable and likely not repeatable cinderella performance by danny green. He can stroke it and is undoubtedly a threat, but what we saw last year through 5 games was a historical aberration, and drastically changed the face of the series. Miami adjusted in game 6 and 7 and stayed home on shooters, but that spaced the floor for duncan who had two vintage nights. I expect miami to similarly try and play bosh 1 on 1 vs duncan with no help. That matchup is the key to the series. Bosh has had a ton of big games against duncan in the regular season, but was murdered in last years finals. Didnt provide much offense either and even went scoreless in game 7. He needs to play better this year and not get completely worked in his head to head with tim. If we are going to refer to bosh as a future hof, its not asking much of him to not get embarrassed by a 38 year old duncan while bosh is in his physical prime.
the only massive difference was game 3 for SA. Miami double the 3 point total of SA in the last 2 games as well. Let's not pretend Danny Green was the only reason SA was in it. You keep throwing out these 1 sided stats, that it's so hard to discuss it with you.
for most of the series, was the reason it went 7. Before game 7 Lebron was playing Like an all star not an all time great.
I dont have the advanced stats, just my eyes.
Game 7 he was fantastic.
made a free throw or grabbed a rebound in game 6 LeBron would have gotten hammered for that series loss. He played well in game 5, but games 1-4 and game 6 he was not shooting the ball well at all.
also made more 3's upon second look in that entire series, which includes the big game 3 and 6 for Danny Green. Both teams had 5 guys averaging double figures. Danny Green was crushing it from 3 all playoffs, not just the NBA finals, but Miami as a team shot just as well from 3.
danny green was very arguably the spurs mvp through 5 games
Lets not act like that wasnt a massive fluke. He was having the most efficient shooting performance in the history of the nba finals, and it threw a massively unexpected wrench into the series. Arguing that point speaks to your bias more than mine
of course there are differences between both teams this time around that could be argued as advantages both ways. Spurs have home court. Parker may be healthier. Theyre deeper and leonard is a year better. But if we are keeping score here, miami was the team who came the furthest from their ceiling last time around. Wade is a completely different player, dude was averaging 14 ppg on 43 percent shooting in the playoffs before the finals last year. Lebrons not gonna shoot 37 percent in the first 3 games again. They arent going to be at a rest disadvantage of 9 days to 2 as they were entering last year. Its unlikely they get hit with another unexpected blow like greens outburst, if for no other reason than what we saw last year has basically never happened before. They are also likely to get a better bosh than they got last time because he couldnt be worse. They also dealt with duncans best playoff series in about 6 years. Does he have another 19 and 12 in him every night?
This series is a coinflip. But its completely fair to acknowledge that the spurs had a lot of things break right to put them in a position where they were 5 seconds from winning. They played much closer to their ceiling last year than miami
Lebrons game 6 in last years final was epic. The fact that he shot under 50 percent doesnt change the fact that he had dropped 30 with a triple double, which has only been done in the finals 4 times in nba history. Also scored or assisted on 23 straight heat pts in the 2nd half, leading them back from down double digits. Guarded tony parker in the 2nd half and flipped the game on that end. Also scored the game winner in ot
notable (but far from insurmountable) edge to Miami. Biggest non-Lebron reason being Wade. He is playing extremely good basketball and if Bosh, let alone Allen, turns it on as well it becomes a giant game of "who do you guard?"
And Lebron just looks like he's on a mission. Fuck da Heat so I hope he comes up short, but when you're that good things just start going your way naturally.
That said, Spurs winning wouldn't surprise me at all. Duncan with 5 rings would be cool...such a legendary player.
without green it wouldnt have been close. That's the same thing as saying had he not been hot, no one else would have stepped up, which is ludicrous given got deep that team was.
I know you are all LeBron all the time, yadda yadda, but I think your assessment is flat out biased and wrong in this case.
has nothing to do with you pumping up LeBron and co more than you already do. And what's the post of posting about Green playing very well then if it isn't to say the series wasn't close otherwise?
I don't care who wins since the NBA doesn't mean much to me at all in the grand scheme of things,which is why I won't intently watch if Parker isn't playing up to speed.
San antonio played closer to their ceiling last year than miami. Not a real arguable point. Maybe if your hate of the heat wasnt so strong youd be able to see it. And youre the one lecturing me about bias. At least im aware of my osn biases, which is more than I can say about you
looking forward to the predictable posts from the same whiny group every time Lebron gets a favorable call. Funny thing is that if Lebron 3-peats, the same group will be picking apart at his legacy with a fine tooth comb, whereas if Duncan wins he will get sucked off by them and the media.
looking forward to the predictable posts from the same whiny group every time Lebron gets a favorable call. Funny thing is that if Lebron 3-peats, the same group will be picking apart at his legacy with a fine tooth comb, whereas if Duncan wins he will get sucked off by them and the media.
How about if you like both LeBron and Duncan? I can tell you aren't a Duncan fan.
never said otherwise and it's clear as day. I'm just not pumping up SA or any other team that Miami faces. It's just weird that no matter what any team does to the Heat something is cherry picked out of it to make the Heat, and more so LeBron, on some even larger pedestal.
I have a vast appreciate for LeBron, his accomplishments, and his overall image with kids off the court. I disliked his decision and the Heat culture that they've created. I make fun of LeBron from time to time because it's funny. It's fun to debate, for the most part which is why I occasionally post on this thread. I don't think I've even commented more than once or twice about any calls his playoffs (which is what a certain poster is failing at alluding to) including Heat games. Probably made a couple jokes here and there and that's about it.
But back to my main point here more to it than Danny Green. Ginobli was uncharacteristaclly bad that series, especially from 3, and SA only had 2 players make double digit 3s all series to Miami's 5. Had Ginobili been even 10% better as a whole, the series is over.
All that said, I'm taking Miami in 7. Just too much on the line for LeBron just like last year (though less pressure).
Theres nothing david said there that wasnt an accurate portrayal of how things have been on these threads in title runs past and figure to be in the future. Get over yourself and off your high horse about other peoples biases. But im speaking to a guy who "doesnt find lebrons 2 title runs impressive", and 90 percent of the time is throwing water on every accomplishment hes ever achieved
I love the guys without the self awareness to see their own biases casting stones
no matter what Miami does, something always gets cherry picked to diminish their accomplishments. Spurs are impervious to criticism from the pundits and fans. Miami basically did what they set out to do this postseason so far, and they beat the teams they're supposed to beat by rather handily. Hardly anyone brings up the fact that the Spurs needed 7 games to get rid of Dallas. I know the West is loaded, but SA should have put Dallas down much earlier in the series.
I could say the same thing about you and Peyton Manning.
don't throw water on his accomplishments! He's an all-time great! 5 time MVP! I don't think you're actually doing that, by the way, as previously discussed. You're merely considering the nuance(s) of his career which in my view is perfectly legitimate. Heavy forbid that same standard is applied to your King.
Yes, the sucking off of Lebron has reached the point where now he must be preemptively defended.
Quote:
Funny thing is that if Lebron 3-peats, the same group will be picking apart at his legacy with a fine tooth comb
He's a sensational player and I've never said otherwise. My "bias" is that I don't like a bitter conference rival filled with ring chasers and with shitty fans. To return to a previous point, I also didn't like the early/mid 90s Cowboys. Did you? I mean they, like Lebron's Heat, were dominant (3 rings in 4 years) so maybe you did find them seductive.
Why? There is no doubt that having RW hurts KD's game. RW will always have an impressive stat line, but his bone head decisions and shot selection cripples OKC in just about every series.
Im open about that though. And I dont think ive ever said anything about him that wasnt fair. He is the greatest regular season qb in nfl history, and has a very sketchy postseason career. Didnt even play well in his sb winning playoff run. All that is accurate. And without caring to get into a peyton discussion at length, there is way way way more red meat to critique in regards to him than lebron. Hes closing in on arguably the best pre age 30 career in his sport, he is only compared to ghosts. Theres not much to come at him with that doesnt sound petty, biased or misinformed
I can enjoy the series, take jabs at the Miami players I hate (Battier, Chalmers, Bosh), take some shots at Parker for being absent when it matters the most. I am going to ooh and ahh when Lebron is special. I am going to nitpick if he doesnt play to his capabilities.
I am going to go all nostalgia when Duncan makes some fundamental play, and just shake my head when he put his hands when he cries he didnt commit a foul.
The reason this series is great to me is that I could give a flyin' rats ass who wins/losses. But if Lebron has a shitty series and the Spurs win, I will refer to this series on his legacy. If Duncan loses again, retirement talk should be coming.
I am going to enjoy all the banter.... haha
Again I'm glad you agree that the record of superstars
like Peyton should not be unimpugnable merely because they're superstars. And I agree myself on Peyton - although a fair assessment would note that much of his prime was spent up against the best coach/QB combo in NFL history (with a nod to Bill Walsh). He just objectively has had much tougher roads in the post-season than James.
I was a huge fan of Lebron on the Cavs, by the way. I just really do not like the Heat. That's my "bias" for which I'm being upbraided. Sue me. Also hate the Eagles.
the roads traveled are an apples and oranges comparison
Plus theres not many "roads" traveled when 8 of your playoff losses are one and dones, most at home against clearly inferior teams with his all world offense failing to score 20 points. Thats not a road traveled, thats walking up the block and getting bitchslapped, each and everytime by a team not led by brady and belichick, who got him just twice in his 50 year career
theres really not much of a comparison. And if you think the road to two titles has been easy for lebron, you havent been paying attention. Because there has never been a player who had to shoulder a wider array of responsibilities during a similar run, and even if you want to bash the east he is still going through loaded teams in these finals. Powerhouses who emerged from the deepest conference in league history, with hall of famers all over the floor. The heat arent even favored in the finals. Werent in 2012 either
And for all the east bashing, you take lebron off the heat they dont come within an eyelash of winning it anyway like the bulls did with jordan playing baseball. They probably dont even get by your nets. Thats why its always rich when these competition arguments are formed under some pro jordan angle as you often do. This isnt the watered down expansion crazy 90s and lebron doesnt have the 2nd best wing player in basketball on his team, coupled with great interior defense and rebounding and the best coach ever
I'd have to say I think Lebron is a tremendous player until you realize that I think Lebron is a tremendous player.
You keep bringing it back to Jordan, not me. I've never denied he had major help winning his rings. Not just Pippen, obviously. The Worm was still a monster in his mid 30s during the 2nd 3-peat. I do, however, think it's factual to state he wouldn't have been caught dead conspiring with other stars in the league. I think that's a knock against Lebron. Clearly you do not. w/e...opinions.
these are teams that lebrons postseasons ended against
Teams who held him shy of titles and teams who he went through to get his titles. The list relative to peyton isnt close, though admittedly football is more prone to randomness
06- a pistons team who won it all in 04, went to a finals game 7 in 05, and was in the middle of a stretch of 6 straight conference finals appearances. Lebron took them 7 as a 21 year old with a bunch of nobodies
07- a spurs dynasty in progress in a series lebrons cavs had no business advancing to anyway, duncan gets his 4th ring vs a 22 year old lebron
08- a celtic team who was very arguably a top 12 to 15 team in league history, and arguably the GOAT defense. Won it all that year. Lebron struggled with his shot at times in that series but led an undermanned cavs team to a tight 7th game, where lebron scored 45 in a loss
09- lost to a very good magic team who admittedly is not historically memorable by any stretch. But you literally could not play better in the series than lebron did. Best performance in a best of 7 losing effort of all time. Averaged 38 pts, 8 boards and 8 assists and his 2009 playoff player efficiency rating is still the best in nba history
2010- a celtic team who came within a couple timely buckets of winning it all that year. Had a 13 point 2nd half lead in game 7 of the finals. Lebron had one terrible game in the series but was otherwise brilliant
2011- lebrons biggest failure. But the mavs did win it all that year and in the process swept the lakers in a postseason where l.a. was chasing a threepeat
2012- won a title against an okc team with durant, westbrook, harden and ibaka without homecourt, was a vegas underdog in the series against them. Okc had just ended the spurs 20 game win streak in the playoffs by beating them 4 straight to close the series
2013- beat a spurs team with a post peak but still first team all nba version of duncan, and the deepest supporting cast he has ever had.
2014- will play those same spurs who are 4 wins away from being put into the discussion as the best spurs team ever. Theyve never been this deep and well rounded, and duncan is still playing on an incredibly high level
I dont see any jay fiedler dolphins or chad pennington and mark sanchez jets there. No 8-8 charger teams. I could go on
this is pointless anyway because the sports are different as are their responsibilities
But he's already passed Peyton in my mind. Equal to Peyton in the regular season, FAAAR greater than Peyton in the playoffs.
Over-defending LeBron is so 2012. He has a big boy resume now with the rings. Haters will say blah blah decision, but you are an idiot if you deny LeBron's greatness at this point. I like LeBron but I've always been a "Michael Jordan is the GOAT athlete in American Sports history" type of guy. There are a lot of candidates in that argument but I'd go Jordan.
I've always wanted to see LeBron succeed. He had the GOAT expectations of any NBA player since Kareem, and he exceeded them. I always respected how great he was and thought all the LeBron hate over the years was annoying. So I rooted for him to see the idiot haters eat shit.
But for the first time I'm starting to feel worried about Jordan's legacy. LeBron is mounting a legitimate run at the crown and the Jordan fanboy deep inside of me is finally starting to get scared. Peak vs. Peak is an argument that Jordan may forever have. And that will keep him in the mix no matter what. I'd take Peak Jordan over Peak LeBron. But Peak LeBron is clearly a Top 5 Peak ever, arguably Top 3. And with the way he is improving his offense in the half-court, who knows if he has reached his most lethal form yet.
For the first time those Michael Jordan retirements are looking important for his resume. He was the GOAT even with those 2 early retirements but LeBron looks like a player who could finally make MJ pay for ditching his team early a couple of times.
MJ: 11 full regular seasons with the Bulls (what Wiz years?)
LJ: 11 full regular seasons after 2014
After 11 seasons, MJ has the lead on LeBron. But LeBron isn't too far behind. BTW, LeBron isn't 30 yet.
LeBron's longevity could potentially be a huge edge for him over Jordan. He may never attain the Pure Peak title, but the overall GOAT title is starting to get within his reach.
So I'm rooting for the Spurs just to make things harder on him. But more than anything I'm just rooting for another classic 7 game Finals.
Jordan was handed a better and way more balanced supporting cast by his management than lebron currently has by free agent choice. From a pure basketball standpoint, its silly to hold one guy in high regard while knocking another one. If jordan had been in lebrons shoes, who knows how he reacts. If he doesnt seek help he absolutely never becomes the michael jordan mythic figure of today. Hes not winning 6 rings with a cast like lebrons cavs.
I honestly don't recall any. He was effectively an underdog for 7 years, a one man show a la Allen Iverson in 01.
I find it a little odd that you don't get why people dislike Miami as a team. Nothing personal against the players (okay, maybe Battier) but in a Yankees-esque "evil empire" sort of way.
One can respect the hell out of Sydney Crosby and admit he's the best all around player since Lemieux while also hoping the Penguins fail. They're a bitter rival. Fuck em. Seems like a normal competitive streak to me rather than irrational "hate".
Hate the heat all you want. Thats not the point. But when you trivialize their accomplishments to the point of absurdity, and then accuse others of being biased, come on now. You hate them, thats fine, but pot meet kettle with regards to bias. Lets not act like most of these rants (I think my favorite was last years title deserves an asterisk because of a substitution poppovich made with duncan late in game 6, something he often does to defend a three) stem from anything other than a raging, absurd bias. Certainly not from a coherent thought process
after a heart-breaking loss and I really wanted to see a game 6 at Barclays. I'm sure you were pissed after Desean ran back Dodge's punt.
But, yes, I do think it's interesting to consider how some of these championships were won. I, for instance, think Eli's SB42 victory was way, way more impressive than Peyton's SB victory over the Bears. You would no doubt point out that such a rant stems from a raging and absurd bias, that rings are rings, and who cares how they were won. Just count em up.
I just disagree. However that in no way "trivializes" how great LBJ is as a player. Though I do think his brilliance would be better highlighted were he not in a disaster of a conference. Will be interesting to see how he fares against this Spurs team.
but this is going to be a very interesting battle between the Stanley Cup and NBA Finals. Rangers fans shouldn't give a shit about ratings and I'm sure they're annoyed by the mere mention of it. But this is NY vs. LA. The last time the NHL had the Rangers in the Finals, they were on the same level as the NBA ratings wise. Going to be really interesting to see if the big markets help the Stanley Cup actually get close to the Finals in terms of ratings.
The NY area ratings will also be interesting. It would be embarrassing if the NHL lost in NY to the NBA. I'm guessing that won't be the case.
This really would've been interesting if Indiana made the Finals. The ratings would've suffered bigtime with no LeBron and Miami.
I think it will be interesting to see the LA and NY ratings...
how people could watch the NBA playoffs and enjoy them more than the NHL.
These NBA finals, outside of the first round, have been a complete snoozefest. Add in that the NHL has very little stoppage, you don't have the final 2 minutes of a game interrupted by 10 different commercial breaks.
The Finals will be entertaining to watch, but the flow of these games gets destroyed by TV and timeouts. You are rarely ever on the edge of your seat watching an NBA playoff game, mostly because the stoppages don't allow for it.
I know a big part of it is because minorities really dont play hockey and dont watch it but its just a much better playoff product. You are truly on the edge of your seat for 45 minutes watching an NHL playoff game because they have very little timeouts in a period.
The NHL will never compete with the NBA in ratings but I personally feel in the playoffs its a much better product to watch, especially considering in the NBA playoffs a lot of the time you can guess the finals teams before the playoffs or hell even season begins
would be destroyed without LeBron. He's their meal ticket. If the NBA ever went through a long stretch without a true dominant player the ratings would suffer big time.
I find the NBA far more watchable than the NHL because it is a better sport. I watch the NHL playoffs and enjoy all the awesome 3rd period and OT action. But basketball is just the far more visually aesthetic sport in my mind.
Hockey's excitement is easy to get. That's the reason so many chicks who know nothing about sports prefer hockey to any other sport. There's always action going on. And Goals provide a moment that the NBA can't really match. (Football has TDs, Hockey has Goals, MLB has runs/Home Runs, NBA has nothing like that). But overall I find basketball to be the more enjoyable sport and the NBA playoffs to be the better product. But again, that's my opinion.
The NBA needs to fix the late game situation stuff. It really destroys the entertainment value of critical late game situations. A lot of games you have 5-6 timeouts in the final 2 minutes, sometimes more. It's absurd, they need to fix it somehow. I like the advancement of the ball, I think it provides more potential excitement, but maybe instead of 2 extra timeouts for a team, give them 2 extra "ball advancements". They can use them when they want to, but only get 2. A lot of teams call timeouts just to get the ball advanced, I know they like to talk strategy but these stoppages at the end of games have to stop. It makes the game painful to watch
- The East SUCKED. It looked like a 2 team race in the East all year until the last couple of months when Indiana got in a funk.
- OKC vs. LAC/SAS series were good not great, Game 7s would've helped a lot
But the NBA is about the best of the best. It's always been that way. The difference between the #1 and the #5 player in the NBA is often times just as big as the difference between the #5 and #20 player. That's what happens in a 5v5 sport where you play both sides for 80+% of the game as a star. So yea the NBA is predictable. But it gives us Heavyweight matches.
David vs. Goaliath is probably everyone's favorite matchup. And I love to see it too. But sometimes I just want to see Goliath vs. Goliath. If you want to see David vs. David you are an idiot lol.
On basketball, I'm curious what happens if LeBron wins his third straight. They've managed DWade's knee incredibly well this year (given his playoff performance). But overall, that's a losing battle. I don't think LeBron steps away from a squad that's just three-peated but that might be wishful thinking, since my secret hope is that he leaves after next year when a certain big city team is flush with cap room.
another very predictable sport. There is a clear hierarchy at the top and the gap between the #1 player and the #5 player is massive just like it is in the NBA. But people still watch it because watching those top players dominate is just fun to watch. And watching those top players end up in wars against each other is fantastic TV.
I've been following this year's French Open. But there's only one matchup that I truly want to see. It's the only matchup most of us really care about. Nadal vs. Djokovic. Those 2 are the class of the sport. A Final between those 2 would be an epic matchup.
bounced back after a lackluster clay court season (by his standards) is pretty silly. Yea he's faced an easy draw, but he's skull****ing players out there. It's as if Philippe Chatrier rejuvenates him. I think it's Rafa and Novak in the final, but if current form holds, Rafa wins.
I don't know. Djokovic just humiliated Tsonga. I'd still lean Djokovic as the slight favorite but this Nadal vs. Ferrer matchup will tell us a lot. If Nadal dominates Ferrer then I think he becomes the favorite again. It feels like Nadal is slowly getting better and better on clay this year which is cool to watch. There is just so much on the line for both Nadal and Djokovic.
The men's game recently has been exceptionally good. With a dip in Murray's form and Fed's continued decline, the notion of a top 4 is less believable, but there's a lot of good players and two legends at the peak of their powers at the top.
were the two best players in the sport and they were American. That goes a long way when it comes to marketing Tennis or any sport.
But I think tennis has still remained relevant. Federer and Nadal were really big for the sport. And Djokovic turning into a historic player against all odds has made this era that much more interesting. Murray is also a nice sidestory.
The way tennis works just reminds me of the way the NBA works.
The nba will destroy the nhl finals. We are going to see the absolute ceiling the nhl has in this series, and it will still fall well shy. Its not a fair fight. No cup finals game has ever even done a 5 rating. If they average a 5 theyd be thrilled and gary bettman will take bows every year. The nba finals are going to do double digits easily. Pacers vs spurs would have beaten a cup final too, it would have been closer, but theyd still win decisively
I can enjoy the series, take jabs at the Miami players I hate (Battier, Chalmers, Bosh), take some shots at Parker for being absent when it matters the most.
Luke that time when he won the Finals Most inVisible Player award?
were the two best players in the sport and they were American. That goes a long way when it comes to marketing Tennis or any sport.
But I think tennis has still remained relevant. Federer and Nadal were really big for the sport. And Djokovic turning into a historic player against all odds has made this era that much more interesting. Murray is also a nice sidestory.
The way tennis works just reminds me of the way the NBA works.
Substance wise Osi, you are the best poster on BBI. You can break down the NFL, NBA, MLB, Tennis, and Nascar. That's impressive.
people in LA don't care about hockey. I think I read that game 7 of Kings-Blackhawks only got a 4 in LA, while getting a huge number in Chicago. The NHL would have much preferred Rangers-Blackhawks.
I agree a lot with what Mook said about LeBron being the leagues meal ticket, but that is nothing new. The league has always been dependent of stars, it's a star league. If the NBA ever went through a drought with little star power, ratings would take a huge hit. The only sport that is immune from that though is the NFL, so it isn't any wild revelation.
But the NBA threads for the most part have a lot of well versed intelligent posters when it comes to talking sports. I feel like the NBA threads really cut a lot of the fat off from the "NFT superstars" and cliquey groups that don't contribute much to talking sports that populates most of BBI. The same could be said for the hockey and baseball threads, but I wouldn't know. I never open them up being that I'm not a fan of either sport. Ironically, I just feel like this football forum has a lot more quality sports discussions on the NBA threads.
but that's secondary to wanting to see a good series. I'd prefer a Miami Heat win in 7 games over a Spurs win in 5 games. But if it gets to a Game 7, right now I'd be leaning towards the Spurs.
I'm really interested in the inevitable "LeBron Wars" that are going to occur on this thread during the Finals. We're at a point where certain anti-LeBron opinions are just too stupid to even debate. So hopefully the LeBron discussions should be of higher quality than in the past couple of Finals.
My one suggestion. Please limit the amount of times you use the word "Legacy" in a post during these Finals. I use that word a ton too so I'm not talking about anyone in particular. Let's just worry about this year before we worry about legacies. I really hope we get another classic 7 game series. Spurs need this game more tonight.
From up 7 in the 4th to that. Kinda felt they needed this one if they were gonna takethis series. People are going to have a field day with lebrons cramps, but when your muscles lock up like that its as bad as any injury in the short term. I actually had this very thought about it at halftime given the constant emphasis on the temps and his penchent for this happening before, but ive never seen him this paralyzed by it. Heat let a great chance go tonight. That was just a terrible last 8 minutes in every facet imaginable.
but it was exciting hawkey. I'm just ready for this game tonight. Miami needs it more obviously. Playoff games where "Miami needs it more" are always must-watch.
this 12 year old is called the kid with the golden voice? Why?
Lebron on court= miami plus 121
lebron off court= miami minus 29
wade on court= miami plus 29
wade off court= miami plus 63
bosh on court= plus 27
bosh off court= miami plus 65
on/off numbers in small samples can be very misleading, but this is nuts. They are a minus 38 with lebron off the floor vs indy and san antonio. Theyre getting skullfucked whenever spo tries to buy him rest.
you'd think this data would be far more persuasive and prominent to general fans who still don't realize how Lebron carries a team. Too much focus is paid to what he doesn't do rather than what he makes possible.
no one has had to ever shoulder a wider variety of responsibilities and general load during a potential dynasty run. The plus minus stuff is the least of that and im honestly not a huge plus minus guy
no one has had to ever shoulder a wider variety of responsibilities and general load during a potential dynasty run
Are you talking NBA only? There are only a few "dynasties" to even compare him to: LA, Chicago, San Antonio. Unless you're going back decades. And none of these superstars - Jordan, Shaq, Duncan - had the chance to prove they could carry like James. Safe bet they could have (Jordan without a doubt).
If you're including other sports, it's a complete apples & oranges comparison since no superstar, even a QB, can do it (largely) by himself like a single player can in the NBA. And although he could never get them over the top because he had virtually no support, Hasek carried Buffalo every bit as much as Lebron carries Miami, insofar as you can compare the 2 sports.
It's probably sufficient to effusively praise Lebron using salient statistics without also needing to elevate him above all those other...well, three...dynasties.
Than any one player has meant for a dynasty in any sport since Bill Russell.
You can't just say Jordan could've done it without a doubt. It took him for Pippen to hit his prime and the Pistons to exit theirs for the Bulls to be a real title contender.
LeBron means more to this Heat team than Jordan meant to either 3 peat Bulls teams. And it isn't really that close.
I'm just saying there is no fair comparison. Shaq had Kobe and nice role players. Kobe had Pau. Duncan, the Admiral, Parker, etc. Jordan Pippin then Worm. None of those superstars had the chance to prove an ability to do what James is doing for this Heat team.
He deserves the praise, no doubt. I'm saying it's strange to compare apples to oranges and act like it's a notable point. The only apt comparison I can think of is the aforementioned Hasek and that's another sport and wasn't a dynasty.
on either end without the guys... so i dont even know what the point of "who meant more to whom" is.
if i were to go MOM overanalyze last nights game... i would give the break down of lebron up until Leonard got in foul trouble and then talk about how unimpressive it is to beat Diaw who has a poor defensive ranking in the 2nd quarer of finals games when pace adjusted on Sunday evening start times in the mid west.
lebron was awesome last night. the games will keep getting better. we have a great series going. can we avoid the overanalysis until the series is over.... if the series ended after 2 games last year we would be singing a different tune.
thread is now full of either 1) hockey whiners complaining abou basketball. 2) angry ranger fans who are knicks fans hating on basketball because the knicks have sucked 3) lebron slobber fest.
no need to lobber about something that was very clear last night, especially with he jumper going... hes the best player in the league and it aint close.
the first two games were really good games (well the first one was until Lebron got hurt.)
I am not ready to say how much Lebron carries himself among Russell, Jordan, etc. He gets a shit ton of help from other players, D Wade still goes for about 20 a series in the finals. Guys like Battier, Miller, Chalmers, Haslem, etc have hit huge shots. Bosh was big last night.
From an individual game stand point, Lebron has delivered (except for 2011 finals, but thats another story). But every game he usually gets help from 1-2 role players. Last night it was Rashard Lewis who hit the big shots. Lebron is undoubtedly the best player in the league. I just dont like when people say he is doing it alone (even though last night in the 3rd quarter he was pretty damn awesome).
MJ, Magic, Russell, and Lebron dont win without help. If Ray Allen's 3 misses or SA made free throws last year, he would be stuck with 1 title. But with the help of the role players, he is looking good for a 3 peat.
Lebron on court= miami plus 121
lebron off court= miami minus 29
wade on court= miami plus 29
wade off court= miami plus 63
bosh on court= plus 27
bosh off court= miami plus 65
on/off numbers in small samples can be very misleading, but this is nuts. They are a minus 38 with lebron off the floor vs indy and san antonio. Theyre getting skullfucked whenever spo tries to buy him rest.
I am with MoM on this stat, but I have to throw a wrench in there. If that number with him off the floor in the playoffs is true... then it isn't that bad. Miami was -17 at the end of the game 1 when Miami was up 2 when lebronbleft for good with cramps. SA then outscored them by 17. So if you take that 17 away, its only been -12 for the entire playoffs. Which isn't as bad as it usually is.
Just a little nitpicking but Joe is usually right when lebron leaves the game, the Heat do get crushed.
But it's just a really interesting aspect about LeBron.
- he made the decision to get a ton of help
- fans hated him for jumping to a superteam
- his rings somehow aren't considered as precious because he jumped to a superteam
All that said and the Heat "Superteam" is actually a meh supporting cast for a title winner. They're a .500 team without LeBron. And that's only if Wade can stay healthy carrying the load.
It's just really weird with LeBron. His haters shit on him for going to play with a ton of help. But his defenders point out that he really doesn't have much help.
New York fans, definitely, because they wanted (and in some cases felt they probably deserved) him on their team. They were extra pissed when he declined AND announced his decision 45 minutes away in Greenwich.
Cleveland fans, of course and I think justifiably. The absurd Decision was a prime time, choreographed "fuck you" not just to Cavs fans but to a downtrodden city which has little else to get excited about (and which in a very real way depended on him economically). Why, exactly, could he not just have quietly signed on the dotted line in Miami? I still don't get it...
He chose the spectacle and chose to say douchey things like "take my talents" and, after the Dallas loss where he sucked, "All the people that was [sic] rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today."
Love his game. It's impossible not to. But the "hate" is rooted in more than that.
is nothing more than him choosing not to be a Knick. I understand why he made his decision and I don't blame him for that, but I'm a Knicks fan first and if you aint with us, your against us. I "hate" him in the sense that I don't want to see him succeed, but there is no denying how good he is. I respect the hell out of him on and off the court. I don't care about his announcement(even though it was dumb). I don't care about his decision to team up with other great players(make no mistake, Wade and Bosh were great players at the time). All I care about is that he chose not to be on my team.
is nothing more than him choosing not to be a Knick. I understand why he made his decision and I don't blame him for that, but I'm a Knicks fan first and if you aint with us, your against us. I "hate" him in the sense that I don't want to see him succeed, but there is no denying how good he is. I respect the hell out of him on and off the court. I don't care about his announcement(even though it was dumb). I don't care about his decision to team up with other great players(make no mistake, Wade and Bosh were great players at the time). All I care about is that he chose not to be on my team.
So any player that isn't a Knick you hate? LeBron made the right decision and I hope he stays in Miami and goes for the 4 peat if they beat SAS.
For the most part I guess. I certainly don't root for any player
not on the knicks. I made it pretty clear that I think Lebron made the right decision as the Knicks are(hopefully were) an absolute mess. That being said, he was in a position to change everything and come to the Knicks and he chose not to. Therefore, he chose to be against us. Not every player has that choice and chooses to not play for my team.
that "hate" is strictly as a bball player. I'm not like a lot of these irrational nutjobs on bbi whos going to turn my hatred of a player into a hatred of a person. It's a freaking sport and I hope he loses at the game of bball. I don't hate Lebron the person and I don't root for him to fail in life. I actually really like him as a person and I think he gets a bad rap(not that I care).
When he is knocking down jumpers like that neither leonard nor diaw or anyone who has ever lived has a shot. And lets be clear about the leonard matchup.... since game 4 of last years finals he has torched him and all comers. Last 6 finals games vs sa (4 of which were on the road) hes averaging 31 a game on over 50 percent shooting
If he caps this series off we are looking at a goat short list playoff run. Never before seen efficiency from a volume scorer in a postseason.
Anyone in the national media today make note of the fact that duncan was blanked for the final 17 or 18 minutes of last nights game? Of course not. Example 1 billion of tim duncan, 21st century athlete, getting 1940s press treatment.
I might buy it if this hasnt been the case for duncans whole career. I saw prime duncan get a total pass for the biggest failure in the history of the olympic team in 04, something that still oddly sticks closer to lebrons legacy than duncan even though he was a teenage bench warmer on that team.
Duncan always gets passes because hes not threatening any legacies that people hold dear
I agree. Weve had this convo before. But when people talk about duncan flying under the radar its almost always within the context you present. It works both ways, this guy has never been dealt with critically at any stage of his career
Duncan's pretty much been lauded since he's been at Wake Forest
he had an unbelievable rookie year that launched him into premiere player status from the get go. You can't tell me that Duncan has been picked apart underneath the media microscope as much as Lebron has. Lebron's faced much more scrutiny ever since he was in Akron.
and was clearly the Alpha on that team despite Robinson still being a great player and veteran. And he played in little San Antonio that no one gives a shit about as we saw during the mid 00's whenever they made the Finals.
Winning early and often in a tiny market had a lot to do with his career.
Tim Duncan has had every bit the career that Larry Bird or Magic Johnson had. He is the MVP of a Finalist at the age of 38. He DESERVES to get passes at this point.
A lot of people give LeBron a pass for his 1st Finals performance. That was a historically poor playoff series for a star scorer in the Finals and it's never mentioned by LeBron haters because of his age. Age is why Duncan isn't getting too much hate now because he is clearly past his prime.
BTW the main reason LeBron sucked in that Finals? Tim Duncan's presence inside forcing LeBron to take contested outside shots with Bruce Bowen all over him.
RE: Duncan's pretty much been lauded since he's been at Wake Forest
he had an unbelievable rookie year that launched him into premiere player status from the get go. You can't tell me that Duncan has been picked apart underneath the media microscope as much as Lebron has. Lebron's faced much more scrutiny ever since he was in Akron.
LeBron is far more hated than Duncan ever was... but
LeBron is far more loved than Duncan ever was
LeBron is far more talked about than Duncan ever was
LeBron is the most popular athlete in America
Duncan never approached that status despite similar performance
It also deserves mention that Duncan came into a great scenario
David Robinson and Sean Elliot were past their peaks, but they brought playoff experience and leadership to the table. Sure, SA won the lotto, but they were essentially a playoff team that was blatantly tanking. I think organizational culture and stability is something that is not mentioned enough. That Cavs team was clearly outmatched and had no business getting to the Finals. Prime Duncan up against a plodding C with bad feet in Z. Parker with 5 years under his belt. Pop against Mike Brown (Yikes!). Manu in peak 6th man form. Cleveland had a cast that included the likes of Boobie Gibson, and Sasha Pavlovic seeing a lot of minutes in the Finals.
I believe the '07 Spurs are the best NBA team since the Shaq/Kobe Dynasty was in peak form. Duncan was slowly exiting his absolute peak but was still a dominant force. The rest of the team was very strong.
The '07 Cavs had no business beating them in that Finals. But that being said, LeBron did have a poor series even taking that into consideration. And it gets overlooked because of his age and situation.
Because it has always been this way. This could be his 8th or 9th series loss with homecourt
no one expects 03 duncan today. But hes still a beast, and playing in a matchup that lends itself more to him beasting than against anyone in the league. If they win this series, people wont treat his ring as any less deserved than lebrons even though the load is fractional to lebrons. When he goes out and drops 30 and dominate the first 30 minutes of a finals closeout game last year and then not score a point in the final 23 including ot, I think its fair to call him out on the disappearance. When he has 18 early to mid 3rd last night and doesnt score again, same deal
it's San Antonio, an afterthought of an American city (not deserved, IMO). In NY, LA, Miami, Chicago or even Dallas he'd have a stronger lens upon him.
Duncan has already won four rings and is a surefire HoF'er, so has little nothing left to prove.
Brodeur has had some brutal stretches in recent years. It doesn't get much attention because he plays in Newark and because he is a proven all-time great with an unquestionably great career to call out.
Even if you contend it's "always been this way." Well...he was winning so often and in such a dominant fashion that he never really had a Lebron v Dallas moment in his career.
Anyone in the national media today make note of the fact that duncan was blanked for the final 17 or 18 minutes of last nights game? Of course not. Example 1 billion of tim duncan, 21st century athlete, getting 1940s press treatment.
I am disappointed in you Joe. I called him right out after the game for a miserable last 3 quarters. He was absolutely dreadful and one of the main reasons they lost.
it's San Antonio, an afterthought of an American city (not deserved, IMO). In NY, LA, Miami, Chicago or even Dallas he'd have a stronger lens upon him.
Duncan has already won four rings and is a surefire HoF'er, so has little nothing left to prove.
Brodeur has had some brutal stretches in recent years. It doesn't get much attention because he plays in Newark and because he is a proven all-time great with an unquestionably great career to call out.
Even if you contend it's "always been this way." Well...he was winning so often and in such a dominant fashion that he never really had a Lebron v Dallas moment in his career.
He should also have to answer to the criticism that San Antonio has NEVER defended the crown successfully. There's something to be said to win the Finals, come in next season with a huge target on your back by the rest of the league, and still being able to win the championship. It kind of highlights your dominance during that stretch. To be fair to Duncan, I think 3 of those playoff exits following a championship were foiled by the Lakers.
I obviously forgot to add whining about Tim Duncan of all things, to he ridiculousness that is he current Nba thread
1) hockey fans hating
2) rangers fans angry his knocks fans angry thus hating
3) lebron slurp fest on performances we all saw and appreciated as awesome but need it regurgitated in every odd stat
4) hating Tim Duncan for a strange strange strange reason
Awesome! Another great finals and it's not even discussed here
When this conversation about tim duncan is construed as hating. I know its completely foreign to hear his name mentioned without the generic phrase "doesnt get enough credit" within the paragraph, ultimately the absence of which is perhaps too much for some peoples brains to process.
I dont hate tim duncan. Not as a player or as a person. Everything I said was completely accurate though.
One that miami will probably have to protect home court to win. But the more I watch these teams battle, the more I think the enhanced familiarity from 13 meetings and counting the last two years favors miami more than san antonio. Lebron has seen every defensive look pop can throw at him by this point and is out there just reacting with his counter attacks rather than over thinking things as he did early in last years finals when they packed the paint and went under every screen. Defensively theyve just got a better beat on the spurs motion offense which is unique and difficult to simulate without that familiarity, no one forces more rotations or causes you to expend more energy on that end
They could still very much lose this series but I like where they are more today than last year at this time
They should have been slammed for choking away the finals last year, which would have made LeBron 1-2 in the finals and subjected him to a lot more scrutiny then he is under right now.
As is the discussion surrounding any player that revolves solely on ring count or the even more backward line of thinking that treats finals losses worse than non appearances, the over protection of others legacies have led to some braindead moving of goal posts
Theres never been a player who impacted the game decisively more at the peak of his powers. The fact that the ring count has begun to reflect that level of play doesnt make him any better individually, it just gives mouthbreathers less to pick at. Had they won last years finals or not, he was the best player on the floor in the series decisively, even while struggling the first 3 games. You can call it a spurs choke all you want, I can also call it 5 of the best quarters ever strung together consecutively in finals play by lebron in the 4th quarter of game 6 and all of game 7. People who only want to recall the last 23 seconds of that game need to watch that game a second time. That was once a 15 point lead in that second half erased by one man going into god mode, scoring or assisting on 23 straight and shutting down parker on the other end. Dropping 30 with a triple double, something done just 3 times in finals history before it
not bailed the Heat out last year LeBron would have gotten killed in the media. And while I do like LeBron and feel the criticism of him sometimes is crazy, he would have deserved it. He was not good in that finals to that point.
had lebron not been amazing in the second half of that game
Ray allens shot would not have mattered. And thats why you have teammates. Those were about the only three points lebron didnt score or assist on in the last 15 minutes of that game.
1 minute left in the 3rd, spurs up 75 to 63. In the 18 minutes that followed including ot, the heat made exactly two field goals that werent scored or assisted by lebron. Two. One of which was the allen three. And in that time they outscored san antonio 40 to 25
San antonio is just clearly the better team. Everyone is going to make this about lebron because thats what people do (I will not bang my head against the wall combatting idiocy) I dont know that any individual who ever lived could swing the balance of this series in his place, hes largely been terrific. Miami is just overmatched, and theyre going to have a bunch of decisions to make this offseason. My suspicion is they dont have the balls to do whats right with wade.
San antonio is just clearly the better team. Everyone is going to make this about lebron because thats what people do (I will not bang my head against the wall combatting idiocy) I dont know that any individual who ever lived could swing the balance of this series in his place, hes largely been terrific. Miami is just overmatched, and theyre going to have a bunch of decisions to make this offseason. My suspicion is they dont have the balls to do whats right with wade.
Wade and Bosh.
In all honesty, hes better going off to Cleveland with Kyrie. Cleveland should trade the number 1 pick and look for a Love/Noah type player. Imagien Noah with those 2/
San antonio is just clearly the better team. Everyone is going to make this about lebron because thats what people do (I will not bang my head against the wall combatting idiocy) I dont know that any individual who ever lived could swing the balance of this series in his place, hes largely been terrific. Miami is just overmatched, and theyre going to have a bunch of decisions to make this offseason. My suspicion is they dont have the balls to do whats right with wade.
Miami do whats right with Wade when Wade is the one that has the two player options for 20+ million each year. They would need Wade to cooperate to kick him to the curb
Forget the obvious fact that the big 3 core is unsustainable, but the rest of this team is a mess going forward. Everyone talks about the spurs age but miami is the oldest team in the league, not the spurs. The roster is ancient and will need to be completely revamped very soon, and its most aparrent on the defensive end. Lebron, chalmers and cole are the only guys in the rotation on the right side of 30, and the latter two are completely replaceable.
I think hes going to stay in miami though, and unless riley has something up his sleeve, I think he will regret it
Wade is going to opt out this offseason whether we think it makes sense or not. I dont expect miami to be as coldblooded as they should be for a 32 year old with a bad knee who can probably never play more than 80 games in a season again (including playoffs), but lets see what type of deal they agree to. I dont think riley is going to pay him 85 plus percent of the max.
I actually could see Lebron opting in now and taking a wait and see
approach with Miami. I think he does want to stay there, but like MoM said, if he does there is a good chance he will regret it. It's probably in his best interests to put off free agency for 1 more year so that he will have a more clear picture of what the future in South Beach is going to look like.
Wade is going to opt out this offseason whether we think it makes sense or not. I dont expect miami to be as coldblooded as they should be for a 32 year old with a bad knee who can probably never play more than 80 games in a season again (including playoffs), but lets see what type of deal they agree to. I dont think riley is going to pay him 85 plus percent of the max.
If Wade opts out they aren't going to then kick him to the curb, and they shouldn't. He'd be doing them a big favor by opting out so you can't just then tell him to f off, if he opts out he will already know what kind of deal he's getting from them
but man these teams are on 2 different levels and the Heat look like shit. Non-Lebrons totally useless and even Lebron at times has been sluggish and apprehensive. But this series is more about the Spurs being awesome than Miami sucking.
I hope there's a rebalancing in the league this off-season. Would be great to see a more competitive East. Hopefully Rose can actually stay healthy.
For financial security, not out of the goodness of his heart. Right now someone will hand him a contract with a lump sum worth well more than whatever he is owed opting in even if spread out over more years. There is no guarantee he will command anything in a couple years with a chronic knee problem that already requires him to sit once every 3 games just to arrive in the playoffs in one piece. In 2 years I think he is a candidate to be completely irrelevant
isn't getting anywhere near max money if he opts out. He'd probably get like 12 million a year on the open market, which means he'd basically have to get 4 years 45 million on the open market just to make the same amount that he would make in Miami by simply staying these next two years where they owe him 42 million. The 3 million difference made up by no state sales tax among other things.
There is no upside to opting out besides taking less money to stay with Heat. He's not opting out to get more money elsewhere, because he won't get it. Chances are even 2 years from now he'll still be able to get 5-6 million from someone if not more. The ONLY way he would come out ahead by opting out and going somewhere else versus staying in Miami and playing out the final 2 years is if he has to retire after the next 2 years, and even then he would still probably break even.
once was, he's not a guy that puts people in the seats. You aren't going to sell your fan base on the direction of your team and get them to show up because you signed a 32 year old Dwayne Wade.
When wade was awful and lebron was passive and just a guy. Kahwi Leonard the best player on the court in the 2 most important games of the finals. Amazing
You are really underestimating how much wade could get annually especially with a rising cap. And miami would probably be willing to give him a 5th year, something like 5 for 75 or even 5 for 70 would be a paycut annually but still net him 30 plus mil more that he is likely to never see if he risks opting in and eventually hitting free agency at a time where his value is lessened.
On another note I dont know who the hell to name mvp of this finals for sa because you can go many directions, and none of them are having close to the series lebron is. I dont think we could see the mvp go to a player on a losing team in the 21st century, but there is precedent for it both in the nba finals and the superbowl. People may want to poo poo lebron and his 70 plus percent true shooting percentage because of the margins of some of these games early, but game 4 was his only down first half in the series. There is no spur playing nearly as well as him. This series is like the nba equivalent of a scene from nat geo wild where a cape buffalo is fighting off a pride of 12 lions clawing all over his back
The 2 biggest games of the series and Leonard was the best forward on the court.
Lebron stunk in the first half last night being passive when it mattered and compiled when it was a blowout. Game 3 was stat compiling as well with a solid minus 20 worst on the team.
He was awesome in game 2, MVP best in the work caliber play. Otherwise he has not stood out as even sniffing an m v p on a losing team.
The san antonio spurs are making 19 threes a game and shooting 47 percent from downtown. Thats why theyre leading this series, because of a team wide historic offensive display. Not because leonard has come close to outplaying lebron, who is shooting about 70 percent against him. Miami cant get stops against a 10 prong attack. Switch lebron and leonard and the spurs have this wrapped up with 4 blowouts
You cant dismiss lebrons 3rd quarter last night as compiling during garbage time, because if any other heat player could make a shot or if they could somehow ever string stops together, there was still plenty of time to make it a game. He was the only guy playing. When his team is outclassed to the tune of 20 point early deficits, thats not on him. He didnt have a great first half last night. He did have a great first half in game 3 and that did not stop a similar beatdown.
there is not 1 spur having close to the series lebron is individually. This is about the most efficient shooting from a volume scorer ever in a finals. There is not 1 player who ever lived who would change the outcome of the series in his place
anyway, hes not going to win mvp. But whoever does will have had the clearly inferior series. This is about the most balanced attack weve seen in the finals. A spur will get it by default, but its very tough to pick one
in three different decades. That's incredible. People get on the Spurs for not winning back to back, but the longevity of their relevance has been so impressive.
Would you not agree that either choice would rank among the few least impressive finals mvp series weve ever seen? Leonard has scored in the single digits in half the games in the series, and allowing lebron to shoot nearly 70 percent against him.
The spurs are uniquely built and a true team in the truest sense of the word. They are dominating a finals series without a single individual playing on an all nba caliber level.
only have one guy on their team who can create and they have too many older players who are not good enough or fit enough defensively to keep up with the barrage of competent weapons on the Spurs team. It's not that all the players on the Spurs are stars, just that they all bought into the system, are exceuting the system, and are doing the things that they do well.
An individual basketball player has more influence than in any other sport, but it still takes a team effort to win. And right now, Lebron's supporting cast just isn't good enough to beat a team playing at a level of team basketball that I have never seen before in my life.
I'm not saying this Spurs team is the best team I've ever seen-- because I think other teams with multiple stars in their primes were better. But this Spurs team plays better TEAM basketball than I can remember. If you're a coach at any level, this Finals is what you show your players to teach them about a team's potential when the players work together. It's beautiful. I keep looking to spot Steve Nash in black and silver.
I despise the Heat, but watching the non-Lebrons get destroyed only elevates my opinion of Lebron's value.
LeBron has easily been the best individual in the series. And there isn't one Spurs player that stands out, it's just a collective effort. Leonard is probably the guy who stands out the most but he had 2 really poor games to start it off.
I disagree. I think the Spurs individual players are playing at an extremely high level. However, because there is so much ball movement, their individual usage is lower and so no single player has to carry the load; or, the load isn't disproportionately carried by the few stars on the team such that would cause them to have eye-popping numbers.
Some player on the Spurs certainly could put up far bigger numbers, but it would likely be to the team's detriment and caused by taking less optimal chances than what they are doing by keeping the ball in constant motion until a player is open.
Lebron has to be gassed from carrying the team all season while Wade rested his knees, and now having to shoulder such a load in the finals because no one else on the team can create or play tough defense.
Leonard has been fantastic, and the Heat are just not capable of handling another Spur who can continually score. But how much of Leonard's offensive success can be attributed to the opportunity of the Heat focusing on Duncan/Parker/Ginobli as well as the excellent passing by Diaw to make it even easier for Leonard?
If you saw those numbers for a PF you'd think he was an awful player. But he makes such an impact in other ways that he's a net positive for that team.
LeBron needs to shoot a lot more to give his team a chance. Unlike younger Kobe who used to play to PPG too much, I think LeBron plays to a PER and TS% too much. It's evidenced by his refusal to take half court shots at the end of quarters. If his team starts out struggling again, he needs to gun for 50 even if his efficiency takes a hit. It's not like his team is scoring that efficiently anyway. And with him in score mode, his teammates will get better looks and their efficiency might go out.
The heat went a plus 2 without lebron in game 3 (minus 3 first half, plus 5 2nd half) thats the only game in the series they went a plus without him, and certainly not by any substantial margin.
paul, theres not a top 12 player on that team. Maybe not top 15. They didnt even have a player average 30 minutes a game this season, the first team in nba history to ever have that happen. Not just the first team to do that and win a title, the first team to do that period. They are incredibly deep, and obviously very talented, but their top end talent is definitely weaker than most title teams. That doesnt make them any less impressive a champion, or any less great of a team. But the composition of the team is an outlier among champs
I think the 1st in BBI history. Although obviously this was a season long thread so it's not fair to compare this to a Giants game thread. Still, pretty crazy.
The heats issues in this series are pretty much exclusively on defense. Theyve been scoring plenty efficiently, an efg% of 56 percent which is right in line with their regular season which broke a record. It is indeed somewhat inflated by lebrons off the charts 69%, but theyre down in this series because they cant get stops. The spurs are putting up numbers ive never seen. An o rating of 122. An efg% of 61. Shooting 47 percent from downtown on record breaking volume to boot.
miami has never had rim protection defensively and at this point are no longer athletic enough on the perimeter to compensate. This is an old team. The spurs are forcing them to rotate a ton with their ball movement and the defensive rotations are always two steps late leading to open looks. They dont cover the ground they used to and its bleeding great looks all over the place
The spurs are just playing great. Miami cannot catch a break for a defensive lapse because the spurs make them pay every time. Theyve hit plenty of tough contested looks too. They are the better team, but theyre also absolutely playing to their ceiling too. You really cant execute any better. This has been a clinic
Who actually still gives miami a shot? I absolutely dont see it, would love nothing more than to be wrong. If they can somehow win game 5 which I just dont see at all, things suddenly get interesting and pressure builds on the spurs. Miami has been awesome when facing elimination in the past, but theyve never been in this deep a hole vs this good a team
Who actually still gives miami a shot? I absolutely dont see it, would love nothing more than to be wrong. If they can somehow win game 5 which I just dont see at all, things suddenly get interesting and pressure builds on the spurs. Miami has been awesome when facing elimination in the past, but theyve never been in this deep a hole vs this good a team
Quote:
Spurs in 5
AnotherGiantsFan : 6/5/2014 9:18 pm : link : reply
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they have the higher A game and they have the best player in the series. The Spurs tend to be a team that looks beautiful when they're on but limited when they're off. 3-1 is a huge hole and I'm not giving Miami a large % chance, but I think they have a 20% chance of coming back from this.
But I did vaguely hear something about lebrons ankle needing treatment after the game. As if the odds werent already real low. Dont know if its a huge deal though
I give miami about a 5 percent chance. If they somehow ever got game 5 id probably bump that to about 30 percent
20% is too high. After two straight drubbings, a Heat win would indicate that they figured out a way to counter what the Spurs are doing since putting Diaw in the starting lineup (whether cause or coincidence, I don't know). As such, that would improve Miami's odds dramatically going forward. But as of now, it appears that the Heat have no answers for stopping this Spurs offense. They have too many guys who can hit wide open shots on the perimeter and so it's not leading to many fast break opportunities or transition basketball where Miami usually thrives.
has been the best player in the series, but I wouldnt even consider giving him a MVP for the series, espercially if the Spurs win in 5. Those two games were just flat out blowouts, at home nonetheless.
I would give it to Leonard right now, with Diaw a close 2nd. Duncan would be probably be around 4th. He has rebounded well (what big doesnt against the Spurs?) but offensively, he has been meh for 3 games now.
You are right that the defense is the bigger problem but their team offensive efficiency is down from 110.9 in the regular season to 106.6 in this series. In any case LeBron can't make up for his team aging and getting outplayed on defense by himself as much as he can on offense. They're going to have to win some shoot outs and I think LeBron is going to have to take more shots for that to happen.
In fairness I didn't realize SA was as good as they were
Defensively during the regular season. They were the 3rd best defense, so it's to be expected that Miami's offense would drop off.
One thing about the heat I don't get is why they can't use Bosh more effectively. He was an elite offensive player in Toronto, and I don't think he was an empty stats kind of guy. Scoring wise he was basically a prime KG level player. With Wade fading, he should be the clear cut #2 guy and putting up 20 PPG. Is it just him playing out of position at center? Does his game not pair well with LeBron's (certainly should fit better than Wade, no?).
San antonio is being led in scoring by tony parker. Led in rebounding by tim duncan. Led in assists by boris diaw. Led in fg% (min 7 attempts per game) by kawhi leonard. Led in steals and threes made by danny green. Led in plus minus ratio by manu ginobili
lebron leads the heat in every categorie listed
chris, you also have to account for the fact that san antonio has better than league average defense, so playing to their regular season o rating against them would require an above ordinary effort. Obviously it is possible for them to play better offensively though, im just saying theyre getting beat defensively
I would have a problem giving him mvp too, letme be clear. Im just saying this is one of the most deserving cases for a guy on a losing team that we have ever seen. This is the 26th finals I recall consciously watching, and I can never recall a player being so definitively the best player on the floor and still winding up on the losing end. Without doing a ton of research and just going off memory, 04 shaq is the only real comparison. And his team lost in 5. Chauncey billups walked off with an mvp but shaq was hands down the best player in that series
I would have a problem giving him mvp too, letme be clear. Im just saying this is one of the most deserving cases for a guy on a losing team that we have ever seen. This is the 26th finals I recall consciously watching, and I can never recall a player being so definitively the best player on the floor and still winding up on the losing end. Without doing a ton of research and just going off memory, 04 shaq is the only real comparison. And his team lost in 5. Chauncey billups walked off with an mvp but shaq was hands down the best player in that series
Shaq in the 94 playoffs was pretty awesome too, but they got swept. Hakeem was clearly the MVP, but he didnt come close to stopping Shaq either.
San antonio is being led in scoring by tony parker. Led in rebounding by tim duncan. Led in assists by boris diaw. Led in fg% (min 7 attempts per game) by kawhi leonard. Led in steals and threes made by danny green. Led in plus minus ratio by manu ginobili
lebron leads the heat in every categorie listed
That is a fantastic summation. Thanks for sharing.
Miami on the brink of elimination. LeBron is one of the greatest elimination game players in history, I wonder if he can pull out another legendary performance at the right time.
But it'll take more than LeBron and the Big 3. The Heat role players have been slaughtered by the Spurs role players in this series, those other Heat players need to step up.
I didn't think they'd win 3 games until January.
Anthony Davis is the truth
It's incredibly weird how hard you are critiquing a guy who just came back. I'd love to see him play better but I'm going to give him 15-20 games before I draw any conclusions.
It's incredibly weird how hard you are critiquing a guy who just came back. I'd love to see him play better but I'm going to give him 15-20 games before I draw any conclusions.
Wasn't the point of him missing the entire year last year to avoid looking like this? If it was going to take him 15-20 games this year then he should have just played last year.
good lord he looked great in preseason, and now the real games start, its a huge shift. the team is also getting used to playing with him again. there is certainly a feel out process there too.
Very great to see MCW excel early. Turner is playing great as well and hawes is giving them great spacing. Its early and they have no depth at all, but a really impressive start. MCW might be a perfect compliment to turner especially with a shooting big.
Ok so then he sat out just for fun? The whole time we constantly heard he wasn't coming back until he felt like he could play at the level he's accustomed to. Apparently he's still not there and it's going to take "15-20 games", so why not start the process last year like Shumpert did for example. Shumpert looked like shit for a good 2 months when he came back, but this year he looks to be his old self right out of the gate.
But I wouldn't throw him off the edge just yet. This is his first few games back where defenses are actually trying to stop them. He will come around and be his old self in no time.
That's when it will suck for everyone.
And now after 3 games people are up in arms about it is hysterical. Over analyzing at its finest, nothing more.
Let's also remember Noah, Butler, and Hinrich missed a good part of the preseason. On top of that, This is Rose's first year truly playing with Hinrich and Butler. This team just needs some time to get in sync.
MDJ is struggling a little, but so did Korver. He will eventually pick up the system and be a huge part of our team.
On the bright side, Boozer and TAJ are playing fantastic for the bulls. If they continue this play, they are going to be one tough team to beat down the road.
The finishing at the basket will come. But his shot looks terrible, and is turning it over way too much.
Westbrook back today. 1 Month ahead of schedule. Kevin Durant (.371 FG% and 4.5 TOV over 2 games) has been missing him.
Durant is still an awesome player and MVP of that team, but I love how this little Westbrook absence has allowed people to see how great a player Westbrook really is. It's good for the team because there will be less second guessing about Westbrook taking too many shots or dominating the ball too much.
Not really a surprise that Durant misses him.
He would shoot more often and would at most see a very modest efficiency dip. Maybe he goes 48/38/90 rather than 50/40/90 because he has to take on more volume. The guy is still a lethal shooter with a release point you just can;t bother. I don't buy that Westbrook drastically effects his FG%, short sample suggesting otherwise aside. I love Westbrook, and they need him to contend. But just speaking purely statistically, he is not that kind of classic set up man despite making strides here, and takes a lot of shots away from KD. And in the absence of Westbrook, we would see Durant also pile up some assist numbers that he doesn;t currently, just as he showed in last years postseason
Durant shot 54.8% from the floor during that time.
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And I completely agree with MoM's analysis. Durant would probably score 33 PPG on reasonable efficiency without Westbrook and get bounced in the 1st or second round.
But he's arguably the GOAT off-ball scorer already. He doesn't need the ball in his hands to thrive. Westbrook allows Durant the ability to take it easy and play off the ball and not worry about spending energy worrying too much about creating off the dribble for himself and others.
Durant might be able to survive without Westbrook for stretches in games, because he's capable of spending extra energy for short spans. But over the course of a full season I think he'd really miss Westbrook and we'd see his efficiency stats take a slight dip.
There is a formula called SRS that basically combines strength of schedule and point differential. It's a formula to gauge a teams strength in the regular season. Last year's Thunder not only led the league, but were the 8th best team of all time in this stat. Of the 7 teams in front of them, everyone won the title except for the 72 Bucks. And that's only because they lost to another team on the list (72 Lakers). They ran teams off the floor last season. They almost set a post-merger record for double digit wins, they wound up just 2 behind the '96 Bulls team who won 72 games
Otherwise Steph Curry had a triple double tonight. The Cavs top pick Anthony Bennett had another rough night and is 0 for 15 to start the season, that has to be near some sort of record
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Clips look improved from last year though, Blake was hitting jumpers. That's the key. If Blake hits jumpers the Clips could be the best team in basketball and a legitimate Championship contender. If Blake bricks his jumpers, the Clippers are nothing more than a 2nd round team. This is a HUGE season in Blake's career.
The PF position is absolutely loaded right now. So many studs around the league.
Their D is still a big question mark though, unless Dwight can recapture his Orlando form and single-handedly carry them on his own. And Harden needs to start trying on defense, that play when JJ blew by him and got to the rim before Harden even moved his feet was as bad as you'll see.
Will be interesting to see what they do with Asik. He's a very valuable player who's pretty redundant for Houston.
26.5 pts 13.3 ast 3.8 rebs 3.3 stl 51.7% FG 37.5 3pfg And a PER of 37.8
Oh, and he's 38 for 39 at the FT line
Dwight is also back physically. I'm really not worried about the Rockets D that much, they were playing well before this beatdown last night.
The big question with the Rockets is Asik. What do you do with him. Originally I wanted to trade him for a true PF with outside shooting skills, but I've grown to prefer having Asik on the team. Having him and Dwight gives the Rockets 48 minutes of elite rim protection. That will be huge come playoff time. Plus some of their main competitors out West (Spurs, Clips, Grizz) use two true bigs at the same time often.
It's just not worth it. Even if Anderson is a better fit next to Dwight, Asik is the much more valuable player as a true Center with elite defense. Plus they have Casspi, Parsons, and Garcia who are all capable of playing a stretch 4 role.
Asik and Dwight have looked ok playing next to each other but they really haven't been doing it a lot. Through 4 games (192 mins), I'd estimate that Asik/Howard have been on the floor together for about 50 of those minutes.
24/6/5 on .500 shooting + 3 threes
32/6/5 on .474 shooting + 4 threes
21/13/3 on .471 shooting + 3 threes
Putting up those offensive numbers while being an All-D first team caliber defensive player.
I'd take him over Harden. I'd take him over Curry. I'd take him over Kyrie. I'd take him over a lot of guys at this point.
If Paul George maintains his current play, Melo's not in his stratosphere.
Still early but the difference between the two doesn't seem like it will be nearly as wide as I first thought.
Indiana vs. Chicago is a playoff matchup that I desperately need to see this season. It would be a 7 game bloodbath.
That said there were moments during the Knicks series where George was an absolute terror on Melo.
Its going to be war at 7:00 Wednesday Night. Just want to see progression from Derrick. less TOs, better defense, and hit a jumper or two.
If this spike holds up, he's got the 3 spot on lockdown.
At the moment though, Melo is just that much better offensively that its hard to overlook. And while George is better defensively, perimeter defense isn't as valuable or impactful on team defense as big man D is. Certainly not valuable enough to make up for the significant gap in their ability on offense. Although that gap appears to be closing, its still early
If Melo takes 1 step back offensively and George jumps 2 steps offensively, George would be the better player.
Anthony Davis is the other. I've never driven a bandwagon this hard before. But I think Davis could end up better than either Duncan or KG. Which would make him a GOAT candidate. It's hard to talk with his cock in my mouth but I'm telling you this guy is going to be a legend among legends. If this was the stock market the time to buy stock is right fucking now.
Anthony Davis is the other. I've never driven a bandwagon this hard before. But I think Davis could end up better than either Duncan or KG. Which would make him a GOAT candidate. It's hard to talk with his cock in my mouth but I'm telling you this guy is going to be a legend among legends. If this was the stock market the time to buy stock is right fucking now.
I like it when people make bold statements like these.
I dont agree, but it will be fun to tease us if you are right, or take some jabs when you are wrong.
But if he stays healthy, I don't see anything stopping this freight train.
In real life? Lulz
Not saying he's there yet. But he's got a more complete skillset than either KG or Duncan and I think he could easily be better than both of those guys in his prime. Being better than Duncan/KG means you're a GOAT candidate level player.
His weird background probably helped his skillset in a ton of ways, he was like a 6'0" guard and then sprung about 10 inches in 18 months (maybe not exact, but its something similar to that). This isn't a big man who came to basketball because he was big. This is a guy who formed the foundation of his skillset when he was an average sized PG and then had an insane growth spurt. You can easily see that influence on his game
Senior year HS: Becomes #1 overall prospect in 6 month span due to growth spurt
Frosh yr College: Wins National Player of the Year, Final 4 MVP + title, #1 statistical offensive player in nation, #1 statistical defensive player in nation
Rookie NBA: Best PER for teenager in NBA history despite battling injuries
2nd yr NBA: Should finish around 18/10 on 50+ FG% and 80+ FT% with all world D as long as he stays healthy
...
...
...
7th yr NBA: yep
2010 22.2
2007 22.1
2006 22.0
In terms of efficiency rating last year was Melo's best by about 12% better than the next closest. Not an insignificant amount
2004 ----- 14th -- 52nd -- 1st Rd Exit
2005 ----- 0 ----- 54th -- 1st Rd Exit
2006 ----- 0 ----- 18th -- 1st Rd Exit
2007 ----- 15th -- 17th -- 1st Rd Exit
2008 ----- 13th -- 16th -- 1st Rd Exit
2009 ----- 0 ----- 24th -- WCF Appearance
2010 ----- 6th --- 11th -- 1st Rd Exit
2011 ----- 0 ----- 16th -- 1st Rd Exit
2012 ----- 0 ----- 21st -- 1st Rd Exit
2013 ----- 3rd --- 4th --- 2nd Rd Exit
For all the hype that Melo has had over his career, this is a guy that only finished in the Top 10 of the MVP vote once in his career before 2013 despite making the playoffs every single year of his career. This is a guy who advanced past the 1st round only once despite having pretty damn talented teams around him (not a T-Mac or KG situation where they were surrounded by crap). When Melo was traded with the Knicks, most people viewed him as somewhere between the 10th-15th best player in the league.
There's a reason why the league suddenly voted Melo 3rd in the MVP vote and why he finally broke the Top 10 in PER in emphatic fashion by finishing 4th. Sure part of that had to do with down years from certain superstars, but the majority of it had to do with Melo developing a much more team oriented game.
His stats don't even tell the whole story. Melo's passing was so much better last year than any other year before. He's a guy who was a Barkley-like pound the rock over and over again player who took 10 seconds before making decisions on whether to shoot or pass. Last year with the Knicks everything was quick with Melo. He made decisions really fast and he probably led the league in hockey assists last year. The Knicks' 3pt shooting barrage had a lot to do with Melo's decision making. With previous versions of Melo, the Knicks offense doesn't have nearly the year it had last year.
I'm a little surprised that there isn't a hockey assist stat anywhere at this point for basketball. I really want to see where Melo ranked last year. Melo still has this stigma of not being selfish/not a good passer, and this stat would put a lot of that to rest IMO.
I have a little bit more trouble saying Davis will be better than Duncan than I do Davis being better than KG. Because Duncan's low post game was so diverse and creative and dominant. Garnett had a good low post game but it wasn't anything special like Duncan's.
I don't know if Davis can develop that Duncan-like low post game, I don't think we will. But he is a much better PnR player. And he does have low post skills because of his great touch near the hoop. Plus the big reason I'd say his ceiling trumps Duncan is because he is a better shooter already. Duncan is a great player but his jumper is a little inconsistent and led to many low efficiency games for him. You can look at his FT shooting over his career and see all the ups and downs. Career .693 FT shooter.
Davis has a .767 career FT mark so far and is 19/20 from the line this year while making a ton of outside jumpers with good form. He's closer to KG as a shooter than he is Duncan. Except he's already a much better finisher and PnR player than KG ever was.
I'll chill with the Davis talk for now and let it play out. But I just think so highly of him and his future.
Off the top of my head, Tim Duncan is ironically a guy who probably ranks up there with anyone on the career hockey assists list.
Lebron's biggest game of the year thusfar, 35 pts 8 rebs 8 ast on 13/20 FG
Paul George with another encouraging night and the Pacers are 4-0. 31 Pts, 10 Reb, 4 Ast on 12/18
Monta Ellis's is ballin for the Mavs this year. Maybe being with a solid organization on a team with vet leadership rubs off.
Brook Lopez 27 pts in 25 minutes in a Nets blowout win. It's early but KG looks like crap early this season, hes admitted it himself. Only played 14 minutes tonight, dont know if he got hurt or what
Anthony Davis 17 pts 11 reb and 5 blks. Rough shooting night (5/14).
Eric Bledsoe had an excellent game for the Suns. I love seeing him get a shot to run his own team now. Entering tonight he was averaging 22 pts and 9 ast, shooting the ball poorly (40%), but going 10 for 12 from the floor tonight will do a lot to boost that.
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Year after year, teams win with good defense and specifically their best players playing, or at least attempting to play, good defense. If you want to win, you got to buy in defensively. There's really no way around that, but apparently Harden doesn't get that.
A lot of young big scorers don't have their "come to jesus" moment on the defensive end of the floor yet when they're Harden's age. The ones who do were fortunate to be brought up in a defensive culture, which Mchale obviously hasn't cultivated yet in Houston. Some never have that moment. Some try but are inherently limited by their athleticism or frame.
Given how good Harden is offensively, he doesn't need to be an all nba lockdown defender to still have massive value and for the Rockets to contend. Plenty of teams are good defensively with a suspect perimeter defender or two getting heavy minutes for them. But he can't be having breakdowns within the team structure where guys are just running free off the ball because he's doing god knows what
Harden doesn't have to be prime Artest, but you got to show your team, which outside Asik, Howard and Beverely are pretty lousy defenders, that you, as the teams best player, are committed to defense and therefore winning.
But I'll also quote Jeff Van Gundy when he often likes to state team defense is about two things above all. Coaching and rim protection.
It's about the culture the coach sets, you either have a defensive culture or you don't. And they certainly have the rim protection with a healthy Dwight. Big man defense is just much more important than perimeter defense. Dwight Howard is more impactful to a successful team D than Jordan, Lebron, Pippen, go through your list of best perimeter defenders. Those guys can help limit one player, Dwight Howard can take an entire offense out of the paint.
If they';re not top 10 defensively theres a problem with McHale
I dont expect a W at Indiana. But I am going to hope for some progression from some of their players. Derrick obviously has to play and get better. Hopefully a few less turnovers and a few more Jumpers made.
But curious to see how Deng/Butler guard George, who is all-world right now. And Hibbert/Noah should be a fun matchup as well.
Based on last night, I'd say that Utah is a 1st-pick contender that hasn't gotten enough recognition - they're horrible. Hayward and Kanter are pretty good offensively, but they've got a lot of bad players getting major minutes. And Kanter got absolutely destroyed by Lopez on the block - not sure if he's that bad defensively or Brook just had a really good game.
The Bulls were the team of the 90s, Indiana had an excellent run as an Eastern power throughout the decade. Yet they only met in the playoffs once, the 98 series where Indy almost pulled off the upset. Just flukey the way it worked out that way. They met in 2011 again but the Pacers were just a sub .500 8 seed just getting a program off the ground, not nearly yet in the position they are today.
I'd love to see these teams meet over 7 games in the spring.
Tuesday they play Duke on ESPN. That's my first crack at him
Some good games on tonight. Bulls/Pacers will be fun to watch.
Also Boozer leads the league in FG%.
He's definitely being hyped more for his physical tools than his overall game. He's a guy who barely shot above 60% from the line in HS. He really needs to work on his shooting. But his physical tools are easily the best we've seen from a wing player since LeBron. He really needs to improve his shooting and apparently his 2 way effort. But all the tools are there. I'm just not so sure that Bill Self was the right guy for him to go play under. I've always felt Bill Self was the Les Miles of college bball. Both a bit of a compliment and insult.
I watched in on my computer. He dominated. Clips couldnt throw it in the ocean though. Reddick was off and Blake shot nothing but jumpers.
I predicted this would be my fun team to watch this year. They have done nothing to disappoint so far.
6.4 rpg
30.4% FG
22.4 mpg
I haven't seen enough of their games live to comment on his defense, and hes only playing 22 minutes. But holy crap
This is going to be a defining year in Deron's career. Off to a really bad start.
Looking at box scores is great and all, and KG has been brutal missing his 15 footers, but good lord... have some understanding of what is going on before judging deron so far this year. and frankly the "imagine if melo" or comparing every net scenario to "what if the knicks"... good lord... makes me want to puke.
the nets arent trying to be a 1 man band... so he is not going to have numbers... likely good numbers for him end of year will be 16 points and 8 assists... the only player likely to have impressive scoring numbers will be lopez, and he is playing 27 minutes a game so far as well.
the subbing pattern last night was just awful... and at the end of the game they had the "who should we go to look" with awful movement and spacing, that is indicative of a team feeling eachther out with new players + new coach.
they also have struggld against quick backcourt teams... which lucky for them is more the bottom barrel east conference... not the top teams who they match up better with
The Nets acquired a top 3-4 PG, and he hasn't looked like that for any prolonged stretch other than the 2nd half of last season. And he backed that up with an underwhelming playoff series that his team had no business losing. A series where he was at certain moments played to a standstill by Kirk Hinrich and had a lesser impact than Nate Robinson
I know Deron had ankle issues that held him out of the pre-season, but since he's always banged up you can't just ignore the injury and assume he'll be back to All-Star form in a week or two. Especially since he has been so inconsistent recently.
He had an amazing 2nd half last year despite a so-so playoff series, I thought he'd be able to carry that momentum into the start of this season. This little ankle issue has made sure that won't happen.
The bottomline is that despite all the roster moves and Brook's emergence into a very good player, this team is only going to go as far as Deron Williams takes them. Biggest year of his career so far.
i think its beyond stupid to evaluate his season at this point. I agree its the biggest year of his career so far. I also feel that this team wont be playing elite basketball until they realize the offense should run through deron and brook and the rest of the guys are compliments... but that is yet to happen.
And Melo 100% gets too much crap here, but that has nothing to do with deron. and linking it is just silly. he has had a competent supporting cast and been healthy for half of a season during this stint... and he was excellent. the first round of the playoffs were an epic failure, but lets see how it evolves this year.
The leadership on the Rockets was a ? at the start of the year and remains a ? now. Howard is not a leader. Harden has limited experience as a leader. McHale has won 2 playoff games in his head coaching career. Leadership and experience might come back to bite them in the playoffs.
But I also think this is an overhyped situation because of the names involved. Dwight Howard and Jeremy Lin. Any story is going to be overhyped if it involves one of those two, this story involved both of them. I guarantee you that the Miami Heat Big 3 rip into Chalmers behind the scenes. It's ridiculous how much they yell at Chalmers on the court, they treat him like a bitch. Sometimes star players just get on their teammates, especially if it's an inexperienced PG who has to run the team.
Dwight and Jeremy have built a nice connection in the PnR game with each other, their on court chemistry offensively has been good. Even if Dwight's people are leaking "we want a better PG" rumors (if they even are), Lin's been good enough.
Right now the only consistent offensive force is Lopez, who has been fantastic. Everyone else dips in and out. Pierce would be 2nd and he's been pretty good. Deron does need to make more of an impact either through scoring or creating. The rest of the guys are going to be in and out of games, almost operating like huge name, overqualified role players who might score 18 one night and 6 the next.
Even after watching almost all of the games, I'm a little surprised to see how bad Garnett's #s are. He seems like he's doing better than that - maybe it's just because as a fan you like having him on the team, looking cool in the uniform, giving high fives, being vocal, etc. Offensively, he's basically been a jump shooter - I'd bet there aren't many players in the league who have a higher % of their shots as 18-21 ft jumpers than KG this year. And obviously he's not hitting enough to be effective. Plus, they're really, really limiting his minutes - he barely played against Utah once the Nets got a big lead and he didn't even play most of OT yesterday, which is very rare for big-name players, even older guys on minutes limits.
They've played one good game out of 5 (Miami). The Utah game was just a complete talent mismatch. They can't continue to lose these road games against mediocre opponents. But it's 5 games and there have been some good things out there, so I'm not ready to change my pre-season opinions just yet
Indiana tonight. Indy 6-0, putting up beyond unfathomable defensive numbers (opponents shooting 37% and only allowing 90 pts per 100 possessions, 84 per game) with Paul George averaging over 25 a game (though coming off a couple rough shooting nights off a very efficient start).
The way they're playing right now, Miami would need epic LeBron games and really good shooting to beat Indiana. The Pacers defense is incredible and now that Hibbert is allowed to jump into players as long as he keeps his arms relatively straight it has become very difficult to score on them. Great job of branding at the defensive end with the whole "verticality" thing by Hibbert/Indiana. Obviously, it's very early though.
If he can go around 15 minutes a night as the back-up center when Chandler returns, and maybe 15-20 minutes at the 4, he is going to create some serious matchup problems.
That also gives Woodson the option of going bigger or smaller based upon matchups. Then, the team's considerable depth at the 1-3 begins to have an impact. I have real faith that a healthy JR is going to be a bear to guard by anyone, and eventually I see JR and Shump getting time on the court together at the 2-3.
Can they beat Miami/Indiana? Nah. But they would be back in the running for the fourth seed--third if Chicago doesn't come around. The Nets are good, but not imposing right now.
Lopez better than advertised, Williams worse, and Garnett maybe at the end of his career. Too early to tell on that, but the signs aren't great. Everyone hits a wall eventually. Pearce was sick last night, so he gets a pass.
I swear, as a Celtics fan, I feel like I almost enjoyed that win as much as any win in the Big 3 era.
Will Howard start crying in Houston playing in the forward spot?
Philly looks like they can rebound pretty well.
Yeah, they dont need Dwight.
20.9 ppg
7.3 ast
4.4 rebs
52.2% FG
25.6 PER
He is off to a way better start than Kentucky teammate John Wall
Ricky Rubio with a .318 FG% but with 8.7 APG and 3.6 SPG over 34 mins. His FG% issues are scary, anything below .400 is pathetic. Anything below .350 is borderline impossible. He needs to improve his shooting a lot but the 81% FT shooting so far in his career indicates that he does have what it takes to develop a good shot down the line.
Rubio has the skills to develop into a Rondo-level PG in this league one day, maybe better since he's an 80% FT shooter. He could dominate the APG and SPG categories in a way that only Stockton and CP3 have done. But he really needs to fix his scoring issues.
If he's able to make that jump in the 2nd half and Love and Minny keep this up, they will be a very dangerous 1st round team for someone. I'd love an OKC vs. Minny matchup.
fun fact... they have never played against each other.
14/5/5 line on .482 FG shooting including .500 from 3 so far (2.1 3s per game so he's shooting a lot of them).
They look really really really good right now.
They've dominate the first tenth of the season.
9/10ths of the season left so a long time but this has been a ridiculously impressive start.
But speaking for real, I don't think they're the best team in the league. I don't care if they finish with the one seed and get homecourt through the playoffs. I still have major questions about their half court O. I still question whether Paul George is ready to be the alpha on a team who wins a title, even though i love his ability and he's off to a fast start. They're still below league average on offense right now even during this hot start
He does that again with Indy playing at this level and the Pacers win that series in 6 unless LeBron does something crazy for even him.
Long way to go and the Heat should still be #1 in terms of Vegas Championship odds. But the Pacers are a clear #2 at the moment and have looked much better early on.
I think SA is better than them too. Im reserving judgement on some other teams out west because they all have question marks, but i feel like Indiana is a known quantity to me.
2. ????
3. Championship
I don't think last years Heat series going 7 games is representative of how the two teams stack up at full strength. Wade was severely diminished, Bosh struggled mightily (in what is admittedly a bad matchup for him), Hibbert had the best two weeks of his life. Indy had three of the top 4 players on the floor in the series and still lost. They had a perfect storm go their way. A healthier Miami will be better this May/June. Of course, its no lock they will be healthy. But when im judging these teams im going to assume they will be. They won't chase the 1 seed like Indy and it won't matter. I also would like Chicago over them once they get rolling, which i fully expect to happen
Rose still struggling offensively, but locked down Irving on defense.
Both games on ESPN
Even though Minnesota lost, I came away from it thinking they might be pretty good, like winning a playoff series good. Kevin Martin isn't the greatest player in the world, but he's exactly what they needed. They're a very interesting team.
He's gotten a few DNPCDs this year but Spo has given him run of late and hes had some monster stretches. In the Boston game this weekend he scored on like 4-5 consecutive trips down the floor. I've never been a big fan but he gives them something they really haven't had... A role player outside of the big three who can semi consistently go 1 on 1 and create his own offense without needing to be set up.
He'll probably still register DNPCD's now and then throughout the year but watch him have a playoff game where he explodes for 25 off the bench and helps them win a big game
27/14/5 on .482/.356/.847 shooting (2.3 made threes per game) for a 6-3 Minny team
He's our NBA MVP through the first tenth of the season. Back with a vengeance after an awful and injury plagued 2013.
Power Rankings (in terms of Title odds as of today):
1. MIA (5-3)
2. IND (8-0)
3. SAS (8-1)
4. CHI (3-3)
5. LAC (6-3)
6. OKC (5-2)
7. HOU (5-4)
8. GSW (5-3)
9. BRK (2-5)
10. NYK (3-4)
Brooklyn and NYK and even Memphis who I'd have at 11 were all teams projected to be 50+ win contenders but who are struggling right now. For now I still have them ranked ahead of teams that were less hyped in the pre-season but are playing better now like the Wolves, Mavs, Blazers, Suns, etc. But the two NY teams need to step it up the rest of the way.
Parker
Randle
In that order, but obviously we need to see more.
1. An out of nowhere team to make the playoffs as a potential high seed.
2. Unreal stats.
3. Feel good story.
4. And not to stir anything up, but if Love finishes with 25-14-5, as a "white" basketball player - people are going to vote for him.
They kicked our butts in the most classy way playing the right way, Nene said, fuming following the clinical destruction of the Wizards by the selfless Spurs. Its crazy, thats what makes me mad. Our young guys think theyre so smart. But if I was young, I would watch video of that game for one week to see if I could learn something, because the way they play is how youre supposed to play."
They not talented as us, Nene continued. They have great players, a great team, but the way they execute things, the way they cut, the way they exploit weaknesses, swing the ball. They dont think about stats. We still think about stats. Our young guys must take their heads out their butts and play the right way, because Im getting tired of this."
On another note, its very early. Too early to draw any conclusions, but anyone notice how much league pace has ticked up this year? Fastest pace since '94 early this season. Over 95 possessions a game, significant rise from recent seasons
Tier 1: Heat/Pacers
Tier 2: Bulls
Tier 3 : Knicks/Nets
Tier 4: everyone else.
If NO is terrible this year, despite Anthony Davis' excellence (which btw should tell you something about what LeBron was able to accomplish in Cleveland), then the league lucked out with their trading away their first rounder.
Yeah, I hate to turn this into a "race" thing, but a white American hasnt been this good since probably Bird. The hype will only increase as the year goes on.
Not the best start to your 2nd year after you had an all-time bad rookie season.
23/6/3 so far with nearly 50% from the floor. I dont know if Philly is going to want to rebuild with him. Him or Thad Young will be traded and they may actually get some good value.
24.6 ppg Efg% of .547 (46% from floor, 56% from three)
OKC misses that 3rd scorer in the Harden/Martin role desperately. I don;t like this Thunder team as much as the last two years because of it. They'll still win a ton of games, and probably could still make a final, but its going to be a much harder climb
As for Love, Ive been somewhat hard on him in the past because I've never seen an NBA player put up such monster numbers and have them translate to so few wins. Even with a garbage supporting cast, you average 20 and 15 your team should win more than 17 games. For this reason ive always been hesitant to rank him where he probably deserves. He needs to stay healthy, and he needs to make the playoffs. He does that and he has arrived.
Minnesota has the 3rd best point differential in the league - might be too early to judge these things, but that's a good sign for them.
Perfect way of putting it Jerry. And they're doing it with Duncan actually off to a pretty shitty start, been dinged a little too with chest/shoulder/neck issues
Looks like year 16 in a row with 50+ wins (with the lone exception being the 99 lockout year and only because it was just 50 games, they went 37-13 and won a title). They even won 50 in the 2012 lockout year 66 game season
Regular season wise, probably the best stretch ever. Not even russsell's celtics held on for this long. And it sounds silly to say it, but its somewhat disappointing they "only" won 4 chips. Considering all the close calls. Hell if Dallas doesn't get an improbable 3 point play late in game 7 in 06 from Dirk, and fisher doesn't hit that improbable .4 shot against them in 04, they could have 5-peated from 03-07. And then last year they come closer than anyone ever came to winning a title that didn't
I never liked them. Ive learned to never doubt them again. But i respect the hell out of them
Shane Battier, on Heat's Christmas sleeved jerseys, "First of all, they're really sexy. They accentuate my chest hair."
Then Battier tweeted out this pic
I hate this shit. Golden St has tinkered with it, i think it looks dumb.
But who knows, maybe years from now this will be the future and sleeveless jerseys go the way of short shorts
That "jersey" Battier is wearing is hideous, the Bulls one looks pretty cool as far as these type of jerseys go.
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I think Dwight goes off for like 28 and 14 tonight
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I think Dwight goes off for like 28 and 14 tonight
So much for that. Took just 1 shot in the first half and passed out of every double team the Knicks threw his way. The only time i remember him getting 1 on 1, he drove on Bargnani and got called for a charge for lowering the shoulder
Cavaliers might be the most disappointed team in NBA this year. Kyrie has not taken the next step.
Chalmers got ejected for a forearm on Dirk, probably get him suspended too. (Dirk looked great by the way). Wade set a career high with 8 steals.
Lebron had 39 points on just 18 shots. He has been insanely efficient this year. Through 9 games he is shooting 61% from the floor, 52% from downtown. He has been coasting some this year playing through a sore back, but his postgame looks better than ever. The form on his jumpshot looks better than ever.
dominant 2nd half for lopez, early "season saver".
Indy had a nice run, but their streak is about to end. George was off and Rose was on.
Lebron shoots 13 for 18 tonight, a day after shooting 14 for 18. Ty Lawson 28 pts and 17 ast in a loss at Houston. Dwight had 25 pts on 6 FG attempts, which must be some sort of record. Of course he shot a ton of FTs, didn't see the game but assume it was Hack-a-Dwight. Wiz drop a game at home to the Cavs, just a brutal start for them.
John Wall
This could be, for like year number 8 or 9 in a row it seems, the best version of Lebron. His jumper is insane right now, and his form has never looked better. His postgame is way more advanced now than ever as well. He is now a legit post player
Lebron for everything MoM has stated.
KD because of his insane scoring ability. Improved rebounding and passing.
Kevin Love - for everything that won Derrick Rose the MVP (plus skin color)
James undoubtedly will be the favorite. But if KD can get to 31-32 PPG and 8 boards, it will definitely make him a factor. If Minnesota can play as a top 4 seed, and Love puts up video like numbers, he will be considered as well.
Even though voters will never take this into account.... if I was a voter, I would have to put conference toughness into affect. The east looks really down this year. Indy is obviously good, Chicago will more than likely be good as well. After the top 3, I see a real drop. Knicks are just a mess right now. Nets are old, very old. Cleveland/Washington have not taken the next step. Atlanta and Detroit will battle to see who loses to one of the top seeds. East is not that impressive.
However in the west.... You got the Clips, Rockets, Spurs, Thunder, TWolves, Warriors, and Portland playing at high levels. Yoou got teams liek Phoenix and NO that are young and exciting. This doesnt even include the Lakers and Grizz trying to overcome some problems of their own.
The West is far stronger this year, so IMoo if Love and KD put up ridiculous numbers, my vote may have to swing towards them.
Shooting efficiency isn't as mainstream as it should be, so i could easily see voters relying on basic averages and team success like they usually do. But this efficiency is out of this world good. forget just wings, no big has ever shot this well from the floor on this volume scoring. Shaq never even shot as well as Lebron is this year (although he came close). For a wing though this is completely unheard of
However if it continues to nag him throughout the year, Spolestra would be stupid not to give him some games off, especially ones on back-2-backs.
They really shouldn't be playing Wade on any back to backs though. He looked awful last night, but they had to play him because Chalmers and Allen were out and they were thin at guard. Wade looks more like 2013 playoffs Wade than 2013 regular season Wade, and thats not a great thing. But their depth right now is probably better than i ever recall it being. People still think big 3 when it comes to Miami, but im more impressed with their depth than their star power after Lebron
Someone explain their strategy and if this is like Bird retiring or if Ainge has a good plan.
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9-2 now, if they beat the Bucks they'll have an unbeaten Eastern road swing. And they're doing it with Lillard shooting under 40%, although team wide they've been very hot shooting threes this year. Aldridge 22.6/9.2/.486 FG.
The Nets are now 3-7. I know they're banged up, but sooner or later you gotta start winning some games. And its an ugly 3-7, Brook Lopez is the only starter playing well and hes out now along with Dwill (who given his recent history will probably be playing with some nagging stuff all year). I was real high on the Nets in preseason. Its too early to jump ship. But im like 70% of the way to just admitting defeat on that one. They'll probably still be a playoff team, but i thought they would win 52-54 games (their over/under was 52.5). At this point they better start playing well soon or its going to be tough to even match the 49 they had last year
Julius Randle has the capacity of being a low-post scorer and a stretch 4, which makes him one of the most promising power forward prospects in years.
Randle has averaged 20.5 points, 14.3 rebounds on 62 percent shooting in his first four games at Kentucky.
"I think he's the surest thing in the draft," one GM said. "There's nothing he can't do and there just aren't that many bigs in the NBA with that set of skills. He's going to be a 10-time All-Star and will make a major impact on your team in Year 1. Wiggins might have a little more upside and [Parker] is so attractive as well, but if you take someone else, you're really risking your job."
Ive only seen Wiggins play once. I haven't yet seen Randle play. But i find it really interesting how many anonymous scouts and GMs we keep hearing from that are downplaying Wiggins position as the sure fire top pick
But we're really hearing a lot of stuff from anonymous GMs and scouts who are throwing water on the Wiggins fire. He has also once already been benched by his coach for effort issues, which was a knock you heard from scouts before he went to to kansas
From what I see, however, I think he's a guy who has a good feel for basketball but needs to tighten things up more. Physically he's more talented than a guy like Paul George with a tighter handle already. The jumpshot is always fixable and you can't teach that potential release point. I don't think anyone would be a fool for picking Parker or Randle over Wiggins. There are certainly argument to be made. But I do think Wiggins' upside (on both sides of the ball) is much higher than any of these guys, especially given that he does try on D and there's evidence for that.
That franchise sucks. All the time. I will never pick them to win 45 + games. Never.
I think Rubio got benched in the 2nd half tonight. I was at the game, so I don't know if he got hurt, but he was playing awful and didn't get on the court much late in the game.
I thoroughly disagree. I think he shows a surprisingly good handle and decent passing ability. His shot needs work and perhaps he needs to be more aggressive, but I think you completely underrate his skill level.
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I don't think you take a wing #1 because he can defend and is an elite athlete.
I thoroughly disagree. I think he shows a surprisingly good handle and decent passing ability. His shot needs work and perhaps he needs to be more aggressive, but I think you completely underrate his skill level.
You may have watched him more than I have but I have not seen a surprisingly good handle. In any case you're basically describing Darius Miles with a better attitude - a nice complimentary player on a team with a #1 option. I still don't think you draft a wing #1 based on athleticism a good handle, ok passing and good defense. I don't think that he shows the scoring skills or instincts to project him with confidence as the kind of wing worthy of the the #1 pick.
Randle vs Texas-Arlington
22 pts 10 rebs 4 ast 7/12 FG.... The 10 rebounds is actually his season low
Parker vs ECU
21 pts, 9 rebs, 6 blks, 8/18 FG 1/2 3pfg (which makes him 13 for 19 this season from deep)
Wiggins vs Iona
13 pts 7 rebs 3 ast 4/9 FG
smart
Parker
Randle
Wiggins.
the difference is Wiggins is not asked to do as much at this point. That will likely evolve. Parker looks much more polished then Wiggins. with Parker the first thing you speak of is his bball game... with wiggins, to me its his athleticism.
With smart, he just seems a heady complete player, who would have been clearly the best player in the draft last year.
regardless... its a fantastic year of talent in college hoops. first time long time.
Yep, I came here to say the same thing. Marcus Smart is a beast. Getting overshadowed by the Freshmen, but he is a baller.
Jabari Parker may have the highest floor of any prospect since LeBron. But I think a lot of us including myself underrated his ceiling. He is a better athlete than I thought he was going to be in HS.
At this point, I think his ceiling is a better Paul Pierce. Paul Pierce is a HOFer who has career averages of 22/6/4 in 1111 career games, a better version of that makes for a pretty damn ridiculous player. That's a really high ceiling for a guy known for having an insanely high floor.
I still think Wiggins has clearly the highest ceiling of this class because of his physical tools. He's built to be a terrorizing scorer with plus skills outside of scoring. But how much better than "better version of Paul Pierce" is Wiggins' ceiling? How much better does it need to be to make up for Wiggins' higher bust potential and lower floor?
I'm still firmly in the Wiggins as #1 camp, but I'm slowly starting to consider Parker as #1 because I think I underestimated his potential. Randle is a beast too but I still need to see more of his defense before really comparing him to Wiggins/Parker. And Marcus Smart needs to be in the mix too.
10 career matchups
BG: 24.6 pts 9.8 rebs 3.9 ast 53.5% FG
KL: 19.8 pts 13.4 rebs 3.3 ast 41.4% FG
Anthony Davis last night 22 pts 9 rebs 8 blks. He actually leads the league in PER right now, marginally ahead of Lebron
Portland now at a 10-2
The Mavs looking reborn with an awesome comeback win against the Rockets. Monta Ellis has been an awesome addition and Dirk looks the best he has in a couple years. They're 8-4 right now
Miami wins again without Wade... They're 26-5 in the Lebron era when Wade is out and Lebron plays
I can't even comprehend how good he is going to be at his peak.
A lot of people expected him to make a jump this year because of how much he beasted against Miami in the ECF. I think that will forever be the series of his life. He is still an amazing defensive presence though
Sixers while not very good, are actually pretty entertaining to watch.
they have buried mirza telotovic's career... despite him being the best scorer in europe. great job. just pathetic.
this team was supposed to be similar to last year and add vets to be role players... now role players are having to be stars... awful. maybe blatche can dribble more that would help too. he doesnt even post up. get him off the court
They lead Indy by 8 at half. Jordan Crawford is in a crazy shooting zone right now, just nailed a long three at the 1sy half buzzer
joe johnson
toko shengalia
plumlee
blatche
just embarrassing.
30-14 after 1. and the game gets turned off at this point.
Down 3, 3 seconds left, catches the ball in the corner of the floor, hit a piroutte turn around fall away 3 to tie it. haha.
I guess thats what Milwaukee does too a player.
Anthony Davis 17 pts 13 rebs 3 blks. New Orleans is now 6-6 and on a 3 game win streak.
If you erased track records from your memory and only judged guys off the first 4 weeks of this season and nothing more, Anthony Davis is a top 5 player in the nba right now.
He has been a very bad this year despite popular opinion.
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I fully expect the Bulls to trade Deng if it is an ACL. The problem is they still may be good enough to make the playoffs in the horrific east.
Doc Rivers and the Clippers have to be on the phones IMMEDIATLEY for Luol Deng.
Nick Friedell works for ESPN Chicago
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Good source tells me #Bulls fear it's a torn right ACL for Derrick Rose. If so, unlikely he will ever be the same.
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Rose looked to be in considerable pain. Not putting weight on the knee on his way to the shower. Teammates very concerned.
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Rose walks out of trainer's room on crutches.
Early word on Rose is initial tests suggest acl tear on right knee. MRI to confirm soon. This is bad.[/quote]
Also former NFL team physician David J. Chao is pretty certain on twitter that its a torn acl
Review of injury mechanism on @drose shows ACL tear type mechanism. Short left step, overstrides on right side and slight buckle. Hoping not
MRI pending on @drose left knee. ACL tears can be diagnosed accurately with physical exam. i believe #Bulls already know the bad newe. :(
He has more tweets (like 10 or more) on it
Just brainstorming and not really thinking of potential compensation or trades that work under the cap... But as Dep said Deng would be a sweet fit for the clippers. Carlos Boozer would be a nice pickup for Houston. I'd assume the Bulls would want to hold on to Noah but that makes it tougher to tank
Noah has 1 ideal spot, IMO - but its never going to happen. What team in the league needs a defensive presence and a rebounding animal who requires next to no shots and is a total energy guy?
Hint: They have won back to back championships.
Glad UConn is tourney eligible.
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Repair, miss 4-6 months, miss the rest of the year.
On another note, just glancing at the standings, amazing the Spurs are 11-1. That team just glides to 60 wins each year like it's nothing. I doubt they win a title, and it will be tough for them to come out of the West, but they are an excellent regular season team.
Guys like Westbrook, CP3, Griffin, and Lin had the same injury. It sucks to say this, but I agree. Get it repaired and strengthen it and come back next year.
Id be worried about his psyche right now as much as anything
Lebron hit a game winner tonight vs Orlando
Someone explain their strategy and if this is like Bird retiring or if Ainge has a good plan.
"I believe that professional sports leagues should work together and fund studies to determine the efficacy of HGH for rehabbing an injury," Cuban said. "Working together could lead us from the path of demonizing HGH and even testosterone towards a complete understanding. It could allow us to make a data based decision rather than the emotional decision we are currently making. And if it can help athletes recover more quickly, maybe we can extend careers and have healthier happier players and fans."
This is starting to look like Paul George's season to own.
11 for 14 shooting and 35 points. Back over 60% from the floor. A shade under 50% from downtown. And a career high at the FT line at 80%
Yet you take a look at their numbers, and I'm not sure a single guy deserves to make the all star team. Parker is the only one who has a shot, but the PG depth in the West is crazy. They have been incredibly bizarre to follow since Duncan exited his prime. Classic example of "whole greater than the sum of the parts". Easy to overlook, and in the post prime Duncan era they haven't made you pay for it come playoff time, until last year when they F'd around and almost won a chip. So you have to take them seriously
But I don't even know what to say about them, other than Poppovich is amazing and their system is incredible in a sport where talent just about always trumps scheme. Tim Duncan is even playing like shit this year and they keep rolling along.
Kyrie should not be shooting 41% from the floor.
Anthony Bennett has bust written all over.
Cleveland has no shot at getting Lebron whatsoever.
I still can't comprehend why the Cavs picked Waiters ahead of Barnes in 2012. Then Bennett. I think the GM (Chris Grant) is prone to over-thinking. Or else the Cavs are tanking (:
I pray that they trade him. He is not a number 2 option, and now the Bulls will be in desparate need of another scorer since Rose probably will never be the same. He'd be an ideal fit for Clippers.
Signing him to 10 million a year, just keeps the same players at a declining level.
John Wall just won player of the week. Tonight they won their 3rd in a row. They're now just 1 under .500 despite playing a very road heavy schedule to date
Pacers tonight held the bobcats to 31% shooting and 74 points tonight. Their defense to start this season is historic level good. Hibbert is such a DPOY lock. Barring injury, Hibbert is a bigger lock to win DPOY this year than anyone is to win anything, including Lebron and MVP
Nice job by the Lakers holding it down without Kobe this year. I didn't think they could play .500 ball especially against the very tough sked theyve faced (5th toughest in the NBA entering tonight).
Michael Beasley has been awesome for Miami this year. This is by far the best bench the Heat have had
So I am going to try unjinx another PG who's team is struggling. Where you at Kyrie? Sucking ass in a lot of games this year.
Yea
Knicks now with the 3rd worst record in the nba and losers of 7 straight..
Amare, either STFU or retire. Preferably both.
Bo Jackson lives up to his potential as an NFL RB and he isn't as good as LeBron is as an NBA player. In a dumber generation, LeBron is the best TE in NFL history on top of being the best NBA player since Jordan. Once in a lifetime athlete who has combined skill with talent in a way that is unheard of in his sport, a sport that consists of the best run-jump athletes in the world.
But it's a long ass season and we all know it depends on Wade's healty. He gets injured and Paul George and Indy are going to be ready to jump all over a LeBro-only squad in the playoffs. Wade stays healthy and it's still going to be a War with Indy.
Derrick Rose better get himself on track soon. This is a guy who had an age 22 season that was probably better than LeBron's age 22 season. It was a pretty fucking sick year. An in his prime 26 year old LeBron put him in his place in the playoffs but that's nothing to be ashamed of. Since that point it's all been downhill for the dude. He really seems like a real person, not a bitch like some of these fake ass famous athletes. Definitely rooting for him to reclaim his status as one of the baddest guys in the game.
Melo's a great player but he needs fucking help. The shitting on Melo articles will be out in full force these days but it's not Melo. It's everyone else. Give this man a great PG and defensive help and you'll get a Hall of Famer.
The Rockets are still gonna make it outta the West, sorry ladies. Happy turkey day.
Bo Jackson lives up to his potential as an NFL RB and he isn't as good as LeBron is as an NBA player. In a dumber generation, LeBron is the best TE in NFL history on top of being the best NBA player since Jordan. Once in a lifetime athlete who has combined skill with talent in a way that is unheard of in his sport, a sport that consists of the best run-jump athletes in the world.
But it's a long ass season and we all know it depends on Wade's healty. He gets injured and Paul George and Indy are going to be ready to jump all over a LeBro-only squad in the playoffs. Wade stays healthy and it's still going to be a War with Indy.
Derrick Rose better get himself on track soon. This is a guy who had an age 22 season that was probably better than LeBron's age 22 season. It was a pretty fucking sick year. An in his prime 26 year old LeBron put him in his place in the playoffs but that's nothing to be ashamed of. Since that point it's all been downhill for the dude. He really seems like a real person, not a bitch like some of these fake ass famous athletes. Definitely rooting for him to reclaim his status as one of the baddest guys in the game.
Melo's a great player but he needs fucking help. The shitting on Melo articles will be out in full force these days but it's not Melo. It's everyone else. Give this man a great PG and defensive help and you'll get a Hall of Famer.
The Rockets are still gonna make it outta the West, sorry ladies. Happy turkey day.
In the past couple years when people spoke of improvements in Lebrons post game, it was all relatively speaking. He didn't have a postgame, so when he began to develop rudimentary skills down there it was considered progress, even though it was more strength based than skill based, and therefore more low post than mid post, and limited to select matchups where the guy guarding him was giving up a ton of weight. Like all the guys OKC threw at him in the '12 finals, or Paul George last year in the ECF. At this point he has that MJ turnaround from 18 feet over either shoulder down pat. And the elite 3 point shooting which seemed somewhat anomalous last year and probably likely to be his peak distance shooting year, has not only been maintained but improved upon. He is legitimately an elite pure shooter at this point
Check out this chart of the true shooting % of the top 25 usage rate players in the NBA
He said this was the best he has ever been entering this season, and hes backing it up. This is also the best supporting cast he has ever had if Wade stays healthy. Miami's depth is just incredible this season. The only thing staying in the way of a Miami 3peat is health. And even then, they could probably still win with a 75% healthy D-Wade just like last year. Because the rest of the team is that much better.
I watch a lot of Knicks, Nets and Cavs games (guess I'm a glutton for punishment), and Mike Brown seriously has no idea of how to run an offense. That makes it difficult to evaluate Kyrie, Waiters and Jack.
NYK: 107-83
DEN: 121-66
Denver owns the the Knicks first round pick this year.
I think often about the probability of the Knicks being better without Carmelo. My uneducated guess would be 60-40.
And if you honestly think that the Knicks would be better without Melo, then you know nothing about basketball.
It amazes me that people still think that Melo is the root of all problems on the Knicks. This is such a disappointing fanbase.
Please tell me one player in an sport who has done that? Anyone?
Or you can just go back to enjoy watching the Knicks fail this season.
They are a team without a superstar (or even anything close to a superstar) in a league that depends so heavily on a superstar. They didn't win anything when they had Melo as their lone superstar, now you seem to think that they can win without him?
And please stop propping up Donnie Walsh as some great savior. He did an awful job for the Knicks. Selling off all the Knicks assets for pennies on the dollar just to prepare for Lebron, isn't exactly impressive. And then only to strike out and vastly overbid for Amare when nobody else would even touch him? Yeah, but he's great because he didn't want to do the Melo deal. You know, get the guy who got us to the second round last season.
Yes, disappointing.
I think the Knicks could have waited the Nuggets out. I wasn't against the deal, just thought that the Knicks could have come out with a better roster by using their leverage. The worst case would have been not getting Carmelo and keeping Chandler, Felton, Gallinari and their 2014 # 1.
(Which could turn into someone like Marcus Smart, or, if lucky, Randle, Parker or Wiggins.)
The other scenario would have been getting Carmelo in July 2011 (with or without losing Tyson), and keeping the pick and the players. It's not a sure thing in any analysis, but it's an interesting what-if.
And, I'm sorry, but in what world is it a good plan to keep that mediocre team in place for another three years with the "hope" of getting a stud player in the 2014 draft? It's great to think back and say that this would have been the worst case scenario, but if those are the types of decisions this organization is making, then we would have a much bigger problem.
But to me, I think that the coaching (aside from the injuries) is the biggest problem on this team. This Knicks team isn't that much different than last season. And I fully believe that we actually improved from last season. I know that a lot of people say that the lack of veteran leadership (Kidd, Wallace, Camby, Thomas) is a big hit. But you can't tell me that having veteran leaders (especially veteran leaders that rarely play and when they do play they are awful) is going to be the difference between a 35 win team and a 54 win team? Come on, that's just ridiculous.
This Knicks team shouldn't be this bad. I have seen so many offensive and defensive breakdowns that just shouldn't happen on any pro team. Either Woodson has lost this team or his lack of offensive/defensive coaching is horrible. It's probably a combination of both.
But mostly we need another superstar or near superstar player to help Melo. I'm not sure who's available in 2015, but we'll have the cap space to add someone so hopefully we can put it together then.
Great game, two awesome ones between the two teams.
About to tip off vs the clippers (who found out today Redick is out 6-8 weeks)
Pacers next 6
@ Clips
@ Por
@ Uta
@ SA
@ OKC
Miami
If they go 3-3 there thats a hell of a job
Ummm.... the West seeding will go down to the last week guaranteed. Between SA, LAC, OKC, Houston, and GS....... there is a shit ton of good teams there.
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but my god the NBA regular season is so meaningless. We already know who the top teams are. Its basically about following young players develop and stat watching your favorite player for 82 games before any real drama of consequence begins.
Ummm.... the West seeding will go down to the last week guaranteed. Between SA, LAC, OKC, Houston, and GS....... there is a shit ton of good teams there.
Do we really need 82 games to determine seeding? And its not like seeding is that important. Lets get to the games that really matter ASAP.
Thats what I call a pretty good game.
His status on the all-time list slows down.
The only thing they can do is fire Woodson, and it needs to happen immediately. This is pure fucking garbage
Ive actually watched more TWolves games lately than the Bulls. TWolves always seem to play a good team when I have a night off. Ive seen them play Clip, thunder, Rockets, Warriors, among other teams. Always an entertaining game. Hell, I watched them play the Mavericks last night. Was very fun to watch.
I thought their goal was to tank and get a big pick and not be in purgatory. Isn't that what they should be doing?
Wouldn't it make more sense just to tank?
In the NBA nothing is worse than being a 8-12 seed annually.
I think tanking is more of a fan thing then reality. Teams definitely do it, but not right out of the gates, and certainly not 15 games into a new HC's career in the NBA.
1) they are playing teletovic as i have been clamoring for, and hes playing well
2) blatche is posting up
3) lopez is back
4) pierce is out as he has been AWFUL, which helps joe johnson
- they are not far out and the division stinks so the pressure level is not as crazy as one would expect given performance/expectations.
that said it aint rosy for sure and they look like dog squeeze.
A team may hold out injured players longer than necessary, and who knows if they go that road with Rondo. A team might tinker with their rotation late in the season once they are eliminated from contention. But tanking is never quite as blatant as people think. And this conference is going to have a tough time eliminating Boston from playoff contention
I have a tough time believing a deal is there to be made for two reasons
1. Bulls can get a better package elsewhere
2. It would be bizarre to see OKC all of a sudden change course on their small market nature.
I'd love them to lose every game the rest of the year, but I still see them winning 38-40 games and being in playoff contention (if they don't make any big trades).
Kobe was cleared about two weeks ago, and you're starting to hear rumors he will be back this week (Friday is the date mentioned)
Howard.... not so much.
Pacers start their brutal trip 1-1 with a win at the clips and a close loss in Portland. Thats about as good as you can ask thusfar
Where are you seeing this?
He's by far the teams best player now, and the Bulls will be in full tank mode without him, which is another reason to trade him.
Mirotic (best European player), Charlotte's early teens pick, the Bulls own lottery pick and whatever return is gotten for Deng is a nice way to restock the shelves around Derrick with Noah, Butler and Gibson still on board.
Try and pick 3 all star PGs from the West this year, a few deserving guys are going to have zero shot. Lawson is probably one of those who will meet that fate.
Lillard, Lawson, Westbrook, Dragic will be left out, but RW may be voted in:
How about pick some shooting guards:
Harden is a given
Kevin Martin has had a monster year
Monte Ellis deserves consideration
Gordon Hayward has been much improved
Klay Thompson
Lawson has just been awesome. But its very crowded between guys with better numbers and guys on better teams who will get recognized for that.
When asked by Sean Cunningham about his availability for Friday, Cousins sarcastically said "Probably not. I think I'll be out rest of the season and I can get a comeback commercial."
Shots fired D-Rose. Joking or not
Blazers are for real. They're not going to be the 1 seed all season, but thats a 50+ win team. 16-3 with some monster wins under their belt now
The FT shooting is pathetic but if he can ever get that shot to become respectable he would be a great player.
He's become so caught up with efficiency and not being selfish that even in a game where his team clearly doesn't have it, he doesn't go for 40 and try to will his team victory, even if it means shooting 12 for 30 or something like that.
Similarly, he fails to take end of quarter half court shots, probably out of the same concern for efficiency numbers.
Regarding careful shot selection and an unselfish and selective nature on offense... Efficiency is the Heat mantra. Lebron's FG% isn't the only one on the Heat skyrocketing in recent seasons. Take a look at Wade, take a look at Bosh. Career high territory. Everyone talks about their star power, but the dirty little secret about the Heat is that their ball movement is Spurs like, they don't run much isolation at all. They lead the league in assist rate this year, they were 3rd last season (when they also set an NBA record for adjusted FG%). They play team ball, work both sides of the court and look for the best shot they can get
Lebron may not break from that structure on a December 5th game against the depleted Bulls. But in big spots we have seen him flip the switch back to "Cleveland mode" more times than you can count in the playoffs when it is required. His career scoring average is higher in the playoffs than the regular season. And Mavs series aside, the bigger the situation the more "Cleveland Mode" comes out. See the comeback against Boston from down 3-2 in 2012. See the Indiana series last year when Wade couldn't give them anything and he had to take on more of a scorers mindset. Or when the bigger the game got in the Spurs series, the more he took on that scoring role as other guys struggled. Including in game 7 where he set a record for points scored in a game 7 finals win. He is the leading scorer in history in elimination games and game 7's.
And If there's one thing id rather have a guy care about above all else, its being efficient. That's not shiny, that's not glamorous, no one gives a shit but stat nerds and coaches. He would gain more acclaim by averaging 30 on lesser efficiency which he totally could do every single season.
How can that be construed as anything but a bad move for the team?
I don't think the best player playing to maximize their TS% in every game necessarily maximizes their teams chances to win in every game.
As for maximizing efficiency not being the best for your team... One title this year away from having the best 4 year team run since Bill Russell's Celts tends to disagree. 53-6 in the last 59 regular season games hes played tends to disagree.
Let me just ask you this - if you were a Miami fan, would you be happy with LeBron only taking 17 shots tonight?
Do you think D-Wade and Chris Bosh are protecting their FG% while posting career highs? And unlike Lebron these guys arent even big volume scorers any more. This is the way Miami plays. They are the antithesis of what people claim to hate about the nba. They take good shots, they don't play hero ball (although Lebron will when the situation calls for it in big playoff spots) they share the ball and work both sides of the floor, make the defense rotate. They post GOAT level adjusted FG%'s, not because its going to gain them any extra acclaim, but because thats the basic point of offense. Maximizing each possession
I can't find data for this year, but last year they ranked a very average 13th in % of baskets assisted.
And again, your point that because three elite players are winning means that LeBron is taking the exact optimum number of shots is pretty thin. In a game like tonight should he or shouldn't he have shot more?
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And if you spent a second watching last years playoffs or the 2012 playoffs, youd know Wade or Bosh both spent significant time laboring through one issue or aonther, and Lebron had to and did take on a bigger scoring role when necessary, But you want to build a point around December 5th against chicago and call my point thin. In other words, you saw something shiny tonight
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I'm not sure why you're so defensive about LeBron. Do you really think he's an infallible player and, with respect to this issue, shoots the exact right amount every single game?
You'd probably agree with me that another all time great, Kobe, has probably shot too much over the course of his career. Do you really think its that far fetched to say that LeBron has a tendency to shoot too little?
I think our usual pro - anti LeBron routine probably prevents us from making legitimate points to each other on this topic.
I also think the topic of the optimum number of shots per player is interesting. I'm sure there's been some research on it. Obviously the more shots you take, the more difficult shots you have to take, but on the other hand, the fact that they are difficult means that teams are dedicating more defensive attention to the player which opens things up for teammates.
The fact that we;re discussing this only through the lense of raw scoring output is a flawed way of thinking in and of itself. Lebron's ability as an amazing and willing passer has elevated every offense he has ever played on to a different level. He has been the defacto PG on every team he has ever played on (and im just talking offense here, forget the versatile defensive assignments he has to draw or the rebounding load he has to carry). I think you just are stuck in a mindset molded from Jordan's style and Kobe's immensely watered down imitation as to what a dominant wings mindset should be. Lebron has a different set of skills and responsibility. And in terms of overall impact, he dwarfs Kobe and rivals MJ's peak, even though i don't think you can make a case hes clearly better.
2. The Heat are one of the worst regular season teams to watch on TV, because you never know if they are going full tilt.
3. Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier will continue to be some of the worst regular season players, and then turn into all-world players once playoff time comes.
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Boston absolutely smacking Denver. 39-15 after 1.
You guys think Cleveland would consider trading IRving to another team? Not even the Knicks...just curious.
He also doesn't play defense much. I'd like to see how he'd do in a real offensive system.
I know Indiana played Miami tough last year, but when Miami needed to in game seven they abused them.
The Heat have the best player in the NBA and in my opinion the "Goat". However I think the Pacers are a better team. It'll be fun to see which matters more come playoff time.
I am not going to steal Joe's thunder, but Lebron is doing some insane shooting this year. Just a tad under 60% from the floor and 45% from down town. He is at 26.5/6/6 and his FT shooting is improved. But...
Kevin Durant is doing some work this year.
28/8/5. 47%/38%/88%
If he can somehow get it to 50/40/90 like last year, it will be tough to ignore him.
The proposed deal involves seven players, with the Kings sending John Salmons, Greivis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes to Toronto in exchange for Gay, Aaron Gray and Quincy Acy. It was required to be a large trade to accommodate Gay's salary, which is more than $17 million this season.
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The proposed deal involves seven players, with the Kings sending John Salmons, Greivis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes to Toronto in exchange for Gay, Aaron Gray and Quincy Acy. It was required to be a large trade to accommodate Gay's salary, which is more than $17 million this season. Link - ( New Window )
Interesting. I guess McLemore/Gay/Cosuins is an interesting trio. They need a PG though. If I am a guy like Rondo, I'd consider them in my FA look.
1. MIA (16-5)
2. IND (18-3)
3. SAS (15-4)
4. OKC (14-5)
5. HOU (15-7)
6. LAC (13-8)
7. POR (17-4)
8. GSW (12-9)
9. DAL (13-8)
Denver and Phoenix are in the mix for that 10th spot, but I can't see either team winning a round in the playoffs. Two very fun teams to watch with 2 young PGs leading the way.
Both teams are better than the Wizards imo, but the Wiz play in the much weaker conference so they have a far better chance of sneaking into the 2nd round. As of right now, I think the Wizards are the 3rd most dangerous team in the East. So the Wizards would probably get the 10th spot in this list but I see 9 contenders right now.
Memphis, Brooklyn, and the Knicks are the 3 teams who have disappointed the most this season. I still have all 3 teams in the Top 15 but that's based on what they "can" do, not based on what they have shown this year. Memphis is always a dangerous playoff matchup and one of the Knicks or Nets are still likely to get a number #4 seed and get homecourt in round 1. With D-Rose down, the #3 spot in the East is wide open and I expect the 2 NY teams to be back in that picture as the year progresses.
MVP Race:
1. LeBron
2. George
3. Durant
4. Paul
5. Aldridge
LeBron is better than ever offensively, but George and Durant are having monster years. Both guys aren't too far behind LeBron. CP3 is having a great year but the Clips don't look like the 60 win team many projected and as good as Aldridge has played, he's not on the level of the 4 guys above him here and I doubt he gets higher than 5th all year.
Hibbert looks like he has the DPOY locked up already as long as he keeps this up and stays healthy. It's pretty clear that right now, he is the best rim protector in the game and the anchor for the best D in basketball.
MCW is the ROY right now be a decent margin, but I expect one of Oladipo/Burke/McLemore to get hot and really close the gap. I think it'll be Oladipo at the end of the year.
MIP right now was Anthony Davis by a mile before he went down. Paul George may deserve the award again this year which would be crazy. There are other guys who have improved a ton. But this is Davis' award if he returns, stays healthy, and plays at a similar level as he did before the injury.
I don't see anyone else entering the race. Not sure the clips will win quite enough for CP3. I expect the Blazers to level off and be closer to 50 wins than 60 wins. The Spurs will get a top 2 seed in the West but won't have an MVP candidate
If i had to handicap it i would probably make Durant the favorite, because voter fatigue is a real thing, and Lebron probably has to decisively be the MVP to get the MVP. If its close, tie generally goes to new blood, which would be KD. Plus Lebron is playing a career low in minutes this season and that may not change. The Heat want to lessen the regular season road on him given the amount of basketball he has played of late, basically 4 seasons worth of basketball in the last 3, and the olympics
1. Durant 28.9 .474/.376
2. Lebron 25.4 .594/.444
3. Melo 25.2 .431/.294
4. George 25.1 .478/.423
5. Harden 24.6 .449/.302
The difference in efficiency for Lebron vs the other volume scorers is wholly unbelievable. Just ridiculousness. Yet at the same time, im not sure how much that actually breaks through to the typical MVP voter. Efficiency isn't really mainstream. Guys win these awards on a combo of raw individual stats plus team success. Lebrons raw stats are actually down this year. He isn't shooting as often, he isn;'t playing as many minutes. And his rebound numbers are down because he hasn't been as willing to mix it up with the sore back at times
Jeff Zillgitt (@JeffZillgitt) December 9, 2013
Divisions in the NBA are utterly pointless. I have been saying this for years. They most often don't even come into play at all except for the odd instance where they wind up screwing someone over once every few years
You don't play your division rivals any more than everyone else in your conference. Hell when you click on the nba standings from espn, they don't even list by division as the first option. They list by conference, which is how 99.9% of nba fans view the league landscape
win 8 games in a row and will be back at 500... gulp
Heat are 3-3 this season without Wade. But 26-7 overall in the Lebron era with Wade out in games that Lebron does play in
Lebron's energy level on defense this year was at a season high in that first half. He has erased Paul; George in this game, although their help defense was very good too.
Pacer defense has been awesome in this quarter
He has been pretty "meh" so far considering the hype, he is pretty damn raw skill-wise for such a talked about prospect. But his upside is still worthy of the hype imo.
He has been pretty "meh" so far considering the hype, he is pretty damn raw skill-wise for such a talked about prospect. But his upside is still worthy of the hype imo.
Self needs to tell Wiggins to shoot more. I watched the whole game. They tried to work through the big Frosh who was horrible tonight. Wiggins should get 20-25 on that team no problem.
Unless Miami can find a way to get him out of his other-worldly rhythm against their small frontcourt, the Pacers are a huge threat to them. And thats not likely to happen unless Oden can physically build to a point where he can give them 15 minutes a night in a playoff series. They just don't have a body that comes close to giving any resistence
Awesome effort tonight by the Pacer D. Teams don't hold Miami down like that offensively. Miami also contributed though by being off on the perimeter all night. That was a D game by Lebrons standards even though the stat line is decent.
Wiggins definitely needs to be more assertive and take over the alpha dog role on this team. Self needs to understand this and he needs to tell his guards to look for Wiggins more. Hopefully this is the start of a more aggressive Wiggins.
Even getting Pierce back helped - he wasn't great, but at least it kept Teletovic on the bench. Between him and Tyshawn Taylor getting big minutes, it looked like the 12 win team. Those guys are just so bad.
Heat have been very cautious with him. Actually played him in a pre season game for a couple minutes but havent used him since. And its not because he had a physical setback, its just extra caution. And those couple pre season minutes were all about clearing a mental hurdle
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He's not going to be what he was, but 15 minutes of post defense on Roy Hibbert would really go a long way for Miami. He has the length and bulk to not get bullied down low by him even if hes lost a good deal of athletic ability
For what they gain in defense I wonder if the Heat will miss the easy layups and open shots when Roy has to guard Bosch.
These teams will meet in the 2014 Conference Finals. If Roy Hibbert has a similar series to the 2013 Conference finals, Indiana is going to win the series
Career wise, he has a habit of owning Paul head to head even though CP3 is clearly better. About even tonight in the first half, but the Nets up big
Deron Williams team is 14-5 vs Paul
Williams 16.7 pts 8.5 ast .504% FG
Paul 16.4 pts 9.2 ast .436% FG
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Jordan Farmar: out.
Steve Blake: out.
Blatche is staying inside, and Deron had lift and legs. He does that his is a very good team.
its just a few games but they have an easy stretch starting (though on the road bak to back tonight will be tough)- so we could be sniffng 500 sooner then later.
Portland is a very good team. I don't expect them to keep up this pace but they should win 50+. Aldridge is maybe the best offensive big in the NBA right. The 31/25 line looks good already but it's the way he gets his points that is so impressive. Lillard/Aldridge get all the hype but the reason the Blazers are here is because of Batum/Lopez/Matthews. Batum in particular is one of the most underrated players in the game, he's just a swiss army knife.
Good news for the Rockets is that Howard is getting on a roll now. Last night was the best he looked on the low block posting up all year. He flashed some nice moves from both the left and right block, including some pump fakes out of Hakeem's arsenal. The Rockets still look like they're missing an ingredient. They really need to trade Asik for player who fits better.
Thats one thing. They dont want to do it that way. I understand that. Thats when you have to accept it or not. But theres no reason not to play hard.
This year it has gone to an exaggerated level though. I think circumstances like the back, and reduced minutes have altered his approach some. He looked very athletic on Saturday though, best ive seen him look physically since he reaggravated the back issue in toronto
If he hit his 3's I'm OK with him. Problem is, for most of his time here, he's been a "shooter" who hasn't really shot that well. He was great against Detroit - really kept the Nets in the game. And the rest of his game has looked better recently. There are times when he's toxic defensively though - so overwhelmed that it's impossible to make stops. I don't think he can be relied upon in all matchups, but if he can come in and hit a couple of 3's from time to time, then there's some value.
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Lillard 36 pts 10 ast 8 rebs 8/12 from downtown
Aldridge 26 pts 15 rebs 4 ast 11/22 FG
The Blazers are a league best 22-4. That means .500 from here on out gets them 50 wins. And theyve done this against a fairly difficult schedule, right on the edge of the top 10 toughest
Trey Burke just shat on Oladipo tonight for a 30/7/8 game while Oladipo went 1-12.
If Burke were healthy all year, he would be the front runner for ROY.
It's just one if those things that teams will have to overcome. In a right game the Heat are going to get the benefit of the doubt. It sucks and I hope their luck ends this year. That team is insufferable.
We know theyre going to play in the conference finals. Id still give the Heat an edge, but Indianais absolutely capable of ending their 3 year reign as East champs
On the side, you wouldn't expect Miami to miss that many 3's too often. Great to see these games. Hopefully everyone is healthy for the ECF - it's going to be spectacular and I think the Pacers have real chance to win it. It's going to take everything that LeBron and Wade have + 3 point shooting for Miami to beat them.
George is easy to root for, but Hibbert is just a giant flopping peace of shit. He really deserves to get hurt on one of his flops, then maybe he would stop doing it
If form of the comparison holds true, Pacers get home court this year, just like the Knicks did. But the Heat still win the series. Lebron threepeats, then retires to go play baseball. Indiana makes the finals in a Lebron less league in 2015, and loses in 7 games. Lance Stephenson goes 2 for 18
The Pelicans went all in this off-season on Tyreke Evans and Jrue Holiday. Gave Evans a 4yr/$44M deal and Holiday a 4yr/$41M deal. They wanted to win and they wanted to win now.
Holiday has been solid. 15/8/4 on efficient shooting with good defense. He also seems like a good locker room presence which is always a plus for a PG. He may still be overpaid because he isn't a Top 10 PG in this league and I think he has kind of reached his ceiling. But I think the Pelicans should be happy with what they've gotten out of him.
Evans has been awful. He is averaging 12/5/4 on awful shooting. He has a .404 FG% and is only shooting .091 from behind the arc! His eFG% of .409 is historically bad. I don't know how he's been as a defender but he's not a gamechanger on that end, seems pretty average. He has been a giant waste of money thus far.
Dropped a triple double yesterday and is only 24, I expect him to play better. But the Pelicans' roster just seems like a mess with Evans, Holliday, and Eric Gordon being the 3 highest paid players.
Pelicans seem locked into this mediocre supporting cast which is unfortunate because Anthony Davis is going to take over this league soon. I wish there was a way for a guy like Rondo to go to New Orleans, I'd love to see him and Davis on the same team (Kentucky connection too).
He isnt a number 1 or 2 guy on a team.
Raptors now lead the division
With 25 points tomorrow in LA, Lebron can pass Larry Bird on the all time scoring list. And it will have taken him 104 fewer games
Dwight is playing some awesome ball recently
Houston plays no defense.
LAC has no legitimate wings
SA benefitted from injuries to other teams last year
Portland has looked good, but they may be a year or 2 away.
GS has no bench or defense
OKC is the only team that looks who can compete, but they match up horribly with Miami.
All this said i probably would still pick them to win the West, They just own the Spurs. Match up incredibly well with them. I have similar reservations about Portland not being ready to truly contend yet. The Clippers and Rockets are both a move away.
If they can provide scoring off the bench, they may win it. Key word, maybe.
Backcourt: (top 2 starters)
1. Kobe Bryant (LAL) 723,031
2. Chris Paul (LAC) 533,647
3. Stephen Curry (GS) 481,698
4. Jeremy Lin (Hou) 358,725
Freaking ridiculous. You knew the fans were going to do that with Kobe even though its dumb and he doesn't deserve it, but whatever. Lin 4th though? Being an asian in the NBA is like steroids for the all star voting as we often saw with Yao. Where are these votes coming from? China? Chinese in the United States? How the fuck is Lin 4th?
West Front court (top 3 are starters)
Frontcourt:
1. Kevin Durant (OKC) 850,728
2. Dwight Howard (Hou) 408,623
3. Blake Griffin (LAC) 399,357
4. Kevin Love (Min) 377,941
East Back court
1. Dwyane Wade (Mia) 565,455
2. Kyrie Irving (Cle) 524,000
3. Derrick Rose (Chi) 299,950
4. John Wall (Was) 210,988
East Front court
1. LeBron James (Mia) 854,105
2. Paul George (Ind) 712,808
3. Carmelo Anthony (NYK) 580,795
4. Roy Hibbert (Ind) 304,829
Curry
Durant
Aldridge (team success gets him spot over Love)
Dwight
Wall
Wade (shout out to Afflalo, under the radar but killing it)
George
LeBron
Hibbert
Curry
Durant
Aldridge (team success gets him spot over Love)
Dwight
Wall
Wade (shout out to Afflalo, under the radar but killing it)
George
LeBron
Hibbert
Not to nitpick but hasn't affalo been more of a 3 this year? Oladipo and Nelson have started a lot of games together.
And I can't believe I am saying this.... but I much rather see the NBA do what the NFL is doing and have a draft of the 24 people voted in. Obviously since the west has much better players.
The Washington Wizards' lone nationally televised appearance of the season has been wiped from the Feb. 7 schedule in favor of a game between the Portland Trail Blazers and Indiana Pacers.
The Wizards have their best record after 25 games in six years and are currently in the playoffs.
The Wizards haven't been on ESPN since April 14, 2010 and on TNT during the rookie season of John Wall.
I'd like to see Minnesota or Portland on TV more often.
The networks really went in hard on Laker and Bull telecasts this year and with injuries are seeing it blow up in their face. Not to mention all the Knick games
The networks really went in hard on Laker and Bull telecasts this year and with injuries are seeing it blow up in their face. Not to mention all the Knick games
Not every single cable system carries the NBATV. Mine doesnt for instance, so I am stuck watching those games online.
Wikipedia says nbatv is in 52.3% of households with cable
Thats now 3 surgeries in less than 9 months, for a guy who was the poster for durability prior to this.
Thats a big blow. Certainly will cost them seeding. More importantly, you wonder what Westbrook is going to be when he gets back
Also, if OKC can maintain the 1 seed, I truly believe it will be Durants year for the MVP. The storyline will be there, the stats will be there, and the Lebron fatigue voting will be there.
Perfect storm for Lebron NOT to win it.
They can and do play D. When they control their turnovers and fouls, they're a very tough team to beat.
With Lebron being banged up, Durant is going to emerge the clear MVP frnt runner sooner if he already hasnt. His last 10-15 games are just ridiculous.
Kevin Durant is a legend. He's one of the best players in the history of the league, i have no problem saying that for a guy who just turned 25. The level he has played on the last few seasons is insane. Ive said this before, but were it not for Lebron we'd be talking about Durant in God like terms. And hed have won 3 MVPs by age 24, very possibly even a title too
Bird was the better passer and the better rebounder, and the better post up player who you could run your offense through on the block (though Durant will surely get more lethal in this area) but theres a bigger gap in their pure scoring ability than their raw scoring numbers would lead you to believe, especially when you adjust for era. Durant was a late surge from Carmelo last year away from working on scoring title number 5 consecutively this season (and by the way, he will be 25 years old all season), and his efficiency is just crazy. His Career True Shooting % of .595 is easily the best of anyone in the top 15 in career scoring average, more efficient than Shaq or Kareem. This is a guy with the length of a 7 footer, elite finishing skills and shooting touch, a release point you can't bother, and a scoring resume' that is on track to take a backseat to no one other than MJ adjusted for era
And Durant over the last season and a half is clearly a better defender than Bird ever was. With his length and athleticism it was only a matter of time. And while advanced stats like defensive win shares might overstate his case when they paint him as a top 5 defender each of the last two years, he's become a terrific defensive player.
29.6 ppg
8.7 rebs
4.6 ast
54.1% FG
50% 3pFG
14-2 record
And all NBA caliber defense.
This is a guy who just turned 25. Unless he has a rather odd career trajectory (ie a major injury or something else unforseen) he isn't even in his true prime yet. He is still about 2 years away from that.
I don't know how many titles KD is going to win. A good part of his career is overlapping with a GOAT short list candidate in Lebron who has already taken a ring and 3 MVPs away from him. He also plays for a penny pinching organization who has hurt his talent base to cut costs, and is now dealing with health issues to his sidekick that have to be alarming (3 surgeries for Westbrook in 9 months).
But the level hes playing on right now is nuts
I wish there was a way to compare the nightly level of competition in a 23 team league versus a 30 team league. While that may be just left to opinion, I'm fairly confident that there were more top level players during Bird's peak than there are now. So saying that "only" LeBron is keeping KD from this and that is as much of an indictment of league-wide talent than a compliment. Bird won 3 MVPs and finished 2nd four times to DR. J, Moses Malone (2x), and Jordan. He also finished 3rd another time behind Magic and Jordan. Heck, the years Bird finished in the top 5, look at the other players who placed in the top 5...
Jordan
Magic
Abdul-Jabbar
Hakeem Olajuwon
Moses Malone
Isiah Thomas
George Gervin
Charles Barkley
Bernard King
Robert Parrish
Dominique
KD is playing at a historic level, but I'm hesitant to say he's "better than" a guy whose accomplishments took place during a time when the league had better top-end competition.
I would also disagree with the caliber of competition today vs the 80s argument based solely on expansion. While there are more teams today than in 1984, its not like all else is even close to equal....
There are far more people playing basketball than in 84, its not even remotely close...and its tougher than ever to make the league even with more roster spots. In addition to regular population explosions that occur over three decade spans.... Participation rates have exploded over the past couple decades based on the work done by guys like Bird, Magic and MJ. Not only in the US, but more importantly the floodgates have opened on foreign participation over the last 25 years at a meteoric rate. There is a whole world outside of the US which is now competing for NBA jobs. The league is almost 1/4 foreign at this point. The team who came within a Ray allen three of winning a title last season had 10 foreign born guys on the roster, there weren't 10 foreign born guys in the league when Bird won his first MVP. The world landscape is different now and the pool of talent to draw from is far wider.
In 1984, being an NBA player was almost exclusively about being among the best in the US. Being an NBA player today is about being among the best on the globe. There were certainly guys in the short shorts era who couldn't play in the league today. And thats without even getting into other factors that have pushed the game forward from training to advanced understanding of tactics (especially on defense)
I admit im projecting ahead a bit when im talking about Durant. But I think hes incredible. By the time its all over i think he will be a top 10 all time player, whether he gets that credit mainstream or not will depend a lot on team success that contains factors outside of him
I should also add the following... Given Durant is only 25 and going to be around for about a decade, the list of names will only grow. We don't have the benefit of his whole career like we have with Bird to go through. Maybe i can add a Wiggins, or a Parker, or the tons of sub 25 year old talent in the nba with huge upsides in the future on this list too. Several guys on that Bird list weren't even in the league when Bird was 25, while others were past their prime. It basically combines a large period of time
I agree that in terms of overall talent, the floor is higher than it was 30 years ago. I also think it's clear the top level talent isn't what it was, but we still have a ways to go in KD's prime. Maybe other players will step up to challenge LeBron and KD.
Durants early career has already overlapped with many future hall of famers and will only continue to do so. He is also playing in what is pretty inarguably the glory era for his position. With Lebron, himself, young Paul George, guys like wiggins and parker maybe on the way.
The difference in true shooting % between Durant and Larry Bird is actually bigger than the gap that exists between Michael Jordan and Carmelo Anthony. It would be virtually the same as the MJ/Melo gap if you threw out MJs Wizards years. Not only is Durant the more accomplished volume scorer in a lower scoring era working on scoring title number 4, he is way more efficient. He's a better athlete, a better finisher, a better ball handler who has sick handle for his length. I'd argue he's a better shooter than Bird too. It's an apples and oranges comparison given how much more the three ball is a part of todays game compared to Birds era, but not only does Durant shoot a better % from three than Bird did, hes already made 100+ more career threes than Bird and hes 25 years old. Larry Bird had a better postgame. Id take literally every other aspect of Durants scoring skillset over Bird.
2. Kareem '71 .326
3. Wilt '64 .325
4. Kareem '73 .323
5. Lebron '13 .322
6. Jordan '91 .321
7. Lebron '09 .318
8. Jordan '96 .317
9. Jordan '88 .308
10. Durant '14 .299
11. Lebron '10 .299
12. Lebron '12 .298
Durant's season last year is number 16. This is some amazing company especially when you consider his age.
Miami and the Clippers have interest. If he hits the open market he will probably go to one of those two teams. The Heat could SO use him. You double down with 2 medical red flag talented big men and take your chances that one is healthy come playoff time between he and Oden, even if only to give you 10-15 minutes a game
Of course nobody was really shooting the 3 back then - he led the league with 90 makes in 87, which would've tied him for 69th in the league last year, tied with Charlie Villanueva. 20 years from now kids are going to wonder why us old guys call Bird a great shooter.
Bird was an awesome shooter. But im not sure how the case could be made he was a better shooter than Kevin Durant. I could see calling them equals as jump shooters. But if you include Durants finishing skills at the rim under the umbrella of his shooting, he's a better shooter than Bird.
Ohh joy.
Bird was also a good enough defender. Goofy white guy but good enough to make All-D 2nd team a couple of times. Durant's probably a better defender though now, his length is a problem for opposing offenses.
But at 25, Durant has already accomplished an insane amount. He's already cemented himself as a Top 5 pure scorer ever and the rest of his game continues to improve.
The funny thing is how so many people blame "dunks and athleticism" as the downfall of modern day basketball when in reality it's the advent of the 3pt line that has really changed the game stylistically. Watching an '86 Celtics game and then watching a Thunder game from today is like day and night, so it's tough to compare.
It comes down to this with the three ball. The mid range shot is the least efficient shot in basketball. You'd need to shoot 50% in that mid range to give you the same bang for your buck as a modest 33% from three would. While everyone would always prefer paint points if they can get them, modern defensive concepts make it tougher to get to the rim and offenses have exchanged mid range shots for threes as an alternative
Defenses know the deal too. On a per possession basis, this current Pacer defense in playing on a GOAT short list level. And their defense is built exclusively around allowing mid range jumpshots whenever you want them. They close off the paint and chase you off the three point line, encouraging attacks in that 10-20 foot range. If you can take away the three ball and close off the paint, teams are going to have a tough time scoring. Teams are just smarter today
With no prior NBA track record and middling team success no one is going to call Anthony Davis a current top 5 player. But if you divorce yourself from this you can make an argument that hes currently playing on that level and hes 20 years old. I shudder to think how good he can be in his prime
Osi called his shot earlier this year, and im not ready to go GOAT territory, but this is at minimum a future MVP, probably more than once
Davis is going to be a special player as long as he stays healthy. He still hasn't completely shed the injury-prone label but coming back very early from a broken hand and immediately returning to superstar levels at 20 is pretty impressive.
Andre Drummond from the same draft also has a ridiculous ceiling. 13/12 this year at the age of 20 with insane defensive potential once he gets a better feel for defense in the NBA. But a .363 FT% is holding him way back. As of this moment he is looking like one of the worst FT shooters in the history of the game. He can become such a stud if he improves that FT% to a respectable level.
I have no idea how they're doing this. I've only seen them play once or twice. Hornacek must be doing an unreal job
The Bulls would save in excess of $20 million in salary and taxes by trading Deng while waiving Bynum.
The Lakers are reportedly in on talks for a Bynum for Pau deal and would similarly immediately release Bynum too. All of this seems to come to a head by Jan 7th because there is a deadline to release Bynum by then and be off the hook for Bynum money wise. He looks like he will likely be a Free Agent within the next 10 days, and Miami and the clippers are said to have interest
2.6 PPG, 2.0 RPG, 0.2 APG with a .287 FG% and .556 FT% in 10.4 MPG
That is absolutely dreadful. It's still early but this guy has been historically bad in the early going. It may be too early to mention Kwame Brown, but right now it looks like Bennett could be that bad.
Just a very weak looking draft as of now. MCW/Burke/Oladipo are the only 3 early draft picks who are impressing right now. Antetokounmpo is another guy who is interesting.
The warriors have won 7 in a row now and are rounding into form after a sluggish start. They've been playing great defense. I don't know who id pick out of the West at the moment, but i don't think its nuts at all to consider them. They have all the ingredients
Crazy night. One or both will still probably blow it
Exciting time for the Warriors, but they *have* to get their turnovers and fouling under control.
Joe Johnson is the craziest late game shooter I have ever seen in my life. His record over the past year and a half is absolutely insane.
At this very second there is a three way tie at the top of the West at 25-7. But SA and Portland still in action
Really thought they were ready to step up this year. Yo ureally have to wonder if Wall is a guy that makes a team go. Sure, his numbers are pretty, but when you are under .500 in a pathetic East, your team isnt good.
Rose
Rondo
Paul
Westbrook
Williams
all injured or banged up PGs. Yikes.
Separated shoulder
Durant hit a go ahead shot with 4 sec left to put OKC up 2, incredible 4th by him. Love gets fouled on the next possession while shooting a three, missed the first 2 FTs then missed the 3rd intentionally. He also missed another FT after a potential AND-1 with 27 sec left
35.2 ppg
10.0 rpg
5.0 apg
53% FG
42% 3pfg
3-2 record, 2 losses that were heartbreakers.
There is a sizeable gap between them and George, i wouldn't put it past the voters to overly rely on team success and put George in the mix, but he doesn't belong
I dont even have George 3rd.
I have...
1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Aldridge
4. George
5. Love/Curry
I'd give Durant the slightest of edges right now over Lebron but its important that they stay afloat here over these next 25 or so games without Westbrook. No Westbrook will definitely be a boost to his numbers but there will be a tradeoff with wins and team success matters a ton. They've already dropped 2 games that they certainly win if Westbrook played
Durant was probably ahead of Lebron at this point last year too. Then Lebron kicked it into another gear and left everyone in the dust. November and December have never been his peak months
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Lebron with 30 on 12 for 18 shooting in a win over Toronto. Pacers survive a scare against an Irving-less Cav team. Knicks taking it to Dallas right now. Unreal how well theyve played on this texas swing
I wonder if the college game restricts what you can see athletically from some of these guys?
This guy is legendary good. Never seen a skillset like his especially in that freak frame
I had no idea he was even mormon
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I just wish this team would act like turnovers are a bad thing.
Im leaning toward the Warriors winning the West at this point, with the obvious caveat of health
I hope we get to see a playoff rematch between the Spurs and Warriors. The Warriors gave them all they could handle last year and are now a year more experienced, a couple moves more talented (Iggy and a healthy David Lee which you did not have in last years series), and rounding into ridiculous form now that they have everyone healthy and are molding their chemistry and identity with this group. Theyve been great defensively
Its all about health. Curry is always an ankle roll away. You cross your fingers Bogut continues to stay healthy. And you hope nothing unforseen pops up like David Lee last year
I don't mean to underrate the machine that is SA. Theyre right there and will probably be the 1 seed. But last years near title run aside, theyve been underwhelming in the postseason in the post prime Duncan era. And the stars aligned as much as possible last season for them to make the run they did. No Westbrook. Golden States injuries and general big game rawness, No Kobe in round 1 although it wouldn't have made a difference. Then DWade limping around the floor in the finals getting a Heat team that was a shadow of its regular season self even while winning a title
Both NY teams are playing a lot better of late
Fortunately for them, they actually have more than two consecutive days off coming up and can use it to figure out why they turn the ball over like Eli Manning.
A pleasure to see curry in person for the first time.
Livingston played great using his size. I was screaming in the 4th "that's 20 10 and 5 kg!". Finally looked great! Mirza with 10+ boards.
A great win without deron and lopez done.
Gs looked tired down the stretch, and 1 thing is they lack a creator outside of curry.
Was a fight with a piece of trash nets fan (jets jacket on) and a annoying warriors fan I got doused with beer.
Arena is such a pleasure to watch a game.
Broooook lyn
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He is only 48, so he could have a very long coaching career ahead of him.
By the way, these nicknames on the back of jerseys.
Guy was just wrapping him up so he couldn't get a shot off. What kind of crybaby reaction is that?
this is a good game...give nets credit no Deron no Lopez playing hard...you can tell Lebron wants to win this game
I understand what your saying...what i am saying is every player will react the same way whether it was intentional or not...I never said Teletovic wanted to do it on purpose i am just saying whenever arms get close to the neck every player reacts the same way and i dont blame them
Clippers now 3-1 without CP3, although the competition has been questionable and they have a ton of road games upcoming. Theyre murdering the Lakers tonight and Blake with 33 pts 12 rebs 4 ast 4 stls in only 30 min on 12/15 shooting. He is really having a monster year.
The Pacers defense this year is borderline GOAT level statistically. Tonight they hold the Wiz to 66 pts on 32% shooting. Roy Hibbert has Defensive player of the year on LOCKDOWN and it should be unanimous, no one is close right now to having his impact defensively. More than anyone in the NBA statistics fail to do his impact justice. Theyre now 3 games ahead of Miami in the loss column for top seed in the East, and they're doing it with an offense in the bottom half of the sport
Livingston is also playing really well defensively.
7 seed and climbing... at 5 games under 500. comical.
Nice win.
1. 04 Spurs 94.1
2. '14 Pacers 94.8
3. 99 Spurs 95.0
4. 04 Pistons 95.4
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Its tough to see the surefire "you can win a title with this guy as your best player" prospect in this draft. Wiggins has been "meh" all season. Parker has a nice set of skills but holes in his overall game and has really tailed off recently. Ive seen very little of Randle, but i wonder if hes going to be able to use the bag of tricks that has largely worked for him in college at the next level, abusing people in the post.
All three could be all stars. But this aint 2003. All this hype about this draft hasnt met expectations so far
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that says a lot about this overhyped group.
wiggins in my opinion just isnt that good. Felipe Lopez had a better freshman year ... gulp.
i like randle and parker.
Duke quietly kind of sucks too and he's been struggling recently
He's not going to come into the NBA next year and take anyone by storm. I see some Paul George in him although no two players are alike and i don't like making comps. I think he will have a similar career arc too. George was no more advanced at this age than Wiggins is, and is just now in year 4 at the NBA level (year 6 removed from his HS class) playing like a legit top 10 player. I expect Wiggins to improve his skill level every year going forward
The biggest concern i have about Wiggins is his lackadasical (sp?) demeanor and whether or not he has the personality to be the leader of a franchise, its been a knock on him for a while now. Some saw those issues in George too, but he fell into the lap of a culture in Indiana that has toughened him up. He even talks differently now, like all the Pacer bullshit has rubbed off on him
article makes the same Paul George comparison I did with wiggins. I didn;t know that before making my post, didn;t read the full article. Not that comparing Wiggins and George is somehow unique, a lot of people have made that comp
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Wiggins still has a lot of work to do on the dribble and with his shot. People overrated how good he was as of right now. But based on everything I've seen, I view his potential just as highly right now as I did at the start of the season. His offensive ceiling may be a little lower than I thought, but his defensive ceiling may actually be higher than I thought.
Embiid has clearly surpassed Randle imo. Defense is just that important.
But now is the time to really start paying attention to Freshman, January/February when it's about the conference and the Frosh have adjusted to the college game from HS.
Wiggins had 19 rebounds tonight, pretty crazy. Iowa State is really good and Hoiberg is a great coach. Great win for kansas
Parker has had a few mediocre/shitty games in a row including a poor performance tonight
He did play in one preseason game against the Pelicans very briefly, but by all accounts that was just to throw him a bone for some of his progress. The long term plan was to get him on a big leg lifting regimen to strengthen the muscles around his knees, and thats what hes been doing for the past few months. Apparently he's ready to go (for now). Im pulling for him
Heat were down as much as 34 at minimum (maybe even more) but its now down to 11 late 3rd
It wasn't KD's best shooting night but he made up for it by getting to the line a ton and finished the night with 36 pts 7 ast and 5 rebs. He has been incredible since Westbrook went down but they're only 6-5. Rough schedule, some heartbreaking losses, and this supporting cast minus Westbrook has serious holes
34.6 ppg
7.8 rebs
5.5 ast
48% FG
62% True Shooting %
48 career fouls
26 career turnovers
29 career field goals made
His current PER is a whopping 1.1
This is what an all-time bad rookie season looks like. I hope he shows something these next couple of months but his career has been nothing short of pathetic so far. He was supposed to be the 2nd coming of Grandmama, but it turns out he just plays like a grandma.
Curry and Klay also going off for the Warriors. Another great one between OKC and GS, these two play awesome games, im dying for a playoff series between them
18 for 24
Rifuckingdiculous.
And now hes got 52....
Heat got an OT win in Charlotte without Wade. Lebron with 34-8-6 on 13/25 shooting. Started 5 for 5, then missed 9 in a row and during this stretch got dunked on by Ramon Sessions, then finished the game 8 for his last 11 and led them to the W. Just a bizarre night
31 and 17 for Anthony Davis but they lose to Golden State. Keep an eye on the Warriors in the 2nd half of this season, theyve had a crazy disparity between road and home, played 8 more road games than home games and have a ton at their place to make up.
They are so locked in night to night right now its ridiculous. They're going to be the 1 seed
Clippers are 7-2 without Chris Paul this year.
Power Rankings:
1. IND (33-7)
2. MIA (29-12)
3. OKC (31-10)
4. SAS (32-9)
5. LAC (29-14)
6. GSW (26-17)
7. POR (31-10)
8. HOU (28-15)
9. DAL (25-18)
10. BRK (17-22)
I'm ready to call the Pacers the favorite for the NBA title right now, or atleast the co-favorite with Miami. They have a 5 game lead over Miami in the loss column to put them in position to have HomeCourt over the Heat and everyone else. Why should that matter? Because they're 21-1 at Home!
I think Miami's still the team with the higher ceiling so I could see them turn it on at the end of the regular season and then go into Indy and beat them in the playoffs. But 3 straight Finals appearances and 2 straight titles take a lot out of you come playoff time. Barring injury, everything points to an Eastern Conference showdown between Miami and Indiana.
In the West, I think that there are 6 teams who can realistically make it to the Finals. But OKC/SAS are still the cream of that crop imo. Those next 4 teams are bunched in so close together, tough to rank them.
MVP Race:
1. Durant
2. LeBron
3. George
4. Aldridge
5. Curry
It's really a 2 man race at this point between a career-season from Durant and an insanely efficient but kind of coasting season from LeBron. It really depends on 2 things. How Durant and the Thunder continue to play after the Westbrook injury, and if LeBron and the Heat flip a switch in the 2nd half. But right now it looks like Durant's year to grab that elusive MVP award, not too different from Barkley in '93 where we all knew that MJ was still the league's alpha but Barkley was close enough and went harder in the regular season.
Paul George is a pretty rock solid 3rd imo. He's not going to catch LeBron or Durant barring injury, but he has a pretty safe lead over the next tier of candidates. Aldridge has been in that Top 5 convo for a while now but I expect him to be passed up by a couple of players as the year goes on. I think Curry is one of those guys, he could even catch George with a great 2nd half.
George doesn't have a guy like Lillard next to him putting up pretty numbers, and the gap between him and the Pacers 2nd scorer could lead to more perceived value due to that, but the Pacers right now are winning because of a goat level defense, not their mediocre offense. And while George is a great defender he is not even the biggest reason on his own team for that, Hibbert is. He should be a unanimous DPOY and i think he's at least 90% as valuable to Indiana as George is right now, even though the numbers don't show it
I do expect Portland to tail off some, but ive been expecting it for a month and they keep it up in a tough west. We'll see
Hibbert is definitely the key to that defense, he's the DPOY and best rim protector alive. But George's perimeter defense plays a huge role in Indy's scheme. Hill/Stephenson/West is a good but nothing special defensive group. What makes Indy's D so insane is having the best rim protector in Hibbert and a Top 5 wing defender in George.
And he combines that elite perimeter D with the 6th most threes made in the NBA on 40% shooting. The 3&D player has become such an important part of today's NBA, and Paul George is basically the ideal 3&D player. He's averaging 23/6/4 on top of the 3&D stuff as a 23 year old.
Melo finished 3rd to KD/LeBron last year. I would take 2014 George over 2013 Melo. I wouldn't take 2014 Aldridge over 2013 Melo.
Really doesn't matter too much for them though. Bottom line for Miami, they have a (max) 14 game season that starts in the middle of May and they'll have to win at least one game in Indiana. That's all they care about.
24.1 pts 11.5 rebs 2.9 ast 23.4 PER .476 FG% (.520 TS%)
George
23.2 pts 6.2 rebs 3.5 AST 22.6 PER .460 FG% (.590 TS%)
George has more impact off the stat sheet than Aldridge because of his defense. The numbers themselves are close, and apples and oranges between a big and a wing. Give George a nod for his superior efficiency on offense in TS%. Aldridge though is spearheading the best offense in the NBA right now. And I think you need to grade team success on somewhat of a curve because of West vs East
If i had to allocated 1,000 MVP worthiness points between the top 4 candidates, Id do it as follows
Durant 450
Lebron 300
George 140
Aldridge 110
I think theres a bigger gap this season between KD and Lebron than there is between George and aldridge. Ive seen all but a handful of Heat games this year and Miami is in coast mode, conserving energy for another deep playoff run. Lebron is still putting up numbers, but this is probably Lebron's worst defensive season since he became an elite defender in 2009. Kevin Durant isn't the defender Lebron is when he is locked in, but on a night in night out basis I think KD has actually been more impactful this season defensively. Rebounds are down too for LBJ because he hasn't been as willing to mix it up night to night (he has also been dinged a bunch).
Durants season has just been incredible. He has too much going in his favor right now for anything barring injury to derail him from the MVP. The narrative of him keeping OKC afloat without Westbrook in a tough West will help his case as well. And then theres the Lebron fatigue that we've always talked about, which Durant doesn't even need at the moment but won't hurt.
LBJ could be poised for a huge 2nd half but Im not sure how much that changes the conversation as the Heat are probably locked into the 2 seed for every single day the remainder of this season
Lillard is the poster boy for standard FG% not telling the whole story in efficiency. Almost half his FG attempts are threes and no one is going to have a pretty FG% with shot selection like that. But when you adjust for the value of the three ball (which stats like TS% and Efg% do) he's highly efficient.
Lillard has a True Shooting % this year of .586. By comparison Tony Parker is at .570. Lillard has been the more efficient scorer. In terms of standard FG% though, no one would think that way when its Parker 51 vs Lillard 42
Greg Oden just had a hell of a 20 second stretch in this Heat game. Blocked a Jeff Green dunk attempt and then followed up a Lebron miss with a putback dunk. He looks rusty as hell out there but hes shown flashes in these limited minutes since he came back
Miami coasting along in a dogfight at home with the Celts
Brooklyn keeps rolling
NBA TV should be picking up bonus coverage of this shortly for anyone interested
They're playing better ball, but they're going no where fast besides a first round playoff exit. And it's not going to get better going forward, either.
Both NY franchises have no future right now, at all.
Knicks can start over slightly quicker, but they'll fuck that up, too
Another magic night in a magic season. This guy is playing on a level right now that rivals anyone not named Jordan or Lebron at the wing position
46
52.2% FG
41.5% threes
7.2 rebs
5.6 ast
This is one of the GOAT wing seasons. I don';t buy into Win Shares as the end all be all, but entering tonight he had a higher WS/48 than ANY season by Jordan or Lebron or any other wing player in history this year. And it should only rise off tonights effort
This dude is an all time great. Barring injury he will go down as top 10 best ever. Age 25, now hes going to have an MVP award to go with his 3 second place finishes
Unless this is a mirage, I can't imagine them losing a seven game series to Charlotte or Chicago. They would lose in 4 to a healthy Miami or Indiana team. But, oh well.
The d is better. The ball is moving.
They have 5 weapons on the court at all times.
Its an entirely different team then chicago series, where they had 2 guys starting who get zero minutes for the nets and celtics this year.
With their win last night OKC went ahead of Portland by a game for the #2 spot. It's something to keep an eye on, especially for the Blazer, who probably don't want to face a Golden State or Houston in the 1st round.
OKC gives: Westbrook and Perkins
OKC lineup:
Jackson
Sefolsha
Durant
Ibaka
Noah
Reserves:
Hinrich
Dunleavy
Adams
Lamb
Collinson
The injury to Westbrook and his knee maybe problematic for the rest of the year. We all know Perkins sucks. Getting Noah and Hinrich drastically improves their defense. Dunleavy gives them a shooter to pair with KD. The Bulls take a chance with Rose/Westbrook backcourt. As a Bulls fan, I wouldnt be oppose to this whatsoever. Bulls can then try to grab a top Center in the draft.
I am just looking for the Bulls to do something drastic. Whatever they are doing is just not working that well.
I just don't see any way OKC gives up Westbrook and this core right now though. If they'd kept Harden, maybe. Then they'd still have a legit 2nd scorer. If they'd gone through a couple of healthy post-seasons with this group and failed to win a title, maybe. Then they'd have more incentive to shake it up.
Plus Thibs would probably have some kind of nervous breakdown after losing Deng and Noah in the same year, and that would be sad.
I enjoyed Perkins getting cocky after a bucket and demanding the ball in the post vs Duncan the next trip down, only to fire up an airball
"I got your tank right here"
Just hit a beautiful one foot runner to give him 27 pts on 9/13 FG mid 3rd quarter. OKC up 2. If they win tonight it would make it 9 of 11 vs SA including playoffs.
Durant had a sloppy night at times turnover wise, but was beasting as usual otherwise until he dinged his shoulder, then didn't do much of anything for a long stretch of the game, often wincing in pain. Just when you worry though he knocks down back to back threes late in the 4th to essentially ice the game. Big 4th for Reggie Jackson as well
Durant has 35 pts 7 rebs 5 ast on 12/22 shooting with a minute left in the game. Even though he knocked down those two late threes, i still want to hear hes perfectly OK health wise
First game since moving to Oklahoma City that the Thunder won't have either Durant or Westbrook
Avery thanks for not playing him last year... glad big game reggie evans got all that burn. u might still have a job.
go nets.
Indiana just stole one in Sacramento, Paul George hit a 4 point play late in the 4th to force OT. Kings were playing without Cousins. Isaiah Thomas on the Kings is an immensely fun player to watch. Sac has some nice young pieces between Cousins, Thomas and McLemore (speaking on potential with Mclemore). Get some lotto luck this year and they're in business with a nice young core.
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He'd add another random all time nugget to his already all time leading number of 4-point plays.
Clips are balling without Paul. Could move to 9-3 tonight, Blake Griffin has been outstanding
26/7/6 on 11-15
ho hum.
KD has a triple double tonight
Terrance ross 51 tied Vince's franchise record
"Whether we do that from here on out (Wade as a reserve), I don't know. I understand everybody's going to use this as a lightning rod, a subject to talk about the next 3 days."
Anthony Davis 22 pts 19 rebs 7 blks
Nets keep rolling with an ugly win in Boston. Knicks gaining ground in that 8 seed race with Cleveland losing and Detroit about to lose
The NBA Finals was the youngest-skewing event of those examined and the most diverse. No other event had a larger percentage of Hispanics, Asians, kids 2-17, or adults 18-34, and only the WNBA Finals attracted a comparable percentage of African Americans. On average, more than a quarter of the audience for the series was made up of minority viewers under the age of 35. Overall, the NBA Finals was the second-most viewed event of those examined, trailing only the Final Four which had an older, less diverse audience (more on that next). The only downside? The NBA Finals had the second-smallest median income of any event examined, ahead of only the WNBA Finals.
It is striking to see just how different the audiences are for the NBA Finals and Final Four, two events that on the surface are fairly similar. The median age for the Final Four was nearly a decade older than that of the NBA Finals, and the audience for the games was dramatically less diverse just 23% of the Final Four audience was African American, Hispanic or Asian, compared to 58% of the NBA Finals audience. The Final Four also attracted a more affluent audience than the NBA Finals. Despite the obvious divide between the two events, they averaged similar numbers in 2013 18.3* million for the Final Four and 17.7 million for the NBA.
The NHL may not have the numbers of the other leagues, but it skewed younger than every event but the NBA and had the most affluent audience of the events examined. Advertisers thirst for young audiences with disposable income, and the NHL would be in great shape if it could attract more viewers. One problem 2013 was an unusually good year for the league, and the numbers may drop back to Earth this season. Another problem the Stanley Cup Final had the least diversity of any event examined.
Maybe the World Series Really Has Lost a Generation
It is almost cliche to suggest that Major League Baseball has lost younger viewers, but the numbers for the 2013 World Series were still notable nearly half the audience was over the age of 55, and the series median age hovered in the mid-50s. Combine that with a fairly non-diverse audience, and the Fall Classic does not appear to be in great shape.
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Kyle lowry is playing all star ball
KD 41 pts on 15/25 including the game winner. Thats 11 straight of 30+,closing in on a post merger record
Ridiculous ridiculous season continues. And his team is now 36-10 in a stacked West without Westbrook for a huge portion of the season
This is what he has done since Westbrook had his latest surgery
17 game sample
36.5 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 5.8 APG .537 FG%, .413 3P%, .874 FT%, .668 TS%
That's nasty.
Really excited for this game. Doesn't get much better than this for a January NBA game.
Miami-OKC tomorrow night is a great, great game. That's must see TV for NBA fans.
Now that we have half a season of proof, is there anyone who still isn't sold on him?
Jordan
Robinson
Hakeem
Garnett
That is the list of players who have won both the MVP and DPOY trophy in their careers. Jordan and Hakeem being the only 2 to do in in the same year. Tim Duncan really should be on this list, a fucking shame that lesser defenders like Marcus Camby stole DPOYs from Duncan.
Anthony Davis WILL be on that list imo. Don't know if he can do it the same year like MJ/Dream, but he is going to get his hands on both awards at some point in his career as long as he stays healthy.
Heat and Spurs have virtually the same record but have gotten there in very different ways. Miami has dropped 8 games to sub .500 teams, been tripped up a ton against lesser competition, but has the best record in the game against +500s
lol yea Stern made the right call, even if the whole situation was a little shady.
The Wolves are another good team in the West who likely won't make the playoffs. They're 22-22 but they have a +4.5 PPG differential, which is actually better than the Warriors and Rockets. They're probably closer to 25-19 than 22-22 in terms of their true talent level.
The West vs. East disparity is such a joke.
Stern has never had a problem with the Lakers being on the right side of lopsided trades before.
He had an investment to protect in the Hornets and had to make sure they were most desirable to a buyer. Making that trash trade made zero sense on any level for Stern if he was looking to sell the team. They were taking on a ton of money and weren't going to be good enough to do any damage or bad enough to get #1 pick.
That trade would have set the hornets back 3-4 more years than needed
Derek fisher on fire early, he has been useless for years but hes having himself a half
Brooks has sat Perkins ever since the 7 min mark of the 1st quarter
Durant is just an animal
OKC is just locked in right now, looking to make it 9 in a row and against some highly quality competition in there. Durant is going to extend his streak of 30 point games with another bucket
And then he hits another fadeaway since i began typing this post
Miami 3 for 19 from downtown
Team A is beating team B 100 times out of 100 when that happens. Unreal shooting display for OKC, as bad as it gets for Miami. Entering tonight OKC had been shooting threes at a below average clip this season despite Durant's exploits, a flaw that id still have concerns about longer term with them, at least compared to past Thunder teams who had Harden and Martin, but they've been riding a wave recently during this 9 game streak and Durant is playing like a basketball God. He's the MVP this year, theres no debate
Westbrook's health is still going to be huge though. No matter how great they look right now they're still going to need him at least 90% of what we know him to be come playoff time.
OKC up by 28. That could be the only thing stopping his streak
Don't think I've ever seen that kind of efficiency for the top 2 scorers of a team at the half.
Kevin Durant is 1st player with at least 550 pts and 90 ast in a month since Michael Jordan in March 1987
if Westbrook is healthy OKC has the core big 3 in place to win multiple titles. Im still really not in love them 4 through 15 though. Probably the worst team of all the contenders
shitty way for it to end
35.9 ppg
54.9% FG
43.6% 3pfg
68.5% True Shooting%
6.1 rebs
6.1 ast
He is a lock for Western Conference Player of the Month, which would make it 3 for 3 this season.
4 pts on 1-11 shooting against Texas in an intense conference game (down 15 late in the 2nd half)
Embiid isn't exactly lighting it up either. I still think Wiggins has an incredible ceiling as a player but he has a lot of holes in his game. He's more Harrison Barnes than Kevin Durant right now. Just like Barnes, you see the potential to be an offensive juggernaut in college but it's only flashes.
I have a lot of respect for his upside but im still not sure George at 23 is yet on the level people want to put him. Im not sure Paul George despite his massive defensive edge is any more impactful than even Melo right now, although thats pretty much now consensus influenced by indy's team success. The difference between them offensively is just that big. Im not sure George is ready to be the offensive alpha indiana is going to need him to be to win a title. That team is really well built though`
Lebron with 31 pts 12 ast 8 rebs in the win. Heat win despite getting outrebounded 52-31 and giving up an insane 21 offensive boards
Durant is incredible. I still dont' think he's on Lebron's level because of Lebron's defense and transition game, but Durant is one of the best scorers I've ever seen. He's Steph Curry with much more length.
That figure would rank fifth overall among 79 players who have finished at least 50 post-ups this season, per Synergy. The four players who have exceeded Griffins post-Paul efficiency on the block: LeBron James (the best player alive, though Kevin Durant is closing the gap); Brook Lopez (out for the season); Boris Diaw (not nearly as frequent a post-up scoring threat); and Dirk Nowitzki (sort of a well-known post-up guy). Griffins post-ups this season have produced .981 points per possession, meaning hes actually been better without Paul, even while assuming a larger burden. But even so: That .981 figure ranks Griffin 12th among
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Its not as if its the NFC/AFC from like '84-'96 or anything though, where one conference just couldn't compete with the other at the top and the NFC was winning every SB most often in uncompetitive fashion. The NFC title game was looked at as the SB. The East and West have split the last 10 nba titles. The West has consistently had better depth, but at the top its been close for a decade.
I'd like to see the Clippers get a healthy crack in the postseason for once. Griffin playing hurt last year with the ankle in round 1. Paul playing hurt in 2012 against the Spurs in round 2. They have not been healthy for either playoff berth in the CP3 era. If they are this year they have a shot to make some noise. Doc Rivers > Vinny Del Negro, Deandre Jordan playing the best ball of his career too. Id still like to see them add a wing who can defend and preferably has three point range before the deadline
First player to have 25-10-5 while playing 25 or fewer minutes in 24 years according to espn
Excellent for him to play with KG to start his career and learn
The West was supposed to be an absolute slugfest this year, and after Westbrook went down people thought OKC would slip a little bit in the standings and be fighting for homecourt. Today's NBA Western Conference playoff standings...
1. OKC
2. SAS (4.0 GB)
3. POR (5.0 GB)
4. LAC (6.0 GB)
5. HOU (6.0 GB)
6. GSW (10.0 GB)
7. PHO (10.5 GB)
8. DAL (10.5 GB)
9. MEM (12.5 GB)
OKC has built a very strong 4 game lead over the Spurs. Technically, all the teams in the Top 5 have a chance at the #1 seed being within just 6 games. But I seriously doubt any of those teams catch OKC. The Clippers probably have the best chance.
In the bottom part of the WC playoff race, the Golden State Warriors stick out like a sore thumb. They are 4 GB from the #5 seed yet 2.5 Games ahead of the 9th seed. This is a team with Championship aspirations. This is a team whose bandwagon was filled at the start of the year. This is a team that I think may have the highest ceiling in the West if everyone is healthy and is playing well.
So I'm just a little disappointed/surprised that they are an "on the bubble" team to make the playoffs as of today. Their ORtg is 15th and their DRtg is 3rd in the league this year. Iggy and a healthy Bogut have really helped their defense. But offensively they remain a one dimensional jump shooting team that is way too turnover prove.
They're still a very dangerous team in the playoffs because they have a great defense and can get red hot from downtown. But they are struggling to make the playoffs as of today. I think they'll make it but it's no lock. Memphis is looking really good lately and the Suns and Mavs are probably worse than GS but they're not gonna lay down.
36 pts 13 rebs 9 ast, two threes in the final minute including a fadeaway into the first row for the W
Crazy game. 111-110 Heat final
I know KD is probably going to win MVP this season, but LeBron has nights like last night where he proves yet again he is the best basketball player alive.
I get the rep here of being a Lebron fanboy and thats not unwarranted. But truth be told im just about equally as big a KD fan at this point. I just haven't been put into a position to add a counterbalance to some of the slings and arrows that may be thrown his way like a Lebron. Durant is still very much in that fresh faced, lovey dovey portion of his career where everything is sweet and dandy and everyone loves him. But no chips in another year or two, those arrows are coming whether they're fair or not
I get the rep here of being a Lebron fanboy and thats not unwarranted. But truth be told im just about equally as big a KD fan at this point. I just haven't been put into a position to add a counterbalance to some of the slings and arrows that may be thrown his way like a Lebron. Durant is still very much in that fresh faced, lovey dovey portion of his career where everything is sweet and dandy and everyone loves him. But no chips in another year or two, those arrows are coming whether they're fair or not
Right now, today....Miami or the field to win a title?
I'd still favor Miami over any individual team, but the field gets a way bigger slice than 50% of the expectation pie
But I don't think its a Championship comparison. Durant will still be loved regardless, unless he does something really stupid to get people to hate him. Another couple years with no rings will start the all time great player criticism, but he won't lose fans.
As for Wade, he started getting symptoms of drop foot yesterday, thats how the Heat have labeled it
It's literally a massive symptom of a damaged lower disc progressing and getting worse. I can't stand Wade, but I hope that's just a BS injury they are claiming.
didn't mean to jump on you like that without reading your whole post. I was just referring to media scrutiny and expectations with regards to KD being on the way. Anyone that great is gonna feel it mount once they get into that 7th and 8th year
But yeah, the Wade thing just sounds so strange. Herniating my L5S1 disc a couple years ago was such a eye opener. Drop foot was every doc's biggest concern and thankfully I never got it. But if I did, i probably would have had to get surgery (anyone for that matter). You can rehab it, but i can't see an athlete still playing with it which is why I don't buy this as his injury, especially being listed as day-to-day. All signs point to either it being BS, or they are trying to buy time before shutting him down for the season, there really isn't an inbetween.
Wade said his leg felt like it "shut down" and that he "felt like I couldn't move my foot."
"I was out for warm-ups and my foot got a little numb ... as time when on it started going up my leg a bit," Wade told reporters. "The nerve on my leg shut down; weirdest thing ever. I was out there moving around and warming up, I couldn't feel my foot so I didn't want to jump on it."
He's officially listed as day-to-day and is flying to New Orleans and will see the Heat's team doctor. Wade said the condition is something called "drop foot." Wikipedia describes it as this: "Foot drop is a gait abnormality in which the dropping of the forefoot happens due to weakness, damage to the common fibular nerve or paralysis of the muscles in the anterior portion of the lower leg. It is usually a symptom of a greater problem, not a disease in itself."
He said he Googled his diagnosis and said his symptoms began to improve.
His availability for the All-Star Game is in question, but he said he's optimistic.
"The nerve was aggravated and shut down. I want this to calm down a little bit and get back to feeling regular," Wade said. "I'm not optimistic, I'm not pessimistic [for the All-Star Game], I just want it to get better."
Wade has missed 15 games this season, 12 due to his troublesome knees, one because of illness, one because of a migraine and now one because of this foot issue.
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definitely expect teh 1 on 1 lebron vs durant
West vs. East is better than Team USA vs. Team Spain in terms of talent. It is literally the highest level of competitive basketball that is possible on planet earth. I understand why players don't want to give it their all in an exhibition game in the middle of their mid-season vacation. But I really wish we could get a more competitive game where teams actually try on both sides for 48 mins.
They royally fucked up all star saturday this year though with all these changes. Especially the dunk contest. Just brutal they way they tried to reinvent everything.
Durant guarded Lebron for most of that 1st, but Battier was mostly on Durant
KD is the MVP right now, but a night like tonight and a recent stretch like Lebron has had on this road trip makes it a lot closer to a tossup. If the Heat finish with best overall record this year between Wade's constant day to day status, and their historically awful rebounding situation, its a tossup
Durant has now made 5 in a row i think
I sometimes think about those rosters he dragged to 50+ win seasons, and I wonder where LeBron would rank in history with just some real help his first 5-6 years in the league.
The playoffs are a couple months away though. You think he would have to wear a mask that long if its a broken nose? I honestly have no idea
Given how bad the Knicks are, I've basically turned my attention to the league and watching guys like LeBron and KD chase history. And I just think it would be a pretty cool aesthetic if KD won the MVP and LeBron wore a mask on a playoff rampage avenging his loss of the award, a la Jordan vs Malone (I think that's right?).
He might have dodged a broken nose. Mask may not be necessary, but still getting an x ray. Swollen and bloodied
rockets a stop away from winning in GS and extending their win streak to 9. Seems like every Warrior national TV game is a thriller that goes down to the final minute
Curry hits on a wild drive and ties the game with 3 seconds left. TNT right now
But chris r being a hater is as much a given as D-Rose rehabbing something.
Warriors get the W. I hate when teams foul with a lead on the last possession to prevent a three to tie. Might be the right coaching move but it takes the steam out of the end of these games
Re: Lebron choosing the easiest path to get a title. Any place Lebron goes becomes a winning team because of how great Lebron is. That Cavaliers supporting cast is one of the worst I've ever seen carried toa finals-- though I think AI's supporting cast in Philly was worse. It would be foolish to go to a crappy situation just to go to a crappy situation. I wouldn't wish Melo's situation with this roster and this owner on anyone.
I'f I'm Lebron, I'm going to a place that has a smart front office and the ability to but strong players around him.
2. Ind 41-13
3. Miami 39-14
4. San Antonio 40-15
Among that foursome the Pacers have been by far the most fortunate. You absolutely cannot get any healthier than their starting 5 this season, only 5 combined missed games (3 from Hill and 2 from Stephenson). OKC has dealt with the Westbrook stuff. Miami has dealt with Wade being day to day all year. San Antonio has probably had it the roughest of all and now tony parker is out for the forseeable future
The glaring difference between those teams right now is how many losses Miami has against sub .500 teams. Theyd have the best record by far among that group if everyone had played equal in those situations. They have 10 losses to sub 500s to be exact. Thats compared to just 5 for Indiana, 3 for San antonio and 6 for OKC. The Heat have been hampered by that fat cat syndrome which is not uncommon among teams in their shoes chasing the threepeat. Its tougher mentally to get up for a random regular season game against a random team for them than it is for a team who is still trying to prove something every night like an Indy or OKC. But when their antennas are up and they circle you on the calendar, theyre damn tough. 15-4 against winning teams this year, by far the best record in the nba
I think its so vital for the Pacers to nab home floor if they want to beat Miami in this postseason. Their lead was once as high as 5 games in the loss column, and now the Heat are on their heels as we begin this stretch run. It would really be a devastating mental blow to Indy who has made home court an open priority
(Sidenote.. it looks like LeBron is going the Carlos Boozer route with his hairline.. just let it go, my man)
As for the record thing, i saw that yesterday, its just freakish. Pretty crazy to have the same record 4 straight years through 53 games. And this year they've already had more losses vs sub .500 teams than they ever did in a full season before. But are playing better than ever against the +.500s. It's been a weird year. They've clearly been a team who picks their spots focus and intensity wise with all the recent playoff mileage. and its tripped them up a ton this year in games you wouldn't expect. But the record is still the same
They wont match last years 66 wins though because there is no 27 game win streak coming
Goran Dragic is another kinda under the radar stud this year. IMO, Dragic has been better than Lillard this year yet he has received a fraction of the hype. I was pissed when the Rockets basically chose to sign Lin instead of keeping Dragic, even if Dragic loved Phoenix. I think Lin is a really solid PG, even if he's overpaid. Lin can contribute on a winning team. But it sucks watching Lowry and Dragic blow up this year and thinking "what if?", because both guys could easily be on the Rockets right now. Dragic/Harden would've been an awesome lefty combo. Dragic is a guy who I'd consider a Top 10 MVP candidate this season, and Lowry isn't too far behind.
Howard will get 1st team All-NBA. Noah probably deserves 2nd team over Hibbert.
Now of course none of this is an optimal way to run an offense and the Bulls offense still sucks. But that's another story.
The 8 teams in the playoffs right now in the East will probably be the 8 teams who finish the year there
If LeBron sustains, he'll be the only player other than Dirk to score over 1.1 points-per-post-up since 04-05 (200+ poss). Via Synergy.
Rockets remaining sked is just crazy hard. Dallas is the only playoff team with a tougher remaining schedule % wise. You guys are going to have to play very well to hold off the Clips and Blazers for home court in round 1. They just have easier schedules and the Clips sked is also home heavy on top of it. I wouldn't count them out though.
If OKC is healthy you still favor them out West, they're just a tier above. But with the Westbrook issues, their inability to add a shooter, and Durant probably tailing off somewhat from this wildly impressive yet unsustainable pace (unless he is legitimately the GOAT) it's not like they're not vulnerable to a very strong 2nd tier group in the conference that includes the Rockets. Especially if they have the real Dwight Howard now. He has been awesome of late. Glad that mini injury scare last night proved to be nothing
I'm telling you, this team is so Giants-esque it's scary.
Irving has had a big night, a couple massive threes in this 4th quarter, Cavs up 6 with min left
But because of the time limit on back to back posts, its now 2 min
Three straight L's out of the break, all at home for OKC
But I'm posting to bring up a different point. Remember that book Phil wrote writer after he left the Lakers which put a lot of the burden for the breakup on Kobe. I don't remember him questioning Shaq's work ethic back then in such plain English. Maybe my memory is fading but this seems to be the opposite of the book slant
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It was definitely not flattering to Kobe and chose Shaq's side, but i don't think he gave Shaq a total pass. In either case the revisionist spin all parties (Shaq in particular) have tried to put on the breakup is a bunch of bunk. It wasn't solely because Buss wanted Shaq to take a paycut and he wouldn't. That explanation is just a convenient way to shield both from their role in those immature squabbles. The further those two get removed from that era, the more they only remember the good times. Ive seen Shaq very complimentary of Kobe of late and vice versa
Id love to skim through the book again at some point, it was quick flowing and written in the style of a diary. But i seemed to have lost it in the shuffle when moving a couple years ago
Shaq was indeed lazy and immature at times during his career, thats a matter of public record. Notorious for reporting to training camps out of shape in the 2nd half of his career. Openly admitted he dogged it defensively for an entire regular season in 2001 just to sulk and prove a point about his displeasure with Kobe's growing role in the offense, led to the Lakers having a horrifying regular season on D (worst ever by far from a champ). Then of course he turned it on in the playoffs and led them to a 16-1 record and a title. He also delayed a toe surgery until just before the season started saying "I got hurt on company time, ill rehab on company time".
Things like this are why he is not the GOAT and only won 1 MVP despite being as dominant a force as has ever set foot on a basketball court at his ceiling. He's easily one of the top 10 players of all time, and you could still say he underachieved a bit
Im excited to see what Jimmer could do if he gets minutes under Thibs, they need a scoring punch off the bench and it wouldn';t be stunning if he could somewhat fill the role Nate robinson did last year
but most importantly tonight.... the return to 500 for the nets!!!!
LeBron jacked a few 3's trying to get to 60 - still stuck on 57. 59 now.
What an amazing player.
The 2011 finals might have been the best thing to ever happen to Lebron long term. Humbled him, forced him into deep self evaluation, and he emerged from it a much more complete offensive player. Since that time he's gone from no post game at all to the best one in the league statistically. From a below average three point shooter to an elite one. Every time you think he may have hit his ceiling he shoots through it.
He has been unreal during this win streak. A PER in the mid 40s, crazy efficiency, he's back now over a 30 PER on the season (5th time in his career, would be the first player ever with five 30-PER seasons), and now in a virtual tie with Durant for the league lead in PER, in a bid to lead it for the 7th consecutive year. Even though he's dealing with the mask from the broken nose, this is also the healthiest he has been all year. At various points this year he has dealt with back, shoulder, ankle and groin ailments and is finally starting to get past it all
Whoever finishes 2nd in the MVP vote this year had about the most impressive number 2 finish ive ever seen.
Anyway awesome win by GS tonight Santa. Klay Thompson was money late in that game, not only with the game winner but in the 2nd half in general.
@ LAL, ATL, PHX, GS, @ UTA, CLE, @ DEN, DET, MIL, @ NO
8 of those 10 teams are under .500. The only two who are above (GS, and PHX) will be playing the clippers on a back to back night for them, with the game in LA
.475 FG%
.606 TS%
23.9 ppg
Last 32 games
.397 FG%
.538 TS%
20.9 ppg
Broooookkkkklllllyyyyynnnnnn
the most underrated player in the history of the game.
the lebron stopper with another big defensive performance tonight (Leonard)
At this point I'd have Blake Griffin as a clear 3rd, he was just amazing in that stretch without Paul. And I think that candidacy is going to build steam as the Clips roll through an easy part of their schedule down the stretch here. Right now they're up 50 on the Lakers about to win their 6th game in a row.
Like ive said a couple times above, that schedule is going to start to even out and they will be racking up wins like crazy down the stretch. Only 3 1/2 games behind OKC for the one seed, don't know if they can catch them, but im telling you the clips have potential to reel off a 15-ish game streak here if they don't get tripped up during the next few weeks. People are going to be all over the Clips jock nationally with the way they close this season
This is by far the best Clipper team in the CP3/Griffin era. Best version of Griffin we've ever seen. Best version of Deandre Jordan we've ever seen. Their depth is better. Doc Rivers is a big upgrade on Del Negro on the bench. They're getting back Crawford and Reddick shortly. Health is going to be the important thing because they haven't been healthy in their 2 prior playoff runs together.
I can't wait to watch the West playoffs this year
Lakers are currently the worst team in the West. But knowing their luck, they'll win the lottery.
I think we're headed towards a rematch of last year.
1. MIA (43-16)
2. IND (46-15)
3. OKC (46-16)
4. LAC (43-20)
5. SAS (45-16)
6. HOU (42-19)
7. GSW (38-24)
8. POR (42-19)
9. BKN (30-29)
10. MEM (34-26)
I put Indy at #1 last time I ranked the teams and I honestly thought Indy had the best chance at that point, but with Paul George struggling and LeBron tearing it up as of late it's tough to go with the Pacers right now. It's still a 7 game series type of matchup because of the Pacers' size and toughness. OKC and a couple of other WC teams may look a little better at the moment but I'd put Indy #2 because the weak East almost guarantees them a spot in the ECF. The Nets are positioning themselves as the clear best of the rest in the East. They will probably advance past round 1 and face Indy/Miami in the 2nd round.
I think OKC is still the favorite in the West even if they've been a little inconsistent since Westbrook's return. There are so many legitimate WC contenders but OKC still stands out as slightly ahead of the rest. 2-6 in the West is about as close as it gets and the real strength of the NBA right now. Any of those teams can make a run to the WCF and win. I think Portland is probably the team I'm least sold on in that group. They have a 5 games lead on Golden State but I don't fear them the way I fear the Warriors. GSW might have the highest ceiling out West in a playoff series with their hot shooting and defense, but they won't have homecourt in the playoffs against the other contenders. The Clippers, Spurs, and Rockets are probably the 3 teams outside of the Thunder with a realistic shot at the Finals. I like what I see from the Rockets but I think they're #3 among this trio of teams because of their relative lack of experience. The Clippers seem more poised to make a deep run this year and no one has more experience than the Spurs. I think I'd give the Clips the slight edge over the Spurs now that it looks like Blake Griffin has hit that next level.
In terms of the MVP race...
1. Durant
2. LeBron
3. Griffin
4. George
5. Curry
6. Paul
7. Love
8. Dragic
9. Aldridge
10. Noah
Durant still had a slight edge but LeBron is chasing him down right now. Any "tie" will give the MVP to Durant so LeBron really needs to do something special to distance himself from Durant by the end of the year. It's going to be tough to do that for LeBron considering that Durant is still killing it even after his hot streak ended. It's a very clear 1-2 with a monstrous gap to #3.
3-10 in the MVP race can be ranked literally any way you want this year. I think Blake deserves the #3 spot at this point in the season after his fantastic performance recently and carrying that team in Paul's absence. But one month from now I could see the list being way different, I have Aldridge at #9 and he was Top 5 for me for most of the season. I still have Paul George as 4th on the MVP list despite his recent struggles. But I can see how some would rank him lower that that.
hitdog42 : 3/6/2014 10:32 pm : link : reply
Duncan would have a 5th ring and be a permanent imprint on the mt rushmore of basketball.
How about were it not for Tim Duncan scoring just 3 pts in the 2nd half and OT of game 6 after a 27 point first half? Or missing the layup in game 7 that could tie the game in the final minute
Duncan exists in this zone where everyone waxes poetically about him, talks about how under appreciated and under the radar he always is. But that sword cuts both ways. No one ever comes down on Tim Duncan for anything either
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if it were not for ray allen
hitdog42 : 3/6/2014 10:32 pm : link : reply
Duncan would have a 5th ring and be a permanent imprint on the mt rushmore of basketball.
How about were it not for Tim Duncan scoring just 3 pts in the 2nd half and OT of game 6 after a 27 point first half? Or missing the layup in game 7 that could tie the game in the final minute
Duncan exists in this zone where everyone waxes poetically about him, talks about how under appreciated and under the radar he always is. But that sword cuts both ways. No one ever comes down on Tim Duncan for anything either
I don't think anyone comes down on any 37 year old player.
Its OK to knock Tim Duncan for one thing in his entire career, it would be the first.
He was drafted into perhaps the best situation in nba history save for Magic and Kobe. He has the sharpest organization in the league finding talent like Parker and Ginobili - two hall of famers - outside of the lotto. A GOAT short list head coach, stability every year. Theyve remained contenders even in the post prime stage of his career
More than that, i thnk its because Duncan is just a boring, non polarizing figure. It's true that he flies under the radar, but that goes for good and bad
He did go the final 21 minutes and 31 seconds of regulation and OT without scoring, after dropping 30 to that point, shooting 0 for 6 in that span
In game 6 Miami made an adjustment to stay at home on the shooters and allow Bosh to go 1 on 1 with Duncan. Duncan took full advantage and shit all over Miami in the first half. Miami did adjust in the 2nd half but theres no excuse for Duncan just completely disappearing like that and not scoring a point in the final 21:31
The layup you referenced happened in game 7, different game all together. Thats when he had the chance to tie it with like a minute left and missed as easy a look as he will have in his career
Im not trying to kill Duncan here though. But among all the story lines in last years finals, especially the last two games, his disappearing act late in game 6 and that miss at the end of game 7 is virtually never mentioned
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People nitpick Kobe because of the Shaq episode, because he was cocky as fuck and wouldn't pass the ball, because of Colorado, etc.
People nitpick KG because he didn't win a ring in Minny and because he's a complete asshole.
What has TD ever done that would cause people to nitpick?
Duncan is not nitpicked because hes boring. Not even his wife coming out and announcing to the world that Duncan is bisexual and has had a 10+ year boyfriend can make headlines (and that has happened, if you hadn't heard it im not surprised, hes Tim Duncan). Hes a non polarizing, non needle moving being who exists in his little small market corner, which does in some ways underrate him, but in many ways shields him from any criticism. Because no one cares enough.
People give LeBron a bit of a pass for his 1st Finals and Spurs series. He was absolutely pathetic in that series but he gets a pass because he was so young and had no help and was going up against one of the best Spurs teams of this era. But Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan forced LeBron into an embarrassing series.
Also a lot of crazy shit gets said during divorce. What his wife said could be true or not but I'd consider the source for that story.
If you wanted to make a case to nitpick Duncan (and again, key word here is nitpick, hes an all time great, top 10 all time player, id have him ahead of Kobe very clearly on an all time list). But if we're holding him to the same standards we hold everyone else in the conversation... Lets start here...
Lost 6 series with home court advantage (im not including 2000 when he was hurt), thats a whopping amount. Never successfully defended a title in a league where repeats and threepeats happen like rain in Seattle. A bit underwhelming in eliminations games career wise, shoots just 44% from the floor. No matter what age he was, if any other number of all time great players were held scoreless in the final 21 min 31 seconds of a championship clinching game, they'd get killed. No one ever holds him to the fire for his poor FT shooting over the years the way they do other guys who shoot sub 70% career.
No one ever uses supporting cast or circumstances against Duncan the way they are prone to do for others, when he was drafted into arguably the greatest situation ever as a rookie, and is blessed with the best run front office in the league.
Hes an all time great. But if you want to nitpick, and no one ever does with him, theres a lot you can talk about
Yes Duncan had a great organization but that argument gets blown to bits after what he did in '03. He carried a cast that might've been worse than LeBron's Cavs teams to a title in a brutal conference while leading his team in basically every category and being arguably both the best defensive and offensive player in the playoffs. He was basically doing what Joakim Noah is doing right now x10 and carried that team to the fucking Finals and threw down a near quadruple double to ice it. Better start to finish season than any LeBron has currently had.
But the general public doesn't even care about Duncan's epic 2003 run. So you can say he gets under-scrutinized but he is also extremely underhyped. You're just not going to get many extreme opinions of Duncan.
You know what I mean. Megan Fox's thumbs are definitely weird, be my guest and pick a better hot chick/exaggerated flaw analogy.
Even though Manu and Parker had yet to come into their own, its a real stretch to call that cast worse than Lebrons Cavs casts. Hell even that old version of David robinson was probably more impactful than any player Lebron played with in Cleveland, playing at a +.200 WS/48 clip in the playoffs and anchoring the paint defensively. Did a good job on shaq in the aforementioned Laker series. A series where the Spurs also shot 47% from downtown, led by Bruce Bowens ungodly 17 for 26 in the series (by the way he led the league in 3 point shooting that year and was probably the best perimeter defender in the league)
They may have lacked a reliable 2nd scorer, but the same could be said for every Cav playoff team Lebron played on. That spurs teams was just well put together, a well oiled machine under Pop. Easily one of the lesser casts in recent years, but lets not compare them to cleveland
The best Cav cast Lebron played with was in 09 and he was eliminated that year while averaging 39-8-8 against Orlando, can't do much more.
Im rooting for Miami when that series comes, and Roy Hibbert scares the shit out of me, way more than he ever should. Ive just seen him eviscerate Miami's small ball front court too regularly. Greg Oden is the only guy on their roster who isn't completely physically overmatched
I'm inclined to view his playoff performance against Miami as an anomaly.
But i agree Roy Hibbert averaging 22 a game for 7 games against anyone is always an anomaly. I do expect him to be north of his normal averages in that matchup though, every big man kills Miami. And West is a matchup nightmare too the way Miami is asking Battier to guard the 4 spot this year. Their traditional 4/5 tandem and size up front just gives Miami issues the way Miami lines up. You know going in they're going to massacre the Heat on the glass
Hibbert is averaging 11 ppg this year on .458 % FGs. If the Heat hold him to that they win the series in 5 games tops.
Of course Wade was also highly ineffective in last years series because of the knee issues. We don't know how hes going to be physically over 2 months from now. But unless he's out entirely, its tough for him not to be better than he was in last years playoffs
Miami is the clear favorite but Indiana just matches up very well
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Miami at 43-16
Behind them you have a Rocket team who has the best record in the league since the break, 43-19 overall, Harden and Dwight both playing first team all nba caliber basketball this year and will probably both be selected as such. Just knocked off Miami and Indiana in the past few days.
A surging Clipper team at 44-20 despite missing Paul for 6 weeks, with the best point differential in the league, and very arguably two of the top 5-7 players in the game
Those 6 teams right there, in any order you want to rank them, is probably the most impressive top 6 the NBA has had in a long time. As strong as any year i've seen
And im not going to even include Portland who record wise is right there with all of them, mainly because they lack playoff experience and have struggled defensively this year (although they do lead the nba in d-rating since the all star break)
Nor will i include Golden State who may be up and down but can win anywhere, anytime, against anyone, and will be a bitch in a series for anyone to handle if theyre healthy
The top 1/4 of the league this year is as strong as its been in a long time. Of course you'd love to see it more evenly distributed between the East and West, it would make for a much more well rounded postseason. But the Western playoffs are going to be crazy
Every era has its detractors as its in progress. Jerry West said what he said, and take nothing away from his career at one point in time as a player and talent evaluator, but dude is pushing 80, 10 years ago he lost his marbles, went on national tv and made a fool of himself not even knowing where Hakim Warrick went to college when he drafted him. He just came off as a bitter old man in his rant
Long term this period right here is going to be looked at as a glory age of sorts, no era is looked at that way when in progress. The athletes have never been better, the skill level has never been higher, guys shoot it better than they ever have. Defense is better and more complicated than ever. The current crop of stars will be remembered quite fondly 15-20 years from now, spearheaded by the two guys at the top who are giving us one of the GOAT MVP races in terms of quality of play for the top 2 guys
Chicago always plays Miami well in chicago during the regular season. I think they're 6-1 in the Lebron era at the united center. Postseason though its 1-4
Them= J's of course
Them= J's of course
Lebron should never have blamed those jerseys against SA. Sounded like a cop out for a bad game. haha
I think it also came a game or 2 after his 61 point game. Wonder if he thought about wearing a bigger size so he could have that extra room??
This is why people hate the Heat because of shit like this.
There has been way too many Knick games as well on national TV. NBA has gotten a lot of bad breaks this year with it.
I think the problem is that you need to show some eastern conference/midwest games. Outside Miami and Indy.... the Knciks and Bulls were suppose to be watchable. Well the Knicks suck, Rose got hurt. And thats that. Indy isnt very watchable either.
The Lakers you knew were going to struggle to make the playoffs. Howard bolting, Kobe missing at least the first 1/3 of the year with the achilles. Putting them on so much was destined to blow up in their face
With the Knicks, no one could have predicted this shit show of a year
But if I have to watch eastern conference teams. Its Miami, then Indy, then still Chicago. No one else is really fun to watch.
No way all that happens in .9
How many offensive boards are they gonna allow the bulls down the stretch of this game? Even when Miami goes "big" and plays Bosh and Birdman together (which is rare) they still get horsed on the boards, i think every bucket the bulls have scored in OT has been a 2nd chance point
Sounds like you are selling him short. He plays fantastic defense which was on display tonight. He's got a lot to learn on offense but that's not why he's here.
But he kind of eased his way into the season, limited minutes first couple months, was nagged by injuries some, coasted a bit defensively. Still wildly productive and showed great closing speed with that 7-8 week stretch heading into this road trip to put himself right there with Durants years even when Durant is having one of the very best seasons in league history by many measures. But from November through March Durant has just had the better full season campaign.
There is still a lot of time left. Ultimately i think the guy who gets it will be the one with the best record, whether thats fair or not
And Jodie Meeks is gonna drop 50 today lol
Lakers somehow got back in this game and we have a good one
Miami could actually gain ground on Indy during their 3 game losing streak
And by the way, David Lee doesn't suck at defense anymore.
Rockets and Blazers played a crazy one tonight in Houston, Rockets keep rolling
His two biggest issues coming into the season were his defense and his lack of a mid-range game. His defense is still an issue, I think it gets blown a little out of proportion because of all the ugly gifs but he is absolutely a below-average defender. He seems to play better against slower/bigger opponents than speedy guys on the outside. But he has definitely improved his mid-range game this year and is going to work in that high post area more often. That has instantly made 2014 Harden a more complete offensive player and tougher to guard than 2013 Harden, even if their offensive stats are identical. Hopefully this helps him have a better playoff run when he will run into top defenses.
The Rockets look really good right now. They are piling up some quality wins over legit contenders and their two stars are both playing at a Top 10 in the league level over this stretch. They are a legit title contender if they play like this.
At the top of the West, there's still real value in getting the 2 seed and avoiding GS in the 1st round. As flaky as the Warriors can be, they're dangerous - much more so than Dallas, Memphis, or Phoenix. OKC is 2 up for #2, but HOU and LAC are really hot.
Big game for the Nets tonight against Toronto - basically must-win if they want to stay in contention for the Atlantic.
If the refs dont call those fouls where he is trying to draw contact, his game gets affected big time.
But the improvement in his mid-range game has made him less reliant on drawing fouls on drives to the rim.
Let's say that 0-5 feet is the "At Rim" area, 6 feet to the inside of the 3pt line is the "Mid-Range" area, beyond the 3pt line is a 3 pointer duh. These are Harden's FG% by distance in those areas over the past 2 years...
Distance ----- 2014 --- 2013
At Rim ------- .601 --- .571
Mid-Range -- .414 --- .332
3 pointer ----- .350 --- .368
The difference between .414 and .332 might not seem massive but it really is. His mid-range game is respectable this season. Last season he lived and died at the lines, both the 3 point and Free throw lines. This year he is a little more versatile offensively and can get his in more areas of the floor, which is especially helpful with a big guy down low like Dwight.
We'll see how he does in the playoffs but I think he is better suited to face elite defenses than he was last year.
Hardest to easiest
1. Dallas
2. OKC
3. Mem
4. Hou
5. SA
6. PHX
7. LAC
8. POR
9. GS
As of a week ago the Rockets had by far the toughest but just got done playing Miami, Indy and Portland and emerged no worse for wear
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the brooklyn backcourt having a strong showing after Toronto blitzed them early
terrence ross is a heck of a talent, and duane casey should be coach of the year candidate
Another huge game for Al Jefferson tonight in Charlotte. And ever since they snubbed him for the all star game he has been ridiculous
Heat survive, big 4th quarter by Wade who actually played on a back to back tonight for only the 3rd time in 13 chances
Lebron didn't shoot a FT attempt, 2nd game in a row, first time thats happened since he was a teenager
Plumlee has been shockingly good this year. No offensive skill and needs some defensive refinement, but he's looked the part overall, can really finish around the rim, and provided athleticism/energy that the Nets can't get anywhere else. I wonder if he'd be able to play major minutes with Lopez going forward. I think it's possible depending on matchup.
again on nba tv
This is a blowout so he may not even play in the 4th
It was also the best thing for James Harden. He would have never been allowed the opportunity to hit his true ceiling in OKC, there's only one basketball to go around and he'd probably still be the guy sacrificing shots and minutes there. OKC would undoubtedly be better with him, but they wouldn't be quite as unbeatable as it seems on paper
But Roy Hibbert agreed to terms with the Blazers in restricted FA two years ago, and the Pacers had to think long and hard about matching because this is before he truly broke out as a DPOY candidate and everything was based on upside, plus the Pacers generally watch the purse... Imagine they didn't match? The East is a 1 team race, and Portland surely isn't such a mediocre team defensively. They have the top offense in the league this year, they'd probably have a top 10 defense too with him anchoring the paint. And we actually might be looking at them as a legit threat
By the way Bynum looked great for the Pacers last night. Another big body that Miami can't match up with if his head is on straight.
The contract they gave to Kobe was so ridiculously stupid. I hope Kobe can bounce back next year though, he's arguably one of the 10 best to ever lace them up.
My question is why haven't the Blazers been more proactive in adding veteran bench types? (The Clippers, for example, are loaded with those types of players.) They're actually in the bottom third in team salary this season and I can't imagine Paul Allen is too cheap to add salary.
Miami is just going through one of those regular season lulls right now. Thankfully for them the Pacers are too.
sloppy game
BOOM!
Blake Griffin just committed a foul on a half court heave in the act of shooting at the end of the 1st quarter. Allowing GS to tie it at 29 at the end of 1.
If the Clips win this game they will have won 9 in a row and do not play a +500 team for the next 6. I thought when they got this to 5 that this streak had potential to hit the mid teens. If they get through tonight it may be free sailing for a while. The one that could get dicey is at denver on a back to back night, playing in that altitude especially on a back to back can be tricky
14.3 rebs
57.9% FG
3.0 blk
Minimum of 28 pts scored and minimum 50% FG in each individual game. Tonight he has 40 and 21 with 3 blks
Shaq 20 years 347 days
Davis 21 years 5 days
Davis is the youngest to ever do it in regulation though
First of all, that thread was a joke. A few hockey players in full pads from head to toe come back after some injuries and play which adds up to all hockey players are super-tough? Was that the point of that thread?
Dunleavy gets run over and rocked. He takes the charge. Gets an elbow to the head. Blood everywhere. He runs off. They stitch him up. And he comes back to put up 18pts in the next quarter! That was impressive.
43 pts on fewer than 20 FG attempts and fewer than 15 FT attempts is ridiculously rare. Lebron accomplishing it tonight is only the 5th such effort in the past 30 years by a player
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Marc Gasol sprained his ankle tonight against Miami too. Since he returned from his injury earlier this year, Memphis has the best record in the West. Without him they've been terrible. If he has to miss a few games that could really hurt them in that 8 seed race
Hand the man the MVP already.
Hand the man the MVP already.
Yeah, its over.
When you adjust for pace, seasons where a player averaged a minimum of 32 points per 75 possessions, and their TS% relative to the league average (la) in parenthesis
1987 Jordan 34.8 pts/75 (+2.4 vs la TS%)
2006 Kobe 34.2 pts/75 (+2.3 vs la TS%)
1988 Jordan 32.7 pts/75 (+6.6 vs la TS%)
1993 Jordan 32.2 pts/75 (+2.8 vs la TS%)
1990 Jordan 32.1 pts/75 (+6.9 vs la TS%)
2014 Durant 32.0 pts/75 (+10.0 vs la TS%)
1991 Jordan 32.0 pts/75 +7.1 vs la TS%
He is redefining the bounds of just how efficient a huge volume scorer like that can be. Strictly speaking from a pure scoring standpoint, he is as impactful right now as Jordan ever was and more efficient
I was wrong, there are 3. I had no idea that Kevin Durant had this level he could get to. I thought he'd be a Barkley-tier type of player but he is clearly a level above that. He is closer to the Bird/Magic level than he is the Barkley/Karl Malone level. All-time great player and it's fucking awesome that we get to see him go head to head vs. LeBron with both in their primes.
But the more I watch Anthony Davis the more and more I feel confident about his future. I think he'll end up the GOAT if he stays healthy.
LeBron at 29. Durant at 25. Davis at 21. Pretty damn awesome.
This year I'm completely sold on the offense. He has it all. I think he will end up scoring 25+ PPG in his prime, maybe even 28+ PPG. He is averaging 21.7 PPG on .589 TS% right now at age 21.
22/10 + .589 TS% + Good Defense (Age 21)
Is it really hard to see that become this in a couple of years...
26/12 + .600 TS% + DPOY-level Defense
I don't think it is, and if he reached the above level then he'd absolutely be considered one of the most dominated players ever.
I give Osi a ton of credit though, because at this time its tough for me to envision a ceiling for Anthony Davis. What he is doing at his age, the rate of improvement as the season has unfolded, these last three weeks hes been on a basketball God level. His skill level for someone that size is insane. I think his defense is probably a bit overrated at the time based on his splash stats and probably even behind his offense, which most wouldn't have expected coming out of Kentucky. But in short order this guy is going to be a two way monster
40/21 in W vs. Celtics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejQ0wGLIkUU
Last 8 games he is averaging 32/14 on a .580 FG% and .854 FT%.
Developing a great low-post game is probably his next step. Amazing player.
They have an identity, they are deep, and they are causing. Lot of turnovers
This is the most beat up Lebron James has ever been in a season in his life. You can't see it by the games missed total because he has played through it, but hes battled multiple times with lingering back spasms, most recently 4-5 days ago. A strained groin that he played through for a few weeks, the broken nose, about 4 separate ankle sprains, most recently saturday, but they can't give him a night off tonight because D-Wade has to take his usual one every three games off for maintenance, and they won't sit both in a race for the 1 seed.
He does have the same burst he did 6-7 weeks ago. He is mired in the worst 10 game stretch he has had since he became the consensus best player in the league during the 09 season. This is a guy who has played 4 seasons worth of basketball in the last 3 years when you include playoffs, plus his olympic play. All these consecutive finals runs and the added minutes load that come with it take their toll. Mentally and physically. I am legitimately worried that the very best of Lebron might be behind us. Thats not to say he won't still be dominant and contend for titles for several years to come. Much like MJ wasn't as good during the 2nd 3peat as he was in the first.
But forget about just Lebron. People don't realize how old this Heat team is. Oldest in the league. The majority of the rotation is on the wrong side of 30, with three of their top 7 rotation players on the wrong side of 35. They don't possess the team speed they once did, which helped them cover somewhat defensively for their lack of paint protection, but this years its all gone to shit defensively. And its not as simple as "they're just coasting". They are not as deep, Mike Miller was a definite loss. They're as bad as ever on the boards, this years team is even worse than last years team which was the worst ever rebounding team to win a title. Maybe inserting Oden into the starting lineup can help, but thats about as big a maybe as there is even though i like the way he has come along
Its gonna be tough this year. If they can get it done its the most successful 4 year team stretch since Russell's Celts
The Nets can do serious damage too.
Among those 5 teams though its all about matchups. I think the only team Indiana could conceivably beat among those 5 in a 7 game series is Miami, because of their size and the major matchup bind they put Miami into. I think the Western teams would handle them fairly easily. They have strong enough interior defenses and are good enough on the defensive glass to not allow Roy Hibbert to look like shaq against them.
OKC matches up incredibly well with the Spurs, completely owns them. If Westbrook was healthy we get another Heat-Thunder finals last year. As someone who is rooting for Miami to take it this year, Id much rather they see OKC in the finals than SA though, also because of the matchup. SA is built to give Miami problems. They have done a solid job on Lebron in the past and their ball movement is built to find open looks against Miami's trapping style, plus with the attention they have to pay to Duncan inside with bosh unable to handle him 1 on 1, their shooters get open looks whenever they want. Marco Belenelli would probably break the finals record for threes that Danny Green set last year
I think the Heat would wipe the floor with the clips though. Thats just a terrible matchup for LA. They have no answers at all defensively on the wing to battle Lebron and Wade.
OKC
SAS/LAC
HOU/GSW
POR
For me, they're still favorites, but they're going to need the big 3 to come up huge.
Of course it's not like the Pacers have been setting the world on fire either. They've beat a playoff team one time in like that past 5-6 weeks.
Its also hurt them this year in the games they have to play without Wade (which are more frequent than ever). They used to just slide Miller into the starting lineup, keep Ray allen in his regular role, and they didn't miss a beat, They were something like 24-4 entering the season without Wade. This year they really struggled in non Wade games before picking it up recently. But it definitely cost them a few games early
But my issue with them in a Miami matchup is that they're just not constructed to give Miami problems. Among the contenders, they are by far the least equipped to capitalize on the Heats soft interior. They're a poor rebounding team (even though they have the leagues leading rebounder), Deandre Jordan (as useful as he is) isn't capable of offensively exploiting the Heats vulnerabilities at the 5 spot defensively. They're not very athletic on the wings. Lebron and D-Wade are licking their chops to see the waves of wing defenders the clips have at their disposal to throw at them. They have no one to match up.
The clips could maybe win a couple games, im just saying if Im miami, they are not a team i fear whatsoever in a 7 game series.
Matt Barnes would draw the assignment on Lebron to start at least. Danny Granger off the bench is now firmly transitioned into their rotation and he'd see minutes too, maybe some Turkoglu. Thats just too much to ask from Griffin and would also take away from his offense with the energy he would have to expend on the defensive end. Plus Lebron would love to be guarded by a natural 4 like Griffin, even as freakish athletically as Griffin is, hes a fish out of water in that matchup
But the Wade matchup is a nightmare too if hes healthy. Jamal Crawford, JJ Redick (if he even returns) Willie Green are not guarding D-Wade.
holy shit what happened in this nets game. Last time i looked they were up huge, now its tied late
6th man of the year: Taj Gibson or...?
Pacers can't put those runs together as consistently so I think the series would be really tight with the Pacers winning in 6 or 7.
As far as Taj Gibson and the 6th man award. I don't know. I havent spent two seconds thinking about that award. My initial gut reaction is that front court players like him who aren't instant offense guys are generally not on the voters minds when it comes to these awards. But he is certainly deserving. He's closing games for them all the time too even if he doesn't start them
One is merit and the other is non-merit/flashiness/media attention.
I think if you reversed those, Noah could win DPOY because he's been getting so much attention for his all around play and Taj could win 6th man of the year because he's putting up 13 and 7 with elite defense which I'd argue is more valuable then the 16 ppg + not good defense that often wins it for spark plug combo guard guys.
I agree with you that he brings is more valuable than what someone like JR smith brought last year
I haven't gone through candidates in my mind though who would be on a short list this year though
I think he'll end up as some kind of combination of prime KG and prime Dwight Howard.
A HOFer for sure, but not in the GOAT discussion.
Durant is also unique in history of the league. There's been no one with his length, athleticism and shooting combo.
Im selling Anthony Davis=future GOAT because thats just the easy thing to do. Im never going to say that about a 21 year old. But its tough to envision a ceiling with him
Davis has a nice J, but a lot of his points come from running the floor and just being physically dominant (much more so than KG).
He's got no physical limitations, but then again neither does Wiggins. Not having physical limitations is not the same as being a GOAT candidate. Could he develop an amazing back to the basket game like TD or the point PF skills of a KG that combined with his unique physical ability might put him in that discussion? Sure, but its not likely and impossible to project,
One brief note on Wiggins - he's got a lot of developing to do, but I think he's getting underrated at this point. I think his ceiling his higher than Paul George though certainly lower than a generational type. He looks pretty comfortable with the ball in his hands - that's the key for me. Shooting and decision making can develop, but rarely have I seen players make big improvements in their ball handling ability by the time they're in the league. I think that's one of the reasons George's offensive game will forwver have a lower ceiling than other forwards.
Longer wingspan than Shawn Bradley with offensive touch and a runs like a guard.
And Davis certainly didn't have a major strength edge on KG at the same age. Thats just another area he will grow. He has openly said if he had to do it over again he would have stayed at Kentucky a year longer and hit the weights, because he was overwhelmed by the physicality last year as a rookie. (See his interview on youtube with bill simmons at the all star break). This year hes gotten a little bigger, but i just watched Andray Blatche bully his way to deep post position against him a few times tonight, went right through his chest and knocked him back. He's not close to as strong physically as he will be, hes a baby, and you see that defensively pretty often despite his block and steal stats
And this is supposed to be you doubting the GOAT talk?
If Garnett and Dwight Howard were combined, they would create a freakish defensive force. DPOY caliber bigs every single year. Guys who make the type of impact that Garnett and Prime Howard do on D are very rare and very valuable. There's a select list that make an impact on Defense like that... Kevin Durant and LeBron James are not on that list.
That's where he has a built-in advantage over those two. He doesn't have to be the same caliber offensive player as Durant or LeBron to be a better overall player. LeBron is a fantastic defender but bigs can impact a defense so much more.
He might not be Durant or LeBron in terms of offense, but he'll be better than Garnett and especially better than Dwight Howard.
Garnett was a better ball-handler and passer than Davis. I don't think that will ever change, Garnett was rare in that respect. But Davis has a much better scoring skillset because he can attack the rim and is far better inside than Garnett. He is going to be unstoppable in the PnR game. Garnett's passing is nice but Davis can be a better offensive player because of his scoring.
He does have a nice jump shot and can handle a bit for a PF/C. I'd say he's got good skills, but nothing that jumps out outside his physical ability.
I disagree with you though that you can't put up big volume and efficiency numbers without much skill (again not that Davis hasn't got skills). Dwight Howard put up 20 + on great efficiency and I don't think he was/is very skilled at all.
I think, in addition to his jumper, Davis gets a lot of points by being an overwhelming physical talent rather than a supremely skilled player at this point. He out runs guys for easy transition baskets, finishes over and through guys in the half court.
I wouldn't be shocked if Wiggins becomes a Paul George level player(who I think is closer to the level he's been playing the past few months than how he started the season). I'd be shocked if Wiggins is ever in the best player in the league conversation, which was where his hype was at at the beginning of the season.
Davis' scoring potential is so far beyond what Garnett accomplished. Davis may never be a great low-post scorer and that may turn out to be what keeps him from his ultimate ceiling, but I don't think he needs one to become a much better scorer than KG and even Duncan.
The offense, one of the better ones in the league every year despite a bunch of b and c level players, ran through KG. I love TD, but I don't think there's much separating him and KG (and I hate KG) besides teammates.
You made a great call on Davis' greatness early, but there's very little upon which to base a claim for him being a future GOAT candidate. There's a huge gap between all time great (e.g. Tim Duncan) and GOAT i.e. MJ.
KG (21-30): 21.9 PPG -- .545 TS% -- 25.0 PER
AD (age 20): 21.7 PPG -- .589 TS% -- 27.2 PER
He is going to be a very good scorer.
Simply put a guy who can be the DPOY and MVP in the same year is a legendary player. Anthony Davis is the type of guy who can be in the MVP and DPOY mix every single year of his prime. Can't wait to see how great he becomes.
Career playoff TS% of .524 for KG, which is pretty poor. When you adjust for the added minutes bump guys get in the playoffs and instead compare per 36, his scoring went down in postseason play virtually every season as a Twolve compared to the regular season. He only twice averaged 20 pts per 36 minutes in the playoffs and once was a small sample size round 1 exit.
Compare this to Duncan who actually raises his per 36 scoring average in the playoffs, keeps a roughly identical career TS% to his regular season standard, and owns 75 of the top 100 playoff scoring efforts between the two players.
Its a shame Dirk didn't get the credit until he got the ring, but hes one of the best playoff performers of all time. This was true before 2011. Off the charts statistically, and he found a way to lead two very different teams to NBA finals despite playing his career in a Western conference which basically had two dynasty;s in progress with LA and SA around him.
Ive seen him go into SA mid dynasty in 06 and drop 37 and 18 in a road game 7 to knock off the spurs who were defending champs. Ive seen him sweep through the Lakers in a Laker title defense season. Ive seen him be the best player on the floor in every series he played in the 2011 playoffs, series which included Kobe Bryant in a title defense season, Kevin Durant, Lebron James, D-Wade. I saw him sweep through KG in KGs prime in their only head to head meeting, averaging 33 ppg in the series on 53% shooting with 16 rebounds and KG guarding him. I saw him average 28 and 13 against the Suns in the 06 WCF to lead the Mavs to their first finals in franchise history.
Go look at his elimination game numbers. His game 7 numbers. Short list of best big game players ever. And he led the Mavericks to 50+ wins every year for a decade+ until the lockout season in 2012. Something thats only been done a handful of times in nba history.
You can';t convince me any version of Kevin Garnett wins a title with the 2011 Mavs. And i doubt highly that in dirk's place the Mavs enjoy the same success over the past 11-12 years
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Just two years ago they had a 20 game win streak going including the playoffs (won last 10 of the regular season, first 10 of the playoffs to take a 2-0 series lead vs OKC in the Western Finals. Then OKC beat them 4 in a row to snap the streak, end their season and win the series in 6
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Mark Jackson has forced a reassignment of Brian Scalabrine, league sources told Yahoo!
Scalabrine joined the Golden State Warriors in the offseason as an assistant coach.
Ownership and management have been strong advocates of Scalabrine and his performance on the job, but Jackson will have control of his staff for as long as he's head coach.
Scalabrine's role is unclear, but the Warriors want to retain him.
Jackson has one season remaining on his contract and the situation has become dysfunctional.
Jackson and Michael Malone would go weeks without speaking to each other last season.
Jackson has tried and failed to get involved with several head coaching openings over the past several months, including the Los Angeles Clippers and Brooklyn Nets, league sources said.
Ive always hated Scalabrine and don't view him as the loveable token white 12th man scrub so many do. He's a jackass. But thats a weird report from Woj. maybe Mark Jackson thinks the organization is grooming Scal to take his job
Another potential big nigyht in progress for him at Dallas on TNT. Early 3rd quarter
Hibbert made one nice move, but 2 buckets were deep lefty hook shots. Hibbert also only has 1 rebound (coming off when Oden blocked Stephenson's shot).
Also Hibbert is playing absolutely no defense in the lane so far. He let 4 guys go right to the basket because he stayed on Oden.
and now he scores again as im typing this post
Hibbert 11
Miami 10
Im stating this from the standpoint that Miami's interior defense is beyond putrid to allow this to consistently happen. I can't name many teams past or present who would allow such an irrelevant offensive player to terrorize them with such consistency
Haslem has done a nice job on Hibbert since Spoelstra dusted him off late in that first half. Earned the right to start the 2nd half because of it over Oden
They also took a three off the board for Miami a couple of minutes ago when Wade clearly wasn't out of bounds
Pacers all but clinched the 1 seed tonight
Indiana basically grabbed the 1 seed tonight. they're going to own the tiebreaker too because the Heat won't catch them in conference record
Long term it might be for the best. Without the chase and the need to grind for the 1 seed, they can be selective here down the stretch with Lebron and Wade and get guys right heading into the playoffs, spot rest is easier to justify. Especially with Lebron who is beat up
Miami obviously would rather have the home court, but Miami can win a playoff game in Indiana, maybe even two. If they won't and Indiana is going to go 5-0 or 6-0 at home against the Heat this year, then they deserve to win the conference. You just tip your cap. There may be no such thing as the "due theory", but i have a tough time seeing Miami go 0-5 or 0-6 at Indiana this year
Wade got hurt tonight again too. Maybe it was just a cramp, but it also could be a hammy
- Lebron first triple double of the season, hes had tons of close calls. He didn't play the 4th either in a dominant win over Detroit
- As Dep mentioned, Anthony Davis ankle injury, havent heard anything further though
- Aldridge finally returns for the Blazers and they get a win in Chicago
- Toronto clinches a playoff berth. 30-16 since Christmas. Now pulled back ahead of Chicago for the 3 seed at the moment. They have a good chance to break the franchise record for wins (47) despite their very slow start prior to the Rudy Gay trade.
- Kevin Love triple double in a 143-107 win over the Lakers
- Nikola Vucevic with a 24 pt 23 reb game for Orlando as they beat Charlotte in OT
That is awful and I know it's cyclical and it'll happen sometimes but it sucks. Also, any Knick fan that starts a thread about playoffs is an embarrassment. Let's get the pom poms out for a 30-43 team and root for the playoffs. That would be a complete joke if they made it. I can't wait until they clean house.
Lastly, I hope for Melo's case he leaves. He isn't a great all around player but he is a great scorer and it just looks bad that he is on a pathetic team this year, although not fair to him. Go play for a winning franchise/culture, he deserves that.
I'd like to see these 2 go at it over a playoff series. But in this one? Davis was forcing it. He had 5 airballs. 5-19.
Griffin struggled too including blowing the game tying FT.
Davis is pretty smooth and long. Looks a lot like Durant.
On another note, look at Miami's functional age weighted by allotted minutes. Like i was talking about in a prior post on this thread, the public doesn;t look at Miami as an "old" team because Lebron is the face at 29, but they're the oldest one in this league. Not surprisingly they are also bottom 5 is distance covered during games. They're just not as active as they have been in past years
Durant streak extended to 38
Durant streak extended to 38
If the Bulls can nab the 3rd seed, and Indy goes to the 2nd... I think Chicago beats them.
Rough few months for the Pacer. At one point they were up as much as 5 games on Miami in the loss column, now its tied with 2 1/2 weeks left and the Heat have the easier remaining sked by far, and the remaining head to head is in Miami
Hope Davis is ok, that ankle issue has become a bit of a problem with him. Injuries are the only thing that I worry about with him.
I'm still a fan of Paul George and would take him over a lot of higher profile stars with better offensive games, but he is clearly a guy who has handled success poorly. His off court issues are just so stupid. Hopefully he gets his shit together because they'll need him to challenge Miami.
Here are the records in the East since January 21st, the day after MLK day
Miami 21-10
Toronto 21-11
Brooklyn 21-11
Chicago 20-12
Charlotte 17-13
Indiana 19-15
Indiana has been the 6th best team in the East since over a sample that long
Good thing about the East is that the middle 4 teams have progressed quite a bit since the beginning of the year and should make for some more entertaining playoff basketball than we would've expected earlier in the season.
28 pts 6 ast 5 rebs for Steph in the clincher.
They went through Yi Jianlian's (former net) team earlier in the playoffs to advance to the finals. Yi's team finished with the best record and he was going for his 5th chinese championship. If he didn't spend 7 years in America he'd be like chinese basketball's Bill Russell i guess.
"It was so hard. These kids were so great," Min told reporters after getting emotional.
"I really appreciate my players' efforts. I admire them."
Speaking of veteran Stephon Marbury, Min was to the point.
"Is it necessary to say something to Laoma [Marbury]? He is the best."
The 37-year-old averaged 21.8 points this season, although he skipped most of the regular season due to a knee injury. His choice to play the playoffs without his left knee having fully recovered won a lot of praise from the fans.
"I just want to thank my lord and savior Jesus Christ for getting me through 1 of the toughest years of my career," Marbury said on his Sina Weibo account.
"Winning the championship is great but building character as a team will prepare the future for the next generation to come. The Dynasty is now in motion," he wrote.
Link - ( New Window )
There is still a slight flicker of light that is the 8th spot.
If it means he's actually scrimmaging with the team, then he's likely close to a return. If it means that he's just running a few drills and shooting, then this is a complete non-story.
My guess is that it's a similar deal to last year with Rose, we'll hear rumors about him looking good but he ultimately doesn't play this year. It'd be pretty cool if he was able to return in 2 weeks or so and could get a few games under his belt before the playoffs.
"Some selfish dudes in here," Hibbert said. "Some selfish dudes. I'm tired of talking about it. We've been talking about it for a month."
"We play hard, but we've got to move the ball," Hibbert added. "Is it obvious, or what? I don't know whatever our assist ratio, or whatever it is, is in the league, but it probably isn't up there. I'm really trying hard not to spaz out right now, but I don't know. We've been talking about it for a month. I'm not handling the rock. I don't know. I've made suggestions before and we do it for, like, one game, and then we revert back to what we are. I don't know. I'm not the one to answer that question. It directly affects me and the bigs. We're just out there and it makes us look bad."
"I'm lost right now," Lance Stephenson muttered under his breath. "I don't know."
"I don't know," David West said, the words struggling to escape from his gravelly voice, "what else we can do."
"I mean, your guess is as good as mine," West said. "Mentally we're just out of it as a group. I don't know. I don't know what I don't know what more we can say."
"I feel like just little things," said Stephenson, taking a stab at what's wrong. "Somebody miss a rebound, somebody miss a shot and we feel like he should've passed it, just messing up the whole individual game the whole time. We're just thinking about (the mistake) and it's showing because the next play we do the opposite thing because we're mad at each other."
Just sounds like a team in a funk.
They're not looking like any lock to meet the Heat in an ECF right now regardless of how well they match up with them
He is just an amazing defensive presence in the paint and I'd still give him the DPOY over Noah. But his offensive shortcomings are pathetic.
11.1 PPG on .457 shooting (.514 TS%)
That is just pathetic and is why he isn't in the discussion for Best Center in the game despite his dominant defense. The oldest solution in the book to an offense in a funk is throwing the ball into your big and letting him go to work. That's simply not an option for the Pacers because Hibbert is such a garbage offensive player.
The Pacers are still a strong #2 in the East because of Homecourt but I could definitely see the Nets take them out. I don't think the Raptors, Bulls, or anyone else would beat them in a 7 game series but I can the Nets pull it off. It's a shame Brook is out because with him around I could even see them give Miami some issues.
Enormous news. It keeps the Rockets' season alive. They need his tenacious defense when they go up against the other elite teams in the West who all have strong PGs. Spurs (Parker), Clips (Paul), Thunder (Westbrook), Warriors (Curry), Blazers (Lillard). Even the Suns have Dragic.
The Rockets desperately need Bev's defense. I'm so happy that he doesn't need surgery.
And lets be real here. Great as the Spurs look, they've been far from trustworthy in the playoffs in the post prime Duncan era aside from last year. And even last year Golden St gave them all they could handle in rd 2 and if they didn't blow multiple 15+ point leads in that series, who knows.....
I fear Noah having another huge series.
the nice thing would be a small rivalry developing.
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The league is cracking down on verticality. Just sent out a memo to the media. Hibbert not cited on memo, but.... (1/1)
Ethan J. Skolnick ✔ @EthanJSkolnick
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(2/2) "We have noticed that defenders have been turning sideways when jumping to defend an oncoming offensive player on drives 2 the basket"
Ethan J. Skolnick ✔ @EthanJSkolnick
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(3/3).... "This is illegal and referees are being instructed to call this a blocking foul."
Lebron hurt his back again tonight though. Staying in the game and is having a big night, but this happens every couple weeks now. Seeing him lie down on the sidelines rather than sitting on the bench ala Larry Bird is becoming all too common a sight
But remember this...
Hibbert -- 26 dunks -- 2227 mins
Oden ----- 20 dunks -- 198 mins
Even after all the stuff he has been through, Oden remains a more explosive athlete than Hibbert. A healthy Oden has so much defensive potential for the Heat. You shouldn't count on it but I really hope we see him do something.
Timofey Mozgov (illness) tied a career-high with 23 points in the Nuggets' 94-92 loss to the Grizzlies on Monday, hitting 9-of-15 shots (5-of-7 FTs) with 10 rebounds and one block in 32 minutes.
Mozgov has been a must-own player for a bit now, though explosions like this aren't necessarily in the cards on most nights. Ty Lawson was quiet with eight points, five boards and six assists, Randy Foye scored 13 points with nine boards, four assists, two steals and a three, and Kenneth Faried posted 17 points, eight boards, three steals and a block in the loss.
Moz is a decent backup center i guess, which is more than i thought hed be when he was here, but thats about what he is. If not for injuries he'd still be in that role
Tell you what though, Miami wouldn't mind having him
Notes: Atlantic division winner will own tiebreak over Chi
Clippers own tibreak over Rockets
Indy likely to hold tiebreak over Miami
Atlanta likely to hold tiebreak over NYK
The Suns, Mavs and Grizzlies all play eachother within the last 5 days of the season, so thats going to sort itself out likely then
The 8th placed team in the west would be the 3rd in the East, and likely have even better of a record than 44-30 in the east because the schedule would be easier.
Toronto also has a chance to make some franchise history, 47 wins is their all time high
If they win their final 4 road games (highly unlikely but i guess not impossible) they would tie the 96 Bulls for the most road wins with 33
JB... I tend to agree with you right now. Im not sure if thats more pro Net or anti Pacer though.
Shabazz!!!
If there was no Rose I'd love it, haha.
Just came across Blazers-Lakers 2000 Game 7 Western Conference Finals.
NBA YV runs nothing but classic games all offseason, its more rare during the season though.
Dirk with a 22 pt first half tonight. He's going to be top 10 all time in scoring by years end
Mavericks get a stop anyway though (actually 2 stops after GS got an offensive rebound). Game is tied with just under 2 sec left, maybe they put more time on maybe not
He is just an amazing defensive presence in the paint and I'd still give him the DPOY over Noah. But his offensive shortcomings are pathetic.
11.1 PPG on .457 shooting (.514 TS%)
That is just pathetic and is why he isn't in the discussion for Best Center in the game despite his dominant defense. The oldest solution in the book to an offense in a funk is throwing the ball into your big and letting him go to work. That's simply not an option for the Pacers because Hibbert is such a garbage offensive player.
The Pacers are still a strong #2 in the East because of Homecourt but I could definitely see the Nets take them out. I don't think the Raptors, Bulls, or anyone else would beat them in a 7 game series but I can the Nets pull it off. It's a shame Brook is out because with him around I could even see them give Miami some issues.
Hibbert is also a pathetic rebounder. With the NBA considering changing the vertical rule, he may very well start to look like one of the worst contracts in the league.
Mavericks get a stop anyway though (actually 2 stops after GS got an offensive rebound). Game is tied with just under 2 sec left, maybe they put more time on maybe not
The ball might have been off Klay, but Dirk hacked him so egregiously that it's a wash.
This game is crazy
Provided they make it, that is.
WOW STEPH CURRY BUZZER BEATER
How many times have teams won a game on the road with six free throw attempts?
If OKC snaps this win streak, add another layer to their ownership of SA since the 2012 playoffs
If OKC snaps this win streak, add another layer to their ownership of SA since the 2012 playoffs
Maybe, but I would be surprised if the Spurs didn't rest... everyone. They played GS last night, and they played the Warriors at the Warriors' pace. It seemed like they particularly enjoyed reminding the Warriors who the vastly better team is, so they might have something of a letdown against the Thunder.
SA is going to get home court and the 1 seed either way, but until they prove otherwise the Thunder own the shit out of them. Couldn't be more fitting than for them to break this 19 game win streak after recently breaking a 20 game spurs win streak by beating them 4 straight in the playoffs a couple years ago. Doesn;t matter how SA is playing entering the game, doesn't matter where the game is, SA has all sorts of problems with OKC for three years running
Westbrook and Tony Parker have had some pretty one sided head to heads of late and tonight is no different. Fantastic two way game by Westbrook, looks as explosive as ever with the steal and reverse dunk to force a Spurs TO.
But...
Westbrook 27 pts 6 ast 4 stl 10/20 FG
Parker 6 pts 3 ast 3/10 fg
Durant extends his 25+ point streak to 39 (one shy of Jordan) all be it on a rough shooting night by his standards (11 for 26, but 7 for 13 in the 2nd half)
10 of 12 now over SA including playoffs
I love how Westbrook was more efficient from the field than Durant while taking less shots than Durant. There was no need for Westbrook to take more shots than Durant, I think he now realizes that after Durant's dominance without him.
I'd absolutely love to see OKC vs. DAL in the 1st round to see a Dirk vs. Durant battle. Two of the best tall offensive players ever. Dirk went through Durant to win a title and I'd love to see Durant repay the favor. He looks to be on a mission this year.
I think we're headed for another Miami-OKC finals, for what would be the 3rd consecutive season (in my opinion at least)
if Westbrook didn't go down last year. Until proven otherwise the Spurs are OKC's bitch.
That's the series America by and large wants. Thats also the series Miami wants if the alternative is SA. Its just a much better matchup for them, not to say they'd be a lock by any means, but they;d much rather play OKC than SA. Keeps them in their element and they'll be able to play exactly their type of game, styles make fights and thats the one Miami would prefer for sure
OKC doesn't have a post scoring threat to exploit Miami inside where they're weak. They've finally realized how worthless Perkins is in that specific matchup and they've learned to down-size against Miami in the two games this year going smaller, which plays right into Miami's hands because small ball is how they're built to play. Can they beat Miami? Sure. But they;d have to do it playing a game Miami will be very comfortable playing. There is a reason they've owned the Thunder head to head in recent years, even though OKC has certainly taken a step forward. They're going to have to straight up out-talent Miami because they don't have the ability to take the Heat out of a comfort zone.
There was a game they blew in LA earlier this year where they similarly had a huge lead with like 2 or 3 minutes left and blew it in ridiculous fashion
Huge win for the Mavs. Dirk with 26 and 11 in the win. He needs 18 points to pass Dominique Wilkins for 11th all time in scoring. He needs 60 points to pass Oscar Robertson for 10th all time. They have 6 games left, he will be a top 10 all time scorer by years end.
Was just about to post this. Bulls need the 3 seed in the worst way.
Tonight's OKC-PHO game is a big one too. The Suns obviously are scrambling for a playoff spot, but OKC would have a chance of slipping to #3 if they lose. They'd be 2 up on LAC with a game at LAC left and the Clips would win the tiebreak with win.
7-35 from the field
1 assist
9 turnovers
This is supposed to be a Championship contender? More turnovers than made field goals. Only 1 assist! That has to be an NBA record for lowest assist total in a half. I seriously doubt a team went an entire half with 0 assists.
Unreal.
The rookie with the block at the buzzer.... Epic
bummer on durant sitting the 4th.
to me its a silly streak anyway. is it really a record? did anyone ever know how many games jordan scored 25 in a row? its a made up record. but its a fantastic accomplishment. certainly the MVP this season. cant wait for the playoffs out west
2. It was a good no call, but I could see why Lebron may have wanted a foul. I am trying to look at the overhead replay, and I am not sure how much ball Plumlee got. It almost looks as though he got underneath the ball and gave Lebron a high 5....haha. But it was the right call. Fun ending.
Not sure what he saw anyway, the ball went backwards meaning Plumlee got a piece of it.
And as far as the tantrum, well I guess its better to belittle one than to be objective.
And the ball hit the backboard after it was partially hit by Plumlee. No other reason for it to shift in that direction if it wasn't atleast partially blocked. If he only got LeBron's hand that ball would still move towards the basket, which it didn't.
Again, there was an overhead replay that showed Plumlee definitely got Lebron's hand. The only thing that is tough to see is if he got ball first. It was really close.
the ending was great given JJ had just jacked the worst shot to allow a fast break, and plumlee should be a ROTY candidate and solidified that last night with the block heard round the world.... lol.
lebron reacted fine on the court, and like a baby in the tunnel.
the heat without wade just look horrible. regardless of record and whatever, the talent level out there is brutal and the offense is so stale.
Plumlee said something like "only 3 guys need to think its a foul and they didn't, so that's good enough for me". Not sure if he said anything else post game, but I wouldn't call that admitting anything. I certainly don't expect him to say "it was all ball" or anything. Doesn't seem like the type of player who'd put a target on his back for no reason.
the ending was great given JJ had just jacked the worst shot to allow a fast break, and plumlee should be a ROTY candidate and solidified that last night with the block heard round the world.... lol.
lebron reacted fine on the court, and like a baby in the tunnel.
the heat without wade just look horrible. regardless of record and whatever, the talent level out there is brutal and the offense is so stale.
Yeah I think you are right. His ring and pinkie look like it got ball. I watched it and slowed it down and it was still tough to determine to my eye. But its still plenty early in the morning. And even if he didnt hit the ball, it's still a good no call IMO.
Hoping the Bulls get the 3 seed. A path of Washington/Indiana is better than Nets/Heat.
OKC at LAC tonight - if the Clips win, they're 1 back for the 2 seed with the tiebreaker.
Yay: Nash passed Marc Jackson for 3rd alltime in assists.
I keep watching it and keep watching it, but I can't figure out for the life of me how the hell he completes that pass. Did it go between a bunch of legs? Did he put some weird English on it?
Right, but it's the angle I don't quite get. It looks like it should go out of bounds at the baseline or hit #34, and yet it does neither of those things.
None of those no calls were as bad as the non call on a plumlee goal tend with about two min left though
Damn laptop is busted and acessing this site by phone is a pain in the ass. Havent been around much of late.
Cant wait for the playoffs though
But yeah, all jokes aside, 29 rebounds is very impressive. Mozgov...the Russian who got away.
Last night's loss could very well have cost Jackson his job if they wind up getting bounced in round one.
Indy locked up the one seed for all intents and purposes today. It is possible that miami now will rest lebron the rest of the reg season. If form holds the two seed will likely get the more favorable round two draw anyway. And there is no lock indy is in the conf final anyway
Miami just needs to get healthy and develop some semblance of cohesion that has been missing all year. They have had like 23 different starting lineups. Wade has been in and out all year. Its all been geared to peaking as spring advances and well see if it pays off
Lakers 25-55 @ Jazz 24-56
It's too bad the Dubs crack medical staff was off by four months and counting when estimating Festus Ezeli's return... The depth he'd have provided would have been nice.
Chicago is going to lose to Charlotte. They played all their guys because they're the Bulls, but they're probably better off losing, getting the Washington-Indy side.
Most amazingly, Detroit is hanging in with OKC in a game the Thunder need to clinch #2.
I can't wait for the playoffs to start. the West will be amazing and the east will be better than originally thought months ago.
Toronto and Brooklyn is a very intriguing series. everyone is sleeping on the Raptors for whatever reason all season but they have been tremendous for months now since the Rudy Gay trade. I do worry about the gap in playoff experience between the two teAms. but my initial rough thoughts seem to lean Toronto.
Golden State against the Clippers on paper is one of my favorite Rdone series of all time. Just sucks bogut got hurt
I agree with you. I can see where the Nets are coming from - Toronto is seems worse than Chicago and the Nets have performed much better than the Heat than the Pacers. But they're not beating the Heat. And Toronto is really underrated. Plus, I really dislike Chicago and Indiana, so I'd have preferred to be on that side.
Overall - Congrats to everyone for keeping this thread with Michael Carter-Williams in the 1st post going all season.
MIA: +230
SAS: +325
OKC: +470
IND: +610
LAC: +1050
Not quite but maybe the best value bets around
HOU: +2500 (I may be a homer, but loving these odds)
BKN: +3600
Last teams with any chance
POR: +5100
GSW: +5100 (absolute shame injuries hurt them, sorry santa even though you saw it coming all year)
CHI: +5600
Dangerous but not a real threat
TOR: +7850
MEM: +9600
Everyone else is considered a +10000 longshot.
MIA has owned OKC
SAS has owned MIA
OKC has owned SAS
The Spurs are probably the best bet to take out Miami. But I think OKC overwhelms them in the WCF. And we get the OKC vs. MIA showdown this entire season feels like it has been building to.
Miami has gotten the better of OKC in the past. The Heat are able to play their game against the Thunder. But I just think OKC is the better team right now, especially if Wade is limited.
Regarding the odds, I think Miami has to be the favorite still. I'd probably put SAS and OKC about even, and would definitely have LAC over Indy. I think Indy's chances of winning it all are tiny right now.
12:30 - Nets/Raptors
3:30 - Warriors/Clippers
7:00 - Nap Time/Dinner (and Hawks/Pacers)
9:30 - Grizzlies/Thunder
Sunday
1:00 - Mavs/Spurs
3:30 - Bobcats/Heat (possibly the 1st Bobcats network game ever)
7:00 - Wiz/Bulls
9:30 - Blazers/Rockets
Lots of good stuff - I'm really looking forward to watching all of it with the exception of Indy/Atlanta.
In the playoffs, I just can't see them entering too many fourth quarters with the score close and emerging from that game with a win.
probably totally reliant on the conference disparity. Miami just has an easier road to get there. my suspicions however is that they will be a betting line underdog in the finals against and oklahoma city or san antonio. people tend to forget they were a Vegas underdog against the Thunder 2 years ago
do you guys plan on bumping this thread throughout the playoffs Or starting a new one.
probably totally reliant on the conference disparity. Miami just has an easier road to get there. my suspicions however is that they will be a betting line underdog in the finals against and oklahoma city or san antonio. people tend to forget they were a Vegas underdog against the Thunder 2 years ago
What would you rather see. Heat vs Bulls/Pacers? Homer aside, how can we not want more Noah?
Yep, that's going to fascinating. Curry has never *not* shown that he can rise his level of play on the biggest stage. I'd say it's certainly among the top factors that might allow them to persevere in round one.
The other is Iguodala. I bet a trend will develop in the next few days to name Harrison Barnes as the X-factor, but I think it'll be Iggy. He's said before in interviews that he's been pacing himself this season and implied that he was actively deciding to lay back offensively just so he could unveil his offense in the playoffs. Here's to hoping that's true.
So pissed the Warriors are banged up. A healthy GSW vs. LAC showdown could've been one of the most interesting 1st round matchups in NBA history. The Clips are now a pretty heavy favorite due to the injuries to the Warriors' frontcourt. Should still be a good series but I'm pretty pissed that GSW isn't 100% heading into these playoffs.
If the Clippers lose this series at least one of those guys will have a tarnished reputation. Blake is going to finish 3rd in the MVP vote and has finally emerged as a true superstar. He needs to play like one in the playoffs to really shut his critics up and finish off this FU season.
But CP3 is the guy who has the most to lose. He's the GOAT statistical PG, ahead of even Magic based on the stats. I don't agree with that and think Magic is clearly the GOAT PG but Paul's career resume is pretty damn impressive. But one thing missing is his lack of real playoff success. He has also been outplayed in the playoffs by other PGs before.
If CP3 gets outclassed by young Steph Curry in this series and the Clippers lose the series as a clear favorite, it would have a major impact on CP3's legacy and standing in the league. The word "loser" would start getting thrown around a lot more often. He needs this series.
So pissed the Warriors are banged up. A healthy GSW vs. LAC showdown could've been one of the most interesting 1st round matchups in NBA history. The Clips are now a pretty heavy favorite due to the injuries to the Warriors' frontcourt. Should still be a good series but I'm pretty pissed that GSW isn't 100% heading into these playoffs.
The East is irrelevant until the eastern conference finals...west playoffs are must watch throughout...
Yes, he is
Quote:
If so, that's f'n pathetic. No, that's beyond pathetic
Yes, he is
Do you think that's acceptable Mook?
I'm sorry that my choice of team in the National Basketball Association ruined your day
Oh well, I guess that ship has sailed.
No, it was predictable.
More than likely, just typical NBA ref quality.
Hack-a-jordan now.
See I wish commentators would say this is why Jackson may get fired. He is running his offense through Thompson and O'Neal, going under every ball screen unsuccessfully, and who knows what the hell he is doing fouling a guy with the lead.
This is inept coaching at its finest.
Should be a great series. Rooting for GS to steal game 1 for our best chance at a 7 game series.
I dont like a single thing Jackson has done. I know Collinson is a pesky defender.... but he is making Curry become strictly a passer and not a playmaker this quarter.
Agreed, Give GS the ball, and play on.
You can't just swallow your whistle on it, what happens if they swallow the whistle then the clippers call for a review and the ball actually went off of Golden State? What do you do then, go back and call the foul?
You can't just swallow your whistle on it, what happens if they swallow the whistle then the clippers call for a review and the ball actually went off of Golden State? What do you do then, go back and call the foul?
Good point Mook..
Clippers get fouled but the ref swallows it and they have to give Golden State the ball
Clippers get fouled but the ref swallows it and they have to give Golden State the ball
I will say this though you call that tiky tack foul on Griffin...then you have to call that foul right there...
Thats what i am talking about the constant inconsistency...its awful
Paul bails out that horrific strategy
Barnes block/three was by far the biggest sequence of the game.
He stepped out!
Dont say never. I say it quite often.
19 mins to foul out for Blake. That's just insane. He needs to come through with a big Game 2.
Quote:
Carmelo is bashed constantly for only being out of the first round twice yet Paul has only been out twice and is considered the best Point Guard in the NBA and its never mentioned....
Dont say never. I say it quite often.
I am talking about in the media...Paul is loved and Melo is considered a selfish player and a loser...
This matchup, ehhh not so much
I'm shocked I'm even saying this at this point but indy is a bunch of fragile fake tough guys falling apart by the seams right now
at minimum they don't look like a team that's going to make the conference finals
Bulls Were Increasingly Confident Of Carmelo Chances Even Before Cap News - ( New Window )
Dirk really struggled. 11 pts on 4-14 shooting in this one and he missed every big shot in the 4th quarter. Good news for Dallas is that Dirk played like crap and they still had a very good chance to steal game 1.
Tim Duncan with a 27 point effort in game 1. What a legend.
I'm a little scared of Lamarcus Aldridge. Early in the year it was Aldridge who was getting the "Best PF in the NBA" hype. For the first time in years he was getting more attention than Love or Griffin. But as the season went on, Aldridge's MVP love kind of faded and Griffin and Love once again surpassed him in the eyes of the media/public. I think people are sleeping on what he can do.
He is one of only a handful of guys in the playoffs who can easily average 25+ PPG in a playoff series. The series could come down to him vs. Dwight which should be fun to watch.
Majority of players do, cant disagree with you.
Quote:
and i will preface this by saying Noah is a very good center maybe the best in the league but every time he sets a pick he is moving...every single time
Majority of players do, cant disagree with you.
This is true...
Chicago just doesnt have that go to guy down the stretch of games and in the playoffs you need that guy you can dump the ball down to to get a score late in a game...
Quote:
Guard play was going to kill them eventually, and tonight was a prime example.
Chicago just doesnt have that go to guy down the stretch of games and in the playoffs you need that guy you can dump the ball down to to get a score late in a game...
And as good of a coach as he is, Thibs stubborness may have cost him this game sticking with Augustin who could not do anything offensively or defensively. Dunleavy actually made some shots in the 3rd and didnt sniff the floor in the 4th qhen they couldnt score.
Thibs got outcoached big time this game. Whittman kept his best player off the floor because he had something good working. Thibs just kept putting a square block through a round hole.
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In comment 11629714 dep026 said:
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Guard play was going to kill them eventually, and tonight was a prime example.
Chicago just doesnt have that go to guy down the stretch of games and in the playoffs you need that guy you can dump the ball down to to get a score late in a game...
And as good of a coach as he is, Thibs stubborness may have cost him this game sticking with Augustin who could not do anything offensively or defensively. Dunleavy actually made some shots in the 3rd and didnt sniff the floor in the 4th qhen they couldnt score.
Thibs got outcoached big time this game. Whittman kept his best player off the floor because he had something good working. Thibs just kept putting a square block through a round hole.
Thibs likes to go defense in the 4th quarter which is fine when Butler is scoring and Gibson is scoring but when your guards are not playing well you need to have a better mix of offense defense..
I am shocked how much Boozer does not play in the 4th quarter...i know he sucks defensively but thats shocking to me.
I hope they dont fall in love with Augustin. He was huge this year, and made them more competitive, but to give him any kind of lucrative contract would just be crippling. This team needs Rose to get healthy and another scorer.
I hope they dont fall in love with Augustin. He was huge this year, and made them more competitive, but to give him any kind of lucrative contract would just be crippling. This team needs Rose to get healthy and another scorer.
Dont see the Bulls signing Melo....signing Melo means no Mirotic ever..i dont think the Bulls will lock themselves in like that...
With the extra space you can bring in Stephenson and Mirotic...
Say you trade Gibson and Dunleavy, amnesty Boozer...thats 27 million
puts the bulls at around 37 milllion...
cap is set at 63 million
8 cap holds: 3.2 million
plus 1st round pick: 1 million
puts you at 41 million 22 million in space...
say Melo signs for a deal starting at 18 million....that means you sign Mirotic for 4 million a year(which i doubt he takes)
then the rest of the team is vet minimum guys
Rose
Butler
Melo
Mirotic
Noah
opposed to amnestying Boozer signing Stephenson and Mirotic
Rose
Stephenson
Butler
Gibson
Noah
1. They will package them together to get a few picks higher.
2. Package them together with Mirotic or Gibson to get a top 10 pick.
1. They will package them together to get a few picks higher.
2. Package them together with Mirotic or Gibson to get a top 10 pick.
Thats just eating into more cap space though...
why would you want to strip your team to sign Melo when all you have to do is amnesty Boozer and keep adding to your core and bringing over a young stud in Mirotic and then add Stephenson or someone like that...
Adding Melo basically leaves you with Melo Rose and Noah for the next 5 years..id be surprised if Chicago does that to be honest..
I honestly dont think Melo is leaving with Phil now running the Knicks...I think before Phil got to New York i thought he it was 50 50...I think he wants to stay with New York and as long as Phil sets up a good plan he is staying..
In my opinion...
They will have two wing players who are very good defensively, however struggle shooting the ball (something you need in the NBA). Adding Stephenson (35% shooter with 1 three a game) and Butler (28% shooter with 1 three a game) really doesnt help the offense, which is their main problem. Now if they could only add Stephenson, they will be better, but by how much? I am not sure.
And you have to think Rose at best will be a boarderline top 5 PG in the game, at least to start. A guy like Melo would help decrease his role and ease him back into the fast pace game. Also, it may give him some more lanes and less doubles.
I want the Bulls to add as many outside shooters as possibly (that play the 3, not guys like Fredette or Augustin or even Dunleavy).
I just want the Bulls to make a move. If it works, great. If not, then at least they tried. Not trying to be a homer, but a guy like Nik Stauskas could be huge for the Bulls. He's definitely the one I want the Bulls to draft.
Still though, for the chance he DOESN'T stay with NY...would this be like a LA Dwight situation where he just walks away and signs somewhere? Or would it be some form of a sign and trade where we get something in return? An LA Dwight situation would be crippling.
Still though, for the chance he DOESN'T stay with NY...would this be like a LA Dwight situation where he just walks away and signs somewhere? Or would it be some form of a sign and trade where we get something in return? An LA Dwight situation would be crippling.
He also said if Phil can lay out a plan that for the next 5 years the Knicks can compete then he will stay...
Also knicks are the only team that can give him 5 years no other team can....
It depends where he wants to go...say he says he wants to go to the Bullls it may be better for the Bulls to discuss a sign and trade so they dont have to eat Boozer's salary and completely strip their team...
Rockets will need to get rid of a lot to make a run at Melo...
I think a sign and trade is likely unless he signs with the Lakers...
I think Melo does want to be in NEw York he forced his way to New York and he wants to retire a Knick but if the Knicks cant show him a future of winning he is going to leave...If the Knicks say they are going to break it down and rebuild then he will leave...
I still think Melo stays with us, I just wanted the comfort of knowing we wouldn't be left hanging if he did in fact leave. Haven't been on these NBA threads through most of the year, but watched 80%+ of the games this year and it was a tough watch. I might have to take a fucking Vicodin if I have to watch 80%+ games of a Melo-less Knicks team.
I still think Melo stays with us, I just wanted the comfort of knowing we wouldn't be left hanging if he did in fact leave. Haven't been on these NBA threads through most of the year, but watched 80%+ of the games this year and it was a tough watch. I might have to take a fucking Vicodin if I have to watch 80%+ games of a Melo-less Knicks team.
And one more thing dont listen to every rumor you hear about Melo unless it comes from Melo himself...CAA is trying to push Melo out of New York because they lost all of their power in the organization after Phil came in...
Anything you hear take with a grain of salt..
I'm not worried about the rumors, I'm just a novice when it comes to the NBA capology and logistics and really don't want an LA Dwight situation to unfold here.
By the way, if the Knicks do some fucking #StayMelo billboard bullshit like the Lakers did with Dwight I'll cry myself to sleep. The Knicks have stooped low, but I can atleast hang my hat that we haven't stooped that low.
I dare you to watch him do that for 12 minutes.
James Harden, Defensive Juggernaut - ( New Window )
Between his inexcusable defensive laziness and his flopping, foul speaking ways, he's by far the least likable good player game-wise in the league. Add D Howard and his immaturity and Beverly and his cheap shots, and Houston is one of the least likable teams in the league.
I'm not worried about the rumors, I'm just a novice when it comes to the NBA capology and logistics and really don't want an LA Dwight situation to unfold here.
By the way, if the Knicks do some fucking #StayMelo billboard bullshit like the Lakers did with Dwight I'll cry myself to sleep. The Knicks have stooped low, but I can atleast hang my hat that we haven't stooped that low.
The StayMelo stuff is his Nike endorsement that he has a say in when it comes to the commercials....he even uses teh staymelo hashtag on his twitter postings...its weird..
SAS is a mouthpiece for CAA...he is a CAA client..he just says what he is told to say...
I honestly think its Melo putting pressur eon the Knicks...liek Kobe did with the Lakers when he demanded a trade..
You could argue that pressure forced the Knicks to go out and get Phil and have Dolan step back and away from the basketball side of the Knicks...
And LOL at that foul call on Howard. NBA officiating at its finest
In the final minute of 4th quarter and final minute of overtime combined 9 timeouts. Thats absurd
Sure, I suppose, but it still destroys the flow of the game.
Sure, I suppose, but it still destroys the flow of the game.
I liked the idea of under 2:00 you get 1 full and 1 twenty second TO.
Too bad the best game of the weekend was the late Sunday game - I wish I had stayed up for the 2nd half of that one.
Harden's D really is hilarious. The backdoor in the 1st half was abominable, but the next play was just as bad. He was guarding the screener and didn't even come close to taking a single step to help. Lillard went straight to the hoop uncontested and Beverly ended up yelling at Harden. A better broadcast team would've spent some time on that.
I still can't believe what happened in Indiana.
I do think a timeout here and there can add to the drama, but after every single possession is when it gets to be way too much.
Noah didnt look comfortable yesterday. I wonder if the berevement he went on the day before for his childhood coach was still on his mind?
He had a brutal overall close to the Season and I get the feeling of voters didn't feel right Rewarding him with anything
noAh is the better player and had a better season and it just feels like the voters wanted to recognize that. This doesn't feel like a defense only vote
I think he got robbed. But I saw it coming
But one closed the year with all sorts of momentum at his back and the other is a poster boy for a team in free fall
But functioning within his role in indianas defense this season its tough to argue for a more impactul defensive piece this year.
Noah isnt an undeserving candidate. And I hate the pacers even more than chicago. So I wont shed a tear
He is overrated and just wildly out of control at times.
Hell, they should have traded him instead of Harden
He's talented as hell, but I don't think he's a great fit with Durant and I think they missed the boat on trading him
That I agree and even your account of him playing too wreckless.
Westbrook needs to tone it back
I hate when he has these spurts of wildly driving in and firing up crazy shots.
Collison is so much better than him.
Collison is the better player
They arent going to win a title with this group and Durant is going to leave in 2 years
I'm guessing Houston would have to be consider to play with harden and Dwight
But if he does leave id give my first born for the Knicks to sign him
But here's another example of astonishing decisions. You are down 2 and then down 3, why in the world is Kendrick Perkins IN THE GAME ON OFFENSE. Its a guy they dont have to guard. Just mind numbling dumb.
And KD, OMFG.
Let's go thunder
Best thing that could happen to them is him fouling out
Don't think they can't do it!
Missed foul, missed kick ball.
These are the best of the best though folks
Missed foul, missed kick ball.
These are the best of the best though folks
The NBA will admit tomorrow both calls were missed so its all good.
Comical. I guess the game was moving too fast for them when the ball was intentionally kicked
I think durant would be better off with a pass first Point Guard and a low post scorer...Ibaka is a good shooter but he doesnt have a post up game....
Westbrook is not a distributor he is a scorer..
Incredible bounceback Somehow winning that game In overtime after a collapse like that in the final 20 sec in regulation. That was a game 6 2013 finals esque series of events. And much like last years spurs the team in those shoes is going to lose that game in ot 90 times out of 100 with that momentum swing against them, especially on the road. Memphis was game though
Awesomely crazy playoffs so far. 6 of 8 series have already seen home court change hands. It would be 7 if dallas didnt blow a late lead
Grizz are a completely different team with Gasol out there. And this isn't your typical 2-7 matchup. This should be an entertaining series from here on out.
Watching toney allen defend is a joy
Hibbert's rim protection is the single most valuable defensive skill any player in the NBA provides. No other big or wing defender impacts a game with one particular skill the way Hibbert does at the rim with his size.
But Noah is the much more versatile defender because of his agility. He isn't going to affect shots near the rim the way Hibbert does but he is a pretty solid rim protector himself.
Noah wouldn't be exploited by the Hawks' stretch 5 offense the way Hibbert is. Unbelievable how people are calling for Hibbert to be benched because his defense is hurting the Pacers in this series.
It's like watching senior citizens fuck.
Cant wait to see how indy responds tonight. It can get much uglier than it already is there if they lay an egg tonight
Awesome... way to set the tone that whining after game 1 gets you calls
Bulls may get demolished this game. And Boozer watches yet anbother rebound go by him. Keep him in the game Thibs,. Great coaching.
I never seen a team get wide open jumpers every possession.
Thibs hasnt coached well at all this series either. Its been downright brutal. He is telling his players its ok for the Wizards to shoot wide open 15-17 footers all series. Going under screens, laying off bigs. Wizards are just canning every jumper imaginable.
And his offense f'n blows. He is the worst offensive coach in the league. Maybe the greatest coach ever shouldnt have fired his top offensive assistant coach.
Now 12 straight. Worst offensive coach in the NBA.
Right now on the court they have Hinrich, Augustine, Butler, Gibson, and Noah.
Not one of them is a good offensive player
Now 12 straight. Worst offensive coach in the NBA.
Lol.
New playoffs, same problems every year.
1 FG since the 4:00 mark of the 4th quarter.
Of the 5 players on the floor, name the above average offensive player.
Ball don't lie
The sad thing is if they dont get Melo.... just get ready for another season like the last 4.
Come on man. You're better than that.
Bulls have blown double digit second half leads in both games
Try being a knicks fan. Go Wizards.
Try being a knicks fan. Go Wizards.
But non-knicks fans dont go shit on Knicks threads when they lose in the playoffs.
Bulls have blown double digit second half leads in both games
I think the Pacers would beat them in 6, maybe even 5. Pacers match up really well with them.
Ok...point made.
Enough is enough.
I think the Wizards can do some damage.
I'm holding out hope that TOR/BK can atleast push them in that series.
This has nothing to do with what Jordan did 15/20 years ago, and isn't a "boo hoo" comment. When you are on the brink of being a contender and fail to get a scorer or fail to get better at scoring with what you have, its frustrating. Outside of losing Rose, there is no reason to not get better somewhere else on the court to make up for it. Bringing in Belinelli and then Dunleavy doesn't do anything.
This FO seems like its stuck between trying to make a big splash, and sitting tight and hoping it gets lucky.
Nene is absolutely killing Chicago. He's doing a great job of following Noah around far from the rim and it's not allowing Noah to facilitate like he did during the regular season. Augustin is scoring the ball so you can't sit him, but the Wiz are just attacking him constantly. The Bulls could sure use Mirotic, Melo and Rose for this series.
This has nothing to do with what Jordan did 15/20 years ago, and isn't a "boo hoo" comment. When you are on the brink of being a contender and fail to get a scorer or fail to get better at scoring with what you have, its frustrating. Outside of losing Rose, there is no reason to not get better somewhere else on the court to make up for it. Bringing in Belinelli and then Dunleavy doesn't do anything.
This FO seems like its stuck between trying to make a big splash, and sitting tight and hoping it gets lucky.
Bringing in guys like Dunleavy and Belinelli to shoot is a very good thing, but we are asking them to score, which is a bad thing.
Maybe I am in the minority, but Rose playing for Team USA is a great thing. He can ease his way back playing this summer with htem, and come out full throttle next year.
Also, Stauskas has to be on the Bulls mind come pick 16 or 19. Need a shooter desperately.
I also don't think the series is over. We can easily win any game in Washington. I just can't tell if it would be better to just get swept and light a fire under the FO to make some big improvements.
I still expect the series to go 7.
Evan Turner and Lance Stephenson reportedly got into a fistfight during a Pacers' practice on Friday.
"This stuff happens, but the timing wasn't ideal," said one witness to the scuffle. The Pacers were crushed in Game 1 but they bounced back to even the series at 1-1 on Tuesday. Stephenson had seven points, five assists and three turnovers in 25 minutes during Game 2, Turner had three points in 11 minutes off the bench, and Roy Hibbert had another awful game with six points on 1-of-7 shooting. Paul George (27 points) and Luis Scola (20 points) bailed them out, and they'll need a more balanced team effort to keep their momentum in Atlanta on Thursday.
Yeah, I am with you on this one. Stephenson is on par with Butler to me. Lance is probably better offensively, Butler better defensively. Both should be option 5 on a winning team. The problem with the Bulls once Rose returns is that they will start four option 5 guys.
You think his stock has risen that much? If that were the case, Maybe the Bulls could package the two picks and get a pick in the 11-13 range.
Bulls did a decent job reinventing themselves midseason and running their offense through noah more than ever before. But when a team like Washington puts you under that playoff scouting microscope, preparing for only one team for two weeks, that shit aint flying. its painful watching them in the halfcourt when washington is locked in with peak intensity
The wiz are the more talented team, and outside of the young back court have more playoff experience than people think. They have a nice blend of experience and youth with upside. Exciting backcourt. Capable bigs. Wings who can defend and shoot. I think they open a lot of eyes before the spring is over
Finally called for a travel after his 3rd one
Blew a ten point lead in the 4th in gm 1
You've admitted a million times that superstars get the calls in the NBA. You always condone by suggesting that it happens in all sports. Now, because LeBron has a couple go uncalled, it's overblown? Come on Joe. You're better than that. Perhaps his incessant flopping has had an effect on the calls? Not saying that's the answer, but it's difficult to bitch about calls not being made when he flails around like he got shot, with little to no contact, and gets the calls.
I do believe superior talent gets the benefit of the doubt on some ocassions but the concept over superstar calls in the nba is the most overrated thing in the universe. And this is not just a lebron thing. Its a general star thing
On another note Aldridge is having another insane night
This is unreal. If he has a big 4th, this is about as good a two game start to a series ive ever seen from a player
Wow.
Puzzling...
Fuck a youtube video. Watch the games
But go on...you are like a broken fucking record.
I really think you may be half retarded.
Ive done an awesome job not getting into it with you this season and its best that continues. But I should have known anything other than "the officials are lebrons bitch" are like a bat signal for your only nba related thoughts
I welcome the inevitable pointing out of every call he gets the rest of this postseason. If youll even be watching
Then again jeter once pretended to be hit by a pitch
Have a good one
That's fine. If you want to act all tough, go ahead. But dont act like a came after you.
Its not about you disagreeing with me. Its about the fact that every conversation with you is the same. Lebron gets every call. Refs hate melo. Same shit. Officials cost the knicks the game. Rinse repeat. every single time you and I have ever conversed the topic was one of the above three things. Without fail.
13.0 rpg
59 percent fg
2 road wins
I apologize if my comment offended anyone. Momentary lapse in judgement. One of those you immediately wish you could take back.
If the Bulls win tonight I think the series goes 7. If they lose, I hope they just get swept.
If the Bulls win tonight I think the series goes 7. If they lose, I hope they just get swept.
Ill guarantee the Bulls dont win tonight. Ill even place a bet on it ;)
James Harden has sucked in the playoffs ever since his dominant series against the Spurs in 2012. Portland is not a great defensive team, the Rockets aren't going to beat the Blazers if Harden is going to shoot .298 from the field which is what he is doing right now. Below 30% from the field... come on man.
Harden is a polarizing player. His pathetic defense and poor playoff performances are two big knocks on him. Dwight is also polarizing. The Rockets are just a weird team to root for with those two. But bottomline those two are getting outplayed by the Lillard/Aldridge duo. The series isn't over but it can be after Game 3. Enormous game in the careers of James Harden and Dwight Howard.
I'd be willing to give you 100/1 odds if you really think the Bulls have a chance in hell at winning tonight.
The only scenario I see tonight is the Bulls not winning AND not losing....
Still drunk from UConn's title? haha
I hope at this point you realize they play tomorrow, and not tonight.... haha
In any case, i'm sticking with tie as a possibility for tomorrow.
Winner of game 3 when series is tied at 1 wins 77 percent of all best of 7s in history. I wouldnt make too much of that. But I think its essential that the lower seeds win at home tonight if they're going to pull an upset though. Much more important for gs.atl.mem tonight
The cp3 play in gm 1 and the teague shot are likely going to force a tweak in replay
It's not like Atlanta is some secretly good team. They're really mediocre. No major injuries for Indiana. Is it going to come out that the whole Pacers team is banging each others moms?
Charlotte has got to be seriously pissed at Miami for not grabbing that 1 seed.
Come on man
Okc is gonna get crushed if they lose this series. But this aint your typical 2v7
Perkins is useless on offense
Ibaka is good but takes his jumpers and gets his dunks
Westbrook had a solid 3rd. Durant needs to catch fire
Force some misses and turnovers from the grizz and get out in transition
Made all of the shots the thunder took tough ones
And there bench has played well
Btw what the hell is up with udrih
2 minutes left
Westbrook... wow. Another Insane finish
Come on man free throw time
Come on man take it to the basket and try and cut it to 1 with 15 + seconds left
Durant simply needs to play better.
Lot of pressure on kd now. Much like 07 dirk the mvp feels hollow when you get bounced early as a favorite. This postseason is crazy
Looks like cp3 hammy is this years annual clipper key nagging injury
As loaded as OKC is, their complete lack of offensive scheme and teamwork really makes things hard on them. If anybody can succeed with their 1-on-1, ultra-stagnant half-court style, it's them. But it killed them last year without Westbrook and it killed them for most of the game today whenever they couldn't run.
They really lack a player with a good low post game. Durant is improving and took some pages out of Melo's book this year, but he's not some great back to the basket force.
I still think OKC should pull this one out but really impressive stuff from Memphis.
This series does in some ways make me revise my opinion from last year a bit if form holds. I am among the many who believed Westbrooks injury was the only thing keeping okc from a final last year. But maybe they never get past memphis either way. This just looks like a rough matchup
As usual, the NBA officials fucking suck and play a big part in the outcome of a game
Thats why last possession leaguewide fg percentage is so crappy. Defenses get away with a bit more
Officials didn't decide that game. And after gm one golden st has no officiating beefs
Im rooting for the wizards to win the series. But above all I just want a good series. Hopefully Chicago pumps some life into the series tonight
Also interested to see how derozan responds tonight. He was terrible in the first 7 quarters of the series but came alive late in game 2. If he can build on that and get back to his post rudy gay trade form, raps can take this. Their size is going to give the nets trouble all series. Valencunas (sp?) is a problem for them the way they play small
Thats why last possession leaguewide fg percentage is so crappy. Defenses get away with a bit more
Officials didn't decide that game. And after gm one golden st has no officiating beefs
Joe, when the contact results in a guy airballing a three, you have to call it. You can't let that go. Steph Curry is not coming up 2 feet short if he isnt fouled
And why is there no talk of curry extending the arm to create space literally less than one second earlier than the contact that everyone is upset about. Wasnt the most powerful disgard of paul but nor was the contact on curry. Its tough to get a call in that spot. Thats just the way it is. Clips know about that from gm 1
But lets worry about more important things.... like, Jimmy Fredette getting some PT tonight so theres a Bull can actually shoot the ball!
But it's not hard to call a foul when Paul clearly didnt give Curry a place to land, that's a foul every single time and an easy call.
And can somebody please shut Aldridge down tonight? The Rockets are making him look like a Hall of Famer. Dwight needs to be the best big in the game tonight.
Huge game. Not feeling too confident but I'm hopeful. Steal game 3 and you're still alive.
too much anderson.
too little KG.
too much plumlee over blatche
Blatche has been awful for a month, but at least he can rebound the ball.
he is offense over anderson and wont be a defensive liabiliy if fields is in
anderson stinks
But no defense.
Expecting a huge game from Noah today. he's been fighting with everyone including Wizards security. Time to get er done.
16 points on 34% shooting. Huh?
Nice adjustments Thibs. Guess you want a sweep too.
Garnett is so important for the team's culture. Wish he played more.
Thibs runs these players until they are to the point of puking. If you cant tell your team is strugglign because your players are tired, then you need to wake the fuck up.
nice choke by dwill gd lord
Another pathetic coaching job by him.... again.
Missed free throws, turnovers off missed free throws, cant inbound the ball, fouling guy on a 3 point shot up 5?
That had a little bit of everything.
And with Joey Crawford in this game, I expect Houston to win.
- goaltending on Portland that wasnt
- missed foul on Howard on Lillard drive
- Moving screen on one end and not the other that leads to a 3.
As soon as I saw Crawford in this game, I could have turned it off.
Maybe it shouldnt be though because sa in the playoffs aside from last year have been massively disappointing post 2007. Im not writing them off by any stretch but this could be their 2nd loss to an 8 seed in 4 years. Of course no one will bother to take the spurs to task for it because sa exists in this weird place where everyone has amnesia about every pitfall theyve hit in this era, with mouth firmly planted on their ass. This could be like the 8th series they lost with home court in the duncan/pop era.
I feel so good for vince right now. But monta ellis was the key. He was awesome. Weve seen him take the playoffs by storm as an 8 seed before in his coming out party with the 07 warriors. Now in a bigger role he has a shot to do it again
The league needs to do something about the length of replay. The end of the hawks game was a joke.
Watching okc gm 4 right now a little behind you guys on tivo. Havent read through to avoid spoilers
If you cant beat memphis with this lineup out there, you just arent that good.
Astonishing how pathetic KD has been. He deserves every bit of criticism after this performance. I am sorry, but as league MVP, you cannot be this bad at this time of the year.
He's 8 for 11, 19 points, 7 rebounds. Yes, he has 4 turnovers, but he's been pretty damn good
He's 8 for 11, 19 points, 7 rebounds. Yes, he has 4 turnovers, but he's been pretty damn good
Should have clarified I meant his 4th quarter performance. He had 3 really bad turnovers and some bad defense on Memphis' comeback.
OKC has a chance now.
Or he had Durant going streaking.
Jackson, despite my off the mark remark earlier, was the man. Especially in the last minute and OT.
This was such a weird experience watching this game. Season on the line and okc is running their offense through Reggie Jackson every trip down floor. Even a few isos.
Durant was pathetic and dodged a major bullet tonight. Toney allen and the Memphis d in general is renting space in his head. For that reason alone it doesnt feel like okc can exhale yet even after the huge season saving win. If he cant get on track they are still in major trouble.
Really interesting series in that both teams have proven capable of neutralizing the others' strengths... Westbrook/Durant have struggled and Z-Bo/Gasol have as well.
But that was one confusing and off the wall tape. espn just played the whole call and not only does sterling come off as a racist, but an incredibly bizarre one too, doesnt care if she fucks black guys. Just dont take instagram pics or be seen at games with them. Oh and btw the girl is black which adds another weird layer
Big game in Washington to kick off the day. Im not a fan of the nene suspension, but I saw it coming and I cant cry for nene for putting himself in that position. Its just an Immature moment by a guy who is supposed to be a veteran leader on that team that will now impact 2 games.
Thibs: No!!!! (loses voice). I will sub at the same rate every game.
Players: Thibs, what can we run on offense?
Thibs: What's this offense we speak of? Here's what we are going to do. Give Noah at high post, run a wheel play off of him. Take a 20-22 foot contested jumped with less than 5 seconds left in shot clock. Then lets play defense! Yay!
Still a lot of time left today.
Just a dominant night. Bulls look toast. But the 4th win is the toughest. Bulls just need to extend it in game 5 (I think they will) and put pressure on the wiz to close athome in game 6
Beals upside is still massive, and he doesn't turn 21 until June. Curry is a better shooter then Wall clearly, but Wall is also 3 years younger then Curry.
Its still very early. But if I was a clip fan id be worried about this response on the heels of this controversy
Particularly when Thompson and Lee foul out.
Energy in the arena seems a little bit better than last game, but still shit.
Livingston has to play better.
And marcus thornton needs some minutes.
NO IDEA why KG is coming out here. plumlee has been awful all series.
terrible feeling about this game
Also Dwill MAN THE FCK UP AND MAKE A SHOT.
terible call there JJ did not lower shoulder or push off.
This one is going to be on him unless he wakes up.
put mirza in i mean give me a break.
or space the floor better.
Dwill you are a max player... man the fck up
But he is just a loser now. Guy stinks it up constantly in the clutch.
The Memphis/OKC series has been awesome...
Beautiful from lillard
Getting smoked on their home floor by the Hawks again. Outscored 25-4 in the 2nd quarter so far
Getting smoked on their home floor by the Hawks again. Outscored 25-4 in the 2nd quarter so far
Will there be a Mook appearance on Saturday? let me know.
Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA 17m
Adam Silver told Leslie Alexander he would consider his suggestion, to allow Clippers players to become free agents
The 2014 pacer season is developing into the weirdest one ive ever seen. From 33-7 to getting run off the floor by a 38 win team in the playoffs.
I suppose that's the reason, since the network obviously wants to win in the Monday night nielsen ratings.
it would be nice if TNT sister network TBS would air some nba games then. ive seen TBS play some baseball games in the past. but unfortunately that's never been done in the nba before so that's impossible
Mavs cut the lead to 12
Mavs cut the lead to 12
sorry for my ignorance there, I just assumed. maybe it stopped when the nba went back to abc and the new tv deals at the time. hopefully in the new network contracts coming up no playoff games will be played on nba tv but that might be wishful thinking on my part and you certainly don't want more days being spread out between games
Hate to it because im a fan but dirk is killing his team in this series. Somehow though a 3-1 lead is still possible
Dirk hasnt had a single dirk game in this series after closing the season looking vintage
The spurs were very beatable tonight. Thats just a killer loss after fighting back from 20 down and getting a lead. Mavs were awful for much of this game and still had their chances.
Even when the pacers were free falling over the last couple months, at least they were still defending home court consistently. But even thats gone now losing three at home to the hawks this month
Roy hibbert is so lost right now in so many facets and is utterly useless in this series. He has made kendrick perkins look like hakeem olajuwon offensively in comparison of late. What a tale of two postseasons. Last year guy was killing it, especially against the miami front court
- they took Miami to 7 games last year
- 18-2 record through first 20 games
- 33-8 record through first 41 games
- Through 1st half of season, George Top 7 MVP candidate and Hibbert runaway DPOY
- 23-18 record through last 41 games
- 10-10 record through last 20 games
- George and Hibbert simply choke and start stinking it up, you really thought Lance would save them?
They were looking like a major threat to Miami at the midway point of this season. George was an emerging star and I had him in the Top 5 of the MVP race at the 41 game mark of the season. Hibbert's rim protection was dominating games and he was the halfway DPOY.
Really embarrassing season from them. 56 wins in a weak East but this team had so much more potential and they flashed it earlier in the season. They're still alive at 3-2 and maybe they man up and win this, but that's the only way they can salvage this season.
This new tv deal is going to be huge
Annoys the crap out of me to know the Knicks could have drawn them and probably beaten them with how terribly they're playing.
Does KWALL still think Hibbert is the best center in the league?
Ugh, regulated to watching it online with freezes all the time.
He's scored 24 points in 4 games, with only 17 rebounds and 3 blocks. he hasn't had a 20 point game in over a month, and only 4 games of 20+ since February 1st.
He's literally a black whole on both ends of the court, i've never seen anything like it from 1 playoffs to the next.
I can't remember the last time I saw a dude flip from borderline dominant to useless back and forth like this. It's weird as hell. And he only played what.. like 12 minutes last night? 0 points and 0 rebounds? I don't get it.
its the same shit different game. Play Boozer to start the game and the half and go down 10 early. Now Wizards going off to start the 3rd. I realize the Bulls wont win this series and have very little offensive talent. But when you continue to do the same thing game in and game out without success.... it just shows you are stubborn and unwilling to change.
Thibs is getting schooled this series in every sense of the word. Boozer is something like a -30 this series with playing half a game. But he starts every game and every 2nd half. Just pathetic coaching.
Great defense, awful offense, slightly above average team.
I know Boozer sucks, and shouldnt be starting. Yet he starts him every game and goes down double digits each half before replacing him.
Why not start Gibson and maybe get a lead? Gibson has been the best player on the Bulls the entire series.
Memphis up 12 at half.
Wow again Boozer gets abused! Before I could even hit send.
Bulls ball at least. Still in this despite themselves.
And then airballs a layup. Great decision bringing him back in Thibs haha.
And then airballs a layup. Great decision bringing him back in Thibs haha.
If management didn't trade Deng away for cash, Boozer wouldn't have to play now.
Quote:
3 offensive rebounds on one possession... haha
And then airballs a layup. Great decision bringing him back in Thibs haha.
If management didn't trade Deng away for cash, Boozer wouldn't have to play now.
Deng is not that good either. Wow, how do you not call that push on Nene. Guess all 3 referees want this series over too.
The top 4 seeds are really struggling out west.
What I would love to see, and it pains me to say this, but I think OKC needs to trade Westbrook. And as a Bulls fan, if it means trading Noah - I would be all for it. Jackson can fill in to start. They could trade Adams, Westbrook for Noah and Mirotic.
Gives them another scorer. Would become the most explosive backcourt immediately (of course pending Rose's health). Bulls have absolutely no guard play thats worth bring back (slide Butler to the 3 for defensive reasons).
The Bulls need changes. And they need people who could score. As much as I love Noah, they need people who can put the ball in the hoop.
Pathetic
I may change my vote to Brooks. This team seems always to be in a panic.
I know the grizz are a tough team but durant has been shit all series and westbrook is inconsistent and chucking also
Very disappointing so far
Im with you. They missed both calls but it evened out. And both failed to cash in
Omg westbrook. Another ot for the 4th straight game?
4th straight OT game?
Rim shot!
Hopefull okc pulls this out
Would love a big ot from durant right now
Here we go. Ballgame here if no fouls. Make or miss for game
Joey crawford is a jackass though. Berating people at the scorers table
Joey Crawford should be fired for what he did on the free throw line. Just a complete waste of a referee.
Why did Durant take that awful shot to begin with? You're down 1, you have 3 seconds, at least try to get close to the basket, maybe get a foul call
The referee who deems himself bigger than the game!
What a total doofus.
He is gonna take heat if they lose this series and deservedly so. The fresh face stage of his career is over. Now comes the expectations for a guy on his level. Hes the mvp. He has been to a final. r.I.p. the gravy phase
Hes a loss away from a long summer. But lets also not lose sight of the fact that his best ball is likely ahead of him. And if he is the player we think he is, he may even benefit in the long term from the oft unfair grindhouse that guys of his ilk get put through at this stage in their career. It has motivated and sprungboard many careers before to greater heights. See mj in the early 90s, shaq at the turn of the century. Lebron of late. its not stretching much to put durant at least in the same paragraph as those guys as pure talents, if not the same sentence. And theyve all walked the same path he is one loss from embarking on. Here is where public opinion shifts and pressure mounts.
That is just pathetic. OKC isn't smoke and mirrors. Their bench isn't great. Their head coach isn't great. They don't have a versatile offensive style. Their entire livelihood depends on Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook shooting jumpers and attacking the rim. Ibaka is a great 3rd piece for them and they have other valuable pieces including Jackson. But this team lives and dies with Durant and Westbrook.
Kevin Durant is showing that he is a mortal. Tony Allen's strength/quickness combo is bothering the hell out of Durant. It's not just Allen though, Durant's shot is just off. But part of the reason is because Allen is making him work.
And Russell Westbrook is one of the most confusingly gifted players I've ever seen. 30/10/13 playoff game including some clutch defense, yet he also was 10-31 from the field with 4 turnovers.
31 FGA, 13 Ast, 4 TOV
That's a ridiculous amount of possessions for the PG of the team. 10-31 is simply an unacceptable total for the PG of a team. Point guards who shoot and miss that much lead to stagnant offenses. Westbrook is an unbelievable player who is in the Top 10 mix and looks Top 5 at times. But he really needs to dial it down.
Huge games here for the Durant/Westbrook duo. Memphis is one tough team and they have been great, but I'm really interested in seeing how OKC reacts to this.
And Joey Crawford sucks. I can't blame him for Durant missing but it's just such a stupid thing for him to do in that spot. He is such a douche.
Rewind to late spring 2012 as the thunder were rolling through san Antonio..... they looked like a franchise that would be impossible to keep out of the finals for the forseeable future. Just loaded and on the come up. Even entered that finals vs miami as a betting line favorite.
Even post harden trade theyve remained the favorites out west. Last year at least the Westbrook injury was a valid excuse. This year to bow out in rd 1 would be a disaster. And given the matchup problems Memphis causes okc, we have to revisit the general consensus that okc goes to the finals last year if westbrook is healthy.
I had my reservations about this okc team early on after the loss of martin. But still picked them to make the finals by the time the playoffs rolled around. And if they get through this series they still might. This is just a rough matchup. But its stunning to see where this team is two years later at this very moment after the possibilities seemed endless during the 2012 wcf
But 3-9 from the FT line and they go to the Hack-a-Shaq on Jordan down 7 points
Jackson lucks out and Jordan is sent to the line anyway where he makes 1 of 2
1. Does Brooks get canned? I think this is a no brainer. I really dont think he is that good of a coach.
2. Does OKC look to trade Westbrook. OKC looked to be a better team without RW.
3. How the hell do they get rid of Perkins?
KD needs to make that anyway, it's a free throw, but I hope someone has a long talk with Crawford.
The team would then be strictly Durants and he would be taking the most shots and the offense would be run through him not the other way around...
KD is coming off of the best scoring season since prime MJ (although Kobe has an argument). He just had an epic regular season where he was the hands down MVP in a league that includes peak LeBron James.
He needs to play better. 28 PPG in this series for Durant, but it has come at a very inefficient clip. This is a guy who always threatens the 50/40/90 mark with his shooting, yet he is shooting at a 40/30/70 mark in this series!
I think one weakness for Durant is his strength, and it is a clear problem for him against Tony Allen who is not only stronger than Durant but quicker than him to. Durant is also just missing shots as his 71% FT shooting shows.
The 2014 regular season was the Kevin Durant show. But he is turning into Tony Allen's bitch at the worst time. Enormous finish to this series for Durant. He doesn't want to go out like Dirk did in his MVP season.
I dont know off the top of my head my Knicks offer(not saying its enough) would be
Tyson JR Hardaway shumpert and 1st 2018 for Westrbook Perkins and thabeet
There is no reason that he shouldnt be able to post up Allen with height and arm length he should be over to post up and shoot right over the top of him...
Its Why some consider Melo a more well rounded scorer and a better offensive game than Durant...Melo can post up, Shoot the 3, shoot the mid range, drive by his opponent and get to the line..
I agree i dont think it gets done and i dont think the Knicks get him i just think that would be their best offer...
1. Westbrook and Adams to Chicago for Noah, Mirotic, Dunleavy. This will all depend on Bulls getting rid of Boozer and OKC getting rid of Perkins.
Starting lineups:
OKC - Noah, Ibaka, Durant, Lamb, Jackson
Chi - Adams, Gibson, Butler, Westbrook, Rose.
Do it GarPax!!!!
But there is a lot I do not like about his game right now. And decision-making is a huge part of it.
you still wont get both...OKC loves Adams and he is still very young with a lot of room to grow...
Westbrook for Noah Mirotic and a couple 1sts may get it done...
so really it is noah and couple of 1sts for westbrook...Mirotic has no value to the thunder
so really it is noah and couple of 1sts for westbrook...Mirotic has no value to the thunder
I would have assumed OKC would trade Perkins too. If they traded both Westbrook/perkins.... they are only at like 43 million next year. They can afford Mirotic pretty easily I thought.
Mook,
I was told Wade/James couldnt work together. I know both are ball dominate, but they are also great players. Sometimes they can just work it out. And I do believe they are real close off the court.
also this series is all on durant. he is not passing the eye test of MVP. brutal.
But the difference with Bird was that his impact was spread out. If he didn't score, he'd go out and grab 12+ boards and 8+ assists.
Durant's impact is tied heavily towards his scoring. He's an all-time great scorer but when his scoring game is off he loses a ton of his value.
Bird could score 16 points and still be the best player on the floor
LeBron could score 16 points and still be the best player on the floor
Durant can't
We need to do something, but we've also been waiting for Mirotic, might as well see what that he's got unless we can package him to upgrade at a position other than Guard (assuming Rose comes back).
We need to do something, but we've also been waiting for Mirotic, might as well see what that he's got unless we can package him to upgrade at a position other than Guard (assuming Rose comes back).
I wouldn't mind an upgrade at SG. Butler will be fine as a SF. bulls just needssomeone who can score, period.
Rose/Westbrook would have its awesome moments, but as a whole I'd expect it to fail miserably.
All these numbers still wouldnt lead me to say theyre better without him. But it has never been an ideal fit
The bulls have to do something big I think. And big is not Lance Stephenson. Big offseason for the Bulls. The reason of trading Noah is because hsi value will never be higher.
Perhaps it just seems this way and actually isnt, but it seems like a ton of big leads are erased in the 2nd half of NBA playoff games. Not just this year, either. The trailing team doesn't always win, but it seems like teams down 15-20 make a run and get either tied or within a bucket quite often
Jesus Christ these teams are fucking dumb.
Jesus Christ these teams are fucking dumb.
Hhaha... just roll it on the ground, just not in the backcourt.
Thats what inexperience brings ya.
Fixed it for you.
I feel bad for JJ because he's actually a special offensive player. He's just surrounded by some absolutely horrible teammates who can't convert on his getting double and triple teamed.
Just looking at the box scores... Paul Pierce was -31 in just 24 minutes. Yikes.
I mean wow. We knew he would take heat for this but really already? And in his hometown small market paper too?
Apparently the headline guy had to apologize though because of backlash locally
Through 5 games of tracking data, memphis has like 510 more passes than okc in this series. Thats over 100 a game. Last game it was 150. thats insane
They shouldnt make any sweeping changes outside of the coach. This is still an incredibly young group even though its easy to forget it because they arrived on the contender scene ahead of schedule
And if they somehow do win this round id expect to see them in the finals. This is just a rough matchup
Fuck the whole team for that backstreet boys esque photo shoot which was hilarious
Im enjoying the hell out of this series
But when you are potentially top 10 all time great from a skill standpoint, and reach a certain age with bare fingers, people will latch on to small samples or character traits and extrapolate a larger narrative from them to explain the lack of hardware. So all offseason kevin durant is going to get put through the media spin cycle and get crushed. The fresh face stage of his career is over. R.I.p. to those times
The narrative will flip and things once seen as positive character traits will now be looked at in a different light. His humbleness will be seen as soft, and a bunch of other nonsense to explain why he doesnt have it in him and other first take level banter
Every great who wasnt fortunate enough to be born into an awesome situation early on goes through this at some point. And its not unhealthy. Weve seen it elevate already great talents to another level. This spin cycle helped elevate lebron post 2011. He was already the best player in the league but was humbled/motivated by it all and found another gear. and hes far from the only one, just the most recent
Be awesome tv tonight.
I don't really have strong feelings about them one way or the other, probably because I'm not a Knicks fan like most of you guys.
But I want to see them recover from this pathetic collapse. I don't enjoy seeing them embarrassing themselves like this.
I don't even think Hawks fans do...
How would you guys rank the Grizzles players in terms of value to that team? I think I'd put Gasol at #1. But Conley is one of my favorite players in the league, Allen is the best perimeter defender in the league, and Z-Bo is their money scorer in a big spot. Very well balanced team at the top.
Long game though.
And i share the same feelings about the Pacers that Mook does....Biggest Fugazi team i have ever seen....they act like their this big bad tough defensive team and all they do is flop all over the place and David West literally whines about every single call against him...i cant stand the Pacers...
If its Pacers vs Miami in the ECF i am rooting for Miami..
If he did the precedent has been set. If you dont suspend him you are doing a disservice to the 97 knicks and 07 suns. I dont like it either but as long as its a rule you have to apply it
Two game 7 s locked in and as many as 6 possible
I hope Conley is 100% good to go for Game 7. I said Gasol was my pick for Grizz team MVP just a couple of posts ago, but Conley is right up there. Their perimeter play without Conley simply isn't good enough for a WC playoff team. He came back and played in this one but he was limping.
It may be weak sauce but you have to drop the hammer. Do it for amare. Do it for patrick ewing and the rest of those 97 knicks. Most of all do it because I hate them
KD responded big time last night.
The Knicks and Suns situations were a joke and I hope the NBA doesn't continue down that path.
To me, the rule should be more about involvement in the scuffle, even just breaking it up. Who cares if a guy takes 2 steps on the floor if he doesn't get involved?
My guess is that he does not get suspended.
Move the benches back and make it a cut and dry rule about stepping on the court. Standing up basically puts you on the court anyway.
It costs the Knicks and Suns a chance at a championship both teams were title contenders and they suspended them anyway...
it has to be done...
whats the difference?
After reading the article, I realize that it happened in the same Series Amare was suspended in for the same offense. Unbelievable
Link - ( New Window )
James Harden, this is you buddy. Step up and save the season. Rough series for the beard but he carried the team down the stretch in Game 5. Hopefully that was the confidence boost he needed.
do i root for them? no...
but do they bother me like some on here??? hell no.
they are a flawed team with no true PG and thus struggle offensively at times.
but they have young talent that is enjoyable to watch evolve.
anger over hibbert and verticality is just whining... all in all the pacers have done nothing but give you 2 great series against miami which were must see TV... and now offer soome drama in their inability to beat the hawks and the swift fall from what was league best status.
I hope they win, becuase it makes the playoffs better.
the pacers have done nothing to become grudge worthy
do i root for them? no...
but do they bother me like some on here??? hell no.
they are a flawed team with no true PG and thus struggle offensively at times.
but they have young talent that is enjoyable to watch evolve.
anger over hibbert and verticality is just whining... all in all the pacers have done nothing but give you 2 great series against miami which were must see TV... and now offer soome drama in their inability to beat the hawks and the swift fall from what was league best status.
I hope they win, becuase it makes the playoffs better.
the pacers have done nothing to become grudge worthy
Me personnaly i cant stand their fake tough guy act and how they criticize teams for flopping when their 7'2 center is on the ground every 2 seconds...
PLus i cant stand the different rules Hibbert gets to play by with the verticality thing...its BS he always puts his hands over the offensive player which is a foul every time and yet its not called..
Plus i hate Reggie MIller i respect him but i hate him for all the shit in the 90's...i will always hate the pacers...
George is just a a weirdo, Stephenson is impossible to root for, their coach is an asshole, David West is an asshole, they pounded their chests all year about how great they were when they didnt win a fucking thing in their lives, not one of them. Fuck them
Watching David West play is like watching a crying baby when he doesnt get his way....
George has evolved into a top 10 player on both sides EVEN with his fall in the 2nd half of the year.
West whines a lot but every team has guys like that.
"fake tough guys". how are they fake tough guys? statistically til the end of this year they were fanstastic defensively for 3 yrs... and they stood in miami's face twice... being tough.
so again... its fine if you dont like them, but its all strange to me.
the league is full of whiners and flopprs on every team... of guys that get too many calls, ect.
its like there is one legit 7 foot defensive player and they dont call the game soft and now Hibbert "gets every call"- last year.
Plenty of players bitch about calls, including the King himself, even moreso from his sidekick. West definitely bitches a lot, and I get why that bothers people, but there are tons of examples across the league.
Plenty of players bitch about calls, including the King himself, even moreso from his sidekick. West definitely bitches a lot, and I get why that bothers people, but there are tons of examples across the league.
Every time I see Indiana play... whenever west, George, Stephenson, king others make a nice play they act like they hit the game winning shot I'm game 7 of the finals. They are arrogant, babies, and childish rolled up into 1. If they lose this series, I would seriously laugh my ass off. But if they win, I think they would do just fine against washington believe it or not.
http://grantland.com/features/nba-playoffs-first-round-dallas-mavericks-san-antonio-spurs-houston-rockets-portland-trail-blazers-toronto-raptors/
I think game 7 in toronto would be an awesome scene and these 2 teams are starting to really hate eachother, so hopefully it goes 7.
I see Nets actually getting better next year as Lopez returns. its a total wild card but if he is there this series isnt close.
I just can't stand watching that team. They shut down interesting plays on the back of a giant with fouling privileges. Their offense is disjointed at best. Their D is good and it would be even without the verticality BS. I just don't like them.
http://grantland.com/features/nba-playoffs-first-round-dallas-mavericks-san-antonio-spurs-houston-rockets-portland-trail-blazers-toronto-raptors/
Lowe has great insights but (and this is a very minor nitpick) his word choices are ridiculous. If I see him use the word "snug" one more time to describe a pick and roll I'll vomit. But yeah, he's a damn good analyst.
2) have size
3) contest shots
makes the hibbert issue exaggerated by all.
Would they bother addressing it if there is no suspension just because it's a huge media story right now?
The randolph thing and now conleys hammy kills that game 7
But an OKC loss in Game 7 against the Grizzlies would now make this series a historic embarrassment instead of just a hard-fought series loss.
But 7 games!
I think its a mistake to measure the caliber of play by how long series go. There's a lot of bad basketball being played this postseason.
Quote:
ever seen a 7 game series like this Nets one is going to be that was just flat out boring and for the most part poorly played? Besides the last 3 minutes of game 5 the series has been a complete snoozefest
But 7 games!
I think its a mistake to measure the caliber of play by how long series go. There's a lot of bad basketball being played this postseason.
Not really. This has been one of the best 1st round games in a long time. Every series in the west is must watched. The east series have been ehhhh, but at least an 8 seed has done things to make the 1 seed look bad. Charlotte played a few good games as well, just came up short.
The west semi's and finals will be insane.
When you have 0 inside game, its tough to rack up fouls. Mavs are a jump shooting team. Only Ellis has the ability to get to the basket and draw fouls.
Mavs have gotten about 6 calls in a row now.
This year is an aberration. But it was as predictable as the sun rising that we would hear this talk. God forbid the lakers win the lotto too.
Aldridge is making some incredible contested shots in this series. On his way to another big night. Another fun game between these two. I want 7
One point game
youch
I almost feel for dwight. He was amazing in that 4th quarter and had a very good series, but all anyone will remember is a first round ouster. This was 6 games of incredible fun.
but when Parsons loses him it might be time to get a little grabby
well, not much you can do then, except play better defense
And even though this series failed to deliver one, it was probably my favorite one to watch.
No one has elevated their national rep and profile over the past two weeks any more than lillard and Aldridge. Amazing series for both. Everyone already knew how good they were but when you stamp it with a playoff series like they had in victory, you look at them a bit differently now. Lillard is starting to separate himself perception wise from the crowd of amazing young pg talent. And aldridge has cemented himself as very arguably a top 5-7 player. Id have had him 4th in the mvp voting even before his awesome series
Step 2: Watch as team naturally disintegrates and coach is fired midseason with Felton as starting PG
Step 3: Use ensuing lottery pick on Damian Lillard
Step 4: Trade Raymond Felton to the Knicks
Seriously though, that the was best end of game I've seen in quite some time. I feel for Dwight Howard and Jeremy Lin. Howard was mostly excellent down the stretch (minus 2 HUGE missed FTs) and Lin made a big shot despite a horrible shooting game (shot was disallowed).
I kind of get the feeling indiana is going to win and probably play their best game of the series. Theyve found something in this matching by finally going small when they were down 30 in game 5. But I dont say that with any confidence because indiana doesn't deserve it. Also atlanta could have another one of those nights where they just go nuts from downtown. They have 5 shooters on the floor at almost all times, theyve been jacking up a ton of them in this series and if they get hot theyve shown they can blow indy out on that floor let alone beat them
Memphis winning in their current condition would stun anyone. To a lesser degree the same could be said of dallas but theyve been in every game late in this series and blew a double digit 4th quarter lead in one of them, otherwise dallas may have been playing to close out sa tonight. Dirk is getting his legs under him in these last ccouple games, blair is back and is giving sa trouble. I want so badly to see dirk go off sunday and win a road game 7 at san Antonio for the 2nd time in his career
clips-warriors and raptors-nets kind of have a tossup feeling to them. I would lean more heavily with the clips if paul wasnt banged up
It was not a punch and it glanced his chin after Adams had nudged him
This is so transparent in terms of overreacting and giving Durant an edge
Lillard has already built up a well earned clutch reputation, the kid is money with the game on the line. That shot was just crushing.
54 wins for the Rockets but a 1st round exit. So the season should technically be considered a failure. The team had Championship expectations with Dwight/Harden. But the season also wasn't a flat out disaster, there were a lot of good signs this year for the Rockets. 54 wins in Year 1 of the Dwight/Harden duo isn't bad. The Rockets probably have a 3 year window here with those 2 so hopefully they advance further the next couple of years.
The Rockets need better PG play. Lin is ideally a 6th man type scorer off the bench and Beverly doesn't have enough offense to play legit starter's minutes. The Rockets really need an upgrade at PG and I hope they find a way to get it. Until they do they won't advance much further than they did this year.
(Rounded off) 26 pts 7 ast 6 rebs a night on a true shooting % of 67%. Walk off series winner which tied an nba record for 3s made in a 6 game series. This was crazy impressive. Over the last decade thats probably on the mount rushmore of playoff series debuts
What a garbage game. And im not expecting much from memphis. I almost want them to start the clips-warriors game now. Game 7s seem to disappoint more often than not
Hes got like 4 turnovers on it already
Jesus
Somehow scapegoated and benched by the coach AS a Knick.
After hearing he was suspended for a punch, I was waiting to see an actual punch. He never even punched him, how did they suspend him in a game 7 for that? Jeez
Please let the clips-warriors game be halfway decent.
He had his shooting struggles to be sure, but for the series he just missed averaging a triple double with 26-10-8
Another 4 point play in this postseason. Thats like 15 now I think
Lol curry at the buzzer. This dude is insane. wont count though
What a fucking joke.
TNT post-game is infinitely better with Shaq "taking the night off".
I don't know that Jackson is a great coach but I definitely believe the Warriors would replace him with a worse one.
The Raps have non-stop complained to the referees all series. I've never seen any collection of players complain more than this Raptors team over a playoff series. It's absurd. Vasquez is going to get T'd up again if he doesn't chill out.
I agree. I just am rooting for entertaining series at this point.
Whoever goes onto next round, if they play the way they have this series, they're going to get swept
They will lose to the Heat. But I'd be surprised if they didn't get a game against Miami.
Where's Mook to tell us the refs are being unfair in favor of Toronto?
Easy calls.
Frustration getting to the Raptors now. No idea how this team was a 3 seed this year, they play out of control, turn the ball over at a crazy rate, and I just don't see a ton of talent. I see some athletic players but thats it. Didnt get to see them much at all during the year but man does the East blow.
Nets have played under control, made the extra pass, and just played a smart game. Toronto wants to play 1 on 1, always playing a step fast, dribbling balls off of their foot, and now losing their cool
Kidd got fouled after he got 9 and 1s in 1 quarter alone and got fined. These teams are embarrassing themselves with their actions.
Crazy.
And KG deserved the T. Typical KG bullshit. Put his arms in the air like he's not doing anything wrong while chestbumping a smaller player out of the way. He does it all the time.
Bring on Lebron!
He had plenty of time to get rid of the ball and let one of his teammates take the shot. Don't force what isn't there
Steal game 1 in Miami lets get he 3 balls going
Great game Thornton
They need to be able to both isolate Johnson without castrating deron
Youre not going to beat miami playing small ball like the nets do. Thats their game. No team in this era or arguably any other is beating this team with a natural 4 at the 5 and a natural 3 at the 4. Anyone without effective size basically negates the heats single biggest weakness. They cant capitalize on miami's vulnerabilty to getting eviscerated on the glass, because they themselves are well below average there
I think miami rolls through this in anti climatic fashion. im not saying consistent blowouts or anything but I expect the heat to win without much sweat.
Sa vs por
Okc vs lac
Miami vs bkn
Ind vs was
Indiana/Washington is a tossup for me. Those are two good defensive teams and I could see either of them really struggle in a halfcourt game.
By the way mavs cur a 29 pt lead to 14 early 3rd
I'm gonna be a little more forgiving. I say Heat in 6.
1. Garnett knocked the ball loose from Lowry, which caused Patterson to come in and try and pick it up and which drew Pierce into the lane.
2. Terrence Ross was standing in the wrong place, he should have rotated to the corner to ensure the spacing was adequate/get an open shot.
Lowry was the heart and soul of this team since the raptors dealt rudy gay. Very tough loss as a raptors fan, but the nets were the better/more experienced team and if valanciunas and ross continue to develop and the raps can keep lowry, i like the base of the team moving forward.
plays balls out, plays d... hits open 3s.
the type of guy you love on your team and hate as an opponent.
actually the ideal triangle PG in my view.
Theyve led this one pretty much all night. Trying to close in the 4th.
Great first quarter for the clips. This is going to be an awesome series.
Chris Paul with 17 first quarter points going 5-5 from 3
Matchup - ( New Window )
Also I know it's tough to rip a coach who has gotten his team to the playoffs as a top seed every year and 1 finals appearance. But I would really like to see brooks canned
His lineups are so shitty at times and his loyalty to certain people at times are so frustrating
Theyre gonna score north of 70 in the half at this rate. Durant and westbrook are 10 for 15 but theyre still getting beatdown
This game is cooked
9 plus minutes left in the 3rd
And now everything is opening up for the clips. Deandre jordan catching lobs in the paint after the clips were largely perimeter oriented in that first half
The playoffs have been fantastic thus far.
other keys
Mirza + thornton 3 pts shooting
KG being involved in the offense.
Livingston staying out of foul trouble defensively.
Lets go Nets!
Paul George is a loser.
Can't wait for this OKC-LAC game, a must win for OKC. I'm excited to see what KD does post-MVP acceptance.
Hibbert was awesome tonight and the big mental midget was cheesing after every bucket like even he couldnt believe it. If this springboards him the whole dynamic with that team changes
Still like wiz in 6
Cant wait to see how okc responds tonight. Kevin durant opens 2 for 2.
Durant came to play. I hope this game stays close, I want to see 60!!!
And when people say they cant watch the NBA, well they need to watch this. Basketball at its finest.
Man, I love KD.
Last 5 games
28.4 ppg 9.6 apg 8.6 rpg 49.0% fg 40% threes. (A little high on the turnover front at 5, but come on)
Last 3 games
29.0 ppg 10.0 apg 9.3 rpg 64% fg 55% 3Pfg
I know a big reason is because its the Nets, but this is a guy who many in the media said was better than Carmelo and some said the Nets were better off making the deal with Utah than Denver. How does he not get just destroyed in the media after playing like that?
Guy is a fuckin loser.
Sucks, because I don't think he has any trade value with that contract, leading the Nets to just sit on him for a few more years. But I hope he enjoys his money now, because he'll never be worth a max contract again.
I know Joe Johnson has got the monster contract, but at least he's bringing it.
I know a big reason is because its the Nets, but this is a guy who many in the media said was better than Carmelo and some said the Nets were better off making the deal with Utah than Denver. How does he not get just destroyed in the media after playing like that?
Guy is a fuckin loser.
How does Deron not get destroyed in the media? Easy...he doesn't play for the Knicks. The National media looks for reasons to destroy the Knicks...and when they cant find one then they completely make shit up. But everyone is full of excuses for the Nets.
Quote:
some of the Nets-Heat game tonight and never saw Deron Williams do anything. After the game I checked the box score, sure enough 0 for 9 and 0 points.
I know a big reason is because its the Nets, but this is a guy who many in the media said was better than Carmelo and some said the Nets were better off making the deal with Utah than Denver. How does he not get just destroyed in the media after playing like that?
Guy is a fuckin loser.
How does Deron not get destroyed in the media? Easy...he doesn't play for the Knicks. The National media looks for reasons to destroy the Knicks...and when they cant find one then they completely make shit up. But everyone is full of excuses for the Nets.
Um, wrong. He doesn't get destroyed because nobody cares about the Nets. It's almost like they aren't even in the playoffs right now, I never hear a peep about them and they are in the 2nd round!
PS-plenty of people on bbi said that Deron was better than Melo, plenty.
Theres no way you can trust him anymore. Miami will be dumb to give him some legacy extension and lebron would be just as shortsighted to sign up for more of the same, its only gonna get worse. He hasnt had the player he signed up to play with since their first year together.
Conversation on sworn should be focused on his gutless play and where the fuck his basketball iq went after a fantastic run of years. Is it all injuries? Did he lose the passion? Was it sloane's system? He sucks right now
How that relates to a player or team that couldn't qualify for ge eastern conference playoffs, I have no idea..... But somehow you guys manage to do it.
I think its pretty well established at this point that he is no longer an elite pg. Once was, that ship has sailed and is never coming back to dock. Both by his own decline and the rise of a ton of young talent at the position. Last night was inexcusable. But I dont know who was expecting a monster playoff run from him this year
They still do too much ISO
I think he misses Lopez more then anyone
Im gonna say it again. John wall is having a brutal playoffs. The wiz have exceeded expectations and he is the face of the team, so few have taken notice of the fact that he has been pretty awful. Instead I have to hear doris burke telling me he hasnt blinked this postseason, credit by association. He was better tonight than in game 2, but thats not saying a ton. 7 turnovers, wiz offense looking like a trainwreck even when they win in these playoffs. He came into tonight shooting 32% this postseason. It has been horrifying watching him offensively in these playoffs
Decision making, shot selection are works in progress no doubt. But this guy has never been granted the young, fresh face stage of his career where everyone just celebrates him as the incredible talent he is without the burden of the over the top scrutiny. Hell even lebron had a grace period early. People have been coming at russ since hes 20/21 years old.
Some of it stems from protecting durant. Everyone likes him, hes humble, he cried at his presser which officially makes him the greatest living human. When things go awry westbrook provides a nice lightning rod because no one wants to come down on saint kevin (one headline aside which was later apologized for). The narrative is often almost acting like durant is burdened by playing with a top young talent like him. Which is nuts. Lets not forget the loss in 5 vs memphis last year when he was hurt.
None of that is at all meant to denigrate kd, but rw gets a ridiculously unfair shake. How many guys are capable of playing on the level he has of late?
Coincidence we won game 6 and 7 against Toronto with him benched? Nobody has to guard him and he sux at protecting the paint
Nets kept it close most of game 2 and then Miami exploded in the 4th. Let's see if they can hang in this one.
Really liking this lineup.
Doesn't change the fact that he isn't a Top 10 point guard even when he's healthy.
Deron is solid tonight and controlling the game
Good defense too
It's having a big impact and will likely still determine who wins this game.
Nets are playing well right now without him. Mainly thanks to some good 3 and D from Mirza. But it's not sustainable.
I love that it got a bit physical
Looks like spo is going big 3 for one last push here to try to cut it to 10
Nets game 1 gave up and showed softness from the coach
Great win. Hopefully build some momentum for game 4.
Darren collison was a beast down the stretch. Huge lift today
what the fuck was that?
On the otherhand, Tim Duncan is that dude. Tony Parker has become the MVP of the Spurs offense in recent years, but Duncan remains the overall MVP of the team. At 37.
Tim Duncan is the Best Forward in NBA History. Bird had a great run and LeBron will eventually take this title but as of now it belongs to Duncan.
r.e. KG i hope he retires as well. i enjoy watching him teh days he plays solid- which was like game 7 raptors and game 3 heat. but many games he is just absent offesively and its tough to watch.
what a great player and pioneer for the post moses generation of no college guys
Obviously a shell of his former self, but he still makes contributions esp. on the glass.
r.e. KG i hope he retires as well. i enjoy watching him teh days he plays solid- which was like game 7 raptors and game 3 heat. but many games he is just absent offesively and its tough to watch.
what a great player and pioneer for the post moses generation of no college guys
TD gets that rebound or makes that hook late in game 7 and he's top 5 of all time, no questions asked.
They look like the best team this year. Okc remains an awful matchup though because they are super athletic and san antonio really cant match that. If they somehow get through that matchup or avoid it all together, this is probably their year. Really hope im wrong
The fact that both Leonard and Ginobili both missed 1 of 2 free throws was the reason why the lost. Remember they were up 4 with the ball with 30 some seconds left. If they make 3 out of the 4 it would have made a 3 possession game and Miami would not have had enough time.
Make your free throws boys.
Allen jumps, comes down, doesn't make contact. Williams jumps into Allen, creating the contact, and it's a foul on Allen?
Allen jumps, comes down, doesn't make contact. Williams jumps into Allen, creating the contact, and it's a foul on Allen?
Funny, I was just about to post this. An offensive player initiates contact and draws a foul? I wish the rule would be changed.
We r trashing spike lee who is apparently a heat fan now.......
Once again, if Dwill can just be okay, they have a good shot.
If he fouls him you have to call it. Wasn't a ton of contact but he did foul him. Anderson fouled him and almost simultaneously realized it was a mistake and tried to pull off
Great atmosphere. Great game
Need a stop
And need d will
Atmosphere is great
Fck let's go!!!!!!
They just aren't coming up with any stops at this point.
Johnson more worried about getting James 6th. He should know they arent fouling him out unless its basically blood.
It's his 6th
That ain't joe
1. A 18 foot, off balance pull up jumper by KG early in the shot clock.
2. A fade away by JJ over lebron from about 15-16 feet.
3. Off balance, running 17 footer by JJ trying to to foul out James.
Game tied or one possession game, you have to get better shots than that.
I can't wait to watch the Spurs crush this team.
The nets went ISO and forced it and lost the game
I am not convinced we won't see game 6 back I'm Brooklyn
Gotta play desperate in Game 5 and try to force a Game 6, then win to force a seventh game.
Ultimately won't matter. No chance Miami would lose a Game 7 at home. Only a slim chance of Miami losing a series-clinching Game 5 at home.
When they went down 2-0, that was the hole that put themselves in. Nearly dug out of it, but didn't happen. Disappointed, but not upset.
It's not a bad performance at all
I fully think we can see game 6
The nets are not intimidated by the het
Lebron just had a huge and efficient game while nobody on he nets was dominant or hot
All this, too, without their best player and a PG who simply is not an impactful player anymore.
Would be nice to see the series at least go 6 so Indiana is rested for the ECF.
I can't blame them for going for it, almost had no choice, but this is their best chance this year. Who knows if either Garnett or Pierce will even be back next year
thought I was going to like you
@OBJ_3 ain't allowed to be heat fan in NY man
don't forget your a giant now, lots of nets fans are giants fans. Don't piss us off
no more tweets like this while you're on the giants. Shit stops now
love you as a player for my Giants, Rolle. But your attraction to Miami is distasteful.
Hard to tell, let's worry about that next year
Future is mortgaged sure, but there are 8 teams left so most peoples futures are worse off then the nets regardless.
As I said game 6 is possible
The game tonight was an awesome experience it just sucks they lost
They did mortgage the future, but sometimes you have to roll the dice.
Against the heat he would be assize help
Look at the points in the paint where Lopez has a major impact
No pierce kg ak or Livingston. No Anderson
And jj playing with plantar fasciitis
Wallace and Reggie Evans getting time
Neither relevant to an NBA roster
Please
Dwill is a much bigger problem for the Nets. He's getting paid $20 million/year. It's astounding. Tony Parker, playing lights out right now, gets 12.
If miami is going to somehow threepeat through the elevated competition that awaits, lebron is going to need to be in god mode, and it still may not be enough. They have the best player, they do not have the best team
But nobody stepped up for thre nets
Everyone was "solid"
Nobody spectacular
You need outperformed to win when lebron drops an efficient 49
I don't fear this heat team
But I think the nets blew it tonight
Will take a 12 plus 3 ball game in Miami to win game 5
playoffs and regular season his biggest career scoring nights overwhelmingly come on the road
wonder if he gets fined for the flop when JJ drove. reggie evans style
1. Jordan -- 38
2. West -- 16
3. Kobe -- 13
4. LeBron -- 12
5. Shaq -- 12
6. Hakeem -- 11
7. Iverson -- 10
Jordan is in his own world as a volume scorer in the playoffs, but LeBron is now building up a playoff scoring resume about as good as any non-Jordan player ever. As of today he has averaged 28.2 PPG on strong efficiency over 146 career playoff games. He has also had a few historic scoring outbursts including his Legendary Game 6 in Boston and his 4th quarter rampage game against Detroit.
LeBron is one of the best ever but his scoring ability may actually be underrated historically. He isn't Jordan but he's arguably the 2nd most explosive playoff scorer ever, something he doesn't get much credit for.
he forced maybe 3-4 shots all night.
Other than that he was scoring in teh flow or in the final seconds of the shot clock...he would move the ball around well and when he was in the post if they doubled he found the open guy...
"Magic Johnson, what has he done? He has AIDS... he should be ashamed... he's not a good role model"
Just classless comments from Sterling. He gets caught making racist remarks about Magic, yet somehow in his twisted head he thinks this is Magic's fault.
It's amazing how he sets up an interview to try and repair his image yet comes out of it looking worse. Sterling just needs to shut up and go away.
"Magic Johnson, what has he done? He has AIDS... he should be ashamed... he's not a good role model"
Just classless comments from Sterling. He gets caught making racist remarks about Magic, yet somehow in his twisted head he thinks this is Magic's fault.
It's amazing how he sets up an interview to try and repair his image yet comes out of it looking worse. Sterling just needs to shut up and go away.
I think they both need to go away. I found Magic's comment about D'Antoni despicable. Even though he is not an NBA, he is part owner of other major sports teams, and to belittle someone like that (even if its true or not) is just poor taste.
But to each their own, Magic probably just did something that he probably would have been keeping to himself. Sterling is just a whole level of scum in which many dont travel.
Jim Rome is eviscerating him with it.
crazy thing is that some of the stuff this guy says, coupled with his cartoonish delivery, evokes laughter as much as it does anger. If you threw a laugh track at the end of almost anything he said, it wouldnt seem out of place
as someone who will root for miami, I have no clue who I want to win this series. On the one hand indy matches up very well with their size and has proven to give miami issues. Hibbert always plays way over his head against them, killed them last year in the playoffs. And indy certainly has the higher ceiling compared to the wiz at this time. We saw them win 33 of 40 at one point, and while it seems like ages ago it is not out of the realm for them to recapture that for a 6 to 7 game span
but on the other hand watching how washingtons bigs have been playing of late, im not sure that isnt an even tougher matchup. I could see gortat and nene just demolishing them up front, and if their perimeter players knock down shots that could get interesting
this is gonna be indys 4th loss at home in the playoffs. And these arent just losses, theyve caught some beatdowns.
blake griffin turned an ankle though pretty good. Staying in the game though
Lot of time left, but Durant has to get his head out of his ass and soon.
The guy isnt good enough to be on a roster, yet alone playing in crunch time. They need offense, and he keeps doing absolutely nothing, and doesnt even go for a missed rebound. And here we go, down 7 with 49 seconds and he is STILL in the game.
HAHAHAHA!!!!!! They knew they blew the call on the foul so they didnt overturn that.
Crooked fucking officials. You can't look at that review and not overturn it
I think Paul definitely fouled him though.
lol, man they fucked that game up beyond all recognition
Can't wait to hear the NBA defend that one. It's going to cost the Clippers the game
That review was so obvious
Paul with an absolute brutal last minute that really cost his team.
and then ignore it completely. they don't look crooked, just cartoonishly incompetent. there's no makeup calls when you go over and review it. lol
That review was so obvious
Not only did they fuck the review up, but they fucked up the initial call as well. Its why replay sucks. They definitely gave OKC the ball because they missed the foul. Call the foul in the first place.
Disgusting. Appaling. Pft. Fuck the NBA
clips will talk a lot about the refs tonight but they participated in their own demise. Biggest play of the game was the westbrook steal. He was awesome tonight. Has been awesome all playoffs. At minimum durants equal in overall impact
lol.
Doc Rivers is absolutely right. They got robbed completely. NBA trying to hide behind saying they didnt have the replay that showed it off of Jackson. That's such a load of shit.
Get rid of replay, Rivers is absolutely right. Don't use it if you arent going to overturn that
Get rid of replay. Please
they're really covering for this
I really want to see another replay of Westbrooks steal of Paul to set all this up, because it looked pretty clear to me that westbrook fouled Paul
how about get a stop and not foul a three point shooter. How about not end the game in utter collapse over the final 4 minutes. The clips got the result they deserved tonight
the Clippers only got robbed of OT, it's just that sequence of calls is hilariously bad. no earthly idea how you can go to review and then call that OKC ball
Its close on whether or not it applies here. Depends on whether you think the ball also hit jacksons right hand or not too. But even that is inconclusive
they might have even gotten it right by the book
and that player gets hit in the hand, that's normally called a foul. it looked like it was touched again either way
Barnes hitting Jackson's wrist/hand, which (subjectively) I think was in contact with the ball, is what caused the ball to go out of bounds, Thunder ball.
to me that explanation is consistent with that interpretation if theyre saying they didnt have it clearly going off of jacksons right hand. If it only hit his left hand its technically not off jackson due to barnes hand being the driving force
I tend to think it did hit his right hand... but if theyre going with inconclusive, its not that indefensible. And we still shouldnt forget the right team retained possession. Even if we cant be sure about the means
We are now in the final days of getting multiple games everynight. By weeks end im gonna miss it. One game a night tops, sometimes none, starts next week. Its been an awesome playoffs, and as much as I look forward to the heavyweight battles ahead, im gonna miss this stage. Similar to how the ncaa tourney has an appeal early on that cant be duplicated as the field shrinks, there is something about the volume of availability stage that is awesome.
The story is not that call. Its that a top 5 NBA player had 2 turnovers and fouled a 3 point shooter up 2 all with under 20 seconds left in the game. The focus needs to be on him.
This is the best NBA playoffs, IMO, in recent memory. So many good series already and it's the 2nd round. I can't wait to see what is coming up.
really hope portland can stun everyone and take one tonight to inject some life into that series. Just cant see it though
Just to give him a shot to get hot for 5 minutes
He won a game against Toronto
U can't get stuck in the corner against the heat
It's killed all series along with going with Anderson too much
Continue to limit the role players and you have a great shot
I'm rooting for the Heat but thats BS
A joke
All game
Total joke
It's just so obvious I'm at a loss
Fckkkkkkkkkk
NBA hasn't had its officiating in order in decades. Better chance of pigs flying than the NBA suddenly becoming well officiated
Thats a clear foul on Lebron.
This game is a total fcking joke
Great effort nets
Sweet
All these huge wins for them some in such flukish ways. It continues to cheapen Lebron's legacy as these "wins" pile up.
Disappointing Year 1 for the Nets. With D-Will looking closer to average than great, the Nets could be in trouble over these next couple of years.
Yes the nets offense was stale down the stretch
But you can't let a team play by different rules on offense and defense
Fckkkkkkkkkkkkk
Among others, and certainly more to come against Indiana and (probably) SA again.
If you don't think that was a fluke win we just witnessed, I don't know what game you were watching.
Pierce should have been taking two foul shots at the end there to tie the game.
It was not earned it was given
On offense and defense
It's pathetic
It's obvious
And it's awful
He killed you in this series. Take a number.
Joe johnson didnt deserve a loss tonight though. Heat were on fire from deep in that 2nd half after going 1 for 16 at half. Lebron closed strong after a slow start, the nets were ultra reliant on jj in that 2nd half. Brooklyn has nothing to be ashamed of, it was a hard fought 5
Joe Johnson scores 34 points and goes to the line ONCE. LeBron scores 29, goes to the line SEVENTEEN TIMES.
Riiiiiiiight...
Everything youve saie st3ms from not one iota of a reasonable basketball convo, and solely from a place of frustration and a hatred of the player
Pierce should have been at the line. And we are all robbed of a compelling game 6 at Barclays.
Lebron has a horseshoe up his ass, period. No one can deny how great he is - like in the Finals game 7 or in game 4 of this series - and certainly he makes some of his own luck, but it's salient how reliable the Heat are on players like a 38 y/o Ray Allen and on getting away with slapping forearms with 5 seconds left. Even with that, it's probably not going to be enough this year against SA, LAC, or maybe Indiana if they can dominate the glass.
You, on the other hand, worship him to a bizarre degree. You're a Knicks fan rooting for the Heat. That's like a Giants fan rooting for the Montana/Rice Niners because of how amazing those 2 players were. It's weird.
I am indeed frustrated after that loss, though. You nailed me.
if officials really wanted miami to win this game, they did a terrible job. Because thats fairly easy to accomplish without it getting to 30 seconds left with miami down and a ray allen three in the air
But lets focus on some calls You disagreeed with late and form a tired conspiracy. While neglecting to realize a 5 game series is squarely against the leagues best interest and forfeits millions in gate and tv revenue. You conspiracy guys need to keep your arguments straight, because when we see game 7s in the nba we have to hear how the nba is pushing for them. Now they want 5 gamers. As if miami doesnt win anyway.
you sound like a moron. And I hesitate to say it because I like you otherwise, but its not uncalled for
What do you mean "names I recognize"? Believe it or not, Joe, other people watch a lot of NBA. I don't have time for 82, but the way you're portraying my position as "drrrr I know Chris Bosh and Ray Allen, they gud players" is baseless and cheap. Allen is patently still an impactful player. He drained the late 3 and initiated the steal on JJ on the last shot. Bosh crushed the Nets in game 4. Wade dropped 28 tonight while James struggled a little (relative to his normal self) at times. Miami is a far cry from his situation in Cleveland where he was surrounded by dogs. He gets major help (which is not to downplay how sensational a player he is).
Would you not be frustrated if Melo saw no call after getting his forearm slapped and losing the ball in the final seconds of an elimination game? The ref was standing right there. It's kinda bullshit. No conspiracy...certainly astounding incompetence.
It was pointless to bring up James' legacy. A rather insipid, and certainly wholly incomplete, debate at this point. Indeed heat of the moment frustration. Rescinded. (Although I'd bet my car Popovich thought many times "fuck, I should have had him in there.")
Thats a clear foul on Lebron.
Welcome to life in the NBA playoffs. Nothing new here since 1986.
Doc Rivers had calmed considerably Wednesday since his postgame comments when the coach said his team was "robbed" of a victory by the officials.
"Since no replay provided such evidence, the play correctly stood as called with the Thunder retaining possession."
Either the refs are blind and they didnt see what everyone else in america saw that it hit Jackson's hand, or the NBA replay system is a complete joke. If they didn't have a replay that provided such evidence, then they need to scrap the replay system because its a joke. If the refs didn't see that it clearly went off of Jackson, then they need new officials.
Either way the refereeing in the NBA is a joke on a nightly basis. Last night, heat game tonight, just high comedy
lets not act like wades night tonight is in any way common of late in the postseason. Take the name off the jersey and judge him solely on his play in the last two postseasons. Last year battling through a knee he was one of the most impotent 2nd options on a title team of all time, and was a liabikity defensively. Bosh didnt cover himself in glory either getting worn down by playing out of position. And at this point has been turned into a glorified floor spacer with below average rebounding presence and no post game, hes like a 7 foot 2 guard. Im a fan, but there is only one basketball, and his talents as a pure scorer (his biggest asset) are muted as a 3rd option. Thats why team building is about more than the collection of names. Chris bosh might be a better player than say serge ibaka. But if miami made that deal tomorrow they would be a better team
im a ray allen guy. But is it somehow an unfair advantage to have a three point specialist on your bench? Because that is all he is now. Hes not making the hall based on his role here. Hit the big shot in game 6, didnt score in game 7. Thats who were talking about. And hes very useful, but virtually every team has a guy who can play the role he does now, and most arent as big a liability defensively. He had a very good series vs the nets, was awful in round 1. Were gonna act like hes anything more than a good role player?
Bosh has, oddly, become one of the more underrated players in the league. He is a very good NBA player, still. Was never a force on the glass with Miami (Haslem pulled down a lot for a couple years) but - just speaking as a fan of a team playing Miami - he is a fucking pain in the ass to play against. Just a continued nuisance even when he goes for merely like 14 and 7.
Of course Allen, in the sunset of his career, is now a role player. But he's as experienced as they come and has proven absurdly clutch. I would have loved him on the Nets, who are pathetically un-clutch outside of JJ.
Bottom line: Lebron has impactful talent around him, although less so than 2 years ago. Far more useful than Mo Williams and Delonte West and whoever the hell other JAGs he had around him in Cleveland. He's an absurdly good player, but - and you can call me stupid or blind or w/e - I don't think his first 2 titles are anywhere near as impressive as, say, MJ's 2nd against Portland. I will, however, eat my words if Lebron leads this Heat team over the Spurs the way they, SA, are playing now (assuming they can get by LAC/OKC). I don't, however, think he will.
Your consecutive titles point: that narrows it down pretty far. Lakers, Rockets, Bulls if we're talking recent history. As long as you bring up Hakeem...his first title (before Drexler) was utter domination. One of the best seasons by a big man in NBA history.
jordan is the goat. But we dont even need to engage in hypotheticals to talk about how good his cast was. When he left for baseball we saw virtually the same team at its core win 55 games and come within a bogus hue hollins call away from likely making the finals. His team without him was one bad call away from knocking off his biggest conference rival without him whiles hes whiffing on curve balls. Came within a blink of beating the team who themselves came within a blink of winning a title
arguing jordan over lebron is very reasonable. But centering those arguments around mjs era being way better, or mj doing more with less is not a good starting point
If you took lebron off miami, theyre home right now. Watching this series unfold I cant envision a scenario where they even beat this net team. Even in a modern day eastern conference that is weak relative to the modern west. They would be home now
That is something they have to look at next year.
The officiating last night was embarrassing. The fact that on 1 key swing they let lebron play football defense after being torched for a stretch, and then a b s touch foul on he other end, was the biggest deciding factor down the stretch. Throw in pierce getting hacked, and it leaves a sour taste
Those calling for a nets fall off are premature. If they are able to bring Livingston back (will be tough) and Lopez heals, there is little reason to think they fall off. I would like to see pierce return as well. Let's see how bit plays out. I'd say most we're surprised how even much of this series was
On the first point, I would characterize the Malone/Stockton Jazz as "stacked" with the former obviously an extremely physical player. Ditto Kemp/Payton Sonics. Also think you're selling Ewing short. MJ beat some great teams....that's not glorification.
And what NBA team is not "flawed" right now? Jesus look at the Pacers. OKC relies overwhelmingly on 2 players, one of which proves pretty hot & cold. Gotta love the Spurs but they're banged up and old. The younger Thunder or Clips could end up bouncing them.
Such a bad loss because of the awful strategy. They should have won that game.
The jazz had arguably the best team those bulls faced in the finals. And that was malone and stockton in their mid 30s with little depth, just capitalizing on the decline of other western powers to finally get over the hump. They were bigtime playoff underachievers for the bulk of their time together. Malone often declined mightily in postseason, they lacked a reliable 2nd scorer. As great as stockton was, he came from a time where a scoring pg was a dirty word. And even though he had the talent to be a bigger scorer, that lack of a presence behind malone held the jazz back
You cant compare teams across eras based on won loss records when theyre playing in a different league. There are x amount of wins to be divided between 30 teams each season, and how they are alotted depends on the general strength of the league top to bottom. Mj played during a time of ridiculous expansion with a much smaller talent pool than today. He helped create the global beast, he didnt largely compete against it. Remove the 25 percent or so foreign presence and replace them with lesser qualified americans. That was mjs league. Not to mention the wider pool of american talent today based on growing popularity and participation, not to mention population growth.
There is much more talent in the league today than the 90s top to bottom. The bottom half of the league is way stronger than it used to be. Guys shoot it better today by a country mile. The athletes are better. The defensive schemes are way more advanced. Its not even arguable
I know today guys like Love, Bosh, Aldridge bring a new dimension of the power forward position. But at the center position guys like Noah, Howard, Hibbert, Gasol I dont believe are as offensively gifted than what we saw in the 90s.
The league is way deeper today on the wing and at pg, very arguably at the 4 spot too. This league is loaded at that spot
the center spot today also hasnt been lucky today. Yao should still be playing on a high level. Greg oden. Bynums injuries (and attitude, but mostly injury), he was a phenomenal talent. Sure if I think harder im missing a couple
Two other injured centers that never reached their potential was Bogut and Okafor.
Remember Kobe's game 7 against Boston in 2010? He was horrific shooting the basketball. 6-24 and 0-6 (!) from 3-pt. Just awful. Totally bailed out by Artest and Pau to get ring #5. Is it illegitimate to note this when talking about his finals career? If not, why is it illegitimate to reference Lebron's totally soft showing against Dallas and missed game-winner against San Antonio, which was bailed out by a prayer Ray Allen 3? You can call it "asterix-ing" wins...I call it discussing the details of the games. Like you'd discuss the Seahawks win over Green Bay after the bomb to Golden Tate. Or the aforementioned Niners win after bludgeoning an eligible receiver in Seubert. Or the blown call on Ballard's knee.
You're really sensitive toward even the mildest criticism of Lebron. While acknowledging he is a tremendous player, why is it so objectionable to believe the roads to his rings were not a notably steep climb? Peyton Manning is a once in a generation great QB. A master. Is it some profound slight to believe his lone Super Bowl win was pretty unimpressive? It was. Eli's 2007 was way more impressive. Dirk's ring more impressive than either of Lebron's. Opinions, obviously, but not really worthy of getting bent out of shape about.
And im gonna go ahead and call bullshit on dirks run being more impressive. The only aspect that may have been more impressive is the unexpected nature of it, because dirk is dirk and lebron is lebron. But lebron played on a clearly higher level than dirk did, resoundingly so if you take both ends of the floor into account. And if you divorce yourself from name power (which you seem incapable of doing) youd see dirks cast actually played better in that run than either of lebrons two title casts. Jason terry shot the lights out in that run and gave dallas a much more efficient second scorer punch than lebron had in either run. He had a DPOY caliber bigman manning the paint and changing the entire culture of the dallas d, complimenting dirk and his defensive deficiencies. He had a team that went legit 10 deep
Beyond that I have no interest in continuing this
What'd you think of Peyton's SB win? He's a top 10, maybe top 5 NFL player of all-time. Is it an unreasonable slight against him to opine that his younger brother had the more impressive playoff run?
There is no way in hell dirk did more for his team in 2011 than lebron in 12 or 13. He had his hand in way fewer facets of the game. I love dirk, he was great. But you are basically neglecting one end of the floor, discarding the offensive load that comes with being the top scorer AND defacto pg who has to initiate the offense. Dirk didnt have to run an offense or guard other teams top threats. Lebron even had a bigger load to carry on the boards and dirk is the 7 footer between them. Dirk was asked to score at a high clip efficiently. Dominate from the high post, hit his threes, every once in a while create for a teammate out of a double team, but not be the primary ball handler. He was amazing in his role, but he wasnt asked to do nearly as much
Clips up 6 mid 3rd
im going with the heat and thunder in 6. Wouldnt be stunned to be wrong in either case.
The ecf is going to basically come down to what hibbert the pacers get. He is a certified heat killer, and if he can come close to approximating the series he had last year, theyre gonna be tough to beat. Miami did make an adjustment on hibbert though in the 2nd half of their 3rd meeting this year, and the entire time in the 4th meeting, by making haslem his primary defender. He is giving up a ton of size but did a nice job forcing his catches further out. Cagey vet who can get in his head and is a better post defender than bosh or birdman, he really shut him down. But its tough to over credit haslem because hibbert was awful against all comers post all star break. He really started to come around during this wizard series though
in any case id expect miami to give haslem a big role in this series, probably go from bench warmer vs the nets to starter in game 1 due to the matchup. Battier will go from starter to the fringe of the rotation and might get buried all together
as for the wcf, okc's recent ownership of sa is well documented. 10 of 12 including playoffs. Parker entering the series with a tender hammy and will now have to chase the roadrunner russell westbrook all over the floor. Good luck with that. Ibaka's calf injury is something to monitor too though. The thunder have athletic advantages all over the floor though. If the thunder bench can just hold their own and not get hit with game altering runs against the spurs 2nd unit of 5 foreigners (which has been a lethal lineup this postseason) I think theyll be ok. Okc is not one shred initimidated by san antonio, if anything the opposite is true. This was a matchup they did not want. They were rooting for memphis and the clips as hard as anyone
And it's so weird to me that so many people like them when their games look like the worst pickup games you'll ever play in. I guess the Durant "seems like a nice guy" effect is that powerful.
I think the key to beating them will be to keep them off the foul line. Just let them do their hero ball, but don't foul. Westbrook will get points his with his reckless drives. Durant will take and make some terrible shots. It's tough becuase Westbrook is so aggressive. And because you have to play tight on Durant and he flops so much, especially for non-shooting fouls. Those are the absolute killer, Durant throwing his arms up and getting 2 free points.
Conference finals should be great. The NBA playoffs is all about the best teams, and we've got the best teams squaring off. Although I do think the Clippers deserved better.
The damn call on Paul on the offensive foul in this last game was hard to take. I have never seen that call in my life. Was he supposed to take the knee to the face?
It was topped by the pathetic foul call on the 3 pointer in game 5 and the obvious BS call on the Jackson play before the 3 pt shot. It was clear as day that ball went off Jackson. Its complete BS the refs can choose when to use replay. On this play, they choose to ignore what was on that replay. And then after all of that they don't call the foul for Paul at the end of the game. The guy punched him in the arm. That's not a foul but Paul standing straight up on 3 pointer is a foul.
I HATE the change with the fouls on shooters (especially 3 pointers). The shooters can jump into a guy not moving and its a foul.
My biggest beef with the Clippers in this series was the use of Griffin. When he catches that ball at the top of the key he needs to attack more often. They were dropping 5 ft off him and he rarely put the ball on the floor and attacked from that spot. He consistently ignored it and looked to move it back to the guards. He should have been more aggressive. And they should have dropped it into him in the post more often. This should have been plan A every time down the court.
The reason they lost game 5 was not the officials, it was Chris Paul. Trying to draw a foul for a 3 point shot 80 feet away from the basket is just down right stupid. That singe play cost them the game and the potential to win the series. Not a foul missed by the referees that gave the right team the ball.
And Paul absolutely fouled him on the 3 point shot. He clearly hit him on the wrist. The same way Crawford got a 4 point play earlier in the game.
There are missed calls on hand slaps all game long. The bottom line is the refs should not have the option to use replay to cover for any missed foul call.
They had the same call in the GS series. Paul was fouled but no call. Ball out on Paul. Replay gives ball to GS. They did not choose to use replay to correct a missed foul call here. Refs should not have that option to choose when to use replay to cover for fouls. Its BS.
Replay should be used for one reason and one reason only, to get THAT call correct. Not fix other fuck ups by the officials
The fact of the matter is a top 3 player in the NBA turned it over twice and foiled a 3 point shooter in the final 17 seconds. That's where the blame lies.end of story. Maybe Paul should stop crying (by far the biggest complainer in the NBA) and not try a shot from 80 feet away trying to draw a foul.
What should be noted is that CPIII comes up short again. But excuses will be made for him.
Replay should be used for one reason and one reason only, to get THAT call correct. Not fix other fuck ups by the officials
And if the ref called a foul on Jacksons play people would complain that it was a touch foul and it dictated the outcome of the game. I have absolutely ZERO problem with the call. OKC needed to have the ball one way or the other.
Get officials that can do their jobs. Officials are going to blow calls throughout the game, so should they go back and fix those mistakes too?
But I think the Clippers' lack of athleticism on the perimeter killed them. If they just had someone like Nic Batum, I think they'd be the best team in the league this year.
The Thunder are the least smoke and mirrors great team in sports today. On offense, It's Durant... It's Westbrook. That's it, and it works. It's ugly to watch because there's no passing on offense and it's mainly KD and Russ taking turns. But it works because of KD being an all-time great scorer and Westbrook being the most hyperathletic PG ever.
As a "team", I believe both the Spurs and Clips are better balanced and easier to watch. But I think OKC is just much more explosive and athletic than those two teams on the perimeter and it makes a big difference. I think the Thunder are the best team in the West and the team with the highest ceiling in the league outside of maybe Miami (depends on Wade).
Sugar K Leonard will be the key role player in the WCF imo. Bigtime series for Durant's reputation. He hasn't had his A game in the playoffs.
Get officials that can do their jobs. Officials are going to blow calls throughout the game, so should they go back and fix those mistakes too?
I know many college officials who rather give the ball to a team than call a foul. That may have well been the case here. IMO, the Thunder needed to have the ball there. LAC still could have gotten a stop, LAC could have gotten a score at the end. The problem is not the call, its replay. If coaches have a problem with a call of this nature, then replay will be extended to if there was a dfoul on the play.
Everyone and their mother knows Jackson got fouled on the play. So, include fouls as well on the replay because they are just as easy to see as who it was off. That way less coaches will complain about a paritcular outcome. I loved the call. If LAC got the ball, there would have been more of an injustice than what happened.
Or better yet, dont try to shoot the ball from the opposite foul line when someone is going to foul you. You dont do that, you arent in the situation your already in.
This is who I recall seeing time on him in this series...
matt barnes.... hes an ok defender but when he is your best, you are in trouble
danny granger.... once was solid now cannot move laterally
cp3.... giving up a foot but going small on him was the only way to stop getting killed off the dribble, because barnes and granger were. But he needed frequent double team help and you couldnt do it for any more than small doses or you wear him out
crawford and redick round out their wing guys, and while redick might be underrated defensively, none of those guys are above average.
lebron would murder this team. Wade would even have a throwback series. They could have used a guy like deng when chicago was dangling him. Their offense is capable of incredible heights and for that reason they had a punchers chance. But it was going to be tough
Parker says his hammy is fine and he will be ready for game 1
Parker says his hammy is fine and he will be ready for game 1
Deep down, an injury to Ibaka means more Durant. And thats fine by me. More KD, the better.
I hope Ibaka is healthy just so we can see Durant vs. Kawhi Leonard. Leonard was dominant versus Portland.
I hope the Heat sweep the Pacers. I can't get over the fact the Pacers are still alive despite the 3-5 most gutless performances of the entire postseason.
Vs Lebron, Griffin and Barnes would have guarded him. That is not an easy matchup for Lebron. Last time they played Griffin was up for it and did a nice job on D when matched up. He can't out quick or out muscle Griffin.
Bigtime loss for OKC. I still think they can beat the Spurs but now it's almost entirely on KD and Westbrook.
dep, yea I was probably a little too strong with the "not his A game" comments. I just hold him to such a high standard and during these playoffs his shot has seemed a little hot/cold compared to his regular season self. He definitely bounced back vs. the Clips after the Grizz series.
you really overrate barnes. Hes a decent wing defender, but every team who appeared in this round, maybe even these playoffs entirely save atlanta, has one or two better. The clips were unequipped to handle any big wing scorer and that shined bright in this series
fucking spurs catching another huge break again
blake griffin isnt a guy you see playing 20 feet from the rim against guys who can handle the ball very often. If the clips ever went to a heavy dose of that, lebron would have the goat finals performance.
But they never played that series because durant just authored arguably the best series of his career against them, as expected. This was clear to see coming from him. Either this or the 12 wcf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St5PLcxZy44
Lebron had 9 in the 1st. And shot 4-5 from the field. He outmuscled him in a few times for layups.
And he came back into the game when James came back in the game at the 6:16 mark.
Indy is getting a lot of balance. Hill was big in the 1st, West made moves down lown, Hibbert was a factor, Stephenson made a lot of jumpers, Watson contributed. Scola was a factor.
The guy who I think is a stiff anymore is Bosh. He doesnt even bother to post up. He is like Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges reincarnated.
The Ibaka loss is just huge. That means more, ugh, Perkins.
Chalmers would be a good fit on the Pacers. Despise him.
lol don't you worry.. The Heat will get plenty of "home cookin" in Miami.
Few calls were missed however Indy attacked the basket at a much higher rate.
Ibaka is a huge loss. His money mid-range jumper opens up the lane for his own teammates to penetrate, and his rim protection skills makes it harder for the opposing team to penetrate. The PG matchup is huge in this series with Parker going up against Westbrook. Ibaka's loss could have a major impact on the PG matchup. Parker should find it much easier with no Ibaka around. Whereas Westbrook might be forced into more contested jumpers and less layups with no Ibaka around.
Leonard on Durant should be really fun to watch this series. Durant will need to torch him if OKC wants to win the series. I would definitely go smallball in this series for stretches if I were Brooks, Durant at the 4 guarding Splitter shouldn't be too risky.
2. Head to head success vs sa since the 2012 playoffs and in the regular seasons since, if for no other reason than okc will be confident against this team and have experiences to draw on
but its going to be tough. Durant and westbrook need to both play on an incredibly high level. Westbrook will basically have to demolish parker
Just wow.
His lineups are just absolute dogshit. Some moves he makes just make me question how he is a coach
link. - ( New Window )
SA and Miami 2 should be a good one, though I hope i'm wrong and its Indy.
Would love for Cuban to uncover something substantial by the way.
Would love for Cuban to uncover something substantial by the way.
Hoping for Indy as well and as far as Cuban's investigation goes I think it's great, that Finals was ridiculous
Paul George needs to stop crying to the officials and play some basketball.
I believe the NBA rule states anything under .3 can be tipped it.
And I though the rule was that you can't get a shot of under .3 seconds, not a tip. He never released the ball, he tapped it, therefor it isn't a under the same rule, IMO. If he held the ball if be fine waiving it off be it basically slapped it.
lebron gets a "d" grade offensively in that half. Would have given him an "a" grade defensively before the halftime buzzer beater. They wereconcerned about hibbert on that play but he should have put himself in position to recover there
I dont have a great feeling about this game from a miami standpoint nd the way the battle of the boards is unfolding. But on the flipside lebron hssnt played well and theyre up 4. Also the last 2 and a half games from wade are very encouraging
bosh is chronically invisible against indy in the playoffs.
You cannot leave Miami's shooters. Let Lebron get his. They are tripling team Lebron letting wide open shooters go. Thats how Miami wins.
Paul George, apologize to your teammates after this game.
Now it's just a question of if they will lose in 5 or 6. They're coming back to Indy down 3-1
Now it's just a question of if they will lose in 5 or 6. They're coming back to Indy down 3-1
They looked great celebrating up 4 with 6:00 to go.
Lebron got away with a blatant foul on that "steal" at the top of the key. Hacked George's forearm. Indy still deserved to lose regardless...closing the 4th just like the Nets. Great game from Wade and Birdman.
lebron was terrific in the 2nd half in all facets, but miami won this game on the defensive end. They came with urgency tonight, and if they didnt get crushed on the offensive boards, the pacers probably struggle to score 70 tonight. But thats going to be an issue all series. Miami did do a much better job on the boards in that 2nd half though. This was just a huge win. Lebron and wade either scored or assisted on every point in that 4th. They took it over.
game 3 isnt until saturday. Long ass wait. Miami did what they had to do, but indy is more than capable of stealing home court back. This is just a rough matchup. Im beyond sick of roy hibbert bringing his magic fairy dust each time he sees the miami frontcourt and going off
Indiana is crazy streak but capable of quality ball.
The Mavs were healthy for the playoffs and better than most people thought. The West was absurdly deep this year.
I think the spurs are the best team. Theyre certainly beatable, but okc minus serge is not the team. We are probably headed for a finals rematch. And without burying indy yet, its the one most people want to see. Without getting too ahead of ourselves, I think bosh is the key to that series. If we are constantly referring to him as a future hof, is it asking too much for him to not get completely destroyed by 38 year old duncan? Prior to last years finals he had actually performed very well against timmy in his career, but really got crushed over those 7 games, didnt even score in game 7. If that matchup is anywhere near a standstill miami will threepeat. Of course there are tons of other factors, but my extremely early and lazy thoughts there surround that matchup
bosh has to show against indy first though, hasnt done that
im so fucking sick of them. Id even hold my nose and pull for indiana if it came downto it.
They garner less criticism because they:
a) are the 3rd city in their state, let alone the country
b) feature a modest and non-controversial superstar
c) are a legit dynasty with few hiccups thus the lavish praise is merited
Their coach is also arguably the best in the NBA and (unlike, say, the Heat) most of their key players were drafted by them which makes them extra interesting and special since they were "built" instead of thrown together.
Poppovich is a great coach but a jackass, and at this point is a caricature of himself with the media. His jackassery hits a different level of douchiness when hes now at a point where much of it is manufactured to play into the celebrated character he has become.
I couldnt give two shits about whether they drafted their players when the piece that put everything in motion was a huge stroke of lotto luck on a teamthat was already title contenders because of a previous huge stroke of lotto luck. They were way ahead of the curve on international talent at the turn of the century, but I dont know how that makes them more likeable unless you root for froht offices
But all of this is besides the point. Stop telling me they dont get enough credit. If anything, they dont get enough criticism.
But that doesnt fit into the warm and fuzzy spurs narrative everyone bends over backwards to cultivate
Regardless, again...it's San Antonio. It's the 7th biggest city in America and probably 50th on a list of those the average American would want to visit. So it stands to reason it and its teams (sorry, team) get less attention. Sort of akin to the Cardinals who quietly have been one of the premier franchises in baseball. But it's all Yankees, Red Sox, and even the fucking Cubs before St Louis.
The narrative also spawns from the age of their players and how long they've been together. It's an interesting story. Compounded by the smallish (rep-wise) city they hail from.
I guess, but I still think Spurs players and fans alike would somehow manage to soldier on despite that hardship.
But there's no team right now that looks talented enough to put the Spurs in their place this year. Miami could beat them but that's only because LeBron is a legend and Wade is a legend every now and then.
Ibaka was a bigger loss than I originally thought and I thought he was a big loss. I predicted SAS in 6 and it was a hard 6, closer to 7 than 5. After these first 2 games I feel like it's closer a hard 5, but even that might be optimistic for the Thunder. Game 3 is the most important game of the year for the Thunder. Kevin Durant and the OKC bench need to go apeshit if they want to beat the Spurs.
Tim Duncan > Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Dirk, Garnett
Best player of the post-Jordan era. Shaq's peak is really hard to go against and I'm 50/50 on Duncan vs. Shaq for that reason. But Duncan's all-around game and longevity gives him the slight edge imo. LeBron looks "on pace" to have a greater career than Duncan, but he's not there yet. And if Duncan and the Spurs defeat the Heat in the Finals, it'll be really tough for me to rank LeBron over Duncan anytime soon.
Dirk (and he's my favorite non-Net ever) and KG, obviously. Kobe it's close. Lebron is too green to compare to a 38 y/o.
But I can't agree on Shaq. Prime Shaq is as dominant a player as this league has seen. If you want to put heavy emphasis on the "longevity" factor then Duncan is clearly in the discussion, but Shaq was simply on another level, warts (free throws) and all. Although boring as fuck to watch.
cant put them ahead of russells celts for obvious reasons
cant put them with jordans bulls even if the bulls had lost in 98
and they take a backseat to both 5 title eras as well in my view even if they match them. Theyre not magics lakers who went to 9 finals, once 4 consecutively. Had a repeat, and for the better part of over a decade they either won the title every year or the champion had to go through them to do it. The spurs have never reached that status impact wise. Not even close.
Id put them behind the kobe era lakers too. Not saying kobe is better than duncan, and I hesitate to call it the kobe era because he was a sidekick for much of it. But 5 titles and 7 finals trips in 11 years. Outside of the 3 year window post shaq and pre pau they either won the title every year, or the champ went through them. Had two separate conference threepeats. A three peat champion and repeat champion, and a space of history that was distinctly theirs
when we are comparing greatness at that level, there is something to be said for defending whats yours, and rising above to reclaim it. Something to be said for having a lock on the league so strong, that everyone perenially knows for a period of time that youre gonna win the title or someone is going to need to go through you to do it. Thats why id have all those runs over the spurs
I cant
his longevity is amazing though. Shaq didnt match it and who knows with lebron.
And from a supporting cast perspective he was born rich and will die rich. Entered the most favorable situation this side of magic. Exiting on a team that could baby his minutes load and responsibilities and still contend. If the spurs do win the title this year he would be the worst best player on a title team in at least 10 years, if you consider him their best player still, and I do. If people want to nitpick with his cast for a couple years as they were transitioning from the old 90s era spurs holdovers to the young euros, fine. But for the better part of two decades he has had contention level casts
Quote:
Tim Duncan > Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Dirk, Garnett
Dirk (and he's my favorite non-Net ever) and KG, obviously. Kobe it's close. Lebron is too green to compare to a 38 y/o.
But I can't agree on Shaq. Prime Shaq is as dominant a player as this league has seen. If you want to put heavy emphasis on the "longevity" factor then Duncan is clearly in the discussion, but Shaq was simply on another level, warts (free throws) and all. Although boring as fuck to watch.
Like you said, we could go on for a while about how those guys I mentioned rank. Just my reasoning for Duncan over Shaq...
Like I said I was 50/50 on Shaq vs. Duncan. Over the past several years I've flip flopped on who I rank higher. Shaq is one of a handful of players who I could argue had the GOAT peak, Duncan isn't in that argument. That's a huge check mark next to Shaq's name that Duncan doesn't have. A check mark so big that I can't really argue too much if that's your basis for choosing Shaq.
But Duncan's peak was pretty damn filthy himself. The issue with Duncan is that he wasn't an "A+" scorer even at his peak. But he always made such a complete impact. Go back and watch the closeout game clinics he put up in 2003 against the Lakers (with prime Shaq and Kobe) and the Nets.
2003 Tim Duncan is one of the greatest players in NBA history. Not quite GOAT but right on that next level with a bunch of legends. IMO, that's a close enough peak to 2000 Shaq for me to lean Duncan based on longevity. 37 year old Duncan is the team MVP of the best team in basketball, 37 year old Shaq was an absolute afterthought on the 2010 Cavs. I bet most people don't even realize he was on that Cavs team.
Shaq's peak was so epic I'm not going to argue to death with you, but I'd lean Duncan. Most underappreciated American athlete in recent history.
if duncan gets his 5th its no doubt a big deal. But lets just be real whats happehing here... he is post prime and his loaded team had the best record in the nba with him playing shy of 30 minutes a night. He is in an incredible situation.
I just don't buy your point. It's like arguing the Devils were so consistently great "in part" because of Brodeur, but also because he was drafted into a good situation with a dynamite GM. Yes, those two things are true, like they are for the Spurs, but the Devils won Stanley Cups because of Brodeur.
Even Jordan, not a great situation to begin with but soon came Pippen, Grant, BJ, then later Rodman (could you imagine the Heat if they had a player like Rodman?), Kerr, Kukoc. Definite nucleus.
Magic as you mentioned is a no brainer.
If you want to argue Lebron in Cleveland...agreed. But he couldn't get it done there so he split right quick.
If you cant see the difference there I dont know what to tell you.
Jordan wasn't in a wasteland very long. Pippen and Horace came along pretty soon.
But my point was and is that Duncan's success, like Brodeur's. is overwhelmingly because of Duncan and not because of his surroundings.
If you were arguing your point except for Kobe instead of TD, then I'd buy it (and I like Bryant as a player).
When you put it that way, it corroborates the position that the Spurs don't get enough credit. How many franchises in all of sports can accrue and maintain the level of talent they have despite picking late in the draft nearly every year for well over a decade? It's a feat that can't be lauded enough.
judging only players I saw the entire career of, I cant put duncan at his best ahead of jordan, shaq, lebron or even hakeem olajuwon. I might have his prime 5th among just guys I lived through. Career wise he is arguably 2nd
I have an irrational hatred of them and it is what it is. A lot of what I say comes from that place and im fine admitting it. I absolutely fear that im a few weeks away from kick to the nuts, and it pisses me off
But so much of that relies on the fact that Tim Duncan is such a versatile and complete two-way centerpiece who can adapt and fill whatever role the team needs.
And my answer to the "He had unreal organizational help" is this...
The 2003 Spurs were the greatest one man carry job in modern NBA history.
People went gaga over Dirk doing what he did in 2011, but he had Chandler to play the role of defensive MVP. Duncan was making the same offensive impact Dirk was, and he was also making a far greater defensive impact than Chandler was. Duncan led that Spurs team in every single category during that run. That team had names like Parker, Robinson, Manu, and Jackson but none of those guys were playing well. Duncan put that team on his back and beasted in the playoffs, knocked off the 3x defending Champ Lakers with an epic Game 6 beatdown. And then he caps off the season with a damn near Quadruple Double in a very slow paced series. It was a one man demolition of the league with a cast that wasn't far from LeBron's Cavs casts in terms of support.
So he has already proven that he can carry a garbage cast to the promised land. I don't know what better answer there is to "he always had help". He has taken advantage of the help he has gotten with the Spurs and 2014 Duncan isn't nearly as important to the team as 2003 Duncan. But he is still the MVP of that team at 37.
He is absolutely underappreciated...
Jordan
Magic
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
LeBron
Those are the only players since like 1980 that you could truly argue were greater than Duncan. All 6 of those players were America's most talked about athlete at one point in their careers. Tim Duncan didn't even come close to that kind of appreciation and IMO he has had a better career than every player on that list outside of Jordan and maybe Magic and Shaq.
he also deserves his share of credit for the flexibility the organization has had by taking less money on his most recent extension. Could have gone the kobe route
Sure they were absolutely weak by title winning cast standards, but this wasnt the cavs.
You can convince yourself that team was good because they knocked off your Lakers, but that all about the Tim Duncan Show baby. In a series that included prime Shaq and prime Kobe, Tim Duncan was the undisputed best player on the floor. And it's not like Kobe/Shaq played poorly, they both played at a ridiculous level but Duncan was just better. Sure he had help and guys with 3s and played D.
I don't think they're a garbage cast compared to the average NBA supporting cast. But compared to the casts of NBA Champions, it was absolutely weak as fhhuuck. Their entire offense was "Duncan... and pray someone else is hot for a few games". Their entire defense was based on Duncan and Bowen being studs. Robinson could still D up but was a shadow of his former self at that point.
Duncan --- 24.7 -- 15.4 -- 5.3 --- .529 -- .000 -- 28.4
Parker --- 14.7 -- 2.8 --- 3.5 --- .403 -- .268 -- 11.9
Jackson -- 12.8 -- 4.1 --- 2.7 --- .414 -- .336 -- 12.0
Bowen ---- 6.9 --- 2.9 --- 1.6 --- .372 -- .438 -- 8.9
Ginobili - 9.4 --- 3.8 --- 2.9 --- .386 -- .384 -- 15.0
Robinson - 7.8 --- 6.6 --- 0.9 --- .542 -- .000 -- 17.7
Rose ----- 9.3 --- 5.8 --- 1.0 --- .419 -- .000 -- 13.3
Yes, Bowen and Manu went crazy from 3 in the Lakers series. But they were cold from deep besides that in the playoffs. For the entirety of that playoff run the only offensive option was Tim Duncan. Go back and name me the teams in NBA history who won a title with #2 and #3 scoring options who played as poorly as the Spurs' did. Here's a little hint... there aren't any.
And that's just the offense. Duncan was a better defensive player than offensive player. He definitely had more help defensively with Bowen and old man Robinson, but he was clearly the anchor of that defense.
It's crazy when you read the names on the roster, it seems like a pretty loaded team. But when you realized where all those guys were in the year 2003, it become clearer exactly how much of a one man show that Championship really was. I'd say they were a little bit more talented than the '09/'10 Cavs but not by that much.
No one player did more for a Championship team in the playoffs than Tim Duncan did in 2003. More than anything that's my main point. Prove me wrong.
I dont think there are many years where the 03 spurs win titles.
But by this time he was entering his 30s and losing his defensive form. Hakeem's defensive prime and offensive prime only overlapped for 3 years, '93-'95. And quite honestly he wasn't even the same on defense in '95. And for a lot of his 20s he was a bit of a hothead and was far from a team leader. It wasn't until he found Islam that he became a true leader.
Tim Duncan was a leader from Day 1 and he knew how to pass from Day 1. That's a big difference between these two and why I'd lean Duncan AS A ROCKETS FAN. Peak, I'd go Hakeem but again I'm taking both peak and longevity into account.
I wrote a shitload of words here tonight, but at the end of the day these are my thoughts...
- Duncan's peak isn't considered to be on the same level as Shaq's or Hakeem's or LeBron's
- Duncan's peak season was 2003
- 2003 Tim Duncan had the Most Valuable Playoff Run in NBA History for a Champion
- Most Valuable Playoff Run in NBA History = Not many peaks better
- Peak isn't the only thing that matters either, longevity matters too
- At the age of 37, Duncan is the MVP of the best team in basketball
- Not many better when it comes to Peak + Longevity
No more Duncan talk for me atleast until the Finals. Just paying my respects to an absolute boss of an athlete.
I had to turn my tv off when i turned the game on and then turn it back on because i thought something was wrong with my tv
Paul George, MIA..... Again. Whats his excuse this time?
This is why Hibbert defense is not as good as guys like Gasol or Noah. They can defend the pick and roll so much better than Hibbert does.
Why would you retreat past the line in those circumstances
The only thing that is to be determined in this series is if it ends in 5 or 6, Indiana has no chance to win it
Miami is playing their best ball of the season right now. 10-2 in the playoffs, unbeaten at home. Having wade in the lineup every single night has been huge from a rhythm and cohesion standpoint. Big difference from the regular season when he would rarely play more than 4 or 5 in a row on his maintenance program, in addition to like 23 different starting lineups this year. A consistent rotation here in the playoffs and theyre really clicking
Bosh is just having a pathetic series. He just cant perform against this team. They can beat indiana without much from him. But at some point he needs to get his head out of his ass.
looks like ibaka is gonna give it a go tomorrow
West guards Allen. Allen gets tons of wide open 3's. Miami wins the mismatch game and blows out the Pacers in the 4th.
Despite that, I do think overall that LeBron has passed his peak on the defensive end. He's not quite as quick as was a few years ago and definitely can't bring the same intensity for as long as he used to.
Spoelstra is doing well with having some flexibility in his rotations, which is something a lot of NBA teams don't do that often. Cole over Chalmers when he's playing well. Lewis over Battier last night. Mixing in the right amounts of Birdman and Haslem. The one thing he's never really figured out is how to maximize Bosh, but maybe it's not that important. There are times though when it would help them if Bosh could take over a quarter when he has a good matchup, but it rarely happens.
Surely it was the opposite as usual, right?
ibaka gave okc more last night then you could have ever dreamed. Huge difference on both ends. Theyve won 8 straight now at home vs sa. And unless the spurs can find a way tomorrow to somehow take one at a place that has been a house of horrors, this is going to be a long series
Miami can choke indy out tonight. Its about time bosh shows up against the pacers. Hes now gone 7 straight playoff games against them without scoring double digits. Thats just unfathomable.
He was just recently quoted said he is done banging in the post. He is strictly a Shane Battier on offense now. Just a jump shooter.
why change the rule?
really poor, and i like him as a player, but the more they go through him the worse it gets.
Nets put up a much better performance then these guys
And lace stephenson is dog shit
he also had a 30-10-5 tonight which extends his already record total.
this is one of the most amazing playoff performers evet, was true before he ever won a ring. And right now he is in the midst of arguably his best playoff run. This is just incredible efficiency. If he caps this off with a threepeat and spearheading the best 4 year team run since russells celts, we are very arguably talking about the GOAT pre 30 year old career
Said he thought the Pacers outplayed the Heat tonight.
At no point in the game were they even in it. He is looking at a stat sheet and saying they only lost cuz of the free throw line and they outplayed them on the court.
Brain dead.
That's incredibly impressive. And he is also the best defensive player on the floor for his team on top of it.
I bestowed the virtues of Tim Duncan above and I still believe he has had the best career of a player since MJ. But there's no doubt that LeBron is on pace to pass Duncan and make a real run at Jordan over these next 5 years. Just a special athlete.
All this talk from Stephenson and George has been annoying. The Pacers have had a 2 year run as the Heat's primary rival in the East. But I hope it's another team's turn to be the Heat's biggest challenge out East next year.
Hibbert sulking on the bench every time he has a bad game...
West crying to the official after every single call against him...he swears he has never committed a foul in his life...
I just dont like George everyone anointed him at the beginning of the year and i just dont see it...he is a good young player and obviously has a lot of room to grow but i just dont see that guy thats going to step up on a consistent basis and take over games like you need your star player to do...
Stephenson is just punk...he talks endless shit when he is playing bad and then like last night blames it on other people when his shit talk gets thrown back into his face...
Not an exaggeration to posit that possibly the 8th and certainly the 7th seed in the West is better than any non-Heat team in the East. Zach Randolph is a player that could give Miami fits but he's too busy dealing with the gauntlet in the West.
It's kind of a bummer in a way. We are all robbed of what would be much more compelling contests. Think of how awesome the Jordan vs Isiah series were. We get none of that in the East these days. SFGF said it earlier: "wake me up when it's Heat/Spurs."
You gotta wonder if Jordan would have started compiling rings earlier if he had as soft an EC as Lebron, instead of Isiah, Bird, Shaq, etc. Almost certainly a factor during "The Decision" was not playing in the West.
Couldn't say it better myself.
Bulls have to go all out for Melo or Love. They need a scorer.
But 4 straight NBA Finals appearances is impressive no matter what the competition is. Magic Johnson's Lakers played in an absolutely pathetic Western Conference in the 80s, which is why they always made it to the Finals. I don't see too many people bring that up to lessen Magic's resume.
But yeah, the Rose injuries have just been dreadful. Taking my fandom out of it, he was electric and one of the few must see stars the NBA had. There are a few more now with Curry, Griffen, etc, but still don't think its on the same level as what it was with Rose, and that even had potential to grow.
The blowouts, yes, are in part due to how good the Heat are. But the trash they're facing doesn't hurt either.
But it's still been fun watching LeBron play like this. 28.8 PPG on .573 FG shooting in these playoffs for LeBron. That kind of efficiency is unheard of in the playoffs. And obviously there is so much more to LeBron than scoring the basketball.
The best conference foe jordan faced in his first threepeat was a knick team who was garbage offensively and almost lost to the bulls in 94 with jordan playing baseball. Lets not make the 90s east out to be some murderers row.
Lebron is also facing better defenses consistently to compile these playoff numbers. Might sound sacreligious to say but its fact......even the bad boy pistons in todays nba would be just another solid defensive team. Lauded as amazing in their ers, lebron has faced countless defenses that were more effective. Hell even the 2014 bobcats are comparable defensively statistically to the best of the bad boy teams. This is a different era
But thats sports. If len bias didnt die, and bird doesnt throw out his back, that celtic team makes that first bulls threepeat a lot tougher. If penny doesnt get hurt and shaq doesnt bolt, the 2nd threepeat is substantially tougher. A bulls team on its last legs in 98 probably doesnt get by them
go thunder tonight
I think OKC would get beat fairly easily by the Heat
durant and westbrook both incredible in that half. They are murdering sa tonight after falling down 8-0. Plus 23 since then
by the way. People can feel bad for seattle and I get it. But okc was a great addition to the league. One of the best atmospheres in the sport if not all of sports. Sell outs every night. The reason they got the team in the first place is they were wildly supportive of the hornets post katrina, and packed the place every night for a team that wasnt even theirs. They deserve their franchise
I think OKC would get beat fairly easily by the Heat
OKC looks much better without Thabo Sefolosha. Problem is against Miami he would have to play to guard Lebron at times. Even then, him and KD are not the guy who necessary give him problems.
but im starting to think it wont matter the way miami is playing. A spurs rematch would have many different dynamics this time around. Miami is going to be the team resting this year entering that matchup, while sa will likely go 7. Last year the spurs swept memphis while miami was going blood and guts vs indy for another week while sa rested. This time around wade is way healthier. This time around id expect an even bigger finals by lebron, who started the first 3 games slow in last years finals struggling with his jumper, before really stepping it up in the back half of the series.
but the spurs in the duncan and pop era have already blown 2 such series, and this could be a 3rd. If sa cant get back on their footing at home in game 5, this series is over. Theyll lose in 6. I dont know that sa can win in this building. They get skullfucked here with amazing considtency
first player to hit that entirely selective combination in a playoff game since jordan in 89. He was amazing tonight in every facet. The level he is capable of playing on during one of his "A" games is ridiculous from an overall perspective. His single game ceiling rivals anyone not named Lebron.
The Rose injury was just discussed on here, but another disappointing part of that is the fact that we can't compare Rose to Westbrook. That would've been a fun debate for a long time.
Might be the most astonishing stat Joe and I have ever seen. Suffice it to say, Indiana is a horrible basketball team. And Paul George has gone from Superstar to Overrated.
now he picks up his 4th foul as im typing. Hes never won a playoff game scoring 15 or fewer. He will tonight barring a big 2nd half
now he picks up his 4th foul as im typing. Hes never won a playoff game scoring 15 or fewer. He will tonight barring a big 2nd half
And the one thing about Lebron that I actually do like is I dont think he gives a shit if he scores 2 or 52. As long as they win.
that plus 13 with lebron off has now been wiped clean in 4 minutes
why couldnt this paul george been around in games 3 and 4
why couldnt this paul george been around in games 3 and 4
Because Paul George isn't a good enough player to play like this every night.
it would still be stunning to see indy win a game 6 in miami even if they close this one out
If Indy loses this game, if I am Vogel I call out George Hill for being a selfish bum. They need to run time off the clock or get fouled. You have to know your surroundings. Just a stupid play by Hill.
although easy to say in hindsight.. phenomenal play by lebron
They're going to get smoked in game 6. You can write down 35 for LeBron right now
They're going to get smoked in game 6. You can write down 35 for LeBron right now
Agreed.
id call this the worst playoff game of lebrons career, except it was more like the worst playoff half. The 7 points is a career low, the 23 minutes is also a career low. Never got in rhythm tonight with the foul trouble. Heat overcame it in the first half, got crushed in the 2nd half with him off the floor. At one point in this game the heat were plus 16 with lebron off the floor. They finished it a minus 4. Pacers were plus 20 in like a 5 minute stretch. Heat made their push and this wss starting to feel like the 4th quarter comeback in the 2011 game 5 closer at chicago, but george just countered every punch
if youre miami, this isnt the worst thing in the world. It was a total gravy game. And 6 days off before the finals is probably a better balance to strike between rest and rust than 8 days had they won tonight. But now there is some pressure in game 6.
heres a fact.... the next time lebron hits a shot to win or tie in the final 10 seconds of a playoff game, he will have done so exactly as many times as jordan did in his career.
My issue with it is it seems like LeBron never had any intentions on shooting it, he got into the lane easily and immediately looked to kick it out.
I never complain about the officials. Im not making last nights results about the officials, even though as many of three of those fouls were bs. But it is example one billion about how the concept of superstar treatment is the biggest exaggeration going. Of course though this wont stop people from beating that drum the next time a big name player gets a random call
He gets a ton of calls, as do a handful of other players. He's a great defender and definitely gets the better end of the leeway battle more often than not, but that leeway certainly helps him.
Him getting called for fouls was bound to happen. The charge and the loose ball where he body checked Stephenson were legit (I think Stephenson got away with being a but too aggressive), can't remember the others though.
He throws down a historic regular season and is the hands down league MVP. But a couple of playoff games and Westbrook might be the better player and Ibaka is the real team MVP. Hilarious. Those two guys are fantastic but Durant makes that team go. I hope he reminds people of that tonight.
but thats not even really my point. Officials miss calls. 99 percent of the time both teams get the result they deserve, and I wouldnt put last night in the 1 percent. Im not saying lebron gets a consistent raw deal from the officials. But I am saying the preferential treatment stuff is crap. And if anything more contact is allowed at the rim against him than your average player, because of his ability to absorb it. A lower case version of how it used to be with shaq
He throws down a historic regular season and is the hands down league MVP. But a couple of playoff games and Westbrook might be the better player and Ibaka is the real team MVP. Hilarious. Those two guys are fantastic but Durant makes that team go. I hope he reminds people of that tonight.
not to make any excuses for kd, but I wonder how much fatigue plays into this. Hes approaching 4,000 minutes before the finals even start. Hes on pace to play more than lebron or jordan ever played in a season. And these were demanding minutes, having to carry the team without westbrook for long stretches. Dogfights in the playoffs, lengthy wars that have been emotionally and physically draining. 4 straight overtimes in the memphis series. Had to play through game 82 to clinch the 2 seed
all that said....OMG WESTBROOK.... sorry back to topic. All that said, hes still largely playing well in this postseason for anyone not named lebron or himself. He just hasnt been as consistent
great start for okc. If they win tonight this is over. Much much bigger tonight for sa. I could see okc winning a game 7 in sa if need be. I cant see the spurs winning in okc at all. If okc wins tonight, goodnight
We likely won't agree so that's the last I'll talk about it.
That Westbrook dunk was nuts just now.
In over 1000 games played
If I did hear that stat right then you can't tell me Lebron doesn't get calls in his benefit.
Also this isn't me attacking or anything. Just think that's a pretty crazy stat
I have no dog in this fight, but I still wear Jordan Jammies. Got a problem with that?
You know you got the matching Worthy jammies too.
mostly cause lebron is such a physical player and is very aggressive on Defense, i thought that he would have at least had it happen once before in his career with 1000+ games logged
Id be surprised if we didnt see a game 7. But usually, when a series goes true to homecourt in the first 6 games, it doesnt break stride in game 7. Tough to think of many examples where the first road win in a series comes in game 7. Okc is capable though
Only question tonight does Lebron go for 35/12 or 40/10.
get a pg and they are right there
Time for Mr. Celebrator, Paul George, to step up and actually guard him.
Paul George celebrating his 0-5 first quarter yet? Fucking clown.
Yeah, probably will. Dumbass as I am still watches the Silly Phillies too.
this is just sad
this was the most predictable game of the playoffs. No way miami wasnt going to finish this off at home.
on another note.... ive seen every playoff game this heat team has played since lebron came. Well over half the regular season games. Theyve never had a better half. Theyve been stewing over game 5 for 48 hours, they cant stand the pacers in general. They wanted to murder this team tonight. Of course it helps when youre shooting it that well (60 points in a half against statistically one of the best defenses ever), but their effort and posession to possession focus tonight has been as good as its ever been in those 24 minutes. They came with an intention to kill tonight
on the flipside, san antonio has homecourt this time around, which is huge
Im still rooting for okc, they arent dead yet. But if we are looking at a 2013 rematch, its pretty much a coin flip. The spurs can definitely beat them. They have been the best team this year and match up well. But miami's ceiling is still the highest in the league, theyve been coasting this whole year to peak at this very time, and it looks like they are.
Rashard lewis has largely been a useless pickup for the heat since he has been here, but he was big in this series. Best week in his heat career. Miami in the past likes to alternate haslem and battier in the startibg 5 depending on the matchup. But if lewis is knocking down shots he gives you the best of both worlds. He can guard bigs like david west (which battier cannot do) while still giving you the spacing on offense that they lack when they start haslem. Interested to see if he keeps starting in the finals. No chance if its okc, battier will play for kd. But if its the spurs they can play lewis on haslem
vogel just said "we lost to the michael jordan of our era"
At least resist it. They were like the corpse in a Sam Kinnison joke.
Vogel spoke postgame about lance "tugging on supermans cape." And really not showing much support, and he is usually super positive, like a tamer rex ryan. Even his own team cant seem to stand him. Hibbert hates him. West is upset with him too. Evan turner is not a fan (not like it matters what he thinks, but its hilarious to look back at the trade deadline when many talking heads thought he could swing the balance of power in the east).
I dont think hes back. Wonder who pays him. He will have suitors because hes an incredibly well rounded player even though hes an idiot
This is more of a theme than a coincidence.
And no sympathy for sa with the injury luck theyve gotten in relation to okc the past two years. Still hope parker can go gm 7 though, if okc can win tonight. Spurs hanging in
At this point, jsut shoot it every time, because thats OKC only chance.
spurs with a great 3rd quarter with no parker, going plus 17. Typical spurs.
I'm glad Kerr is so enameled and influenced by them...bodes well for GS.
Brooks, dumbass, give Durant the fucking ball.
Just NBA refs being NBA refs
He's shooting over 50% from the floor with 31/14.
Thats coming up tiny? holy fuck
but im a vet at this spur hating shit. Over a decade strong. The miami angle does play into this but id be rooting for okc regardless
That's the ballgame.
Let's Go Spurs in the finals. Won't be easy for them but they have home court and with 4 days rest now they should be fresh enough for the finals. Hopefully Parker is OK
credit to the spurs though. Duncan is still a boss
But of course...SA's star point guard injured again which is a huge advantage for Miami.
SA still by far the best team they will have to face but won't be the same if Parker is slowed down or out.
its a big deal. But among the reasons why sa matches up so well with miami, parker is down the list. It is duncans post presence against a team with weak interior defense, and the fact that they surround him with shooters (hope danny green doesnt have another goat finals shooting performance). Its the fact that leonard was basically built in a lab somewhere by scientists to possess the best blend of length, strength and lateral quickness to defend lebron among anyone walking the planet. Its the fact that they can beat the heat up on the boards.
If parker cant be 75 percent of himself its going to be very tough. But they dont need a vintage tony parker series. This is a duncan matchup
its a big deal. But among the reasons why sa matches up so well with miami, parker is down the list. It is duncans post presence against a team with weak interior defense, and the fact that they surround him with shooters (hope danny green doesnt have another goat finals shooting performance). Its the fact that leonard was basically built in a lab somewhere by scientists to possess the best blend of length, strength and lateral quickness to defend lebron among anyone walking the planet. Its the fact that they can beat the heat up on the boards.
If parker cant be 75 percent of himself its going to be very tough. But they dont need a vintage tony parker series. This is a duncan matchup
One of the ways to beat the Heat is to shoot the ball. A guy who got little playing time in OKC needs to be big against Miami. And that Belinelli. He had some success last year against the Heat, and IIRC, guarded Wade pretty well.
Just some food for thought.
Really hope Parker is ready to go - "this was an injury that has been bothering him prior to the game" - so this is a true head to head match up of the clear 2 best teams in the NBA.
And yes I know im insufferable at this point with the heat poms poms. So ill stop here and not going into a long description detailing injury breaks chicago got in the 91, 93 and 96 finals, because no one cares and im even starting to hate myself at this point for being such a fanboy
I was a huge Cowboys fan when Emmitt Smith was there because dude was such a baller. An all-time great.
GO COWBOYS
As much as I dislike the Heat, I'm fine with them winning as long as Parker is near 100%. I won't even want to watch the series if he isn't himself, it will be pointless.
Last year I was rooting for the Heat in the Finals, this year I'm rooting for the Spurs.
If I'm OKC, I'd fire Brooks. I'd also think about trading Westbrook. Russ is a spectacular talent but he's not the best style of PG for that offense and the injuries worry me a little. How much better is Westbrook really going to get? If anything, I think he'll only get worse because he relies on his GOAT athleticism from the PG position so much.
It's so hard to get equal value back in a trade like that. It's highly unlikely they'd find the right fit. But I'd definitely try and find the best offer I can for him.
D'antoni!!!
Westbrook is often forcing shots because its either him isolating on the outside or durant doing so... there is not a set play low post option that would be there if durant evolved that part of his offense.
Westbrook was the thunders best player this playoffs... they likely dont make it this far without him. He is far from the problem.
They also have no depth on the wing. a young player needs to develop.
But please can we stop searching for reasons why Durant isnt playing anymore... this post season its on him.
If i am the thunder i find a way to sign shaun livingston. He would be a great fit to allow westbrook more time off the ball, and adds to their defensive ability.
Everyone thinks of game 6 and 7 last year when reflecting on the series. But the driving force behind that 3 to 2 advantage san antonio took to miami was a highly improbable and likely not repeatable cinderella performance by danny green. He can stroke it and is undoubtedly a threat, but what we saw last year through 5 games was a historical aberration, and drastically changed the face of the series. Miami adjusted in game 6 and 7 and stayed home on shooters, but that spaced the floor for duncan who had two vintage nights. I expect miami to similarly try and play bosh 1 on 1 vs duncan with no help. That matchup is the key to the series. Bosh has had a ton of big games against duncan in the regular season, but was murdered in last years finals. Didnt provide much offense either and even went scoreless in game 7. He needs to play better this year and not get completely worked in his head to head with tim. If we are going to refer to bosh as a future hof, its not asking much of him to not get embarrassed by a 38 year old duncan while bosh is in his physical prime.
I dont have the advanced stats, just my eyes.
Game 7 he was fantastic.
of course there are differences between both teams this time around that could be argued as advantages both ways. Spurs have home court. Parker may be healthier. Theyre deeper and leonard is a year better. But if we are keeping score here, miami was the team who came the furthest from their ceiling last time around. Wade is a completely different player, dude was averaging 14 ppg on 43 percent shooting in the playoffs before the finals last year. Lebrons not gonna shoot 37 percent in the first 3 games again. They arent going to be at a rest disadvantage of 9 days to 2 as they were entering last year. Its unlikely they get hit with another unexpected blow like greens outburst, if for no other reason than what we saw last year has basically never happened before. They are also likely to get a better bosh than they got last time because he couldnt be worse. They also dealt with duncans best playoff series in about 6 years. Does he have another 19 and 12 in him every night?
This series is a coinflip. But its completely fair to acknowledge that the spurs had a lot of things break right to put them in a position where they were 5 seconds from winning. They played much closer to their ceiling last year than miami
16.7 ppg 38.9% 12.3 rebs 7.3 ast
game 4 to 7 (heat 3-1 record)
31.8 ppg 48.4 % 9.8 rebs 6.8 ast
And Lebron just looks like he's on a mission. Fuck da Heat so I hope he comes up short, but when you're that good things just start going your way naturally.
That said, Spurs winning wouldn't surprise me at all. Duncan with 5 rings would be cool...such a legendary player.
I know you are all LeBron all the time, yadda yadda, but I think your assessment is flat out biased and wrong in this case.
I don't care who wins since the NBA doesn't mean much to me at all in the grand scheme of things,which is why I won't intently watch if Parker isn't playing up to speed.
How about if you like both LeBron and Duncan? I can tell you aren't a Duncan fan.
I have a vast appreciate for LeBron, his accomplishments, and his overall image with kids off the court. I disliked his decision and the Heat culture that they've created. I make fun of LeBron from time to time because it's funny. It's fun to debate, for the most part which is why I occasionally post on this thread. I don't think I've even commented more than once or twice about any calls his playoffs (which is what a certain poster is failing at alluding to) including Heat games. Probably made a couple jokes here and there and that's about it.
But back to my main point here more to it than Danny Green. Ginobli was uncharacteristaclly bad that series, especially from 3, and SA only had 2 players make double digit 3s all series to Miami's 5. Had Ginobili been even 10% better as a whole, the series is over.
All that said, I'm taking Miami in 7. Just too much on the line for LeBron just like last year (though less pressure).
I love the guys without the self awareness to see their own biases casting stones
Yes, the sucking off of Lebron has reached the point where now he must be preemptively defended.
He's a sensational player and I've never said otherwise. My "bias" is that I don't like a bitter conference rival filled with ring chasers and with shitty fans. To return to a previous point, I also didn't like the early/mid 90s Cowboys. Did you? I mean they, like Lebron's Heat, were dominant (3 rings in 4 years) so maybe you did find them seductive.
Why? There is no doubt that having RW hurts KD's game. RW will always have an impressive stat line, but his bone head decisions and shot selection cripples OKC in just about every series.
I am going to go all nostalgia when Duncan makes some fundamental play, and just shake my head when he put his hands when he cries he didnt commit a foul.
The reason this series is great to me is that I could give a flyin' rats ass who wins/losses. But if Lebron has a shitty series and the Spurs win, I will refer to this series on his legacy. If Duncan loses again, retirement talk should be coming.
I am going to enjoy all the banter.... haha
I was a huge fan of Lebron on the Cavs, by the way. I just really do not like the Heat. That's my "bias" for which I'm being upbraided. Sue me. Also hate the Eagles.
theres really not much of a comparison. And if you think the road to two titles has been easy for lebron, you havent been paying attention. Because there has never been a player who had to shoulder a wider array of responsibilities during a similar run, and even if you want to bash the east he is still going through loaded teams in these finals. Powerhouses who emerged from the deepest conference in league history, with hall of famers all over the floor. The heat arent even favored in the finals. Werent in 2012 either
And for all the east bashing, you take lebron off the heat they dont come within an eyelash of winning it anyway like the bulls did with jordan playing baseball. They probably dont even get by your nets. Thats why its always rich when these competition arguments are formed under some pro jordan angle as you often do. This isnt the watered down expansion crazy 90s and lebron doesnt have the 2nd best wing player in basketball on his team, coupled with great interior defense and rebounding and the best coach ever
You keep bringing it back to Jordan, not me. I've never denied he had major help winning his rings. Not just Pippen, obviously. The Worm was still a monster in his mid 30s during the 2nd 3-peat. I do, however, think it's factual to state he wouldn't have been caught dead conspiring with other stars in the league. I think that's a knock against Lebron. Clearly you do not. w/e...opinions.
06- a pistons team who won it all in 04, went to a finals game 7 in 05, and was in the middle of a stretch of 6 straight conference finals appearances. Lebron took them 7 as a 21 year old with a bunch of nobodies
07- a spurs dynasty in progress in a series lebrons cavs had no business advancing to anyway, duncan gets his 4th ring vs a 22 year old lebron
08- a celtic team who was very arguably a top 12 to 15 team in league history, and arguably the GOAT defense. Won it all that year. Lebron struggled with his shot at times in that series but led an undermanned cavs team to a tight 7th game, where lebron scored 45 in a loss
09- lost to a very good magic team who admittedly is not historically memorable by any stretch. But you literally could not play better in the series than lebron did. Best performance in a best of 7 losing effort of all time. Averaged 38 pts, 8 boards and 8 assists and his 2009 playoff player efficiency rating is still the best in nba history
2010- a celtic team who came within a couple timely buckets of winning it all that year. Had a 13 point 2nd half lead in game 7 of the finals. Lebron had one terrible game in the series but was otherwise brilliant
2011- lebrons biggest failure. But the mavs did win it all that year and in the process swept the lakers in a postseason where l.a. was chasing a threepeat
2012- won a title against an okc team with durant, westbrook, harden and ibaka without homecourt, was a vegas underdog in the series against them. Okc had just ended the spurs 20 game win streak in the playoffs by beating them 4 straight to close the series
2013- beat a spurs team with a post peak but still first team all nba version of duncan, and the deepest supporting cast he has ever had.
2014- will play those same spurs who are 4 wins away from being put into the discussion as the best spurs team ever. Theyve never been this deep and well rounded, and duncan is still playing on an incredibly high level
I dont see any jay fiedler dolphins or chad pennington and mark sanchez jets there. No 8-8 charger teams. I could go on
this is pointless anyway because the sports are different as are their responsibilities
Over-defending LeBron is so 2012. He has a big boy resume now with the rings. Haters will say blah blah decision, but you are an idiot if you deny LeBron's greatness at this point. I like LeBron but I've always been a "Michael Jordan is the GOAT athlete in American Sports history" type of guy. There are a lot of candidates in that argument but I'd go Jordan.
I've always wanted to see LeBron succeed. He had the GOAT expectations of any NBA player since Kareem, and he exceeded them. I always respected how great he was and thought all the LeBron hate over the years was annoying. So I rooted for him to see the idiot haters eat shit.
But for the first time I'm starting to feel worried about Jordan's legacy. LeBron is mounting a legitimate run at the crown and the Jordan fanboy deep inside of me is finally starting to get scared. Peak vs. Peak is an argument that Jordan may forever have. And that will keep him in the mix no matter what. I'd take Peak Jordan over Peak LeBron. But Peak LeBron is clearly a Top 5 Peak ever, arguably Top 3. And with the way he is improving his offense in the half-court, who knows if he has reached his most lethal form yet.
For the first time those Michael Jordan retirements are looking important for his resume. He was the GOAT even with those 2 early retirements but LeBron looks like a player who could finally make MJ pay for ditching his team early a couple of times.
MJ: 11 full regular seasons with the Bulls (what Wiz years?)
LJ: 11 full regular seasons after 2014
After 11 seasons, MJ has the lead on LeBron. But LeBron isn't too far behind. BTW, LeBron isn't 30 yet.
LeBron's longevity could potentially be a huge edge for him over Jordan. He may never attain the Pure Peak title, but the overall GOAT title is starting to get within his reach.
So I'm rooting for the Spurs just to make things harder on him. But more than anything I'm just rooting for another classic 7 game Finals.
I find it a little odd that you don't get why people dislike Miami as a team. Nothing personal against the players (okay, maybe Battier) but in a Yankees-esque "evil empire" sort of way.
One can respect the hell out of Sydney Crosby and admit he's the best all around player since Lemieux while also hoping the Penguins fail. They're a bitter rival. Fuck em. Seems like a normal competitive streak to me rather than irrational "hate".
your bias is an equal but opposite force. Own it.
But, yes, I do think it's interesting to consider how some of these championships were won. I, for instance, think Eli's SB42 victory was way, way more impressive than Peyton's SB victory over the Bears. You would no doubt point out that such a rant stems from a raging and absurd bias, that rings are rings, and who cares how they were won. Just count em up.
I just disagree. However that in no way "trivializes" how great LBJ is as a player. Though I do think his brilliance would be better highlighted were he not in a disaster of a conference. Will be interesting to see how he fares against this Spurs team.
The NY area ratings will also be interesting. It would be embarrassing if the NHL lost in NY to the NBA. I'm guessing that won't be the case.
This really would've been interesting if Indiana made the Finals. The ratings would've suffered bigtime with no LeBron and Miami.
These NBA finals, outside of the first round, have been a complete snoozefest. Add in that the NHL has very little stoppage, you don't have the final 2 minutes of a game interrupted by 10 different commercial breaks.
The Finals will be entertaining to watch, but the flow of these games gets destroyed by TV and timeouts. You are rarely ever on the edge of your seat watching an NBA playoff game, mostly because the stoppages don't allow for it.
I know a big part of it is because minorities really dont play hockey and dont watch it but its just a much better playoff product. You are truly on the edge of your seat for 45 minutes watching an NHL playoff game because they have very little timeouts in a period.
The NHL will never compete with the NBA in ratings but I personally feel in the playoffs its a much better product to watch, especially considering in the NBA playoffs a lot of the time you can guess the finals teams before the playoffs or hell even season begins
Hockey's excitement is easy to get. That's the reason so many chicks who know nothing about sports prefer hockey to any other sport. There's always action going on. And Goals provide a moment that the NBA can't really match. (Football has TDs, Hockey has Goals, MLB has runs/Home Runs, NBA has nothing like that). But overall I find basketball to be the more enjoyable sport and the NBA playoffs to be the better product. But again, that's my opinion.
The NBA needs to fix the late game situation stuff. It really destroys the entertainment value of critical late game situations. A lot of games you have 5-6 timeouts in the final 2 minutes, sometimes more. It's absurd, they need to fix it somehow. I like the advancement of the ball, I think it provides more potential excitement, but maybe instead of 2 extra timeouts for a team, give them 2 extra "ball advancements". They can use them when they want to, but only get 2. A lot of teams call timeouts just to get the ball advanced, I know they like to talk strategy but these stoppages at the end of games have to stop. It makes the game painful to watch
I think the finals will make up for that and the first round was great but these haven't been the best NBA playoffs compared to years past
- OKC vs. LAC/SAS series were good not great, Game 7s would've helped a lot
But the NBA is about the best of the best. It's always been that way. The difference between the #1 and the #5 player in the NBA is often times just as big as the difference between the #5 and #20 player. That's what happens in a 5v5 sport where you play both sides for 80+% of the game as a star. So yea the NBA is predictable. But it gives us Heavyweight matches.
David vs. Goaliath is probably everyone's favorite matchup. And I love to see it too. But sometimes I just want to see Goliath vs. Goliath. If you want to see David vs. David you are an idiot lol.
On basketball, I'm curious what happens if LeBron wins his third straight. They've managed DWade's knee incredibly well this year (given his playoff performance). But overall, that's a losing battle. I don't think LeBron steps away from a squad that's just three-peated but that might be wishful thinking, since my secret hope is that he leaves after next year when a certain big city team is flush with cap room.
I've been following this year's French Open. But there's only one matchup that I truly want to see. It's the only matchup most of us really care about. Nadal vs. Djokovic. Those 2 are the class of the sport. A Final between those 2 would be an epic matchup.
But I think tennis has still remained relevant. Federer and Nadal were really big for the sport. And Djokovic turning into a historic player against all odds has made this era that much more interesting. Murray is also a nice sidestory.
The way tennis works just reminds me of the way the NBA works.
these are two differet weight classes
Luke that time when he won the Finals Most inVisible Player award?
But I think tennis has still remained relevant. Federer and Nadal were really big for the sport. And Djokovic turning into a historic player against all odds has made this era that much more interesting. Murray is also a nice sidestory.
The way tennis works just reminds me of the way the NBA works.
Substance wise Osi, you are the best poster on BBI. You can break down the NFL, NBA, MLB, Tennis, and Nascar. That's impressive.
1. How much will SA having home court this year matter?
2. Will the new 2-2-1-1-1 format have much of an impact, if so, who will benefit more from it?
Substance wise Osi, you are the best poster on BBI. You can break down the NFL, NBA, MLB, Tennis, and Nascar. That's impressive.
Can he break down Nascar as well as this guy?
NASCAR coach reveals winning strategy: drive fast - ( New Window )
I agree a lot with what Mook said about LeBron being the leagues meal ticket, but that is nothing new. The league has always been dependent of stars, it's a star league. If the NBA ever went through a drought with little star power, ratings would take a huge hit. The only sport that is immune from that though is the NFL, so it isn't any wild revelation.
However it is a little annoying at the same time to see guys get chosen as the next so and so based on a sily highlight reel
I'm really interested in the inevitable "LeBron Wars" that are going to occur on this thread during the Finals. We're at a point where certain anti-LeBron opinions are just too stupid to even debate. So hopefully the LeBron discussions should be of higher quality than in the past couple of Finals.
My one suggestion. Please limit the amount of times you use the word "Legacy" in a post during these Finals. I use that word a ton too so I'm not talking about anyone in particular. Let's just worry about this year before we worry about legacies. I really hope we get another classic 7 game series. Spurs need this game more tonight.
Feels like a 30 pt triple double game for LeBron tonight.
I like your prediction. I agree!
Agree completely. Just awful to watch. The NBA has become a farce with these idiots.
lebron off court= miami minus 29
wade on court= miami plus 29
wade off court= miami plus 63
bosh on court= plus 27
bosh off court= miami plus 65
on/off numbers in small samples can be very misleading, but this is nuts. They are a minus 38 with lebron off the floor vs indy and san antonio. Theyre getting skullfucked whenever spo tries to buy him rest.
no one has had to ever shoulder a wider variety of responsibilities and general load during a potential dynasty run. The plus minus stuff is the least of that and im honestly not a huge plus minus guy
Are you talking NBA only? There are only a few "dynasties" to even compare him to: LA, Chicago, San Antonio. Unless you're going back decades. And none of these superstars - Jordan, Shaq, Duncan - had the chance to prove they could carry like James. Safe bet they could have (Jordan without a doubt).
If you're including other sports, it's a complete apples & oranges comparison since no superstar, even a QB, can do it (largely) by himself like a single player can in the NBA. And although he could never get them over the top because he had virtually no support, Hasek carried Buffalo every bit as much as Lebron carries Miami, insofar as you can compare the 2 sports.
It's probably sufficient to effusively praise Lebron using salient statistics without also needing to elevate him above all those other...well, three...dynasties.
You can't just say Jordan could've done it without a doubt. It took him for Pippen to hit his prime and the Pistons to exit theirs for the Bulls to be a real title contender.
LeBron means more to this Heat team than Jordan meant to either 3 peat Bulls teams. And it isn't really that close.
He deserves the praise, no doubt. I'm saying it's strange to compare apples to oranges and act like it's a notable point. The only apt comparison I can think of is the aforementioned Hasek and that's another sport and wasn't a dynasty.
if i were to go MOM overanalyze last nights game... i would give the break down of lebron up until Leonard got in foul trouble and then talk about how unimpressive it is to beat Diaw who has a poor defensive ranking in the 2nd quarer of finals games when pace adjusted on Sunday evening start times in the mid west.
lebron was awesome last night. the games will keep getting better. we have a great series going. can we avoid the overanalysis until the series is over.... if the series ended after 2 games last year we would be singing a different tune.
thread is now full of either 1) hockey whiners complaining abou basketball. 2) angry ranger fans who are knicks fans hating on basketball because the knicks have sucked 3) lebron slobber fest.
no need to lobber about something that was very clear last night, especially with he jumper going... hes the best player in the league and it aint close.
I am not ready to say how much Lebron carries himself among Russell, Jordan, etc. He gets a shit ton of help from other players, D Wade still goes for about 20 a series in the finals. Guys like Battier, Miller, Chalmers, Haslem, etc have hit huge shots. Bosh was big last night.
From an individual game stand point, Lebron has delivered (except for 2011 finals, but thats another story). But every game he usually gets help from 1-2 role players. Last night it was Rashard Lewis who hit the big shots. Lebron is undoubtedly the best player in the league. I just dont like when people say he is doing it alone (even though last night in the 3rd quarter he was pretty damn awesome).
MJ, Magic, Russell, and Lebron dont win without help. If Ray Allen's 3 misses or SA made free throws last year, he would be stuck with 1 title. But with the help of the role players, he is looking good for a 3 peat.
lebron off court= miami minus 29
wade on court= miami plus 29
wade off court= miami plus 63
bosh on court= plus 27
bosh off court= miami plus 65
on/off numbers in small samples can be very misleading, but this is nuts. They are a minus 38 with lebron off the floor vs indy and san antonio. Theyre getting skullfucked whenever spo tries to buy him rest.
I am with MoM on this stat, but I have to throw a wrench in there. If that number with him off the floor in the playoffs is true... then it isn't that bad. Miami was -17 at the end of the game 1 when Miami was up 2 when lebronbleft for good with cramps. SA then outscored them by 17. So if you take that 17 away, its only been -12 for the entire playoffs. Which isn't as bad as it usually is.
Just a little nitpicking but Joe is usually right when lebron leaves the game, the Heat do get crushed.
- he made the decision to get a ton of help
- fans hated him for jumping to a superteam
- his rings somehow aren't considered as precious because he jumped to a superteam
All that said and the Heat "Superteam" is actually a meh supporting cast for a title winner. They're a .500 team without LeBron. And that's only if Wade can stay healthy carrying the load.
It's just really weird with LeBron. His haters shit on him for going to play with a ton of help. But his defenders point out that he really doesn't have much help.
Cleveland fans, of course and I think justifiably. The absurd Decision was a prime time, choreographed "fuck you" not just to Cavs fans but to a downtrodden city which has little else to get excited about (and which in a very real way depended on him economically). Why, exactly, could he not just have quietly signed on the dotted line in Miami? I still don't get it...
He chose the spectacle and chose to say douchey things like "take my talents" and, after the Dallas loss where he sucked, "All the people that was [sic] rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today."
Love his game. It's impossible not to. But the "hate" is rooted in more than that.
So any player that isn't a Knick you hate? LeBron made the right decision and I hope he stays in Miami and goes for the 4 peat if they beat SAS.
If he caps this series off we are looking at a goat short list playoff run. Never before seen efficiency from a volume scorer in a postseason.
Although Duncan's 0/2 at the line in that crucial period....inexcusable.
Duncan always gets passes because hes not threatening any legacies that people hold dear
Winning early and often in a tiny market had a lot to do with his career.
Tim Duncan has had every bit the career that Larry Bird or Magic Johnson had. He is the MVP of a Finalist at the age of 38. He DESERVES to get passes at this point.
A lot of people give LeBron a pass for his 1st Finals performance. That was a historically poor playoff series for a star scorer in the Finals and it's never mentioned by LeBron haters because of his age. Age is why Duncan isn't getting too much hate now because he is clearly past his prime.
BTW the main reason LeBron sucked in that Finals? Tim Duncan's presence inside forcing LeBron to take contested outside shots with Bruce Bowen all over him.
LeBron is far more hated than Duncan ever was... but
LeBron is far more loved than Duncan ever was
LeBron is far more talked about than Duncan ever was
LeBron is the most popular athlete in America
Duncan never approached that status despite similar performance
The '07 Cavs had no business beating them in that Finals. But that being said, LeBron did have a poor series even taking that into consideration. And it gets overlooked because of his age and situation.
no one expects 03 duncan today. But hes still a beast, and playing in a matchup that lends itself more to him beasting than against anyone in the league. If they win this series, people wont treat his ring as any less deserved than lebrons even though the load is fractional to lebrons. When he goes out and drops 30 and dominate the first 30 minutes of a finals closeout game last year and then not score a point in the final 23 including ot, I think its fair to call him out on the disappearance. When he has 18 early to mid 3rd last night and doesnt score again, same deal
Duncan has already won four rings and is a surefire HoF'er, so has little nothing left to prove.
Brodeur has had some brutal stretches in recent years. It doesn't get much attention because he plays in Newark and because he is a proven all-time great with an unquestionably great career to call out.
Even if you contend it's "always been this way." Well...he was winning so often and in such a dominant fashion that he never really had a Lebron v Dallas moment in his career.
I am disappointed in you Joe. I called him right out after the game for a miserable last 3 quarters. He was absolutely dreadful and one of the main reasons they lost.
But I am not national media :(
Duncan has already won four rings and is a surefire HoF'er, so has little nothing left to prove.
Brodeur has had some brutal stretches in recent years. It doesn't get much attention because he plays in Newark and because he is a proven all-time great with an unquestionably great career to call out.
Even if you contend it's "always been this way." Well...he was winning so often and in such a dominant fashion that he never really had a Lebron v Dallas moment in his career.
He should also have to answer to the criticism that San Antonio has NEVER defended the crown successfully. There's something to be said to win the Finals, come in next season with a huge target on your back by the rest of the league, and still being able to win the championship. It kind of highlights your dominance during that stretch. To be fair to Duncan, I think 3 of those playoff exits following a championship were foiled by the Lakers.
1) hockey fans hating
2) rangers fans angry his knocks fans angry thus hating
3) lebron slurp fest on performances we all saw and appreciated as awesome but need it regurgitated in every odd stat
4) hating Tim Duncan for a strange strange strange reason
Awesome! Another great finals and it's not even discussed here
I dont hate tim duncan. Not as a player or as a person. Everything I said was completely accurate though.
They could still very much lose this series but I like where they are more today than last year at this time
They should have been slammed for choking away the finals last year, which would have made LeBron 1-2 in the finals and subjected him to a lot more scrutiny then he is under right now.
Theres never been a player who impacted the game decisively more at the peak of his powers. The fact that the ring count has begun to reflect that level of play doesnt make him any better individually, it just gives mouthbreathers less to pick at. Had they won last years finals or not, he was the best player on the floor in the series decisively, even while struggling the first 3 games. You can call it a spurs choke all you want, I can also call it 5 of the best quarters ever strung together consecutively in finals play by lebron in the 4th quarter of game 6 and all of game 7. People who only want to recall the last 23 seconds of that game need to watch that game a second time. That was once a 15 point lead in that second half erased by one man going into god mode, scoring or assisting on 23 straight and shutting down parker on the other end. Dropping 30 with a triple double, something done just 3 times in finals history before it
Wade and Bosh.
In all honesty, hes better going off to Cleveland with Kyrie. Cleveland should trade the number 1 pick and look for a Love/Noah type player. Imagien Noah with those 2/
Noah
Thompson
Lebron
Waiters
Irving
Yowza.
Don't put anything past Riley.
I think hes going to stay in miami though, and unless riley has something up his sleeve, I think he will regret it
If Wade opts out they aren't going to then kick him to the curb, and they shouldn't. He'd be doing them a big favor by opting out so you can't just then tell him to f off, if he opts out he will already know what kind of deal he's getting from them
I hope there's a rebalancing in the league this off-season. Would be great to see a more competitive East. Hopefully Rose can actually stay healthy.
There is no upside to opting out besides taking less money to stay with Heat. He's not opting out to get more money elsewhere, because he won't get it. Chances are even 2 years from now he'll still be able to get 5-6 million from someone if not more. The ONLY way he would come out ahead by opting out and going somewhere else versus staying in Miami and playing out the final 2 years is if he has to retire after the next 2 years, and even then he would still probably break even.
On another note I dont know who the hell to name mvp of this finals for sa because you can go many directions, and none of them are having close to the series lebron is. I dont think we could see the mvp go to a player on a losing team in the 21st century, but there is precedent for it both in the nba finals and the superbowl. People may want to poo poo lebron and his 70 plus percent true shooting percentage because of the margins of some of these games early, but game 4 was his only down first half in the series. There is no spur playing nearly as well as him. This series is like the nba equivalent of a scene from nat geo wild where a cape buffalo is fighting off a pride of 12 lions clawing all over his back
Lebron stunk in the first half last night being passive when it mattered and compiled when it was a blowout. Game 3 was stat compiling as well with a solid minus 20 worst on the team.
He was awesome in game 2, MVP best in the work caliber play. Otherwise he has not stood out as even sniffing an m v p on a losing team.
You cant dismiss lebrons 3rd quarter last night as compiling during garbage time, because if any other heat player could make a shot or if they could somehow ever string stops together, there was still plenty of time to make it a game. He was the only guy playing. When his team is outclassed to the tune of 20 point early deficits, thats not on him. He didnt have a great first half last night. He did have a great first half in game 3 and that did not stop a similar beatdown.
there is not 1 spur having close to the series lebron is individually. This is about the most efficient shooting from a volume scorer ever in a finals. There is not 1 player who ever lived who would change the outcome of the series in his place
anyway, hes not going to win mvp. But whoever does will have had the clearly inferior series. This is about the most balanced attack weve seen in the finals. A spur will get it by default, but its very tough to pick one
The spurs are uniquely built and a true team in the truest sense of the word. They are dominating a finals series without a single individual playing on an all nba caliber level.
An individual basketball player has more influence than in any other sport, but it still takes a team effort to win. And right now, Lebron's supporting cast just isn't good enough to beat a team playing at a level of team basketball that I have never seen before in my life.
I'm not saying this Spurs team is the best team I've ever seen-- because I think other teams with multiple stars in their primes were better. But this Spurs team plays better TEAM basketball than I can remember. If you're a coach at any level, this Finals is what you show your players to teach them about a team's potential when the players work together. It's beautiful. I keep looking to spot Steve Nash in black and silver.
I despise the Heat, but watching the non-Lebrons get destroyed only elevates my opinion of Lebron's value.
It's definitely a unique Finals MVP vote.
Some player on the Spurs certainly could put up far bigger numbers, but it would likely be to the team's detriment and caused by taking less optimal chances than what they are doing by keeping the ball in constant motion until a player is open.
Leonard has been fantastic, and the Heat are just not capable of handling another Spur who can continually score. But how much of Leonard's offensive success can be attributed to the opportunity of the Heat focusing on Duncan/Parker/Ginobli as well as the excellent passing by Diaw to make it even easier for Leonard?
34.5 MPG
6.5 PPG
.385 FG%
1 block
If you saw those numbers for a PF you'd think he was an awful player. But he makes such an impact in other ways that he's a net positive for that team.
paul, theres not a top 12 player on that team. Maybe not top 15. They didnt even have a player average 30 minutes a game this season, the first team in nba history to ever have that happen. Not just the first team to do that and win a title, the first team to do that period. They are incredibly deep, and obviously very talented, but their top end talent is definitely weaker than most title teams. That doesnt make them any less impressive a champion, or any less great of a team. But the composition of the team is an outlier among champs
miami has never had rim protection defensively and at this point are no longer athletic enough on the perimeter to compensate. This is an old team. The spurs are forcing them to rotate a ton with their ball movement and the defensive rotations are always two steps late leading to open looks. They dont cover the ground they used to and its bleeding great looks all over the place
AnotherGiantsFan : 6/5/2014 9:18 pm : link : reply
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I give miami about a 5 percent chance. If they somehow ever got game 5 id probably bump that to about 30 percent
I would give it to Leonard right now, with Diaw a close 2nd. Duncan would be probably be around 4th. He has rebounded well (what big doesnt against the Spurs?) but offensively, he has been meh for 3 games now.
One thing about the heat I don't get is why they can't use Bosh more effectively. He was an elite offensive player in Toronto, and I don't think he was an empty stats kind of guy. Scoring wise he was basically a prime KG level player. With Wade fading, he should be the clear cut #2 guy and putting up 20 PPG. Is it just him playing out of position at center? Does his game not pair well with LeBron's (certainly should fit better than Wade, no?).
lebron leads the heat in every categorie listed
chris, you also have to account for the fact that san antonio has better than league average defense, so playing to their regular season o rating against them would require an above ordinary effort. Obviously it is possible for them to play better offensively though, im just saying theyre getting beat defensively
Shaq in the 94 playoffs was pretty awesome too, but they got swept. Hakeem was clearly the MVP, but he didnt come close to stopping Shaq either.
lebron leads the heat in every categorie listed
That is a fantastic summation. Thanks for sharing.
But it'll take more than LeBron and the Big 3. The Heat role players have been slaughtered by the Spurs role players in this series, those other Heat players need to step up.