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Is Eli now the weak link???

Geeman : 11/11/2013 11:28 am
Giants defense has really brought this team back from the dead. The Oline has stablilzed. The wides have been healthy all season. Brown has showed up finally and along with Peyton and Connor's have gotten the run game going. Fewell has simplified the defense and they have responded well especially with the Beason acquisition suring up the LBer unit and defense as a whole. Secondary is playing solid too. Give Rolle a lot of credit for stepping his game up along with Thomas and Hill back there and Prince is quietly having a solid if unspectacular season too.
Eli has to play better, it's that simple. I don't want to hear anymore excuses. This line is not great, but it doesn't have to be, it's good enough right now to win with. Eli needs to step up his game and cut out turnovers and his skittish play.
He's had one turnover in the last 3 wins.  
Ace718 : 11/11/2013 11:29 am : link
.
in what world  
jintz4life : 11/11/2013 11:30 am : link
has the oline stabilized
Yes.  
Randy in CT : 11/11/2013 11:30 am : link
It has nothing to do with the Oline.
It has nothing to do with the running game.
It has nothing to do with the receivers.
Eli isn't a good QB and I wish we never drafted him.
Sure he used to be good but then he got bad.

Motherfucking stupidity/
Do you watch the games?  
drkenneth : 11/11/2013 11:31 am : link
This team has a lot of issues, Eli being just one of many. OL stinks, No TE, Nicks not playing well, Coaching, are all issues.
All we need  
SBlue46 : 11/11/2013 11:32 am : link
is to get to SB and Eli will make that 1 miracle
throw and he will be God again for a few weeks
Eli  
NJGiantFan84 : 11/11/2013 11:32 am : link
has been playing poorly, but it's the entire offense. Did Eli Miss Cruz on a TD pass yesterday? Yes. Cruz also dropped one. Was Eli rushed on the Pick 6? Yes, he had to throw that ball earlier than he wanted to and shouldn't have thrown it at all. Eli is having a bad season, but it's not like the offense as a whole is playing great and its just Eli missing throws and making bad decisions. There needs to be improvement across the board on offense.

Go back and look at the revolving door which this Oline was  
Geeman : 11/11/2013 11:33 am : link
in the first 4 games and further look at the non existent run game due in large part to the Oline, and look at it the last 3 games?
Eli isn't under nearly as much duress as he was earlier in the season. These throws he has missed he wasn't even under pressure....smh.
It's sad the excuses that are still made around here.
Jesus Christ  
Giantology : 11/11/2013 11:33 am : link
I hope Eli turns it around soon because I'm really tired of the idiots coming out of the woodwork. No offense bossman. You've always been an idiot.
While everyone would agree that he has to be play better,  
Mad Mike : 11/11/2013 11:34 am : link
not sure how anyone would consider him the weak link on this team. That seems, well, not very observant.
no. just not having a great year.  
Victor in CT : 11/11/2013 11:39 am : link
the interior of the OL is the weak link.
When Eli starts hitting his wides in the hands and they drop them,  
Geeman : 11/11/2013 11:39 am : link
I'll put that on the wides. Brown ran for over 100 yards, so you can't make the exucse he didn't have a run game to go play action with. The Oline gave him sufficient time and his pick that Coughlin himself said during his post game interview that ELI MISSED THE NICKLE. he clearly overthrew Cruz and there were some other errand throws. This isn't something new, this has been the case for most of the season. I like Eli and think he can still lead this team to the Offs, however he needs to get his act together and I'm not going to excuse away these types of plays as other's apparently are all to willing to do.
Nope.  
AnishPatel : 11/11/2013 11:40 am : link
The OL sucks. Stabilized is a strong word. It's not a shit show so that's a plus. It's still not very good. It's like when we changed our offense when Plax shot himself. Did we adjust? Sure. We moved Hixon to X. Were we effective? No, we needed that off season to get ourselves working again. Our offense is a deep strike passing game with a lot of 5 and 7 step passing concepts. Our OL sucks, and we can't run our offense we are used to running. We can't run block and now can't pass block. Yesterday was a good day, but we need to do that on a consistent basis. Right now we are just existing on offense. Short 3 step concept passing plays and dink and dunks. You can only do so much of that.

The more we play, the more tape on our adjustments is available for all teams. So now things get harder for us. Except for slants, and come backs. We don't have much. Our X hasn't done shit this year. We have ZERO TE contribution. We dink and dunk, and we are hysterically bad at screen passes.

All in all, our offense is broken. We need to fix it in the off season in terms of personnel and scheme to fit that personnel. Blaming Eli as the weak link isn't close to accurate.
Eli is not the weak link...  
M.S. : 11/11/2013 11:42 am : link
...but he is having a terrible season.

The good news is that -- if we have a pick up in O-line protection and Eli passing -- then we can win quite a few of the remaining games.

Translation: we may get to watch a few late, MEANINGFUL, games!!!

Go Giants.
Has he  
Doomster : 11/11/2013 11:42 am : link
played much different from last year?

Who knows, maybe he can throw 7 td's against Wash in the last game, to "pad" his stats like last year?

To blame it all on Eli is crazy, of course. To give him a free pass, is crazier...
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/11/2013 11:43 am : link
We can simultaneously love Eli and think he's had a terrible year.

He hasn't been a top 10 QB since 2011. If he turns it on, we could make a run at the division.
The Oline as a whole is probably the weakest link in all  
Geeman : 11/11/2013 11:44 am : link
reality, But they have played better as a unit the last 3 games, Eli is closer to the weakest link on this team then one of it's strengths based on his first half of season play. It is what it is.
If he could play better this team could really kick into another gear I feel.
The one thing about Eli that BBIers may have overlooked...  
M.S. : 11/11/2013 11:47 am : link
...he clearly is uncomfortable back there with his current o-line, but I have seen games (like the San Fran Championship) in which Eli's ass was hammered into the ground... again and again. But he came back after EVERY blow more confident than ever.

But this season, he looks jumpy and quick triggered. Yesterday, Oakland didn't come close to pounding his ass the way San Fran did in that Championship game, but Eli looked rattled and uncomfortable for most of yesterday's game.
The turnaround from is Eli Elite ?  
Headhunter : 11/11/2013 11:47 am : link
to is Eli the weak link? Is mind boggling, but it shouldn't be, but it is, considering the Mensa posters on this site
No...the interior offensive line is still crap  
dpinzow : 11/11/2013 11:50 am : link
any QB would be getting jitters getting pressure up the middle all the time. However, the interception he threw yesterday was completely on him
I'd be uncomfortable  
AnishPatel : 11/11/2013 11:52 am : link
too if I can't run the offense I am used to. I can only dink and dunk so many times. Slants are right, but I'd be worried my WR won't finish his route. Rushing plays are good, if they are not blown up 4 yards behind the LOS which still does happen.

Stupid mistakes still occur with fumbles. And on top of that teams are throwing the kitchen sink blitzing because they don't respect our OL. I wouldn't respect them either if I am an opposing DC.

You can't run a screen to save your life. Why not run WR or TE screens at least to mix it up? Or is that asking too much from our staff? Again, can we get the TE involved as a safety valve?

What a shit show of an offense. Again, you can only do so much before both kickers get action. The Punter and the PK kicking FGs left and right.
What is funny is that  
mdc1 : 11/11/2013 11:53 am : link
Eli looks like the QB we first drafted, interceptions galore and standing behind a bad oline. Maybe the oline makes him nervous and getting rid of the ball quickly.
RE: The Oline as a whole is probably the weakest link in all  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/11/2013 11:53 am : link
In comment 11331637 Geeman said:
Quote:
reality, But they have played better as a unit the last 3 games, Eli is closer to the weakest link on this team then one of it's strengths based on his first half of season play. It is what it is.
If he could play better this team could really kick into another gear I feel.


I would say the o-line has been playing well the last 5 games starting with the 1st Eagles game and the Chicago game (even though they lost).

Yes the line was terrible when they went up against Carolina and Kansas City. But a strong case can be made that this season (using hindsight), those 2 teams have had the best Front 7's in the NFL.

You know  
mrvax : 11/11/2013 11:54 am : link
I was thinking yesterday as to when we would get a "Bench Eli and start Nassib" thread.
These Eli discussions always suck  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 11:54 am : link
He has been brutal, yes like always its a team game and hes dealing with issues outside of himself. But his play has been deplorable and hes not helping anything. Even tom coughlin has at times been frustrated with his decision making *publicly*. He's a good QB playing very poorly. Call it like it is. Or just defend his shitshow of a 2013 and make it widely known that you are pretty much just a homer who will never come down on his play if you can't this season. And that's fine. But don't come off trying to sound like a voice of reason
RE: Go back and look at the revolving door which this Oline was  
NJGiantFan84 : 11/11/2013 11:55 am : link
In comment 11331605 Geeman said:
Quote:
in the first 4 games and further look at the non existent run game due in large part to the Oline, and look at it the last 3 games?
Eli isn't under nearly as much duress as he was earlier in the season. These throws he has missed he wasn't even under pressure....smh.
It's sad the excuses that are still made around here.



Which throws? the only big throw he missed yesterday without getting rushed was the deep ball to Cruz when he should have thrown to the inside rather than the outside. Other than that, the "2nd Cruz TD" that was not hit was a throw he was forced to make early because there was a defender right in his face. The pick 6 was a throw he was forced to make early due to pressure. Eli should have had 3 TD passes yesterday. Nicks was interfered with, Cruz dropped 1 and Randle caught 1. It's not excuses, it's what happened.

Simply put,  
Big Blue '56 : 11/11/2013 12:01 pm : link
Eli is who he is. Sometimes erratic(some years more than others) and always the guy you want with the ball when an important game is on the line.

He is a great, non-statistical QB(though stat lines relative to other eras are pretty done good) who will more than likely get his shit together for a playoff push..There are no guarantees of course and this might just be one of those seasons, where murphy's law kicks in and if so, so be it..

Eli is a strong student of the game and is totally aware of where he is at present and what needs to be done to correct it for when it counts..

My money(strongly) is on Eli

MarshallOnMontana...  
M.S. : 11/11/2013 12:02 pm : link
...thank you!

There are just way, way too many BBIers who view any negative comments about Eli as either uninformed or disloyal, or both. It's a very predictable pattern that crops up after poor performances. And given that Eli is having a terrible season, we've been getting an awful amount of chirping.
I will be the first to say that the O-line needs to improve BUT  
Jimmy Googs : 11/11/2013 12:03 pm : link
Eli played bad yesterday...and that is indisputable. Further, he had a fairly good running game to rely upon yesterday that moved the chains numerous times.

His throws were high (typical) at the beginning of the game. He threw behind receivers on a few crossing patterns in the red zone. He missed a wide open Cruz for a TD that would have sealed the game for certain.

The pick-6 was just another example this year of an awful decision from a 10 year veteran player that should be playing better.

Nevertheless, we got nothing else better at Qb, so bring on Green Bay!
If he turns into another shell-shocked David Carr  
silverfox : 11/11/2013 12:05 pm : link
...if he isn't getting there now, he will certainly be.
When the Giants won SB's it was MVP Eli  
xman : 11/11/2013 12:07 pm : link
who garnered the credit. When the Giants lose it is the teams failure in various areas. Sorry I don't buy it.
Eli would be the first to tell you he is having  
Headhunter : 11/11/2013 12:08 pm : link
a bad season. The guy's mantra is I got to get better, but clearly he hasn't this year.Have we seen the best of Eli? maybe, but I believe he will bounce back, I would need to see
a much bigger sample before the thought of Eli being a QB that is in decline gets in my head
Silverfox  
Big Blue '56 : 11/11/2013 12:08 pm : link
you continue to be a fucking idiot!
silverfox...  
M.S. : 11/11/2013 12:11 pm : link
...I just can't bring myself to mention David Carr in the same breath as Eli Manning. The former had one HUGE liability as an NFL QB... he could not drop back to pass and properly evaluate the dynamically changing secondary/passing routes. In short, he had a real problem seeing the ENTIRE field. In contrast, one of Eli's tremendous strengths is that he can process information on the fly and make some incredible plays!!!
The weak link geeman  
GmenDynasty : 11/11/2013 12:11 pm : link
is the over-complexity of the offense.

If Eli isnt having a perfect year (along with the OL and the recievers) we are going to see it malfunction like it is now.

Simplify and watch the players all 'magically' transform like the D did!
JFC.  
BrettNYG10 : 11/11/2013 12:12 pm : link
.
silverfox is a special kind of troll  
Headhunter : 11/11/2013 12:12 pm : link
he got BB'56 to use the f word, I believe it is the first time I read it from him in 12 years
He's a good QB playing poorly about sums it up  
jcn56 : 11/11/2013 12:15 pm : link
But you're not the voice of reason when you say the OL is OK. In fact, it's pretty sure you're the voice of a steady supply of alcohol or vision impairment drugs at that point.

We're all ecstatic that Brown ran for what he did, but let's not put that on blocking, the guy spent most of his time carrying people on his back. And any time Oakland brought more than 4 people up front, Eli had someone in his face almost instantly.

Barring the idiotic pick 6 (which was entirely Eli's fault), what was it about his play that was so bad? He overthrew a guy a couple of times, but he spent the entire afternoon on the run.
Want no one but Eli!  
Nygman58 : 11/11/2013 12:15 pm : link
Geeman, Not sure you're watching the same game? He made some great passes on Sunday! That TD pass in the cormer of the endzone was into a bucket! There were 18 MPH winds at Met life, pressure all day long. On the pick 6, the corner just made a great play and jumped the route. yes, he's a gunslinger from time to time but I would not want ANY OTHER QB in the league! I love his guts!
RE: He's a good QB playing poorly about sums it up  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 12:19 pm : link
In comment 11331743 jcn56 said:
Quote:
But you're not the voice of reason when you say the OL is OK. In fact, it's pretty sure you're the voice of a steady supply of alcohol or vision impairment drugs at that point.

We're all ecstatic that Brown ran for what he did, but let's not put that on blocking, the guy spent most of his time carrying people on his back. And any time Oakland brought more than 4 people up front, Eli had someone in his face almost instantly.

Barring the idiotic pick 6 (which was entirely Eli's fault), what was it about his play that was so bad? He overthrew a guy a couple of times, but he spent the entire afternoon on the run.


JCN, since the text in your subject applies to and is basically a quote of mine, im going to go ahead and assume the body of your message applies to me too. Ive never once said the OL has been fine. It hasn't been, though it has gotten better and they have had a few games where they weren't a glaring issue. They play a part in his struggles of course, But Eli independent of that hasn't been very good, and hes certainly not raising the level of his supporting cast as elite QBs do.

Tom Coughlin basically threw his arms up in the presser after the first Eagle game and might as well have said "I have no clue what the fuck this guy is doing right now". At least since then he's largely avoided turnovers
these type of threads  
Bradshaw #44 : 11/11/2013 12:22 pm : link
always bring out the intelligent ones.
Criticize Eli on the pick 6, it was the worst pick he has thrown this  
Headhunter : 11/11/2013 12:23 pm : link
you want to kill him for missing a wide open Cruz on the 5 yard line although there was a guy in his face, I get that another QB would have made the throw. What is total bullshit is reading that Eli had a game comparable or worse than the Minnesota game in 2007 by reading the comments and not what actually happened in the game outside those 2 plays
Yes, we should play Painter  
PatersonPlank : 11/11/2013 12:24 pm : link
He would do much better. Or maybe we could trade for Sanchez, he would be better too.
The weak link  
Phil S : 11/11/2013 12:34 pm : link
is special teams. They have at least one disaster per game.
Like or not, it does not matter.  
chiefmps : 11/11/2013 12:35 pm : link
The cold hard truth is there is no plan B for the Giants when it comes to the QB spot. The Giants are stuck with Eli because of is his contract and there are no elite QB's is this upcoming draft. Like him or not, the Giants made a commitment with Eli and now they have to live with it no matter how bad he continue to play. No much to look forward to, Eli best days are in the pass.
There are a ton of idiots on this site who need to  
Mark C : 11/11/2013 12:42 pm : link
call everyone who presents an opinion that differs from theirs an idiot. Name calling is the refuge of the poster without an argument or a vocabulary.

That said, here's something y'all might be able to agree on: This team is simply not good enough to make the playoffs unless Eli finds his A-game, which has been missing for a long stretch now. Conversely, if Eli is at his best, this team can and maybe even should win the division. That's how good he is, and that's how important he is. The team is built around him. And when you make a hundred million dollars and the team is built around you, you're going to get a bigger slice of the blame pie than the guy in front of you who can't block your grandmother.
Name calling is the refuge of the poster without an argument or a  
Headhunter : 11/11/2013 12:44 pm : link
vocabulary. Really? Who made that rule?
chiefmps...  
M.S. : 11/11/2013 12:45 pm : link
...I don't think you have that right.

Sure, Eli has been shaky so far this season. But that can turn around real fast. And longer term, I don't have a concern about him at QB!
Mark C...  
M.S. : 11/11/2013 12:47 pm : link
...you've got that right. We can make the playoffs if Eli turns his game around. And it would sure help if the O-line does the same. Together, we could indeed make the playoffs. But at the current rate, will never happen.
The ol, confusion with wr's and the running game are all part  
Ira : 11/11/2013 12:49 pm : link
of the problem. But Eli's missed passes when he had time that he never would have missed two years ago. I don't know why that's the case, but I know we're not going to a sb as long as it is.
right now the passing game is the biggest issue  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/11/2013 12:56 pm : link
and the QB is the most important part of the passing game, so yea I can see how you'd call Eli the weak link.

2011: Top 4 QB behind Rodgers, Brees, Brady (arguably #1 after playoffs)
2012: 8th-15th range QB, an up an down "Ok" season
2012: ~25th best QB so far, maybe lower based solely on stats

Eli has always been inconsistent so that's why I'm not really too worried about his long term prognosis. I think he'll return to being a very good QB in the near future. While he has a low floor (what we're seeing now) he also has a HOF ceiling (2011).

The OL and running game were garbage in 2011, Eli put that offense on his back along with Cruz. The OL and running game is garbage this year, but Eli can't seem to overcome that. I think at some point last season the defenses around the league said "fuck it, they're really one dimensional" and just ignored the running game. Now it's up to Gilbride to adjust to that and so far he has done an awful job. And Eli has done a poor job executing the plays this year.

Bottomline: Eli needs to play better. He has the talent and he has the experience, he will play better but it's just a matter of when.
The  
AcidTest : 11/11/2013 12:59 pm : link
OL and ST are the weakest links, but Eli isn't far behind.

Eli has thrown more picks than any other QB drafted since 2004. I know he's won two SBs, but that is an alarming statistic. And this year, he's been flat awful.
Mark C,  
Big Blue '56 : 11/11/2013 1:02 pm : link
it's rarely if ever about disagreement. I rarely agree with Greg, Kyle and Acid to name a few, But I would never call them fucking idiots because they're not..Follow silverfox on any post of your choice and you will see he is in fact a fucking idiot..Similar to snablats. Not sure they're not one in the same..
Snablats has a new handle  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 1:04 pm : link
im about 99.9% sure of it. but its not silverfox. Its Nomads1986
Eli had a mediocre  
bc4life : 11/11/2013 1:05 pm : link
game yesterday - missed some important throws and a pick 6. He'll snap out of it
Joe, curious,  
Big Blue '56 : 11/11/2013 1:07 pm : link
Eli's throw to me looked piss poor. Has Cruz said anything about that, that you've seen? Just wondering(not suggesting) if VC and Eli failed to be on the same page.

Or, the throw simply sucked. Period.
RE: These Eli discussions always suck  
hitdog42 : 11/11/2013 1:08 pm : link
In comment 11331678 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
He has been brutal, yes like always its a team game and hes dealing with issues outside of himself. But his play has been deplorable and hes not helping anything. Even tom coughlin has at times been frustrated with his decision making *publicly*. He's a good QB playing very poorly. Call it like it is. Or just defend his shitshow of a 2013 and make it widely known that you are pretty much just a homer who will never come down on his play if you can't this season. And that's fine. But don't come off trying to sound like a voice of reason


this post should just get a sticky so we can avoid all Eli threads going forward this year. thank you!
BB56  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 1:13 pm : link
I don't feel comfortable discussing anything about this game until i watch it a 2nd time when i burn it to DVD as i usually do midweek. I don't usually drink but this season is different. I was about a 4 Loko and 3 Buds deep by the time that Cruz play happened
you drink 4 loko?  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/11/2013 1:15 pm : link
wtf man
.  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 1:16 pm : link
Cheap, 12% alcohol. Nice way to get a buzz without spending much. The alcoholic beverage of cheap champions
I haven't  
NJGiantFan84 : 11/11/2013 1:17 pm : link
seen anybody defending Eli. The point is that there is more to Eli's poor play than Eli just playing poorly. Guys not being on the same page, a turnstyle OL and lack of a running game all contribute to the poor play.

It's not like everything else on the offense is perfect and he just isn't playing well. He is not playing well and a lot of that is on him. His decision making is poor, he isn't seeing the field as well as he usually does but there are also other contributing factors that need to be addressed. I think Eli will bounce back and get back to his Elite ways, but he must have an OL and he must have a running game.

The circumstances are what they are...  
arcarsenal : 11/11/2013 1:20 pm : link
But I think Eli clearly needs to play better. We've seen him play better, know he's capable of it. He's just not connecting on throws he needs to make. The TD throw to Randle was a really nice throw, the fade to Nicks where he was interfered with was good.. but it just seems like even on routine, mid-range passes, he's sailing the ball, throwing wide, etc. I know it was windy.. but even still, I just feel like he's leaving plays out on the field that he's more than capable of making.

And again, the short passing game, throwing bullets at the RB's feet.. there's just no touch.

I wouldn't call him the weak link but I do think he needs to elevate his play a little bit if we want to really make a run here and the pick 6's have to stop. They've been absolutely killer.
When you talk about,  
dep026 : 11/11/2013 1:21 pm : link
being the weakest link, you have to look at the offense as a whole. To me, Eli;s play has been fairly poor this year, but hardly the weakest link. IMO...

1. TE play is BY FAR the weakest link to the offense. They cant run, catch, block, or have self awareness. It's a very poor group and give Eli absolutely nothing as far as an out let.

2. OLine comes in Number 2 for me. The interior of our line is just absolutely dreadful. Diehl should not be a starter. Cordle should not be an NFL player and Boothe looks like a backup right now. They give Eli nowhere to step up into the pocket and throw. Just look at what happens when Eli scrambles or moves in the pocket. Its always to the left or to the right. Rarrely up the middle since our interior is getting blown back. Pugh and Beatty have had moments where they struggled, but look to be at least stable on the ends of the lines.

3a. Eli
3b. WRs

These two positions go hand in hand because they have not been on the same page all year. Eli's throw yesterday was inexcusable. Cant make that throw in that situation. But many times this year we got WRs runing one route and the QB throwing it to another. The other day, someone on ESPn did a really good job breaking down how a WR/QB mix up proves costly. Many times Eli has already thrown the ball, and then the WR makes another move. Again, the result is ugly - but its the confusion that is the problem. Maybe its the system? But its absolutely killing the Giants. Nicks has been mediocre this year. Cruz has be nreally quiet the last few weeks. Randle was nowhere to be found against Philly, but had a good game against Oakland.

The problem to me, IMO is the big play potential is down because we cant get the down field passing game going. No teams respect the run. Safties are playing well over the top. And forcing us now to play it safe. And if we did want to throw deep, we dont give Eli enough time.

4. RBs. While not the most talented in the league, we have shown signs of life the last few weeks so there is hope. If we can ever really get a grund game going, it can only help our play action.


So when discussing the weakest link, TEs/OLs have to top the list. However, I dont think 1 or 2 is ever going to get much better this year, so its on Eli AND the wide receivers to stop making mistakes and make big plays for us in order for us to have a shot to make a run for the playoffs.
RE: Joe, curious,  
T-Bone : 11/11/2013 1:24 pm : link
In comment 11331908 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Eli's throw to me looked piss poor. Has Cruz said anything about that, that you've seen? Just wondering(not suggesting) if VC and Eli failed to be on the same page.

Or, the throw simply sucked. Period.


Yes, Cruz has already come out and said he was 'surprised' by the throw because he says the coverage dictated to him that the ball wasn't coming his way so he wasn't expecting it. You can see the look of surprise on him after the INT. The column is below.
Why'd you throw it Eli? - ( New Window )
the giants TE situation  
hitdog42 : 11/11/2013 1:24 pm : link
might be the biggest disgrace of a unit in NFL history. Its an embarrassment. And its a large factor in our inability to run off tackle, set an edge, and get an effective goal line offense and mid range passing game.
Cruz' reaction on that play was the same as probably every fans...  
arcarsenal : 11/11/2013 1:25 pm : link
I did the same exact thing he did.
Eli is  
cookiemonster : 11/11/2013 1:26 pm : link
one of many weak links. However, I think he is the biggest one because he is the QB and his play now is just unacceptable. At some point he has to play like a competent NFL quarterback if the Giants want to be a team that is taken seriously.
Eli will be fine..  
Rsspro : 11/11/2013 1:26 pm : link
..
Thanks Boneman.  
Big Blue '56 : 11/11/2013 1:27 pm : link
This then was clearly on Eli
I have defended  
dep026 : 11/11/2013 1:28 pm : link
many of Eli's INTs throughout this year.

Cant do it on this one though. However, if he continues to throw 1 INT for every 3 games played..... i'll be quite happy.
The Giants' shortcuts is on in about a half hour(2 pm EST)  
Big Blue '56 : 11/11/2013 1:28 pm : link
and I will check it out again
We pay Eli not to be ok or pretty good, but EXTREMELY FUCKING GOOD  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/11/2013 1:29 pm : link
$20M/year comes with certain expectations. He is not living up to his pay. But you can't judge him in a vacuum. His OL play has been terrible. WRs have not produced and the running game is spotty. TEs? None to speak of. So we have to temper our criticism understandably.

Irregardless of that he has been atrocious. 11TDs to 16 INTs? 55% comp? That's Blaine Gabbert shit.
RE: We pay Eli not to be ok or pretty good, but EXTREMELY FUCKING GOOD  
dep026 : 11/11/2013 1:31 pm : link
In comment 11331970 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
$20M/year comes with certain expectations. He is not living up to his pay. But you can't judge him in a vacuum. His OL play has been terrible. WRs have not produced and the running game is spotty. TEs? None to speak of. So we have to temper our criticism understandably.

Irregardless of that he has been atrocious. 11TDs to 16 INTs? 55% comp? That's Blaine Gabbert shit.


The INTs are a problem, but we have never pad Eli's stats like other top QBs get theirs padded. In the last 3-4 years - Eli is something like 12th in TD passes inside the 10. Brees/Peyton/Rodgers..... they are gunslingers inside the 10.
Interesting  
Big Blue '56 : 11/11/2013 1:32 pm : link
the years Ryan and Flacco are having(to date) after signing hefty contracts..
Eli  
stretch234 : 11/11/2013 1:36 pm : link
Biggest difference between OL in 2011 and late last year and this is that while run blocking has been poor, the pass protection was much better, especially up the middle.

When Dallas has their problems on OL it is up the middle and Romo looks bad. Cutler had nobody in the middle and took a beating and looks bad. You can help the tackles on the outside, but if the man directly in front of the QB struggles, it has a cumulative effect.

This does not absolve Eli at all - he has made some atrocious throws, some while actually having time (missing Myers in Chi the biggest example)

An improved running game will help because it will cut down on the 3rd and 8 over plays, where the line has been most suspect
No problem '56!  
T-Bone : 11/11/2013 1:37 pm : link
I had the same reaction that Cruz and arcarsenal did as well but he must've simply not seen the CB in that zone. It happens. I agree that he hasn't been playing very well so far this season but I have faith he'll come through when it counts.
Eli having a bad year, but think about this  
NYG007 : 11/11/2013 1:37 pm : link
We have an estimated 11-14 dropped TD's this year. I record, re-watch games 2-3x, including the losses. Now, lets say 12 to be fair (its really 14, but I'll give a few back). 1 of those 12 converted to a TD pass, yesterday, so were back to 11.

He has 2 hail mary ints and 2 late ints down by 10+ this year to try and make a play. He also has an INT off a players foot.

Now, lets also factor in the 3 breakaway tds we lost, that didn't turn into TD passes (Myers, Randle, Cruz, all going in, fell on their own). Were talking close to a 25 TD season and 10-11 pick, so far. How would you feel about 10 if our Offense actually did their part this year?

Eli is not playing well this year, we can all agree to that. But the OL is terrible, and his teammates are simply killing him with well placed TD drops all season long.

We need the C from Cleveland to not get franchised, work on replacing our Guards, and things will look much better from a frantic Eli always under pressure, in 2014.
Fiddy..  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/11/2013 1:39 pm : link
Matt Ryan who i don't think is as good as Eli has no OL, no running game and no Julio Jones. Statistically he is still showing much better than Eli. Eli just has to play better, forget this "weak link" bullshit.

They've committed a huge % of the cap to Eli, he has to be better than this.
When you say "THE weak link" it implies the singular form.  
Great White Ghost : 11/11/2013 1:43 pm : link
but the offensive guards, the center, and the TEs are all far weaker than the QB position. So the answer is no, the QB is not " THE" weak link.several positions, let alone players, ar far weaker. that is not to say Eli has been playing well, he hasn't.
dep  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 1:44 pm : link
in the last three years, Eli is also 1st in interceptions in goal to go situations. (Not that 3 is a significant amount or anything, but INTs in those siuations are rare)

His pass attempts in these spots are lower than many QBs, but there is also a wide gap in production that goes well beyond attempts. These guys aren't way more productive inside the 10 because coaches are trying to pad stats. They're padding their stats relative to Eli in that area of the field because they are much better than him in that area of the field. Much of it could be due to the fact that accuracy has never been his strongest point and is paramount in those tight windows in that condensed field

QBs in goal to go situations since 2011 (keep in mind Peyton missed all of 2011)...

Eli 29 for 72 (40.3%) 21 TD 3 INT
Rodgers 59 for 88 (67.0%) 42 TD 1 INT
Brees 67 for 105 (63.8%) 47 TD 0 INT
Peyton 40 for 66 (60.6%) 30 TD 0 INT
Brady 52 for 107 (48.6) 38 TD 2 INT
Romo 45 for 84 (53.6%) 29 TD 0 INT

Scroll to the right of the link for all QB
Link - ( New Window )
Whoever stated that Eli is a good QB playing poorly,  
Geeman : 11/11/2013 1:46 pm : link
Is the best way to describe in best right now. I believe it was either MOM or M.S. so you guys get the cred there.
It's clear that Coughlin is frustrated by his play and the total amount of TO's. That said, we have to ride or die with Eli. There's no other choice and I believe he can can and will play better. If he does, the Giants will win the East.
I was typing a post but Joe beat me to it: Eli sucks near the end zone  
Kyle : 11/11/2013 1:47 pm : link
All the derision for guys "padding their stats" down inside the 5-10 is reversing the causation: they're getting those attempts and scores because they're very good at it. They're not being force fed to make them look good, they get the opportunities BECAUSE they're good.
Maybe it's my own perception bias..  
arcarsenal : 11/11/2013 1:50 pm : link
But I feel like the plays called when we're in goal to go situations are horribly predictable. It seems like it's almost always 1 of 3 things: inside running play, fade, shotgun draw.

There are so many other things you can do there but it seems like we stick to the few things we're comfortable with.
RE: dep  
dep026 : 11/11/2013 1:54 pm : link
In comment 11332019 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
in the last three years, Eli is also 1st in interceptions in goal to go situations. (Not that 3 is a significant amount or anything, but INTs in those siuations are rare)

His pass attempts in these spots are lower than many QBs, but there is also a wide gap in production that goes well beyond attempts. These guys aren't way more productive inside the 10 because coaches are trying to pad stats. They're padding their stats relative to Eli in that area of the field because they are much better than him in that area of the field. Much of it could be due to the fact that accuracy has never been his strongest point and is paramount in those tight windows in that condensed field

QBs in goal to go situations since 2011 (keep in mind Peyton missed all of 2011)...

Eli 29 for 72 (40.3%) 21 TD 3 INT
Rodgers 59 for 88 (67.0%) 42 TD 1 INT
Brees 67 for 105 (63.8%) 47 TD 0 INT
Peyton 40 for 66 (60.6%) 30 TD 0 INT
Brady 52 for 107 (48.6) 38 TD 2 INT
Romo 45 for 84 (53.6%) 29 TD 0 INT

Scroll to the right of the link for all QB Link - ( New Window )


Kyle and Joe...

I agree that Eli might not be the best QB inside goal to go... but he has never had a TE since shockey and absolutely no RB to utilitze down in that territory. Also, his best WR needs room to operate to have success.

Nicks is suppose to be that guy inside the 10 and has never panned out.
QB hits have a cumulative effect...  
GloryDayz : 11/11/2013 1:59 pm : link
Getting hit often has a bigger effect on QBs than taking big hit every now and then. Players get hit in football... their body/minds are used to it. They probably can deal with the pain if they are not "injured".

But if a QB is [u]constantly[u] getting hit, rushed, harassed, even if they're nothing major hit everything gets thrown off. He's suddenly paying more attention to the pocket and the incoming rushers, and less to the defenders in coverage. H starts not seeing defenders, his passes are rushed and off, the mechanics are gone.. etc. Which I think is exactly what happened on the pick 6 yesterday.

Not excusing Eli, he's definitely having a bad year, and if we have any chance he has to improve considerably, but its understandable if not expected.
Let me clear something up.  
Geeman : 11/11/2013 2:00 pm : link
When i posed the question whether Eli was the weakest link, I was looking at it going forward. The interior of our Oline is the weakest area of the team with the exception of ST , but the way I was looking at it, was what I was most concerned about vs least. Right now, I am more concerned about Eli then I am about our Oline, WR's and RBs to be honest.
He made some good throws yesterday so it's not like he completely sucked. But given our small margin for error, he knows full well he cannot throw a pick 6 in that situation. Just under 2 minutes left before the half and all his TOs and the Defense playing great, that's the only way you can lose that game. That pick was really that bad to me.
If you are more concerned with Eli than the interior OL  
JCin332 : 11/11/2013 2:40 pm : link
I don't know what to tell you..2 time SB MVP..he will play better and the 3rd trophy will be even sweeter..

Im not looking to replace Eli  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 2:49 pm : link
at this point every Giant fan should come to accept him for his faults and his strengths. He is an incredibly frustrating player to discuss because his career is so unique.

This is a pretty staggering Eli stat..... I don't like when people throw out the stat that Eli leads the NFL in INTs since 2004. It's misleading and in many ways unfair to him, given that there aren't many QBs who have been playing since 2004. You're basically saying he has more INT that Peyton, Brady, Brees, Palmer, many of whom have also missed time in that timespan

But heres the thing... Eli Manning also leads the NFL in INTs since 2005. Eli Manning leads the NFL in INTs since 2006. Eli Manning leads the NFL in INTS since 2008. Since 2009. Since 2010. Since 2011. Since 2012. And he leads this current season

Thats unbeievable
I forgot 2007  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 2:50 pm : link
he also leads the league since 07. He is the league leader no matter when you want to cut the sample
RE: Maybe it's my own perception bias..  
drkenneth : 11/11/2013 2:51 pm : link
In comment 11332039 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
But I feel like the plays called when we're in goal to go situations are horribly predictable. It seems like it's almost always 1 of 3 things: inside running play, fade, shotgun draw.

There are so many other things you can do there but it seems like we stick to the few things we're comfortable with.


Agree 100% here. The system is a part of the problem right now, and has been for some time. I really think it's time for Gilbride to go. I just don't see how TC stays and lets Gilbride go.

If Jason Garrett gets canned, he may be a good fit. TC is comfortable with him, and I think would be great for Eli (and this offense).

This system makes things look a lot harder than they need to be, especially in today's NFL.
Do we think it's Eli or the system?  
drkenneth : 11/11/2013 2:53 pm : link
Do we think he is capable of playing better? The only way to find out is a change in system.
DrKenneth  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 2:58 pm : link
of course he can play better and will. He has had stretches this bad before, just usually not to start a season. He's had 2nd halves just as bad as this first half was.

yeah, well, see, I think that's misguided.  
Great White Ghost : 11/11/2013 3:19 pm : link
I', willing to bet that after you clean up all the other problems you mentioned, you would find there is no QB problem. I would go so far to say I think it's stupid to even contemplate changing the QB before taking care of the O-line and TEs at the very least.the idea of taking care of the QB position first , as that is, as you say, the biggest problem, I think is not only wrong but is going about it in entirely the wrong way.I dont see many other QBs coming in and doing better with no O-line, no RBS to speak of, no TEs, and in fact I personally believe that had we had another QB they might well have gotten knocked out for the season by now.
Eli''s still good  
jLefty : 11/11/2013 3:22 pm : link
but the recent QB's seem to be more agile, able to scramble better. He is what he is. A good QB who can really throw the ball. Like the throw to Nicks down the sidelines.Nice throws to Randle.and a bunch to Cruz.
Speaking beyond this thread and 2013 in particular  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 3:48 pm : link
As a Giant fan I am beyond thrilled by Eli's 07 and 11 playoff runs. Best experiences of my life as a sports fan. That's the Giant fan in me speaking. The football fan in me speaking is also at times frustrated by those two runs and the way they stand out from the rest of his career. It's something that's tough to reconcile given the unique career he has had, and can be very frustrating when we start ranking QBs here trhough the league

People want to refer to him as a two time SB MVP. And he is that guy. He is the guy who went 15 TDs vs 2 picks in 2 playoff runs and won two superbowls with late drives. Outplaying HOF QBs in the process left and right. He was no bystander (especially in 2011, but not in 07 either). This was not Trent Dilfer.

But he's also this guy..... The guy who has at most been a top 5 QB for one season in his life, and this is year 10. The guy who is by far the biggest turnover machine of the era. The guy who has frankly been an average QB at best in the second half of the regular season in his career, presided over many 2nd half collapses. All this is also a bigger sample than those 2 playoff runs.

There is no one I can think of who has had a career like this in any sport. None. He is a total anomaly in terms of career paths ive seen. I say this all as someone who isn't ready to make any change at the position either
Amazing all this talk of Eli  
JCin332 : 11/11/2013 3:48 pm : link
leading the league in int's from this season or that..

He also leads the NFL in Super Bowl wins and MVP's since the 2007 season..

Wish you made that post  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 3:50 pm : link
before i made mine
Bottom line is in sports  
JCin332 : 11/11/2013 3:52 pm : link
when you have the opportunity to win it all the best thing you can do is win that championship and he has done it twice..
RE: Speaking beyond this thread and 2013 in particular  
drkenneth : 11/11/2013 3:53 pm : link
In comment 11332376 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
As a Giant fan I am beyond thrilled by Eli's 07 and 11 playoff runs. Best experiences of my life as a sports fan. That's the Giant fan in me speaking. The football fan in me speaking is also at times frustrated by those two runs and the way they stand out from the rest of his career. It's something that's tough to reconcile given the unique career he has had, and can be very frustrating when we start ranking QBs here trhough the league

People want to refer to him as a two time SB MVP. And he is that guy. He is the guy who went 15 TDs vs 2 picks in 2 playoff runs and won two superbowls with late drives. Outplaying HOF QBs in the process left and right. He was no bystander (especially in 2011, but not in 07 either). This was not Trent Dilfer.

But he's also this guy..... The guy who has at most been a top 5 QB for one season in his life, and this is year 10. The guy who is by far the biggest turnover machine of the era. The guy who has frankly been an average QB at best in the second half of the regular season in his career, presided over many 2nd half collapses. All this is also a bigger sample than those 2 playoff runs.

There is no one I can think of who has had a career like this in any sport. None. He is a total anomaly in terms of career paths ive seen. I say this all as someone who isn't ready to make any change at the position either


MoM- I agree 100% wiht you above statement. But, the question moving forward (2014 and beyond) is: Is Eli a product of this offensive system and coaching? This team as a whole has been terribly inconsistent in the TC era, which mirrors your statement above. The team has been up and down, not just Eli.

This leads me to believe there is a 30TD/10Int Eli in there somewhere. This team needs a change.
Not so bad,  
oldog : 11/11/2013 4:22 pm : link
so far this year has been worth the vet minimum, say 600K. Still owes us $19,400,000. He'll have to show up the rest of the way in, and imagine the playoffs, if he still owes us $17 million or so.
MoM  
dep026 : 11/11/2013 4:25 pm : link
more polarizing than Peyton?

I think Peyton is the most polarizing athlete, ever. Best regular season by far. Meh QB in the playoffs. Eli is the total opposite.

Strange family. Cooper is probably the only normal one.
How is Eli the total opposite?  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/11/2013 4:31 pm : link
He's been in the league 10 years.

Been in the playoffs 5 times. Obviously got 2 rings, which I'm not discrediting. But one and done in all the other 3 years. (2 Tds, 6 INTS).

Also a part of more than a couple second half swoons where some big games would have meant making it into the playoffs.
I haven't read through  
Bleedin Blue : 11/11/2013 4:42 pm : link
all the posts but I'm sure someone posted,"Is this guy for real"!!! Please stop the insanity!!!
dep  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 4:43 pm : link
There have been a lot more athletes in all sports with careers similar to Peyton than there are to Eli is what I am saying. Great regular season player who sees a decline in postseason play (although its not like hes been totally terrible) is something far more common than a guy who has frankly been an average regular season performer putting on his superman cape twice in the playoffs and going all the way
No  
PaulN : 11/11/2013 4:44 pm : link
Eli has been bad because his team is bad. Its that simple.
I didn't read past "the offensive line has stabilized".  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 11/11/2013 4:47 pm : link
They were terrible yesterday.
RE: How is Eli the total opposite?  
dep026 : 11/11/2013 4:49 pm : link
In comment 11332462 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
He's been in the league 10 years.

Been in the playoffs 5 times. Obviously got 2 rings, which I'm not discrediting. But one and done in all the other 3 years. (2 Tds, 6 INTS).

Also a part of more than a couple second half swoons where some big games would have meant making it into the playoffs.


Peyton is a better regular season QB than playoff QB
Eli is a better playoff QB than a regular season QB.
To be fair, "stabilized" doesn't have to mean anything good.  
Riggies : 11/11/2013 4:51 pm : link
Because they are stably awful and the line-up has become a stable group, in terms of being the same five guys.

Not that Geeman meant it either way.
RE: How is Eli the total opposite?  
dep026 : 11/11/2013 4:51 pm : link
In comment 11332462 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
He's been in the league 10 years.

Been in the playoffs 5 times. Obviously got 2 rings, which I'm not discrediting. But one and done in all the other 3 years. (2 Tds, 6 INTS).

Also a part of more than a couple second half swoons where some big games would have meant making it into the playoffs.


2009 and 2010 were strange seasons. The defense quit on Sheridan half way through the year. And we make the playoffs if not for the Philly debacle in 2010. Also, the defense the following week against GB was totally putrid.

And while his 3 other games of 1 and dones hurt his playoff stats, he was 16-25 with 2 TDs and 1 INT on the road agaisnt Philly. Which isnt awful. I actually think he led them to a game tying TD drive with about 3:00 to go.
Playoff stats  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/11/2013 4:57 pm : link
Peyton- 20 games- 63.21%, 35 tds, 21 ints

vs

Eli - 11 games, 61.52%, 17 touchdowns, 8 ints.

Not exactly much better stats.
Dep  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/11/2013 4:58 pm : link
not trying to put words in your mouth. But I've seen people try to completely dismiss Peyton because of his playoff woes and act like Eli is the better player because of it.
Some guys like Jim Plunkett  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 4:59 pm : link
won multiple SBs while having a way worse regular season career than Eli's, but those aren't the examples im talking about. What sets Eli apart here and makes his career unique is the driving force role he played in those runs, along with the pass rush. Those Raider offenses had more success running the ball than throwing it. They weren't Plunkett centric. they won a SB with a different QB in the same era

Eli had a good run in 07. He had a great run in 11. And you can't diminish his role on those teams by hyping up the relative strength of either team, because neither was loaded
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 11/11/2013 5:06 pm : link
In comment 11332517 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
not trying to put words in your mouth. But I've seen people try to completely dismiss Peyton because of his playoff woes and act like Eli is the better player because of it.


My point was how dominating Peyton is in the regular season, and then like Joe points out he becomes just a regular run of the mill QB. Eli has had a lot of good regular seasons, but then two playoff runs, he looks like the greatest QB in the league.

Eli has never been better than peyton, well it 2011 he was obviously. But if Eli can somehow win 1-2 more SBs and Peyton wins 1 more - its just going to spark up controversy.
Eli  
blue42 : 11/11/2013 5:50 pm : link
can play better and he will.He's not the weak link.
He's one of them on the 2013 New York Giants,  
kmed : 11/11/2013 6:18 pm : link
no doubt. It says nothing about Eli in years past or Eli in the future, but this years Eli Manning SO FAR has been a weak link.
It sounds weird to say this far into a career like his...  
arcarsenal : 11/11/2013 6:29 pm : link
But if we were to change offensive systems relatively soon and fix the interior of the OL, I think his best statistical year yet is probably still to come.
I would guess it's someone else,  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/11/2013 6:58 pm : link
but do we know who's had the most pick 6's the past 5 years?
Jim  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 7:18 pm : link
Since 2009...

Stafford 12
Palmer 12
Brees 10
Eli 9
Schaub 9
Peyton, Rivers and Hasselbeck 8

Since 2010, its Palmer 10, Eli and Brees 9

Per pro football reference play finder
4 of those Stafford 12  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/11/2013 7:20 pm : link
came in his rookie 09 season
MoM  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/11/2013 8:00 pm : link
dwarfage.
This is what Eli has been..  
Sean in PA : 11/11/2013 9:38 pm : link
2011 was by far his best year and this year has been a very bad year, but he has never been a guy to be a stat machine. He throws a lot of picks and makes some lousy decisions, that's who he is. He is far from a perfect QB and he is not Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, or Brees when it comes to the regular season, aside from 2011.

However, I wouldn't change a thing about his career. He has taken us to the mountain top TWICE. That is what it is all about, that is why we root.

When Eli is retired, I will remember the money throws during the playoff runs. I'll remember all the hits he took in SF in what was a throwback, hard hitting NFC title game. I'll think of the 3rd and 15 to Manningham to take the lead in that game. I'll think of the absolutely perfect throw to Manningham in the Super Bowl.

If Eli plays like shit the rest of his career, nothing changes what he has accomplished for this franchise.

Aside from the top guys, the QB position is very fluid anyway. The ADD media loves to rank all these guys, but it is ever changing. Rivers was up, then he was down, now he's up again. Flacco was great last postseason, now you don't hear about him. Big Ben was up, now he isn't. Eli was the man in 2011, now he isn't. Who cares?

Eli has given us a lifetime of amazing memories.
Game set match  
JCin332 : 11/12/2013 9:41 am : link
Sean..
If you take out of the discussion  
LG in NYC : 11/12/2013 9:52 am : link
his past accomplishments, and that he will likely bounce back and play better next year and beyond... and do not turn this into a larger discussion of his "elite-ness"... and only focus on the question in the OP... then YES, Eli is one of the biggest issues on the team right now.

The D is playing well on the whole. The O Line is not good but is good enough most plays... and the running game has ticked up a notch... while leaves Eli, who is playing bad to middling QB right now.
The OLine  
dep026 : 11/12/2013 9:57 am : link
has not once played a decent game all year. Dont fool yourself.
The o-line has been decent the past few weeks  
MetsAreBack : 11/12/2013 10:40 am : link
its only putrid games were actually KC and Carolina, two teams that have wreaked havoc on a lot of opposing offenses, particularly Carolina.

You can blame all the players around Eli if you like, dep. I know he's given us a lot of great memories so the reaction as a fan is to blame the guys that haven't taken us to the mountain top so many times before.

But bottom line is #10 gets allocated 17% of the team's salary cap dollars. Did you think, when so many of your resources are tied up in just one player, that you would be able to get him the best resources around him too?

Of course not.

When you consider the resources tied up in our Defense are just 39% of cap dollars - its a minor miracle how well they've played. When ~40% of your cap dollars are invested on one side of the ball and they turn out to be league average... take that and run to the bank.

Every team is trying to win - when you pick at the bottom of the draft for almost a decade straight, and when you have so little money left over to pay the other 52 guys on your roster... well that guy you're allocating 17% of cap dollars to better be an all-pro. He should be able to accurately throw a screen pass with touch on it so that the RB can make a play, hit a wide open WR 7 yards in front of him in 15 mph winds (I dont give a rats ass if there was some pressure - that's a throw a high schooler can make), not sail a throw to a wide open TE 20 yards downfield to end a game, and its not too much to ask that he not lead the league in INTs.

So maybe the thread title is misleading because certainly Eli isn't the worst player on the field.... but as I look at it, in salary cap dollar allocation terms, yes he is.

The guys up front may suck (though overblown here - watch a Falcons, Packers or even Seahawks game this year and tell me those lines are much better.. and spare me the eye test, give me some facts)... but as a group this unit is paid $9 mil, or 7-8% of the overall team salary cap. Two guys collectively taking in $13 million in cap dollars (11% of total) are on IR .....

Reese cant go shake a money tree or get around the cap. This team's stars have to play like stars, and #10 hasnt....
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