Giants defense has really brought this team back from the dead. The Oline has stablilzed. The wides have been healthy all season. Brown has showed up finally and along with Peyton and Connor's have gotten the run game going. Fewell has simplified the defense and they have responded well especially with the Beason acquisition suring up the LBer unit and defense as a whole. Secondary is playing solid too. Give Rolle a lot of credit for stepping his game up along with Thomas and Hill back there and Prince is quietly having a solid if unspectacular season too.
Eli has to play better, it's that simple. I don't want to hear anymore excuses. This line is not great, but it doesn't have to be, it's good enough right now to win with. Eli needs to step up his game and cut out turnovers and his skittish play.
It has nothing to do with the running game.
It has nothing to do with the receivers.
Eli isn't a good QB and I wish we never drafted him.
Sure he used to be good but then he got bad.
Motherfucking stupidity/
throw and he will be God again for a few weeks
Eli isn't under nearly as much duress as he was earlier in the season. These throws he has missed he wasn't even under pressure....smh.
It's sad the excuses that are still made around here.
The more we play, the more tape on our adjustments is available for all teams. So now things get harder for us. Except for slants, and come backs. We don't have much. Our X hasn't done shit this year. We have ZERO TE contribution. We dink and dunk, and we are hysterically bad at screen passes.
All in all, our offense is broken. We need to fix it in the off season in terms of personnel and scheme to fit that personnel. Blaming Eli as the weak link isn't close to accurate.
The good news is that -- if we have a pick up in O-line protection and Eli passing -- then we can win quite a few of the remaining games.
Translation: we may get to watch a few late, MEANINGFUL, games!!!
Go Giants.
Who knows, maybe he can throw 7 td's against Wash in the last game, to "pad" his stats like last year?
To blame it all on Eli is crazy, of course. To give him a free pass, is crazier...
He hasn't been a top 10 QB since 2011. If he turns it on, we could make a run at the division.
If he could play better this team could really kick into another gear I feel.
But this season, he looks jumpy and quick triggered. Yesterday, Oakland didn't come close to pounding his ass the way San Fran did in that Championship game, but Eli looked rattled and uncomfortable for most of yesterday's game.
Stupid mistakes still occur with fumbles. And on top of that teams are throwing the kitchen sink blitzing because they don't respect our OL. I wouldn't respect them either if I am an opposing DC.
You can't run a screen to save your life. Why not run WR or TE screens at least to mix it up? Or is that asking too much from our staff? Again, can we get the TE involved as a safety valve?
What a shit show of an offense. Again, you can only do so much before both kickers get action. The Punter and the PK kicking FGs left and right.
If he could play better this team could really kick into another gear I feel.
I would say the o-line has been playing well the last 5 games starting with the 1st Eagles game and the Chicago game (even though they lost).
Yes the line was terrible when they went up against Carolina and Kansas City. But a strong case can be made that this season (using hindsight), those 2 teams have had the best Front 7's in the NFL.
Eli isn't under nearly as much duress as he was earlier in the season. These throws he has missed he wasn't even under pressure....smh.
It's sad the excuses that are still made around here.
Which throws? the only big throw he missed yesterday without getting rushed was the deep ball to Cruz when he should have thrown to the inside rather than the outside. Other than that, the "2nd Cruz TD" that was not hit was a throw he was forced to make early because there was a defender right in his face. The pick 6 was a throw he was forced to make early due to pressure. Eli should have had 3 TD passes yesterday. Nicks was interfered with, Cruz dropped 1 and Randle caught 1. It's not excuses, it's what happened.
He is a great, non-statistical QB(though stat lines relative to other eras are pretty done good) who will more than likely get his shit together for a playoff push..There are no guarantees of course and this might just be one of those seasons, where murphy's law kicks in and if so, so be it..
Eli is a strong student of the game and is totally aware of where he is at present and what needs to be done to correct it for when it counts..
My money(strongly) is on Eli
There are just way, way too many BBIers who view any negative comments about Eli as either uninformed or disloyal, or both. It's a very predictable pattern that crops up after poor performances. And given that Eli is having a terrible season, we've been getting an awful amount of chirping.
His throws were high (typical) at the beginning of the game. He threw behind receivers on a few crossing patterns in the red zone. He missed a wide open Cruz for a TD that would have sealed the game for certain.
The pick-6 was just another example this year of an awful decision from a 10 year veteran player that should be playing better.
Nevertheless, we got nothing else better at Qb, so bring on Green Bay!
a much bigger sample before the thought of Eli being a QB that is in decline gets in my head
If Eli isnt having a perfect year (along with the OL and the recievers) we are going to see it malfunction like it is now.
Simplify and watch the players all 'magically' transform like the D did!
We're all ecstatic that Brown ran for what he did, but let's not put that on blocking, the guy spent most of his time carrying people on his back. And any time Oakland brought more than 4 people up front, Eli had someone in his face almost instantly.
Barring the idiotic pick 6 (which was entirely Eli's fault), what was it about his play that was so bad? He overthrew a guy a couple of times, but he spent the entire afternoon on the run.
We're all ecstatic that Brown ran for what he did, but let's not put that on blocking, the guy spent most of his time carrying people on his back. And any time Oakland brought more than 4 people up front, Eli had someone in his face almost instantly.
Barring the idiotic pick 6 (which was entirely Eli's fault), what was it about his play that was so bad? He overthrew a guy a couple of times, but he spent the entire afternoon on the run.
JCN, since the text in your subject applies to and is basically a quote of mine, im going to go ahead and assume the body of your message applies to me too. Ive never once said the OL has been fine. It hasn't been, though it has gotten better and they have had a few games where they weren't a glaring issue. They play a part in his struggles of course, But Eli independent of that hasn't been very good, and hes certainly not raising the level of his supporting cast as elite QBs do.
Tom Coughlin basically threw his arms up in the presser after the first Eagle game and might as well have said "I have no clue what the fuck this guy is doing right now". At least since then he's largely avoided turnovers
That said, here's something y'all might be able to agree on: This team is simply not good enough to make the playoffs unless Eli finds his A-game, which has been missing for a long stretch now. Conversely, if Eli is at his best, this team can and maybe even should win the division. That's how good he is, and that's how important he is. The team is built around him. And when you make a hundred million dollars and the team is built around you, you're going to get a bigger slice of the blame pie than the guy in front of you who can't block your grandmother.
Sure, Eli has been shaky so far this season. But that can turn around real fast. And longer term, I don't have a concern about him at QB!
2011: Top 4 QB behind Rodgers, Brees, Brady (arguably #1 after playoffs)
2012: 8th-15th range QB, an up an down "Ok" season
2012: ~25th best QB so far, maybe lower based solely on stats
Eli has always been inconsistent so that's why I'm not really too worried about his long term prognosis. I think he'll return to being a very good QB in the near future. While he has a low floor (what we're seeing now) he also has a HOF ceiling (2011).
The OL and running game were garbage in 2011, Eli put that offense on his back along with Cruz. The OL and running game is garbage this year, but Eli can't seem to overcome that. I think at some point last season the defenses around the league said "fuck it, they're really one dimensional" and just ignored the running game. Now it's up to Gilbride to adjust to that and so far he has done an awful job. And Eli has done a poor job executing the plays this year.
Bottomline: Eli needs to play better. He has the talent and he has the experience, he will play better but it's just a matter of when.
Eli has thrown more picks than any other QB drafted since 2004. I know he's won two SBs, but that is an alarming statistic. And this year, he's been flat awful.
Or, the throw simply sucked. Period.
this post should just get a sticky so we can avoid all Eli threads going forward this year. thank you!
It's not like everything else on the offense is perfect and he just isn't playing well. He is not playing well and a lot of that is on him. His decision making is poor, he isn't seeing the field as well as he usually does but there are also other contributing factors that need to be addressed. I think Eli will bounce back and get back to his Elite ways, but he must have an OL and he must have a running game.
And again, the short passing game, throwing bullets at the RB's feet.. there's just no touch.
I wouldn't call him the weak link but I do think he needs to elevate his play a little bit if we want to really make a run here and the pick 6's have to stop. They've been absolutely killer.
1. TE play is BY FAR the weakest link to the offense. They cant run, catch, block, or have self awareness. It's a very poor group and give Eli absolutely nothing as far as an out let.
2. OLine comes in Number 2 for me. The interior of our line is just absolutely dreadful. Diehl should not be a starter. Cordle should not be an NFL player and Boothe looks like a backup right now. They give Eli nowhere to step up into the pocket and throw. Just look at what happens when Eli scrambles or moves in the pocket. Its always to the left or to the right. Rarrely up the middle since our interior is getting blown back. Pugh and Beatty have had moments where they struggled, but look to be at least stable on the ends of the lines.
3a. Eli
3b. WRs
These two positions go hand in hand because they have not been on the same page all year. Eli's throw yesterday was inexcusable. Cant make that throw in that situation. But many times this year we got WRs runing one route and the QB throwing it to another. The other day, someone on ESPn did a really good job breaking down how a WR/QB mix up proves costly. Many times Eli has already thrown the ball, and then the WR makes another move. Again, the result is ugly - but its the confusion that is the problem. Maybe its the system? But its absolutely killing the Giants. Nicks has been mediocre this year. Cruz has be nreally quiet the last few weeks. Randle was nowhere to be found against Philly, but had a good game against Oakland.
The problem to me, IMO is the big play potential is down because we cant get the down field passing game going. No teams respect the run. Safties are playing well over the top. And forcing us now to play it safe. And if we did want to throw deep, we dont give Eli enough time.
4. RBs. While not the most talented in the league, we have shown signs of life the last few weeks so there is hope. If we can ever really get a grund game going, it can only help our play action.
So when discussing the weakest link, TEs/OLs have to top the list. However, I dont think 1 or 2 is ever going to get much better this year, so its on Eli AND the wide receivers to stop making mistakes and make big plays for us in order for us to have a shot to make a run for the playoffs.
Or, the throw simply sucked. Period.
Yes, Cruz has already come out and said he was 'surprised' by the throw because he says the coverage dictated to him that the ball wasn't coming his way so he wasn't expecting it. You can see the look of surprise on him after the INT. The column is below.
Why'd you throw it Eli? - ( New Window )
Cant do it on this one though. However, if he continues to throw 1 INT for every 3 games played..... i'll be quite happy.
Irregardless of that he has been atrocious. 11TDs to 16 INTs? 55% comp? That's Blaine Gabbert shit.
Irregardless of that he has been atrocious. 11TDs to 16 INTs? 55% comp? That's Blaine Gabbert shit.
The INTs are a problem, but we have never pad Eli's stats like other top QBs get theirs padded. In the last 3-4 years - Eli is something like 12th in TD passes inside the 10. Brees/Peyton/Rodgers..... they are gunslingers inside the 10.
When Dallas has their problems on OL it is up the middle and Romo looks bad. Cutler had nobody in the middle and took a beating and looks bad. You can help the tackles on the outside, but if the man directly in front of the QB struggles, it has a cumulative effect.
This does not absolve Eli at all - he has made some atrocious throws, some while actually having time (missing Myers in Chi the biggest example)
An improved running game will help because it will cut down on the 3rd and 8 over plays, where the line has been most suspect
He has 2 hail mary ints and 2 late ints down by 10+ this year to try and make a play. He also has an INT off a players foot.
Now, lets also factor in the 3 breakaway tds we lost, that didn't turn into TD passes (Myers, Randle, Cruz, all going in, fell on their own). Were talking close to a 25 TD season and 10-11 pick, so far. How would you feel about 10 if our Offense actually did their part this year?
Eli is not playing well this year, we can all agree to that. But the OL is terrible, and his teammates are simply killing him with well placed TD drops all season long.
We need the C from Cleveland to not get franchised, work on replacing our Guards, and things will look much better from a frantic Eli always under pressure, in 2014.
They've committed a huge % of the cap to Eli, he has to be better than this.
His pass attempts in these spots are lower than many QBs, but there is also a wide gap in production that goes well beyond attempts. These guys aren't way more productive inside the 10 because coaches are trying to pad stats. They're padding their stats relative to Eli in that area of the field because they are much better than him in that area of the field. Much of it could be due to the fact that accuracy has never been his strongest point and is paramount in those tight windows in that condensed field
QBs in goal to go situations since 2011 (keep in mind Peyton missed all of 2011)...
Eli 29 for 72 (40.3%) 21 TD 3 INT
Rodgers 59 for 88 (67.0%) 42 TD 1 INT
Brees 67 for 105 (63.8%) 47 TD 0 INT
Peyton 40 for 66 (60.6%) 30 TD 0 INT
Brady 52 for 107 (48.6) 38 TD 2 INT
Romo 45 for 84 (53.6%) 29 TD 0 INT
Scroll to the right of the link for all QB
Link - ( New Window )
It's clear that Coughlin is frustrated by his play and the total amount of TO's. That said, we have to ride or die with Eli. There's no other choice and I believe he can can and will play better. If he does, the Giants will win the East.
There are so many other things you can do there but it seems like we stick to the few things we're comfortable with.
His pass attempts in these spots are lower than many QBs, but there is also a wide gap in production that goes well beyond attempts. These guys aren't way more productive inside the 10 because coaches are trying to pad stats. They're padding their stats relative to Eli in that area of the field because they are much better than him in that area of the field. Much of it could be due to the fact that accuracy has never been his strongest point and is paramount in those tight windows in that condensed field
QBs in goal to go situations since 2011 (keep in mind Peyton missed all of 2011)...
Eli 29 for 72 (40.3%) 21 TD 3 INT
Rodgers 59 for 88 (67.0%) 42 TD 1 INT
Brees 67 for 105 (63.8%) 47 TD 0 INT
Peyton 40 for 66 (60.6%) 30 TD 0 INT
Brady 52 for 107 (48.6) 38 TD 2 INT
Romo 45 for 84 (53.6%) 29 TD 0 INT
Scroll to the right of the link for all QB Link - ( New Window )
Kyle and Joe...
I agree that Eli might not be the best QB inside goal to go... but he has never had a TE since shockey and absolutely no RB to utilitze down in that territory. Also, his best WR needs room to operate to have success.
Nicks is suppose to be that guy inside the 10 and has never panned out.
But if a QB is [u]constantly[u] getting hit, rushed, harassed, even if they're nothing major hit everything gets thrown off. He's suddenly paying more attention to the pocket and the incoming rushers, and less to the defenders in coverage. H starts not seeing defenders, his passes are rushed and off, the mechanics are gone.. etc. Which I think is exactly what happened on the pick 6 yesterday.
Not excusing Eli, he's definitely having a bad year, and if we have any chance he has to improve considerably, but its understandable if not expected.
He made some good throws yesterday so it's not like he completely sucked. But given our small margin for error, he knows full well he cannot throw a pick 6 in that situation. Just under 2 minutes left before the half and all his TOs and the Defense playing great, that's the only way you can lose that game. That pick was really that bad to me.
This is a pretty staggering Eli stat..... I don't like when people throw out the stat that Eli leads the NFL in INTs since 2004. It's misleading and in many ways unfair to him, given that there aren't many QBs who have been playing since 2004. You're basically saying he has more INT that Peyton, Brady, Brees, Palmer, many of whom have also missed time in that timespan
But heres the thing... Eli Manning also leads the NFL in INTs since 2005. Eli Manning leads the NFL in INTs since 2006. Eli Manning leads the NFL in INTS since 2008. Since 2009. Since 2010. Since 2011. Since 2012. And he leads this current season
Thats unbeievable
There are so many other things you can do there but it seems like we stick to the few things we're comfortable with.
Agree 100% here. The system is a part of the problem right now, and has been for some time. I really think it's time for Gilbride to go. I just don't see how TC stays and lets Gilbride go.
If Jason Garrett gets canned, he may be a good fit. TC is comfortable with him, and I think would be great for Eli (and this offense).
This system makes things look a lot harder than they need to be, especially in today's NFL.
People want to refer to him as a two time SB MVP. And he is that guy. He is the guy who went 15 TDs vs 2 picks in 2 playoff runs and won two superbowls with late drives. Outplaying HOF QBs in the process left and right. He was no bystander (especially in 2011, but not in 07 either). This was not Trent Dilfer.
But he's also this guy..... The guy who has at most been a top 5 QB for one season in his life, and this is year 10. The guy who is by far the biggest turnover machine of the era. The guy who has frankly been an average QB at best in the second half of the regular season in his career, presided over many 2nd half collapses. All this is also a bigger sample than those 2 playoff runs.
There is no one I can think of who has had a career like this in any sport. None. He is a total anomaly in terms of career paths ive seen. I say this all as someone who isn't ready to make any change at the position either
He also leads the NFL in Super Bowl wins and MVP's since the 2007 season..
People want to refer to him as a two time SB MVP. And he is that guy. He is the guy who went 15 TDs vs 2 picks in 2 playoff runs and won two superbowls with late drives. Outplaying HOF QBs in the process left and right. He was no bystander (especially in 2011, but not in 07 either). This was not Trent Dilfer.
But he's also this guy..... The guy who has at most been a top 5 QB for one season in his life, and this is year 10. The guy who is by far the biggest turnover machine of the era. The guy who has frankly been an average QB at best in the second half of the regular season in his career, presided over many 2nd half collapses. All this is also a bigger sample than those 2 playoff runs.
There is no one I can think of who has had a career like this in any sport. None. He is a total anomaly in terms of career paths ive seen. I say this all as someone who isn't ready to make any change at the position either
MoM- I agree 100% wiht you above statement. But, the question moving forward (2014 and beyond) is: Is Eli a product of this offensive system and coaching? This team as a whole has been terribly inconsistent in the TC era, which mirrors your statement above. The team has been up and down, not just Eli.
This leads me to believe there is a 30TD/10Int Eli in there somewhere. This team needs a change.
I think Peyton is the most polarizing athlete, ever. Best regular season by far. Meh QB in the playoffs. Eli is the total opposite.
Strange family. Cooper is probably the only normal one.
Been in the playoffs 5 times. Obviously got 2 rings, which I'm not discrediting. But one and done in all the other 3 years. (2 Tds, 6 INTS).
Also a part of more than a couple second half swoons where some big games would have meant making it into the playoffs.
Been in the playoffs 5 times. Obviously got 2 rings, which I'm not discrediting. But one and done in all the other 3 years. (2 Tds, 6 INTS).
Also a part of more than a couple second half swoons where some big games would have meant making it into the playoffs.
Peyton is a better regular season QB than playoff QB
Eli is a better playoff QB than a regular season QB.
Not that Geeman meant it either way.
Been in the playoffs 5 times. Obviously got 2 rings, which I'm not discrediting. But one and done in all the other 3 years. (2 Tds, 6 INTS).
Also a part of more than a couple second half swoons where some big games would have meant making it into the playoffs.
2009 and 2010 were strange seasons. The defense quit on Sheridan half way through the year. And we make the playoffs if not for the Philly debacle in 2010. Also, the defense the following week against GB was totally putrid.
And while his 3 other games of 1 and dones hurt his playoff stats, he was 16-25 with 2 TDs and 1 INT on the road agaisnt Philly. Which isnt awful. I actually think he led them to a game tying TD drive with about 3:00 to go.
vs
Eli - 11 games, 61.52%, 17 touchdowns, 8 ints.
Not exactly much better stats.
Eli had a good run in 07. He had a great run in 11. And you can't diminish his role on those teams by hyping up the relative strength of either team, because neither was loaded
My point was how dominating Peyton is in the regular season, and then like Joe points out he becomes just a regular run of the mill QB. Eli has had a lot of good regular seasons, but then two playoff runs, he looks like the greatest QB in the league.
Eli has never been better than peyton, well it 2011 he was obviously. But if Eli can somehow win 1-2 more SBs and Peyton wins 1 more - its just going to spark up controversy.
Stafford 12
Palmer 12
Brees 10
Eli 9
Schaub 9
Peyton, Rivers and Hasselbeck 8
Since 2010, its Palmer 10, Eli and Brees 9
Per pro football reference play finder
However, I wouldn't change a thing about his career. He has taken us to the mountain top TWICE. That is what it is all about, that is why we root.
When Eli is retired, I will remember the money throws during the playoff runs. I'll remember all the hits he took in SF in what was a throwback, hard hitting NFC title game. I'll think of the 3rd and 15 to Manningham to take the lead in that game. I'll think of the absolutely perfect throw to Manningham in the Super Bowl.
If Eli plays like shit the rest of his career, nothing changes what he has accomplished for this franchise.
Aside from the top guys, the QB position is very fluid anyway. The ADD media loves to rank all these guys, but it is ever changing. Rivers was up, then he was down, now he's up again. Flacco was great last postseason, now you don't hear about him. Big Ben was up, now he isn't. Eli was the man in 2011, now he isn't. Who cares?
Eli has given us a lifetime of amazing memories.
The D is playing well on the whole. The O Line is not good but is good enough most plays... and the running game has ticked up a notch... while leaves Eli, who is playing bad to middling QB right now.
You can blame all the players around Eli if you like, dep. I know he's given us a lot of great memories so the reaction as a fan is to blame the guys that haven't taken us to the mountain top so many times before.
But bottom line is #10 gets allocated 17% of the team's salary cap dollars. Did you think, when so many of your resources are tied up in just one player, that you would be able to get him the best resources around him too?
Of course not.
When you consider the resources tied up in our Defense are just 39% of cap dollars - its a minor miracle how well they've played. When ~40% of your cap dollars are invested on one side of the ball and they turn out to be league average... take that and run to the bank.
Every team is trying to win - when you pick at the bottom of the draft for almost a decade straight, and when you have so little money left over to pay the other 52 guys on your roster... well that guy you're allocating 17% of cap dollars to better be an all-pro. He should be able to accurately throw a screen pass with touch on it so that the RB can make a play, hit a wide open WR 7 yards in front of him in 15 mph winds (I dont give a rats ass if there was some pressure - that's a throw a high schooler can make), not sail a throw to a wide open TE 20 yards downfield to end a game, and its not too much to ask that he not lead the league in INTs.
So maybe the thread title is misleading because certainly Eli isn't the worst player on the field.... but as I look at it, in salary cap dollar allocation terms, yes he is.
The guys up front may suck (though overblown here - watch a Falcons, Packers or even Seahawks game this year and tell me those lines are much better.. and spare me the eye test, give me some facts)... but as a group this unit is paid $9 mil, or 7-8% of the overall team salary cap. Two guys collectively taking in $13 million in cap dollars (11% of total) are on IR .....
Reese cant go shake a money tree or get around the cap. This team's stars have to play like stars, and #10 hasnt....