if Paul George improved on his O marginally from last year, he'd be a better player than Melo given his D. (I mean there were some games last year where Paul George gave LeBron fits, not to mention the trouble he gave Melo (who was injured, of course).
If Paul George maintains his current play, Melo's not in his stratosphere.
did the worst job of any defender last year on Lebron in the playoffs. Luc Mbah a Moute, Jimmy Butler and Kawhai Leonard all held up better than he did. He's a great defender but he needs to hit the weight room, because right now that matchup gives him fits. Lebrons postgame was probably never as impactful in a playoff series as it was last year against Indy
You're right Joe. Just checked the box scores. I remembered LBJ having monster games 1 and 7, but he played well throughout the series. I was conflating singular moments when George's athleticism and length made outside shooting tough for LBJ with playing good D overall.
That said there were moments during the Knicks series where George was an absolute terror on Melo.
guards him Wednesday, even though I got a feeling he will put Luol on him. Sucks George isnt a SG anymore, because he would probably be the top SG, but barely crack the top 5 SF.
Its going to be war at 7:00 Wednesday Night. Just want to see progression from Derrick. less TOs, better defense, and hit a jumper or two.
And im not the biggest Melo fan. That is subject to change though. Maybe George takes a jump in year 4 similar to the two guys he is often compared to did (Tmac, Pippen). Neither is the perfect comparison, he won't ever be the scorer Tmac is. He won't ever be the classic point forward like Pippen. But he can be some sort of blend of the two
At the moment though, Melo is just that much better offensively that its hard to overlook. And while George is better defensively, perimeter defense isn't as valuable or impactful on team defense as big man D is. Certainly not valuable enough to make up for the significant gap in their ability on offense. Although that gap appears to be closing, its still early
Anthony Davis is the other. I've never driven a bandwagon this hard before. But I think Davis could end up better than either Duncan or KG. Which would make him a GOAT candidate. It's hard to talk with his cock in my mouth but I'm telling you this guy is going to be a legend among legends. If this was the stock market the time to buy stock is right fucking now.
Anthony Davis is the other. I've never driven a bandwagon this hard before. But I think Davis could end up better than either Duncan or KG. Which would make him a GOAT candidate. It's hard to talk with his cock in my mouth but I'm telling you this guy is going to be a legend among legends. If this was the stock market the time to buy stock is right fucking now.
I like it when people make bold statements like these.
I dont agree, but it will be fun to tease us if you are right, or take some jabs when you are wrong.
the only thing I could see derailing his career. He's gotten stronger but he's still a fairly skinny 20 year old kid playing against grown ass men. He also falls down a little too often, kind of D-Wade esque. He needs to get that little issue fixed.
But if he stays healthy, I don't see anything stopping this freight train.
Not saying he's there yet. But he's got a more complete skillset than either KG or Duncan and I think he could easily be better than both of those guys in his prime. Being better than Duncan/KG means you're a GOAT candidate level player.
I don't have him on my fantasy team or anything like that. I didn't even do fantasy basketball this year. I'm not a Kentucky college bball fan and I dislike Calipari. This is a totally unbiased prediction.
We've already established that hes clearly better than the worst case comparison painted by some of his detractors during his draft process... He's no Marcus Camby. Not to take anything away from Camby who was a fine player. But Anthony Davis at 20 is better than he ever was. Much more gifted shooter already.
His weird background probably helped his skillset in a ton of ways, he was like a 6'0" guard and then sprung about 10 inches in 18 months (maybe not exact, but its something similar to that). This isn't a big man who came to basketball because he was big. This is a guy who formed the foundation of his skillset when he was an average sized PG and then had an insane growth spurt. You can easily see that influence on his game
who's basically a 20-10 player with less than one full NBA season and one college season under his belt. And this is without full physical development and with more feel for the offensive side of the game than Dwight ever had. I always felt that a lot of the critics who thought AD could only at best be a second banana were way off. They might still be right, but I doubt it.
Junior year HS: No name Guard prospect with limited future
Senior year HS: Becomes #1 overall prospect in 6 month span due to growth spurt
Frosh yr College: Wins National Player of the Year, Final 4 MVP + title, #1 statistical offensive player in nation, #1 statistical defensive player in nation
Rookie NBA: Best PER for teenager in NBA history despite battling injuries
2nd yr NBA: Should finish around 18/10 on 50+ FG% and 80+ FT% with all world D as long as he stays healthy
...
...
...
7th yr NBA: yep
was it really that much better than his 08 season when he had a better TS% and eFG%? He also had a better TS% in 06. And in terms of raw stats, he scored more points per game in 07.
The growth spurt happened even faster than i thought
8 inches in one year. I imagine all 6'10" ish sized guys all had a crazy spurt somewhere along the way in a condensed time frame. But I have a tough time thinking the majority of them weren't bigger than 6'2" as late as their high school junior year. It's a crazy background
Robinson was even more of a physical freak than Davis. Outside of Lebron, Shaq, and Wilt it's tough to think of a better pure athlete who played in the league than Robinson. But Davis has a more diverse and complete skillset than Robinson.
gave Melo a much more mature game last year than ever before. He may have put up similar looking stats on the surface in Denver, but he has never had a season on the level of 2013 before. Remains to be seen if it was a one year blip or if it's a real trend. Because the better shooting from downtown and better passing are tangible improved skills, I tend to believe it's not a blip in the radar but that Melo just got better.
is a tremendous talent and yes... this season he's looked every bit the part, but I'd settle down comparing him to a legend like Duncan. I can see the reason why based on talent, though.
but now is the most impressive time to do it if you're right. Anthony Davis at the moment is a hella talented 2nd year player who didn;t even win ROY, and has put together a nice three games to start his 2nd season. If you're calling your shot with him right now, and you're right, thats crazy impressive. Its one thing to like him, its another to go that far and throw around names like Duncan
"he has never had a season on the level of 2013 before"
Again, he's had seasons where he shot better, got to the line more, and rebounded better. His teams also matched or exceeded last year's win total 2 times. You mention he got better shooting the 3, but he shot a similar % from 3 in 2011 and 2009. Only thing that changed last year was he shot more of them. None of this screams "career year" to me.
What year would you say was better than 2013? You're naming random years where he was better in a select category here or there, but in totality I think 2013 is clearly his best. Not in a trounce-every-other-season-by-a-landslide kinda way like Elton Brand in 2006 or anything. But still pretty inarguably his best season
(which it may have been) and his "career season by far" are two different things. He's a star in this league because of his prowess as an offensive player - and he's had seasons where he shot the ball better, got to the line more, and his teams had similar success. I don't just don't see where last year was this big outlier for him as a player.
Just got an e-mail from my college saying that they are offering our school a "special" 20$ tickets for the Nets-Jazz game. I hate the Nets because of Pierce and Garnett, but I think Prokhorov is the best owner in the NBA and hope he manages to get a solid Brooklyn fanbase within the next few years.
than what was his best? People may want to talk about 09 because the team made a deeper conference final run, but that was Melo's worst regular season since he became Melo
volume of what? His usage was it's highest last year (35.6), but he's had 2 years of 33+. He also had one season of more shots and points per game. The one big uptick was in threes attempted per game, but as stated before he's been at a similar percentage in 2 previous years.
like PER and win shares per 48, 2013 blows every other Melo season out of the water. Those are the two advanced stats i pay the most attention to, and they are admittedly flawed. PER doesn't take into account defense, so it probably artificially inflates all of Melo's seasons equally. It's not like he was some defensive stopper in Denver. And win shares if anything underrate the impact of a franchise player (There is no way Lebron was only worth 18-20 wins to those Cav teams, and no way Melo was only worth 9.5 for last years Knicks)
its not like Dana Barros 1995 or anything. Or Elton Brand 2006 like i mentioned. Its not like 2013 just completely shits on every other year. Its rare for that to occur in an nba career trajectory anyway. That happens in baseball and football all the time though
For all the hype that Melo has had over his career, this is a guy that only finished in the Top 10 of the MVP vote once in his career before 2013 despite making the playoffs every single year of his career. This is a guy who advanced past the 1st round only once despite having pretty damn talented teams around him (not a T-Mac or KG situation where they were surrounded by crap). When Melo was traded with the Knicks, most people viewed him as somewhere between the 10th-15th best player in the league.
There's a reason why the league suddenly voted Melo 3rd in the MVP vote and why he finally broke the Top 10 in PER in emphatic fashion by finishing 4th. Sure part of that had to do with down years from certain superstars, but the majority of it had to do with Melo developing a much more team oriented game.
His stats don't even tell the whole story. Melo's passing was so much better last year than any other year before. He's a guy who was a Barkley-like pound the rock over and over again player who took 10 seconds before making decisions on whether to shoot or pass. Last year with the Knicks everything was quick with Melo. He made decisions really fast and he probably led the league in hockey assists last year. The Knicks' 3pt shooting barrage had a lot to do with Melo's decision making. With previous versions of Melo, the Knicks offense doesn't have nearly the year it had last year.
His stats don't even tell the whole story. Melo's passing was so much better last year than any other year before. He's a guy who was a Barkley-like pound the rock over and over again player who took 10 seconds before making decisions on whether to shoot or pass. Last year with the Knicks everything was quick with Melo. He made decisions really fast and he probably led the league in hockey assists last year. The Knicks' 3pt shooting barrage had a lot to do with Melo's decision making. With previous versions of Melo, the Knicks offense doesn't have nearly the year it had last year.
I'm a little surprised that there isn't a hockey assist stat anywhere at this point for basketball. I really want to see where Melo ranked last year. Melo still has this stigma of not being selfish/not a good passer, and this stat would put a lot of that to rest IMO.
He's so awesome and I respect him so much. He's simply a badass. Just a straight up serial killer on the court.
I have a little bit more trouble saying Davis will be better than Duncan than I do Davis being better than KG. Because Duncan's low post game was so diverse and creative and dominant. Garnett had a good low post game but it wasn't anything special like Duncan's.
I don't know if Davis can develop that Duncan-like low post game, I don't think we will. But he is a much better PnR player. And he does have low post skills because of his great touch near the hoop. Plus the big reason I'd say his ceiling trumps Duncan is because he is a better shooter already. Duncan is a great player but his jumper is a little inconsistent and led to many low efficiency games for him. You can look at his FT shooting over his career and see all the ups and downs. Career .693 FT shooter.
Davis has a .767 career FT mark so far and is 19/20 from the line this year while making a ton of outside jumpers with good form. He's closer to KG as a shooter than he is Duncan. Except he's already a much better finisher and PnR player than KG ever was.
I'll chill with the Davis talk for now and let it play out. But I just think so highly of him and his future.
A running NBA thread, similar to the P90X threads. where we just talk about random, general stuff throughout the league.
Lebron's biggest game of the year thusfar, 35 pts 8 rebs 8 ast on 13/20 FG
Paul George with another encouraging night and the Pacers are 4-0. 31 Pts, 10 Reb, 4 Ast on 12/18
Monta Ellis's is ballin for the Mavs this year. Maybe being with a solid organization on a team with vet leadership rubs off.
Brook Lopez 27 pts in 25 minutes in a Nets blowout win. It's early but KG looks like crap early this season, hes admitted it himself. Only played 14 minutes tonight, dont know if he got hurt or what
Anthony Davis 17 pts 11 reb and 5 blks. Rough shooting night (5/14).
Eric Bledsoe had an excellent game for the Suns. I love seeing him get a shot to run his own team now. Entering tonight he was averaging 22 pts and 9 ast, shooting the ball poorly (40%), but going 10 for 12 from the floor tonight will do a lot to boost that.
If Paul George maintains his current play, Melo's not in his stratosphere.
Still early but the difference between the two doesn't seem like it will be nearly as wide as I first thought.
Indiana vs. Chicago is a playoff matchup that I desperately need to see this season. It would be a 7 game bloodbath.
That said there were moments during the Knicks series where George was an absolute terror on Melo.
Its going to be war at 7:00 Wednesday Night. Just want to see progression from Derrick. less TOs, better defense, and hit a jumper or two.
If this spike holds up, he's got the 3 spot on lockdown.
At the moment though, Melo is just that much better offensively that its hard to overlook. And while George is better defensively, perimeter defense isn't as valuable or impactful on team defense as big man D is. Certainly not valuable enough to make up for the significant gap in their ability on offense. Although that gap appears to be closing, its still early
If Melo takes 1 step back offensively and George jumps 2 steps offensively, George would be the better player.
Anthony Davis is the other. I've never driven a bandwagon this hard before. But I think Davis could end up better than either Duncan or KG. Which would make him a GOAT candidate. It's hard to talk with his cock in my mouth but I'm telling you this guy is going to be a legend among legends. If this was the stock market the time to buy stock is right fucking now.
Anthony Davis is the other. I've never driven a bandwagon this hard before. But I think Davis could end up better than either Duncan or KG. Which would make him a GOAT candidate. It's hard to talk with his cock in my mouth but I'm telling you this guy is going to be a legend among legends. If this was the stock market the time to buy stock is right fucking now.
I like it when people make bold statements like these.
I dont agree, but it will be fun to tease us if you are right, or take some jabs when you are wrong.
But if he stays healthy, I don't see anything stopping this freight train.
In real life? Lulz
Not saying he's there yet. But he's got a more complete skillset than either KG or Duncan and I think he could easily be better than both of those guys in his prime. Being better than Duncan/KG means you're a GOAT candidate level player.
His weird background probably helped his skillset in a ton of ways, he was like a 6'0" guard and then sprung about 10 inches in 18 months (maybe not exact, but its something similar to that). This isn't a big man who came to basketball because he was big. This is a guy who formed the foundation of his skillset when he was an average sized PG and then had an insane growth spurt. You can easily see that influence on his game
Senior year HS: Becomes #1 overall prospect in 6 month span due to growth spurt
Frosh yr College: Wins National Player of the Year, Final 4 MVP + title, #1 statistical offensive player in nation, #1 statistical defensive player in nation
Rookie NBA: Best PER for teenager in NBA history despite battling injuries
2nd yr NBA: Should finish around 18/10 on 50+ FG% and 80+ FT% with all world D as long as he stays healthy
...
...
...
7th yr NBA: yep
2010 22.2
2007 22.1
2006 22.0
In terms of efficiency rating last year was Melo's best by about 12% better than the next closest. Not an insignificant amount
2004 ----- 14th -- 52nd -- 1st Rd Exit
2005 ----- 0 ----- 54th -- 1st Rd Exit
2006 ----- 0 ----- 18th -- 1st Rd Exit
2007 ----- 15th -- 17th -- 1st Rd Exit
2008 ----- 13th -- 16th -- 1st Rd Exit
2009 ----- 0 ----- 24th -- WCF Appearance
2010 ----- 6th --- 11th -- 1st Rd Exit
2011 ----- 0 ----- 16th -- 1st Rd Exit
2012 ----- 0 ----- 21st -- 1st Rd Exit
2013 ----- 3rd --- 4th --- 2nd Rd Exit
For all the hype that Melo has had over his career, this is a guy that only finished in the Top 10 of the MVP vote once in his career before 2013 despite making the playoffs every single year of his career. This is a guy who advanced past the 1st round only once despite having pretty damn talented teams around him (not a T-Mac or KG situation where they were surrounded by crap). When Melo was traded with the Knicks, most people viewed him as somewhere between the 10th-15th best player in the league.
There's a reason why the league suddenly voted Melo 3rd in the MVP vote and why he finally broke the Top 10 in PER in emphatic fashion by finishing 4th. Sure part of that had to do with down years from certain superstars, but the majority of it had to do with Melo developing a much more team oriented game.
His stats don't even tell the whole story. Melo's passing was so much better last year than any other year before. He's a guy who was a Barkley-like pound the rock over and over again player who took 10 seconds before making decisions on whether to shoot or pass. Last year with the Knicks everything was quick with Melo. He made decisions really fast and he probably led the league in hockey assists last year. The Knicks' 3pt shooting barrage had a lot to do with Melo's decision making. With previous versions of Melo, the Knicks offense doesn't have nearly the year it had last year.
I'm a little surprised that there isn't a hockey assist stat anywhere at this point for basketball. I really want to see where Melo ranked last year. Melo still has this stigma of not being selfish/not a good passer, and this stat would put a lot of that to rest IMO.
I have a little bit more trouble saying Davis will be better than Duncan than I do Davis being better than KG. Because Duncan's low post game was so diverse and creative and dominant. Garnett had a good low post game but it wasn't anything special like Duncan's.
I don't know if Davis can develop that Duncan-like low post game, I don't think we will. But he is a much better PnR player. And he does have low post skills because of his great touch near the hoop. Plus the big reason I'd say his ceiling trumps Duncan is because he is a better shooter already. Duncan is a great player but his jumper is a little inconsistent and led to many low efficiency games for him. You can look at his FT shooting over his career and see all the ups and downs. Career .693 FT shooter.
Davis has a .767 career FT mark so far and is 19/20 from the line this year while making a ton of outside jumpers with good form. He's closer to KG as a shooter than he is Duncan. Except he's already a much better finisher and PnR player than KG ever was.
I'll chill with the Davis talk for now and let it play out. But I just think so highly of him and his future.
Off the top of my head, Tim Duncan is ironically a guy who probably ranks up there with anyone on the career hockey assists list.
Lebron's biggest game of the year thusfar, 35 pts 8 rebs 8 ast on 13/20 FG
Paul George with another encouraging night and the Pacers are 4-0. 31 Pts, 10 Reb, 4 Ast on 12/18
Monta Ellis's is ballin for the Mavs this year. Maybe being with a solid organization on a team with vet leadership rubs off.
Brook Lopez 27 pts in 25 minutes in a Nets blowout win. It's early but KG looks like crap early this season, hes admitted it himself. Only played 14 minutes tonight, dont know if he got hurt or what
Anthony Davis 17 pts 11 reb and 5 blks. Rough shooting night (5/14).
Eric Bledsoe had an excellent game for the Suns. I love seeing him get a shot to run his own team now. Entering tonight he was averaging 22 pts and 9 ast, shooting the ball poorly (40%), but going 10 for 12 from the floor tonight will do a lot to boost that.