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How good was Jason Sehorn pre-injury?

CMicks3110 : 11/21/2013 9:46 pm
I've heard he had ungodly athleticism, but can someone describe just how talented he was?
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He had tremendous size for a CB  
oipolloi : 11/22/2013 3:26 am : link
6'2", 215 lbs and he ran a 4.37

He basically had the same athleticism as Michael Vick

He did not have the natural cover ability of, say, a Mark Collins or Revis. But his size and speed allowed him to match up with big receivers, such as Irvin and TO.

How "good" he was overall was always complicated by race since he was the only starting white CB in the league. His race led to hype both for him and against him. In retrospect, I would say if had not gotten injured he would have gone down as the best Giants DB of the last 40 years.
also, remember he was injured in only his third year as a starting CB  
oipolloi : 11/22/2013 3:33 am : link
and his injury was in preseason, so we really only got to see him for two years as a CB

he had an incredibly bad knee injury and was never quite the same when he came back

so, we really don't know how good he would have been. If I had to guess I would say a top 5 CB in the game but not one of the all-time greats
Wasn't  
mushroom : 11/22/2013 6:08 am : link
there a question where the coaching staff wanted him to play when he was drafted. I thought they tried him first out at safety and he struggled.
Athletic Ability off the charts.  
Randy in CT : 11/22/2013 6:41 am : link
I remember after coming back from his ACL seeing him at camp--he was built like a large LB. 240 ish.

Regarding that KO return--I think it was a great idea. You don't play scared and returners don't seem to be injured at a higher rate than other positions and breaking a return can be game-changing. And you don't play the game scared--or scared to play certain players for fear of injury.
I'll always have a soft spot  
newmike2 : 11/22/2013 6:52 am : link
for Fassel because he took the team to the SB but I'll never forgive him for putting Jason on returns. Biggest single mistake by any Giants HC I can remember and is up there with Parcells starting Brunner over Simms.
The thing I remember most about Sehorn,  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 11/22/2013 7:06 am : link
at training camp Fassal would have the entire team run gassers at the end of practice . Sehorn was out in front by 10 or 15 yards from start to finish.
as mushroom  
Matt in SGS : 11/22/2013 7:20 am : link
mentioned, I remember that when he first came to the Giants, the coaches looked at his size (and skin color) and assumed he should be a safety. They drafted Thomas Randolph as a speedy corner, also in the 2nd round of that draft, and later added Tito Wooten as a safety in the supplimental draft. Both Randolph and Wooten saw playing time before Sehorn, who finally started to get on the field in 1996.

Perhaps the only good thing about the 1996 Giants season, was we started to see that young defense start to gel, and Sehorn kept getting better and better. By 1997, he was looked at as kind of a freak for being not only a white corner, but one of the better corners in the game. He would make big plays (scored a TD on a pick in the clincher vs. the Redskins) and in the season finale at Dallas, he literally reduced Michael Irvin to tears as Irvin was so frustrated by how badly the Cowboys had fallen and Sehorn blanketed him that entire day. And he added another pick with a big run back against the Vikings in that God awful Wild Card loss.

When I think of Sehorn, you think of a guy who was on the cusp of being a super star, but that kickoff return against the Jets put an end to his rise. And then he became a BBI lightning rod with his workout decisions come 1999, as Fassel and many others felt he got too big/bulked up and never regained his quickness, even with the plays he made against Jacksonville (when you go back and see it, the Giants front protect line actually ran up at the Jags to engage them allowing Sehorn and easy path for a TD) and the Eagles pick 6.
Revis,as great as he may be, gets.....  
Crispino : 11/22/2013 7:39 am : link
away with interference more than any other corner I've ever seen.
Think he is being a bit overrated bymany here  
bc4life : 11/22/2013 8:03 am : link
He was extremely athletic and had a great, size speed ratio. He was tailor made to cover the wr emerging trend at the time - the Michel Irvin 6'2-6'4" 200 plus body type. Conversely, he struggled covering the smaller water bug type wrs - like a Cruz, or Santana Moss.

He was solid in run support however, Phillipi Sparks was better in ru support. Shut down corner? No. STC is an adjective too easily tossed around and few could live up to it - Deion and a handful of others.

I would consider him a B+ corner. Really high character guy.
I have noticed one instance of Revis getting away with calls.  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 11/22/2013 8:10 am : link
I don't watch much Jets but a game was on a couple years back and Revis broke up a pass and the announcers started praising him. They show the replay and he's all over the receiver early and the announcers even make a comment that since he is Revis when plays are close the refs give him the benefit of the doubt because he's that good. That never sat well with me.
My favorite Giants player while I was in high school.  
Curtis in VA : 11/22/2013 8:25 am : link
One of the best corners in the league before his injury. He was the real deal.
Safety size and CB speed  
njm : 11/22/2013 8:26 am : link
He wasn't the cover corner Deion Sanders was (nor Reavis), but his run support was at a whole different level. In today's game he would be incredibly valuable matched up against the large WRs with speed.
hereee's Angie  
gtt350 : 11/22/2013 8:39 am : link
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJmwASdf-BE - ( New Window )
One of the worst push-off  
mrvax : 11/22/2013 8:48 am : link
receivers that got away with it consistently was Michael Irvin. I loved it when Sehorn drove him to tears that day around 1997?

As others have said, Michael Vick like athletic skills. Coverage ability was outstanding those 2 short seasons but short of perfect. Had he not gotten injured, who knows.
If I recall he  
MotownGIANTS : 11/22/2013 9:10 am : link
bulk up to a bit to much in the upper body which was hurt his rehab and post injury ability....
Green definitely didn't lose speed with age  
Greg from LI : 11/22/2013 9:15 am : link
The combine didn't always use electonic timing, so it's hard to say. There are a bunch of crazy hand-timed 40s. Green said the fastest he ever was clocked at was a hand-timed 4.14, Deion's claimed something like 4:16, Bo Jax ran a hand-timed 4.12 at the 1985 combine which is supposed to be the fastest ever recorded by any method at the comine. Like I said, from what I could gather Deion's 1989 combine time is still the record with electonic timing. Going off of 100 times for players that ran track in college and the Olympics, we see...

Green: 10.08
Deion: 10.21
Bo: 10.39
Willie Gault: 10.10....in 2011, Gault ran a 10.88 at the age of 51.
Herschel: 10.22
Bullet Bob Hayes: 10.06, which was the world record at the time
Ron Brown: 10.01
James Trapp: 10.03
Usain Bolt 9.58 holy shit  
gtt350 : 11/22/2013 9:34 am : link
can he catch?
.  
arcarsenal : 11/22/2013 9:41 am : link
James Jett vs. Qadry Ismail sprint from years ago was hilarious.. Ismail was a pretty fast guy and Jett made him look like a lineman. I can't find the link anymore though.

"wasn't a Patrick Peterson level prospect"  
KWALL : 11/22/2013 9:53 am : link
What does that even mean? Athletically Peterson has nothing on him.

It wasn't just the measurables. He was super smooth on the field. There are some guys who explode off the floor and he was one of them and he was a very big CB too.

His peak was very short but Sehorn was putting it all together. I agree he was no Revis because Revis dominated for a long time, avoided injuries, and really mastered the craft of playing CB (the contact he gets away with is a big part of it. It's a skill. Not a knock).

However, during Sehorn's peak he was one of the best defenders in the NFL. Saying he was nothing more than the 4th best player on the D is wrong. He was an impact defender and could eliminate the best WR on the other team.
Forgot about James Jett  
Greg from LI : 11/22/2013 9:57 am : link
His best 100 time was 10.10.
MOM  
KWALL : 11/22/2013 9:58 am : link
You are wrong about Sehorns movement skills, COD, agility, and quickness.

He could have been an NFL WR too. No doubt about it.
this is oddly addicting  
Greg from LI : 11/22/2013 10:11 am : link
Rod Woodson: 10.26, although the hurdles was his main event in track as he was the NCAA record holder in 60 meter hurdles at the time.
Chris Johnson: 10.38
OJ Simpson ran a 9.4 100 yard dash. They didn't run meters in the NCAA back then. The 1967 USC 4x100 team, which he was on, set the world record at the time.


Green was billed as the fastest CB, but i doubt he could've  
Geeman : 11/22/2013 11:28 am : link
outran Deion. It would've been a great race and whoever would've won it would've been by a millisecond either way.
Deion is the greatest CB I've ever seen, period. Was he much of a tackler?...no...however there's never been a better cover corner. I never seen a CB who was avoided by CBs and OCs as much as he was. He too was a freak athelete.
This takes nothing away from sehorn who was very talented as well. Also Revis pre injury is the best CB of this generation and is probably top 5 of all time. To shutdown CBs in this era is an incredible feat.
RE: Green ran a 4.2 when he was 40 years old.  
Cam in MO : 11/22/2013 12:06 pm : link
In comment 11351855 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
.



Green was 72 when he ran that 4.2. He always lied about his age.



JS  
AnishPatel : 11/22/2013 12:17 pm : link
was one of my favorite players. Great speed, athletic ability, technique and very good hands. He was the anti Will Allen. Will Allen would get beat up by the ball, and it he had stone hands. JS was amazing. A great player pre injury.

One could say since JS retired, we haven't had a CB close to JS's ability.
Tragedy  
Peter from CT : 11/22/2013 12:21 pm : link
The guy was a great athlete. Would have been a legendary Giant had he not gotten hurt.
I know what Matt is saying about Revis  
SHO'NUFF : 11/22/2013 12:31 pm : link
the last time we played him, he was holding Nicks the whole game and even caused an INT. I couldn't believe he got away with that shit...
.  
arcarsenal : 11/22/2013 12:31 pm : link
Crazy that at one point, the Redskins had Deion, Darrell Green AND Champ Bailey. 3 top CB's of all time.

Only for 1 year, though (2000) and Green and Sanders were both at the end of the road by then.

The camp battles between Sehorn  
GMANinDC : 11/22/2013 12:38 pm : link
and Thomas Randolph were epic. Didn't it take Sehorn 2 years to finally beat Randolph out..
I went to several games in 97  
mfsd : 11/22/2013 12:39 pm : link
and my memory is the Giants have never had someone fly across a football field like Sehorn did that year. He was a great CB

And the tragedy is, he was really just entering his prime at that point. And he was still pretty damn good post-injury (2000 season for example)

The Revis comparison is tough - I would say maybe Sehorn could have been better, if he had a few more years of his prime without the injury to play and develop
KWALL  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/22/2013 1:57 pm : link
I think its a joke to compare him and PP athletically. A bigger joke that people are throwing around names like Revis and Darrell Green for a guy who had a good season on a stacked defense. If there was a pro football focus in those days, im not sure Phillipi Sparks coverage numbers wouldn';t have been better than Sehorns in 96 and 97

He was a good player but this thread like all sehorn threads is way over the top

Jason Sehorns one excellent year  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/22/2013 1:59 pm : link
doesn't even match up with Antonio Cromarties peak season. Let alone comparing it to some of the guys on this thread
Cwebb in 08  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/22/2013 2:27 pm : link
Had a better year than Sehorn ever did. Gave up 1 TD all season, only allowed 300 or so yards receiving. He wasn't the athlete Sehorn was, but at his peak was a better cover guy

Hell Terrell Thomas in 09 on a defense with an abysmal front 7 and deplorable safety play, didn;t allow a TD all season until the Panther game in week 16

Id rank both of those seasons as being more impressive than Sehorns best
Will Allen could cover the hell  
Randy in CT : 11/22/2013 2:56 pm : link
out of his guy and yet somehow the ball squeaked in for a reception every time!
I don't think it's a joke to compare Peterson and Sehorn as athletes  
Greg from LI : 11/22/2013 2:57 pm : link
Sehorn really was a phenomenal, freakish athlete. He was a huge corner with great speed and tremendous coordination. I wouldn't compare them as football players, though, because Peterson is simply the better cornerback.

IIRC, Sehorn didn't start playing football until his senior year of high school, which could account for the fact that he was never a very instinctive player despite his prodigious physical gifts.
I liked Allen  
pjcas18 : 11/22/2013 2:58 pm : link
but agree with Randy, plus he had feet for hands. at least once a game it seemed those witty announcers would say CB's are WR's who can't catch after a Will Allen drop.
re.  
Rob_MTL : 11/22/2013 2:58 pm : link
Revis was overhyped by that fat fuck of a jets coach. Best defensive playet in the league ... Bullshit. Typical ryan hype, it gave himself and his defense clout.

Seahorn could do anything Revis could.

I would take Seahorn over Revis.
Randy  
MarshallOnMontana : 11/22/2013 2:58 pm : link
Id go as far as to say he is the most underrated Giant of all time here. I remember he once had a stretch of 3 consecutive games without allowing a catch. People remember him more for what he wasn't (a ballhawk) than what he was (a terrific cover guy and very good tackler)
heh  
Greg from LI : 11/22/2013 2:59 pm : link
Yeah, Will Allen would definitely lead the league in the mythical category of "receptions allowed despite terrific coverage". He had just about the worst balls skills you'll ever see, which is a shame because he really was excellent in coverage. He should have been much better than he was.
I thought the two Will's  
pjcas18 : 11/22/2013 3:02 pm : link
would be fixtures at CB for a long time.

It's a shame for Peterson/James injury.

Same with Gibril Wilson, great start to his carer, but potential greatness derailed by injury.

he (Gibril) hit like a truck as a rookie, and Peterson was very physical too.
Conrad Hamilton too  
Greg from LI : 11/22/2013 3:05 pm : link
He was tough as nails, a very good young cornerback who was a late-round gem. One knee injury, and poof! it's all over.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/22/2013 3:05 pm : link
I loved Will Peterson. I thought he was just as good as Allen was (or could have been) but he just couldn't stay healthy and it just caught up to him before he ever really hit a full stride. Never played 2 full seasons in a row.
Revis did get away with holding  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/22/2013 3:27 pm : link
but he's still the best cover corner I've ever seen. There were others like Deion who were much bigger playmakers, but as far as taking your man out of the game I've never seen someone as successful as Revis.

The fact that Charles Woodson won the DPOY over Revis as a CB that year was an absolute joke. Woodson is a future HOF who was a more versatile player than Revis, but anyone who thinks he had a better year than Revis that season is a fool imo. I was shocked that Revis had that DPOY stolen from him.
MOM  
KWALL : 11/22/2013 3:40 pm : link
Sehorn could run and jump with anybody including the smaller Peterson. He wasn't just a track guy playing football. He was outstanding in several sports and he could play several positions on a football field.

It's too bad he got started late at CB and got hurt. But his peak was outstanding and the way you're dismissing it is really the big joke here.

I think Antonio Cromartie is the best Sehorn comp  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/22/2013 3:44 pm : link
on this thread.
OJ Simpson the football player  
nomad1986 : 11/22/2013 3:56 pm : link
was crazy good. Like top 5 NFL players of all time good. He played in Buffalo on a lot of bad teams. If OJ played on Eric Dickerson's home fields he would have put up numbers that would never be broken in 14 game seasons.
Tremendous pure athlete  
JonC : 11/22/2013 4:49 pm : link
But, he wasn't incredibly football instinctive, probably because he didn't play until late in high school. He did polish up the instincts and the skillset after a few NFL seasons, and was a defender on the ascent when he tore up his knee (F U, Jim). He had the ability to shut down his side of the field, which itself is rare in the NFL.

His potential ceiling appeared very high, which is why I think fans tend to overrate him now relative to his actual
achievements on the field.

Smooth athlete, looked and moved like a 180-lb man at 6'2 215. He came back post-ACL (after training intensely with the often mis-focused Marv Marinovich) at 228 lbs but was too bulky and slowed down. Took him a bit to lose the unneeded mass and begin to return to form, but he wasn't the same after the knee.

He definitely had troubles with smaller shifty players.

His wife is probably the nicest, friendly celebrity I've ever met. And stunning, of course.
In a foot race  
JonC : 11/22/2013 4:52 pm : link
I'd pick Green over Deion, he was lightning and he had the superior 100M time iirc, which is a better indicator of speed than 40 yards.
Johnc  
Rob_MTL : 11/22/2013 5:58 pm : link
Quote:
But, he wasn't incredibly football instinctive, probably because he didn't play until late in high school.
This is false.

You cannot separate the two. Seahorn was an EXCELLENT football player (thus had excellent football instincts.)
What I remember about Sehorn...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 11/22/2013 6:09 pm : link
great athlete as many mentioned. When he first came to the Giants/NFL, he had a hard time learning the system. He got caught out of position a lot. Once he learned the game he was excellent. Hist ball skills were superior. Tackling was average.

Once he was blitzing from the corner position. He got as far as the left tackle and the QB had already released the ball. sehorn jumped what looked to be 12 feet in the air. From my vantage point, it looked like his knees were about even with the linemen. It looked fake. Like he was pulled up on a wire.
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