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Is it fair to legitimately worry about Eli at this point?

Ten Ton Hammer : 11/10/2013 4:08 pm
Either secretly hurt, shell-shocked from this horrid offensive line, or just having a terrible individual season, I'm finding it hard to watch.

And yes, they won, which they needed to, but the mistakes and poor throws are alarming.
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Eli looked like he  
Gmen703 : 11/10/2013 4:54 pm : link
Got his bell rung on that pick 6. His head hit the ground pretty hard.
Elis is demonstrating that as with all  
JoefromPa : 11/10/2013 4:55 pm : link
elite pocket passers, Brees, Brady, his brother included, without a clean pocket they struggle.

Eli is not the problem with this team, the problem is a front office that is squandering some of his prime years.

RE: He shows no fire or emotion  
deadkurtrulz : 11/10/2013 4:55 pm : link
In comment 11329960 Headhunter said:
Quote:
Rehashing this crap from 8 years ago?


He wasn't a 10 year vet with two SB MVP's 8 years ago.
What?  
Headhunter : 11/10/2013 4:56 pm : link
.
They don't struggle to this extent.  
Riggies : 11/10/2013 4:57 pm : link
The OL is awful, but it's not that awful or anything newly awful.

Though you can't fairly expect a repeat performance of turning shit into gold that he showed then, the 2011 OL was likely worse, honestly.
Of course it's fair  
Jerry in DC : 11/10/2013 4:58 pm : link
He's been a mediocre, at best, QB for a year and a half now. He turns 33 in January. He makes a ton of money and is going to be looking for a ton more in the near future. He's giving you Carson Palmer production at 2.5x Palmer's salary. You watch other games and Eli is better than the really terrible 5 or 6 QBs around the league, but he's not playing measurably better than anyone else. And it's not like this is new or just based on today or anything. This has been the case for quite a while now. You can get what he's giving us from any run of the mill QB.

Eli has a tremendous amount of equity with the organization and the fans, so this is going to be a tricky situation. But giving $100 million (or whatever massive amount he'll be asking for) to an aging, mediocre QB is a very dangerous move for the health of the franchise.
RE: RE: He shows no fire or emotion  
Riggies : 11/10/2013 4:59 pm : link
In comment 11329986 deadkurtrulz said:
Quote:
In comment 11329960 Headhunter said:


Quote:


Rehashing this crap from 8 years ago?



He wasn't a 10 year vet with two SB MVP's 8 years ago.


That doesn't change that it was stupid as fuck then and is stupid as fuck now.

There are plenty of real issues with Eli's play and the performance of the passing attack in general. You don't have to foolishly complain about Fire! Emotion! and all that garbage that has been killed over and over again.
apparently not  
Headhunter : 11/10/2013 4:59 pm : link
.
He was average today very average..  
BBurns : 11/10/2013 5:04 pm : link
He is not worth 20 million at this point .
His lack of mobility and his lack of touch in the short passing game are his biggest flaws but the one thing
someone stated is that after an entire offseason the
passing game is worse . The Turnovers are another huge
problem and he owns plenty of them .
I really think he needs a fresh start to utilize his
strengths . Not a knock on Gilbride because he has to
Lombardi's . The WR tree route thin is hampering the
development of any WR we bring in . Eli is even less Mobile
if thats possible . I really think he needed a Big TE not just an overblown WR playing the TE position . He needs
a go to TE to bail him out when he needs an outlet or
at times a 1st down . its KISS time for the Offense
the O-line problem in the middle center Guard can be
upgraded in the off season but with the talent we have
at WR and the running game beginning to jell we should be hanging 30 on almost anyone we play .
the lone positive  
hitdog42 : 11/10/2013 5:05 pm : link
is that there is zero chance he gets a 20mio a year extension. and if he does its a total joke.
He already received his SB MVP extension. This one will be a more interesting negotiation.
He is closer to losing games for the giants this year then winning. week in and week out. the games we have won he has been a game manager.
He's been so bad that in year 10 the coaching staff has basically castrated him
RE: RE: RE: He shows no fire or emotion  
deadkurtrulz : 11/10/2013 5:07 pm : link
You don't have to foolishly complain about Fire! Emotion! and all that garbage that has been killed over and over again. [/quote]

Your right. Goofy old Eli should play nice and smile while he is being mauled from missed blocks and being humiliated from incorrect routes or dropped passes.
Yes.  
M.S. : 11/10/2013 5:09 pm : link
Next question.
He can react however the hell he wants and I won't care.  
Riggies : 11/10/2013 5:12 pm : link
Screaming in Diehl's face isn't going to make him not one of the worst OL on anyone's roster (forget starting) in the NFL.

Throwing his helmet isn't going to turn Myers into a legit TE that can at least luck into a quality block occasionally.

Scowling like he means it isn't going stop the pick-6 from happening today.

It just might all make fans like you feel better from your couch because you've bought too far and too long into stereotypes, but, no offense, you don't mean shit.
The ship has sailed  
Jerry in DC : 11/10/2013 5:20 pm : link
on the emotion/intangible stuff. He's in his 10th year and he is who he is. Eli is a good dude who works hard and I'm sure is highly respected in the locker room. It might be nice if slightly more explicit "leader" type things, but that's not him. It's fine - we've won and we've overcome adversity with that personality. His on-field performance should be the issue.
Having  
Arcanum : 11/10/2013 5:20 pm : link
Running game, will help Eli a lot.
BB56 is right on..  
Sean in PA : 11/10/2013 5:21 pm : link
again, can't we enjoy the fact that this team has won 3 straight and still in this thing?
RE: He can react however the hell he wants and I won't care.  
deadkurtrulz : 11/10/2013 5:23 pm : link
In comment 11330026 Riggies said:
Quote:
Screaming in Diehl's face isn't going to make him not one of the worst OL on anyone's roster (forget starting) in the NFL.

Throwing his helmet isn't going to turn Myers into a legit TE that can at least luck into a quality block occasionally.

Scowling like he means it isn't going stop the pick-6 from happening today.

It just might all make fans like you feel better from your couch because you've bought too far and too long into stereotypes, but, no offense, you don't mean shit.


Stereotypes ? WTF? It is my opinion that a veteran QB with
Eli's resume should show a little more leadership on the field. Not a real big deal, mostly he needs to stop sucking ass.

I guess you are the only one allowed to be an expert from your couch.
You have no idea what is and isn't leadership if you're not on the  
Riggies : 11/10/2013 5:28 pm : link
team, on that sideline.

Point blank, you want yelling and fire because it makes YOU feel better, because you've bought hard into a certain school of thought, not because it actually would change any of things that are most hurting this team right now.

It doesn't make me an expert from my couch to realize that. Just someone who long ago realized Giant fans are just as stupid when it comes to this stuff, despite actually having more evidence to the contrary, as any other team's are.
There is nothing to worry about  
Ash : 11/10/2013 5:35 pm : link
Eli's leadership. The concern is his play. He's being paid for 2011 performance. He's lightyears away from that. The O-line plays a part, but some his decisions have been absolutely mind boggling and his accuracy simply isn't there. They can't pay him this much cash for past performance.
I don't  
Brian T : 11/10/2013 5:57 pm : link
Know what the problem is....and frankly, im not going to even make up a problem

Eli is not playing well this season...

As a fan of his, you hope that he's going to have one of these amazing statistical seasons....5,000 yards, 40+ Touchdowns, 14 season wins

As of right now, I don't think that in the realm of possibility....

He is who he has always been....

Mediocre in the regular season (with the exception of some games) and AMAZING in the Playoffs (with the exception of equally the amount of games)

This season is not going to end to most fan standards....The Giants probably won't make the playoffs, probably won't win more than 7 games. Probably will lead the league in the worst category's a team should lead the league

But that's not a result of #10 at QB.....he's the best in franchise history...
Imagine if he threw 2 interceptions today?  
Headhunter : 11/10/2013 6:01 pm : link
The INTt was a horrible throw no ifs and or buts. The throw to Cruz, was frustrating but he had to get rid of it and it happens under duress to all QB's. You would think this was Minnesota 2007 de ja vu reading this
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 11/10/2013 6:02 pm : link
I love Eli, but he's having a down year.

I really want to see him in a different system.
No.  
Randy in CT : 11/10/2013 6:04 pm : link
I don't know what his problem is, but he didn't lose his ability. Perhaps he needs protection so he isn't hearing footsteps constantly. The obvious contributing factor is our shitastic offensive line.

Pugh and Beatty stay and blow up the rest.
There's no rocket science here  
jcn56 : 11/10/2013 6:11 pm : link
The OL has sucked since our last SB victory. At that time, Eli carried the Giants. He can't do it all the time, and when he can't the results aren't very good.

Can't figure out what part of the problem he plays until you can keep him getting hit every time he touches the ball.
Give him an armband with the plays on it  
JohnF : 11/10/2013 6:15 pm : link
Worked for my 2 time AFC Conference QB!

--Rex Ryan
The Giants certainly didn't tust him to pass the ball at the end of  
ZogZerg : 11/10/2013 6:24 pm : link
the game.

The Raiders D line was suppose to suck. Our OL needs a lot of help.
It all depends upon how one defines "his fault."  
manh george : 11/10/2013 6:38 pm : link
Is it his fault that a given play, or series of plays, is executed badly?

Yeah, but only if you accept the premise that having a shitshow for an offensive line never enters his thinking, confidence or resulting execution.

I don't. Put a midddle of the road quality OL in front of him,
and magically his thinking, confidence and execution all get better. It happens to pocket passers, even very good ones.
Enough with having a go at Eli  
Karma : 11/10/2013 7:05 pm : link
This season he's been beaten up, had no running game to support, and a receiving corps that's only just now getting into sync.
Sure it's been disappointing, but that doesn't mean he's given up on the team. I expect once the running game clicks in properly and can be trusted, we'll see a marked upswing in the passing game.
The Raiders defense only sucked against the Eagles last week.  
Riggies : 11/10/2013 7:12 pm : link
They were around 10-12 in stuff like YPG, PPG, etc and a lot of analyst types were relatively high on their DL before they got bent over by Foles & Company.

The Giants' offense/passing attack blows against everyone, good or bad defenses, but they weren't facing a group as terrible as many Giant fans/media members were thinking coming in.
RE: ...  
dep026 : 11/10/2013 7:14 pm : link
In comment 11330110 SanFranGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I love Eli, but he's having a down year.

I really want to see him in a different system.


This is the only post worth reading. Eli is struggling, but this system absolutely fucking blows when your OLine is this bad, and you have 1 receiver who makes plays.
RE: The Giants certainly didn't tust him to pass the ball at the end of  
jcn56 : 11/10/2013 7:15 pm : link
In comment 11330158 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
the game.

The Raiders D line was suppose to suck. Our OL needs a lot of help.


Did the Giants not trust him, or figure that with the game Brown was having and the fact that they needed to eat up clock, they were better off running?

I know if Eli threw and tossed and INT there, we'd have 800 'WHY THE HELL ARE THEY THROWING THERE' posts. Apparently, if they don't throw the tone doesn't change.
well the running game was going well  
hitdog42 : 11/10/2013 7:23 pm : link
and eli was going well... and the OL wasnt THAT bad... and then he went rookie scrub QB on us back foot pressure pick to end the half and almost blew the game for us. It led to us being conservative the rest of the game, because our coaching staff frankly DIDNT trust him to not FCK up. that is a BIG issue.
I was very excited about the previous drive, with eli hitting short passes in stride. Even the play before to randle he looked great, and in rhythm. the pick 6 was UNACCEPTABLE. and it almost cost us the game, which would be the season. he has had several of those type plays in the last season of football (rookie plays)... and for 20m bux, 2 SBs, we all EXPECT more and we all DESERVE more.

these comments all come with FULL understanding that the OL stinks, the offense doesnt match the OL, the WR often are on the wrong page, and the RB positions has been a revolving door.
Even with all of that negativity, he should still be a value add player on the field, and lately hes been mediocre, even when assuming he wont be able to put up gaudy numbers of the past because we cant get down field.

Many of you just use the OL, Gilbrie, and WR miscues as cop outs for what has been an obvious and glaring problem for a full season.
I hope/expect it to work itself out, but he needs to be better, ESPECIALLY since i think the way our defense is playing, we have the potential to win every game on our schedule, especially since seattle has to fly cross country.
It's having kids  
derpaderp : 11/10/2013 7:28 pm : link
Trust me, it ruins everything.
Lets see  
CapeGman : 11/10/2013 7:29 pm : link
Bad O-line play, no running game, Nicks play is way down, a not very talented TE, No rb most of the season that can be an outlet. I'm sure there is a lot I have not mentioned.

Eli is still my man. I have little worry about him.

He has always made a few boneheaded throws throughout the regular season. Many interception he throws are the result of miscommunication between him and his receivers. That is a concern. Why are they not on the same page as often as they are?
....  
yankees78 : 11/10/2013 7:34 pm : link
I will forever worry about Eli's health playing behind that line. Please don't die
78 on the money  
nomad1986 : 11/10/2013 7:42 pm : link
Every game that Eli plays behind the worst RG in the NFL and a free agent center who couldn't make any other teams roster it's fair to worry. There are at least 20 teams in the NFL that would happily take Eli off the Giants hands if they wanted to dump him.

Chris Mara and Jerry Reese better get their shit together and build a decent OL for 2014 instead of the embarrassment they have now.
Geez, the questions about Manning are amazing to me ...  
baadbill : 11/10/2013 7:42 pm : link
Most QBs would have played it safe this year and just taken the sacks ... Manning has forced the ball because that has been the only chance the Giants have had of winning during the first 6 games ... the three wins have featured two differences ... Beason on defense and, most importantly, some semblence of a running game ... but even with that the OL remains porous and Manning is under constant pressure ... to help with the pressure, he's being asked to make his throws earlier ...

Has he been perfect? Of course not. But I can't think of a single QB I'd prefer to have back there this year ... Manning has given the Giants everything they could ask for this year in an effort to carry this team on his shoulders at the expense of his own personal "reputation" - and he does that without complaint or excuse. It took me a long time to believe Manning was the real deal and legitimate "competition" for Phil Simms as best Giants' QB ever, but he's shown that to me and perhaps never more so than this year.
with the loyalty  
GmenDynasty : 11/10/2013 7:45 pm : link
And blindness of the organization don't know if we'll ever get to see what Manning could do in a system designed to take advantage of it talent in the pass game.
If Eli throws  
dep026 : 11/10/2013 7:46 pm : link
1 INT for 3 games (like he did in the last 3 games), not a single person here should be crying or complaining.

Again, when your system is shit right now, the offense is going to look pathetic. Nicks is a 3rd receiver at this point, Cruz hasnt made a play in weeks, we have no TEs. And our OLine blows.

The same people who complaiend aboht the fade pass inside the 5 should realize we ran it 3times.

TD
PI
Drop
I think it's completely reasonable  
santacruzom : 11/10/2013 7:53 pm : link
to wonder if Eli will improve to the level he's exhibited in the past. I mean, banking on the assumption that a player will do so is what can get you our current OL that everyone's complaining about.
Nope.  
AnishPatel : 11/10/2013 7:59 pm : link
I wouldn't worry about him. The offense as a whole unit sucks. Damn goal line FG. Run, Run, pass , FG. I am more worried about our offense.
Once again, the first and goal offense consists of  
PSIMMS 22-25-268 : 11/10/2013 8:54 pm : link
Running up the middle and then a corner fade.
to answer OP  
Spock : 11/10/2013 8:59 pm : link
most definitely. He's not the same guy for reasons we all have discussed.
Eli  
stretch234 : 11/10/2013 9:00 pm : link
The int was terrible even with him about to get hit, but the reality is teams have been able to pressure with 4 or most 5. When this happens he is getting little time, and when he does get time they are 6 or 7 back with at most 4 in the pattern.

He has had very few opportunities to just step up and throw.

Eli is a down the field passer, and currently the OL does not allow for that. I am sure it sucks for him not being able to throw downfield
Anish about  
GmenDynasty : 11/10/2013 9:04 pm : link
The offense, playcalling or offensive system?
If only we had  
Chicken Teriyaki Boy : 11/10/2013 11:00 pm : link
Nick Foles.
...  
christian : 11/10/2013 11:44 pm : link
My biggest concern honestly was how often it looked like he was checking into a run plays that absolutely got swallowed. It's happened much more this year to my eyes, maybe I am just noticing it more.

This isn't anything ground breaking, but just so many things all have to go right with the personnel and packages. I get the sense we're still an impose our will mentality system, and do things by the chart (this look, do this. That look, do that). That seems to work when we have all our horses, but when short handed things look so bad so quickly.
Eli IS playing like garbage.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 11/11/2013 12:46 am : link
QBs tend to play like garbage when they get hit a lot and there's a lot of pressure. It fucks them up even when there's no pressure. The Giants have won nearly all of their Super Bowls doing that to opposing QBs. He's not mobile, so protection is of the utmost importance. Until the o-line is fixed OR the running game improves, I would expect Eli to be shaky.
Some insight on the Giants offense  
GmenDynasty : 11/11/2013 4:07 am : link
Read for yourself
Here is some Insight on the Giants offense - ( New Window )
and an Article  
GmenDynasty : 11/11/2013 4:09 am : link
Link below
WSJ article - ( New Window )
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