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Tuck states case to stay a Giant

Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/14/2013 9:35 am
Thought this deserved own thread.
Tuck states case to stay a Giant - ( New Window )
Ball will be in his court  
jlukes : 11/14/2013 9:36 am : link
I am sure the Giants will want him back, but I am sure Tuck will want more money than the Giants are willing to pay him
Good guy to have around.  
kmed : 11/14/2013 9:37 am : link
As long as he realizes that he's just not the same guy he used to be and is willing to play for a lot less and possibly rotate, I'm all for it.
tuck  
BigBluePrestige : 11/14/2013 9:37 am : link
Aint gonna get much more than what we offer
1.5 sacks this season.  
Curtis in VA : 11/14/2013 9:38 am : link
.
he signed a relatively cheap deal when he was a  
Blue Baller : 11/14/2013 9:41 am : link
blossoming star

I doubt he will hold out for extravagant money now

its really a question if the Giants want him here or not  
Blue Baller : 11/14/2013 9:42 am : link


I don't see money being the issue
jlukes,  
Randy in CT : 11/14/2013 9:44 am : link
I'm not so sure that Tuck will look to break the bank. I think a fair deal keeps him here.
Tuck could have had a monster game vs Oakland  
Jimmy Googs : 11/14/2013 9:45 am : link
I recall him missing Pryor for sacks a couple of times and he nearly came up with a pick-6 of his own.

Although I think he might have been going against a rookie lineman most of the day...
NYG have an anemic pass rush  
Buck Dharma : 11/14/2013 9:48 am : link
Tuck has become Eric Dorsey.He's one of the guys that has been kept around a year too long.
Great year against the run  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/14/2013 9:49 am : link
but not so great playing the pass.

He can come back as a bench player.
Think  
AcidTest : 11/14/2013 9:50 am : link
Tuck is part of the veteran purge in the offseason. Really think Jerry is going to clean house.

Boothe has the best chance of all the veterans to return IMO, and even that isn't that great. But he could play as a backup center in a pinch. I think his days at guard are done.
Id let him  
AnishPatel : 11/14/2013 9:51 am : link
go and bring in youth and develop guys that way. We have a lot of decisions to make on a lot of players.
No.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/14/2013 9:52 am : link
Time to make some major changes with this team.
In the end it won't be a tough decision,  
Jimmy Googs : 11/14/2013 9:55 am : link
We get into the playoffs with 8-8 record, run the table and win the Superbowl at home.

Tuck decides this is the best way to go out and retires.

End of Story
For vet min I'd love to have him back  
BillT : 11/14/2013 9:56 am : link
As much as I'm a fan I don't think he's not worth more than that.
He's a free agent after the year.  
Optimus-NY : 11/14/2013 9:59 am : link
He knows he's near the end and would like to stay here. It would be better to move on from him, and go with some youth. He's nothing more than an injury-prone faux leader who's good against the run as well as being an aging mediocre pass rusher at this point. He wouldn't be given the slack that he's given here elsewhere, hence why he'd like to stay, especially with this staff.
I'd give him a Jenkins-like deal  
GIANTSr01 : 11/14/2013 10:00 am : link
Wouldn't go much higher than that though. I'd look to have JPP start at LDE next year with more at RDE and Tuck the primary backup for both spots. I definitely think JPP's strengths play more to the LDE spot than the RDE.
time to part ways with him  
mdc1 : 11/14/2013 10:07 am : link
and move some youth into the dline.
Tuck is also tied for 10th among DE  
GIANTSr01 : 11/14/2013 10:09 am : link
in tackles for loss (TFL) with 1 more than JPP and he's 27th in QB Hits with 7.

Yes, he only has 1 sack, but he's gotten more consistent pressure than any other DL on the Giants this year.
Advanced Stats - ( New Window )
I was in the anti-Tuck camp for a while  
regulator : 11/14/2013 10:11 am : link
but his play this year is markedly improved. He has been a force in the run game (huge part of the overall resurgence of that aspect of our defense) and is generating more consistent pressure than any point in the last 3 years. He may have lost a step in that his sack numbers are not prolific, but let's not forget that his career-high is 12 sacks and he has only broken double digits three times in nine seasons.

He's a quality locker room guy, a good citizen and has become one of the 'faces' of this franchise. I don't think other teams will have any delusions about his ability to produce and want to break the bank for a 31-year-old DE with a history of injuries and only fiftysomething career sacks. Think the Giants will be able to bring him back on a cap-friendly deal.
I think he stays on a cheap 1 year deal  
jcn56 : 11/14/2013 10:15 am : link
and sees his snap count greatly reduced. He'll probably benefit from it as well, since he's constantly dinged up. Maybe fewer reps will mean healthier Tuck.
RE: Tuck is also tied for 10th among DE  
Jimmy Googs : 11/14/2013 10:17 am : link
In comment 11337079 GIANTSr01 said:
Quote:
in tackles for loss (TFL) with 1 more than JPP and he's 27th in QB Hits with 7.

Yes, he only has 1 sack, but he's gotten more consistent pressure than any other DL on the Giants this year. Advanced Stats - ( New Window )


Nice job with this info GIANTSr01. Good stuff.

BTW - Amazing QB hit numbers for Watt and Quinn...they need a drug test.
I love Tuck, and I'd like to see him re-signed.  
Klaatu : 11/14/2013 10:18 am : link
But I don't think he's a starter anymore, and I don't know if he'd be comfortable in a backup role.
Come on Tuck  
spike : 11/14/2013 10:22 am : link
on a vet minimum 1-2 year deal, then we will talk.
Hopefully  
spike : 11/14/2013 10:23 am : link
he made enough money from his Subways endorsements.

Vet Min backup DE. Let Moore win the starting DE job
I think he would be beneficial  
Simms11 : 11/14/2013 10:27 am : link
to keep around as vet leadership, but in a reduced role. Let Moore start next year and rotate Tuck in on occasion. Could actually be good for him and teh Giants. Nobody else out there would give him a contract, so why not low-ball him and retain him for solid depth.

Beason and Rolle both see what he provides to the defense. I would love to see all three come back for continuity sake, as well.
it's always hard  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/14/2013 10:27 am : link
because this is a profession that is dictated by elite performers performing at elite levels. Once former elite players lose that ability-- which can happen overnight-- be it a notch decrease in speed/strength due to age or healthy-- they become a liability to the team instead of an asset.

Tuck was as great a Giants as they come. He made big plays in the biggest moments, he said the right things, and he represented our classy franchise in a very classy manner. His teammates love him and he never once gave fans one of those moments where they had to decide between their desire to see their team win and their moral compass.

Unfortunately, though, Tuck plays one of the more important positions on the field and a position that the Giants defense relies upon to be successful.

If the Giants are going to keep a declining Tuck at such an important position, then the worst thing they could do would be to overpay him for his loyalty because you would be wasting scarce resources while also losing out the opportunity to find a dominant player at that position.
RE: I think he stays on a cheap 1 year deal  
GIANTSr01 : 11/14/2013 10:33 am : link
In comment 11337087 jcn56 said:
Quote:
and sees his snap count greatly reduced. He'll probably benefit from it as well, since he's constantly dinged up. Maybe fewer reps will mean healthier Tuck.


I'd like to see Moore's snaps increased to 50-60% of the total D snaps and Tuck's decreased to around that range to keep him healthier and productive on the snaps he plays. JPP should obviously continue to see >75% (I think he's been close to 90% a few games) and then Kiwi gets whatever is left over. Though I see them adding another DE in the 2-4 rd range (unless they have a chance at Clowney/Barr).

Contract wise, I think a Jenkins-like deal works for both the Giants and Tuck. I think it'll take at least a 2 year deal to keep him here and that type of deal won't hurt the Giants cap (like the Snee/Baas/Diehl deals have).
Case Dismissed..  
GMANinDC : 11/14/2013 10:36 am : link
...
Tough decision  
ghost718 : 11/14/2013 10:40 am : link
Guy has done a lot for the Giants,but you have to wonder how his decline in play has affected him.Is he still the same teammate? Only the Giants and those close know for sure.
When you resign guys for sentimental reasons,  
Exit 172 : 11/14/2013 10:40 am : link
your franchise heads south, competitively.

I love Tuck and I will always appreciate Tuck. But Tuck is not a part of this team's future.
Tuck is one of my favorite Giants  
gmen9892 : 11/14/2013 10:41 am : link
I would love to see the guy come back on a cheap 1-2 year deal and finish out his career here. Before the season started, I was leaning towards letting him walk, but the guy has shown a resurgence and his attitude has picked back up. Still want to see how the rest of the year plays out, but if he keeps this up, would love to have him back.
Bringing this guy back would be a huge mistake.  
Curtis in VA : 11/14/2013 10:44 am : link
He's done. I think he knows it. The Giants must know it.

Of course he's going to say he wants to come back right now, what else is he supposed to say. The worst thing he could do right now is say he wants to retire or play somewhere else and let the media create a big distraction out of it right as his team is starting to win some games.

A one-year deal makes sense with him only if they re-sign him in 2014.  
Optimus-NY : 11/14/2013 10:49 am : link
MSB contracts are there for a reason, to be used on players like Tuck. A contract like the one for Jenkins is not something the he should get IMO. At this point Tuck is a year-to-year type of player. You want to be able to cut the cord with him ASAP if his play declines again.
Personally, I would be disappointed if the Giants brought him back  
Optimus-NY : 11/14/2013 10:51 am : link
next season. Time to move on from some of these older players, and to being in some more youth like Moore at the DE position as well as elsewhere on the roster.
With JPP and Moore on the roster and Kiwi on the books  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 11/14/2013 10:53 am : link
I don't see them making a strong push to sign him
7 hits on the QB through 9 weeks is awful.  
Curtis in VA : 11/14/2013 11:00 am : link
Not sacks...just hits.
I hope he comes back...  
Jan in DC : 11/14/2013 11:17 am : link
he's easy to root for. Has been a great Giant through the years and he's a good leader. He's not as productive as he has been, but you can see the effort is still there.
I want him back but I need to see a lot more production...  
MikeN in Ottawa : 11/14/2013 11:19 am : link
once you hit 30 there are injuries. He has already had a bunch and while his play this year is better...we need results...week in and week out.

If he comes back, it has to be at a reasonable price. Probably an incentive laden contract.
RE: 7 hits on the QB through 9 weeks is awful.  
Jimmy Googs : 11/14/2013 11:21 am : link
In comment 11337207 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
Not sacks...just hits.


I agree Curtis. Those QB hit numbers look strange in that table. Almost as if the only ones that are getting any credit are Watts and Quinn, and everybody else is in quicksand.
RE: 7 hits on the QB through 9 weeks is awful.  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/14/2013 11:27 am : link
In comment 11337207 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
Not sacks...just hits.


You've been all over this thread with the same thought. Tuck plays LDE in a 4-3, where stopping the run is the priority, and he's been solid all year. Strahan's greatness is that he could do both from the position. Teams have had more success running at JPP all year, and definitely Kiwanuka, than Tuck.

On a cheap deal, you definitely bring him back as a bridge to moving JPP over to strong side (where he's unproven) and as a mentor to Moore on how to handle himself.
Tuck stays  
WideRight : 11/14/2013 12:06 pm : link
All you critics can go...
God forgive us critics that are debating tuck's value  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/14/2013 12:18 pm : link
when he has 5.5 sacks in his last 24 games.
I don't really think Tuck is the kind of guy I want mentoring  
Curtis in VA : 11/14/2013 12:28 pm : link
guys I look to as the future of my team. He's a nice guy and all but for the past few seasons his attitude has been questionable. And he's said himself on multiple occasions that he's taken things for granted.

He's not like Antrel Rolle who is always ultra competitive and intense. Thats a mentor...if such a thing is even necessary.

You can't just bring back star players and ask them to sit on the bench. If he comes back, he's going to want to start here or somewhere else or retire. There's a lot of pride that goes into it and, not all but most, aren't willing to swallow it just to stick around another year or so. And that's a fine decision.

I get that Tuck is well liked and he's had his share of moments with this team but its important to know when to move on and I think that time is after this season with him. We need more youth. This team is sorely lacking the fire and hunger that comes with young hungry players looking for their first championship.



I think Tuck has been  
BayRidgeBlue : 11/14/2013 12:30 pm : link
playing pretty well for us this year. No, he hasn't put up big stats but his play has been well above average for the position and he has done a good job containing some athletic QB's and applying pressure.

As with anything else, it comes down to money...my guess is that he'd be willing to stay provided that we give him a fair deal (which won't be much) and he can go out as a Giant - a Giant who put together two huge performances in our two most recent Super Bowls.
He's got to go  
I wanna be Torbor, sucka : 11/14/2013 12:31 pm : link
I love Tuck and what he's done for the Giants, but its time for the team to make a change. A lot of our 2 SB winning players will go. Snee, Tuck, Kiwi, probably Webster. Its time for the Giants to make a shift.
Well, since we are talking about DE's.....  
Doomster : 11/14/2013 1:18 pm : link
Who says JPP and Moore are locks for starters next year?

A whole lot of assuming going on around here......

First, let's see what Tuck actually does in the next 7 games, and then we'll go from there...
Love JT  
old man : 11/14/2013 1:23 pm : link
but his one strength, his quickness off the line, has been slowed by age and injury, and OLs can match/beat what he has left, as a starter.
Maybe some team with a better pass rush could use what he brings more often than the '14 Giants look like they could, at contract time, and he goes.
But for here, it's a vet min. + a 'thank you' bonus in his salary, and the bench. Too bad too, but it's NFL lifespan reality.
the future is in youth  
mdc1 : 11/14/2013 1:26 pm : link
something that should be crystal clear after the last 2 seasons of play
Sounds like  
JoeMoney19 : 11/14/2013 1:36 pm : link
he's mentally embracing the twilight of his career. Hopefully he does so financially as well in the offseason and we can keep him around.
Remember all the Osi crap?  
WideRight : 11/14/2013 2:22 pm : link
Tuck was the consumate teammate when he had every chance to upstage Osi. But he put team first and repeatedly said starting does't matter. In an ego driven NFL, humble motivated performers have incredible teambuilding value.

He would be great in rotation.
RE: I don't really think Tuck is the kind of guy I want mentoring  
Optimus-NY : 11/14/2013 2:33 pm : link
In comment 11337396 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
guys I look to as the future of my team. He's a nice guy and all but for the past few seasons his attitude has been questionable. And he's said himself on multiple occasions that he's taken things for granted.

He's not like Antrel Rolle who is always ultra competitive and intense. Thats a mentor...if such a thing is even necessary.

You can't just bring back star players and ask them to sit on the bench. If he comes back, he's going to want to start here or somewhere else or retire. There's a lot of pride that goes into it and, not all but most, aren't willing to swallow it just to stick around another year or so. And that's a fine decision.

I get that Tuck is well liked and he's had his share of moments with this team but its important to know when to move on and I think that time is after this season with him. We need more youth. This team is sorely lacking the fire and hunger that comes with young hungry players looking for their first championship.





I agree w/you Curtis.
Tuck has been solid against the run  
Geeman : 11/14/2013 2:38 pm : link
so as long as he came back on a CAP friendly deal and helps transition Moore as the new starting DE I'd have no problem with that. He's not the pass rusher he once was, but as run stopping DE he still has value.
Tuck will get a contract similar to cullen Jenkins  
mofti : 11/14/2013 3:10 pm : link
around 2-3 mill per year. His play against the run has been great thus far.... You just can't ignore that stat.
He's looking  
area junc : 11/14/2013 9:19 pm : link
For a 5 year deal
You need a lot of DEs guys  
jcn56 : 11/14/2013 9:32 pm : link
It's not as if we're good if we have JPP, Moore and Kiwi. We won a SB with Dave Tollefson out there.

Tuck definitely has a place if he's inexpensive. If he's looking for 3-4m a year, then he needs to go, contributions to the team be damned. If he's willing to accept a reserve role and pay, then he's about as good a reserve as you're going to find anywhere, and as cheap to boot. And, if we limit the number of snaps he's out there, who knows what other benefit we might get from keeping him.
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