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The Guards Need to Play More Consistently

Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2013 6:06 pm
In re-watching the game, the play of the guards continues to frustrate me. There are times when they are very solid, but Diehl is obviously at the end. He just can't deal with quickness anymore. If he had to play tackle now, it would be a mess. Boothe has had a rough couple of games. Again, steady for the most part, but the mistakes are glaring when they occur (both as a pass and run blocker).

That all said, the Packers threw the kitchen sink at this line. Lots of blitzes...lots of stunts. And there were drives when the line blocked very well for the run and the pass.
Bingo  
Blue Blood : 11/18/2013 6:08 pm : link
Guard play is what is killing us on the OL and not giving Eli time...
this is the line for the rest of year  
Bradshaw #44 : 11/18/2013 6:09 pm : link
live and die with these two. Neither of them will be back next year in the starting line up. Its possible both return for vet minimums and play as back ups.
The interior O-Line must be addressed this offseason.  
Klaatu : 11/18/2013 6:11 pm : link
That should be Priority One. I don't think it takes a rocket surgeon to figure that out.
Eric  
robbieballs2003 : 11/18/2013 6:13 pm : link
that is going to be the game plan most of the time for teams. They are going to challenge our OL in many ways. The good news is that we should see a lot of single coverage in the secondary.
I wouldn't lump  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2013 6:14 pm : link
Cordle into that group...he's getting better.
Eric  
Jerry K : 11/18/2013 6:15 pm : link
Agreed. But did you notice Will Beatty being thrown to the ground by one of the Packers d-linemen on the Giants first play?
Diehl was the worst graded player  
BigBluePrestige : 11/18/2013 6:18 pm : link
on the Field last Sunday, and the one before that, and the one before that. You catch my drift. Barring injury, he's there for the remainder of the season. Boothe needs to step the fk up too.
Jerry  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2013 6:25 pm : link
I didn't see that. I will have to go back and watch.

Pugh/Diehl also continue to have some issues on stunts.

Don't want to make it sound like the OL was a disaster. It wasn't. But there were some issues.
Cordle  
AcidTest : 11/18/2013 6:29 pm : link
is getting better, but better compared to what?

Baas, Snee, and Diehl should be gone at the end of the season. I'd also get rid of Boothe and Cordle, but one probably stays. Cordle seems the most likely since his natural position is center, and he's younger. You pick, but if it's Cordle I certainly hope he isn't starting next year.

Resign Joseph and get a FA guard. That's how most of our money should be spent in the offseason. We will also need a veteran tackle, but that should be cheaper. As for the draft, i'd like a real mauler at guard. Gabe Jackson would be nice.

You then hope that at least one or two of Brewer, Mosley, Herman, and maybe Goodin can actually play or at least be decent backups.
..  
Named Later : 11/18/2013 6:33 pm : link
In the longer run, do you think maybe Boothe is better at off Center ?? Just in case there's an All-World Guard available in the early Rounds of the Draft.

Acid  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2013 6:34 pm : link
he's not playing as badly as some on BBI say he is. Joey talked about it too in his last game review.

Quote:

Offensive Line: Rough start for the rookie RT Justin Pugh, giving up an early sack on the Giants’ second possession, but Pugh steadied himself and helped pave the way for Andre Brown’s big day. LT Will Beatty gave up an early pressure as well, forcing a Manning underthrow, but like Pugh, he held his own the rest of the day. Despite three sacks, the OL played pretty well, paving the way for a big day on the ground but their blitz recognition was below average on all of the sacks, an unfortunate result of a unit that has not played long enough together. My hat goes off to Jim Cordle again, he’s not pancaking anyone, but he kept rhino-sized DT Pat Sims from getting in Eli’s face and helped lead the way to Andre Brown’s big day. Cordle is by far the player who has improved the most from his first game. He’s gone from liability to steady presence, and has been a pleasant surprise.


People have it in their head right now that Cordle sucks, but it's simply not the case in the last few games against some tough opponents. More of the problems have come from the guards.
It is what it is  
The Turk : 11/18/2013 6:42 pm : link
If Brewer (3 years), Mosely, Herman, Gooding etc. could play they would be playing. This team could have as many as 5 or 6 new players next year - I see only Pugh and Beatty as being definites next year. Brewer is a total bust if he can't get in the game after this time
Here's a list of FA OGs and OCs in 2014  
Klaatu : 11/18/2013 7:02 pm : link
OGs

OCs.

Optimus-NY's second favorite website is a great resource for keeping tabs on the FA market.
Would Brewer really be worse than Diehl right now?  
arcarsenal : 11/18/2013 7:12 pm : link
.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 11/18/2013 7:14 pm : link
I'm shocked that Diehl's play has been poor...
when do we start blaming the coaches?  
SHO'NUFF : 11/18/2013 7:22 pm : link
I'm starting to think BBI has overrated Pat Flaherty...the O-line has been going downhill since 2010 and nothing has been done to improve it, whether it being identifying the weakness of over-the-hill veterans or developing young talent. I know the radio and Sirius XM guys all say Flaherty is one of the best in the business, so I know it's not just BBI.
Mack and Goodwin  
old man : 11/18/2013 7:38 pm : link
are going to make big $$$; other than that, I don't there are any guards under 30 on that list, and none impress me, other than price.
Turk  
Bill in UT : 11/18/2013 7:45 pm : link
If none of those guys can play, some heads should roll.
Starting, but not ending, with theirs
Are there any rent-a-vet free agents out there ....  
Manny in CA : 11/18/2013 7:45 pm : link
Sitting on their couches ? Is the suffering (especially with Diehl) necessary.
Consistency?  
Bill in UT : 11/18/2013 7:47 pm : link
The only thing they can do consistently is play inconsistently. If they could play well all the time, they wouldn't be Diehl and Boothe
Still want J Asamoah  
sjh50 : 11/18/2013 7:56 pm : link
In free agency. Think he would go a long way to solidifying the line but probably will get paid big bucks.

How Diehl is continuing to hold his spot amazing  
BlueHurricane : 11/18/2013 8:23 pm : link
PFF grades him as one of the worst guards in the league and the eyeball test concurs.

Can Mosley or Brewer be that much worse? At least with those two there would be upside to look forward to.
BlueHurricane  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2013 8:25 pm : link
see my comments on Brewer in the other OL thread. He's getting his chances and messing up.

Coaches have said Mosley is basically a rookie because he missed all of last year. Flaherty commented on this over the bye.
Eric, I agree that the OGs are the achilles heels of this OL.  
yatqb : 11/18/2013 8:41 pm : link
DD is absolutely done, and Boothe's play has gone downhill significantly, which has really surprised me since I thought that he was underappreciated in the past.

I'd sign one big ticket OG this offseason and wouldn't be at all disappointed if we were to draft another in the 1st round. Let's reestablish the OL and running game as a strength of this team, and make Eli's life a lot easier.
Eric............ Read them  
BlueHurricane : 11/18/2013 8:44 pm : link
Brewer played pretty darn well in the first game as a guard (albeit LG). That is what I look at when comparing him to Diehl especially in the run game. Diehl gets physically abused too often. Brewer is more powerful and as you stated with Cordle would most likely improve with more play time as opposed to being beyond cooked as a started like Diehl is.

Having Brewer as a third TE basically is putting him out in space where the team already acknowledged is not his best spot.

RE: Mack and Goodwin  
Klaatu : 11/18/2013 8:49 pm : link
In comment 11345372 old man said:
Quote:
are going to make big $$$; other than that, I don't there are any guards under 30 on that list, and none impress me, other than price.


Asamoah's 25, Beadles is 27, as is Schwartz, Pollack is 29. I'd take any one of them over the guys we have at OG now.

As for OC, I think we're stuck with Baas for another year, but if we could, I'd bring in Brian de la Puente for a look.

We're going to have to pay somebody. Might as well pay for guys who can actually play.
Here's the latest list from Rotoworld ....  
Manny in CA : 11/18/2013 9:14 pm : link
You can't fix everything, all at once, but It would be a total shame to sacrifice an unprecedented run (which looks like it could happen) because you didn't try.

I'm guessing that probably the only reason Diehl is still around is that he calls calls all the signals (a very important job), but now he just can't do the physical stuff.

Da-One Brewer, I don't think it's going to happen for him. In some ways he reminds me of Guy Whimper, physically more than good enough, but a little slow up-stairs.
Sorry, I'm a little slow, myself tonight ....  
Manny in CA : 11/18/2013 9:16 pm : link
The link ...

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/44405/309/2013-nfl-free-agents
The game against the Lions  
Reb8thVA : 11/18/2013 9:19 pm : link
Scares me. I can see Suh and Farley dominating our interior OL and crushing Eli. I fear for his health.
Is the guard play struggling because of a crappy  
Tuckrule : 11/19/2013 9:47 am : link
Center. That might be the first place to look instead of calling out the guards. I viewed the game a second time around and cordle is either 3-5 yards deep in the backfield or on the floor. Hard to call out a position on the line when they are a unit. You can't have a D- center and expect boothe and Diehl to be great.
You don't say?  
drkenneth : 11/19/2013 9:49 am : link
...huh.
Bluehurrican  
Tuckrule : 11/19/2013 9:51 am : link
I forgot which poster it was because I want to give them the credit. They made a point that this team needed toughness and didn't have it early on in the season. You need toughness on the lines and overall our o line was soft. Diehl brings that tenacity and fight that you need. Seems Beason and will hill along with rolle bring that to the defensive side of the ball
Diehl has been very consistent  
dep026 : 11/19/2013 9:52 am : link
His play has sucked for 3 years running.
i would rather see mosley  
hitdog42 : 11/19/2013 9:56 am : link
in the jumbo package then brewer, who has looked awful.
there is a reason the "double barrel" blitz up the middle, caused so many issues for us, the guards are simply poor.
1 top tier guard and a TE that can block would turn the line into good from sub par, imo.
DD stinks and brings no toughness.  
bronxgiant : 11/19/2013 10:03 am : link
He sucks and gets beat on almost every play. Like we have seen DD have to get injured before Coach takes him out of there. We saw the same thing last year when he played RT. We will go another year of Brewer and Mosley standing on the sidelines. Let the youths get their feet wet.

Cordle was worse than Brewer ever was yet with playing time he is getting better. Why isn't the same principle applied to Mosley and Brewer. They will probably leave and become starters on another team. Watched the Eagles game last night and DD got pushed aside like a damn turnstile.
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