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Starting Robinson and Pascoe at TE

gmen9892 : 11/15/2013 2:58 pm
Can we just call the Myers signing a bust already and start Robinson and Pascoe at TE. Reese took a chance on Myers and whiffed, and in all probability hes not going to be back here next year.

Why do we keep trotting him out there if he cant block and were not throwing passes his way. Might as well see what we have in Robinson if were gonna strictly keep him in there to block. They guy isnt a rookie anymore, so he should arguably know the system just as good as Myers if not better.
The coaches see what they have in Robinson and Donnell every day  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/15/2013 3:00 pm : link
maybe they don't like it.
God that TE corps  
AnishPatel : 11/15/2013 3:02 pm : link
is awful. Maybe for once, this off season, we can stabilize that position once and for all and end the musical TEs.
I first read this as the coaches announced  
Tuckrule : 11/15/2013 3:02 pm : link
then realized its your opinion. Pascoe plays a tremendous amount. He lines up at TE and spells conner as the fullback on certain packages. Myers has been OK. He has not been as bad as some people make him out to be.
replace a bust with a bust?  
SHO'NUFF : 11/15/2013 3:03 pm : link
good strategy.
RE: replace a bust with a bust?  
gmen9892 : 11/15/2013 3:05 pm : link
In comment 11339468 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
good strategy.


You already came to the conclusion that Robinson is a bust based off of what?
Robinson looked pretty awful in preseason.  
Curtis in VA : 11/15/2013 3:06 pm : link
Worse than Myers.

Maybe he hasn't gotten any better.
last week  
Houston : 11/15/2013 3:19 pm : link
Last week i thought Meyers played a good game --- maybe because it was his ex-team .. but he did look better
RE: Robinson looked pretty awful in preseason.  
gmen9892 : 11/15/2013 3:20 pm : link
In comment 11339482 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
Worse than Myers.

Maybe he hasn't gotten any better.


Based on all the PFF Ratings (not sure how much anyone takes that into account) Myers has consistently been our worst rated offensive player in almost every game. I cant seen throwing Robinson out there being a whole lot worse.
How can anyone declare Robinson a bust already?  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2013 3:40 pm : link
I am as frustrated as most here but we knew he was extremely raw last year and that he would be redshirted last season. This year I was hoping he would progress but that hasn't happened because he has had a nagging injury all year. Let's wait until the end of next season before judging whether or not Robinson was a wasted pick. Dallas fans, and some Giants fans, were calling Martellus Bennett a bust last year when the Giants signed him.
What exactly did Meyers did wrong last week?  
Geeman : 11/15/2013 3:43 pm : link
Lots of people here once they seem to formulate and opinion this mob mentality forms, which is pretty sad.
So let me hear exactly what it is Meyers did wrong last game?
He stepped  
SHO'NUFF : 11/15/2013 3:47 pm : link
onto the field.
I don't remember a pass going his way  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/15/2013 3:50 pm : link
but he wasn't a good blocker in run support, again.
Geeman  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2013 3:51 pm : link
He didn't have a single catch last week.
There was a quote on this board from a coach  
ABalls : 11/15/2013 3:51 pm : link
saying that the issue with Robinson is that he hasn't developed quickly enough because they haven't gotten the chance to get him on the field enough...

Gee whiz...what a cyclical problem.

I doubt he can be much worse than Meyers though, who is average at absolute best. Give 'em a shot!
Robinson has been injured all year  
Rob_MTL : 11/15/2013 3:58 pm : link
Relax
?  
nfjints : 11/15/2013 4:02 pm : link
I read somewhere Kdrive praised Myers for Holding is blocks on the backside on running plays which allowed Brown to run further into the gap and and make a cut. I can't trust Robinson this guy can't stay healthy or hasn't played in 2 years he needs to go..
RE: Robinson has been injured all year  
gmen9892 : 11/15/2013 4:04 pm : link
In comment 11339690 Rob_MTL said:
Quote:
Relax


I understand that delayed him being played, but he has now been practicing for 2 weeks straight with no issues. Guy has been on the team now for 2 years, so its not like he needs to get acclimated with the system. If hes healthy now, I see no huge downside.

Myers at BEST has been a slightly below-average blocker and has been nearly invisible pass catcher up until this point. What is there really to lose?
RE: RE: Robinson looked pretty awful in preseason.  
Curtis in VA : 11/15/2013 4:05 pm : link
In comment 11339546 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 11339482 Curtis in VA said:


Quote:


Worse than Myers.

Maybe he hasn't gotten any better.



Based on all the PFF Ratings (not sure how much anyone takes that into account) Myers has consistently been our worst rated offensive player in almost every game. I cant seen throwing Robinson out there being a whole lot worse.


It can always be worse. Its just one of those things you can't always see until it happens.
Myers  
stretch234 : 11/15/2013 4:30 pm : link
He is a bust in terms of what.

Here are the catches for the TE of the Giants since 2008

08 - 33 Kevin Boss
09 - 42 Kevin Boss
10 - 35 Kevin Boss
11 - 38 Jake Ballard
12 - 55 Martellus Bennett
13 - 23 Brandon Myers - through 9 games

The TE is not a focul point of this passing offense. It is clearly not Myers fault that the OL has been so bad he is blocking from the backfield.

He, like all the TE are open in the pattern

Bennett was the best TE, but not for 20M

Maybe next year they make a play for Pita or Dickson, whichever the Ravens don't sign
Can  
AcidTest : 11/15/2013 4:37 pm : link
we just say the whole position sucks? Seriously, it's worse than the OL. Can't catch, and can't block, the latter of which is really infuriating considering that it really doesn't require an in depth understanding of the offense, and also because our OL is so bad.

Myers is like Wilson. Nobody takes his blocking seriously. Decent receiver, but he won't be back unless maybe he takes a massive pay cut.

Robinson can't get on the field, and is so far behind it's a given that we won't get anything from him this year. And he really hasn't played that much. He came to football late IIRC, and Cincinnati didn't even use the TE much because they played five WRs.

Donnell was a UDFA. Tough guy, but hasn't done anything.

Pascoe. Try hard guy. Jack of all trades, master of none, he does contribute, but his ceiling is low.
RE: RE: RE: Robinson looked pretty awful in preseason.  
Jimmy Googs : 11/15/2013 4:43 pm : link
In comment 11339709 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:


It can always be worse. Its just one of those things you can't always see until it happens.



Very true, but that was a funny line.
Pita's  
DG_89 : 11/15/2013 4:43 pm : link
coming off an injury. No thanks. No damaged goods. Sign a vet that can block and continue developing Robinson and Donnel
I hate to use this comparison  
Randy in CT : 11/15/2013 4:46 pm : link
but SO FAR, Robinson reminds me of Barden. Looks great in practice/camp and then doesn't make a splash on the field. Still early for AR so here's hoping.
Luckily  
DG_89 : 11/15/2013 4:57 pm : link
we run a WR oriented passing attack so not having a receiving TE isn't that big of a deal
How can you make a splash  
Headhunter : 11/15/2013 4:59 pm : link
when you are never in a game?
So Myers  
PaulN : 11/15/2013 5:02 pm : link
Is going to be this season's moron scapegoat. Not to say that out of 22 starters alone, 1 person means very little, but this entire thing crap season has got to have a scapegoat, every year its needed, we get one, one what fucking planet id Pascoe even remotely adequate, and Robinson has been so good so far, how can you not play him. Great thread.
stretch  
Toth029 : 11/15/2013 5:15 pm : link
The catches by Boss, Ballard, and Bennett were pretty big throughout the year. Especially Ballard's.

Has there been a catch all season that made you think "Wow!" for Myers?
RE: Luckily  
Jimmy Googs : 11/15/2013 5:17 pm : link
In comment 11339805 DG_89 said:
Quote:
we run a WR oriented passing attack so not having a receiving TE isn't that big of a deal



Stop. It is a big deal. We need some type of receiving threat out of the TE position otherwise it limits the offense.

We haven't exactly been playing teams with great pass defenses and our passing game hasn't done well at all. The more options the better.

Eli and Myers need to work on their issues and targets to the TE position need to increase.
Although I am an absolutely huge believer in 'the coaches know  
Marty in Albany : 11/15/2013 5:28 pm : link
who their best players are' it is disturbingly clear that if Boss did not get hurt, Ballard would not have gotten on the field.
The only catch anyone has made that made me say "wow"  
Bill in UT : 11/15/2013 5:31 pm : link
was the one Donnell caught behind the end zone.

Here's the article on Myers blocking that Eric posted today. If a guy can catch 79 balls for anyone, he's someone who can get open and catch the football. I'm not convinced yet that Meyers is gone. We just need to use him better, perhaps.

"Giants tight end Brandon Myers didn’t catch a pass against the Raiders – his former team – last week, but he may have had his best game of the season.

Myers, who has built has career as a pass catcher, was a key factor as a blocker in having pave the way for running back Andre Brown, who rushed for 115 yards and a touchdown on 30 carries in the Giants’ 24-20 victory.

“He (Myers) was outstanding, especially on plays away (from him), which was tough because a guy was on his inside eye and, of course, all the action was running away,” offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride said. “It was very difficult to cut off (your man).

“I told him I thought that was about as good a job as I’ve seen with the backside. Andre, particularly, is a guy that likes to wind it back and he was a significant part of the success and a reason that (Brown) was able to do that effectively.”

It’s been a tough transition for Myers, who caught 79 passes for 806 yards and four touchdowns in Oakland last season and wasn’t asked to block much.

“I’m just getting comfortable with (tight ends) coach (Michael) Pope and the way they want it,” said Myers, who has 23 catches for 265 yards and a touchdown. “It’s obviously technique and wanting to do it. But just because you want to do it doesn’t mean you’re always going to be able to do it. It is part of my game I’ve always had to keep working on.”

With the Giants looking to establish the run now that Brown is healthy, Myers will likely be heavily involved in the blocking schemes this week as well."

Dave Hutchinson/ Star Ledger
I am not a big Stat watcher ..  
BBurns : 11/15/2013 5:48 pm : link
But when was the last time a Giants Football Team
did not even attempt a throw to the TE ..???
And you want to START Robinson . I don't have anything
against the Guy but I am TIRED of PROJECTS...!!!
With that said I just have never seen anything out of Robinson that resembled a football play in two years .
I would be very surprised and happy when he actually hits
the field and contributes .
0 catches...meh  
SHO'NUFF : 11/15/2013 6:20 pm : link
0 TARGETS...WTF?
I've never been to camp, Albany or here  
3putt : 11/15/2013 6:22 pm : link
but I watch every play, every game. I can't remember Robinson making one play. Not a block, not a catch. I'm not saying he hasn't. Just haven't seen it.

I've heard Reese talk about him, I've seen people write about, but I haven't seen anything, and I'm guessing that if he's not playing then the coaches haven't seen anything in practice.
What have we learned?  
jbeintherockies : 11/15/2013 6:50 pm : link
When the coaching staff doesn't start someone, it is for a reason. We didn't see Brewer play at right tackle after injuries at the RT position. Everyone wondered why. Then we saw him at left-guard. Nothing too spectacular there. Now we don't see him at all. I think there is a reason.

Same scenario with TE. Pope might be the best TE coach in the NFL. If he doesn't think Robinson is ready, I'm not going to argue with him.
it doesnt help when gilbride praises meyers blocking  
mattlawson : 11/15/2013 7:33 pm : link
unreal
Breakout game for Myers  
CT Charlie : 11/15/2013 8:26 pm : link
vs. the Pack.
Isn't the lack of the tight end involvement  
gmen1234 : 11/15/2013 8:39 pm : link
most likely because he has to stay on the line and help block?
Seriously,  
Doomster : 11/15/2013 9:08 pm : link
Luckily
DG_89 : 4:57 pm : link : reply
we run a WR oriented passing attack so not having a receiving TE isn't that big of a deal


And how is that WR trio working out? If you can't see how a TE is important to this offense, than you just don't get it....

Myers caught 13 passes in the first two games, mostly garbage time.....that means just 10 in the last 7 games....caught 70 for Oakland? Probably in garbage time because they played from behind all the time....

This guy doesn't block at all, he whiffs on blocks....what did you expect Gilbride to say? He sucks? I'm sure Reese would have loved that...
Myers at least can play NFL football...  
Rsspro : 11/16/2013 2:01 am : link
the guy is not an elite TE.. but he is a serviceable TE.. it's not like we spent a lot of money on this guy.. and I think he still will make more contributions down the stretch.. the biggest difference I see between him and Bennett.. besides size.. is that Bennett was a great blocker.. and Myers struggles as a blocker.. but he is a good pass catcher.. even if he's struggled at times with out offense..

the problem is we don't have one TE who can do it all right now.. which is why we have 4 TEs on the roster.. I think the hope is that at some point Donnell or Robinson can be NFL caliber two way TEs.. time will tell..
Gilbride  
bc4life : 11/16/2013 9:15 am : link
says Myers' blocking is getting better
On what scale?  
Doomster : 11/16/2013 9:25 am : link
From absolutely gawd awful to mediocre?
RE: Gilbride  
Jimmy Googs : 11/16/2013 10:04 am : link
In comment 11340180 bc4life said:
Quote:
says Myers' blocking is getting better


The backside was available for Brown on many of his runs so someone was doing a pretty good job blocking. I don't know for sure it was Myers, but no reason to doubt Gilbride.

Unless Gilbride is just trying to "coach-up" Myers which I am fine with as well.

Fans should all be happy to see Robinson get snaps to see exactly what we have here already. But Myers is the starter and he needs to get open and Eli needs to find him. Looking for Cruz all the time will never get us to the promised land.
On one play  
Jay on the Island : 11/16/2013 10:44 am : link
I was watching Myers try to block a blitzing linebacker and his attempt was embarrassing. It was like he was giving the linebacker a celebratory ass slap like it baseball as the linebacker just ran by him.
I  
CapeGman : 11/16/2013 11:16 am : link
agree. If Robinson is healthy get him in there. Myers looks more like a FB playing TE to me. His ceiling seems really low to me. I think we've seen what he offers and it's not much.

I want to see the JPP of TE's unleashed.
We could put Ozzie Newsome  
PeterS : 11/16/2013 11:30 am : link
(in his prime) at TE and nothing would change. This offense does not feature the TE in it's passing attack.
Pope  
Spock : 11/16/2013 11:34 am : link
I guess he's not as great as we thought.
Just maybe Myers is just not a tight end at all ....  
Manny in CA : 11/16/2013 9:58 pm : link
Maybe he's more of a Gronkowski type - a guy that can be split out and hard to handle because he's bigger than any of the DBs, and just fast enough (and shifty) to get open
isn't he the same build as Beckum?  
SHO'NUFF : 11/16/2013 11:48 pm : link
and they couldn't do shit with Beckum. they promised to use Beckum in some kind of prototypical role when we drafted him, then inexplicably tried to turn him into a traditional tight end.
Beckum was  
Bill in UT : 11/17/2013 1:21 am : link
235 pounds, real small for a TE
Gronk can actually block competently/consistently.  
Riggies : 11/17/2013 2:31 am : link
(Or at least he used to be able to before the injuries. I haven't paid enough attention lately to say with absolute certainly about now.)

You might mean more Graham, who's only a TE by positional name... but it's got to be some sort of football sin to merely mention him in the same breath as the master of the garbage time checkdown short of the sticks.
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