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Adrien Robinson

Essex : 11/18/2013 8:56 am
I do not want to make this a whole indictment of Reese's philosophy. But, it angers me that he cannot get on the field, especially given our poor play from the TE position (although Meyers might have had his most impactful game yesterday with some really timely catches). When you draft a tight end in the fourth round, project or not, injuries or not, he needs to get on the field by the middle of November in his second season. What has he dressed, two games in his career? I really am doubting whether he will every play for us and whether this was just a stupid pick on a project at way too high a place in the draft.
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But  
AcidTest : 11/18/2013 9:35 am : link
it isn't just Robinson. Robinson is one example of Reese and Ross drafting players based more on workout numbers than actual success on a football field. And it's also where Robinson and guys like Austin, Barden, Brewer, Petrus, etc. were drafted. These are high, or at least mid round picks.

Jerry said Brewer had "left tackle feet," and now he can't even beat out Diehl at guard. He also missed a ton of time at Indiana because of foot and ankle injuries. Petrus was a converted TE with limited experience at guard, but broke the combine record for bench presses. Austin had great workouts that were supposed to offset his not having played for more than a year when he was drafted. Barden was a super tall guy whose height was supposed to allow him to dominate smaller WRs in the NFL. Similar to Burress. Cooper Taylor might fit into this category as well. And so on.

Kuhn is a guy who was drafted largely based on his measureables. He had little football experience. The same for Cox. But they were seventh round picks.

Few people would be criticizing Reese for taking Robinson if he had done so in the sixth or seventh, and not the fourth round, and if he didn't have a bad track record of wrongly emphasizing measureables over football success.
nomad  
JonC : 11/18/2013 9:41 am : link
Apples and oranges, Stokley was signed to light a fire under Cruz and it worked. Cruz stepped up rendering Stokley a non-entity.

Has AR stepped up similarly? No. Injuries certainly have been a part of this equation, but coaches see these men every day in meetings, chalk talk, the practice field, the weight room, etc.

In other words, they know what the player is made of until the player proves he's made of more.

Are coaches 100% infallible? No, but it's silly to assume they're wrong more often than not.
lulz, TMS  
Giantology : 11/18/2013 9:46 am : link
Quote:
Robinson is
TMS : 9:12 am : link : reply
was another reach by Reese and Ross based on athletic ability not demonstrated ability to play football. Those two are always trying to land the next STEAL for thier ego's.


Yeah, that has to be it. Always trying to land that next steal for their ego. You really think that's what they are doing?
old timer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2013 9:49 am : link
Robinson had something like 8 career catches at Cincinnati because of the nature of their offense.

All of the coaches have said the same thing...he's got a ton of talent, but he needs work. And they have all said that the missed time this year has really set him back.

It's not more complicated than that.
One  
AcidTest : 11/18/2013 9:52 am : link
of these "measurables" guys is going to work out, and turn into a really good football player. But a success rate of 1/6 or 1/7 doesn't seem to justify the strategy, especially when most are taken with second through fifth round picks.
Reese was going for the cover of Pro Football Weekly with this pick  
ghost718 : 11/18/2013 9:59 am : link
Could have had Fleener or Dwayne Allen,but he wanted to go for it all.


The Gambler
"it angers me that he cannot get on the field"  
Gman11 : 11/18/2013 10:03 am : link
Serenity Now! Serenity Now!
his film is damn impressive  
mattlawson : 11/18/2013 10:05 am : link
let's see what he can do -- yes it sucks he hasn't gotten on the field
Yeah because Fleener  
Jay on the Island : 11/18/2013 10:05 am : link
is totally dominating right now.
He reminds me of  
spike : 11/18/2013 10:07 am : link
Frank Francisco of the Mets.. just milking his injuries to collect a paycheck.
I don't disagree that their drafting philosophy isn't producing  
JonC : 11/18/2013 10:09 am : link
as it needs to in rounds 2-4, however, or that the OL/TE positions need to be addressed.
Eric doesn't just say it.  
Exit 172 : 11/18/2013 10:12 am : link
He sas it.
Guy gets hurt quite a bit for  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/18/2013 10:15 am : link
someone who doesn't play much.
When will some of you learn to be patient?  
Jay on the Island : 11/18/2013 10:24 am : link
I bet the same people calling Robinson a bust were also calling Eli, Manningham, Amukamara, Toomer, Tiki, Tuck, Umenyiora, Joseph, Beatty, Webster, and Derrick Ward busts at this stage in their careers.
I'm with Jay.  
CT Charlie : 11/18/2013 10:43 am : link
The draft is still a crapshoot, and injuries complicate everything. If injuries to guys like Prince and Robinson and Wilson frustrate fans, imagine how coaches feel.
..  
Named Later : 11/18/2013 10:48 am : link
This whole topic of mid-round reaches was thoroughly discussed Sunday morning in spike's thread.....you could, as they say, look it up.

There's some gaping holes in the last several draft classes where measurables pushed a kid into a higher round than he probably should have been. You can have one maybe two flyers on the last day of the Draft.....but when you come out of the "Player Selection Meeting" with Sintim, Barden, Beckum and Bomar......you're depth is going to take a hit.

The Number of Players still on NFL Rosters is a bad Metric. Barden has been on a Roster for 4 years and only has like 30 catches to show for it (most of them came in the Carolina game). His pension is going to be over $400K per year.
RE: I sa  
NJGiantFan84 : 11/18/2013 10:54 am : link
In comment 11343851 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the same thing each year. This isn't a video game. It's real and there is a learning curve.



Thank you. Things happen that cause players to miss time and when a player was drafted based on measureables only, it takes even more time for him to recover.

The coaches know what he has right nowand he's not ready yet, but that doesn't mean he won't ever be a contributor.

Some players take a lot of time to develop.

If you can't get on the field, you're of no use  
Optimus-NY : 11/18/2013 10:57 am : link
.
Yeah - drafting a raw TE with minimal college production is stupid.  
Big Blue Blogger : 11/18/2013 10:57 am : link
What ever happened to that Jimmy Graham guy, anyway? Did he ever make it onto the field for the Saints?
If this guy was not showing anything or worth it  
geemanfan : 11/18/2013 11:03 am : link
Don't you think he would have been on the IR already?
missed last week's thread,  
aquidneck : 11/18/2013 11:03 am : link
but just for yuks looked up 2010 NFL draft. About half the guys out of the league, something short of a quarter are starers.

Some of the expectations around here are totally unreasonable. Our odds for success with Robinson were never more than 25%.

btw, the guy who wrote the article doesn't seem to have been much of a judge of talent. Many of the guys he loves are out of the league, the few standouts today are guys he shits on.


2010 4th Round - ( New Window )
Kg  
SBlue46 : 11/18/2013 11:04 am : link
has 2-3 plays to a TE..per game..
3 TE's are ahead of Robinson on Depth
chart..dont expect Rob unless one gets hurt..
Moore is hardly playing
RE: Yeah - drafting a raw TE with minimal college production is stupid.  
BigBlueBull : 11/18/2013 11:04 am : link
In comment 11344086 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
What ever happened to that Jimmy Graham guy, anyway? Did he ever make it onto the field for the Saints?


Haven't heard of him. Some guys named Julius Thomas and Jordan Cameron play in the NFL too
LOL  
spike : 11/18/2013 11:05 am : link
"NO. 120: BENGALS SELECT: GENO ATKINS, DT, GEORGIA GRADE
Analysis: Geno Atkins had a good Senior Bowl but he is undersized and will get pushed around. He will work hard but is mainly a rotation guy.
C+"
BBI would have cut Julius Thomas after his second year  
Andy in Halifax : 11/18/2013 11:06 am : link
when he had produced as much as Robinson has to date.
Well, since Jimmy Graham did it,  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/18/2013 11:06 am : link
I'm sure that means Adrien Robinson can.
Yeah  
Jay on the Island : 11/18/2013 11:07 am : link
That Antonio Gates guy had a great college career... as basketball player.
The new blueprint for drating TE's has been found!  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/18/2013 11:10 am : link
.
What about Visanthe Shiancoe?  
Jay on the Island : 11/18/2013 11:10 am : link
He did nothing here and went on to have a very good career with the Vikings.
there  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2013 11:14 am : link
are lots of draft picks to get upset over (Austin, Barden, Moss, Sintim, Jerngian), but I just don't put Robinson in that category yet. He was raw coming out and had this year sabotaged.

Now, if he doesn't play next year...
also  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2013 11:16 am : link
keep in mind that colleges simply are not producing two-way tight ends anymore. College offenses either have H-Back types or don't use them.

So guys like Pope are sent out to look for projects who have the tools to become good two-way guys.
Why not get upset about Robinson  
pjcas18 : 11/18/2013 11:20 am : link
this seems like a 2nd consecutive nothing year.

So now NFL teams draft players for 2 years of production IF you assume somehow Robinson stays healthy, practices, and produces at a high-level?

then of course he'll need a big contract and the Giants won't be able to afford him.

I get that rookie draft picks aren't expected to contribute day 1, particularly 4th round picks, but yeah, I think they should add something in the first two years.

Hosley and Austin were worse, but nothing good yet about this Robinson pick.
Reese has an arrangement with the Feds  
Bill in UT : 11/18/2013 11:21 am : link
Instead of putting certain college football players into the Witness Protection Program, they have Reese draft them as projects and they're never seen again.
Classic bust  
jeff57 : 11/18/2013 11:23 am : link
.
RE: Should compare Robinson's stats  
PeterS : 11/18/2013 11:28 am : link
In comment 11343868 Chaka said:
Quote:
to Julian Thomas and Jordan Cameron their first 2 years

They basically did nothing also. Not saying that is what he will become, but this sometimes happens when you take these raw athletes and make them TE's.
Excellent point. The thing is, the tight ends must be more involved in the passing game first.
Eric is making valid and solid points  
nyynyg : 11/18/2013 11:30 am : link
.
Eric points are intelligent and well thought out  
Blue Blood : 11/18/2013 11:43 am : link
not just reactionary. I think Reese created this issue with the fan base with the "JPP" comment.

What fans heard was.. we just drafted another guy who is a star who will come in and dominate and set the world on fire..

What Reese meant was.. we have another college project who has a rare athletic ability and size speed ratio for his position who is RAW but shows signs of the ability to be dominant if we can develop him..

JPP developed very quickly.. and still has growing to do.. Robinson has been hampered by an injury this year which of course has slowed his development.. and now while trying to climb back to .500.. isnt the time to experiment.

You have a guy who is 6'4-6'5 260ish that runs under 4.6 in the 40.. thats a mismatch for most LB's and too big for most safeties and CB's.. so he has physical tools..

The question is can he get there mentally and then can the mental process translate into playing on the field.. because of injury that process has slowed..

Fans are far too impatient now with draft picks. Partially because the Giants have had so many mid round blunders.. it creates this issue.
Here's what's common:  
81_Great_Dane : 11/18/2013 11:46 am : link
1) Giants draft chronologically young, athletically gifted player with high-upside who is not ready to play in the NFL, with the understanding he will require a year or two of coaching.

2) Said young, raw player does not contribute much in his first year or two, as the team expected.

3) BBI declares said player a bust and point to someone taken later who is contributing more on his team as proof that the Giants scouts and GM should be fired.

The problem is, there haven't been enough examples of #4:

4) Said player develops, becomes a solid contributor and shuts everyone up.
Graham and Gates  
ghost718 : 11/18/2013 11:55 am : link
Graham played 1 season of college football and Gates played none.

This guy Robinson played 4 years and never did much of anything.Supposedly the Cincinnati coaches didn't realize what they had.
..  
Named Later : 11/18/2013 12:00 pm : link
You want a TE in the 3rd-4th round ?? Pick that guy Reed that the Redskins took. He's already contributing.

Reed IS they're offense  
mattlawson : 11/18/2013 12:08 pm : link
When he went out, everything collapsed
There is no such thing as a 4th round bust...  
Milton : 11/18/2013 12:18 pm : link
...Unless the guy doesn't even make the 53 man roster as a rookie.

Reese is a "disciple" of both George Young (emphasis on production) and Ernie Accorsi (emphasis on potential). Adrien Robinson was an Accorsi-style pick.
Julius  
pjcas18 : 11/18/2013 12:40 pm : link
Thomas and Jordan Cameron are not great comparisons.

The Broncos got 100 catches out of the TE spot last year between Dreesen and Tamme, plus Thomas was injured. This year both Dreesen and Tamme started off injured.

Cameron played year 2 (14 games and 6 starts), and they had a couple decent tight ends.

Robinson has almost literally no one to beat out. He's not stuck behind Mark Bavaro or Jeremy Shockey here.

I don't think it's wrong to be disappointed.
Do the Giants even utilize the tight end enough  
RB^2 : 11/18/2013 12:40 pm : link
to justify the resources being devoted to this whole "project"?
Spike  
Rob_MTL : 11/18/2013 12:59 pm : link
Quote:
He reminds me of
spike : 10:07 am : link : reply
Frank Francisco of the Mets.. just milking his injuries to collect a paycheck.


So you think hes faking it?
RE: Do the Giants even utilize the tight end enough  
Klaatu : 11/18/2013 1:03 pm : link
In comment 11344394 RB^2 said:
Quote:
to justify the resources being devoted to this whole "project"?


What resources? A 4th-round pick?

If he stays healthy and learns which guy he's supposed to block, he'll be well worth the investment.
The thing that bothers me the most about him is that the Giants kept  
Blue21 : 11/18/2013 7:01 pm : link
him on the roster when the needed help in other areas.
during the Broncos-Chiefs game,  
SHO'NUFF : 11/18/2013 7:08 pm : link
they said Thomas still makes a ton of mistakes, but is too valuable to keep off the field....this is something we obviously do with Randle...why not do it with Robinson?
Here are the 4th/5th round picks, following the Robinson pick  
You'reMyBoyBlue!! : 11/18/2013 7:21 pm : link
Not a lot of standout names because it's the MIDDLE OF THEIR 2ND SEASON

4 127 New York Giants Adrien Robinson TE Cincinnati Big East
4* 128 Minnesota Vikings Rhett Ellison FB USC Pac-12
4* 129 Oakland Raiders Miles Burris LB San Diego State MWC
4* 130 Baltimore Ravens Christian Thompson S South Carolina State MEAC
4* 131 New York Giants Brandon Mosley OT Auburn SEC
4* 132 Green Bay Packers Mike Daniels DT Iowa Big Ten
4* 133 Green Bay Packers Jerron McMillian S Maine CAA
4* 134 Minnesota Vikings Greg Childs WR Arkansas SEC
4* 135 Dallas Cowboys Matt Johnson S Eastern Washington Big Sky
5 136 Indianapolis Colts Josh Chapman DT Alabama SEC
5 137 Denver Broncos Malik Jackson DE Tennessee SEC from St. Louis[R5 - 1]
5 138 Detroit Lions Tahir Whitehead LB Temple MAC from Minnesota [R5 - 2]
5 139 Minnesota Vikings Robert Blanton S Notre Dame Ind. from Cleveland [R5 - 3]
5 140 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Najee Goode LB West Virginia Big East
5 141 Washington Redskins Adam Gettis G Iowa Big Ten
5 142 Jacksonville Jaguars Brandon Marshall LB Nevada WAC
5 143 Carolina Panthers Josh Norman CB Coastal Carolina Big South
5 144 Buffalo Bills Zebrie Sanders OT Florida State ACC
5 145 Tennessee Titans Taylor Thompson DE SMU C-USA from Miami [R5 - 4]
5 146 Kansas City Chiefs DeQuan Menzie CB Alabama SEC
5 147 Buffalo Bills Tank Carder LB TCU MWC from Seattle[R5 - 5]
5 148 Detroit Lions Chris Greenwood CB Albion MIAA from Oakland[R5 - 6]
5 149 San Diego Chargers Johnnie Troutman G Penn State Big Ten
5 150 St. Louis Rams Rokevious Watkins G South Carolina SEC from Chicago [R5 - 7]
5 151 Arizona Cardinals Senio Kelemete G Washington Pac-12
5 152 Dallas Cowboys Danny Coale WR Virginia Tech ACC
5 153 Philadelphia Eagles Dennis Kelly OT Purdue Big Ten
5 154 Seattle Seahawks Korey Toomer LB Idaho WAC from New York Jets[R5 - 8]
5 155 Miami Dolphins Josh Kaddu LB Oregon Pac-12 from Tennessee [R5 - 9]
5 156 Cincinnati Bengals Shaun Prater CB Iowa Big Ten
5 157 Atlanta Falcons Bradie Ewing FB Wisconsin Big Ten
5 158 Oakland Raiders Jack Crawford DE Penn State Big Ten from Detroit[R5 - 10]
5 159 Pittsburgh Steelers Chris Rainey RB Florida SEC
5 160 Cleveland Browns Ryan Miller G Colorado Pac-12 from Denver[R5 - 11]
5 161 Houston Texans Randy Bullock K Texas A&M Big 12
5 162 New Orleans Saints Corey White S Samford SoCon
5 163 Green Bay Packers Terrell Manning LB NC State ACC from Green Bay via New England [R5 - 12]
5 164 Atlanta Falcons Jonathan Massaquoi DE Troy Sun Belt from Baltimore [R5 - 13]
5 165 San Francisco 49ers Darius Fleming LB Notre Dame Ind.
5 166 Cincinnati Bengals Marvin Jones WR California Pac-12 from New England[R5 - 14]
5 167 Cincinnati Bengals George Iloka S Boise State MWC from New York Giants[R5 - 15]
5* 168 Oakland Raiders Juron Criner WR Arizona Pac-12
5* 169 Baltimore Ravens Asa Jackson CB Cal Poly Great West
5* 170 Indianapolis Colts Vick Ballard RB Mississippi State SEC
"coach 'em up"  
jbeintherockies : 11/18/2013 7:38 pm : link
I've attached the post-draft article from the giants website on the Robinson draft pick. It might be worth re-reading.

I've read somewhere, or maybe it was a video feed, Jerry Reese use the phrase "... coach 'em up". At times he probably looks for certain measurable attributes and puts the onus on the coaching staff to see what they can do with him.

The thing is, if the college player doesn't have any production, how do you know he has any chance of making it at the highest level? It is a gamble.
Link - ( New Window )
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