I have seen this mentioned on BBI several times in several threads and I cannot understand why so many think this is the thing to do to fix the OL..
The interior of the Giants OL is its biggest issue with Cordle and Deihl.. This area is the one to fix..
IMO Beatty is fine at the LT spot.. sure he has had a bad game here but I would attribute that as much to his mechanics being a little off as well as the inconsistent line play overall. The OL more than any other groups needs to function as a unit.. you cannot keep moving pieces around every week and expect to find a balance.. Moving him to RT would mean that he would have to get acclimated to doing things different which will further create issues..
There is the though that Pugh should move inside. There are several problems with this.. first off Pugh is not built like a guard.. he is built like a tackle.. He has good feet for a tackle.. He hasnt demonstrated in any way shape or form that he has the hand techniques. power or punch to deal with the 300 pound PLUS guys at DT.. now add that into the fact that he has NEVER PLAYED GUARD...
This is what I dont understand.. is drafting some big name college player with a #1 pick and them moving two people to positions they are not familiar with a FIX ??
Not in my book.. The fix would be drafting or signing FA's who can shore up the interior of the line.. that makes far more sense in my book.
position and that is LT imo. Now if you can get a better LT in the draft and get him off the team somehow so be it. I will leave that to the cap gurus but I imagine he is here for a few years given his recently signed contract.
I think the convo moves away from Jake Matthews type players (i.e. top 5 picks), assume we land in the range of 7 wins, the target changes to guys like WR Marquise Lee or LBs CJ Mosely or Khalil Mack...then you can probably get a top C/OG in the subsequent rounds
the Giants need a top guard. The need right now is greater on the inside than out at tackle. Snee and Diehl days as a starter are over. Both could be playing in their last season in the NFL
Sign them as FAs instead.
1. Top LTs are usually found high in the draft and we should have a high pick looking at our current record.
2. A top LT will probably be our best lineman so you move others around to accomodate.
3. Beatty and Pugh are our only OL worth keeping.
4. We need to fix our OL and our first round pick has to be used for that.
Most if not all of these reasons are flawed but easy to understand. I fully expect Reese to address the interior OL during FA. There may also be tremendous value in the end of the first to middle of the second round for interior OL. That is where I think we will look at an OL. As has been stated, Pugh's best position is probably OT so moving him may or may not make sense. Beatty's only position is LT so putting him anywhere else doesnt make sense.
A few things have to happen for us to draft a top LT in the draft. One, he needs to be the BPA. Two, he is going to have to be able to play a different position other than LT his rookie year. Three, will we save money by trading or cutting Beatty in a couple of years and will it be worth it? If you like the answers to those questions then you take the OT. If not, we have plenty of other holes to fill.
Sorry I wish it could be better. So base on this, the Giants will be drafting any where between the 12th and the 17th pick in next year draft? Yes, the need to improve the interior offensive line is and should be where the Giants should use their first round pick. For me, the best guard in this upcoming draft is... David Yankey, G/OT, Stanford.
currently projected between 30-45.
Both are above average OTs and Pugh is improving each weak. Neither has the size or strength to play on the interior nor has either been tested there. Why would you move your only strengths on a bad OL, instead of drafting good interior lineman and signing them in FA.
like he attacked DT last off season. A couple of mid-tier FAs and a premium pick or two
in the sense that he was in the right place at the right time, and signed a favorable contract, that will haunt the Giants...
The problem with the O-Line is we went into the season counting on Baas and Snee who couldn't stay healthy. Beatty and Pugh may not be all-pros, but they're not the big part of the problem either
No RB and no TEs who can block well have been bigger problems too...as has been well discussed, we've been light years better at RB the past 3 games
True Yankey is draft rated to be pick somewhere between the 30 and 40th pick but that still make him the top rated guard in this draft at this point. Pugh was rated even lower last year but still was the Giants first round pick. The next highest rated true guard is Gabe Jackson and Jackson is rated in the mid to late 50's. Cyril Richardson, could be move to the guard spot but I still a spot after Yankey.
Gabe Jackson. Stanford's other guard, Kevin Danser did a fine job vs. Oregon.
then you'd move Beatty to RT and Pugh to Guard and you've potentially upgraded 3 positions.
so you can take BPA, which could be a top tackle. Pugh can play guard if need be, remember he was going to be a utility type person before Dheil went down.
The Giants like the majority of the NFL do not draft OG from picks 10-20. Outside of last year, Lupati was the highest drafted G in a decade.
But you can also make the argument that we could get worse at three positions.
is that our oline is less than average. The idea is to get better..Do you really think that suddenly after several years of lack of performance on the oline (running, etc) that suddenly it will get better and improve? I doubt it and suggests bringing in better talent. Again the idea is to get better, and select better players than what you already have.
Any manager will tell you that. Hire talent that is better than you, unless they are a job protectionist dipshit.
You can still draft 1 or 2 OL, but I wouldnt go with rookies. You never know if they work out, and how soon.
JR has been very good at getting decent 1 year rental guys. I'd do that and let the rookies try beat them in camp
Now the Giants are into him for a while and unless you can nab a true top tier guy like Joe Thomas you do that in a second but that's not happening anymore. Beatty will never be an all pro and probably not a pro bowler and he's been pretty crappy this year . He wasn't great yesterday again.
He needs help way too much, is a finesse guy, and they tend to run right because again despite the BBI myth he's not a very good run blocker. Is he serviceable at LT, yeah but nobody that 10-15 years from now is going to stand out.
Too many other holes to fill but to not understand why somebody wouldn't want to get a blue goose type guy over him is truly perplexing? Not really.
but the chaos on the line's interior has to be affecting him.
Would you re-sign Boothe to play C, and look for G help.
Do you bring in a Raiola/Goodwin type who are at the end of their careers but don't miss time
Do you give it a go with Baas again
It is harder to find a C than G
a playmaking LB or a top notch interior lineman like a young Chris Snee in the first round.
He is our best OL. By a lot.
With Eli taking 18% of the salary cap there is not much room for the Giants to go out a sign any quality free agents. The also have to worry about signing their own free agents, Hicks and Joseph are there top two and other players. Once again, where do the Giants get the money to sign for a good offensive lineman? Guard is just a must pick and round two may be to late.
That is Hakeem Nicks, not Hicks.
Still, if the Giants elect not to re-sign Boothe and Cordle (let alone Diehl and Snee), they're going to have to sign somebody (or a couple of somebodys) to replace them. My hope is that they can clear enough cap space to sign at least one top-tier FA, but he won't come cheap.
In the 2014 draft, I'd like to see them tap a good C/OG prospect sometime before the 4th round. Maybe not a blue-chipper, but a bona fide red-chipper would be nice.
the interior oline in the off-season? The Tackles are fine and I would not screw with either one of them. They are not the biggest issue with this oline. We need punch and strength in the middle. Boothe to me has also been soft and has, on occasion given up pressure too. He's not as bad as Diehl, but he too is at fault. Can the GIants replace all three interior linemen? Will they or will they try to resign Boothe, and replace Baas and Snee?
I think Reese needs to stop screwing around with potential and get players that can contribute and shore up this oline for another 4-5 years. The offense is barely functional with this line and It needs to be addressed, but I would say only on the interior. A solid Center can do wonders for this line too.
if the Giants win a few more games they won't get a stud tackle in the draft. However if you get the top tackle in the draft are you going to make a guard out of him? If you had the oppurtunity to grab a stud tackle would you pass on it? Change has to come to this offensive line in some form, that is only one possibility.
Giants first pick will be a WR.
posters and sports writers that want to move Pugh. Beatty is OK at LT. We need a good center and guard. One should be a veteran.
is there when the Giants pick, I'd be happy. He wouldn't have to start in the first year with Beatty but you can work him in the second year.
can get a guy who you think is going to be an elite OT, there's a strong argument for doing it and just letting everything else shake out.
A top shelf OT makes life a ton easier for the offense. Being able to win the 1-on-1 on almost every play against the defense's best pass rusher not only neutralizes that pass rusher, but allows help at other spots. Beatty might be OK, but he's not that guy. And he's not close to being that guy. We desperately need 1 or 2 "plus" linemen. Beatty is not that. He's a guy you can get by with. If that "plus" guy is at OLT, it's just a massive boon for the O.
And it's hard to find those guys outside the top of the 1st round. They're pretty easy to identify and they're not widely available. I'm not necessarily advocating for it, but I wouldn't rule it out either if that guy is there when we pick.
that the other tackles taken before Pugh haven't been doing as well as him. You have to be very careful to make your 1st pick another tackle.
I don't think he can do the same thing. Patterson and Rogers were signed to one year contracts. I don't think he can do that on the OL where continuity is important. He's going to have to go with mid-long term contracts and spend more money.
The Giants aren't a good enough team to have their first round pick sit on the bench for a year.
To keep most draft picks on the bench. To think otherwise is foolish.
then would be to draft a LT to sit on the bench behind him, rather than drafting an OG or C who could start
Smart is grabbing a guy who can start 10 years and be All Pro or close to it. If it takes a year or two to get there, so be it.
Baas might be a cap casualty and even if he is back they cannot count on him to stay healthy. Cordle is a backup at best which leaves the Giants with no one in the middle who is reliable. My dream scenario would be for the Giants to sign Alex Mack, assuming he hits free agency, and draft a guard in rounds 2-4. I am really high on Mosley and I hope he is given a fair shot to win either guard spot next year. Hopefully Boothe will be brought back near the minimum to provide excellent depth.
In general I agree with you. Just under these circumstances I don't think the Giants have the luxury of making a first round pick who can't help the team from Day 1.
unless its a Tackle. He learned from Ernie. He's going to focus elsewhere.
The Giants are a center and guard away from being a contender. As long as they can get mediocrity at center and a step-up from Mosely/Brewer, they'll have the luxury of giving a blue goose a year to develop. Beatty is average but they've been winning with average since Jumbo.
is a mystery to me. Practically every person in the football universe agrees on the formula as far positional dominance and how important it is to your team having long term success is QB, LT, RDE, DT, CB, MLB, S and then whatever.
If we get a chance to get a beefcake LT, we take it. Damn the contract numbers.
Neither of us will be making that decision, so we'll just have to wait and complain about it later. :)
Nicely done but I haven't complained since Ernie. I really like Reese because I can understand his bets whether they work or not.